I never would have posted these kinds of messages up until recently but all the English League supporters do the same.

Can any of you name 8 teams that are as strong as AC Milan, Inter Milan, Juventus, Parma, Lazio, Florentina and AS Roma???

I mean if any player ever even got good enough he would be hauled down to Italy or Spain to complete his schooling in football. It's only a matter of time til stars like David Beckham, Paul Scholes, and Roy Keane make the move.

So as long as there are those that keep bashing the Serie A I will be there to back it right up.

Ok you named only 7 teams, so please put your number 8 teams here.

Also you go overboard in your comments which makes you seem not so knowledgeable as you think you are.

How bout this.... name 8 teams in the Italian League who plays attractive attacking football instead of scoring a goal and then packing themselves up in defence?

Rangers, Celtic, Leeds U, Sunderland, Man U, Arse, Liverpool, and Chelsea

The Serie A is a serious contender to the Premier but look at what has happened to Italy's national team, once the second best in Europe, all these imported stars has had a detrimental affect on their game. England have not been any good since Paul Gascoigne went into international exile thanks to Glenn hoddle. Man Utd as long as they remain Euro champions keep the premier as the top division but we all know they may lose that next year. Remember two Argentinians scored against them this week. go figure

Even though they use their defence after having a 1-0 lead,wouldnt you english people do the same so u can win .Another thing ,it proves that italian and maybe the spanish league have excellent defense compared to England.

If its lots of goals per game, then Spains the best. If its skill then Italian, if its fast, action football then its english (although Scotlands faster). I personally think that the Italian league is better, with better teams and better players but obviously your gonna enjoy the one you know / live most.

------

2-0 over Dortmund, Well Done RANGERS!!,

sglean Gazza never went into exile. All the coaches want him on their team but they know he can't control himself on the pitch and that he has a lot of alcohol problems. He's not the player he used to be. He's not even a starter at Middlesborough now.

Well said Gameaholic! And Italy82, no questions asked when u said the English defence is not as good as the Italians. But dun sway away from the topic. English are not tactically sound, hell they used to play long ball! But the fact remains that English League do have more entertainment, and as a soccer fan i watch it for entertainment, not bout learning more from Sven Goran Eriksson. Neither do i want to see Inzaghi(or some player from Fiorentina as i saw against Man Utd) diving as though the opposition fouled him bad. The only diving i can possibly see in the English League would come from Ginola, but they dun show Spurs week in and out! If given a choice, I would rather watch Watford vs Wimbledon rather than Lazio vs Juve.

I like both the Italian and English league, but there are more Italian players and players who used to play in Italy in the Premier League, then the other way around.

i think the english way to play footy is fine!! games that end 0-1 or so are soo damn boring!! i think there is nothing more enjoyable then seeing games end 2-2 or 3-3
...this would never happen if one team would stop playing after the 1-0!!!

Italy82, I'll take you up on your comment made on another post. You asked what league had the most players at wc 98, and you said Italy. Nope, sorry, I don't believe you. Where's your proof ?

I love the italian league, the English league and the Spanish league.
The only thing wrong with the English is they play far too many games. England will never win a major competiton again until they reduce the number of games they play in their domestic competition.

Serie A is the most boring league in europe except for maybe Norway.
The spanish league is most fun to watch, but the Premier League hasn't got any primadonnas(well, Ginola but...)and it's very tough compared to Serie A. The italians seem to have problems standing up when they get close to opponents.

Spanish league is a joke. I prefer Bundesliga then watch Valladolid - Sevilla.

The Italian Serie A has the best managers and best players, but the game is boring.

Premier League is improving, maybe in 5 years will have better players than Serie A. But the entertainment is there NOW.

I prefer Premier League.

JirQUEST,

You said:
"...name 8 teams in the Italian League who plays attractive attacking football instead of scoring a goal and then packing themselves up in defence?"

I'm not sure what you've been watching. So Serie A is this low-scoring, defence-first league, while the EPL is an exciting display if attacking football?

FACT:
Up to this weekend's matches, the EPL has averaged 2.82 goals per match. Serie A has averaged 2.56 gpm. That fact kind of undermines what you've said no?

The EPL may appear entertaining because the quality of players and tactics are not as high as that of Serie A. That translates into poorer-marking, more players out of position, and thus, more breakaways and mistakes. So while it appears to be more exciting, it is excitement born of error. Personally I'd rather watch the best defenders and strikers in the world clash and see who gets the best of whom, than a lot of sprinting around and mistakes which only translates into .26 goals more per game than that of Serie A.

[This message has been edited by Vexapor (edited 11-28-1999).]

good point made, but u have to remember u only took a week of matches. How bout a whole season tally? That way, it would be fair to compare then.
No doubt, tactics and qualities of players are higher than the English Premier League. But no, it does not mean that it is entertainment born out of error. It simply means Italians spend more time trying to perfect the tactics then trying to provide fans with entertainment. That is the major difference. We have to understand that Italians and English think differently when it comes to football. Besides, the Italians are not that patient when it comes to results. Maybe that is where the pressure to win comes in and thus, the heavy flow of tactics follow along.

