Jaliens and Ooijer are the only ones that can play a true offensive right wing back. And Ooijer is destined to start as center back.

YES! VDV makes it! He's back in training along with Gio. Faaaaaaaantastic!

Sneijder and Cocu are looking good too, so they'll make it as well.
:rockman:

Great news about the injuries clearing up.

Yes both Cocu and Sneijder ensured Marco that they will play on sunday so all in all we end this week in a high note. Now a victory in our first game and we are on our way ;)

Just saw Huntelaar's goal in the under-21s championship against France, and just :o

Why isn't this guy in the Full National team? Who was chosen ahead of him?

Hesselink

Just saw Huntelaar's goal in the under-21s championship against France, and just :o

Why isn't this guy in the Full National team? Who was chosen ahead of him?

Yeah van Basten must've had a memorylaps or smth :nape:
I mean picking him over KJ-Huntelaar :kader:

Robben won the game for us today. We controlled the game pretty much but the defence was a little shaky as expected. We're no longer playing the exciting Dutch football, but maybe this new conservative style with van Basten might get us far in the competitioin.

Sneijder didn't play very well today btw, all his deliveries were uncharacteristically poor and it seemed like things just didn't click for him. van Bronckhorst sucked and van Bommel was invisible. Although he didn't have any chances, I think RVN did ok, he was just totally marked by S&M's big center backs. Robben's pace and agility gave them a real hard time.

It was a decent display overall but we can definitely play much better. A couple of scary moments but van der Sar was solid.

Yeah Sneijder was not himself today but van der Vaart was happy to stay on the bench, he still isn't 100% fit according to himself.
Let's see if he can play against CIV cause this match will be totally different, I think we will win it in the end but it won't be easy. I'm not really scared for CIV, watching them against Argentina they lack attackingpower, the only one who is dangerous there is Drogba but other than that Argentina dictated the game. We dominated the game as well today, ballpossession was high but if we scored the 2nd goal it would've been a much easier game to play for us.
Too bad that freekick by van Persie barely missed goal man what a good kick that was :o

Sneijder did very well to disturb SCG's midfield, though. Still very useful.

Yes he was unlucky with his freekicks and corners though and normally he takes them much better but it's the first game so i'm convinced he will make progress during the WC.

Drogba will be a handful for our center backs, he is like Luca Toni when we played Italy, strong and skillful and explosive. It'll be tough.

But our team is so much more calm and experienced than CIV. They were completely one level lower experience-wise when the played Argentina, Argentina made them work all over the park and resulting in nothing. The CIV players like to dribble and run instead of making the ball do the work, I think our quick passing will break them open.

Can't wait for the next match, hopefully we'll see some of VDV!

Robben won the game for us today. We controlled the game pretty much but the defence was a little shaky as expected. We're no longer playing the exciting Dutch football, but maybe this new conservative style with van Basten might get us far in the competitioin.

Sneijder didn't play very well today btw, all his deliveries were uncharacteristically poor and it seemed like things just didn't click for him. van Bronckhorst sucked and van Bommel was invisible. Although he didn't have any chances, I think RVN did ok, he was just totally marked by S&M's big center backs. Robben's pace and agility gave them a real hard time.

It was a decent display overall but we can definitely play much better. A couple of scary moments but van der Sar was solid.

Robben was good today but I think he could have done better. I think that he played for himself too much and did not involve the team as he should have. Did too many dribbels ( which worked for the most part ) but usually he did not put up a good pass or cross for anyone. I think he could have involed his team a bit more but still a good game from him.

Robben was good today but I think he could have done better. I think that he played for himself too much and did not involve the team as he should have. Did too many dribbels ( which worked for the most part ) but usually he did not put up a good pass or cross for anyone. I think he could have involed his team a bit more but still a good game from him.
yes he was a little selfish. But I think he realized that he can easily take on the big and slow Serbian defenders and he kept on causing problems, so he went for more. Sometimes when a player is on a roll it's hard for him to stop and give the ball away.

van Nistelrooji is playing like ****e again. KJH WHERE ARE YOU?!!! :nape:

Yeah, I've been thinking about that aswell. It's not like Kuijt does any better when he plays central attacker.

I also think all the midfield problems can be solved by Maduro in 'de punt naar achteren' with Cocu/Raffie and Van Bommel/Sneijder ahead of him. As I said in the Holland v Argentina thread, when he came on in that match he stabilised the midfield and immediatly we became the team on top.

Well van Basten has to admit that he made a big mistake not inviting KJH to the WC, he would be an excellent replacement for RvN and looking at Marco yesterday at the pressconference it could well be he will not play with Ruud in the line up :o Kuyt will take his place if that's the case, he has to play better then against Argentina if he plays.

