How well would Vasco da Gama do without Edmundo and Romario, yet Manchester United is without Beckham, Scholes, and their coach Alex Ferguson. I'm sure any team missing these key men would not fair to well. Vasco da Gama is purely Edmundo though since Man U handed Romario 2 goals. Manchester United is still the best team in the world and they'll still come back. Rememeber Champions League, just watch!!!

oh ffs they've been thrashed, pure and simple

they're without Beckham because he was stupid and got himself banned (not for long enough either). It just goes to prove Man Utd are not the best team in the world

they haven't even managed a win yet, i'm afraid you've gotta face they've been outplayed

yeah hard lines for the reds so far down in brasil, oh well were still champions of the world, europe, and england, and i guess next year we'll get our FA cup back!!!!!!

It serves Manchester right, for them to give up their FA Cup, to play in a very poorly organized tournament with second fiddle teams, and lose it. They should have stayed with the FA Cup. But it was nice to see them get thrashed. And like I said in one of the previous topics, I KNEW ALL OF U MANU FANS WOULD BLAME THIS DEFEAT ON NOT HAVING BECKHAM AND SIR ALEX. I NEW IT! JUST ACCEPT THE FACT THAT U LOST! IF MANU TURLY ARE THE BEST CLUB IN THE WORLD, THEY SHOULD HAVE OVERCOME IT, BUT JUST LIKE WHEN THEY WERE WHITEWASHED BY CHELSEA, THEY DIDNT, AND IT PROVES THAT THEY ARENT THE BEST. NOT THIS YEAR. By the way, they are done. Expect a Vasco - Real final. Maybe even Corinthians, who knows. But not Manchester. They r done. All they have to do is go back to England and get beaten by Arsenal!

1 Month ago tokyo championship didn't deserve a ****, now it is the World Championship...

Manchester is a good team, but they have to remember that they win the championship fighting and now they will not win only with thier name...

1 Month ago tokyo championship didn't deserve a ****, now it is the World Championship...

Manchester is a good team, but they have to remember that they win the championship fighting and now they will not win only with their name...

Hope now they low down their noses and come back to the real world, where when they face good team they could lose. One thing is to win the England Championship, another is to play agaisnt the better in the world.

You must be jking woody, right? The Club Champions tournament was/is organized, and to say that the clubs playing are second fiddle teams is just plain stupid.

Real Madri, Corinthians and Vasco are great teams, teams that have won every single tournament they played and they are much, much, much better then Wrexham, Cambridge United, Tranmere Rovers, Plymouth Argyle, Preston North End.

Thats a very good question!!! But it should read How well would Vasco do without Edmundo, Romario, Felippe, Juninhio, Bianio, Jorghino etc.

Just be glad its not the sixties when only about 5 Brasilians played in Europe and the rest stayed in Brasil. The score would have been about 10 - 0

To Juninhio:

Well I guess I could of wrote, what would Manchester United do without: Cole, Yorke, Beckham, Keane, Scholes, Giggs, Irwin, Silvestre, Stam, Neville and Sir Alex Ferguson.

To Woody_007:

Any team would not do good without such main players in their squad. Beckham would of scored on the freekick at the edge of the box, and Scholes would of contributed a lot on the offensive attack. If Vasco was missing Romario and Edmundo they would be saying thats why they lost too.

To Lord:

This will be a massive learning experience to Manchetser United and hopefully Beckham.

Cantona07:

They should just scrap this dumb World Club Championship altogether. A week long tournament isn't going to be able to tell who the best is in the world. I say the Champions League is the true decider. That tournament is over half a year. FIFA are idiots to have created this tournament. They wasted their money on that new trophy.

ManUDevil, I see how well ManUtd did without Beckham... ahahahaha!!! And about the Champions League, South American teams don't take part on it, and I think we don't need to prove our superiority anymore, you are a big cock su*ker, son of a b*tch, ******* and dumb, go to the hell, loser!!!

