I've been playing soccer games for years and years and years. From FIFA titles on the SNES through N64 and PS2, and Pro Evolution Soccer on the PSOne, Winning Eleven 6 and now Winning Eleven 7.

I'm not going to try and list all of the things that I hate about what Konami has done to make Winning Eleven 7 make Winning Eleven 6 angel-like.

WE6 already had it's problems - CPU attackers ran invincibly past defenders and at times, there was nothing you could do.

The shooting was controllable, although at times it left you wondering how the hell a shot can go skyrocketing when you barely even tapped a button, or it would go way far right or left, depending on the direction of your shot.

Well, once I got WE7 I was introduced to a whole new world of poor AI programming hell. Sweet Jesus, I was definitely not ready for the kind of frustration and red-hot rage this game has caused me. I think I'm going to need a defibrulator soon, just in case I have a heart attack. I've come pretty close already !

Usually what I get whenever I post the imperfections of Konami games people jump on me. I'll take the risk again - it doesn't matter to me, because I post here maybe once a year.

Anyway, after this last match, I was ready to burst. I am sick and tired of the following:

- CPU attackers are invincible. There is no other way to describe it. They can wresle off defenders like Hulk Hogan, or The Rock. They're superhuman, fast, and unstoppable.

- CPU attackers dive if approached even in the slightest form of a tackle. This is wrong. I don't understand what the Konami programmers were thinking here. It's frustrating when I'm trying to simply take the ball away from a player and he falls down when my player gets close to him. Sometimes I don't even press any buttons and CPU players fall down. This is poor programming, and either it's a joke, or they dropped the ball. This leads to my next point.

- I should be allowed to control the way a player tackles; the CPU shouldn't decide it for me. I never intend to foul, and I hate when my players go in hard without me even wanting them to. I didn't order those tackles, therefore they shouldn't do them. This happens in two forms; either when I try to go in for the ball and the computer makes my player enter over-aggressively, or when a player I am not controlling just smashes into another player. This problem carries over from WE6.

- The shooting. When is it going to stop ? When is this stupid, senseless trend going to stop ? Why must programmers make the shooting range HUGE to make a game more realistic ? It may keep the scores down, but it makes the game less fun when I do all the work to get past the CPU players, which is already hell in its own right. I aim properly, but the CPU decides that my shot should go wide left or right, and when I mean wide, it's as if the goal was closer to the corner flag than in the center at the goal line. I also cannot stand how shots go sky-high when I simply tap a ball ! Un-f**king-necessary !

- The incredible number of times that the CPU benefits from my numerous smashings of the post. OK, sometimes, once in a blue moon, in a real match, players may smack the post once or twice. But 3, 4, 5 times in one game ? What the hell ? I'm no creator of conspiracy theories. But f**k, come on ? Hitting the post 5 times ? That's just abso-f**k-inglutely incredible ! How the hell is it that this happens ?

- The flick over the head. This is more unhelpful than it is helpful. It's involuntary, and many times the CPU can just step up and take the ball away before I can even get it to the ground. This needs to go away. It would be cool once they have the AI issues under control, for now, this is pointless.

- What the hell happened to good crosses ? Why did Konami programmers choose to exaggerate crosses ? Each time I cross, it goes straight over the head of my players. It's really starting to piss me off. When I do all of the work to get down the field and I want a simple cross, and it goes all the way to the other sideline, that pisses me off ! Also, even if I try a short cross, the CPU players intercept it 90% of the time. Fix this, Konami. If it ain't broke, don't fix it in the first place.


Well, that's my rant for now. If I'm the only one that has these complaints, then so be it.

All I know is that there are a lot of issues that Konami needs to take care of before this game can be called good again.

If they're taking the EA/FIFA route and f**king good games up and never turning back, I'm done. I'd rather not play any soccer games at all.

There's enough of GTA: Vice City and GTA: San Andreas to fill up my time :D

- Joe

"CPU attackers are invincible. There is no other way to describe it. They can wresle off defenders like Hulk Hogan, or The Rock. They're superhuman, fast, and unstoppable."

I say this to you, you haven't played this game enought to realize that this is completely untrue, or maybe ur just not wise enough to realize how to predict patterns

"CPU attackers dive if approached even in the slightest form of a tackle. This is wrong. I don't understand what the Konami programmers were thinking here. It's frustrating when I'm trying to simply take the ball away from a player and he falls down when my player gets close to him. Sometimes I don't even press any buttons and CPU players fall down. This is poor programming, and either it's a joke, or they dropped the ball. This leads to my next point."

no, you just haven't thought about the situation in real life. you cannot just run in front of an attackers path and expect to get a no call. every smart player will fall when you try to take the easy way out, again , you blame the game for something you haven't spent enought time on, this i know because i felt the same way about this subject at one point. But after I actually got really good at this game , I realized it wasn't the cpu , it was you who was screweing up and expecting the cpu to change and comfort to the way you play in order to make you feel like you;re playing right
just play more man, dont complain, or try to point out "programming mistakes"
if you didn't program the game you cannot point out the "programming mistakes"!

A few points (dont take this as a flame, im not a fanboy and ive criticised pes3 here enough myself)
Firstly i think youre exaggerating a bit.
Second, most if not all of these problems are fixed in pes4. Im fairly sure the ai doesnt cheat any more. In fact the ai fouls more than i do now. I also thought they might **** up the pes series but they havnt, even though pes4 has some bugs.
Third, you should have read the instruction book. The crosses are not exaggerated, if you press cross once its a far cross. You have to press cross twice to aim nearer. Three times hits it along the ground.

Originally posted by wheed007
I say this to you, you haven't played this game enought to realize that this is completely untrue, or maybe ur just not wise enough to realize how to predict patterns

See - these are the childish responses that I expect from people on this forum. Unfortunately, the majority of you are younger kids in high school that spend LOTS of time on games. I used to be one too. Now I just play whenever I have time when I'm not taking classes, doing homework, working.

I've played the Winning Eleven series a lot. I've logged THOUSANDS of hours on PES, WE6, and now WE7.

