wth.... now that Iraq is done...next up on the list is it's neighbour...

http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/07/20/bush.iran/index.html

I expect this will be the next war if Bush wins another term in office.

It shouldn't be. Iran is absolutely no threat, everyone knows that. Iran is also gradually taking steps in the right direction; and plus I think if we overthrew a Shi-ite Imam there wouldn't be one american to leave that nation alive.

He's a spineless warmonger.:kader:

Come on Kerry

Bush is a psycho

The tax paid by the US citizens is well spent.

Originally posted by Bobby
Come on Kerry

Hahaha... Kerry (real name Kohn) will carry on with the same globalist agenda.

Originally posted by Davilton
Hahaha... Kerry (real name Kohn) will carry on with the same globalist agenda.
Then who should be voted? Sure there's not much of a difference between politicians, but we all know that Kerry is a less of a retard.

Another war shouldn't happen. Some people just want to be in the military in peacetime and take all the advantages.

Originally posted by Davilton
Hahaha... Kerry (real name Kohn) will carry on with the same globalist agenda. What's his last name have to do with this? :rolleyes: (Unless you hate Austrian Jews.)

looks like Bush is trying hard to find another "common enemy" just in time for elections..

I think Bush is just looking to link countries to 9/11. I doubt Iran had anything to do with it. Invading Iran would be stupid and pointless and I doubt we would do that. I wish someone decent was running against Bush because I don't like either candidate, but if I could vote in this election, there is no way that I would vote for Bush. I was for the Iraq war but overall I think Bush is doing a bad job.

Originally posted by Davilton
Hahaha... Kerry (real name Kohn) will carry on with the same globalist agenda.

Who the **** cares what his name is? Yeah, Kerry will stay in Iraq and Afghanistan, but it would be horrible if we left Iraq at this point. You have to finish what we start.

What about NADER??

Originally posted by Vagegast
What's his last name have to do with this? :rolleyes: (Unless you hate Austrian Jews.)

No, sorry; no 'hidden agenda'. Kohn can also be pronounced as 'con', as a play on words. That's what i meant: a different President, but the same warmongering agenda. I suppose one could be a tad cynical, and ask why he (or his father) chose to use an Irish sounding surname: To appeal to the 'powerful' Irish voting lobby??

Anyway, he admitted to being a 'Skull & Bones' member, just like George W. Bush. Hey, no conspiracy. :)

Hopefully he doesn't get my country involved this time, although he probably will.

Bush can go **** himself.

Originally posted by Davilton
I suppose one could be a tad cynical,
and ask why he (or his father) chose to use an Irish sounding surname: To appeal to the 'powerful' Irish voting lobby?? Actually it was his grandfather (Fritz Kohn, a shoe factory manager) and he changed his name because he converted to Catholicism (Frederick Kerry). He moved to Massachusets in 1905 and killed himself after debts mounted.

Anything else?

Originally posted by Vagegast
Actually it was his grandfather (Fritz Kohn, a shoe factory manager) and he changed his name because he converted to Catholicism (Frederick Kerry). He moved to Massachusets in 1905 and killed himself after debts mounted.

Anything else?

You don't need an Irish surname to be a catholic. He's also related to European Royality, as is Bush. Just a co-incidence...

Bush And Kerry Both Related To Queen Elizabeth



Reuters London


If royal genes have any influence, John Kerry looks destined to dethrone George W. Bush in November's U.S. presidential election. According to a theory its British proponents say has proved surprisingly accurate over the past century, the candidate with the bluest blood in his veins will win the White House. In 2000 it was Bush. This time, it's Kerry.

"Our research is not yet complete but my bet is that Kerry has more royal connections and that he is more noble than President Bush," said Harold Brooks-Baker, publishing director of Burke's Peerage, a guide to the British aristocracy. "But both candidates have a remarkable number of royal connections and both are related to Queen Elizabeth."

Kerry, a Yale-educated war veteran, is preparing to take on Republican Bush in what many believe may be one of the most bitterly fought presidential campaign in history. The 60-year-old can trace his roots back to the first Massachusetts governor, John Winthrop, to every great family in Boston and to a host of royals in Europe. "Kerry can almost certainly be traced back to King James I and to the bloodlines straight through the Windsor and Hanover families," Brooks-Baker said. James I, the son of Mary, Queen of Scots, ruled England from 1603-1625 and is best remembered for commissioning a new translation of the Bible. Much of Kerry's royal heritage comes through his mother's side. Kerry, a Catholic, recently learned that his paternal grandfather was an ethnic German Jew born in a former mining town near the Polish border. A mountainside Swiss boarding school, popular with Habsburgs, Rothschilds, Spanish princes and other European nobility, has dusted off its files to reveal an 11-year-old Kerry was top of his class when he spent a year there half a century ago.

Although Kerry's family tree might have more royal branches than Bush's, the president himself is no commoner. Bush was more royal than Al Gore, his opponent four years ago, and also boasts a direct descent from Henry III and from Henry VIII's sister Mary Tudor, who was also the wife of Louis XI of France. He is also descended from Charles II of England. Brooks-Baker said there has always been a significant "royalty factor" in those who aspired to the White House, with Presidents George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Theodore and Franklin Roosevelt and Ronald Reagan among others all with strong blue blood links. "The chance of winning certainly seems much higher with more royal connections and one could make a big case that royal genes or chromosomes will tell," Brooks-Baker said.

Originally posted by Davilton
You don't need an Irish surname to be a catholic. He's also related to European Royality, as is Bush. Just a co-incidence... It was his decision, not mine. I guess Kohn was too Jewish-sounding for a Catholic.

And was John Winthrop European royalty? (Bush is a 13th cousin of the Queen of England.)

