the brazilian national side has obviously have not been playing great soccer. france has and is playing great soccer. they obviously deserve to be number 1. SO the brazilians win one game against argentina, they dont deserve it

Because the world rankings incorporate winning of tournaments throughout time. Is that easy enough to understand, they really hold no relevance as to who is the best team in the world.

i just want others opinions, i dont need you to state the obvious

Jeez, don't bite the guy's head off!

Listen, Brasil is the best because in must win games i.e. Argentina they got the players that can win games.

Sure France did good at Euro 2000 but Brasil wasnt their. And people still see France as not beating Brasil and rather Brasil beating themselves in 1998.

Juninio

the fact is France BEAT Brazil

brazil didnt beat themselves......

France beat brazil

the only reason why brazil lost the final against France was because france played at home i'm sure if they meet again Brazil will win sure france has quality players like
Zinedine Zidane, Thierry Henry, Robert Pires, David Trezeguet, but brazil has more quality players then every other team in the world

Man ,you guys dont accept the defeat ,dont you?Geez you lost to France ,bottom line .No excuses for that .No matter where the hell you play or what stadium ,a team still has to perform in order to beat the home team .

no kidding
i watched the game france deserved to win,
brazil didnt beat themselves, i agree with paolo, accept the fact that france beat brazil

"The Italian National side made it farther than anybody expected. Everbody was against them except for the Italian fans. They proved that they deserved to be in the final. And they should have won the final. Italy controlled the game showing an early attack but the half dragged on. In the second it all opened up Italy pressed and Totti's cross is finished by Delvecchio. The half carries on and Del Piero who get subbed on has two glorious chances but failed to finish. Note he just came off injury and if had been the same Del Piero that had been playing the year before he would have finished them both. But no excuses he missed them both. But one question that I bet every Italian asked, where did the 4 minutes come from. Well, it was a very lucky goal, Toldo deserved to get it. But in extra time, Trezeguet's strike was nice, but Italy lost it. Delvecchio should have stayed on, and Albertini should have cleared the ball instead of passing it. Well Italy had it but lost it and France didnt win it."

Italy82 I will accept only if accept that Italy didnt deserve to get to Euro finals.

how could you say that Italy didnt deserve to be in the final. just because holland cant shoot doesnt mean that italy is lucky and didnt deserve to be in the final, that just show holland are unlucky and cant shoot they beat holland because of course they have a great defence, toldo is a great goalie and they absolutely played better even with a man down. if zambrotta didnt get the red italy would have won that game in 90 minutes

[This message has been edited by Italia#1 (edited 08-10-2000).]

FIFA World Rankings suck - NUFF SAID!

It's all Coca-Cola's doing. However they sponsor is the main atraction. Saim happend with the Olympic games that were awarded to Atlanta. Thay sponsor brazil, so their the best.

Who sponsors who?
Nike sponsors Brazil
Kappa sponsors Italy
are there any more?

Pablo you dumb **** i said that Brasil is ranked higher because more people think that regardless of a loss a team is still better.

Hey idiots if Perugia beats Juventus in one match which team should be ranked higher? Thats why Brasil is ranked higher.

I know France deserved to beat Brasil. But this you dummies asked why is Brasil still number one.

And except for you few Italian's still crying from 1994 the majority of neutral people still see Brasil as a better team. They still see France having won at home in one game.

While Brasil beat Argentina in Copa America and they are ranked number three France only had to beat a poor Italian team which has not preformed well since Bulgaria 1994.

Thats why Brasil is still ranked number one because over 100 international coaches around the world would not wanna face the yellow with the 11 best ready to go. France on the other hand have had a great pair of games against brasil and italy.

However many feel that next time should each side meet Brasil and France the result will be different.

juninhio, you have to pull your head out of your ass and realize that brazil doesnt deserve #1, france does. put aside your biasest towards brazil and wake up. first yeah brazil did beat argentina but argentina is right now the better team. and france didnt beat a lousy italian side, they beat a great team that deserved to win, and again i say that france didnt win euro, italy lost it, besides that your comparison is extremely wild. how could you make brazil = juventus and france =perugia. it should be brazil = juventus and france = lazio, lazio won the italian cup and the serie a league, juventus hasnt won anything. france deserves to be #1. you have to put aside your bias and accept the fact that brazil should be #2 or #3. im italian and i have accepted the fact that italy is 6th in the world but should be higher. so save your breathe and stop sticking up for brazil that doesnt deserve to be #1

Italia you dumb **** I dont make the damn ranks professionals do. And they agree with my view that Brasil had a bad day 2 years ago and that the ranks are not based solely on one match but rather on team's players and their ability.

Look at bookmakers who stand to lose million if the quote odds wrong. They already have Brasil Argentina as 1 2 to win the world cup france is 3 and England 4.

here here Juninhio, i concur with ur view.
Brasil is #1
others need to stop crying about that

England is fourth favorite? [scratches head] I think they shall indeed lose millions.

-dsh

Wat do u mean 'theyll lose millions!??! There are SOOOOOOO many youngsters who are coming thru which will kick Argentina's ASSSSSS!!! Ill name a few:
Jermainne Pennant, Ashley Cole, Joe Cole, Rio Ferdinand, Michael Owen, G Barret (dunno his first name or how 2 spell last name) and loads more!!

------------------
copyright
Matthew Davids

Eh...if you say so...I haven't got much faith in the English team these days regardless.

