Most concise and easy to read 9-11 debunking I've seen [Archive]

rhizome17

09-06-2004, 08:00:AM

Originally posted by Elder
Oh, does that come from the "study" as well.

Hell no, this info has been around for ages. I am surprised you haven't come across it in your own travels around the web. Believe me, this isn't new information. Even the bbc carried a story about conflicting information regarding the flight attendants phonecall of the seats where they were sitting, and that privided by the FBI.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/1556096.stm

Rense has had it for ages

http://www.rense.com/general15/perplexingpuzzle.htm

What Really Happened also has had it for ages

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/hijackers.html

More skeptics here

http://home.pacbell.net/skeptica/9-11list.html

Say whatever you like about the sites themselves, I don't really care. But the point is, questions over the 'official' passenger list provided by the FBI and conflicting information has been around for a couple of years now.

Elder

09-06-2004, 08:07:AM

Originally posted by rhizome17
Hell no, this info has been around for ages. I am surprised you haven't come across it in your own travels around the web. Believe me, this isn't new information. Even the bbc carried a story about conflicting information regarding the flight attendants phonecall of the seats where they were sitting, and that privided by the FBI.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/1556096.stm

Rense has had it for ages

http://www.rense.com/general15/perplexingpuzzle.htm

What Really Happened also has had it for ages

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/hijackers.html

More skeptics here

http://home.pacbell.net/skeptica/9-11list.html

Say whatever you like about the sites themselves, I don't really care. But the point is, questions over the 'official' passenger list provided by the FBI and conflicting information has been around for a couple of years now.

Hmmm.. I never did run across it. So thanks for the links. I just read the BBC link because that is one I could take truthfully. But at the very end of the article it says that the hijiackers weren't in the right seats or something...

The plane wasn't full, so could they have just switched seats? It's not hard, I do it all the time on empty planes.

Anyway, I will have to read through these later. I am writing a paper on Management... boring. This is more fu.

rhizome17

09-06-2004, 08:13:AM

Not to say there isn't conflicting information suggesting their names WERE on the passenger list.

http://www.liberalconspiracy.com/911FAQ.htm

(scroll down)

But anyway, it is one piece of information that should be alot clearer than it actually is. SOmething as sytraightforward as passenger lists and names shouldn't be so open to contestation.

Glorious

09-06-2004, 09:57:AM

every nazi lives in Argentina! :D :p

it is a safe house down south :p

Hristos

09-06-2004, 10:52:AM

I was watching The Fifth Estate on CBC Newsworld tonight and they had a special covering all these conspiracy theories...

Here's some important facts that are curious. These are from the show. Interpret them however you wish:

1. When George W. Bush set up his own oil company (outside the ones his dad owned) he was assisted by the Bin Laden family. They also were given the contract for the reconstruction of an American military barracks that was destroyed by terrorists. Bin laden's family and the Bush's apparently have a very long business relation.

2. On September 11, 2001 George Bush Sr and Osama bin Ladens brother were meeting in a Washington Hotel...

3. 3 days after September 11, while flights were still not allowed to leave US airports, several planes full of bin Ladens family members were given special clearance to leave.

4. George Bush said in a video clip that he saw the first plane hit the World Trade Centre "of course, the TV was on" he says. But the footage of the first plane hitting wasnt on TV until the next day. As well, when it first happened, we were told by the government that Bush heard about the second plane when he was inside the classroom. Seems like a tangled web of lies.

Now discuss.

Nimreitz

09-06-2004, 11:25:AM

The strangest bit of info for me is that the building fell down in a hurry, pretty close to the speed of a regular falling object. If the top really did crash through the bottom, then it would have had to completely break the steel in every floor below it, which would have taken an awfully long time.

I also think it's curious that the burning temperature of airline fuel isn't hot enough to melt steel and the fact that the fires started to go out before the buildings collapsed.

pennington10

09-06-2004, 11:37:AM

I think you also forgot the theory that people saw George W. Bush, Osama Bin Laden and Saddam Hussein all holding hands taking a walk on the beach and then having a romantic dinner at Burger King on September 10th.

The fact remains it is impossible to do something on this level with so many people invovled for one simple reason. 1 out of every 2 Americans is willing to sell out any other person in order to make a buck. If it was all set up by the government then sometime in the past two years someone invovled would of came out and said something in order to make money.

Elder

09-06-2004, 11:48:AM

Originally posted by Nimreitz
The strangest bit of info for me is that the building fell down in a hurry, pretty close to the speed of a regular falling object. If the top really did crash through the bottom, then it would have had to completely break the steel in every floor below it, which would have taken an awfully long time.

I also think it's curious that the burning temperature of airline fuel isn't hot enough to melt steel and the fact that the fires started to go out before the buildings collapsed.

There are tons of explanations by engineers and the like about how and why the buildings fell the way they did. I don't know what the truth is, but it sounded good.

Air fuel burns hot and fast... and from what I have heard, the heat that was in the buildings was enough to melt the steel. The fires were actually going for many weeks if I am not mistaken after the buildings fell. Maybe months.. .

rhizome17

09-06-2004, 11:49:AM

Originally posted by pennington10
I think you also forgot the theory that people saw George W. Bush, Osama Bin Laden and Saddam Hussein all holding hands taking a walk on the beach and then having a romantic dinner at Burger King on September 10th.

Saddam Hussein never had anything to do with September 11.

Anyway, one must ask the question - why were the Bin Laden family flown out.