Originally posted by Vagegast
It was his decision, not mine. I guess Kohn was too Jewish-sounding for a Catholic.

And was John Winthrop European royalty? (Bush is a 13th cousin of the Queen of England.)

I posted some information above. :) Call it ESP! LOL

Originally posted by Davilton
Bush And Kerry Both Related To Queen Elizabeth I guess I'll vote for Nader now :wootman: :jap:

Originally posted by Vagegast
I guess I'll vote for Nader now :wootman: :jap:

Hahahaha.. you can't escape from Imperialism. :(
That's how I'm certain that Kerry will carry through the agenda...

Originally posted by ryan_goal
The tax paid by the US citizens is well spent.

No no no no no!

Noone seems to get what a masterstroke this is... by linking Iran to 9/11, Bush and his mates will actually be SAVING taxpayer money.

Think about it. All of the speeches on Iraq will be saved as Word documents, right? Now all they have to do is pay some intern peanuts to use the 'Find and Replace' function in Microsoft Word... i.e. Replace 'Iraq' with 'Iran'. All the speeches can be recycled, and noone has to be paid for anything new. They can basically cut the CIA out of the loop, saving even more money (especially pertinent given the complete incompetence of the organisation - 'US Intelligence' is well and truly an oxymoron).

Finally, the troops and equipment are already next door to Iran - it will cost next to nothing in terms of transportation, now that they have direct access to the second-largest known oil reserves in the world.

So can't you see the logic now... Iran was already on the invasion list (axis of evil and all that).

PS. My only hesitation is that Halliburton will already be onto this exercise in cost-cutting, and will be inflating their invoices accordingly.

Originally posted by Davilton
He's also related to European Royality, as is Bush. Just a co-incidence...
Who's not related to European Royality anyway? :D


Kerry's grandpa Fritz Kohn was German (born in Silesia). In 1904 he immigrated to the United States and changed his name to Frederick Kerry.

Originally posted by Nimreitz
It shouldn't be. Iran is absolutely no threat, everyone knows that. Iran is also gradually taking steps in the right direction; and plus I think if we overthrew a Shi-ite Imam there wouldn't be one american to leave that nation alive.

They are secretly building a nuke... they are a threat. But I think we should go full force in trying to fund those in the country who are opposed to the Mullahs, in order to overthrow their government.

I doubt it would be that hard...

Originally posted by Elder
They are secretly building a nuke...

Elder works for MI6 now.

Originally posted by Elder
They are secretly building a nuke... they are a threat.

Who says, Fox News? Rumsfeld? Where are Saddam Hussein's 'Weapons of Mass Destruction' (no lewd comments please)- up his jersey?

Oil, the destabilisation of the Middle-East; and world domination- that's what it's all about...

War with Iran will happen when Israel decides it has to.

1. Remember who bombed Iraq's nuclear facility in the 80's? Israel.
2. Who provided the 'intelligence' regarding Iraqs NON-EXISTENT WMD's? Israel.
3. Which is the only country in the middle east to actually POSSESS nuclear weapons? Israel.
4. For which country did the US veto loads of UN resolutions? Israel.

I think we see the common link here.

Originally posted by rhizome17
War with Iran will happen when Israel decides it has to.

1. Remember who bombed Iraq's nuclear facility in the 80's? Israel.
2. Who provided the 'intelligence' regarding Iraqs NON-EXISTENT WMD's? Israel.
3. Which is the only country in the middle east to actually POSSESS nuclear weapons? Israel.
4. For which country did the US veto loads of UN resolutions? Israel.

I think we see the common link here.

I couldn't agree more. You can 'join the dots', but there's none so blind... and all that.

well said.......Israel in my opinion is the main theme of all the US politics as America can get its oil and influence with just being friendly and doing business with these countries....you don't need to invade and kill your own young men for something u already have!!

everything that has to do with terrorists is to the benefit of Israel.... every was is to their benefit......i dont believe in conspiracy but i believe in supidity (Bush)...

shez

Originally posted by Elder
They are secretly building a nuke... they are a threat. But I think we should go full force in trying to fund those in the country who are opposed to the Mullahs, in order to overthrow their government.

I doubt it would be that hard...

You just do NOT understand Islam. You want to overthrow a Shi-ite Imam in a nation that is close to 100% Shi-ite? That is the stupidist idea I have ever heard in my life. The entire nation, women, children, cripples, old men, dogs; they would ALL fight the American occupation. It would seriously be a .5% minority that we would put into power after overthrowing and imprisoning the major religious and political leader of Iran.

On a side note, I was watching Fox News yesterday and the guy on Fox and Friends was talking about the Lebanese soldier who probably deserted the army. The Fox News anchor said "The soldier thanked God (eventhough he's a muslim) that he got back safely after being held hostage." WHAT THE **** IS THIS ******* ****! It's the same GOD! If you said that about a Jew there would be hell to pay, but no, it's ok to just completely blast Muslims and call them godless; good job douchebag.

Regarding Kerry and his "ties" to the british royal family....so what? Why does it matter at all who his great great great great great cousin twice removed was? It doesn't influence him in the slightest. And the Yale Skull and Bones Society, yeah big deal! It's an extra curricular organization, it's not like they have some secret agenda to rule the world; if everyone had to obey and stay true to college buddies or what they believed in in college, the world would be a messed up place. It won't be the same if it was Kerry, although I also admit that I don't like him all that much.

Another thing, everyone is predicting a close election, but I really think that no one is counting on minorities and youth to turn out to the polls like I think they will, plus when minorities are disenfranchised and turned away from the polls (especially in swing states such as the Great State of Florida), there will be hell to pay in the form of lawsuits; I don't think anyone will do that this year. I really think Kerry could run away with this election.