ManUDevil, I see how well ManUtd did without Beckham... ahahahaha!!! And about the Champions League, South American teams don't take part on it, and I think we don't need to prove our superiority anymore, you are a big cock su*ker, son of a b*tch, ass*ole and dumb, go to the hell, loser!!!

Manu - How could the Championship League tell who is the best team in the world?! There are just European teams there. After this tournament I hope many Europeans change their mind, because it was not just Vasco and Corinthias, Necaxa made a great game. They could lack ability but they fight like hell and made a very good tactics.

I like this Fifa championship, it is very very fun to see teams from all over the world playing with their diferent styles.
I agree that a 1 week tournaments is not enought, but do you really think that the clubs want a real WC of clubs? it will be very dificult, but it will be super fun!
Remenber is is already a great step from the toyota championship...

ManuDevil its not Vascos fault if Romario and Edmundo arent as stupid as Beckham when it comes to losing controll over nothing.

And even if Manu had Beckham against Vasco, Beckham would eat his heart out with envy because of EDMUNDO´S goal and would start to beat the crap out of everyone.

Oh btw, remember how Manu fans were all mad about kewell and hes dive, did any Manu fan see Yorke diving for a penalty against Vasco?

Everybody said Real Madrid and Manchester United would be in the final and they are both from Europe, it is bovious that the Champions League is the main competition until FIFA can modify the tournament into a better format.

oh yeah, astolfo your cool you stupid dumb ****ing piece of ****!!!!!

It was a good championship up to this point but Brasilian fans were a disgrace. I am talking about total apathy about games which do not involve the Brasilian teams. I read that only about a 1000 people stuck around to watch the second game today? That is a very bad insult to those teams, and FIFA would be crazy to put the 2006 WC in Brasil if they are even thinking about it. I don't think they love football as much as they claim when they do things like that.

Lord how do you explain this?

Power anyone from a country that has a Football tradition (Germany, Brazil, Italy) wouldnt stick around to watch a match that didnt involve a team they didnt root for or a match that wouldnt influence their team. Do you really think a holigan would stick around to watch Mexico x Portugal? only if they were giving out free bear.

Just take any world cup, most of the games in the first round arent packet. And very few people show up to see less important teams play. Im not even going to mention the USA WC, in some televised matches the attendance was so low that they would open the gates.

Also I doubt that only 1000 stuck around to see the match, there were over 70,000 people watching VASCO also alot Mexicans were waiting for the end of the game so they could go in to watch Necaxa since the game was sold out.

How can Man Utd supporters claim that not having Beckham, Scholes or Sir Alex caused them to lose. Just a week or two before when the top four teams were crumbling against lower opposition and United were on their way to Brazil, all the Man U fans were saying that the other teams like Leeds and Arsenal lost because they didn't have the depth of Manchester United. And now they claim they lost because they were missing two of their best players and their manager. This is stupid. I saw them beat Palmeiras in the world club cup without even trying AND without some of their best players, so it does go to show that they do have the depth. But they lost to Vasco because they were second best, they weren't good enough. I'm sorry to all the Man Utd supporters, after all I just watched my team Sunderland get knocked out of the FA Cup by Tranmere, but I don't blame it on the fact that we didn't have one of our best players and I don't think Man Utd should either. At least though when another team wins the FA Cup they won't say that they only won because Man U weren't in it.

ISSS4EVER already anwser the question, but I want to complete.
It was a friday night (20:15 here) most of the guys went from work to the game. They don't want to stay another 2 Hours and arrive at home 24:00.

Today the game of South vs Necaxa got a better audience.
But today's soccer have nothing to do with stadium audience just about tv...