Elder

09-06-2004, 11:51:AM

Originally posted by pennington10
I think you also forgot the theory that people saw George W. Bush, Osama Bin Laden and Saddam Hussein all holding hands taking a walk on the beach and then having a romantic dinner at Burger King on September 10th.

The fact remains it is impossible to do something on this level with so many people invovled for one simple reason. 1 out of every 2 Americans is willing to sell out any other person in order to make a buck. If it was all set up by the government then sometime in the past two years someone invovled would of came out and said something in order to make money.

I think the biggest truth of all is this. The FBI and CIA had some of these people tagged... but these pesky little things called "racial profiling" and "political correctness" stopped them from doing anything about it.

There was a whistleblower... another interesting conspiracy theory though is the allegations that Iraqi's helped Tim McVeigh bomb the Oklahama City building. There is tons of info on that too, but it never gets press.

Elder

09-06-2004, 11:52:AM

Originally posted by rhizome17
Saddam Hussein never had anything to do with September 11.

Anyway, one must ask the question - why were the Bin Laden family flown out.

If it's true, I would have to say "safety" concerns. Bin Ladens family is huge isn't it? One bad apple doesn't taint the whole bunch you know...

pennington10

09-06-2004, 11:57:AM

Originally posted by rhizome17
Anyway, one must ask the question - why were the Bin Laden family flown out.

Probably because most Americans were ready to lynch anyone who they thought had anything to do with the attacks. Some nut job would have taken his own form of justice on these people just because they had the last name of Bin Laden.

Nimreitz

09-06-2004, 12:06:PM

I actually agree with Bush flying the bin Ladens out of the country. Their safety was probably in danger.

And Elder, no there aren't explanations of how a building can fall at a rate very comparable with little resitance when the top would have had to completely crush all of the resistance of a very well build skyscraper on all the floors below. I'm not drawing any conclusions about who's behind it all, in fact I told LaBrujita privately that I think the author feels that the connection between whatever happened on 9/11 (and I don't think it's as simple as we all think) and the Bush Administration is implied. I don't think so. And when you think about the cost benefit analysis of the whole thing, I don't think Bush or the Administration would have done such a thing. At the most what do they gain? A war in Iraq? 4 more years? It doesn't make sense to kill 3000 Americans for 4 more years.

The more I read, the more I think an organiation called FEMA may have been very involved.

Elder

09-06-2004, 12:22:PM

Originally posted by Nimreitz
I actually agree with Bush flying the bin Ladens out of the country. Their safety was probably in danger.

And Elder, no there aren't explanations of how a building can fall at a rate very comparable with little resitance when the top would have had to completely crush all of the resistance of a very well build skyscraper on all the floors below. I'm not drawing any conclusions about who's behind it all, in fact I told LaBrujita privately that I think the author feels that the connection between whatever happened on 9/11 (and I don't think it's as simple as we all think) and the Bush Administration is implied. I don't think so. And when you think about the cost benefit analysis of the whole thing, I don't think Bush or the Administration would have done such a thing. At the most what do they gain? A war in Iraq? 4 more years? It doesn't make sense to kill 3000 Americans for 4 more years.

The more I read, the more I think an organiation called FEMA may have been very involved.

Well, like I said, I don't know how buildings fall and don't fall. All I do know is that they fell. Were they even built to withstand an airplane hitting them? I can't remember.

But you are right, there was no way that Bush would have let something like that happen. It just doesnt' make sense. Billions upon billions of dollars, lost life, etc etc wwas not enough. If Bush is such an evil bastard like everyone thinks, he could have gone to war with any country even without 9-11.

4 more years are never guaranteed, war with Iraq was a huge gamble politically anyway... they just don't gain anything.

rhizome17

09-06-2004, 12:45:PM

No way is Bush behind it. The only thing he is 'behind' is in school. He wasn't chosen for president cos he was smart, was he. ANd it would take someone very smart to plan 9/11.

monkee

09-06-2004, 03:45:PM

He raises some valid points but I'm sceptical on some of his arguments.

The towers fell as if in free fall? I don't know. I'm not an expert on such matters and I didn't see it as they were shrouded in dust and debris from what I recall.

As for his argument about vapourisation of things, this is one which I'm a bit sceptical about. Whilst I find it hard to believe that the aircraft would vapourise it's his arguments about the temperatures required to cause the towers to collapse that raise my doubts. Now I did a little bit of reading on the kerosene used in aircraft and from what I gathered it's the vapors of kerosene that burn and not the liquid itself therefore the liquid could spread itself out.

As for the temperature. If you're in a controlled environment, or outdoors where the temperature could disperse, you could say that the temperature in the room couldn't possibly have exceeded the level required to soften (not melt, but soften) the steel supports of the Twin Towers because it couldn't have exceeded the temperature of the burning kerosene. However in a confined environment wouldn't the temperature in the room exceed the temperature of the fuel? Is that not what happens with the greenhouse effect? Isn't it why Venus is hotter than Mercury? The heat released by the burning kerosene would have had difficulty escaping from the building raising the overall temperature and possibly - I'm not saying it did because I'm not an expert on these matters but I would hazard that neither is the article writer - but it then could possibly have exceeded the temperature required to soften the steel supports of the building enough to have lead to the collapse?

Besides the temperature that the steel floor supports could withstand is 800oC and not closer to the 2000oC that the article writer seemed to be trying to suggest.

The article did raise some questions though. Where were the remains of the planes? What about the hijackers not appearing on the passenger lists? etc. I don't know much about these claims mind. I can't recall if they pulled a plane's wreckage from the Pentagon, so I'd have to take it on his say. I can't do that unless he backs it up with his sources.

rhizome17

09-06-2004, 05:00:PM

Originally posted by monkee
Where were the remains of the planes?