And finally I want to know why we consider "flip flopping" on issues a weakness. Do you really want people in charge who are so arrogant that they believe they are 100% correct every single time and that nothing can happen to prove them wrong? I guess the old saying "it takes a real man to admit when he's wrong" doesn't apply to politicians, which I think is a shame.

Have you guys heard the news about the new Iraqi PM shooting the prisoners? Execution style, bullet in the back of the head. You know, like Saddam used to do. Just wondering.

Yeah I heard about it. I also heard (albiet on FOX News) that the rumours might have been started by the Prime Minister himself in order to toughen up his image to the Iraqi people.

All I can say is that I really hope this isn't true, although the USA still has the death penalty, so I don't know if it's MASSIVELY out of line if they're death row prisoners. I mean, it's a little funny the Prime Minister would do it himself. I really don't know what to make of it; I just really hope another dictator didn't just displace Saddam. The PM's talking about delaying the elections too from what I hear.

Haha, Iraq have asked the UN weapons inspectors to come back :confused:

Originally posted by rhizome17
War with Iran will happen when Israel decides it has to.

1. Remember who bombed Iraq's nuclear facility in the 80's? Israel.
2. Who provided the 'intelligence' regarding Iraqs NON-EXISTENT WMD's? Israel.
3. Which is the only country in the middle east to actually POSSESS nuclear weapons? Israel.
4. For which country did the US veto loads of UN resolutions? Israel.

I think we see the common link here.

So we should bomb Israel? Oh well, at least Rhizome is still sticking up for repressive regimes like that of Iran. Way to go, you should be proud of yourself.

Originally posted by Nimreitz
You just do NOT understand Islam. You want to overthrow a Shi-ite Imam in a nation that is close to 100% Shi-ite? That is the stupidist idea I have ever heard in my life. The entire nation, women, children, cripples, old men, dogs; they would ALL fight the American occupation. It would seriously be a .5% minority that we would put into power after overthrowing and imprisoning the major religious and political leader of Iran.


I never said anything about an American occupation... The government of that country will be overthrown one day. And it won't be US forces that are doing it, but the people living within the country who are fed up. Maybe you missed the student riots...

Originally posted by shez


everything that has to do with terrorists is to the benefit of Israel.... every was is to their benefit......i dont believe in conspiracy but i believe in supidity (Bush)...

shez

If terrorists didn't make Israel their main target, Israel wouldn't have so much power in this regard.

It's Operation I is the Enemy. Affectionately known as Friendly Fire.

Originally posted by Elder
So we should bomb Israel? Oh well, at least Rhizome is still sticking up for repressive regimes like that of Iran. Way to go, you should be proud of yourself.

Why does there have to be bombing of someone all the time with you? Not very libertarian.

ANd just point out where I was sticking up for them. You can't.

Why not actually try engaging with what I actually say, rather than your narrow interpretation.

Originally posted by Elder
I never said anything about an American occupation... The government of that country will be overthrown one day. And it won't be US forces that are doing it, but the people living within the country who are fed up. Maybe you missed the student riots...


student riots happen in the U.S. too....

Originally posted by Elder
If terrorists didn't make Israel their main target, Israel wouldn't have so much power in this regard.


,......and we come full circle .....why do they make Israel their main target....

Originally posted by rhizome17
Why does there have to be bombing of someone all the time with you? Not very libertarian.

ANd just point out where I was sticking up for them. You can't.

Why not actually try engaging with what I actually say, rather than your narrow interpretation.

Actually my opinion on Iran is that we shouldn't bomb them. They will bomb themselves eventually. But maybe there is a chance they have some sort of peaceful revolution over there.

In regards to your sticking up for twisted regimes, you start a conversation about Israel... Instead of engaging the topic at hand, you turn it to something else you have problems with. I rarely, if ever, see you pointing out what's wrong with dictatorships like that of Iran. In this case, it's now about Israel... Thank goodness they bombed that nuke site. Do you really want Iran to have nuke capacity? It seems to me you would rather the world have less nukes in the world... I could be wrong, but Israel having a nuke is alot less dangerous than Iran having one...

But that's just me.

Originally posted by Pontiakos
student riots happen in the U.S. too....

Yeah, after the LA Lakers win a basketball championship...

Originally posted by Elder
I could be wrong, but Israel having a nuke is alot less dangerous than Iran having one...

But that's just me.


....by the way Israel treats Palestinian civilians I'd say.....you're wrong

Originally posted by Pontiakos
,......and we come full circle .....why do they make Israel their main target....

There are thousands is misguided reasons why they target Israel. Most of it has to do with intense hatred and religion.

Take religion out of the equation and what else is there? That goes for both sides...

Originally posted by Elder
Yeah, after the LA Lakers win a basketball championship...


how about every six months at war protests.... the Lakers won the championship last year....

Originally posted by Elder
There are thousands is misguided reasons why they target Israel. Most of it has to do with intense hatred and religion.

Take religion out of the equation and what else is there? That goes for both sides...


so.....intense hatred..........WHY?.......why do they hate them?

Originally posted by Pontiakos
so.....intense hatred..........WHY?.......why do they hate them?

Decades of brainwashing...

Originally posted by Elder
Decades of brainwashing...


Decades of brainwashing about what......?

Originally posted by Pontiakos
how about every six months at war protests.... the Lakers won the championship last year....

Sorry, but those protests just haven't happened. Read about the protests in Iran and you will know that what happened there has not happened here in a loooong time.

Originally posted by Elder
Sorry, but those protests just haven't happened. Read about the protests in Iran and you will know that what happened there has not happened here in a loooong time.


I hope you're writing a response to my question above....

Originally posted by Pontiakos
Decades of brainwashing about what......?