[the brazilian national side has obviously have not been playing great soccer]

Yes, I guess that Brasil just isn't great because they haven't decided to stick 10 players in the box during an entire game. Damn, they should really stop attacking and play ultra-defensively from now on so they can match up to those incredible Italians.
Their strikers should also stop shooting on goal and miss the best opportunities that may be given to them. Then, and ONLY then will they become truly number one !

[i just want others opinions, i dont need you to state the obvious]

Well buddy, you should be speaking for yourself, especially since you 'already knew' that the world rankings are based on point accumulations for past tournaments and matches won. The FIFA/COCA-COLA World Rankings are not accurate on terms of actual skill, but consistency and frequency in obtaining victories. But I'm sure you had already realized that.

[Man ,you guys dont accept the defeat ,dont you?Geez you lost to France ,bottom line]

Yeah, same goes for you. Tell your Italian bosom buddies the same, if you're going to tell the Brasilian supporters that they cannot offer their opinion on their team's loss. After all the posts and excuses you have given for your own team, they are entitled to the same. Isn't it funny how there are double standards here in this forum ? No, the Brasilians cannot say that they shouldn't have lost that game, but the Italians can sure as hell say what they want about their own losses. That's cute, but that's not the way it works.

Juninhio:

Don't even worry about what they have to say. FIFA determines who's best, not Paolo_Rossi or Italia#1. Look at it this way, at least they're not complaining about their own team being at #1. They have the maturity to recognize that their own team doesn't deserve to be up there yet.

I can't wait until World Cup 2002, where all of you bitter punks (And I mean everyone who is fighting about who is best)will get your chance to see who's the best in the world. I root for my home team always, but I'm open-minded and accept that other teams may perform incredibly great. Brasil will be one of these, Portugal, France, Argentina, Mexico, Chile, England, and possibly a new Germany will arise to show all who really is the best. Until then, France is #1 in skill, Brasil is #1 in accomplishment.

TeKNoS

Juninho- betting lines are a pretty good indicator of how the betting is going, but sometimes not so good as to actual quality. So that is why England might be 4th favorite. If the bookie is based in England he will get a lot of bets on England to win the cup so therefore you'd expect the odds on England to be better than they would be if rated objectively.

Another example: in Las Vegas odds on New York and LA area teams are usually inflated because those teams have many supporters who will bet on them to win no matter what their actuall quality is.

Also don't worry the sport books have the odds figured out that no matter what happens they never lose money in the long run.

hehe
well said TeKNoS

i still rate Brasil as #1 for skill tho
i base this on: if France and Brasil were to field their best teams tomorrow in a neutral ground.. Brasil woud win. In my humble opinion. So France beat a 2nd-rate Brasil side at home.. if they consistently beat Brasil , thats another story - but that is not the case http://www.soccergaming.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

Brazil no. 1 ,hahahahahaha .Odds of winning the world cup doesnt mean **** ,look at WC 98 ,Brazil were favorites and they didnt win ,in 94 italy were 4th favorites and they reached the finals .France will kick Brazil's ass like they did in 98 .It seems that everyone that aint brazilian agree that they shouldnt be first ,I wonder why ?Cause you Brazilians think that you can beat anyone very easily and win each tournament easily .Thanks god ,France kicked their ass ,cause it shut their mouth instead of yelling that they are number one and stuff .

Really, everyone besides Brasilians think France are no 1?? I guess the entire group that ranks teams are all Brasilian. So are all the international coaches that decide who should be ranked what.

Face it players like Roberto Carlos Rivaldo Emerson etc are better than crap Italy could ever produce. Thats why you Italians always cry about Brasil.

I never met a non Italian who didn't hate Brasil. I guess you still think we hurt you too bad in 1994.

Oh well our defense was much superior in 1994 along with our attach.


Pablo, fact Brasil made it to the finals 2 times in a row. Has Italy even scored more than 2 goals ever in a game?

Face it man fans of soccer love Brasil and all of the Brasil fans along with neutrals realize that Brasil could beat the hell out of Italy with a under 23 side.

Sorry but I need to see France win somewhere else besides france before they become no 1.

I mean come on they missed the previous 2 world cups. Lets see what happens in 2002. Brasil odds on to win it. Italy?? Maybe second stage?

[and stuff.]

I think the appropiate expression that should follow that comment should be DUH !!!

I can't believe how utterly immature and stupid you are. You have posted for months and months just because some people on this forum believe their team to be number one. I don't really see why that bothers me so much. Anyone could walk up to me on the street and say, "Hey, your team sucks, mine is number one !" and I would just shrug and walk away without thinking twice about it.

France will kick Brasil's ass. Hmmm, I guess you've already deemed yourself as a prophet. France is a great team, without a doubt, but I don't know how you can keep saying such foolish things as "Brasil sucks," when they've won 4 World Cups and provide many more players to more foreign sides than any other nation in the world. You even go so far as posting about why the FIFA rankings still rank them as number one, as if that "bothers" you or something.

You also say that you never provided excuses for your own team's losses against France, but as I remember, at the end of Euro 2000 that sums up pretty much all of what you did. You posted numerous comments about how Italy deserved to win, and how ultra-defensive tactics such as sticking 10 players in the penalty box are much more superior to other strategies around the world.