Hmmm Why is it that more people world wide support the English Prem that the Sieri A and the Spanish Premira put together. Simple, because it`s better Football, and why is it that the english prem have so many imports and so little britttish players play overseas - because why leave home when the best league is right there. I admit that the imports are the better players - they obviously realise that england has the best league. So listen big italian and spanish fans how many non-brazillian players do you have that are better than any of: Bergkamp, Kanu, Vieira, Petit, Adams, Zola, Keane, Redknapp, Kewell, Beckham, Keane, Yorke, Cole, Stam, Giggs, Shearer, Ginola, Campbell, Di Canio.
Na Didn`t think so.

[This message has been edited by GOONERBHOY (edited 11-29-1999).]

Well I took a few minutes and figured out what the scoring averages were for EPL and Seria A in 98/99 season:

England: 957 goals in 380 games: 2.52 goal per game
Italy: 845 goals in 306 games : 2.76 goals per game
Are you surprised?

I think most of the people who are saying Italian League is boring are repeating the stuff that was true in the 60s or 70s. As a matter of fact Italian League is as attack minded as any in the world since AC Milan of late 80s revolutionized how football is played in Italy.

Why is English league so popular? It was the first league to be widely marketed around the world starting in the 60s, both with games on television, and by gambling. For example state ran lotto in Poland started English league betting in the 60s and it continues to this day.
And yes I do watch both leagues every week, up to 4 games from England(and for your information we do get saturday games here, one live and one on tape delay right after.)

English was better football in 70s and early 80s no question about it, and maybe one day will rise again to top spot.

Just remember the UEFA ranking of leagues: 1.Italy, 2. Germany 3.Spain 4.France 5.Holland 6.England 7.Portugal 8.Greece

Scoring is not the only think to football, I wnjoy seeing good defence and goalkeeping skills also. If goals is what you like, then I suggest that you go see an indoor soccer game ( I kind of like the indoor game myself but not as much as outdoor)

anyway, when you consider everything that there is to a football game, ( scoring, defending, goalkeeping, dribbling, passing, etc. then the Italian League is where its at

look Italian football is cool but how many non italians play in italy?Just look at your national team with all italians.NOT SO GOOD.And what about spanish teams? Take Barca,and their 8 dutch players???????

Italian League is the best and English is crap compared to it. The English Prem get the players from Italy that are ageing.

eg Deschamps(still good but not as gid as he used to be)

Zola(probably playin at his best but still not gid enough for Italian National side)
How many teams challenge for Italian Serie A?
Loads

How many have chance of winning English Prem?
prob.3

And The Italian teams nearly always beat the English ones.

Heres a diver whos English

Michael Owen

And Beckham

Vexapor - If Polishpowers calculations are correct, and I think they are, then what's your point ? That Serie a has better attackers ( but not great defenders ) ? Okay, but then Prem league has better defenders( and not such great attackers ), right ? NO, that means absolutely nothing.
And I've gotta go with Goonerbhoy, The premier league is watched by more than the Italian or spanish leagues. In my country we had English(2-3), german(1) and Italian(1) matches every week, as well as highlight packages of all three. That was three years ago. Now we have Bundesliga highlights, Italian highlights, 3-4 premiership games, sometimes up to 2 nationwide division 1 matches and two highlight packages. Strange isn't it !!
Mase - And how old exactly was Kanu when he came to highbury ? 35 ? 40 ? And Patrick Vieira ? And Dennis Bergkamp ? Bah, I laugh in your face at your old and ageing comment. And before I hear the typical reply ( they weren't good enough or that the prem league is easier ), all three these players are current internationals, so does this mean the international scene is crap too ??
How many teams challenging for English league - Leeds, Arsenal, Man utd, Chelsea, Liverpool, Spurs.
And I'm glad you could name two divers that are English, cause quite frankly I can only name two Italians that aren't - Zola and Peruzzi. Okay, not really, but if can be ridiculous so can I.

Canoe,
My point was, that Serie A has the best strikers and defenders in the world, and that the average amount of goals scored per match is not all that different than that of the EPL. I said that to rebuff the argument that the EPL is more exciting because it's more offensive and higher scoring- because the statistics don't show all that much of a difference. And there hasn't been for a few years now.

My point about the goal averages is that some make it seem that every game in Italy is 1-0 and every game in England is 3-2, but the statistics just don't show that to be true. I also agree that scoring averages don't mean football is good, for example some of the lesser leagues have averages of over 3 goals per game but surely you would not say it was better or more exciting football.

There was a question about which league has better players, I went back and took a look at France Football ballot(50 players total) for European footballer of the year for 1998, (all players who play league football in Europe are eligible)and broke it down by leagues(players who moved since last year I put in their current league, for ex. Suker to Arsenal), here are the results:

Italy:22 out of 50 players
Zidane, Ronaldo, Batistuta, Thuram, Davids, Blanc, Del Piero, Mijatovic, Bierhoff, Vieri, R. Baggio, Boban, Cannavaro, F. Inzaghi, Nakata, Nedved, Ortega, Pagliuca, Salas, Szevczenko, Veron, Zamorano

England 11 out of 50
Suker, Owen, Bergkamp, Desailly, Petit, Deschamp, Overmars, Beckham, Adams, TA Flo, Seaman

Spain: 11 of 50
Rivaldo, F. de Boer, Roberto Carlos, R. de Boer, Raul, Seedorf, Hierro, Luis Enrique, Denilson, A. Ilie, Jarni

Rest of the players were Lizerazu, Barthez, B. and M. Laudrup, Machlas, and Oliseh.

