I might have asked this before but Im getting old and can't remember ...

Do you still have Auto-Defence in WE8/PES4 ? ( As in PES3 players clearing the ball out for corners and so on or back acorss the penalty box even though your pressing away at C for them to boot it clear).

Yes.

Unfortunately, the cpu insists on interefering with your play just as much as ever.

Trust me Tic, after the first few days of excitement at having a new game with slightly different gameplay, the bad old feelings you get with PES3 will soon return for PES4 and it'll feel like you're still playing the same game you've been playing for the past few years.....I guarantee that.

Multi-player is the only way forward.

So would you say that I should get PES4 or just stick with 3?


I take it then most if not all of the bad bit that were in PES3 are still there?

Passing to team mates you don't want to!

Slowing down or stopping when going to a cpu player bring a ball under control


Your non-highlighted players not moving to loose balls that pass near them.

Passing to a team mate and he can't move he's stuck in postion and a defender just move past him onto the ball..


Aqua, In your opinion , Konami! why don't they or won't they fix these faults that all can see. I take it most of these flaws where there before PES3 ... Woud it mean a whole rework of the gameplay engine to get rid of these flaws??


I know I'll end up buying it but I would love to hear from someone from Konami about the flaws in the game that drives you nuts after playing it for a while ... some Ive meantioned above

Ive seen Interviews "is it with Seabass" but Ive never seen any where anyone asks him if these things can be fixed ...

Well, unless you're completely broke, get PES4 as it is a little better hen PES3. There are improvements but all of the cpu cheats are still there.

To be honest, the only one that I can think of has been cleared up is that you don't get instant red cards for trips. I've only ever had a few red cards in WE8 and they were for last man tackles (ie. usually correct red cards - although it gives red card for last man closest to bye-line irrespective if it's actually in front of the goal, so I've had a couple of red cards for trips at the corner flag, he was the last man closest to the bye-line but was not in front of goal). Having said that, the ref is still massively biased in favour of the cpu team. He will call foul on you for running side-by-side with a cpu player but will never call foul on the cpu team for the same thing. He will book you for a slide tackle but very rarely book the cpu player, even for very bad tackles. I've only seen 1 red card for a cpu player so far. Typical stats for a game will be you commit 5 fouls (only 2 real fouls) and get 2 or 3 yellow cards, cpu team commits 8 fouls and gets no bookings.

And the advantage rule is the complete opposite of what it should be - you ride a challenge and are clean through on goal - "oh, i'll call the play back for a free-kick" says the ref - it didn't even see a foul. You're hacked down and lose the ball - "play advantage" says ref. This will soon wind you up as it is so consistently wrong.

But the things you talk about - players slowing down and stopping when you're supposed to be controlling them - this is the worst I've ever seen it. It's so blatant and at times I can hardly believe what's happening. There are times when the ball is rolling right towards your guy and he goes into that side-ways gorilla stance and won't snap out of it. Your pressing super-cancel, fruriously trying to get him to move, but he won't move until a cpu guy gets the ball - suddenly he snaps out of it and can now move....very bad AI. Just as annoying thing is when he will actually change direction to make sure he doesn't get the ball - you're running at 45 degrees and then he decides to run at 60 degrees and slow down or go into a weird zig-zig movement. It just feels so bad at times.

Sometimes the pass goes the opposite direction your aiming - eg. you defending in your own box aiming out towards a wing, you press pass to pass it out to a SB on the wing and for some reason he plays a backheel straight to a cpu attacker in front of goal...wtf??? For me, there are aspects of gameplay which are just completely unacceptable. WE8 perfection?? What a joke.

Long "O" passing is now just plain buggy. Too often you'll try to play a long pass forward or across the pitch and it ends up flying back towards your own goal for no reason.

CPU turbo mode now seem to start earlier in the match and is just plain ridiculous. The speed differential betweeen your guys and cpu guys is so obvious. CPU guys can go from a standing start to cover 10 metres in about 1 second wheraas your guy will barely have moved, just loping around like arthritic gorillas. And sprinting down the wing chasing a long ball, the cpu guy will cover the ground twice as fast as you. I read some people say the cpu speed cheat had been sorted - ummm wtf? They had obviously only played one or two matches when they said that - it's more obvious than ever.

Why don't Konami fix them? To make the game harder. There's no chance this will be fixed until they completely revamp the game for a next gen platform. It's not football, it a computer game which has artificial cpu gameplay to make it sufficiently hard.

But like I said, I think multi-payer is the only way forward. Playing aginst the cpu is just a bad game-play experience because it is so heavily reliant on cpu cheats and I think we're many years away from coming close to a good cpu AI.

Why does no-one ask seasbass about them? Ass-kissers. The only thing they dare ask about with a hint of criticism is about licenses. ANd if he says they're working on getting 5 more teams licensed they're "oh fantastic, 5 more teams licensed, let me suck your balls, my hero - now PES will be perfection".

PES4 is well worth getting.
:rockman:

It's not easy you know. The COM cheats because they want to make the game harder. I know it's not right and everything. Other games also have this. Especially RTS games. In these types of game, even if the COM don't collect resources they can even make armies and stuff. It's not easy to make the game playable and at the same time challenging. That is why there is multi-player. I myself lack people around me to challenge me on WE/PES. Once in a while there are pple I can play with. So the next best thing is online gaming.

Originally posted by aqua
<snip>
If what you say is true that ******* sucks. I thought maybe konami were just experimenting with the ai cheating in pes3, because it never happened before pes3 afaik. Sounds like theyre copying ea ffs. I wouldve been happy if pes4 was exactly the same as pes3 but without the annoying as **** engine bugs and ai cheating.
Ironically enough with fifa 2005, ea are at least heading in the right direction (although its gameplay still isnt as good as pes3s, and i wont be buying it) for the first time. Konami it seems are going in the opposite direction (for the 2nd time in a row). Pes4 will be the last pes i buy if they dont sort out the problems in the next game, and if its as annoying to play as you make out ill get a refund and just buy football kingdom instead.
:f***: :f***: :f***: :f***: :f***: :f***: :f***: :f***: :f***: :f***:

Patrick,

I thihnk the problem is that as they have developed the game from ISS Pro Evo on PSX to PES4, each new edition has given the player more freedom to play. The problem is that it gives the player more freedom to attack the cpu team and it therefopre becomes easier to create chances as there is a far greater range of possible things to do with the ball. To counter this, they gradually been increasing the amount of AI cheating. It's always been there...I still remember getting pissed off with it in ISS PRo Evo 2, but it's increased over the years and now it's getting ridiculous and more and more people are noticing it.

But don't get me totally wrong. WE8 is still a great game (and so will PES4 be). Playing exhibition matches is a joy as the cheating is far less noticable. It only really gets bad when you play ML or play the last few rounds of a cup when the cheats increase to artificially make the game progressively harder. Hey, it makes it challenging, which is good.....but it soon just get's annoying.

Originally posted by aqua
Patrick,

I thihnk the problem is that as they have developed the game from ISS Pro Evo on PSX to PES4, each new edition has given the player more freedom to play. The problem is that it gives the player more freedom to attack the cpu team and it therefopre becomes easier to create chances as there is a far greater range of possible things to do with the ball. To counter this, they gradually been increasing the amount of AI cheating. It's always been there...I still remember getting pissed off with it in ISS PRo Evo 2, but it's increased over the years and now it's getting ridiculous and more and more people are noticing it.
Maybe there was some cheating in the earlier games that i didnt notice (cant believe i didnt). But im sure it wasnt anything obvious as in pes3, like the biased referees.
I was a bit confused about why they chose to do it this way. The most likely reason is that it was just the easiest and quickest thing to do, but thats a really ****ty excuse. Imo, if thats their attitude they shouldnt be making games that are supposed to be simulations.
What they should have done is add more tackles and defensive animations/ai/strategys etc such as shielding the ball and taking it into a corner which happens a lot in real football. Another improvement would be stopping defenders making so many stupid clearances up the pitch, as this very often causes them to lose possesion and therefore makes the game easier than it would be if they would make smart shorter passes and not lose posession so easily.
And something else that confuses me is why they put in all these new features and tricks but the ai very rarely or never uses them. They need to put in a flair attribute (unless they wanted to just base the frequency of tricks on the players dribble accuracy which would not be realistic because there are players who have great ball control but dont do tricks). It would make the game a lot harder and more fun if players like zidane and cristiano ronaldo did the stuff they do in real life. Surely that should be obvious to them? :confused: I just dont understand why they didnt take that approach.
But don't get me totally wrong. WE8 is still a great game (and so will PES4 be). Playing exhibition matches is a joy as the cheating is far less noticable. It only really gets bad when you play ML or play the last few rounds of a cup when the cheats increase to artificially make the game progressively harder. Hey, it makes it challenging, which is good.....but it soon just get's annoying.
People dont play games to get pissed off though. Konami need to sort this **** out quick. Sorry for the rant

How do you guys know what PES 4 is like?
There's no demo yet...

there is PES4 beta and betetesters regularly let us know how it's like
they relased many screenshots, videos and mini reviews

plus WE8 is already well known game and it's a main core of PES4

betatesting? is this in any way available? :amika: if u no wat i mean...