All wreckage was removed by Israeli owned companies, much of it being shipped to India as scrap.

Oh, and about the Bin Laden family. Are people saying that they couldn't have been 'protected' until planes were allowed to fly normally again? Is the CIA/ FBI/ whatever department really that bad at security? I mean, who takes care of the president? Why couldn't they be responsible for the Bin Laden family for a couple of days? I don't buy the argument that their safety was in question. If the president can be protected, so can they.

PhiLLer

09-06-2004, 05:04:PM

I read most of the articles on that page for about 2 hours straight and I have to say it was an extremely interesting read however you always have to take such things with a pinch of salt because a skilled writer can convince you of anything.

Having said that there certainly is something fishy about 9/11, there are certain facts and figures that simply don't add up and even though I'm pretty sure Bush didn't have anything to do with it could still have been the job (or with the help of) some sort of agency or company.

First of all, the passport that was found belonging to Mohammed Atta, apparently the leader of the hijackers. This simply doesn't add up. It was found in the smouldering ashes of the WTC towers, now you can't tell me that two planes crash into the building which is reduced to absolutely nothing of which there is no trace yet a passport which is made of paper (which I imagine would burn just a little quicker than metal...?) is found and still in enough of a state to be indentified as the passport of Mohammed Atta.
Unbelievable.

Second point has to be the airplanes, what happened to them? No matter how hot the fire did (or did not) burn an airplane can not simple disapear into thin air, there would have been some parts of the airplane found. What makes it even more strange is that fact that even at the Pentagon there was no plane to be found and from seeing the pictures the scene does seem rather less messed up than what it would have looked like if I plane would've crashed into it.
I mean, three planes crashed into buildings and not a single piece of either one of these planes is recovered?
Unbelievable.

Third point is the way the towers collapsed. I'm obviously not an expert in demolition or know the exact way a building should or should not fall in such a circumstance but the fact of the matter remains that it feel very quick. If the top floor really collapsed onto the bottom floor creating a squashing effect (which the goverment claims is what happened) then surely it would not have collapsed so quickly. The top floor would've hit the lowe floors which would take a while to break under the weight and pressure of the floors above and then collapse repeating the same process for any of the floor below.
The theory of the author claimimg that explosives were placed into the building after the attacks some 10 years earlier and that it was decided to perform the controlled explosion in order to saves lifes by the towers not falling in a controlled manner does sound very reasonable.
Moreover the towers were both designed to withstand any serious fire and a stray boeing 747 (which is similar to a 767 which hit the building) yet both towers did anything but do that.

Also if you think about it, the planes didn't hit the towers exactly in the middle, especially the second (?) one hit the tower on the side. This, in theory, would mean that the side that was hit would be weakened first and therefor collapse first resulting in a real collapse and not a controlled downward collapse which is what we saw.

No doubt about it that there is a lot of things that simply don't add up there is more to it than the goverment knows. I do find the theory of the goverment masterminding this whole operation just a little too far fetched I do believe they were involved in some sort of "supporting" role, this has all the marks of this being the case with certain individuals being very secretive about things, facts and figures not adding up, certain crucial bits of evidence missing or not being published etc.

An the raising of the flag by the firefighters was defenitely staged, it was so obvious...though obviously nothing to conspire against here, just thought I'd point that out.

PhiLLer

09-06-2004, 05:08:PM

Originally posted by rhizome17
All wreckage was removed by Israeli owned companies, much of it being shipped to India as scrap.

So they claim.
But if that is the case they certainly where very quick because there is not one picture or one bit of video footage showing any parts of an airplane or any parts of an airplane being taken away.

rhizome17

09-06-2004, 05:13:PM

Originally posted by PhiLLer
So they claim.
But if that is the case they certainly where very quick because there is not one picture or one bit of video footage showing any parts of an airplane or any parts of an airplane being taken away.

Yeah, I was referring to the wreckage in general... so whether there is anything of the planes or not, who knows.

LaBrujita

10-06-2004, 08:07:AM

Originally posted by Nimreitz
And when you think about the cost benefit analysis of the whole thing, I don't think Bush or the Administration would have done such a thing. At the most what do they gain? A war in Iraq? 4 more years? It doesn't make sense to kill 3000 Americans for 4 more years.

An excuse to knowingly dominate the world with their military.

To build a legacy, and Empire. It's not 4 more years, it's "forever". The Greeks. The Romans. The English. Hitler. USAmerica.

To make life like the movies, creating and then fighting "evil-doers".

Whatever happened to Oil conspiracies -- the middle east, y'know?

I am excited to see what approach Farenheit 911 will take on all of this.

Gerrard 17

10-06-2004, 08:34:AM

Originally posted by Nimreitz
The more I read, the more I think an organiation called FEMA may have been very involved.

In what way? Can you elaborate on that?

Hristos

10-06-2004, 09:10:AM

Nobody seemed to respond to the parts of my post about Bush Sr and bin Ladens brother having a meeting the day of september 11, 2001, in a washington hotel before the attacks happened. I find that very curious.

And as well, the part about Bush's different stories on what he saw.

Gerrard 17

10-06-2004, 09:30:AM

Originally posted by Hristos
And as well, the part about Bush's different stories on what he saw.

http://www.serendipity.li/wot/bushflub.htm

i read it the other day... worth the time.