Yay, 0-4, and another couple of internationals from the Vitesse academy.


Schaars was brilliant too yesterday, although heavily overshadowed by Huntelaar. Didn't do anything wrong, gave good passes, showed good positioning and leadership. Janssen got some good long range passes off, and - after failing to coach Heitinga once - ordered the defense around the entire 12 minutes he played. Probably because he was ashamed of his mess up with Heitinga.

Yay!

can someone tell me something about Jeroen Drost?

Center back at SC Heerenveen and always certain of his spot in the Dutch under 21 squad. He'll surely become an international player in 2 to 4 years, with the current players just not cutting it. Currently recovering from a minor groin injury, should be fit soon.

Theo Janssen, Demy de Zeeuw. I've never heard of these players. :p How are they?

Mathijsen 1-0.

New younger players, Demy de Zeeuw plays for AZ Alkmaar and Theo Janssen for Vitesse. Janssen only plays because Sneijder couldn't be there cause he's first choice of course. De Zeeuw plays because van der Vaart is injured :(
Watching the game but the first half sucked, we played very pale/poor IMO hopefully the 2nd half will be better, Ooijer is out Emanuelson is in (AJAX)
Stijn Schaars is out Jan Vennegoor of Hesselink is in so we play with an extra striker now.

:sleep: :sleep:

Lol indeed Kuyt said they played like crap against amateurs but we are the only one who won in our qualificationgroup so all in all not a bad night.
That's all I want to say about it, let's just hope we play a HELL of a lot better vs Belarus on wednesday :o who btw had a draw against Albania :o

**** that, the mighty Belarussians are gonna run ALL OVER yo ass!!!






Word

hah...good timez, goood timez...

man..4-3-3 sux... u can only play that if the midfield is creative and strong. And quite obviously ours isnt. Klaas was so isolated.

I agree, we shouldn't hold on desperatly trying to play beautiful total football. It's time we start playing 4-4-2 or something. Might produce a bit more than what we saw yesterday.

Make a move, San Marco.

He is, he said yesterday that he was very angry because we played so poorly and he also said that this could mean that he has to take action and punish a few players or leave them out for the next game.
He was sorry that van der Vaart, Sneijder, Bouhla, Gio and Robben were injured or absent. van Persie said literally:"we should be ashamed of ourselves" I'm expecting a much better team against Belarus on wednesday!

EDIT: Just read the news that Sneijder, Bouhlarouz and Gio will play against Belarus on wednesday so that's good news (H)
See Marco immediately takes action!

Wow, we sucked.

Did we? I fell asleep after less than 17 minutes.

me too.

(Or actually I just switched my telly off and decided to go play some FM)

Well the game from tonight was better thankgod but what a difference a player makes WESLEY SNEIJDER is what we need and he showed that today fantastic play. He is in an amazing form not alone for Ajax but also in Oranje now :)
But ROBIN VAN PERSIE deserved a big big compliment, 2 goals and the assist for the third goal on Dirk Kuyt.
Kuyt was much better also than he was on saturday.
Heitinga sucked today :nape: what the hell was he doing with the mistakes he made omg. Nigel de Jong had Aleksandr Hleb covered during the whole match. 3 points again with a 3-0 win on to the next game Bulgaria in the beginning of October.
Romania won as well with 2-0 vs Albania and Bulgaria with 3-0 against Slovenia I think.

The Oranje crowd was disgraceful towards Johnny. Alright he didn't play the best of games but booing him out went too far(atleast for me).

Anyway, good game(besides those 20 minutes in the second half).

Van Persie is such one fantastic player to be watched ! (Y)

They even start comparing him to Cruijff now, which is way overreacted ofcourse.

Amazing news, Clarence has been called up for the NT for the first time since 2004 I believe. He's replacing Wes.

He was a 'persona non grata' since Van Basten took over, but now he's back and I think he deserved it. Finally he gets a chance, I hope Clarence will take it.

I'm sure he will take it, he's always important for Milan and I'm convinced he can be important for Oranje as well and I bet van der Sar will be happy with a 'mate' of his back in the squad ;) only van der Sar will not be playing this game against England cause Stekelenburg will replace him.

SEEDORF BACK :Bow: :Bow: :Bow: :Bow:

I heard Van Basten won't use RVN & Mark van Bommel anymore.

Bommel says he has a dispute with Basten...

Welcome to last year.

I heard Van Basten won't use RVN & Mark van Bommel anymore.

Bommel says he has a dispute with Basten...

http://www.orlyowl.com/orly.jpg

The bigest question - why marco didn't let Kuyt in the field??? another doubtful decision is to let seedorf play just 5min!

Yeah he did it Advocaat style if you look at his subtitutions...