Don't underestimate someone because of one post - you have no idea how much they've played.

There are patterns that I use to keep the CPU in check - however, it doesn't work very often. The AI is WAY too blown out of proportion in WE7.

Try playing WE6 and then WE7 and you'll see the difference.


no, you just haven't thought about the situation in real life. you cannot just run in front of an attackers path and expect to get a no call. every smart player will fall when you try to take the easy way out, again , you blame the game for something you haven't spent enought time on, this i know because i felt the same way about this subject at one point. But after I actually got really good at this game , I realized it wasn't the cpu , it was you who was screweing up and expecting the cpu to change and comfort to the way you play in order to make you feel like you;re playing right


Actually, the reason I play WE games is BECAUSE I think about the situation in real life. Again, you're making assumptions, and assumption is the mother of all f**kups, and you're no exception.

You cannot categorically deny that there are errors in the game when it comes to fouling.

Also, I can't even understand your reply; it's too jumbled and incoherent, and it simply doesn't make sense.

just play more man, dont complain, or try to point out "programming mistakes"
if you didn't program the game you cannot point out the "programming mistakes"!

I can't point out programming mistakes ? How long have you been on these forums ?

That is specifically why EA has been trying to improve their games - from time to time they've come to these forums to see what people have to say and try to make changes in the game.

You're a moron for even trying to suggest that people shouldn't point out programming mistakes. Simply because you don't program a product, doesn't mean you can't criticize it. That's a stupid, sheepish mentality to have.

If companies were never to receive any feedback, Microsoft wouldn't care about improving Windows systems and we'd all still be having crashes and blue screens, just like with Windows 98.

Feedback is what makes game companies program BETTER. It is what helps them make BETTER games.

Learn that lesson and don't be a fool.

- Joe

Originally posted by Passanzaro
A few points (dont take this as a flame, im not a fanboy and ive criticised pes3 here enough myself)
Firstly i think youre exaggerating a bit.
Second, most if not all of these problems are fixed in pes4. Im fairly sure the ai doesnt cheat any more. In fact the ai fouls more than i do now. I also thought they might **** up the pes series but they havnt, even though pes4 has some bugs.
Third, you should have read the instruction book. The crosses are not exaggerated, if you press cross once its a far cross. You have to press cross twice to aim nearer. Three times hits it along the ground.

I am exaggerating, it's a rant post. It's meant to be read and laughed at while reading it. It's supposed to be in good humour, although those problems really do exist in a significant form, and they piss me off.

Also - if you read my post carefully - I made the distinction between long crosses and short crosses. I DID read the instruction book - front to back, and I keep it out with me for when I dedicate a night to playing.

What I am talking about is that the crosses are blown way out of proportion and are unleashed harder than shots sometimes, or just way too high.

Again, for those of you that don't see what I am talking about - play WE6 and then play WE7. You'll see the change, you'll see the difference.

- Joe

just feel like a quick say to all this...

there's absolutely no reason why someone can't rant about the imperfection of WE. We've all been there. I only became a fan of the game about 3 years ago, and have experienced the highs and lows of playing WE6 and WE7. I'm still playing WE7i PC regularly, and eagerly waiting for PES4 PC to come out, hopefully soon.

All those points that were mentioned in the very first post are very true: it is often very hard to catch CPU defenders; fouls sometimes do happen very easily; missed shots and shots that hit the post/bar happen lots more than goals. I also noticed how accurate crosses are much rarer in WE7 compared to WE6, when I used to score loads from cross-->headers. Those are very frustating things indeed.

But what I feel about all these is, why would you want to get rid of these frustrating moments? After all, wouldn't it be a bit boring if you win the ball from the CPU striker all the time, win 5-0 against the CPU every game? Of course I'm exaggerating here, but imagine: what fun would it be if you knew before the game that you were probably gonna win anyway?

The game's working fine for me. I usually play a 10-minute game on 5 stars, and my average winning rate (no matter what team I use / play against) would be around 60-70%, and the rest of the time I draw or I lose. But if I wanna have a very quick game, I set it to 5 minutes and tone it down to 3 stars, because otherwise I don't think I'd be able to score.

In my opinion, it's the unpredictability of the results that makes football/soccer such a beautiful game, and the programmers of this game is simply trying to emulate this by making some of the "flaws" in the game that have been pointed out. Sure, a speedy/skillful CPU striker does drive me insane (especially when he scores against me!), but the feeling of scoring against that bloody cheating CPU team (after all the misses) is what keeps my faith in this game, and I look forward to the vast improvements in PES4 when I do get my hands on it!

Also - if you read my post carefully - I made the distinction between long crosses and short crosses. I DID read the instruction book - front to back, and I keep it out with me for when I dedicate a night to playing.
Sorry i missed that.
Also, even if I try a short cross, the CPU players intercept it 90% of the time.
Have you tried short cross + r2?

Your post reminds me of how I reacted when I first started playing WE7I/PES3 (after playing WE6I for a long time). It was quite frustrating and believe me there were quite a few times the controller was thrown down. I think there are quite a few things that Konami did to make the game harder (but in an artificial way)-a plethora of blocked shots, crossbar deflections, assuming control of your players so they stop dead suddenly after a steal, etc. It's too bad they had to resort to a few tricks to make the AI better. However, I think the gameplay in WE7I (and now WE8/PES4) is still the most realistic offering available for a football game. Let me ask you this. After all the hours you've logged in the game are you winning regularly? In master league do you gain promotion from division 2 to division 1 in the first season? Do you win the tournaments? Have you bumped the difficulty to 4 or 5 stars? If so, why are you complaining? Isn't it more satisfying to be challenged to win?

teknos, im not a child in high school you moron, Im just good at this game and I find NO PROBPLEMS with the cpu cheating, I used to think it cheated but I can read it all the time now, I win at will, so if you have played 1000s of hours and u still find these problems then you suck at this game. I went a whole master league season without a loss, even in cup and champs league too.