Here in Australia we get 1 Spanish game 1 italian game (non of which are live)per week. In comparison to 3 live english games and 2 separate highlight shows, just shows you what the best football to watch is.

My problem with Italian and Spainish football is all of the diving. It REALLY takes away from the game. Not to say that there is not diving in every other league-- there just seems to be more in Italy and Spain than in England or Scotland.

This topic is obviously tired, so all you geeks stop doing so much "research" and do some freakin' school work...Polish Power: You obviously have WAAAYY too much free time mate. Get a girlfriend or mix in some exercise. Mase: Why the hell should I listen to the football opions of someone named after the worst rapper in the history of the rap game. You weak takes need not be posted here so go F**K off and listen to your Puffy Forever CD or Record or whatever the hell you listen to in your 3rd world nation...OUT

How can u all say the England League has better players.The Italian league destroys the EPL when it comes to great players.
Ronaldo,Batistuta,Salas,Zamorano,Veron,Simeone,Inz aghi,Del Piero,Zidane,Davids,Van der sar,Delvecchio,Totti,Cafu,Nesta,Conceicao,Fuser,Cr espo,Cannavaro,Sensini,Nakata,Signori,Boksic,Mihai lovic ...The list goes on ...You English should wake up .I find defensive football is much more greater ,its funny watching the English teams getting frustraded with the Italian defensive tactics.Its also fun watching the dives .Remember ,win at all cost .I guess the English is stupid to figure that out.You English people keep saying how Man Utd. Won last years CL,but remember Parma won Uefa and Lazio won the winners cup,so thats 2 out of 3.

Why put the Italian League down by leveling it with the utter sh1te that is the spanish premera. Brittish football is still miles better though.

Premier League better than Serie A? Man U got eliminated every year for nearly five years in the Champion's League until last.

Juventus made it to the final three years in a row, but won just once.

During Paolo Maldini's career with AC Milan, they won the European Cup six times.

And those who say the Primera Liga is crap should look at some recent results from the UEFA Cup-Celta's 7-0 hammering of Benfica, and Mallorca's good 1-0 win over Ajax, in Amsterdam, to boot.

I think Man utd winning the treble speeks for itself. Engish football is fine. Its not as boring as Italy plus our players are not durty bastards. Not saying anything like Italy league is durty. Just there past international teams

Italy82, would you stop it NOW !! How can u say that those players are better than others or great ? What do you use a measurement ? If you look at performances in the wc98, then at least half your list is missing if not more. If your judging it on Serie A games then you can merely say they're good in serie A. And if you really do appreciate defensive football you would really have loved Arsenal's 'least goals scored against' record of last season.
And I can't believe my eyes, an italian supporter finally admitting that they do dive and that the fans enjoy it. Unfortunately I've never seen diving taught anywhere ( cept maybe Italy ? ), it's not present it coaching manuals, never seen a coaching video with it in, it must then probably be a skill of that these great players poses.

WHO SAW REAL V CELTA VIGO?

I did, not because i like spanish football but because i love football in general. I was very impressed By Karembeau (sorry if the spelling a bit off) what a hard working tough defender. Seedorf had a good one as always, and Celta`s Left wing back (can`t remember his name, he has bleached hair) he had the best defencive game i`ve seen by an individual for some time but then he goes and ruins it with a series of Dives (charicteristic of the Premira) it really reminded me what a great football the Brit`s play in comparison.

I must say that in europe it is proven that italian and spanish clubs are better teams but the Leagues suck. Brittish leagues (Scottish & English) both play more entertaining football.

I saw Real - Celta Vigo. It was not a great game except for the fact that Real lost once again.

By the way, diving is a taught skill and not only in Italy, if they don't teach it in England their coaches are more naive than I thought. Reason you don't see it in manuals on coaching is the same reason you don't see doping prescriptions for optimum stamina in these books. These are soccers dirty little secrets...

Also the new France Football ballot for player of the year just came out,
this year the nominees include: 18 players from Italian, 13 from English, 9 from Spanish, 4 from German, 2 each from Portuguese and French, 1 from Greek and Ukrainian leagues.

[This message has been edited by PolishPower (edited 12-03-1999).]

[This message has been edited by PolishPower (edited 12-03-1999).]

Polish Power,
Where can i view the players?

I realize that diving is a taught skill, it can be the difference between winning and losing. But i know i wouldn`t like to see my Celtic win their games by Diving is is cheating and is destroying football.
The Player i was talking about was Juanfran he actually played a blinder excluding the dives.

I prefer to watch English Premiere League because it is played at a much faster pace and has higher scorelines.