They should just scrap this dumb World Club Championship altogether. A week long tournament isn't going to be able to tell who the best is in the world. I say the Champions League is the true decider. That tournament is over half a year. FIFA are idiots to have created this tournament. They wasted their money on that new trophy.
- ManUDevil

HAHAHAHAHA Man Utd supporters are changing their tune now it's proven they're not the best

Man Utd fans are such cry babies cause they lost against Vasco .They use as an excuse Beckham wasnt playing .Its funny but when they played against Juventus ,Del Piero was not playing ,but Man. Utd fans still thinks they deserve to win against Juventus .Man. Utd are so stupid ,they cant accept a loss ,they always have an excuse for everything .I hope Man. Utd doesnt win anything than their crappy premier league or that crappey FA Cup that has 2 or 3 challenging teams.

Its great to see that Manchester United fans are showing their true colours. When they win, its obviously down to them being the best in the world, the best of all time, the best team in the universe, the best team...
When they lose, the fans start to head back towards their childhood: 'Well, if we didn't have Beckham suspended...' 'Its not fair...', 'Its not a real competition...' and so on. The fact remains that, to be a truly great side, you HAVE to overcome these sort of things. A great team is more than the sum of its parts, and will still function even if you remove one of those parts eg. France 98 WC Final (Laurent Blanc), and I'm sure there are many more examples. In the end, I very much doubt that having Beckham or Scholes would have made any difference to the final result, as United lost the game in their Calamity Jane-style defending in the first half, and in their lack of finishing ability, and not through the fact that they weren't creating chances.
I'm completely and thoroughly sick of the way that Manchester United fans arrogantly assume that they have the right to win, and that if they don't then it obviously wasn't their fault. We've already seen it this week: Beckham gets sent off for a loutish tackle, and Alex Ferguson blames the referee and Necaxa players. United lose, and their fans blame it just about everything except themselves.

On a different note, who else saw the BBC's coverage of the game? For those who didn't, they'd invited Alex Ferguson up into the studio to watch from their vantage point, and when they went back to the studio at half-time, Gary Lineker was a sight. Dripping with sweat, and looking completely knackered, he simply said 'Its been pretty fraught in here, I can tell you'. Priceless.

I am no big fan of Manchester United but I think that they didn't really perform like they can against Vasco...

I think they could have played better if they were in England or even Europe as the conditions looked very dodgey. I also think that had the competition been at a better time (i.e. Pre-Season) then the players would have been fitter and better prepared.

Though they can only blame themselves for loosing Beckham and Ferguson.

Thats no excuse YLK, Vasco season ended no more then 1 months ago, that 30+ games, so they were pretty much out of shape and burned out because they didnt have any time off. Also it was one of the first games that Romario played for Vasco and he had just recovered from a injury.

What I dont understand is the dodgey conditions you say, the picth was perfect unlike in Europe where this time of they year the harsh weather turns grass into mud.

ISSS4EVER,

"Im not even going to mention the USA WC, in some televised
matches the attendance was so low that they would open the gates."

-What are you talking about? You are absolutely wrong.

USA94 had the highest attendance of ANY World Cup in history!!

Here are some example of non-USA matches:
Ireland V. Italy... about 75,000
Russia V. Brazil... 81,061
Cameroon V. Sweden... 83,959
Romania V. Colombia... 91,856
Bulgaria V. Germany... 72,416
Sweden V. Romania... 81,715
Sweden V. Brazil... 84,569
etc.
etc.

Of course you would expect high atendance on those matches they were the favorites to win the wordl cup. Just look at the atendance of other matches. better I will do it myself

Morocco-Norway 2:2 (1:1) Spectators:23800


Korea Republic-Mexico 1:3(1:0)Spectators:39100

Paraguay - Bulgaria 0:0 Spectators:29800

Thats almost half the capacity of the stadiums (50,000+) and both of those matches were in the first round of France98.

ps: I couldnt find the number of Wc94 on the FIFA site could you tell me where you got those numbers. Also I know that same games in the 94 werent packet because I was there in the first round of the world cup.