TEknos, first off good post.I apologize for any childish responses. But i disagree with mostly everything you've said as I, who has also logged countless hours on this game, have not experienced any of the things you have experienced.

There are no attackers that I play against who can just run right by me, I strafe and switch alot just like in real soccer, its alotta work and its really worth it when i win the ball back. This is just what i've experienced though, maybe you should try to do some editing or something ( i made a thread called "DOes ANyone Else DO This" quite a while ago, it helps improve gameplay...do search for it if interested).

Anyway, sorry you're having trouble, but until I see any proof of any of this in my own game I can't agree with you, I respect your opinion, but that's about all. Take Care and enjoy playing GTA, been thinkin bout gettin it myself, is it worth the dough?

peace
m.l

Originally posted by wheed007
teknos, im not a child in high school you moron, Im just good at this game and I find NO PROBPLEMS with the cpu cheating, I used to think it cheated but I can read it all the time now, I win at will, so if you have played 1000s of hours and u still find these problems then you suck at this game. I went a whole master league season without a loss, even in cup and champs league too.

You went a whole master league season without a loss ?

Do you want a cookie for your accomplishments ?

In WE6 I went 89 matches in two Master league seasons undefeated

Not only that, but I won top goalscorer, and top assist accolades each time. My average total goals scored in a season was 110, and I was scored on an average of 18 goals.

It makes me sad that I had to stoop to your level and brag about things I've done in a video game, but I guess that's what wins in this forum :D

- Joe

Originally posted by SEPAKBOLA
TEknos, first off good post.I apologize for any childish responses. But i disagree with mostly everything you've said as I, who has also logged countless hours on this game, have not experienced any of the things you have experienced.

There are no attackers that I play against who can just run right by me, I strafe and switch alot just like in real soccer, its alotta work and its really worth it when i win the ball back. This is just what i've experienced though, maybe you should try to do some editing or something ( i made a thread called "DOes ANyone Else DO This" quite a while ago, it helps improve gameplay...do search for it if interested).

Anyway, sorry you're having trouble, but until I see any proof of any of this in my own game I can't agree with you, I respect your opinion, but that's about all. Take Care and enjoy playing GTA, been thinkin bout gettin it myself, is it worth the dough?

peace
m.l

Hey, no problem. I respect your opinion as well. The differences in our opinion might be due to the games we've played. I've been playing the PES/WE series since the SNES, so I've seen things get better and also get worse.

I think some people in this thread assume that because I posted these problems that I always get beaten - that's not the case. I'm in a national team league right now leading the table, I am the top goalscorer, the least scored on, and yet to be defeated in about 20 matches.

What I'm complaining about is that players like Landon Donovan, which is a good player, but certainly not mercurial in real life, and is small and lightweight, can push off my tallest, strongest, and best defenders with ease. Not only that, but he can run around in circles in the box and move the ball each time that I try to dispossess him with one, two or three defenders.

Another problem is removing from behind - the CPU players can reach around with their arms and pull you back cleanly. When my players chase the CPU players, they must get in front or wait until he turns in order to stab the ball away.

I'm going to check out the thread that you mentioned, and maybe I'll get some tips from people, rather than the stupid "you haven't played enough" response.

People need to understand that you can win a game and score goals and be undefeated for long periods of time, but the WE series can do better in terms of AI. As of now, the AI has gotten worse and more frustrating. I'm beginning to feel like I'm playing FIFA 99, and if Konami games are taking that turn, I'm out, it's as simple as that.

And to answer your question about GTA - YES !!! It's totally worth it. Vice City is just fantastic - if you haven't played it yet, you have to. The music, the vehicles, the animation, the adrenaline rushes and the violence make it all worth the money :D

Vice City is only like $20 right now since it's a bestselling PS2 title. Also - if you're impressed with Vice City, wait until San Andreas comes out...haha Check out some online reviews and you'll be tempted to put a deposit on it right now.

- JOe

CPU cheats????? Konami has made this game easy cuase of bitch ass cryers like u. Just play the game and stop your bitching. hopefully WE9 would be 10x harder than WE8.

AI is the weakest point of many games these days...AI technology has not advanced near as fast as graphics have.

Even with the problems I don't want to imagine a world without PES/WE.

Originally posted by Bummy_JaB
CPU cheats????? Konami has made this game easy cuase of bitch ass cryers like u. Just play the game and stop your bitching. hopefully WE9 would be 10x harder than WE8.

Riiiight.

Allright you E-Thug ! Acting tuff behind a monitor is kewl !!!

You've gotta do better than that to appear remotely convincing

:kader:

Originally posted by Keemo
AI is the weakest point of many games these days...AI technology has not advanced near as fast as graphics have.

Even with the problems I don't want to imagine a world without PES/WE.

You're right. I'm glad that someone has some sense around here.

The games are definitely fun, and that's why I stick to them. I hadn't played a FIFA game since FIFA 2000 on the PC, then I made the mistake of getting FIFA 2002...and I never tried again.

I went straight back to Pro Evolution Soccer for the PSOne and waited until I got WE6 :D

The AI has its problems, but the game is still playable, and I recommend it to all of my friends. In fact, it's even better to play against friends, because the game becomes much more real.

- Joe

Too me it sounds like someone slipped a copy of FIFA 2005 into your WE8 case :(

Originally posted by Ebonix
Too me it sounds like someone slipped a copy of FIFA 2005 into your WE8 case :(

Haha I wish that were the case !

I only have WE7 so far though. The video game stores said that WE8 isn't going to be out for the PS2 for a while here in the U.S. though... :0(

- Joe

Originally posted by elth
just feel like a quick say to all this...

there's absolutely no reason why someone can't rant about the imperfection of WE. We've all been there. I only became a fan of the game about 3 years ago, and have experienced the highs and lows of playing WE6 and WE7. I'm still playing WE7i PC regularly, and eagerly waiting for PES4 PC to come out, hopefully soon.