Do you really not know???????

Originally posted by Pontiakos
I hope you're writing a response to my question above....

Yeah, the student protests in Iran were aimed at overthrowing the government, or at least creating awareness that people are ready for change from the backwards relgious nuthouse they have over there.

The protests here against the war were to stop the war... two totally different things.

Originally posted by Elder
Do you really not know???????


yeah I really don't know I want you to tell me what they are brainwashed about....

Originally posted by Pontiakos
yeah I really don't know I want you to tell me what they are brainwashed about....

http://www.pmw.org.il/

have fun

Originally posted by Nimreitz


Regarding Kerry and his "ties" to the british royal family....so what? Why does it matter at all who his great great great great great cousin twice removed was? It doesn't influence him in the slightest. And the Yale Skull and Bones Society, yeah big deal! It's an extra curricular organization, it's not like they have some secret agenda to rule the world; if everyone had to obey and stay true to college buddies or what they believed in in college, the world would be a messed up place. It won't be the same if it was Kerry, although I also admit that I don't like him all that much.



Yeah, bloodline ties to the the Royal family; Skull & Bones membership: Masturbating in coffins, worshipping an Owl god, burning an effigy of an infant, and offering it to the Owl god all at Bohemian Grove- nothing to worry about. No, it's all a big co-incidence how Clinton himself, is also related to European Royalty.

The truth is out there on the Internet, but you proletarians are too enamoured with your puerile entertainments and consumerism, to care about how this world really. You watch Fox News, eh?...

Imagine this hypothetical situation: the British stop running the USA by covert means, and run the Union flag up the pole at the White House, would you start to join the dots then? From 1776, Britain has administered the USA by stealth. :)

Originally posted by Davilton


The truth is out there on the Internet, but you proletarians are too enamoured with your puerile entertainments and consumerism, to care about how this world really. You watch Fox News, eh?...

Always with the Fox News. I should find that study showing the Fox News Report being the most balanced of all news shows...

And the "truth" on the internet... what a laugh. You have to sort through 10 times the lies and garbage to find one fact.

Proletariant... haha... entertainments... you are typing this on a soccer VIDEO GAME website board. You're a moron.

Originally posted by Elder

Proletariant... haha... entertainments... you are typing this on a soccer VIDEO GAME website board. You're a moron.



heh. He has Mensa as his homepage in his profile .


What a tryhard

Originally posted by IceBlu
heh. He has Mensa as his homepage in his profile .


What a tryhard

It's all good. This whole thing is entertainment, no matter how "serious" we all try to be. I just like the big words he used. I am smarter today because of them.

;)

Originally posted by Elder

you are typing this on a soccer VIDEO GAME website board. You're a moron.

No, I'm associating with morons. :) Your point would be valid, if I hadn't spent years educating myself, and learning to think for myself...

Good response though. :)

/Edit/

Before you take offense, I'm not referring to you as a moron... you might have seen that thread yesterday. All good entertainment.

/Edit

Originally posted by Elder
It's all good. This whole thing is entertainment, no matter how "serious" we all try to be. I just like the big words he used. I am smarter today because of them.

;)

We should all try to better ourselves- what's wrong with that?

Originally posted by Elder
http://www.pmw.org.il/

have fun


posting a web page that reproduces other people's opinions doesn't answer my question elder.....I could have looked that up myself....I want you to tell me why....

Originally posted by Pontiakos
posting a web page that reproduces other people's opinions doesn't answer my question elder.....I could have looked that up myself....I want you to tell me why....

Try to ignoe the opinion part of the site and focus on the commercials and fact based material on how the PA has used the media and school to foster the hatred of Israel.

Most Israelis don't hate Palestinians. Why is that? It probably has alot to do with education...

Either way, I could actually answer your question with a long drawn out reply, but I don't have the time. Here' a quick rundown.

- Israel founded, war, palestinians kicked out of their "land"...
- More war, arabs lose.
- More war, arabs lose again.
- Hatred, terrorism, religious zealots dominate information.
- Etc. etc.
-

It's just a mess, but I think things are looking up. Maybe the Palestinians are finally fed up with the lies and BS that Arafat has fed them for so many decades. He has basically put them into a meat grinder for his own personal and political gain.

Originally posted by Elder

- Israel founded, war, palestinians kicked out of their "land"...
- More war, arabs lose.
- More war, arabs lose again.




aaaaahh thank you......at least you admit the truth.....most conservatives beat around the bush (no pun intended).....

Originally posted by Pontiakos
aaaaahh thank you......at least you admit the truth.....most conservatives beat around the bush (no pun intended).....

Nah, I know the general history of what happened and who was involved, etc. The problem that the Palestinians have is not really Israel, but the corrupt Arab governments "supporting" them. They are just pawns, and it's rather sad actually.

I am not a fan of either side. I am not happy that billions of US dollars go to Israel and Egypt just to keep the "peace." However, if one side is being hit by terrorism for decades and decades, it just makes sense for Israel to be as brutal as they are.

Originally posted by Pontiakos
most conservatives beat around the bush (no pun intended).....

Quite witty though. It is Palestinian land, and the Zionists are the oppressive occupiers. You know, many Jews are against the man-made State of Israel, isn't that interesting...

I hate the globalists!

Originally posted by Davilton
Quite witty though. It is Palestinian land, and the Zionists are the oppressive occupiers. You know, many Jews are against the man-made State of Israel, isn't that interesting...

I hate the globalists!

What's funny is that Jews had been living there before there was ever a "Muslim" land... It's also funny that when the Jews started coming back in big numbers, they created much more for themselves than the Palestinians or any other people who lived there ever did. I think there is a lot of jealousy because of that.