I really have no idea what you have against Brasilian supporters, but it's getting lame. Just stop the crap here, and so will the rest. Ask Juninhio and the others to stop posting about the same and I'm sure he'll want to stop too. In your mind Brasil sucks, but in the minds of millions around the world, they are still one of the top football nations. Accept that and so will everyone else about the fact that France and Italy are also top nations. Enough is enough.

TeKNoS

BTW, I am not Brasilian

Whats your point of Italy putting 10 men in the box ?At least they are succesfull at it .And why do u bring the 1994 world cup finals .Thas over 6 years ago ,its like saying hahaha ,Italy beat Brazil in 1982 ,both are a long time ago and i still have the 1982 tape where they beat Brazil and the way that Paolo Rossi manhandled Brazil all by himself .So i dont give a crap about 94 ,and you say Brazil had a good defense ,but Italy didnt even attacked so how can you say brazil\'s defense was solid when Italy never tried to score .You should say instead how Italy stopped Brazil's attack .I know what you are going to say ,that brazil had chances ,big deal ,they couldnt convert on them just like Holland .I can see it now ,World cup 2002 finals ,Italy vs Brazil ,Italy puts everyone behind in the box ,despite Brazil's attack ,most shots go wide or Straight at the goalkeeper .Toldo is unstoppable ,nobody can score on him and the penalty shots ,Toldo does the exact thing that he did against Holland and stop most of Brazil's shot cause of his big height ,something pagliuca never had with italy in the past .

"We all know u over-rate Italy
and under-rate Brasil"

And we all know that you overrate Brazil and underrate Italy.
Enough of this stupid argument, all right?

You patethic Italians who hate Brasil have no reason to cry. Professionals rank the teams and have ranked Brasil 1st.

Man you guys must really hate Brasil to want even France to be above them. I mean they ****ed you guys hard 2 times deservingly.

And yes Brasil's defense was superior to Italy's in 1994. We didnt lose any games like Italy and had only 2 goals against us in the whole tournement. A record.

Its the first time the best attacking team was the best defense team. And by 2002 our defenders will be world class again to complement our superior attack.

You just don't get it, do you?
We don't hate Brazil, we just have a problem with people with an attitude like yours (I'm not even Italian btw, I just really love Italy and Italian football).

What the hell is your problem? Can't you accept the fact that France is the best team in the world right now? As you well know, but refuse to admit, Brazil is not ranked 1st because "professionals understand they have the best team", but because they've had the most success internationally than any other team. The FIFA rankings are screwed up, and you know it. Come on, everybody admits, why can't you? France has the best team in the world, and they've consistently shown it over the past 2 years. That's why they're World and European champions.
I'm not saying Brazil sucks. Of course not. They're just not better than France.

And what is you problem with Italian fans? We all see how blindly you follow Brazil. Why can't you have respect for people who do the same for their own country?
We support the Italian team because they play their hearts out in every game, and have been doing so for years. It hurts us to see that all that hard work still hasn't paid off. They've been getting screwed at penalties in the past 3 World Cups, and now the EURO2000 disappointment just adds to that long list. In 94, they held off a clearly superior Brazilian side for 120 minutes, even with an injured Roberto Baggio who had carried them single-handedly to the final, only to lose at penalties. In 98, the same deal, losing at penalties to the future world champions. And now the way they lost EURO2000. See what I'm getting at? They deserve to finally win something. That's why we support them so much. Why do you have a problem with that?

Who says that im jealous of Brazil ?Brazil is a good football team ,but its people like you who i dont like .You guys never accept defeat and always try to find excuses ,Junhinio keeps talking about the 1994 world cup ,wich is a very long time ago and how Brazil were unfit in the world cup 98 wich is the dumbest excuse ,Brazil did not have a good 98 world cup ,they lost to Norway ,they battled a hard victory over Denmark ,a game where the Laudrup brothers almost did the impossible .Holland were also a very worthy opponent that also could of beatten brazil if only they knew how to take penalties and France,nuff said .Im not trying to say Brazil sucks ,but you fans always insult every country including Italy .
The most stupidest argument has to be Junhinio when he says that Italyt play defensive football and that they deserve to lose becuase they play defensive .How stupid is that ,first of all ,who said that playing defense is a crime .Italy was the first team to play very defensively in the 1930's wich brought them 2 world cups ,they are the masters of keeping a 1-0 lead in their side and have the most succesfull rate at it .I agree that Brazil have a good side ,but when you start dissing italy saying that they dont deserve to beat holland and other crap like that ,it proves how stupid you are .Do u know how Italy battled hard against Holland ?Did you see how tired the italian players were ?Did you see all the efforts they put out so that they can go to penalty shots ?Did u ever see a 32 year old defensemen last 120 minutes before ?Did you also see Italy's statistical shooting record ?They had scored 1 goal per every 3 shots .something Holand or even France cant even match up to .Instead of dissing their tactics ,you should applaud for the effort they give each game ,they fight hard for a win ,but usually they get the job done .

I love how Brasil being number 1 seems to be some in justice to you Italians. Its like it really effects you.

Here is my question how is Italy in the top ten?? They beat one team of decent standing in 2 years - Netherlands. On penalties.

Wow victory against Belgium, (after losing a game), Turkey what a history they got (and all it took was a dive), oh wait Romania and their senior citizens who were down 10 men. Sweden who were all but out. Such a great team really deserving of the top 10.