All those points that were mentioned in the very first post are very true: it is often very hard to catch CPU defenders; fouls sometimes do happen very easily; missed shots and shots that hit the post/bar happen lots more than goals. I also noticed how accurate crosses are much rarer in WE7 compared to WE6, when I used to score loads from cross-->headers. Those are very frustating things indeed.

But what I feel about all these is, why would you want to get rid of these frustrating moments? After all, wouldn't it be a bit boring if you win the ball from the CPU striker all the time, win 5-0 against the CPU every game? Of course I'm exaggerating here, but imagine: what fun would it be if you knew before the game that you were probably gonna win anyway?

The game's working fine for me. I usually play a 10-minute game on 5 stars, and my average winning rate (no matter what team I use / play against) would be around 60-70%, and the rest of the time I draw or I lose. But if I wanna have a very quick game, I set it to 5 minutes and tone it down to 3 stars, because otherwise I don't think I'd be able to score.

In my opinion, it's the unpredictability of the results that makes football/soccer such a beautiful game, and the programmers of this game is simply trying to emulate this by making some of the "flaws" in the game that have been pointed out. Sure, a speedy/skillful CPU striker does drive me insane (especially when he scores against me!), but the feeling of scoring against that bloody cheating CPU team (after all the misses) is what keeps my faith in this game, and I look forward to the vast improvements in PES4 when I do get my hands on it!

elth:

I skipped your post when I was rampaging and responding to ther other ones :D

Anyhow, your post was excellent and hits everything right on spot. The game is much more interesting when it's unpredictable and things could go either way.

It makes it way more interesting when I have to bust my ass to stop CPU attacks for 5 minutes straight before I earn the upper hand on a counterattack and score an excellent goal. It's way more fulfilling than if I ran past all of the CPU players without a challenge.

I also like to see when the CPU makes amazing plays and scores against me rightfully. It makes the game more exciting and encourages me to score an even better goal.

However, when the CPU can keep the ball at its feet and create space from nothing better than Ronaldinho, Ronaldo, or Zidane can in real life, it gets old pretty quick ;)

- Joe

Originally posted by TeKNoS
I am exaggerating, it's a rant post. It's meant to be read and laughed at while reading it. It's supposed to be in good humour, although those problems really do exist in a significant form, and they piss me off.

It is human nature to laugh at other people's misfortunes. I damn nearly shat myself when you were about to have a heart attack after once in 20 times finally breaking through the CPU defense, 1 on 1 with the keeper only to see Van Nistelrooy aim for the crowd behind the net.


good post btw ;)

Originally posted by sky.
It is human nature to laugh at other people's misfortunes. I damn nearly shat myself when you were about to have a heart attack after once in 20 times finally breaking through the CPU defense, 1 on 1 with the keeper only to see Van Nistelrooy aim for the crowd behind the net.


good post btw ;)

Hey man, it's happened tons of times already :D

That's why I'm going to need to keep someone next to me in case I need medical attention after I have a heart attack or an aneurysm pops in my head :f***:

Man, while I agree with some of the things, this ain't a good place to post this kind of stuff.

The PES/WE fanboys are even worse the FIFA's. (H)

Originally posted by jumbo
Man, while I agree with some of the things, this ain't a good place to post this kind of stuff.

The PES/WE fanboys are even worse the FIFA's. (H)

You're very right :D

Originally posted by jumbo
Man, while I agree with some of the things, this ain't a good place to post this kind of stuff.

The PES/WE fanboys are even worse the FIFA's. (H)


HAHAHA i still dont get whats wrong with being a fan...arent u all hypocrites soccer fans?!!?

Man the fact of the matter is I have spend my hard earned money on old Fifa games. Why?? because back in the day it was the ONLY football title available here in the US. And of course the game wasnt well known.

We have a right to bitch against Fifa and hate them for those half ass products they have put out. Until they can be 100%= in terms of gameplay with PES than I will keep hating. Sh#$ I love drinkin hatorade bring it on.(H)

I was actually laughing out loud when I read the first post. The things you complain about are silly. The only aspect of WE that feels unreal to me is the commentary. Everything else is like a real football match. If you really find WE this frustrating, than maybe you don't know football as well as you think you do.

- CPU attackers are invincible. There is no other way to describe it. They can wresle off defenders like Hulk Hogan, or The Rock. They're superhuman, fast, and unstoppable.

Not really, I'm generally comfortable when defending and I keep clean sheets more often than not (I play on 5* btw).
If anything I would have liked Konami to make the strikers a BIT more accurate. Sometimes I really do feel sorry for the Ronaldo's and Henry's when they can't find a way past my defence so all they do is blast a shot from outside the box which usually ends up unbelievably high and wide for players of their calibre.

- I should be allowed to control the way a player tackles; the CPU shouldn't decide it for me. I never intend to foul, and I hate when my players go in hard without me even wanting them to. I didn't order those tackles, therefore they shouldn't do them. This happens in two forms; either when I try to go in for the ball and the computer makes my player enter over-aggressively, or when a player I am not controlling just smashes into another player. This problem carries over from WE6.
I agree with this point. In fact I find this the most annoying thing about WE/PES (I find it most annoying when playing against mates). I think they tweaked it for PES4 though.

- The shooting. When is it going to stop ? When is this stupid, senseless trend going to stop ? Why must programmers make the shooting range HUGE to make a game more realistic ? It may keep the scores down, but it makes the game less fun when I do all the work to get past the CPU players, which is already hell in its own right. I aim properly, but the CPU decides that my shot should go wide left or right, and when I mean wide, it's as if the goal was closer to the corner flag than in the center at the goal line. I also cannot stand how shots go sky-high when I simply tap a ball ! Un-f**king-necessary !
I guess that depends on the player's ability, condition, morale, weather etc...
With players like Recoba I can consistently get my shots on target even from outside the box. Overall I really like the shooting system as it is, it feels much less scripted than *cough* other footie games on market.

From time to time my strikers do miss the target when it looks easier to score... that pisses me off and I often shout at the screen "My grandma could've scored that with her left foot!"...
Having said that, how many times have we all shouted that exact same phrase when watching our favourite team on telly? ;)

At the end of the day it's all about realism isn't it?