Moron

10-06-2004, 12:12:PM

Originally posted by Hristos
Nobody seemed to respond to the parts of my post about Bush Sr and bin Ladens brother having a meeting the day of september 11, 2001, in a washington hotel before the attacks happened. I find that very curious.

And as well, the part about Bush's different stories on what he saw.

yea i saw the footage when he "mis-spoke" about watching the first plane getting hit that day.

I think it was pretty dumb, although Bush has a reputation of "mis-spoking" such statements, but who knows.

Yea I've seen those sites before, and its pretty interesting, although i have so many doubts. It would be hard to believe it, even though i have my leftist stance, its still pretty hard to believe, although it wouldn't suprise if it was true.

zul-aid

10-06-2004, 10:40:PM

I will stick by my theory that Bush Jnr killed Kennedy Jr for President.

nickclubman

11-06-2004, 01:39:AM

Originally posted by Elder
The thing that "shoots" out is just the contact that planes makes with the outside of the building. In fact, if you look closely enough, you will notice the thing doesn't "shoot" out until after the plane has already entered the building.

There is nothing there.

Yes, the plane is turning and the nose of the plane hits the building first...

NK.

Pontiakos

11-06-2004, 01:43:AM

posted by: Elder
But you are right, there was no way that Bush would have let something like that happen. It just doesnt' make sense. Billions upon billions of dollars, lost life, etc etc wwas not enough. If Bush is such an evil bastard like everyone thinks, he could have gone to war with any country even without 9-11

if a country goes to war in this day and age without cause...the rest will have to take a position on the issue.

pennington10

11-06-2004, 02:00:AM

Originally posted by LaBrujita
An excuse to knowingly dominate the world with their military.

To build a legacy, and Empire. It's not 4 more years, it's "forever". The Greeks. The Romans. The English. Hitler. USAmerica.

To make life like the movies, creating and then fighting "evil-doers".

Whatever happened to Oil conspiracies -- the middle east, y'know?

I am excited to see what approach Farenheit 911 will take on all of this.

Are you kidding? That is complete rubbish. Why don't you go back to writing your stories on how Bigfoot married Elvis or whatever non-sense you happen to think goes on in the world.

Oh I can tell you what Michael Moore's take on anything will be. It is always pro-food, anti-diet. Always.

kickin_kyle

11-06-2004, 04:18:AM

some of you just cant accept the truth:

Originally posted by Elder
Muslim terrorist bastards flew the planes into the buildings for Allah. There was no damn plot. Just stupid people who couldn't put 1 and 1 together to stop the thing.

right Bush planned the whole thing. its all some sceme to get more oil :rolleyes:

rhizome17

11-06-2004, 04:22:AM

Originally posted by kickin_kyle
right Bush planned the whole thing. its all some sceme to get more oil :rolleyes:

CAN........YOU.........NOT..........READ......?

Elder

11-06-2004, 04:25:AM

Originally posted by kickin_kyle
some of you just cant accept the truth:

right Bush planned the whole thing. its all some sceme to get more oil :rolleyes:

huh? I don't get it. All I know is that people in the FBI and CIA had a chance to bust the thing, but didn't act on it for fear of being called "Racist" or whatever.

Nimreitz

11-06-2004, 05:05:AM

Originally posted by Gerrard 17
In what way? Can you elaborate on that?

Well, they are the Federal Emergency Management Agency (or something like that) and basically they are one of the only federally funded agencies that don't have to disclose what they use their budget on. They were audited by Congress awhile back and apparantly they use only about 6% of their funding on actual disaster relief (these are the people who should be helping out victims of floods, hurricanes, etc.) and the bulk of what they spend has been on secret underground lairs in case of nuclear war. If a major disaster were to occur, because of a series of Executive Orders, they have the power to take the nation into Martial Law, where the Constitution wouldn't mean anything. You can be imprisoned for speaking out, etc. Well, it also happens that the executive orders never established how we could actually get back into normal constitutional government once martial law began, so we could theoretically be stuck in a FEMA led Police State forever as the result of a major disaster (like a nuclear war or something like that). Now I have no idea what happened on 9/11 or why it happened how it did, BUT I'm just saying it could have been an attempt by some high ranking officials within FEMA to plunge us into martial law.

Conspiracy Theory yes, but is there a 1% chance that it could be true? I think so. Especially since they have the luxury of not having to really report to anyone.

LaBrujita

11-06-2004, 05:16:AM

Where is Osama Bin Laden, now?

Nimreitz

11-06-2004, 05:17:AM

Where I'd be if the US Government was after me. Hiding.

rhizome17

11-06-2004, 06:49:AM

Originally posted by LaBrujita
Where is Osama Bin Laden, now?

In his deep lair, rubbing his hands together, plotting his next move alongside the evil scientists and his hunchbacked sidekick and his thuggish henchmen. All in the fine tradition of the James Bond movie. There is a deep dungeon in the mountains of Afghanistan, accessible only by foot or helicopter, where he is about to put his plan of world domination into effect, quite possibly a death ray or laser of some sort. But we just don't know.Reconaissance photographs suggest that the top of the mountain can open up, and the ray/laser rises out of the mountain to a height that allows for the precise directing of the laser to a specially positioned mirror in outer space (possible the russians have covertly assisted in this, or even FEMA) that will send the laser towards the whitehouse, then reposition to take out disneyland, microsoft, cocacola and Macdonalds headquarters. With nothing left to drink, eat or play, and noone to lead them, America will descend into a state of anarchy.