Originally posted by Elder
What's funny is that Jews had been living there before there was ever a "Muslim" land... It's also funny that when the Jews started coming back in big numbers, they created much more for themselves than the Palestinians or any other people who lived there ever did. I think there is a lot of jealousy because of that.

In all seriousness, we are all pawns, and it would be great if mankind could evolve and stop the tribalism. We're all used by the globalists, to suit their ends. That's my point about 'entertainments', they stop people from thinking! :)

Originally posted by Elder
What's funny is that Jews had been living there before there was ever a "Muslim" land... It's also funny that when the Jews started coming back in big numbers, they created much more for themselves than the Palestinians or any other people who lived there ever did. I think there is a lot of jealousy because of that.


well. if we are to believe Jewish history.....i.e. the Torah......then the jews have done nothing but imposse imperialism on the Palastenians for thousands of years....

1) you're wrong......the jews moved into Palestine thousands of years ago and had to fight the Palestinians to do so (Phillistines...Jerico etc...) so read a little more before making ignorant statements.......the Phillistinians/ Palestinians (bastardized Latin version) had lived in the land for 1000 years prior to the jews....not trying to make this personal but I hate when history is mirepressented

2)actually those that created the most for the area were the eastern Roman Empire.....and the Muslims.....I haven't seen any monuments put up by the Jews recently.....



and finally I'm quoting you on the reason why the Palestinians hate the jews....so that we are all clear...

Originally posted by Pontiakos
well. if we are to believe Jewish history.....i.e. the Torah......then the jews have done nothing but imposse imperialism on the Palastenians for thousands of years....

1) you're wrong......the jews moved into Palestine thousands of years ago and had to fight the Palestinians to do so (Phillistines...Jerico etc...) so read a little more before making ignorant statements.......the Phillistinians/ Palestinians (bastardized Latin version) had lived in the land for 1000 years prior to the jews....not trying to make this personal but I hate when history is mirepressented

2)actually those that created the most for the area were the eastern Roman Empire.....and the Muslims.....I haven't seen any monuments put up by the Jews recently.....



and finally I'm quoting you on the reason why the Palestinians hate the jews....so that we are all clear...

The word "phillistine" is just a word the Romans gave to the people of the area. If I am not mistaken, Jews also lived there, not just "palestinians." Or in what you describe as "phillistines." I am not quite sure about my history at the moment, but I think that the Assyrians, mesopotamians and the like were there before any "phillistine."

About making ignorant statements. Every people fought each other for land back then... Just because the Jews did also doesn't make them any worse than any other group of people.

In modern history, the Jews have turned that land of dirt on the med. sea into a modern, succesful state... They were able to irrigate the desert like no other people had. Thank goodness they don't need to build statues to themselves like the Romans and the Christians or the Greeks, etc etc. Thank goodness they also don't need to put up paintings of their leaders all over town, or pictures of suicide bombers on the walls of the city.

Originally posted by Elder
The word "phillistine" is just a word the Romans gave to the people of the area. If I am not mistaken, Jews also lived there, not just "palestinians." Or in what you describe as "phillistines." I am not quite sure about my history at the moment, but I think that the Assyrians, mesopotamians and the like were there before any "phillistine."

About making ignorant statements. Every people fought each other for land back then... Just because the Jews did also doesn't make them any worse than any other group of people.

In modern history, the Jews have turned that land of dirt on the med. sea into a modern, succesful state... They were able to irrigate the desert like no other people had. Thank goodness they don't need to build statues to themselves like the Romans and the Christians or the Greeks, etc etc. Thank goodness they also don't need to put up paintings of their leaders all over town, or pictures of suicide bombers on the walls of the city.




PUBLIC opinion has been led by the Zionist propaganda machine to believe that Palestine was a neglected desolate land without a people in need of a people without a country and that developments and progress were the result of Zionist Initiative. As it will be proven below, this is not true.

The Holy Land, since the Crusader genocide, has been renowned for its olive groves and olive oil industry; and long before Zionist immigration began in 1920, Palestine was known as a citrus exporting country, famous for the Jaffa Orange. It is unknown when the citrus industry was first developed in Palestine but records shows that in 1912 ¿1913, the Arabs had exported 1,608,570 cases of oranges to Europe.

As regards the hill regions, the country is covered with olive orchards, vineyards and other deciduous fruit trees; while the lands in the South were used for the cultivation of grain, and those in the Jordan Valley for the production of vegetables and fruits. Every inch of fertile soil was used to full capacity; and more and more rocky patches were being turned into orchards and groves. In that regards, its worth quoting Ahad Ha'Am, a leading Eastern European Jewish essayist who visited Palestine in 1891 for three months, when he tried to open many Jewish people eyes:

"We abroad are used to believe the Eretz Yisrael is now almost totally desolate, a desert that is not sowed ..... But in truth that is not the case. Throughout the country it is difficult to find fields that are not sowed. Only sand dunes and stony mountains .... are not cultivated." (Righteous Victims, p. 42)

Is it not ironic that Israel should today claim and take pride in the two principal agricultural industries, citrus and olives, started and developed over the centuries by the Arab victims of Israeli aggression?

Following is a list showing the major crops of Palestine before 1947 and the portion produced by Jews:

Citrus

The total area planted with citrus before the British mandated terminated was 281,448 dunums, (1 dunum = 1,000 sq. meters) of which 139,728 dunums were owned by the Jews.

The export of oranges was as follows: -

Period Orange boxes exported*
1908 - 1909 744,463
1910 - 1911 869,850
1912 - 1913 1,608,570
1938 - 1939 16,000,000

* A box of citrus on average contained 144 oranges.