- The incredible number of times that the CPU benefits from my numerous smashings of the post. OK, sometimes, once in a blue moon, in a real match, players may smack the post once or twice. But 3, 4, 5 times in one game ? What the hell ? I'm no creator of conspiracy theories. But f**k, come on ? Hitting the post 5 times ? That's just abso-f**k-inglutely incredible ! How the hell is it that this happens ?
Pure coincidence I'd say. In fact I can't even remember the last time I hit the post... coincidences like that DO happen in real football y'know, I remember a watching a match where Assuncao (Betis) hit the post THREE TIMES in a row from three direct freekicks just outside the area!

- The flick over the head. This is more unhelpful than it is helpful. It's involuntary, and many times the CPU can just step up and take the ball away before I can even get it to the ground. This needs to go away. It would be cool once they have the AI issues under control, for now, this is pointless.
Totally agree.


- What the hell happened to good crosses ? Why did Konami programmers choose to exaggerate crosses ? Each time I cross, it goes straight over the head of my players. It's really starting to piss me off. When I do all of the work to get down the field and I want a simple cross, and it goes all the way to the other sideline, that pisses me off ! Also, even if I try a short cross, the CPU players intercept it 90% of the time. Fix this, Konami. If it ain't broke, don't fix it in the first place.
Try crossing while holding L1, usually it will go straight to your strikers.

Originally posted by Nuno79
I was actually laughing out loud when I read the first post. The things you complain about are silly. The only aspect of WE that feels unreal to me is the commentary. Everything else is like a real football match. If you really find WE this frustrating, than maybe you don't know football as well as you think you do.

I'm glad you laughed, because that was my goal in making the first post.

Also, if you think that WE is entirely like a real football match, perhaps you have been spending too much time playing video games and not enough time on the field.

I've been playing football for nine years, and I play very frequently here at my university. I'm also a football journalist, and I'm a reporter at Goal.com for MLS matches here in Columbus, Ohio.

I know my football very well thank you :hump:

Originally posted by NerazZurRo
Try crossing while holding L1, usually it will go straight to your strikers. [/B]

I'm going to try that ! Thanks ! :D

Originally posted by TeKNoS
- The shooting. When is it going to stop ? When is this stupid, senseless trend going to stop ? Why must programmers make the shooting range HUGE to make a game more realistic ? It may keep the scores down, but it makes the game less fun when I do all the work to get past the CPU players, which is already hell in its own right. I aim properly, but the CPU decides that my shot should go wide left or right, and when I mean wide, it's as if the goal was closer to the corner flag than in the center at the goal line. I also cannot stand how shots go sky-high when I simply tap a ball ! Un-f**king-necessary !

- The flick over the head. This is more unhelpful than it is helpful. It's involuntary, and many times the CPU can just step up and take the ball away before I can even get it to the ground. This needs to go away. It would be cool once they have the AI issues under control, for now, this is pointless.

- What the hell happened to good crosses ? Why did Konami programmers choose to exaggerate crosses ? Each time I cross, it goes straight over the head of my players. It's really starting to piss me off. When I do all of the work to get down the field and I want a simple cross, and it goes all the way to the other sideline, that pisses me off ! Also, even if I try a short cross, the CPU players intercept it 90% of the time. Fix this, Konami. If it ain't broke, don't fix it in the first place.

couldn't agree more

one thing I hate in WE7I is the officiating in Master League :| the AI will foul me like 4 times in a row without a call, then when they go back and I foul them, there's no call, probably because the ref wants to make it up to me or something

this ONLY happens in ML, every other mode, the ref is fine, but in ML it's absolute ****

OK TeKNoS, I'll explain why I find you amusing.

- CPU attackers are invincible. There is no other way to describe it. They can wresle off defenders like Hulk Hogan, or The Rock. They're superhuman, fast, and unstoppable.
I have no idea what you're talking about. I always win the ball if I get a good tackle in. Matter of fact, the only time they get past me is with an intelligent play. Practice your defense.

- CPU attackers dive if approached even in the slightest form of a tackle. This is wrong. I don't understand what the Konami programmers were thinking here. It's frustrating when I'm trying to simply take the ball away from a player and he falls down when my player gets close to him. Sometimes I don't even press any buttons and CPU players fall down. This is poor programming, and either it's a joke, or they dropped the ball. This leads to my next point.
OK now, maybe you didn't know this but you can tackle without hitting the X button. The X button mostly closes you in on the attacker. Players falling over little touches happens all the time in the REAL game. You should know this, I thought you were a reporter.

- I should be allowed to control the way a player tackles; the CPU shouldn't decide it for me. I never intend to foul, and I hate when my players go in hard without me even wanting them to. I didn't order those tackles, therefore they shouldn't do them. This happens in two forms; either when I try to go in for the ball and the computer makes my player enter over-aggressively, or when a player I am not controlling just smashes into another player. This problem carries over from WE6.
Again, I have no idea what you're talking about. I mean we'd need to add more buttins to the controller to make you happy. If I stand still and stick my foot out when someone is running past me, they will fall. You don't have to run full force into someone to knock them over. Again, practice your defence. The key is to have good timing just like in REAL football.

- The shooting. When is it going to stop ? When is this stupid, senseless trend going to stop ? Why must programmers make the shooting range HUGE to make a game more realistic ? It may keep the scores down, but it makes the game less fun when I do all the work to get past the CPU players, which is already hell in its own right. I aim properly, but the CPU decides that my shot should go wide left or right, and when I mean wide, it's as if the goal was closer to the corner flag than in the center at the goal line. I also cannot stand how shots go sky-high when I simply tap a ball ! Un-f**king-necessary !
I know what you're talking about here and I know what causes it. The horrible accuracy is caused by trying to shoot at full pace or shooting when a defender is right beside you pushing you. Those are the only two times that it happens to me. Slow down and shoot or shake the defender and then shoot. There is the off chance that you may score in those instances, but it greatly diminishes your accuaracy(you know like in REAL football). OK, here's where I really started laughing. You are NOT tapping the ball if you send it sky high. You are smashing the button like an angry gorilla. Calm down and your shots will stay low. I always seem to get the height I want in my shots. Just practice some more.

