i just can't believe the lack of ability that is found on Europeans. South Americans are much better.

then explain why there are only two respectable south american teams and so many more european teams with great skill?

I just can't beieve the amount of crap some people talk!

astolfo, i guess you also share Italy82's wisdom and knowledge of soccer, yeah, gotta laugh at those crappy europeans, whoa, I mean what a lack of ability, I mean look at them, Zidane, Berkamp, Beckham, Del Piero, Vieri, all those guys are sooooo crap, and what about those crappy european national teams with their crappy european players, what about that French national team of little ability, yeah astolfo you're absolutely correct, there's a complete lack of ability found in european players, that's why France are world champions....

what a moron......

btw, I'm not insulting South American soccer players, there's just as many great South American football players as there are european ones....

Astolfo you lost! Rob_0606 joke was better! http://www.soccergaming.com/ubb/smile.gif

no not "just as many great players as in Europe" it's there are more great players in South America than in Europe.Proof you say. i dont need it, you see it everyday when your watching footie on the telivision. the top European clubs have south american players even the mediocre ones have them.Brazil and Argentine players are the most exported world wide.they can be found almost in every league,and i still havent mentioned the great players that play in their domestic leagues and the youth players wich are scouted by Euro teams. astolfo says that the European players lack ability but i think he was refering to the ability to play with the ball to the ground and do dekes and fakes and try to take it past three players.This same question was asked to Sir Bobby Charlton about a year ago when he made a trip to Argentina.he said it was becuse of the climate..that in europe because its cold players run more and pass the ball faster and hold it very little and that in south america its hot so players run less and hold the ball longer so they become more skill full in doing fakes ect.. maybe its true look at the African player their very skillfull !!!

"Proof you say. i dont need it, you see it everyday when your watching footie on the telivision. the top European clubs have south american players even the mediocre ones have them"

Hmmm, the reigning European and World Champions don't have any South Americans - but I see what you're saying, and I agree partially, that some of the most exciting and skilled players on the planet are from South America, but I truely believe that an equal amount are from Europe. Yes, you say that the top European Clubs and even the mediocre ones have South Amercians (Middlesborough perhaps, LOL), but they also have Europeans that play just as important a role. Let's take Barcelona for example, Rivaldo, quite simply, is magnificient, but you can't say that the multitude of Dutch players on that team, Cocu, Kluviert (spelling) etc, as well as the other players have less ability or impact. Look at Zidane and Del Piero, on their day they are every bit as influential and skilled as Rivaldo. Surely Vieri, is every bit as equal right now as Salas. This is not an attack on South American players, but merely a defense of European players. In my mind there is no inferiority, only equality. As for Bobby Charlton's theory, it is quite interesting, but it doesn't explain why the Dutch play some of the most beautiful football on Earth.

I agree with Mark,

Anyone that can make a statement like that knows fack all about football!

If European players are better than South American players .. tell me why in 16 World Cups, 8 have been won by South Americans teams (Brazil 4, Argentina 2, Uruaguay 2) and eight by European Teams. (Italy, Germany 3, England, France 1) I think its not a matter of who's better, its a matter of which style is more effective. The style of Latin American teams are more of creative, possession and individual type of football. One needs to look no further than the magic that Pele and Marradonna (spell) put on, and the great lineage that followed. In European football, its more team orientated, like the Dutch, German and Italian teams. Of course the real fun come when you mix the two philosophies. Like in Roma or Lazio. And they are pretty successful teams. So, it all depends on your nationality or personal preference. I personnally think that if so many Latin American players hadnt left, maybe South American teams would be just as good as European teams. Imagine Cruzerio with both Ronaldo and Rivaldo??? Come on!! Or River Plate with BatiGOL??? Geez ...

Im sorry ,but there are more european players legends than south Americans.
Im not saying Pele or Maradona sucked.They were good ,but Woody said that their werent any europeans legends .Well Woody ,its bull**** .You seem to have forgotten players such as Dino Zoff ,who at 40 years of age helped Italy win their third World cup in 82 or Muller and Beckenbauer who helped Germany win the World cup in the 70's.Who cant forget Zinedine Zidane who helped France winning the 98 world cup.A lot of people complains about dives .Statistics shows that South Americans are the ones that cheat in soccer.Look at Ortega .Everytime he touches the ball ,he falls .

I also forgot to add ,you keep saying that South America have the best players .I say European player and south american players are equal.First example ,Vieri easily beats Salas .As you all know ,they both played in Lazio last season .Salas played 28 games and scored 15,meanwhile Vieri played 20 games and he scored 13 or 14 .Dont forget guys like Bergkamp,Zidane,Del Piero,Bierhoff,Beckham,Inzaghi,Schmeichel,Buffon,T huram ,Dessailly, and many more.

Eduardo makes a valid point, they are some of the best exported players in the world, just look at Estoban Fuentes, he played for Derby, oh wait a minute, he was deported , not exported, just forget that I said anything okay.

And Didi in 58! And Kempes in 78 and Romario in 94! And Bla, and Bla, And Bla!
Look at the two side of the coins before you say something Italy82.

I dont understand what you people are arguing about. you answer to a topic posted by some yahoo with half a brain who makes stupid provocativie statement. The statement is so stupid in the first placee it needs no reply. Its like trying to argue with a guy who still believes Earth is flat or some stupid thing like that, pointless...