Olives

During the 1944 - 1945, the area of the land planted with olives was 595,405 dunums, of which the Jews owned only 7,000 dunums or less than 1.2%. In the year 1944 - 1945, the amount of olive produced was 75,341 tons. The number of fruitful olives trees was estimated to be 6,000,000 trees and each tree produces 2 kg. during the draught periods and 12 kg. in the fruitful periods, and an average of 7 kg. per year.


Source: Survey of Palestine, prepared by the British Mandate for the United Nations, p. 323-327
* Value in Palestinian Pound
** Non-citrus fruits. Note that Citrus production totaled of 248,274 dunums of which 120,897 dunums were Jewish owned (Supplement to Survey of Palestine, p. 37)

Demographic Makeup & Land Ownership in 1947

At the end of World War I, Palestine was an Arab country similar to other parts of the Arab World. It had a population of of 657,000 Muslim Arabs, 81,000 Christian Arabs, and 59,000 Jews (including many European Jews from the first and second Aliyah). So the Jewish population of Palestine in 1914 made up under 8% of the total population (Righteous Victims, p. 83). It should noted that most Palestinian Jews (Yishuv) at the time where mostly Hasidic Jews concentrating in and around Jerusalem, Safad, and Jaffa, and only 12,000 of these Jews lived on the land as farmers.

The number of Jewish colonies in Palestine in 1914 was 47 colonies distributed as follows:

Region No. of Zionist Colonies
Coastal Plain 22
Marj Bin Amir 1
Al Ghoar / Beisan Valley 6
Northern Galilee & Houleh 5
Southern Plain 7
Jerusalem Mountains 2
Careml or Haifa 4
Total 47

This is against a total number of 21 cities and 949 towns and villages in the Arab area distributed as follows:

District No. of Cities No. of Villages Total
Galilee 5 198 203
Haifa 1 52 53
Nablus 4 270 274
Jaffa 3 93 96
Jerusalem 5 272 277
Gaza 3 64 67
Total 21 949 970


As of 1918, Jewish land holdings amounted to 162,500 acres out of a total of 6,674,560 acres which is the total area of Palestine (27,009 Sq. Km.). This is equivalent to 2.4% of the total land area of Palestine. These consisted of holdings partly in the principal towns and partly in 47 Jewish settlements in different parts of the country. When the British mandate was terminated in 1948 and the Jewish state came into existence, Jewish land holdings had increased to only 372,925 acres or 5.6% of the total land area of Palestine of 6,674,560 acres still an insignificant figure to justify the Israeli usurpation of Palestine. On the other hand, the Jewish population in Palestine jumped to 500,000 out of 1,700,000 (the total population of Palestine in 1948), which is still less than 30% of the total population of the country.



Population
Land Ownership (acres)

Arabs Jewish Arabs Jewish
1917 738,000 59,00 6,512,060 162,500
92% 8% 97.6% 2.4%
1947 1,200,000 500,000 6,296,112 378,448
70% 30% 94.33% 5.67%




Rewrite history, spread gross lies, force poor folks to leave their homeland by ways of slaughtering them, liquidating their monetary and land wealth and also by making them sign deportation and deposition papers under duress and extreme hardship....*sigh*

You should quote your sources...

I **** on your thread, enjoy, you might want to use a knife and fork though.

Originally posted by shokz
I **** on your thread, enjoy, you might want to use a knife and fork though.

I was actually thinking about grabbin' some lunch...

Originally posted by Elder


sit down my son....


The word "phillistine" is just a word the Romans gave to the people of the area.

Nooooo......palestinian....is the word the Romans gave them (as is well documented ancient latin had difficulty pronouncing -F- properly so all -Fs- were turned to Ps......Phillistine is what they called themselves....


If I am not mistaken, Jews also lived there, not just "palestinians." Or in what you describe as "phillistines." I am not quite sure about my history at the moment, but I think that the Assyrians, mesopotamians and the like were there before any "phillistine."

You are mistaken ....all of the above were occupiers.....on the coast line...the most ancient civilizations were the Phillistinioi(Greek....)in the south (palestine=Phillistine) Palestinians(latin) and the Phoenikioi..(Greek).....Punician...(Latin)....in the North (Punicia....the Punic wars etc., Carthrage was a colony of Phoenicia) .....the two civilizations battled each other extensevly, were weakened and conquered by the Assyrians (at first)....the Phoenicians being more apt sailors fled......the Phillistines lived under occupation and every so often revolted....

the jews were still a twinkle in the eye of Abraham(j/k).....when all this was going on.....


About making ignorant statements. Every people fought each other for land back then... Just because the Jews did also doesn't make them any worse than any other group of people.

....that's right....it doesn't make them any hollier either...and certainly doesn't make them just

In modern history, the Jews have turned that land of dirt on the med. sea into a modern, succesful state... They were able to irrigate the desert like no other people had.

Actually irrigation was a gift of the Egyptians to the world....they irrigated the dessert like no one else in the world....6,000 year prior to any "Israeli" state

Thank goodness they don't need to build statues to themselves like the Romans and the Christians or the Greeks, etc etc.

...there you go again with ignorance.....first off ...the Jews had a Temple to God which they turned by themselves into a market place prior to its final destruction......

second.......read about Greek and Roman art....before ...making such ignorant statements you will find that Greek art worships the ideal "human being" not itself.....and Roman.....well I can't really fault you ....Roman art was obsessed with its leaders...


Thank goodness they also don't need to put up paintings of their leaders all over town, or pictures of suicide bombers on the walls of the city.


.....yeah thank goodness they put up the picture of Sharon.......oh wait he's a leader and a mass murderer all wrapped into one package.....

Originally posted by Elder


In regards to your sticking up for twisted regimes, you start a conversation about Israel...