I'm a massive Manchester United fan, and I admit that my team lost horribly. They played bad. But this tournament was not organized well at all. Your telling me that you are going to find out which team is the best in the world in a week. Don't think so. They need more teams and more rounds in the tournament. All the teams aren't from Europe only Man Utd. and Real Madrid. They should have the league champion from all major leagues in the world in this tournament plus winners of MAJOR CUPS like uefa or champion's league. And host country should not get a club automatically, it ain't the world cup. Its not a bad tournament but it does reqiure major changes by FIFA. They dreamed this thing up in a day.

I don't get it...
A 1 week tourn could not tell who is the best team, but a 1 day game could?
Or if you don't like Toyota cup, how Manchester became the Best team in the world?
They won the Championship League, yes, ok, great, but only that make then the Best team?

To Lord:

I did not once say that one match decides who the greatest in the world is. The tournament should be much longer and how about this.....for thhe final it is a best out of 3, each team gets a home-and-away game and the third game is at a neutral location where weather wouldn't favor or hurt a team.

ISSS4EVER,
My original numbers were from Glanville.

According to the FRANCE 98 website, (www.france98.com) USA94 drew record breaking crowds.
The AVERAGE attendance over all 52 matches was 68,991!

Considering some of the stadiums didn't hold that many, it's even more impressive.
(4 of the 9 stadiums used held less than that...Boston, Chicago, Dallas, DC)

Here are more numbers:
Belgium V. Morocco...60,790
Saudi Arabia V. Morocco...72,404
Russia V. Cameroon...74,914

These were 1st round matches with non-favorite teams.
How many teams do you consider favorites? :-)

As for attendance not being important...
Here are your original words:
"Just take any world cup, most of the games in the first round arent packet. And very few people show
up to see less important teams play. Im not even going to mention the USA WC, in some televised
matches the attendance was so low that they would open the gates."

It was your point that first round matches aren't well attended. You specifically pointed to USA 94 as an example.
All I've done is show you the numbers that say you are flat out wrong.

USA 94 was the most commercially successful World Cup ever. I could criticize a lot of things about it, but attendance isn't one of them.

Going with your idea that the numbers were boosted by "opening the gates"...
Although I find it unlikely from a security standpoint, IF they did fill the seats with Freebies, ...the seats are still full.
Judging from the profit margins, I wouldn't criticize it.

Jsbash I just went to the Wc94 site again and I found out that they only posted attendance of some matches not all. Thats strange because they were only showing the good numbers. They didnt have the attendance for games like Nigeria vs Bulgaria in DALLAS, also attendance doesnt mean much because they can always open the gate to let more people in without paying.

The plain and simple reason we lost against V asco Da Gama was Gary Neville gifting Romario the ball in his own area, not once but twice. On another day, Yorke and Giggsy would have taken their chances and we wouldn't be having this conversation. Anyway all I care about is us trashing Arsenhole Wenger's pretty boys when we get back home. I still think we can lift the Premiership and Champions Cup, and If we do next year we should tell FIFA to stick their Club World Championship up where the sun don't shine and they should also tell Posh Spice to keep her mouth shut and her self preserving opinions to herself.

Mike 'Air'

M.U.F.C 4 LIFE.

To Mu Fans.. when lose already just take the fact la..

What for givin reasons after losing like no beckham schole or Ferguson ??!!!


And what reason would you give if Vasco still win the match if MU have it's full 1st eleven on the pitch ??? Dun tell me u will say the weather is too hot or so whatever..


U MU fans are just a sore loser.. never admit of losing..!!

This is in response to ISS who said they opened the gates for free in US 94 : where do you get your information because whoover it was he's been feeding you some big lies.

Most of the tickets for WC94,(and 98 by the way) were pre-sold before groups were even drawn, that is people were buying the games they did not even know who would be playing in,(with about 20 percent of tickets held back to be sold to federations of teams that actually played the games.) Now there were empty seats at some games, most likely due to returns, but the numbers were not even close to what you are suggesting- most of the games were complete sell-outs, and those that were not were up to 80 percent full. I have the statistics for all the games if you want them.