I shall attempt to put an end to this argument wich seems to be going in circles.First European players are just as good as South American players but yes there has to be a but.but there are more players in South America.Here is why,European clubs are full of foreigners thus limmiting the number of local talent and the majority of the Euro countries are small (Germany,Spain,France)smaller population less players.In South America, Brazil and Argentina leagues they probably have two to three foreign players thus more opportunities to local talent to shine also because many players are taken to Europe at a young age example Esnaider,Ronaldo,Denilson,Marcelo Zalayeta,Piojo Lopez,Recova,Santacruz,ect theres always room for younger players.all the players i mentioned arent even twenty five and theres allready a fresh new batch of them Europebound (Ronaldinho Gaucho,Riquelme,Aimar,Saviola,Alex ect and there not even 20 yrs old... About the woodenleg heres my thought on this in Latin America back in the day the players with the fanciest footwork made the team where in Europe its allways been more physical and teamwork so most of the time the hardest worker made the team...hence more fancy players From South America this doesnt make them better but their more noticible and every now and then you get one thats so damn good hes virtualy unstopable like Pele,Maradona,Garrincha...but Europ has thir fair share of great ones Cruyf,Beckenbouher,Zoff...and each continent has eight world cups each so there bla bla bla and so on and so forth and thats all Edoardo has got say about that !!!!

[This message has been edited by Edoardo (edited 12-24-1999).]

European countries are not "small", and they have 50 countries while S.America has 10:

Russia and Brasil have about same population, 150 million. Argentina and Colombia have population of little over 30 million each, while Germany has 80 milion, France, Italy, UK, Ukraine are at about 50 mil each, Poland and Spain have about 40 million each, well you get the point....

Total European population is a little over 700 million, while total for S. America is about 300 million.

With the exeption of Russion they are small...you can drive across Spain in one Day...also to have total population of 40 million is small..Mexico City alone is like 20 million and in the hole country you can fit in Germany,France,Spain,Holland,England and there still be plenty of room...you say 50 countries but not all of them play top notch footie. and most are tiny like san marino the maldives...Anywas if theres more people then that means more footballers so why do the Euro teams keep getting South American players.and before i forget a country does not have to be big in size to have a vast population just look at japan...

Hey LORD,
what about Cruyff in the 70's,Paolo Rossi for Italy'82,J.Klinsmann and L.Matthaus for Germany'90 ,Roberto Baggio in '94.Lord,I think look at the other side of the coin.
Hahahahaha.
One thing ,who cares about the population,look at China ,they suck.

Italy82:
South America 8 WC
Europe 8 WC
So... 8 Great players for everyone.
Shut up now and go look for Santa Claus...

About the pop China have much more pop but... SOCCER IS NOT THE 1Th SPORT THERE! Shut Up again...

Polish you have to undestand, in Europe you could have 100 Millions people, but 30% plays soccer.
In South America you could have 80 Millions but 90% plays soccer.

SOMEONE NEEDS TO TAKE ITALY82 (STOP LIVING IN THE PAST) AND STICK A FOOTBALL RIGHT UP HIS CANDY @$$. I NEVER SAID THERE WERENT ANY EUROPEAN LEGENDS!! PLEASE, IN YOUR TWISTED LITTLE ITALIAN MIND, PLEASE TELL ME WHERE I SAID THAT!! POINT IT OUT TO ME YOU LITTLE FREAK! I HATE IT WHEN PEOPLE SAY I SAID THIS, WHEN I DIDNT SAY IT! SHOW ME! I AM A BARCELONA FAN! I LIVE AND DIE WITH THEM! HOW CAN SAY THAT THERE ARENT ANY EUROPEAN LEGENDS WHEN SO MANY PLAYED FOR THEM??? JOHAN CRYUFF, JOSE MARI BAKERO, LADISLAO KUBALA, RONALD KOEMON! THEN THERE ARE OTHERS, LIKE MULLER, FRANZ BECKENBAUER, YES, DINO ZOFF DID A LOT OF GOOD THINGS. BUT YOU OBVIOSULY DIDNT READ THE REST OF MY MESSAGE, SO PUT YOUR DISLIKE FOR SOUTH AMERICAN TEAMS BEHIND YOU, AND LOOK AT THINGS RATIONALLY, DIFFERENT COUNTRY, DIFFERENT STYLE. IT DOESNT MATTER WHO HAS BETTER PLAYERS, JUST WHO HAS A MORE EFFECTIVE SYSTEM. b

by the way, In 94 Baggio hit the crossbar, in 98 DiBaggio went over the crossbar, does that mean the "Baggio" in Italian translates into "crossbar??" Just something to think about.

Woody ,i just want to tell you ,that penalty shootout doesnt prove that your a better team,it just proves that your better in penalty kicks .Remember Brazil never beat Italy in 94 ,11 against 11.

Btw,its not Dibaggio,its Dibiaggio

I just want to mention that the first few World Cups were biased and many (good) teams did not participate because of topics unrelated to soccer. For example England, who might have won the first half-dozen cups if she had participated, or Italy which missed many of them.

Btw, South American players might appear to be better, on the whole, because the best ones get incredible coverage. If every quality European (Zidane, Bergkamp, van Basten, Beckham, Schmeichel, etc...) would come to play for, say, Corinthians or River Plate, people would know much less about them. People seem to ignore the fact that multitudes of teams have Brazilian and Argentinian players in them. A local team where I live, a 3rd division in a country with sucky soccer, has 1 or 2 South Americans.

I'm just saying, in every team with a South American star, there are usually 3 or 4 European stars as well...

Lord if you think only 30 percent of people in Europe play soccer I think you've never been to Europe, because at school age its more like 95-98 percent who played, at least where I lived...

I didnt say populations had anything to do with how many good soccer players you produce, just look at Uruguay or Holland, just that its very misleading to somehow say there is not that many Europeans, bacause as a matter of fact there twice as many Europeans as Americans even if you include Mexico(don't put USA into this equation as so few people play soccer here.)