I mean you guys must really hate Brasil to start these kind of threads. I dont cry about Brasil's loss in 1982 why do you still hate brasil for what we did to you in 1994?

How does it bother you?? I'll say it again I dont rank Brasil Professionals do and in 2 years Brasil lost only 1 time to a world power France. In a game held in france when THE POPULAR CONSENSUS is that Brasil were below their best that day and france was at their best.

Another thing ,to answer your question ,I dont hate Brazil ,but I dont like them either ,they are neutral to me .

Lets see countries Brasil has had to play in tournements within the last 2 years:

Holland Argentina

Countries Italy has had to play
Holland

Man you guys are pathetic. What difference is it to you if Brasil is ranked one. How does it bother you. In my opinions there is no need for rankings because they only sprout you fools who will always critisize them.

In the last two world cups brasil one one and made it to the finals once.

In the last two copa americas brasil won both.

Thats 3 out of 4 tournements. Thats why they are ranked 1.

Get over it.

Junhinio ,whats your point ?So Brazil played one good team more than Italy ,so what does that have to do with anything ?I dont know why you are always trying to find something like this stupid argument .What do u want Italy to do ,ask fifa to give them all the best teams in the same group for the WC qualifyers ?All these things come in random .

Paolo_Rossi:

The point he's trying to make is:

Don't undermine Brasil's skills and accomplishments on basis of your own personal bias against that nation. The teams Brasil has to play are far superior to the teams that Italy and France has had to play recently. Therefore, they are still and will be a top footballing nation, whether you like it or not.

And about the FIFA scheduling thing...shut the f*ck up. That was just plain stupid. Nuff said.

TeKNoS

paolo u sound like a 10 year old kid

in other words
try growing up a little
we all know u over-rate Italy
and under-rate Brasil

Teknos ,how do u know that Brazil is superior to Italy or France ?You can say all the statistics you want ,but you have no proof .

Paolo_Rossi:

But it doesn't matter how close Italy came to winning; they didn't, and France won. Fair and simple, that's it. No excuses, no stupid crap about how Italy 'shut' them out or anything. France won, Trezeguet and Wiltord scored. That's it. Nothing more. Boo hoo.

And what are you talking about ?
[Teknos ,how do u know that Brazil is superior to Italy or France ?]

Look at what I posted:
[The teams Brasil has to play are far superior to the teams that Italy and France has had to play recently. Therefore, they are still and will be a top footballing nation, whether you like it or not.]

Where did I talk about Brasil being better than France or Italy ? I simply said Brasil has had to play more difficult teams in the past 2 years/recently. Read carefully before making senseless accusations.

And about proof ? Well, Brasil has 4 World Cups to their name, they ship more players out to foreign nations (including ITALY, who must see some kind of value in them, since they poach them often), they have just won the Copa America recently, they reached the World Cup final in 1998, etc.

That there is enough to prove that Brasil is one of the best nations in the world of footballing. And the way it looks, even Italian teams seem to think the same. :0)

TeKNoS

=0]

Teknos ,prove to me to me that Brazil is superior .The fact that they have 4 world cups is useless as proof cause both Germany and italy needs to win one and it will be all square .If im right most brazilian players adopt the italian style because they play in Serie A ,so it would mean that both team know each other and are pratically equal .

you know, i think that brazil is a great team and deserve to be in the top 3, but rihgt now they dont deserve #1. you say that brazil had a bad day against france, well if your the best team in the world, you shouldnt have a bad game. and lately i havent seen france play a bad game. oh but you will say every team has a bad game. so when they lost to paraguay, let me guess they had a bad game

oh yah, one more thing, i think edmundo said that he thinks that brazil is still #1 at skill, i would agree with him there

For the past month I've been trying to tell people that Brasil may not be THE best, but ONE of the THE best. It's pointless, since Paolo_Rossi and Juninhio keep going at it as to who is better and who sucks, and what nation will never make it anywhere, and saying stupid crap such as "WORLD CUPS AREN'T PROOF OF ACCOMPLISHMENT or SUPERIORITY to other teams." Aniother stupid thing he said was also that "a team that is the best is a team that never loses." WTF >??? That's insane, and obviously his brain wasn't involved in that one.

From now on I will disregard Italy's World Cup wins, since Paolo_Rossi has convinced me that World Cups really don't mean a thing. I guess France isn't really the best then, since they won recently. Hell I guess their Euro trophy is also useless, since it doesn't mean a thing. Maybe now you see how utterly STUPID it is to say that a World Cup isn't the ultimate proof of skill and accomplishment or superiority to other nations.

All teams have their ups and downs, and they cannot always be the best. Brasil is still and should always be considered a top football nation, the same with other nations that have won the World Cup in the past. I still consider Uruguay one of the best, even if they DID win a long time ago. It doesn't matter, they have proven themselves at the world stage. A biased idiot's opinion doesn't count there.

Teams also recover, even if it takes a long time. Some teams go under a long period of transition and development, until they find a successful style and discover good players. Uruguay is a perfect example, as they are resurging in the spotlight. Anyway, I'm tired of typing. I know Paolo_Rossi will just answer with something stupid and talk about putting sticks up his ass and telling me to do the same.

For the Brasilian supporters, and the Italians, please read this and think twice before posting against another nation please. It's getting old.