Because any discussion of the middle east can never be complete without mentioning Israel. Everything you say about the Palestinians (corruption, terrorism etc.) can be equally applied to Israel. End of story. Even the Israeli courts know this... Sharon has been charged with corruption, and was found guilty of mass slaughter from his time in the army.

Pointing out things such as this DOES NOT equate to supporting one regime or another. Things are not black and white.

Originally posted by Elder
http://www.pmw.org.il/

have fun


PLUS


Originally posted by Elder

And the "truth" on the internet... what a laugh. You have to sort through 10 times the lies and garbage to find one fact.


:confused:

Contradiction.

To the Greek Guy:

The Jews came into the land currently known as Isreal something like 1000 years before Christ. At the time the only people living there were pagan fertility cults; NOT the muslims that you say. Mohammad died in 632 AD, and his religion was spread after that quickly as far as Spain in the West and China in the East. The fertility cults of the Middle East were replaced with Islam (and also Juddaism before that); THAT is how Islam came to the land currently known as Isreal. If you want to get historic about it, the Jews have the right to the land as no direct descendants of the Early fertility cults exist today. I don't think we should go back that far though, and I think it's a no brainer that Isreal's founding was unfair.

To my best friend Davilton:

There is no proof that Kerry masturbated in coffins and worshiped owls as you seem to believe is 100% truth. Yeah, that seems believable. The United States has been controlled by Britian since it was founded? Is that why we invaded Canada and tried to take it from Britian in 1812? Dude honestly, you need to stop trusting complete morons and conspiracy theorists. I mean, come on dude, some of the stuff you've posted is the most idiotic stuff I've ever heard. Another example: The new metrosexual trend is due to females urinating into the water supply and their estrogen is going to everyone. Of course I'm sure that this is 100% true, but people like you and those who read that trash are completely immune to the effects and that's why you're so manly as opposed to the rest of the western world.

You educated yourself, that is probably the best arguement against educating oneself. And you made a crack at me for watching Fox News. Kid, I think it's pretty evident that I don't take it very seriously or conform to its agenda.

Also, there is definitely a lot of miseducation happening in the Middle East against Isreal and a lot of the hatred people have has been with them since they were 2. There is some brainwashing going on in nations such as Egypt and that's definitely true.

Originally posted by Nimreitz
To the Greek Guy:

The Jews came into the land currently known as Isreal something like 1000 years before Christ. At the time the only people living there were pagan fertility cults------------------>




the cults you are reffering to WERE THE RELIGIOUS PRACTICES OF THE ANCIENT PHILLISTINES (MODERN PALESTINIANS)...... of course I didn't mean that they were muslim............they became muslim when Islam overran the area 2500-3500 years later


The fertility cults of the Middle East were replaced with Islam (and also Juddaism before that); THAT is how Islam came to the land currently known as Isreal.


yup I agree.....in part....bc the phillistines kept their religious practices


If you want to get historic about it, the Jews have the right to the land as no direct descendants of the Early fertility cults exist today... ....


nope.........religion is separate from descent.......race and religion are not always linked....especially if reffering to history........

Unfortunately there are just as many of those ancient Phillistines who converted to Juddaism than there are who converted to Islam. And a lot of the current Palestines are direct descendants of Arabs, who have absolutely no ancient claim to the land, so your arguement is very flawed.

Originally posted by Nimreitz
Unfortunately there are just as many of those ancient Phillistines who converted to Juddaism than there are who converted to Islam. And a lot of the current Palestines are direct descendants of Arabs, who have absolutely no ancient claim to the land, so your arguement is very flawed.


true....some ....SOME palestinians..are Arab.....and Muslim.......this may come as a shock to you but the majority of Palestinians...are................................ ..ORTHODOX....... that's right they're Christians....in fact the MAJORITY are christians(60/40%)....

this is the common misconception in the west..

we see the street riots of the Muslims and we assume that all Palestinians are muslim...............nope............those christians are also the direct(diluted) decendants of the ancient Phillistinian tribe....... along with an unknown portion of the Muslims .......bc you see when the Arabs came into Palestine....as with the other areas they conquered .....they forced the masses into submission......The Eastern Roman Empire fought back for the right to Jerusalem......and the result is today's mixture of

Palestinian/Arab Muslims and Palestinian/Arab Christians.......


some ARE direct decendants some are not.....


of course people fail to admit this bc to some extent it change perseptions on how the situation is being handled.......

Yes, there are many Christians in that area to (although I'll admit to not knowing that SO many were Christian). The Islamic World has always been very accepting of other religions, allowing them to live in their states and only charging a small tax. I agree that the people living in pre-Isreal Palestine have the best claim to that land, but you are making a flawed connection that the Palestines of today are all proud descendants of the Phillistines who were kicked out by the Jews; this is completely wrong, and descendants of ancient dead civiliations have no claim to those lands. Palestinians, yes.

Originally posted by rhizome17
PLUS




:confused:

Contradiction.

I would agree with you in part, but images of television from the West Bank ae hard to refute. This brainwashing is widely known and really can't be argued.

Originally posted by rhizome17
Because any discussion of the middle east can never be complete without mentioning Israel. Everything you say about the Palestinians (corruption, terrorism etc.) can be equally applied to Israel. End of story. Even the Israeli courts know this... Sharon has been charged with corruption, and was found guilty of mass slaughter from his time in the army.

Pointing out things such as this DOES NOT equate to supporting one regime or another. Things are not black and white.

Sharon is a cocksucker for the most part. But the term "equally applied" is a far stretch. I'm sorry, but the stuff you see in the West Bank cannot be found in Israel.

Originally posted by Elder
I would agree with you in part, but images of television from the West Bank ae hard to refute. This brainwashing is widely known and really can't be argued.