- The incredible number of times that the CPU benefits from my numerous smashings of the post. OK, sometimes, once in a blue moon, in a real match, players may smack the post once or twice. But 3, 4, 5 times in one game ? What the hell ? I'm no creator of conspiracy theories. But f**k, come on ? Hitting the post 5 times ? That's just abso-f**k-inglutely incredible ! How the hell is it that this happens ?
You're a sports writer aren't you. The best thing about sports is that they are unpredictable. Hitting the post 5 times in a game is believable. Anything can happen. Players miss wide open nets in REAL football. Now if you're hitting the post 5 times in every match, then you got problems.

- The flick over the head. This is more unhelpful than it is helpful. It's involuntary, and many times the CPU can just step up and take the ball away before I can even get it to the ground. This needs to go away. It would be cool once they have the AI issues under control, for now, this is pointless.
First of all, it's not involuntary. if you're holding back when the ball is at knee level, you'll do the flick. You need to control your first touch better. Don't just hold a direction before you even have the ball. First touch is very important, sh*t even Fifa knows that.

- What the hell happened to good crosses ? Why did Konami programmers choose to exaggerate crosses ? Each time I cross, it goes straight over the head of my players. It's really starting to piss me off. When I do all of the work to get down the field and I want a simple cross, and it goes all the way to the other sideline, that pisses me off ! Also, even if I try a short cross, the CPU players intercept it 90% of the time. Fix this, Konami. If it ain't broke, don't fix it in the first place.
If every cross was perfect than REAL football would be a high scoring game. Well timed and weighted crosses do wonders. you can't just hit cross and expect someone to get on the end of it. Look before you cross and try different types of crosses. Heck if you want perfect crosses every time than go play Fifa 2000. I used to score bicycle kicks every time I crossed the ball in Fifa2000. Just practice.

If you know football as well as you claim, then how come you don't understand these simple things?

Originally posted by Nuno79
I have no idea what you're talking about. I always win the ball if I get a good tackle in. Matter of fact, the only time they get past me is with an intelligent play.

Good for you.

OK now, maybe you didn't know this but you can tackle without hitting the X button. The X button mostly closes you in on the attacker. Players falling over little touches happens all the time in the REAL game. You should know this, I thought you were a reporter.

Thanks for assuming what I do and don't know.

I don't use the x button unless I need to.

Players don't fall over ALL the time in real games. Players receive knocks and they fall down from time to time.

In the game though, the average sequence is five seconds of wrestling an attacker, until they give up and fall down. That's "REAL" football ?

Again, I think you spend too much time playing video games.

Also, I am a reporter, thanks for acknowledging that :)

Again, I have no idea what you're talking about. I mean we'd need to add more buttins to the controller to make you happy. If I stand still and stick my foot out when someone is running past me, they will fall. You don't have to run full force into someone to knock them over. Again, practice your defence. The key is to have good timing just like in REAL football.

Of course you wouldn't know what I'm talking about :D

If you were to agree with me, then you wouldn't be trying so hard to argue.

Also, your response was lame. Add more buttons to a controller ? How long did it take you to come up with that one ?

I know what you're talking about here and I know what causes it. The horrible accuracy is caused by trying to shoot at full pace or shooting when a defender is right beside you pushing you. Those are the only two times that it happens to me. Slow down and shoot or shake the defender and then shoot. There is the off chance that you may score in those instances, but it greatly diminishes your accuaracy(you know like in REAL football). OK, here's where I really started laughing. You are NOT tapping the ball if you send it sky high. You are smashing the button like an angry gorilla. Calm down and your shots will stay low. I always seem to get the height I want in my shots. Just practice some more.

I love how you continue to use "REAL" when you refer to football. From your posts, it doesn't seem like you really have a grasp of reality in any way.

Anyway, I do slow down and shoot, and the accuracy is still off at times.

Also, I've been playing the WE series for years. I know about sensitivity in the controls, and timing and controlling the amount of pressure to apply on a button.

I'm not slamming my finger down on buttons when I play, and the shots can still go out of control. This also might be because of the players I use. They have high shooting power.

I'm glad you can get the height of any shot you try. Sadly, I'm out of doggie treats, so I can't reward you at this time.

You're a sports writer aren't you. The best thing about sports is that they are unpredictable. Hitting the post 5 times in a game is believable. Anything can happen. Players miss wide open nets in REAL football. Now if you're hitting the post 5 times in every match, then you got problems.

Yes, I am a sports writer. That involves watching multitudes of matches.

I've also watched matches for years. I'm a fanatic, and have been since I was young.

Very rarely have I ever seen a match in which players hit the post more than 3 times.

I guess I've got problems :o

First of all, it's not involuntary. if you're holding back when the ball is at knee level, you'll do the flick. You need to control your first touch better. Don't just hold a direction before you even have the ball. First touch is very important, sh*t even Fifa knows that.

Wrong.

I am talking about when the ball bounces toward my player and he proceeds to flick it over without me touching any button.

This happens mostly during interceptions or when receiving a pass, long before I can control the player. It's already happening once the cursor gets to him.

Thanks for being a jackass again and assuming you know everything. Your credibility continues to go down.

If every cross was perfect than REAL football would be a high scoring game. Well timed and weighted crosses do wonders. you can't just hit cross and expect someone to get on the end of it. Look before you cross and try different types of crosses. Heck if you want perfect crosses every time than go play Fifa 2000. I used to score bicycle kicks every time I crossed the ball in Fifa2000. Just practice.

When did you ever see me write that I always wanted perfect crosses ? Another example of something you've come up with all on your own.

I do try different types of crosses - anything from far post, near post, and low crosses. I even use chips and any other thing that the situation commands.

The problem I am talking about is when players release a powerful shot without any direction from me. When I have no control over the way a player crosses, or how powerful the shot is released, that's a poor job on the programmer's part.