And only the X-men will be able to stop him this time, but only if the Bush administration grants them equal rights. :kader:

LaBrujita

11-06-2004, 11:08:PM

Originally posted by rhizome17
In his deep lair, rubbing his hands together, plotting his next move alongside the evil scientists and his hunchbacked sidekick and his thuggish henchmen. All in the fine tradition of the James Bond movie. There is a deep dungeon in the mountains of Afghanistan, accessible only by foot or helicopter, where he is about to put his plan of world domination into effect, quite possibly a death ray or laser of some sort. But we just don't know.Reconaissance photographs suggest that the top of the mountain can open up, and the ray/laser rises out of the mountain to a height that allows for the precise directing of the laser to a specially positioned mirror in outer space (possible the russians have covertly assisted in this, or even FEMA) that will send the laser towards the whitehouse, then reposition to take out disneyland, microsoft, cocacola and Macdonalds headquarters. With nothing left to drink, eat or play, and noone to lead them, America will descend into a state of anarchy.

And only the X-men will be able to stop him this time, but only if the Bush administration grants them equal rights. :kader:
Aaron, my man, you had me laughing out loud.

But, in all honesty, I thought America wasn't going to stop until that evil-doer was put to justice?
What happened to that plan?

I'm pretty sure Osama was disguised as Goofy when I was in DisneyWorld (against my will) the other week. Those bastards even gave him a job:kader: .

"They hate our freedoms."
Right. :rolleyes:

Perles

11-06-2004, 11:26:PM

Originally posted by rhizome17
In his deep lair, rubbing his hands together, plotting his next move alongside the evil scientists and his hunchbacked sidekick and his thuggish henchmen. All in the fine tradition of the James Bond movie. There is a deep dungeon in the mountains of Afghanistan, accessible only by foot or helicopter, where he is about to put his plan of world domination into effect, quite possibly a death ray or laser of some sort. But we just don't know.Reconaissance photographs suggest that the top of the mountain can open up, and the ray/laser rises out of the mountain to a height that allows for the precise directing of the laser to a specially positioned mirror in outer space (possible the russians have covertly assisted in this, or even FEMA) that will send the laser towards the whitehouse, then reposition to take out disneyland, microsoft, cocacola and Macdonalds headquarters. With nothing left to drink, eat or play, and noone to lead them, America will descend into a state of anarchy.

And only the X-men will be able to stop him this time, but only if the Bush administration grants them equal rights. :kader:

oh **************** I work next door to the McDonald's headquarters

PhiLLer

12-06-2004, 12:54:AM

Originally posted by Perles
oh **************** I work next door to the McDonald's headquarters

"I love the smell of burgers, chips and oil in the morning"

:p

USA Supporter

12-06-2004, 08:39:AM

Originally posted by LaBrujita
Aaron, my man, you had me laughing out loud.

But, in all honesty, I thought America wasn't going to stop until that evil-doer was put to justice?
What happened to that plan?

I'm pretty sure Osama was disguised as Goofy when I was in DisneyWorld (against my will) the other week. Those bastards even gave him a job:kader: .

"They hate our freedoms."
Right. :rolleyes:

Yeah, because, as we all know, OBL believes in freedom of speech, freedom of religion, etc.:rolleyes:

Seriously, some of you people are ridiculous. You will stop at nothing to bash the USA. You people probably think OBL is a good person who believes in peace and freedom and has done nothing wrong in life, and isn't involved in terrorism in any way. :rolleyes:

JTNY

12-06-2004, 08:54:AM

Originally posted by Rob
They are in Argentina. Like when Hitler "killed" himself, no he just spent the last 30years of his life down south.

Think its non sense? It was in the Simpsons. :rolleyes:

Yeah it was. Many of the Nazis did that. Eichmann, before the Israel secret police captured him was working for Mercedes in Argentina, and living in the sticks.

rhizome17

12-06-2004, 09:12:AM

Originally posted by USA Supporter
Seriously, some of you people are ridiculous. You will stop at nothing to bash the USA. You people probably think OBL is a good person who believes in peace and freedom and has done nothing wrong in life, and isn't involved in terrorism in any way. :rolleyes:

Seriously, some of you people are ridiculous. You will stop at nothing to bash the [insert any other country here that isn't the USA]. You people probably think GWB is a good person who believes in peace and freedom and has done nothing wrong in life, and isn't involved in terrorism in any way. :rolleyes:

LaBrujita

13-06-2004, 09:31:AM

Originally posted by rhizome17
Seriously, some of you people are ridiculous. You will stop at nothing to bash the [insert any other country here that isn't the USA]. You people probably think GWB is a good person who believes in peace and freedom and has done nothing wrong in life, and isn't involved in terrorism in any way. :rolleyes:
And believes in freedom of speech, freedom of religion, and freedom of choice.
"If you are not with us, you are against us."
That has freedom written all over it.

I am not bashing the USA or Americans, in general, I am bashing particular aspect of the country.

Glorious

13-06-2004, 12:18:PM

Americans have no respect for people in other nations. I watched an MLS game (Chicago v DC) and they were talking about Grenada, they couldn't pronounce it and they ended up saying "who Cares!" that is why other countries are so furious about the US. Total disrespect to others ends up as terrorist attacks being waged on them.

these terrorists are just as ignorant as the US and neither side will win.

Bobby

13-06-2004, 12:20:PM

there are assholes in every country.

USA Supporter

14-06-2004, 08:31:AM

Originally posted by rhizome17
Seriously, some of you people are ridiculous. You will stop at nothing to bash the [insert any other country here that isn't the USA]. You people probably think GWB is a good person who believes in peace and freedom and has done nothing wrong in life, and isn't involved in terrorism in any way. :rolleyes:

I don't even like Bush, but some of the things said on this board are so ridiculous that I actually have to defend some of his actions. I disagree with a lot of his policies.

USA Supporter

14-06-2004, 08:32:AM

Nimreitz

14-06-2004, 09:40:AM

Originally posted by Glorious_Fan
Americans have no respect for people in other nations. I watched an MLS game (Chicago v DC) and they were talking about Grenada, they couldn't pronounce it and they ended up saying "who Cares!" that is why other countries are so furious about the US. Total disrespect to others ends up as terrorist attacks being waged on them.

these terrorists are just as ignorant as the US and neither side will win.

Yeah, but seriously. Grenada has 4 professional players on their team; you can't expect us to treat them like Brazil.

I'm sure Australia takes their World Cup Qualifiers against Fiji VERY seriously :rolleyes:

Elder

14-06-2004, 09:46:AM

Originally posted by rhizome17
In his deep lair, rubbing his hands together, plotting his next move alongside the evil scientists and his hunchbacked sidekick and his thuggish henchmen. All in the fine tradition of the James Bond movie. There is a deep dungeon in the mountains of Afghanistan, accessible only by foot or helicopter, where he is about to put his plan of world domination into effect, quite possibly a death ray or laser of some sort. But we just don't know.Reconaissance photographs suggest that the top of the mountain can open up, and the ray/laser rises out of the mountain to a height that allows for the precise directing of the laser to a specially positioned mirror in outer space (possible the russians have covertly assisted in this, or even FEMA) that will send the laser towards the whitehouse, then reposition to take out disneyland, microsoft, cocacola and Macdonalds headquarters. With nothing left to drink, eat or play, and noone to lead them, America will descend into a state of anarchy.

And only the X-men will be able to stop him this time, but only if the Bush administration grants them equal rights. :kader:

hahahaha. that was an awesome post. death rays!! hahahahha, good one Rhizome.

Elder

14-06-2004, 09:48:AM

Originally posted by Glorious_Fan
Americans have no respect for people in other nations. I watched an MLS game (Chicago v DC) and they were talking about Grenada, they couldn't pronounce it and they ended up saying "who Cares!" that is why other countries are so furious about the US. Total disrespect to others ends up as terrorist attacks being waged on them.

these terrorists are just as ignorant as the US and neither side will win.

Yeah... that's why I hate the English because they always make fun of us "soccer" fans in America and have no respect for US players.

Lame argument. And don't claim the ignorance of an entire population when you say ignortant stupid **** like you just did.

Elder

14-06-2004, 09:50:AM

Originally posted by Nimreitz
Yeah, but seriously. Grenada has 4 professional players on their team; you can't expect us to treat them like Brazil.

I'm sure Australia takes their World Cup Qualifiers against Fiji VERY seriously :rolleyes:

Do they even show up? The announcers seemed to know quite a bit about Grenada today... especially that the first action of their coach was to use an illegal subsititution move before the game started... Bruce Arena just laughed and let them do it. USA 3 - Grenada 0

We should respect nations that cheat in football damnit. :kader:

LaBrujita

14-06-2004, 09:53:AM

The US had a choice: they could use the World's rallying call on 9-11 to put themselves back on a good light with the world, unite all countries, and bring the world together; or, they could segregate the world, fracture relationships, talk in black and white, use words like 'Evil', capture the sadistic human imagination, and put the world in a state where no one can oppose them, even if they wanted to.

Elder

14-06-2004, 09:56:AM

Originally posted by LaBrujita
The US had a choice: they could use the World's rallying call on 9-11 to put themselves back on a good light with the world, unite all countries, and bring the world together; or, they could segregate the world, fracture relationships, talk in black and white, use words like 'Evil', capture the sadistic human imagination, and put the world in a state where no one can oppose them, even if they wanted to.

Flying planes into buildings is about ask "black and white" as it gets my friend. I would rather have a leader who tells it how he sees it, instead of dances around with words to make the world "happy."

And I don't think the world is as fractured as you think. So keep wishing.

Nimreitz

14-06-2004, 10:44:AM

Originally posted by LaBrujita
The US had a choice: they could use the World's rallying call on 9-11 to put themselves back on a good light with the world, unite all countries, and bring the world together; or, they could segregate the world, fracture relationships, talk in black and white, use words like 'Evil', capture the sadistic human imagination, and put the world in a state where no one can oppose them, even if they wanted to.

Sorry to say it man, but your either or arguement is as Black and White as Bush has been.

LaBrujita

14-06-2004, 10:47:AM

Originally posted by Nimreitz
Sorry to say it man, but your either or arguement is as Black and White as Bush has been.
Okay, sorry, let's make it like a continium, and then place the Bush administration appropriately.

MentatYP

15-06-2004, 12:31:PM

This is why ignorant people shouldn't read--they believe everything they see in print, even on the Internet. :rolleyes:

Conspiracy theorists will always have something to talk about, and unfortunately the Internet has provided those kooks with an outlet to the world to spread their ignorance. Regardless of if you think military action against Afghanistan and Iraq was right or wrong, you're really stretching Occam's razor to the breaking point if you are positing that Bush deliberately allowed 9-11 to happen so he could attack another country.

Glorious

15-06-2004, 05:54:PM

Originally posted by USA Supporter
Another dumb post from a dumb person.

Typical american person, can't take it when it comes to the crunch. They just can't face reality outside their borders.

I have american friends but they are aware the damage their nation is doing to the rest of the world.

Parra Power

15-06-2004, 06:08:PM

Originally posted by Elder
Flying planes into buildings is about ask "black and white" as it gets my friend. I would rather have a leader who tells it how he sees it, instead of dances around with words to make the world "happy."

And I don't think the world is as fractured as you think. So keep wishing.

i would rather have a leader who doesnt bomb countries and kill countless thousands of innocent civillians for no good reason :rolleyes:

pennington10

15-06-2004, 09:09:PM

Originally posted by MentatYP
This is why ignorant people shouldn't read--they believe everything they see in print, even on the Internet. :rolleyes:

Conspiracy theorists will always have something to talk about, and unfortunately the Internet has provided those kooks with an outlet to the world to spread their ignorance. Regardless of if you think military action against Afghanistan and Iraq was right or wrong, you're really stretching Occam's razor to the breaking point if you are positing that Bush deliberately allowed 9-11 to happen so he could attack another country.

Excatly but I wouldn't say ignorant people though. It is mostly people that have some bone to pick with the country. Some people have studied up on what happened and can make valid points but it is mostly one of two people floating out these worthless theories. The guy who has been thought to hate America since he was born guy. Or the dork who was made fun of in school and now wants to get back at his coutry for allowing him to be humilated guy.

Originally posted by Glorious_Fan
Typical american person, can't take it when it comes to the crunch. They just can't face reality outside their borders.

I have american friends but they are aware the damage their nation is doing to the rest of the world.

I thought I would never say this but please go back to postboosting. I mean would take your post of Yes, I agree over any of this crap that you are talking about now.

LaBrujita

16-06-2004, 12:13:AM

Originally posted by MentatYP
This is why ignorant people shouldn't read--they believe everything they see in print, even on the Internet. :rolleyes:

That's ironic.

rhizome17

17-06-2004, 03:28:PM

Well, even the 'official' reports are getting interesting now.
-------------------------------------------
President George Bush,
1 May 2003
The liberation of Iraq removed... an ally of al-Qa'ida

Vice-President Cheney,
22 January 2004
There's overwhelming evidence... of a connection between al-Qa'ida and Iraq

Donald Rumsfeld,
14 November 2002
Within a week, or a month, Saddam could give his WMD to al-Qa'ida

Condoleezza Rice,
17 September 2003
Saddam was a danger in the region where the 9/11 threat emerged
======================

the 9/11 commissions report makes very interesting reading indeed. And still Dick Cheney aka ****face won't step back from his argument, that has been absolutely shot-to-death up to this point and the cprpse laid to rest. And people are actually going to vote for these idiots? Man.

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/story.jsp?story=532341

Good read from The Independent.

monkee

17-06-2004, 03:45:PM

That's 2 of the reasons used to justify the war on Iraq blown out of the water. The 2 reasons that where behind the doubts on the war.

What arguments are left?

Elder

18-06-2004, 12:53:PM

Originally posted by Parra Power
i would rather have a leader who doesnt bomb countries and kill countless thousands of innocent civillians for no good reason :rolleyes:

Um, you do. You live in Australia. ;)

Elder

18-06-2004, 12:58:PM

Originally posted by rhizome17
Well, even the 'official' reports are getting interesting now.
-------------------------------------------
President George Bush,
1 May 2003
The liberation of Iraq removed... an ally of al-Qa'ida

Vice-President Cheney,
22 January 2004
There's overwhelming evidence... of a connection between al-Qa'ida and Iraq

Donald Rumsfeld,
14 November 2002
Within a week, or a month, Saddam could give his WMD to al-Qa'ida

Condoleezza Rice,
17 September 2003
Saddam was a danger in the region where the 9/11 threat emerged
======================

the 9/11 commissions report makes very interesting reading indeed. And still Dick Cheney aka ****face won't step back from his argument, that has been absolutely shot-to-death up to this point and the cprpse laid to rest. And people are actually going to vote for these idiots? Man.

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/story.jsp?story=532341

Good read from The Independent.

Well, to their credit they are still sticking by what they believe. You should do some reading on the 9/11 commision... they are a bunch of hacks.

And Saddam could have given WMD to any terrorist group... There are still those who believe he moved them out of the country. Who knows anymore, but when they were planning this ****, there wasn't much room for error. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Elder

18-06-2004, 01:03:PM

Cheney's response... media bias... not at the New York Times.

"BORGER: Let me ask you what your response is to the Democratic presidential candidate, John Kerry, who said upon looking at this 9/11 report that this administration, quote, "misled America."

Vice Pres. CHENEY: In what respect? I haven't seen that.

BORGER: In terms of the relationship between al-Qaida and Iraq.

Vice Pres. CHENEY: We never said that Iraq was responsible for 9/11. We never said that. You can't find any place where I said it, where the president said it. I was asked that, as a matter of fact, by Tim Russert on "Meet the Press" on the Sunday after the attack and said, `No, we don't have any evidence of it.' Later on we received this information from the Czechs, but again, as I say, we've never been able to prove that nor have we been able to knock it down. "

I bet you can't even find it Rhizome... I've never heard it either. But it's a common arugment used agaisnt the war.

http://www.drudgereport.com/flash3.htm

Another classic part from the interview..

"Vice Pres. CHENEY: Gloria, I don't feel persecuted. I don't need to. The fact of the matter is, the evidence is overwhelming. The press is, with all due respect, and there are exceptions, oftentimes lazy, oftentimes simply reports what somebody else in the press said without doing their homework. "

Parra Power

18-06-2004, 02:38:PM

BORGER: In terms of the relationship between al-Qaida and Iraq.

Vice Pres. CHENEY: We never said that Iraq was responsible for 9/11

notice how he's ignoring the question and answering his own thing? the question was about the RELATIONSHIP between al-quaida and iraq, and not about 9/11............. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Parra Power

18-06-2004, 02:39:PM

Originally posted by Elder
Um, you do. You live in Australia. ;)

unfortunately, our leader has his penis deep up a leader who does though :confused:

Bobby

18-06-2004, 02:52:PM

or vice versa.

Bush seems like the aggressive one.

Elder

18-06-2004, 09:15:PM

Originally posted by Parra Power
notice how he's ignoring the question and answering his own thing? the question was about the RELATIONSHIP between al-quaida and iraq, and not about 9/11............. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Um... he said "We never said that Iraq was responsible for 9/11"

How much more does he have to answer the question? That's as answered as it gets.

King

19-06-2004, 05:34:AM

we should put all this idiots in one rocket and send to any unknown place were no one can reach them.:) :rockman:

Virgo

19-06-2004, 08:31:AM

Originally posted by pennington10
The fact remains it is impossible to do something on this level with so many people invovled for one simple reason. 1 out of every 2 Americans is willing to sell out any other person in order to make a buck. If it was all set up by the government then sometime in the past two years someone invovled would of came out and said something in order to make money.

you think Oswald killed Kennedy? :rolleyes:

Parra Power

19-06-2004, 03:39:PM

Originally posted by Elder
Um... he said "We never said that Iraq was responsible for 9/11"

How much more does he have to answer the question? That's as answered as it gets.

Umm... had he said something along the lines of "We never said that Iraq was working with al quaeda" he would be answering the question :confused:

Glorious

22-06-2004, 01:56:AM

well we know there were 2 gun men that were involved in the Kennedy shooting. Oswald was not responsible but the guy behind the grassy knoll.

rhizome17

22-06-2004, 05:08:AM

Originally posted by Elder

I bet you can't even find it Rhizome... I've never heard it either.

The point is this: exaplain why over 60% of Americans think Iraq WAS behind 9/11. Cheney can twist the words all he likes, the point has always been that he and others have claimed there were links between Al Quida and Iraq - neglecting the fact that the links never came to anything precisely because Saddam and Bin Laden had/ have opposing political views. By toppling Saddam, the Coalition are effectively doing Bin Ladens work - the secular state of Iraq was always a target for Bin Ladens fundmentalism. Saddam rebuffed Bin Laden. End of story. One of the 'meetings' US officials claimed happened never actually did - Atta was in Florida at the time. Sorry, but there is NO intelligence that there were any meaningful links between the two. None. Zero. Zilch. Bush - Cheney can harp on all they like, it is clear they are 100% wrong. And all this was known BEFORE the war in Iraq.

Just give up the WMD thing - they will never be found because they don't exist. It is a dead story. Al Quida had no established links with Iraq. It is a dead story.

Elder

22-06-2004, 11:52:AM

Originally posted by rhizome17
The point is this: exaplain why over 60% of Americans think Iraq WAS behind 9/11. Cheney can twist the words all he likes, the point has always been that he and others have claimed there were links between Al Quida and Iraq - neglecting the fact that the links never came to anything precisely because Saddam and Bin Laden had/ have opposing political views. By toppling Saddam, the Coalition are effectively doing Bin Ladens work - the secular state of Iraq was always a target for Bin Ladens fundmentalism. Saddam rebuffed Bin Laden. End of story. One of the 'meetings' US officials claimed happened never actually did - Atta was in Florida at the time. Sorry, but there is NO intelligence that there were any meaningful links between the two. None. Zero. Zilch. Bush - Cheney can harp on all they like, it is clear they are 100% wrong. And all this was known BEFORE the war in Iraq.

Just give up the WMD thing - they will never be found because they don't exist. It is a dead story. Al Quida had no established links with Iraq. It is a dead story.

Actually, there are links between Saddam and Al Quada. HOWEVER, there are no known links to them helping with 9/11. The media is in a lot of hot water for more distortions of the facts regarding this issue. There are KNOWN contacts between the two...

PS. American's aren't too bright most of the time.

Nimreitz

22-06-2004, 12:28:PM

Yeah, as a whole we're pretty stupid.

What I can't stand is the lying. Dick Cheney on CNBC recently was asked about his comments about the meating between a high ranking Iraqi and a high ranking member of Al-Queda; he was asked if he was wrong in saying that it was pretty much certain that there was this meeting and a link. He denied ever saying this. Well, he DID say it on December 9th, 2001. Rumsfeld does the same stuff. He was completely faded on Meet the Press when he said that he never said anything like what they quoted him as saying, and then they pulled out the clips of him saying it. I probably wouldn't mind the Bush Administration so much if these guys were gone.

Ashcroft is rediculous too. He was asked to hand over a memo that he wrote to the President to Congress. Ashcroft said that he was not going to do that. "Are you invoking Executive Privilage Sir?" "No I am not"

What an asshole! You can't just keep secrets from Congress for absolutely no reason. Congress runs the country for a reason, and it's so we don't have only one branch of government. I mean, if he invoked Executive Privilage I wouldn't be happy, but at least it's legal. This is just rediculous.

Sorry for getting off topic here, but the thread is way off topic as it is. If Bush gets re-elected, he would do everyone a big favor if he found a new VP, Secretary of Defense, and Attorney General.