Interesting article about the current state of the 'Orange Machine' (best nickname for any team in any sport btw)

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/columns/story?id=416905&root=euro2008&lpos=spotlight&lid=tab1pos2&cc=5901

sh*t, VdV picked another injury..:boohoo: seedorff should take his place on the field tonight. and i want to see 4-4-2 formation with KJH and Kuyt in front!
Btw, good news is that bulgaria couldn't beat albania today 0-0

4-4-2 with Van Basten at the helm backed up by Cruijff? Never mate. ;)

4-4-2 with Van Basten at the helm backed up by Cruijff? Never mate. ;)

Miracles happens :amika:

Babel Kuijt Robben

Sneijder

Van Bronckhorst Afellay

Emanuelson Mathijsen Bouma Heitinga

Van der Sar
Well, not a bad starting eleven. There should be no problem today, but you never know with Dutch players.

What the fu*k is affelay doing on the field?! where is clarence?! marco what are you doing?! the most creative player sits on the bench for the second game in a row.. if i won't see the sub seedorf for affelay in second half, i will be very very pis*sed off :mad:

boy that was close call :D, congrats on the victory but I'm sure you guys aren't thrilled.

Well atleast we showed better football than Saturday.

Goal by the best man on the field IMO.

the second half was better than the first and we did the most important thing - we grabbed 3 points! thank you GIO! :Bow:

Im happy I chose not to watch the game. Im unhappy we won.

Not the best of performances, got out of jail with that lucky goal.

Yay, Van Basten manages to make dumber decisions everytime. Just when you thought he reached his top by selecting Civard Sprockel from Vitesse, he now selected......Andwele Slory (Y)(Y) This superstriker plays for mighty Excelsior. They are playing in the Dutch relegation play-offs. Slory scored the incredible number of 12 goals. Wow! Way better than van Nistelrooy of course, who basically scores every week for Real Madrid...

Trust me, Van Basten would die to get RvN back into the squad, but Ruud himself doesn't want to come back.
Do agree about Slory, but hey it's only a friendly, I suppose he just wants to test here and there. It's not like Slory will play or anything.

Why try out a player you already know of he lacks the quality to play in the nt. Call up Makaay instead then, to try out if he is able to perform in the Dutch nt this time.

Oh, and Timmer. Dont make me laugh. He's about as bad as the whole Feyenoord defense. It's simple, if your defense is bad, you will get a lot of shots against, and as a goalkeeper you will make quite a lot of saves as well. That's why people praise him, but Timmer barely wins points for his team. Call up Waterman or Vorm instead then, maybe even Westerveld. I read he promoted with Murcia to the Primera Division.

Nah, Slory is more a right winger while Makaay is more the centre forward and functions better in a foreign 4-4-2 system. When he still played at Vitesse he wasn't that special. It wasn't till his Spanish days at Deportivo and later at Bayern, that he really started to score goals.

Oh and sorry but I rank Timmer higher than Westerveld. The fact that he promoted with Murcia isn't really thanks to him, but the fact Feyenoord made the UEFA Cup play-offs was thanks to Timmer. If he wasn't there, they could have relegated seriously...
Yet I do agree Waterman and especially Vorm deserve to be tried out in Oranje.

Makaay can play on the right. He did that at Deportivo quite a few times. And if we cant get any good players for a 4-3-3 system, shouldnt we switch to another tactic rather than calling up the only available right side player, but who absolutely lacks every aspect of an international.

I agree with Cody here why call up a player like Slory???? Come on he has no experience what so ever :o
Makaay is a striker well known for his talents and he has proven to be a good striker, let him prove himself for Oranje.
Van Basten makes weird decisions and Ruud DOES want to come back he already said that but not right now.

Westerveld is at Almería, and Max is right about him not being the decisive factor for their promotion (still need 2 points to get it)... 8 Goals against in 3 matches isn't a proof of form for anyone at whatever team.

Makaay can play on the right. He did that at Deportivo quite a few times.
Maybe two years ago that would have been an option. He's 32 now, he doesn't have the pace anymore to beat defenders one-on-one.

Is that useless de Jong still getting called up?

is Hendrik a Celtic fan that does does not know how spell Henrik

He's a Bayern fan. Not everything evolves around Celtic and Scotland, you know.

Interesting news. According to Van Basten, Ruud is willing to come back after the summer. Frankly, I think Marco promised Ruud a starting place, which he didn't want to/couldn't do earlier this season, which was why Ruud left in the first place.

Ok, so Van Basten is finally changing to a 4-4-2.

Glad to hear that Ruud will be coming back finally. All killer no filler.

:-paul: Important win today against Bulgary with 2-0

1-0 freekick (who else then Wesley Sneijder
2-0 Ruud v Nistelrooy (fantastic goal and well placed too)

We dominated in all areas (ballposession 63%) and played really well, agressive and strong.
The best guys for me today: Wesley Sneijder, Demi de Zeeuw, Seedorf (sub) who hit the post after he came on the pitch.

We're going strong and I'm sure we will qualify! :lui:

Why do I have a feeling you've been reading stats from the first leg?

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/report?id=197380&campaign=rss&source=soccernet&cc=5901

ESPN states possession was 48 to 52 Or maybe they got it wrong?

Whatever, fact is Bulgaria didn't stand a chance for most of the time.

Damn, I can't help thinking where we would be if we had managed to hold on to Wes like HSV did with Raffie. Almost sure we would have made it to the CL. :(

Beautiful goal by Van Nistelrooy BTW. Nice covered shot caught everyone by surprise.

Yeah I was thinking the same about Wesley but in the end it was inevitable that we would lose him :(
We kicked ass last night and finally I watched a team who was eager and willing to go for victory! (Y)
And trooper turn it anyway you want but you came to Amsterdam and you lost it's as simple as that so stop whining (H)
And after the game was over I was watching the stats and noticed that we had 63% ballpos. in the game so yeah ESPN got it wrong :evil:

Whatever. I'm gonna hold to the 48-52 possession statistic. IF you really had 63% of the possession then you're really really poor because you only had 2 shots on target. I mean really, wtf were you doing with that ball if not shooting? And obviously 1 of the shots came from a freekick, a BS freekick if I may add. Nistelrooy's goal was class however and understandably so, he's a class player. Anyway, enjoy your Euro campaign, I could guarantee that it'll be fairly short :). You only managed 2 shots against us...wait until you face a class team. And yes, I'm aware we won't get to the actual competition, no need to point that one out :).

who the f*ck cares about possesion?

stop bickering kids.

who the f*ck cares about possesion?

stop bickering kids.

lol...well said!(Y)

Another 3 points we don't deserve. About time that smug bitch Van Basten took a **** and died.

Haha yeah... honestly.. van Basten should've never been made bondscoach. Blame Cruijff....

Guys I don't wanna sound cocky or anything but if you play like you did today w/o Sneijder and Van Persie in Romania we'll definitely win and it won't even be close so for my sake and for the sake of me and 25 million other people across the globe I really hope you do (H).

Albania gave us trouble as well though when we played them over there. It was 0-0 at HT but we managed to score two goals in the second half but our play was far from stellar in that game. It's a tricky place to come in and just dominate.

I'm looking forward to the game and I know you all have a large enough pool of talented players to choose from and put on a dangerous 11 out there, anything can happen, can't wait.

2 goals denied. Especially that owngoal by Melchiot was as regular as an own goal can be.

I agree about the Melchiot one, but I'm afraid I missed the other one? :confused:

Well we shouldn't complain that much. I mean alright it's Albania, but they're not that bad(they've got Lorik for example :D) and every once in a while you have a match like this where things just don't fall your way. In the end it did and I'm happy with that. I think this squad can perform very well but they need some time together. That and we need a much better defense I'm telling you.

man what a goal by Ruud... in such a congested penalty box.

They are that bad. Albania played like any other first division team in the Netherlands. This performance was disgraceful. If it had been every once in a while, but with this team it's the exact opposite: every once in a while they have a good game.

nice from ur side that you are accepting the reality, all dutch funs that after I stayed with them after the match said the same :s, i am a big fan of holland ,but for this match of course i was with my national team, but that game of holland was disgusting like referee was too, one 1000 % clear goal, im not sure for offside coz i didnt see it yet, but that own goal :s just HE knows.

van basten thinks different, he said that holland deserve to win coz they were superior, he said much more terrible things from reality, read it.

albania deserved more from this match :)

Blerg. I'm just hoping we lose a few of these games in a row, so we can get rid of van Basten.

I think u need coupla solid defenders....watta goal by Ruud (Y)

ROMANIA ROMANIA OLE OLE OLEEEEEEEEEEEEE

:rockman: Goian :rockman:

One of the greatest results I've ever been a part of, we have finally beaten you!!!!!!!!

Yes congrats beating us with an offside goal really superb :-paul:
Romania was very very lucky during the first half, we had the chance of scoring at least 2 or 3 goals but we didn't so too bad.
That ref was a piece of sh*t with his 'playing by the rules' and then allowing an offside goal at this level it's a disgrace! :taz:
The pitch sucked, the stadium sucked, the weather sucked and frankly Romania was really bad, I've seen them much stronger.
First half ballposs. was 75 for us and 25 for Rom. that said it all.

Yes congrats beating us with an offside goal really superb :-paul:
Romania was very very lucky during the first half, we had the chance of scoring at least 2 or 3 goals but we didn't so too bad.
That ref was a piece of sh*t with his 'playing by the rules' and then allowing an offside goal at this level it's a disgrace! :taz:
The pitch sucked, the stadium sucked, the weather sucked and frankly Romania was really bad, I've seen them much stronger.
First half ballposs. was 75 for us and 25 for Rom. that said it all.

you my friend are what they call a sore loser

you my friend are what they call a sore loser

I second that in FULL. When the Dutch beat Albania 1-0 clearly favored by the ref he was exstatic, now he is looking for scapegoats. Learn how to accept defeat sore looser.

I hope van Basten gets fired... he actually deserves it by now. Than Ajax can hire him (H)

Yes congrats beating us with an offside goal really superb :-paul:
Romania was very very lucky during the first half, we had the chance of scoring at least 2 or 3 goals but we didn't so too bad.
That ref was a piece of sh*t with his 'playing by the rules' and then allowing an offside goal at this level it's a disgrace! :taz:
The pitch sucked, the stadium sucked, the weather sucked and frankly Romania was really bad, I've seen them much stronger.
First half ballposs. was 75 for us and 25 for Rom. that said it all.

you should apply for a job as Ajax manager :p

You certainly pass the test of finding lame excuses for a loss.

Hey Silencer, i love ajax bro, but tonight..... all i gotta say is 1-0 !!!!!!!!!! cWOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOO

Yes I know congrats mate :junior:

Belarus 2-1 Holland B :p 4th in the group, yup yup, i'm pretty happy.

Belarus 2-1 Holland B
I wouldn't call it "Holland B". It was pretty much a "first team" that you'd expect from MVB. The Oranje is playing so poorly it's unbelievable. :S

Isn't it great that Holland is put into "pot 1"... (Y)

I think he meant that last sentence sarcastically mate.

I disagree with De Zeeuw, he's been one of the positives at both his club and at Oranje plus we need people like him. A midfield with the likes of Wes, Raffie and Clarence just isn't going to work out.

I think it's almost certain Van Basten will leave Oranje to coach Ajax. Some Ajax-fans don't want him, but I think we should give him a chance than. His replacement? The KNVB would never appoint a foreign manager for patriotic reasons. I think it should be someone with experience and not a debut head coach, cause we see how it's working out with Van Basten. Cruijff will never coach again, he's way too happy in his power but no responsability-position he has right now(can't blame him for it too).

I was thinking about a return by Rijkaard or Hiddink. Maybe even give Van Gaal another chance as his contract with AZ runs down at the end of this season.

what the hell are we playing....seriously we need to get it right before euro 08.

You know, this is the first time I've seen it and it;s a bit dissapointing. As a child, it was described to me, by relatives, like as if it was the greatest volley of all time: "While on the dead run, he fired an unstoppable shot across the face of the goal." The damn thing curved downward and basically looped over the keeper. I know the angle and placement still makes it a gem of a goal but I have to admit, I was expecting a bullet, sorta like Wayne Roney's goal against Newcastle in 2005 at Old Trafford. Everytime the relatives join in to watch a game involving the Dutch, someone ALWAYS brings up this goal, with the most over-the-top description you can imagine.

Mm9qG1M3tMo

for me my two favourite oranje goals were bergkamp against argentina in 98 and overmars against yugoslavia in 00, because of how amazing they were when watching the game Live.

especially the game in 98 as i was seven years old and still remember everything surrounding it, how important it was how amazing the ball the touch the shot the goal all were, very nice goal

Mo7IgS_x_fc
Yeah I remember that moment well. It was on my brother's birthday and lots of people were there and we all started doing a polonaise through our house. :D

yep! also anything patrick kluivert did in his prime, i thought he was a true legend. so good in the orange jersey and for barca, and i rate him very highly

I always say he had the talent to become the best Dutch football player ever, if he wasn't so injury prone.
But I will never forget how he almost personally made me fall in love with football, when I was about five years old. :D

I always say he had the talent to become the best Dutch football player ever, if he wasn't so injury prone.
But I will never forget how he almost personally made me fall in love with football, when I was about five years old. :D

I thought you're much older :)

Convincing win against Croatia tonight with 3-0 in Croatia (Split)( goalscorers Heitinga, Huntelaar, Vennegoor O Hesselink) 2 AJAX goals!! (Y)
We played well and agressive, if we keep playing like this who knows what the Euro 08 will bring us. This was the team that brought England to their knees. Pletikosa is one of the worst goalkeepers I've ever seen :|
Van der Sar had two brilliant saves and my man of the match was Wesley Sneijder who played awesome IMO!

Btw we played with the new Nike matchball for the first time ever, strange ball but I like the yellow Swoosh on it, it's the same ball that's going to be used next season in the EPL.
Our new awaykit looks good too :)

Great game guys (Y)

Wow coming back from 3-0 showed that the team has got what it takes to bounce back in a game and we surely did today.
Hunter scored twice and again Vennegoor did what he's good at scoring goals and a very important one as well.
Winning with 3-4 in Vienna! First half sucked but in the 2nd half we set things straight! (Y)

I'd have expected you guys to ..............you know........NOT concede so many goals. It's only Switzerland......

Well actually it was Austria...
But that's even worse. Still a nice comeback.

Huntelaar = WC's golden boot.

Man I love Oranje, I really hope they get to the final this year.

They attack is very powerfull but their diffence is very poor, they couldn't defend against Russia last year and England this year as well, they should just attack, just look at their front line:

Kuyt
Van Persie
Sneijder
Robben
Van Der Vart
Huntelaar
Affelay
Babel

They should just attack, should they? What a brilliant tactical decison!

They're a counter-attacking team, that's why they thrashed everyone at the Euros. Russia beat them by playing a possession game, and taking their time. Holland alsos cored with one of their only counters, and the match went into extra-time because neither team found many openings. Their defense is fine.

I didn't see the England match, so I can't comment on it, but they have good players all across the park.

nah, the Dutch aren't a "counter-attacking" team, they are a possession team ... that philosophy is common between Ajax, Barcelona, and the Dutch national team thanks to Rinus Michels and of course Johan Cruyff ... the Russians won that quarterfinal because Hiddink was on the opposition bench and got them to play the Dutch way against the Dutch ...

nah, the Dutch aren't a "counter-attacking" team, they are a possession team ... that philosophy is common between Ajax, Barcelona, and the Dutch national team thanks to Rinus Michels and of course Johan Cruyff ... the Russians won that quarterfinal because Hiddink was on the opposition bench and got them to play the Dutch way against the Dutch ...

exactly, that's the reason that they do high pressing as soon as they loose the ball.

Possession football has been synonymous with Oranje since '74, but anyone watching them at the Euros last year can see that they were a counter-team. Most of their goals were from counters and the whole point of fielding both De Jong and Engelaar was so they would win the ball deep, so they could leave Kuyt and company upfield for the counter, and they picked the oppositon apart because they were outnumbered pitted against guys who were too fast for them to handle. The only game they really controlled was the one gainst Romania, and they were far from outstanding.

It was definitely Guus who masterminded Russia's victory, but he did it by closing down spaces and taking his time with the attack. Oranje never knew what to do with the ball because they needed spaces for their speed to be of any use, and a counter-attacking tactic results in more spaces, that's why van Basten chose it.

The Dutch of old aren't a counter-attacking team, but the Euro 08 team certainly was. If they've gone back to the Total Football approach under the new coach, good for them, but I think van Basten had it right.

kp, you're such a bull****ter.

I'm not a fan of counter-attacking teams ... I didn't like Van Basten as the coach for many reasons, and one of them is the counter-attacking system (and the other main reason was his selection choices) ... the system worked to devastating effect against Italy and France, no doubt, so he can't be faulted for those two matches ... but trust me, it came as a surprise ... the Van Basten tenure was notable for its LACK of anything emphatic ... the class of the individual players shone through on the big occasion, but it wasn't enough against, as you noted, an organized Russian side ...

I prefer possession and an imposing passing style ... but again, choices like Kuyt up front ahead of Huntelaar are not encouraging signs ...

No one likes counter-attacking teams, but I found Holland to be the most entertaining nation in the Euros, whereas Spain, who wound up winners with their possession game, were very boring to watch. Their game against Italy was the longest, most drawn-out match I ever saw.

If Oranje can get back to their Total Football roots, they would be great to watch. They have the players for it. Vaart, Sneijder, Persie, Kuyt, Robben, Afellay can all play in various places in the final third, and if they're constantly swapping positions, they could be deadly, especially with guys like de Jong and Engelaar covering, and Huntelaar waiting in the area so he can poach a goal.

But modern football's defenses are harder to crack down than the teams Cruyff's Oranje were pitted against, and right now, counter-attacks work. I would stick with it until the World Cup.

I think it's a great misconception that counter-attacking football is per definition a defensive way of playing. You can also play quite attacking football and still play on the counter attack. Arsenal often plays that way. Van Gaal adapted it to his AZ side, which won the championship last season. Plus I personally find a nice flowing counter-attack very enjoyable to watch.

I also think that total football doesn't work in modern football anymore. It might've worked in the seventies, but the level of modern football is so much higher than it was then. Going back to it wouldn't be a good idea. Especially for Oranje because we just don't have the right defenders to play in that way. People often associate the Dutch Total Football with players like Cruijff and Keizer but what they often forget is that it starts at the back with players who can not only defend but also pass very well. Players like Neeskens, Krol, Rijsbergen, Haan and Suurbier. They were all very versatile players. The defensive players we got just don't have that kind of quality. They're good defenders but don't have that allround game.

That's why I think we should let the idea of being able to play total football go and therefore going for a system based on counter-attacking football isn't such a bad idea. Certainly not if you've got quick and creative players like Van Persie, Robben and Sneijder and a deadly striker with Huntelaar.

a flowing counterattack is nice to see once in a while ... but a team that retains possession and also has pace at their disposal can instantaneously decide to counterattack when the occasion warrants, while a team that constantly plays on the counter won't necessarily be able to control possession and the pace of the match whenever they wish unless they inculcate that style into their play -- i.e. it is not an instantaneous decision that can be made ...

I do agree, though, that Total Football begins at the back, and that the current Dutch national team does not have the quality at the back to uphold that philosophy ...

Wy is Klaas not starting tonight? Kuyt is good and all, but I much prefer Huntelaar to lead the attack.

at the half, it's 1-0 from a penalty ... an unimpressive 1st half from the Dutch ... but not a big surprise with the XI selected/available ...

IMO, Kuyt sucks ... he may have scored a few for 'Pool recently, and he may have converted the penalty today, but he does not exude any class whatsoever -- he's more the type of player that needs to work quite hard to make a difference, and cannot rely on natural ability/skill ... Klaasy should be starting at this time ... I say "at this time" because I'd actually put Van Persie in the middle when he returns -- it will lend some fluidity to the attacking formation ... also, it is evident that Ruud should get called back up as a lethal impact sub; there is no such other individual for the team to call upon right now ...

Van Bommel did nothing in the first half ... he got in de Jong's way once or twice, but that's it ... nepotism keeping him in there? because it certainly isn't "superior ability" ... van der Vaart should be starting ... and if that means Engelaar needs to start as an additional DM in order to allow it, that is fine by me ... Elia would be the tactical sacrifice if that is to be the case ...

the defence hasn't really been tested ... so the only comment to be made is that van der Wiel is a future star; he bombed forward with purpose, though not always with success ... but his composure is terrific ... you see it with Ajax; but doing it at the international level is another thing ... so that was good to see ...

hope to see some changes in the 2nd half ...


EDIT:

2nd half was a mixed bag ...

firstly, I was glad to see Raffie come on, and soon after take the captain's armband as well ... he gave a good exhibition of his ability going forward, with excellent link-up play with Sneijder (ex-Ajacieds with telepathic reading of each other's movements), good passes, one assist, one superb shot, some tricks, some flicks, and a backheel too ...

Sneijder was brilliant today ... he did everything right ... with him and vdV as the creative engines, and Van Persie and Robben running at the opposition defence, the Dutch attack will be formidable ...

Afellay playing in a deep role was very interesting to see ... unsurprisingly, he didn't really convince in that position ...

the defence has always been known to be the weak link for this team ... they were not tested till the last 4-6 minutes ... and they looked terrible for that time ... Bocanegra was not being marked by anyone when we jogged in to put away an uncontested hear ... it showed a complete lack of organization ... there were a couple more close moments that you expect would have been buried by a better team than the US ...

Good report mr Journalist (Y)

I was delighted to see Wes and Raf performing that well in the 2nd half together.
It was a very difficult game for us because the USA played as a compact team and it was hard to break through.
The 2nd goal was a lucky one from Klaas Jan, it deflected but nevertheless it was a goal.

Good to see our Ajax-strikers Suarez and Pantelic scoring for their countries as well (Y)

11-0.

Huntelaar has an amazing record: 28 goals in 45 matches (63%)
and he came in from the bench on many occasions.

Huntelaar has an amazing record: 28 goals in 45 matches (63%)
and he came in from the bench on many occasions.

:Huntelaar:

I think RvP should play like he played yesterday all the time for Oranje. Free to roam around the pitch.

He plays better as a second striker, playing wide requires players like Robben not him.

He plays better as a second striker, playing wide requires players like Robben not him.

Yes, he was playing like a 10. Thats where he is brilliant. Too much creativity and skill to waste just as a no.9. He does play as a false 9 for us but its difficult to operate like that in the Premiership specially when you have less clinical and hard working players around you. If he was to play like that than Kuyt has to sit. But dropping Kuyt is a problem because he provides legs for a very attacking trio of Rvp,Robben and Sneijder who are not known for their running and defending. A great CB is also missing........I have high hopes for Bruma :D

Twas a perfect example of a beatdown.