Also as to France 98 I would like to see which games you were talking about when you said there were all these empty seats and where you got your numbers? First of all only 3 stadiums had above 50 thousand capacity(2 Paris stadiums, and Marsaille) most of the others are in the mid 30 thou range.
Second, the numbers I have from published reports at that time:
Morocco-Norway: 35.5 thou. in Montpellier which has 35.5 capacity.
Korean Rep- Mexico: 43 thous, Lyon 42 thou capacity.
Paraguya-Bulgaria: 33thou in Montpellier again(35.5)

This stupid topic just proves that Man U supporters dont know anything about soccer and when they lose there is always an excuse!

i dont think there is any other club in the world with supporters like Man U.......

"If Beckham was there we wouldnt have won!!"

The point is that BECKHAM WASNT THERE!!!!!!!
He let down himself and his team and thats his fault.......

And also now that Man U are not going to make the final the tournement is badly organised and is a joke.....now i didnt hear you saying that before the Vasco game!!!
And you all yourself champions because of the Toyato Cup which no one cares about so that means that whoever wins this tournement will be World Champions!!!!

And this tournement has also opened mine and many other eyes of the quality of Brazilian teams.

Oh what a surprise, two Brazillian teams in the final of the WCC in .....Brazil! Come on, if that tournament had been played in Japan, where the Toyota cup is held, Man Utd and Real Madrid would have done much better!! Before you accuse me of being a sore loser remember this, If you can't take the bad times as well as the good, then you are not a true fan, the lows are there to make you appreciate what victory means, remember that in May. In 1995 Man Utd in one week lost the Premierleague title, the Coca Cola Cup final to Aston Villa and The FA Cup to Everton, so yes I know what losing is like. and in 1998 when the Arse snatched the double. Yes Man Utd are more accustomed to success, but when I first supported them at the age of 4 in 1984, Utd were a sleeping Giant and Liverpool were Kings, it was until 1993 when we won the league. I am truly ashamed of the bitter hatred against the club I chose to stick with.

Mike 'Air'

So the Brazilian team just won because the games were in Brazil?

Right...
You guys don´t know how to lose...

Hope we never get a Tourn in Papua New Guine, or he may have a best team from there... http://www.soccergaming.com/ubb/smile.gif

There is no if, there is win and lost and Manchester lost.

Ok then, so Brazil only lost to France because they were playing home?

And about Manu being accustomed to success its bull they wouldnt even make the TOP5 European teams in number of titles.

1# Real Madri thats for sure.

ops wrong topic

To italy82,
The Second Leg of the Man U vs Juve game was won by true team spirit.. you still had 2 of the best players playing... Filippo Inzaghi and Zinidine Zidane.
Man Utd were 2 nil down in 9 minutes and they were playing in italy, yet 3 goals go in and Manchester Utd win 3 x 2, One player doesn't make up the team!!!!. Maybe if Blomqvist was alright he could have filled in for becks... or even Change to a 4-3-3 format
Bosnich

G.Neville - Stam - Silvestre - Irwin

Blomqvist - Keane - Giggs

Cole - Fortune - Yorke

Subs
Sheringham
Scholes
Solskjaer
P.Neville
Vand Der Gouw

hows that for a lineup? I don't think beckham makes up the whole squad!

Ummmm .... You Manchester Fans amaze me. You can't accept defeat without any dignity. Just face it, if your team was the best, then they would have won the World Club. But they didnt. Corinthians did. So they are the best. Not ManU. Accept with grace, not like Beckham. Lord has a very good point. So does ISSS4EVER. But don't worry. Arsenal will be along shortly to put ManU out of their misery.

You say that Beckham doesnt make up your whole team but i hear so many Man U supporters after tehy lost to Vasco complaining they didnt have Beckham then and the reason why the lost!!