Again, play previous versions of WE and you will see the difference. Crossing in WE has never been "perfect," and it has always required good timing and practice. However, in WE7 more control has been taken away from the user.

If you know football as well as you claim, then how come you don't understand these simple things?

Another assumption and completely stupid, senseless question.

It's really hard to argue with someone that consistently assumes, and believes they know everything.

You don't know me, you have no way of knowing what I know, and how much I know.

Instead, you simply assume. It shows your poor character, and your lack of ability to communicate properly with others.

Perhaps that is why it appears that you may be spending lots of time playing video games and show that you really don't know what "REAL" football is.

- Joe ;)

joe, have you played pes4 ?

You're being a pain in the a$$ Joe. I hate typing alot, but you're forcing me too.

Here we go again......

1. First off I don't know you, I just base my opinions on what you give me.

2. In WE players DO NOT fall all the time. I've been playing it for years too. They fall based on how you tackle them and sometime they dive. The player controlled player dives sometimes too(have you noticed). And watch a La Liga match and you'll know what I mean by diving all the time.:crazyboy:

3. You said you want different ways to tackle. I think WE does a great job with the two buttons it uses. I hear it's even better in WE8. What other tackles do you want?

4. OK, it's been years and you still suck at shooting. Congrats.

5. You got problems.

6. Buddy I'm just basing my answers on the info you've given me. It's never flicked automatically for me so again, you got problems.

7. The crossing in WE7 is more difficult. I agree:) . At first anyway. After i got the hang of it my crosses have gotten real good. In WE6 you can run in a straight line down the wing and cross. In WE7 you have to turn in a little an then cross. It helps the accuracy alot.

8. Joe. I know football too(like most other posters in these forums[WE fans ecspecially:D]). Just because you're a writer doesn't mean you understand it better than me or anyone else. I came to my conclusions based on your posts. From your posts it sounded like you were having dfficulties mastering simple(to me at least) things in WE. You say they're bad, I say they are realistic. I watch the game, I play the game(for real and on the PS2), and I understand the game. Just relax, don't get bent out of shape. It's just a game. It not an exact duplicate copy of the real thing, but it does a damn good job at it.

Originally posted by Nuno79
You're being a pain in the a$$ Joe. I hate typing alot, but you're forcing me too.

Here we go again......

1. First off I don't know you, I just base my opinions on what you give me.

2. In WE players DO NOT fall all the time. I've been playing it for years too. They fall based on how you tackle them and sometime they dive. The player controlled player dives sometimes too(have you noticed). And watch a La Liga match and you'll know what I mean by diving all the time.:crazyboy:

3. You said you want different ways to tackle. I think WE does a great job with the two buttons it uses. I hear it's even better in WE8. What other tackles do you want?

4. OK, it's been years and you still suck at shooting. Congrats.

5. You got problems.

6. Buddy I'm just basing my answers on the info you've given me. It's never flicked automatically for me so again, you got problems.

7. The crossing in WE7 is more difficult. I agree:) . At first anyway. After i got the hang of it my crosses have gotten real good. In WE6 you can run in a straight line down the wing and cross. In WE7 you have to turn in a little an then cross. It helps the accuracy alot.

8. Joe. I know football too(like most other posters in these forums[WE fans ecspecially:D]). Just because you're a writer doesn't mean you understand it better than me or anyone else. I came to my conclusions based on your posts. From your posts it sounded like you were having dfficulties mastering simple(to me at least) things in WE. You say they're bad, I say they are realistic. I watch the game, I play the game(for real and on the PS2), and I understand the game. Just relax, don't get bent out of shape. It's just a game. It not an exact duplicate copy of the real thing, but it does a damn good job at it.

See, I liked this post much better. You were sarcastic, but more civil. However, you still made assumptions and misinterpreted things I said.

To start off, I don't think I suck at shooting when I average 110 goals in Master League play. I think that's pretty damn good, considering the CPU only gets about 40-50 at the most.

I never said that because I am a writer I understand it better than you. I said that I know my football well because it is part of my profession to know the game.

I also don't think that you can deduce how much I know about a sport based on how I play a video game. I think that was very poor judgment on your part.

Anyhow, things happen differently in the game for each one of us. If you want to determine that everything I'm doing is because of error, great. That's your opinion.

I know how I play the game, I know what mistakes I make and I catch myself. However, I also know when I did not do something and things happen inside a game that are out of my control.

If you want to be an elitist and categorically deny everything I type, you're entitled to it. I'm not going to argue you with you anymore, it's pointless. Everyone can have a separate opinion, and I can live with that.

Anyway, I do play very often, and in years past it would be very rare for someone to find me without a ball at my feet. Now I play at least twice a week and I hope to keep it up during winter. I'm a very technical player and I play my game based on observation and attention to detail. This is the reason I am critical of a game that I consider unrealistic in some aspects.

I also think the series is great - I wouldn't be playing it if I didn't think so. I think it does an excellent job, and you can ask anyone close to me that I've continually recommended the game over and over again, because of how fluid the players' movements are and how it captures the essence of a real football match better than any other video game ever released.

Finally, I'm really not bent out of shape. I've reiterated throughout the whole thread that the post was a tongue-in-cheek rant and was meant to be laughed at.

I began to get mad when I received the childish responses that I've learned to expect from the children (young and old) on this forum over the years.

That's all I've got to say on this. I've wasted too much time on this topic :D

- Joe

In the end we both love WE/PES and that's what truly matters. PES4 is supposedly even better so reserve your copy now dammit so we can play online(PC). ;)

Originally posted by Nuno79
In the end we both love WE/PES and that's what truly matters. PES4 is supposedly even better so reserve your copy now dammit so we can play online(PC). ;)

I'm glad things took a turn for the better :)

Do you know where I could find out some information on the requirements to run it and where to buy it ?