Strootman is absolute class.

just found out that Urby's already cut from the prelim team ... damn shame ... he hasn't played at LWB for a while, but picking between Anita Vurnon and Jetro Willems for a starting berth isn't better, surely? not to mention he's a heck of a utility player ...

Goalkeepers: Tim Krul (Newcastle United/ENG), Maarten Stekelenburg (Roma/ITA), Michel Vorm (Swansea City/WAL)

Defenders: Vurnon Anita (Ajax), Khalid Boulahrouz (Stuttgart/GER), Wilfred Bouma (PSV Eindhoven), John Heitinga (Everton/ENG), Joris Mathijsen (Malaga/ESP), Ron Vlaar (Feyenoord), Gregory van der Wiel (Ajax), Jetro Willems (PSV Eindhoven)

Midfielders: Ibrahim Afellay (Barcelona/ESP), Mark van Bommel (AC Milan/ITA), Nigel de Jong (Manchester City/ENG), Siem de Jong (Ajax), Adam Maher (AZ Alkmaar), Stijn Schaars (Sporting Lisbon/POR), Wesley Sneijder (Inter Milan/ITA), Kevin Strootman (PSV Eindhoven), Rafael van der Vaart (Tottenham Hotspur/ENG)

Forwards: Klaas-Jan Huntelaar (Schalke/GER), Luuk de Jong (FC Twente), Dirk Kuyt (Liverpool/ENG), Jeremain Lens (PSV Eindhoven), Luciano Narsingh (Heerenveen), Robin van Persie (Arsenal/ENG), Arjen Robben (Bayern Munich/GER)I imagine the 4 cut would be Narsingh, Lens, Maher, aaand, idk, Luuk de Jong?

I'm surprised Boulahrouz gets called up, he's a liability at Stutgart.

That defense is worse than usual, and that's saying something.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_KZ5qdgu3avM/SDw4Hn056TI/AAAAAAAAAQ8/W-RQ9X5W83A/s400/cristiano_ronaldo07.jpg

That defense is worse than usual, and that's saying something.

Seriously, they're getting old. Bouma? Had totally forgot about that guy. Guess they need to put De Jong and Van Bommel in front of the backline to stop the attacks before they start.

Cruyff's XI according to some column of his:

http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/8818/xifiocruyffsxi.jpg

sigh :( ...

I mean, I would have Nigel in for Afellay, and play him at CDM; but Urby LWB, Raffie + Wes as creative mids, supplying Robin AND Klaas, with Arjen given a free role? what's not to like?

the fact that he'd rather a DM play ahead of any of the other CB options sums that defensive situation up neatly ...

Nobody would defend in that midfield of Cruyff's , they would only win by scoring more goals than the opponent.

Afellay has been out practically the whole season no way he can play well right from the start, Strootman in the CM of that would make it interesting.

Cruyff's XI according to some column of his:

http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/8818/xifiocruyffsxi.jpg

sigh :( ...

I mean, I would have Nigel in for Afellay, and play him at CDM; but Urby LWB, Raffie + Wes as creative mids, supplying Robin AND Klaas, with Arjen given a free role? what's not to like?

the fact that he'd rather a DM play ahead of any of the other CB options sums that defensive situation up neatly ...

LOL. So ******* out of touch. I like his attacking trident though, I think Huntelaar deserves it.

JC out of touch? whaaaa?!

Hahaha, okay I'm not saying anything new, but that suggested lineup is shocking in its naivete. I don't think that would be successful in 1970 either.

oh it's a total FIFA formation, so it can't work ... well, not in its entirety; it does have fascinating aspects, though ...

I actually think that with Nigel in place of Afellay to play the Busquets role, and van Bommel retained in the Mascherano role, a case could be made for Holland mimicking Barça ...

being in the Group of Death either means erring on the side of caution, or throwing caution to the wind -- I like the latter, but the former is pc ... at EURO 2008, van Basten, in the second half versus France, did have Arjen-Ruud-Robin in front of Wes-Raffie, with Nigel holding behind them ... doubt van Marwijk would be as bold ...

I don't think CB is in van Bommel's skill set at all. The man is a foul machine, which is fine in the middle of the pitch, but not in the final third. I think the defense is so shocking that you need the 2 holders. I also don't think this Dutch team is capable of playing like Barca. The technique is maybe second best in the world after Spain, but still not good enough to play that way.

Also, I made a mistake, I think Robben should be deployed on the right to take advantage of his best quality, which is cutting in and shooting. Although I guess you can make the argument that there are too many guys in the middle for the Dutch and they could use him crossing if Huntelaar is in the middle.

Bayern vs. Dutch tomorrow. Netherlands to win 10-0.

Robben to choke for both teams? waitwaitwait, he'll be injured ...