TeKNoS

Teknos ,you have to stop defending Junhinio cause he always start these stupid argument .I never once said Brazil sucked ,I never said Brazil should be in last place in the ranking ,but on the other Junhinio keeps dissing the italian national team ,and calling them crap and how they didnt deserve to go in the final .Instead of pointing the finger to me ,you should point it at Junhinio .

Um pablo who posted this thread?? An Italian. Who posted how "Italy lost the match France didnt win" Italian.

You guys start it now im going to finish it.

First of all ,it was italia no.1's oppinion and not mine or any other italian guy in this forum ,so stop accusing every italian .

I just gotta jump into this arguement.

1st off FIFA rankings are not made by any expert panel, they are made by a mathemathical formula. So stop saying there is some kind of consensus around the world Brasil is no 1.

Also didn't Brasil lose to Paraguay last month? In a World Cup qualifier? Didn't they lose to Mexico last year? Split the home and away series with Argentina last year? So yes Brasil does lose games...

Also this theory about how they didn't play their best in the final, the whole World Cup98 their didnt play their best! So if you consistenetly play not your best maybe you're just not as good as you think you are?

And finally I dont have a problem if you say Brasil is ONE of the best teams, but when you say they are THE best that tends to piss a lot of people off. They lost the World Cup(and lost it convincingly!), they have no bragging rights!

yes i did post that france italy thing, just wanting to get others opinions but it is paolo and juninhio who started the rest of the war on words, dont bring me into this

yes i did post that france italy thing, just wanting to get others opinions but it is paolo and juninhio who started the rest of the war on words, dont bring me into this and every italian who sticks up for their country

I might have missed something, but I never knew Italians and Brazilians hated each other so much. Where talking England Vs Argentina hate here...

italians dont hate brazilians, i just cant stand cocky ones like juninhio.

If your talkin about 98, at Le Tornoi Brazil, Italy, England, and France played a tournament.
Italy 3-3 Brazil
both of your defenses are crap and both of ur attackers are good.


END OF STORY!!!!

Italia#1:

What I am pissed about is that YOU like to say that Italy deserves to win all the time, and that Euro 2000 wasn't won by France, but lost by Italy (which wasn't the case since Trezeguet and Wiltord wailed on Italy with two goals in good time), but you don't like it when people say that about Brasil. You and Paolo_Rossi refuse to believe that Brasil NEVER has a bad day, but YOUR national team does. It's a bunch of sh|t if you ask me, and I hate double standards. You need to grow up, and just like Paolo_Rossi said to the Brasilian supporters: Grow up and accept the fact that you lost to France.

TeKNoS

No cynicism intended here, but I just wanted some of you here to realize how much Brasilian players really are valued by Italian clubs. Just check out the lineup for Brasil's qualifier against Chile coming up, and their respective clubs:

Goalkeepers: Dida (AC Milan), Rogerio Ceni (Sao Paulo)

Defenders: Cafu (Roma), Evanilson (Borussia Dortmund), Beletti (Sao Paulo), Roberto Carlos (Real Madrid), Junior (Parma), Antonio Carlos (Roma), Roque Junior (Milan), Edmilson (Sao Paulo), Fabio Bilica (Venezia).

Midfielders: Emerson Ferreira (Roma), Djalminha (La Coruna), Marcos Assuncao (Roma), Alex (Parma), Rivaldo (Barcelona), Marcos Paulo (Cruzeiro), Ricardinho (Corinthians).

Forwards: Amoroso (Parma), Marques (Atletico Mineiro), Luizao (Corinthians)

Source: http://sports.yahoo.com/soccer/world

From what I see, a good number of Brasilian players are playing on Italian clubs there...Interesting isn't it ? I guess they're really NOT THAT BAD, huh ?

TeKNoS

What I am pissed about is that YOU like to say that Italy deserves to win all the time, and that Euro 2000 wasn't won by France, but lost by Italy (which wasn't the case since Trezeguet and Wiltord wailed on Italy with two goals in good time), but you don't like it when people say that about Brasil. You and Paolo_Rossi refuse to believe that Brasil NEVER has a bad day, but YOUR national team does. It's a bunch of sh|t if you ask me, and I hate double standards. You need to grow up, and just like Paolo_Rossi said to the Brasilian supporters: Grow up and accept the fact that you lost to France.

TeKNoS

My same sentiments. Brasil cant have a bad day Italy has a bad day every day.

And they deserved to lose in extra time. I watched the final again last night and at about the 80 min mark their players started diving acting hurt. When totti is subbed he walked like he had no life. They were fully deserving of the loss.

Teknos ,what is your point of posting the brazilian national team ?I know they are good ,but have you noticed Italy has a good one with the new head coach of Giovanni Trappatoni.So Brazil have many players playing in Serie A ,so does Italy and all of them are regular starters .Here is the probable formation against Hungary for qualifyers.

Gk:F.Toldo(Fiorentina)
Defense:P.Maldini(Milan),A.Nesta(Lazio),F.Cannavar o(Parma),M.Iuliano(Juventus)
Midfield:F.Totti(Roma),G.Zambrotta(Juventus),S.Fio re(Udinese),D.Albertini(Milan)
Strikers:C.VIERI(Inter),A.Del Piero(Juventus)/M.Delvecchio(Roma)

Just the defense can prevent anyone from scoring ,3 out of 4 italian defensemen were in the euro2000 dream team plus Toldo ,Toldo is so big ,he can cover many angles and stop penalty shots unlike Pagliuca .And what about Vieri ,the man that Italy missed most ,this guy has the finishing in the world ,he may not have skills but he has tremendous shot power and accuracy .

We know Italy is good

"We dont post messages like Why is Italy in the top ten. They dont deserve it"

My favorite club is Inter Milan since the days of the German threesome Brehme Klinssman Matthaus.

Were just sick of people posting why Brasil is ranked so high as if there is no reason they deserve respect.

I mean look at the idiot that started this thread's name Italia#1.

Gee I wonder what he's trying to say with that handle. Yet I never say "HEY Italy is not number one change your handle"

Why the hell do you guys want Fifa to change their ranking system, man you must really really hate Brasil.

Junhinio ,Italia1 is entitled of his opinion ,but what he says does not reflect all italian people .

i admit that Italian's are very passionate about futebol, thats y their league has the most money in it - then they buy top international players to play in their league ...like Zidane , Ronaldo too many to mention..
It is now the stongest league in the world.. cos of all the international players it - and the way the italian's play "gotta win - no matter how ugly" means that it is the stongest leaue in da world.
Wat needs to be recognised is that altho it is the strongest league..the italian national team is playing catchup with the top futeballing nations like Brasil and France.

think about it
all the italian national players get to practice their league play on the best players in the world.. they get heaps of practice - paid by the italian league.
This considered ..the italians shud win everything if they are half as good as paolo rossi says - their talent mixed with being able to able to werk on beating the best players in the world on a weekly basis just goes to show how ordinary the italian national tean really are.
how may italians playing abroad compared with Brasil ??? no where near Brasil i bet,
it's no wonder Brasilian futebol has wonderful variety and talent
and the italian national team has to pool it's talent as a 10-man defensive wall ..cos they realise thats their only chance.
http://www.soccergaming.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

[sorry bout bad spelling last post]
i admit that Italian's are very passionate about futebol, thats y their league has the most money in it (and coz of their high price tag futebol industry) - then they buy top international players to play in their league ...like Zidane , Ronaldo too many to mention..
It is now the stongest league in the world.. cos of all the international players it - and the way the italian's play "gotta win - no matter how ugly" means that it is the stongest leaue in da world.
Wat needs to be recognised is that altho it is the strongest league..the italian national team is playing catchup with the top futeballing nations like Brasil and France.
think about it
all the italian national players get to practice their league play on the best players in the world.. they get heaps of practice - paid by the italian league.
This considered ..the italians shud win everything if they are half as good as paolo rossi says - their talent mixed with being able to werk on beating the best players in the world on a weekly basis just goes to show how ordinary the italian national tean really are.
how many italians playing abroad compared with Brasil ??? no where near Brasil i bet,
it's no wonder Brasilian futebol has wonderful variety and talent
and the italian national team has to pool it's talent as a 10-man defensive wall ..cos they realise thats their only chance.

[i shud get a spellchecker, shud be correct now http://www.soccergaming.com/ubb/biggrin.gif - also added a bit.]
i admit that Italian's are very passionate about futebol, thats y their league has the most money in it (and coz of their high price tag futebol industry) - then they buy top international players to play in their league ...like Zidane , Mijatovic, H Sukur, Salas, Ronaldo too many to mention..
It is now the stongest league in the world.. cos of all the international players it - and the way the Italian's play "gotta win - no matter how ugly" means that it is the strongest league in da world.
Wat needs to be recognised is that altho it is the strongest league..the italian national team is playing catchup with the top futeballing nations like Brasil and France.
think about it
all the italian national players get to practice their league play on the best players in the world.. they get heaps of practice - paid by the italian league.
This considered ..the italians shud win everything if they are half as good as paolo rossi says - their talent mixed with being able to werk on beating the best players in the world on a weekly basis just goes to show how ordinary the italian national tean really are.
Other nations do not get this level of practice on a weekly basis.
how many italians playing abroad compared with Brasil ??? no where near Brasil i bet,
it's no wonder Brasilian futebol has wonderful variety and talent
and the Italian national team has to pool it's talent as a 10-man defensive wall ..cos they realise thats their only chance.

[i shud get a spellchecker, shud be correct now http://www.soccergaming.com/ubb/biggrin.gif - also added a bit.]
i admit that Italian's are very passionate about futebol, thats y their league has the most money in it (and coz of their high price tag futebol industry) - then they buy top international players to play in their league ...like Zidane , Mijatovic, H Sukur, Salas, Ronaldo too many to mention..
It is now the stongest league in the world.. cos of all the international players it - and the way the Italian's play "gotta win - no matter how ugly" means that it is the strongest league in da world.
Wat needs to be recognised is that altho it is the strongest league..the italian national team is playing catchup with the top futeballing nations like Brasil and France.
think about it
all the italian national players get to practice their league play on the best players in the world.. they get heaps of practice - paid by the italian league.
This considered ..the italians shud win everything if they are half as good as paolo rossi says - their talent mixed with being able to werk on beating the best players in the world on a weekly basis just goes to show how ordinary the italian national tean really are.
Other nations do not get this level of practice on a weekly basis.
how many italians playing abroad compared with Brasil ??? no where near Brasil i bet,
it's no wonder Brasilian futebol has wonderful variety and talent
and the Italian national team has to pool it's talent as a 10-man defensive wall ..cos they realise thats their only chance.

[Teknos ,what is your point of posting the brazilian national team ?]

I know your question was made with the intention of irritating me, but that's ok. You're the ignorant one, since you don't pay attention to what I really mean with my posts.

Anyway to answer your question: I posted the Brasilian national team so you could read the little words in the parentheses (e.g. [Roma], [Parma], [Milan], [Venezia]), yeah you know, Italian club team names. I wanted you to see how Italy doesn't consider Brasilian players as untalented or undeveloped, or "low-ranking," as you try to depict them. Don't make me give you a reading lesson again please.

You can deny that, and then say "I think Brasil is a good team, bla bla bla," but I've seen enough posts about Italian players being "twice the talent of Ronaldinho," and other crap to know better. I'm extremely annoyed already. If Italy's strikers were better (and I'm saying this carefully, since I know you'll cry and start posting against ME), Totti would score on a more frequent basis. I believe that both teams have great talent, but in different areas. I believe that Brasil is a good all-around team, and has an unusual defensive style, since the defenders become wingers and attack too, and they have a good, flowing midfield, with great strikers will good ball control up top. I believe Italy is a great defensive team, and they have the solid, strong defense that helps them win their games. I really haven't seen much action with their midfield, but I have seen the strikers in action, and I think they're very random, but definitely can score when given the opportunity. I've only seen one goal by Totti though, and that was off of a header. Del Piero, I won't even say a word.

Also, I'd like to clarify that I'm not defending Juninhio, because I don't like the way he instigates arguments as well, but I defend Brasil out of my own free will. There are two teams that I love to watch when they play, and will always support, and those are Mexico and Brasil. I support my national team because I am proud of the talent that they have shown during my time, and I support Brasil for their amazing ballwork and control, and loose, flowing style of play.

That is why I am offended when you and Italia#1 post crap about how they aren't good anymore, or don't deserve to be considered good, because I disagree. I've seen enough talent. I also do not like when Paolo_Rossi posts things such as "Brasil's World Cups don't matter, that it doesn't represent talent, etc." I'm also tired of hearing about how Italy was the better team in the 94 final, and that they should have won, and bla bla bla. I'm also tired of hearing that Brasil deserved to lose in France 98, and how Italy deserved to win in Euro 2000. If it were the case, I think CROATIA should have won 98, since it was their first time and they got far, only to lose dramatically in the semis. When a team goes that far, no one deserves to lose or win. It is the winning team's will and strength that pushes themselves to victory, no matter if it is on the field or in penalties. In penalties a team's integrity and mental strength is tested. There players have to think about their country, instead of always trying to score a pretty goal. That is why players like Baggio (shut the f*ck up, I'm telling you now before you say crap later), Raul, De Boer, etc. have missed in the past, because they either are not mentally strong enough to handle pressure, or make the mistake of overestimating their talent. Anyway, this post has become quite long. I think I've made my point.

TeKNoS

Edmundo ,it show how ignorant you are .Clubs by many players around the world including italian best players .Why would Inter offer a big sum of money to Vieri ?Or why would Rome not sell Totti ?Why is Nesta and Cannavaro wanted by big clubs?Why hasnt Milan ever considered to sell Costacurta,Maldini and Albertini?Your point is useless .Serie A is the best league because it has all the players around the world ,not just south american ,but europeans and even africans .

teknos, it seems like that doesnt it. that i always think that italy deserves to win and not to lose, but i posted 1 post about EURO2000 which was pretty late, that i know to. how can you say that i always say that italy deserved to win, ive only did it ONCE.
not 3 or 5 times, if i did that then i would agree with you. and the fact that i mentioneed that brazil had a bad day was to reply to JUNINHIO who wouldnt stop rambling on about who knows what. and i didnt say they cant, i said the shouldnt have a bad day
because there ranked #1 in the world and where previously world champions. and i know that we did lose to france and i do except that, i just want to get others opinoions and i think i started a war.

Lets look at facts

You posted a bull **** message about how France didnt beat Italy
You posted a bull **** message about
Why is Brasil # 1 (like it really effects you)
And your name is Italia#1
(Is that an oxy moron?)

I am offened by all three and will stick up for Brasil in any case because in my opinion Brasilia#1. France beat Italy and so on

Teknos, stop inventing facts first of all. Nobody here is saying Brazil is not good anymore, I don't know where the hell you're coming up with these statements. And I personally couldn't care less who's ranked #1 in the world. The only thing that bothers me is when Juninhio starts rambling how Brazil is the best team in the world right now and that no other team can beat them when they play at their highest level. While I may agree with that statement, I also want to point out that there is a flaw in it. Brazil has not been playing their best (according to Juninhio's definition) for 2 years. Don't you think that means that they are just not that dominating anymore (right now, anyway)? The losses to Paraguay and Chile prove my point. It simply gets on my nerves that despite all these facts, the dissing and bashing of other teams compared to Brazil keeps going on and on. Brazilian fans may think what they want, and I respect their opinion, but keep it to yourself damn it! Most people, including me, won't agree with you, but you also shouldn't care, because after all that's only my opinion.

now watch forza azzuri, teknos ro juninhio
will say that your jumping on the bandwagon, but good valid point

im definitely stooping to juninhios level by saying, well at least italy came close to defeating france instead of losing 3-0,
and let me say this for you they had a bad day

[This message has been edited by Italia#1 (edited 08-16-2000).]

hey Junhinio,werent you the one that said BrazilU21 would crush Italy's U21 ?And then you say why italians starts dissing the brazilian national .Junhinio,teknos and all brazilian supporters ,when did I ever say that brazil sucks or how dont have any good players no more?Do not invent any false statement .

Considering that they will be the two best teams, unless you think one of Kuwait US or Japan will figure, I wanted opinions. Pablo I said gee i wonder who will win. Then you started up.

Fact of the matter is that You forza azzurri Italia#1 all dont like Brasil whether you will admit it or not.

And forza_azzurri your right Brasil being #1 is my opinion and I will express it and I dont care if you think Wales are #1 if you express it dont expect it to keep me up at night.

paolo u missed my point - again
im not saying the serie A is the strongest team in the world cos sth americans are in it.
here is my point again:
Wat needs to be recognised is that altho it is the strongest league (serie A)..the italian national team is playing catchup with the top futeballing nations like Brasil and France.
think about it
all the italian national players get to practice their league play on the best players in the world.. they get heaps of practice - paid by the italian league.
This considered ..the italians shud win everything if they are half as good as paolo rossi says - their talent mixed with being able to werk on beating the best players in the world on a weekly basis just goes to show how ordinary the italian national tean really are.
Other nations do not get this level of practice on a weekly basis

i think italy's best young players shud play abroad .. they get put in serie A (ventola, pirlo, some midfielder i dont know) against the worlds best and they do ok .. but thats as much as they develop. they need to develop else where cos there are so many better players in serie A than them.
Thats y wen it comes to their national team they have to put 10 men in their own half to have a chance.

Im not paying out on Italy.. jus giving some italians a reality check. http://www.soccergaming.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

First of all ,its the foreigners that kill our players because the younger players dont get the chance to play like the young south americans,scandinavian countries and maybe even africans .But we have already a division to help youngsters like Serie B ,its not as tough as Serie A ,but how do u think guys like Vieri,Del Piero,Iuliano,Nesta,Cannavaro etc... all started ?Beleive me ,we have good youngsters that many of you dont know about ,probably because they dont get much of a chance with a big club ,but when they are on ,they are still dangerous ,remember Ventola who came out as a sub for Inter in the CL 2 years ago and score a big important goal or what about pirlo who led Reggina in goalscoring .But the next futur star will be Gianni Commandini who will play for Milan this year and will prove his worth since Bierhoff has slowed down and George Weah will probably leave .

Why is it Pablo that an Italian club would rather take a risk on a young foreign star than an Italian star?? Is there some conspiracy?

Who says italian clubs dont buy young italian players ????Juventus have bought so many of them including Zanchi,Brighi and Massimiliano Vieri or what about Milan who bought Commandini and Daino .Why is it lazio signed Roberto baronio for 5 years and should be a regular starter for them .Junhinio ,your point is useless ,italian clubs buy more younger italians than any young foreigners .Secondly ,clubs buy only established players ,I doubt that they would risk to pay a heavy amout of money on a young foreigner when they havent proved anything .

Why is it that Italian clubs then would rather give a foreign star a chance to play than a young Italian player. I dont see your point. Your blaming the current state of the Italian national team on some foreigners when if Italian players were better they wouldnt be in this situation.

yawn

Junhinio ,if they give a young foreigner a chance is cause they spent a lot of money on him ,look at Juventus ,you actually think they are going to bench Del piero since he is the highest paid player .Secondly ,what makes italian players different than younger foreigners is some come out of nowhere and when given a chance to play ,they become the most wanted player .Look at Verona ,they had so many young players including Brocchi who became a star and because of his performance he was signed by inter ,or what about Luca Mezzano who played also with Verona and now Inter wants to get him back .Who cannot forget Simone Inzaghi who scored 15 goals with piacenze and saved them from relegation and then was signed by Lazio wich in mymind was a bad move cause they have both highly paid players like Salas and Crespo ,the only reason why he aint gonna play much is cause of the money spent of those guys ,but Simone Inzaghi is the player that clubs like Milan,Fiorentina and Parma want .

italian youngers may not develop as quickly as young foreigners but wait till they reach around the age of 24 ,they become great players .Vieri became a known player at the age of 24 ,Totti has proved it at age 23 and now is 24 ,what about Nesta who took over costacurta and is rated as the best defensive defensemen ,Maldini started to peak at about 24 years old .They may developp slower but they become better when they reach close to their mid 20's .

Brazil?No 1?XaXaXa.I don't think so.Anyway.If you are looking forward to seeing a national team playing well watch the games of Greece.I know that my country
isn't famous,because we only have taken part in 1 mundial{1994 USA},but now is our chance to become one of the best teams in Europe.
Maybe some of you are thinking that I am crazy or nationalist,but let me remind you some of our players:Mahlas{Ajax}.He was the first scorer in Europe in 1998.Georgatos{Inter}.Dabizas{Newcastle}.Tsartas{s evilia} and many other players that can make the difference.If you haven't convinced yet,wait till 2/9/2000.Germany vs Greece.

Pablo no player starts in the first side of a major club. All have to work their way up including Italians if their skill is better then they will be picked if they are unsuitable then clubs will go looking for foreigners.

Certainly it would benefit Italian clubs to pick Italians due to EU rules and travel costs plus not being inconviened during qualifiers. But the fact is that there is not enough talent in Italy to satisfy clubs and thus they must attain foreign stars.