There are many Muslim nations (and I think the north african ones are the worst) that feed anti-Jewish propaganda to their people, it's widespread and confirmed. I don't know why people argue with you when you say this.

Originally posted by Pontiakos
Originally posted by Elder


Thank goodness they don't need to build statues to themselves like the Romans and the Christians or the Greeks, etc etc.

...there you go again with ignorance.....first off ...the Jews had a Temple to God which they turned by themselves into a market place prior to its final destruction......

second.......read about Greek and Roman art....before ...making such ignorant statements you will find that Greek art worships the ideal "human being" not itself.....and Roman.....well I can't really fault you ....Roman art was obsessed with its leaders...




Thanks for the long reply. I just wanted to comment on the art... In the modern day, I don't see many Jews with pictures of Sharon around... The Jews really don't care about that stuff...

You are right about Greek art... namely scultpure. However, I have seen plenty of Greek scultpure depciting the heads of leaders, and things of this nature. They are EVERYWHERE. And the Romans just brought back the Greek style, added a little of their own, and bam! Statue hero worship.

Originally posted by Nimreitz
There are many Muslim nations (and I think the north african ones are the worst) that feed anti-Jewish propaganda to their people, it's widespread and confirmed. I don't know why people argue with you when you say this.

I think Rhizome is just pointing out that the website has a certain agenda. I agree with that, but the facts, not the opinion parts, of the website are hard to argue with. I've seen some of the cartoons run in Arab newspapers, and they looked like they were taken straight out of Hitler's Germany.

It's really crazy what is out there.

Originally posted by Nimreitz
but you are making a flawed connection that the Palestines of today are all proud descendants of the Phillistines who were kicked out by the Jews; this is completely wrong, and descendants of ancient dead civiliations have no claim to those lands. Palestinians, yes.


who told you that their civilization was dead...? They just lived under occupation.....civilizations don't die bc of an occupation....no matter how long that occupation is.....right now....the Coptic Orthodox are in a sense under Arab occupation in Egypt....yet they still are Orthodox and still maintain a cultural practice distinct from that of the Arab culture/language......they have been under Arab rule for over 1000 years.....is their civilization dead....no..........do they still claim Egypt as their home.....yes.....so one day if they decide to revolt against the Muslims will they not have a claim to the land.....yes......


there are many examples such as above that I could tell you about....


hell I could tell you about

the Greeks under the Turks

the Russians under the Mongolians....

etc...


and to hit more to home......


right now the African American population is oppressed in America....despite reforms.....


if sometime in the distant future they decide to revolt do they not have a right to the land their slave ancestors worked on for 400 years......

But the ancient phillistine civilization IS dead. Completely. I'm not talking about Christians, I'm talking about an ancient fertility cult who has the most ancient claim to the land currently known as Isreal. Since there isn't one member of the civilization left, and hasn't been one since like 800 AD at the most, the Jews are next in line for the most ancient claim to the land. That's all I'm saying.

Yeah Elder, a lot of it really does look straight out of Nazi Germany. I remember watching a video about anti-semitism in High School and a lot of it was just rediculous.

Originally posted by Nimreitz
But the ancient phillistine civilization IS dead. Completely. I'm not talking about Christians, I'm talking about an ancient fertility cult who has the most ancient claim to the land currently known as Isreal.



just because they changed religion that doesn't mean they are a different race.......it just means they are a different religion......

and as i said before the ancient fertility cult you are reffering to is the ancient religion of the Phillistine nation......this same nation converted to Christianity and some converted to Islam but both religions still co-exist...and the nation/race remains...

But there is no way to seperate those who were part of that ancient religion and converted to Juddaism and now identify with the Jews, and those who migrated from Arabia, and those who were Jews, but then converted to Christianity. There is NO way to determine who is an original member of that "nation"

Originally posted by Pontiakos
just because they changed religion that doesn't mean they are a different race.......it just means they are a different religion......

and as i said before the ancient fertility cult you are reffering to is the ancient religion of the Phillistine nation......this same nation converted to Christianity and some converted to Islam but both religions still co-exist...and the nation/race remains...

If you want to get really into it, the whole Israel - Palestinian conflict is built completely on religion. Regardless of how many Christians live in the area, it is the fanactics on both sides of the religious spectrum that drive this. And if you want to get into a "what relgiion came first" argument, of course the Muslims would lose hands down. I just wish they would realize they beleive just about everything the Jews believe and just get along.

They did get along for centuries......and then Isreal was founded.

Originally posted by Nimreitz
But there is no way to seperate those who were part of that ancient religion and converted to Juddaism and now identify with the Jews, and those who migrated from Arabia, and those who were Jews, but then converted to Christianity. There is NO way to determine who is an original member of that "nation"

Phillistines never converted to Judaism....judaism in its ancient form is not something you could convert into .....either you were born Jew or not....

hence during the Roman occupation the distinction between Jew and Gentile....


In Palastine Gentiles were ......well everyone who wasn't Jewish...

but the Phillistine tribe remained and has been noted in texts of the middle and late roman empire....such as Tacitus(early) and (a byzantine historian whose name escapes me right now) (late)....

when the muslims/Arabs entered....some Phillistines converted from Orthodox Christian to Muslim...............SOME DIDN'T.... those that remained Christian...can lay claim to the land....

Originally posted by Elder
If you want to get really into it, the whole Israel - Palestinian conflict is built completely on religion. Regardless of how many Christians live in the area, it is the fanactics on both sides of the religious spectrum that drive this. And if you want to get into a "what relgiion came first" argument, of course the Muslims would lose hands down. I just wish they would realize they beleive just about everything the Jews believe and just get along.


see my sig to understand what the conflict is built upon ....you said it earlier today.... not me......

That is the very very simple version, clearly there is more to it than that.