Also, what gamepad would you recommend ? There's one at a store close to where I live that has all of the buttons that the PS2 gamepads have, and I'm thinking of getting that, or an adapter for the gamepad itself

- Joe

Requirements: http://www.soccergaming.tv/showthread.php?s=&threadid=111708

Where to buy for $40(shipping included): www.gamesplanet.co.uk

I use the Nyko Airflo. It's kinda big, but it still feels comfortable. I also heard the logitech rumblepad is good.

Originally posted by Bummy_JaB
CPU cheats????? Konami has made this game easy cuase of bitch ass cryers like u. Just play the game and stop your bitching. hopefully WE9 would be 10x harder than WE8.

stronglly agree, the cpu of we7 is really a piece of ****, the difficulty is far too easy. Even wih China, I still can beat 5 star Brazil in a 15 minutes match at about 70% rate. It is so boring to win such weak rival like the cpu, hope KONAMI would consider to make the game harder and harder in the later series.

Originally posted by Bummy_JaB
CPU cheats????? Konami has made this game easy cuase of bitch ass cryers like u. Just play the game and stop your bitching. hopefully WE9 would be 10x harder than WE8.

LOLz bummy u go right for the bone (not that one?!:crazyboy: )

Listen man, Im all for voicing your own opinion on a game. But after like a million threads on how the game is too easy or how the game is too hard gets boring and annoyin.

Just leave it how it is and if u think its too easy BOOST Defensive stats by 10 or if its too Easy than do the opposite. There is a reason why the editing is there on this game, use it to your liking

Originally posted by Bummy_JaB
Listen man, Im all for voicing your own opinion on a game. But after like a million threads on how the game is too easy or how the game is too hard gets boring and annoyin.

Just leave it how it is and if u think its too easy BOOST Defensive stats by 10 or if its too Easy than do the opposite. There is a reason why the editing is there on this game, use it to your liking

I agree...i edited stats for PES 2 which made the game much better...

TeKNoS

I understand exactly what you're talking about and I often feel the same way too when playing the game...when stone cold sober.

The trick with PES/WE is to alter your state of mind (various substances can help you achieve this) and the game does become so much more realisitic. You start to appreciate why they have programmed it so that you hit the post when you think you're sure to score, when you fail to win a tackle you think you should have won.

The truth is that in real life, footballers do screw things up when you can't believe they could. If everything happened exactly as you play it, every pass goes straight to the man you want it to, every shot goes exactly where you want it to, the game would become boring. Players make mistakes and PES simulates this, albeit that it frustrates the hell out of us.

But when I think about it, watching my real team at football, I feel the same frustration. The manager feels the same frustration when his team make silly passes or create a great chance but miss. Players screw up in real life, and so they do in PES.

Also, bear in mind that 3 stars is the natural level for the game (ie, the break of the ball is closer to 50-50, you have a more realistic chance of scoring easy chances). When you crank it up to 6 stars (PES4), the bias clearly favours the cpu team. This means some alterations to the laws of physics to ensure the break of the ball falls more for the cpu team, your chances of a shot or pass going where you want are reduced, etc. It's 6 stars....it's supposed to be challenging so they program in challenges....not 100% realistic but it's only computer code, not reality.

PES is a beautiful game but only when you're in the state of mind which allows you to overlook the cpu cheats.

Guys:

OK this is weird - since I only got WE7 about a month ago and was playing on 4 stars, I upped it finally to 5 stars after finishing at the top of a national team league undefeated.

It's easy ! The crazy CPU runs are almost absent, the tackling is easier, it's not as hard to dispossess, etc

I wonder if they make 4 stars harder on purpose to make the game more balanced on 5 stars.

I've played against Brazil, France, and I'm currently beating Argentina 3-0 in the first half.

Hmmm...strange

- Joe

Originally posted by TeKNoS
Guys:

OK this is weird - since I only got WE7 about a month ago and was playing on 4 stars, I upped it finally to 5 stars after finishing at the top of a national team league undefeated.

It's easy ! The crazy CPU runs are almost absent, the tackling is easier, it's not as hard to dispossess, etc

I wonder if they make 4 stars harder on purpose to make the game more balanced on 5 stars.

I've played against Brazil, France, and I'm currently beating Argentina 3-0 in the first half.

Hmmm...strange

- Joe

im so tired of people bitchin about this awesome game, i don't really know whats your perspective of football, maybe that's why Fifa sells so good, cuz there are people who don't really know how to appreciate a good game...

i don't think its healthy for us people to be arguing with Teknos, prolly he just doesn't get the game at all...so why try to argue with him....

Originally posted by manutd12
im so tired of people bitchin about this awesome game, i don't really know whats your perspective of football, maybe that's why Fifa sells so good, cuz there are people who don't really know how to appreciate a good game...

i don't think its healthy for us people to be arguing with Teknos, prolly he just doesn't get the game at all...so why try to argue with him....

You're kind of late to the thread

If I didn't "get" the games and I didn't like them, I wouldn't buy them

I don't even buy FIFA games, so where are you coming up with that ?

Don't just pull **** out of your ass for the sake or argument, you make yourself look like a fool


Learn to read all posts in the thread before you make useless posts :)

- Joe

Originally posted by TeKNoS
Guys:

OK this is weird - since I only got WE7 about a month ago and was playing on 4 stars, I upped it finally to 5 stars after finishing at the top of a national team league undefeated.

It's easy ! The crazy CPU runs are almost absent, the tackling is easier, it's not as hard to dispossess, etc

I wonder if they make 4 stars harder on purpose to make the game more balanced on 5 stars.

I've played against Brazil, France, and I'm currently beating Argentina 3-0 in the first half.

Hmmm...strange

- Joe

Then try to win the WC with China...then comeback...muaha...

Originally posted by aqua
TeKNoS

The trick with PES/WE is to alter your state of mind (various substances can help you achieve this) and the game does become so much more realisitic. You start to appreciate why they have programmed it so that you hit the post when you think you're sure to score, when you fail to win a tackle you think you should have won.

PES is a beautiful game but only when you're in the state of mind which allows you to overlook the cpu cheats.
LMAO couldn't have said it better myself! :mrpimp: