Ok, its driving me crazy that if I play a quick stand alone match I can win on 6 stars usually by two or more goals, but If I'm in League mode every match ends in a tie, regardless of the difficulty!!!!!!! I just played 6 ML matches that were all 1-1 or 2-2 ties on four stars. And the most frustating part? In four of those matches I was winning with less than 5 mins (gametime) remaining!!!

Gah!!!

Sorry, just venting.

I don't buy this "The computer Cheats" complaint that a lot of people seem to mention on here.

If you have an organised defence with players who are somwhat non-fatigued you should be able to defend a lead in the dying minutes.

All so look at real life soccer, a lot of goals actually get socred at the end of the 1st or 2nd half cause thats when things are at their most franetic.

Just get the formation right, organise your defender and dont panic .... you should be good most of the time.

You just need more practise. The COM is too predictable in my opinion.

The CPU does cheat, end of..

I did a test, I went Inter Milan on 3 stars and played some poor German side, I had red form while they had gray..

And funilly enough, they still outran all my players, every pass was inch perfect, they could turn quicker than I could say ***** off*..

Like he said, playing single match is easy, playing in the ML is harder because the CPU cheats, and in the ML cup it is atrocious to say the least, even on 3 stars..

It doesnt matter who you go or who you play, you still get beat for speed by every player on the opposing team.

And when you have about 20 shots with 13 on target you get 1 in the goals, as the keeper is supreme..

But when the CPU runs up to your box and gets their first shot, it goes in without fail because my keeper doesnt even move for it.

Even with headers, I played with England against Australia and Campbell never once won a header, even though he was probably the biggest on the pitch.

And Owen was getting destroyed for speed by TONY VIDMAR!!..yea sure, thats very realistic.

People just cant admit the game isnt perfect, some can get on with the cheating but some cant, when 100/100 loose balls go to the CPU, when you get outran by every CPU player, when you walk into the ball and it goes 60 mph over the by-line..and when you score and they score right after you..

There is nothing you can do, you get the ball, it ends up at there feet, you slie tackle, its a fk, you wlak into the ball, it either goes over the by-line or to their feet..

If your lucky yo get the ball, you punt it away and it goes to them..

It really is the biggest pile of **** I have ever seen, all the games I have played and none come close to unfairness than this game..

I only play it because its still the best football game to date..

People can live in there dream worls and believe the CPU doesnt cheat, but if you actualy look at the game then you will realise they do.

http://kingpug.sphosting.com/Cheats.zip

Game doesnt cheat huh?..and as usual the first 2 are in the SAME GAME..which is funny because its also a ML..and even funnier..THE DIVISON 2 CUP!!!!

I have to say the game doesnt cheat much in the ML, although it still does, its when you get to the cups you get the full blow.

Amazing huh?..considering they get a fk when you WALK into them, and they do this and nothing happens..

Btw thats only a fraction of what happens, if I was to save a replay everytime I got cheated I would have gb's upon gb's of avi files.

You are all a bunch of whingers...if ya want to win 6 - 0 every game then go and play FIFA.

For me, part of what makes this game both great and at times utterly frustrating is the fact most games are tight and you really have to work hard for a win...

I can at time see when the CPU is going to score if things are not going its way, but I have never seen too many cases where there is outright cheating taking place....

cheating is not really the right phrase to use in this case as well!!

I dont think the Konami guys are sitting back laughing at these posts going.. OUR CODE BEAT THAT LITTLE 14 YEAR OLD AND NOTHING HE COULD HAVE DONE WOULD HAVE HELPED BECAUSE MY CODE ASWAYS WINS!!!

The game is great and as close to perfect a soccer game there has ever been....learn to loose every now and again and learn to get frustrated!!!!

Or better yet...learn how to play the game and not suck so much at it :)

ROFL another retard..why is it that when people deny the game cheats they have to say its our abilities?..

I dont suck, I can win on 6 stars, but the game pisses me of which results in me playing on 3, because the game doesnt cheat as much..

If cheating is not the right phrase, then wtf is?..

Did you see thos videos, you trying to tell me thats normal ****in football??

Asshole.

Originally posted by JohnPublic40k
Ok, its driving me crazy that if I play a quick stand alone match I can win on 6 stars usually by two or more goals, but If I'm in League mode every match ends in a tie, regardless of the difficulty!!!!!!! I just played 6 ML matches that were all 1-1 or 2-2 ties on four stars. And the most frustating part? In four of those matches I was winning with less than 5 mins (gametime) remaining!!!

Gah!!!

Sorry, just venting.

hahahaha!!!! you suXXors! I am teh l33t!!

I didn't necessarily say that the computer cheated. I do think its a little odd that in ML they are able to pull off a last minute come from behind tie in most matches I play, but se la vie. I was just venting a little and pointing out how much harder I think the game is at the same difficulty during league or ML play rather than a stand alone match. My assumption is that there is some sort of "come from behind" script written into the game. This is very common in sports games. It gives a leg up to whomever is trailing in the match, whether it be the player or the cpu. It makes the matches close, and that's a good thing. At this point though, I'd much rather take a dozen landslide defeats than see the cpu tie me in stoppage time over and over.

On a side note, thank you to those that so illustriously pointed out how much I suck and how amazing you are at the game, your posts have been a tremendous help to me, not to mention very comforting. I can only hope that this post will also be followed by someone calling me childish names and telling me to go practice. My one request is this: please make an effort to follow grammar and spelling rules that are mildly reminiscent of those used in the English language.

"please make an effort to follow grammar and spelling rules that are mildly reminiscent of those used in the English language."

Why?..this is a game forum, not a test for university, if you want to sound like a posh tart, then go ahead, but on forums not many people bother about using proper grammar to such an extent..

Of course the COM cheats. Whatever way u put it. But that's the best way KONAMI can do to make the game challenging so far. You can always play online with human or invite a few m8s to have a game with you.

I only said that as a REQUEST that an EFFORT should be made, and it was not directed at you

I know it wasnt at me, but it just seems a bit silly requesting that no?..

And yes, the game only cheats to make it fair, but it doesnt have to do it this way.

Even when you run with the ball and your about to pass, your player stumbles over absolutely nothing, its just disgracefull to say the least.

Oh you posh tart John Public you.:D Yes, I'm with you about those amazing comebacks CPU manages to do all the time in ML and, yes, CPU cheats like no-good cheating bastard son, but as you said, it seems that this is the only way to make game more difficult using the same ol' engine.

But they dont have to cheat you from start to finish, maybe every now and then...

Originally posted by spiteri
You are all a bunch of whingers...if ya want to win 6 - 0 every game then go and play FIFA.

:rockman:

The cheating is a pisser but mainly because it comes in half-way through a match.

Don;t mind those games where the cpu is in turbo mode right from the start...at least you know what you;re up against.

Really starting to get bored with 80% of matches against cpu where you completely dominate and the cpu just can't get into the game, but when you finally score, the cpu decides to to boost it's stats and reduce yours, and lo and behold, it scores......zzzzzzzz.....boring.........fine once in a while but the game engine relies far too heavily on this tired old and very obviously cheating tactic in nearly every match.

I know why they do it.....it's often said that a team is at it's most vulnerable to conceded a goal right aftert they've scored. Konami have implemented this but taken to an unrealistic extreme. Fair enough if they want to give the cpu team a quick boost but this disabling of my players in complete guff. Nothing worse than pressing direction and super-cancel desparately just trying to get your guy to move towards the loose ball rolling past his feet and he does that statuesque gorilla posture instead of running, until the cpu guy gets the ball and suddeny my guy can move again......completely pathetic coding - it's like having a racing game and if you're winning, the cpu decides to make your steering wheel stop working for a few seconds...oh look, you've crashed...bad luck....

Hey Konami, how about having the cpu in turbo mode right from the start of the match? That way, if I don't like 6* turob-mode, I don't play it. But what I do object to is playing a 5* match and then when I score, it suddenly becomes a 7* match to allow the cpu to score and make it "exciting". It's not exciting, it's tedious.

I have absolutely no idea what you guys are bitching about. I've been having a blast playing Master League and building up my team.

Seems like you guys are choking worse than Inter. When I go 1 or 2 up I usually get more chances on goal because the computer is pushing up more to try and score.

I only ever get frustrated with myself. If I'm not concentrating, it shows in the scoreline.

If you honestly don't enjoy playing PES4, stop playing it. As for me, I'm in football heavan.

Oh man, aqua, I couldnt agree more..

Me and my cousin play 2 player ML on the PS2 and on 6 stars, now while the CPU cheats like god knows what, we still win almost every game..

The problem is concentration, others seem able to carry on playing despite the cheating, while I certainly cant, and will not..

I play this game for some fun and enjoyment, not to play a game and when I finally manage to score with 10 minuts left, for the CPU to turn into maniacs and my players to turn into 5 year old girls..

And they score, and you are left fuming with rage, like aqua said, it is tedious..

And like he also said it would be better if they cheated from the start, so you could drop the difficulty level..

But its easy during the game, untill you score when it turns impossible, and putting the level down would result in boring games..

Or even if my players stayed the same when I scored, but they turn into paper cutouts, where I tell them to pass and they dont respond, where my defenders all stand still while the CPU rips them apart and scores..

To me this is far from fun.

Originally posted by kingpug
Oh man, aqua, I couldnt agree more..

Me and my cousin play 2 player ML on the PS2 and on 6 stars, now while the CPU cheats like god knows what, we still win almost every game..

The problem is concentration, others seem able to carry on playing despite the cheating, while I certainly cant, and will not..

I play this game for some fun and enjoyment, not to play a game and when I finally manage to score with 10 minuts left, for the CPU to turn into maniacs and my players to turn into 5 year old girls..

And they score, and you are left fuming with rage, like aqua said, it is tedious..

And like he also said it would be better if they cheated from the start, so you could drop the difficulty level..

But its easy during the game, untill you score when it turns impossible, and putting the level down would result in boring games..

Or even if my players stayed the same when I scored, but they turn into paper cutouts, where I tell them to pass and they dont respond, where my defenders all stand still while the CPU rips them apart and scores..

To me this is far from fun.

:confused: So you're saying the computer makes your players weaker. I going to have to disagree with you. I'm pretty good at holding a lead. Sometime I even switch defenders near the end of the game and they still can't get past me. You know, the fullbacks get tired really quickly if you run them too much. When their stamina is depleted, so are their stats. Maybe it's a stamina issue, I don't know. I don't have the same problems as you.

The CPU cheats, but not as much as some are saying here.
If you're good you can beat the CPU even when it maybe cheats.
Score a few goals in first half and he cannot catch you then, you can even trash his cheating a** ;)

For example, when i got PES4 i've started ML with Real Madrid on 5*. In three seasons I won over 80% of games, lost only few of them. It was not a challenge anymore for me (and the stadium grass sucked), so i've tried new ML with B. Dortmund (great grass!) on 6*. After about a half of the first season played i'm first with 11 wins and 1 draw (goal difference 47:16).
B. Dortmund have default players (but i changed the tactics of course). I play 15 min. matches. Highest win this season 8-1 over Parma.

Use of 1-2 pass and through balls is a must (very effective - especially after you take a lead by a 2 of more goals).

I play 10 minute games. 2-3 goal average per game. The results vary on my concentration. Sometimes I can't score. :( Other times I can't stop scoring. It really depends on whether I'm facing Barca or Malaga.

Man, I wish I had saved the goals from the Cup final with Barca. I was down 0-1 in the first half and tied it up in the 2nd. I won 2-1 in overtime with a sweet goal from newly acquired Van Der Vaart.

Aqua, you've taken the words out of my mouth. I couldn't agree with you more.

That said, I think too many people have reported experiencing this "cpu boost" for it to be imagined. If you are a PES god and therefore able to hold the cpu opponent off and win, then more power to you, but frankly I don't care what you have to say when you start your post off by taking cheap and immature shots at people. What I do care about is bringing up matters like this one and discussing them so that the NEXT pes/we is even more realistic. Every version of PES has been better than the previous. PES4 excells in so many areas that PES3 did not, but that does not mean it cannot be improved upon. It is important that gameplay issues such as this one, are brought up and discussed so that our friends at Konami might take notice and improve upon them in future releases/patches.

Perhaps it is a matter of stamina, but I cannot tell you how many times I have brought in fresh defenders and swapped to a defensive formation only to still have this happen. (And yes, I've also tried to keep my formation, as I have also tried to be more attack minded, it matters not.)

Just because someone raises a question and voices an opinion doesn't mean they do not enjoy playing the game.

I'll ask you the reader to put your pride away for just a minute and be honest. Those of you that report being able to hold off the cpu and complete the win without a problem: what difficulty are you playing on? Even if you do not experience a drop in your own players performance, do you find the cpu stepping up their own efforts? Do you find league play more challenging than "match" play?

EDIT: The two posts above this one came in as I was typing. Perhaps it is a game length sensitive issue. I have been playing 20 min matches in ML.

I'm playing Master's League on 6 stars with a mix of Spanish and Portuguese teams. I play 10 minute games.

I feel the difference between Barca and say Malaga for example. It's easy to break down Malaga, but Barca is a freaking monster to beat.

I don't think the computer cheats, I think they just attack more when they're losing. I actually find it easier to get behind their defense, cause they're pushing up so much.

I'm always monitoring my players condition and I never let them play tired.

Ok, its not frustrating any more so much as its just comical. I got home not long ago and played a few online matches, then decided to give my ML another shot. I scored in the 22' and then went on full tilt defense for the rest of the match. The cpu managed to score and the game ended in a draw. Nothing new, but I've left out the good part... they scored the tying goal with less than 2 seconds remaining in stoppage time. I swear to you, TWO SECONDS!!! I held them off for 68 minutes and they scored with two seconds left! Good times. ;)

EDIT: Perhaps somewhere deep down in my psyche I'm letting this happen. Some sort of sick, twisted self-fufilling prophesy.

Regardless of whats been said...including the jab at my non posh lingo :P ... if you think the game is ripping you off, stop playing it.

It's a rather simple solution to an otherwise non complex problem.

Was that posh enough???

I enjoy the challenge of not winning every game on 6 star, and some times I feel like throwing my joypad through the monitor, but yea...chin up fella!!!

Actually, I believe "non complex" is hyphenated. :)

I never said the game is ripping me off or cheating me in any way. You read that into my posts. I'm only saying that is very challenging and perhaps a little unrealistic. My last post was completely tongue-in-cheek and I'm sorry that you failed to see that.

Originally posted by JohnPublic40k
I scored in the 22' and then went on full tilt defense for the rest of the match. The cpu managed to score and the game ended in a draw.

You really shouldn't go defensive after just 22 min. of the match and only 1 goal up. Attack is the best defence.
The CPU is very weak in defence after you score 2 or more goals (because they change tactics to attack, check the formation screen at the start of the game and then again few times in a match, you will see that CPU changes tactics and players to catch you) - then it's (in most cases) thrashing time! ;)

Originally posted by JohnPublic40k
I'll ask you the reader to put your pride away for just a minute and be honest. Those of you that report being able to hold off the cpu and complete the win without a problem: what difficulty are you playing on? Even if you do not experience a drop in your own players performance, do you find the cpu stepping up their own efforts? Do you find league play more challenging than "match" play?

6*, the cpu tries to attack more when i'm 1 goal or more up (check the formation screen while playing). This leaves more holes in his defence which must be punished with attacking play (not the defence!!). Especially usefull are then 1-2 passes and through balls and fast players up front.
BTW, Koller doesn't play in my first eleven for B. Dortmund (he is very, very slow).

Agree with you on that, ge4ce. Attack is the best defence in Pes4, maybe even to somewhat unrealistic extent. In Pes3 you could play equaly well with various formations/tactics, both attacking and defensive as for Pes4, I've learned that crazy all-out-attack formations with few defenders placed in line and pushed to the very edge of defensive area and lots of attacking players, are the most effective way to win matches. I think that CPU gets fewer chances on your goal and doesn't make that many ''crazy throgh balls'' this way.

**** Happens :)

Originally posted by JohnPublic40k
Ok, its not frustrating any more so much as its just comical. I got home not long ago and played a few online matches, then decided to give my ML another shot. I scored in the 22' and then went on full tilt defense for the rest of the match. The cpu managed to score and the game ended in a draw. Nothing new, but I've left out the good part... they scored the tying goal with less than 2 seconds remaining in stoppage time. I swear to you, TWO SECONDS!!! I held them off for 68 minutes and they scored with two seconds left! Good times. ;)

EDIT: Perhaps somewhere deep down in my psyche I'm letting this happen. Some sort of sick, twisted self-fufilling prophesy.

I beat AC Milan 1-0(Off Season friendly) yesterday with Real Madrid's defense. They tried their hardest to score, but they couldn't get past my second string defence of Lahm, Del Horno, Heitinga, and Mejia. Only Del Horno had over 80 in defense stats. The computer doesn't lower you stats, it just attacks more ferociously like any team would in that situation.

Wow pro evo fans actually having a row over pro evo faults, i thought i was in the fifa 2005 forum for a minute.
So do you think there will be a patch to address the so called "cheating" problem , along with the goalkeeper AI problem.
Or do you think konami will do nothing, because they know people will be waiting eagerly for pro evolution 5.
I for one love pro evolution soccer and i have to admit to being a complete novice, and therefore i have to also admit that if the cpu is cheating i am to dumb to recognise it:p



Pes really does rule the roost:rockman: :rockman:

Well, I don't really think Konami sees it as a problem. I think that the computer really steps up its attack if they are behind and make harder runs for the ball, this, in turn can cause your player to trip and lose control. Its coded into the game on purpose. However, there are two things I think they could do to improve the system overall:

1. Randomize it where sometimes the cpu starts off busting its balls trying to score right off the bat instead of always waiting to fall behind or waiting until the dying moments.

2. Give all players better balance and ball control in general.

NOTICE
Please do not see these statements as complaints. PES4 has substantially better ai than PES3, and superb ai overall for a sports game.

Originally posted by JohnPublic40k
Well, I don't really think Konami sees it as a problem. I think that the computer really steps up its attack if they are behind and make harder runs for the ball, this, in turn can cause your player to trip and lose control. Its coded into the game on purpose. However, there are two things I think they could do to improve the system overall:

1. Randomize it where sometimes the cpu starts off busting its balls trying to score right off the bat instead of always waiting to fall behind or waiting until the dying moments.

2. Give all players better balance and ball control in general.

NOTICE
Please do not see these statements as complaints. PES4 has substantially better ai than PES3, and superb ai overall for a sports game.

Oh, you just like to bitch......jk ;)

The Computer cheats!

Lets think just a tiny second about this sentence...

noticed something?

YES!
It is indeed the most ridiculous excuse ever for getting smacked in a single player game. It is even better than "My gamepad did not work properly, at least in that one second".

Its a simple fact that cheating actually requires some sort of intention as a prerequisite.

So what you are talking about actually is that your pc got pissed because he was behind and then decided (prerequisite: free will) to enable some cheat and bust your a**.

It makes NO sense.
IMO this gets the unbeatabe top score for silly excuses, really.


If you complain about the difficulty, its a different thing. Yes, at higher levels cpu players may do things you can't. but thats just a way to compensate for your ability to play creatively. So its even odds, at least as nearly as possible. Actually nearer than in every footie game before IMO.

But to say the CPU cheats.. Really guys, common...


:kader:

to be honest pere, you clearly have no idea what we are talking about

C'mon Aqua, its a three page thread. Clearly our friend here is a very busy man and just didn't have the time to actually read those first two pages, so he did the sensible thing: skimmed over half of page two, read a post or two on three and told us, very matter of factly, the lord's gospel on this discussion.

Case closed.

It was the point I was trying to make.

It's not cheating by the CPU.

The program/code knows to step it up if it's behind.

How many goals have you scored on the counter in the 90th minute cause the CPU was pressing hard after going behind??

I guess we human players could be cheating from a certain point of view, I mean we do know that the CPU is going to push up and all we need to do is keep a man up front and wait for the turnover???

Is that not cheating???

Originally posted by JohnPublic40k
Ok, its driving me crazy that if I play a quick stand alone match I can win on 6 stars usually by two or more goals, but If I'm in League mode every match ends in a tie, regardless of the difficulty!!!!!!! I just played 6 ML matches that were all 1-1 or 2-2 ties on four stars. And the most frustating part? In four of those matches I was winning with less than 5 mins (gametime) remaining!!!

Gah!!!

Sorry, just venting.

I am just the complete opposite. I play in the ML on 5 stars and win most of my matches. I can score using different methods.

On the stand alone match...ALL i get is losses or draws when I play against Inter, Chelsea and Arsenal :f***: .

Maybe I score once in 2 matches and it;s always through a low cross + header and never on a one on one situation.

It's frustrating and I use the same team on ML and the stand alone match without any transferred uber player.


P.S. WRT those players who say the comp AI gets uber after going down 1-0 there is/ *might be* an explanation for it in the manual. It has something to do with your players stats, the mentality one. Players with high mentality play more aggressively and their stats go up when they're behind.

I tried playing on 5* against an average team like Blackburn Rovers. I finally scored something other than a cross, YAY :rockman: , and the AI wasn't able to counter. I saw them do funny mistakes like I used to do against teams like Inter and AC Milan and Arsenal, namely stuff like stumbling over balls, missing passes, and once the AI took a kick at my goal and missed the ball completely !!! :hump: .

So I guess it migh have something to do with player stats, namely mentality. I remember looking up mentality once in PES3 and it said something like how much harder the player will play if it is behind.

That's why there are some Korean, nigerian players for sale with great stats but are cheap. If you take a closer look you notice they have have poor stats in things like aggressiveness and mentality.

Originally posted by spiteri
The program/code knows to step it up if it's behind.


Exactly the point. The game is jsut code and the code knows exactly what the match situtation is. The code also has complete control of the physics, ball movements, player movements, player performance, etc......and it is exactly because of this that it can freely alter the roll of the ball, the perfomance of the cpu guys and your guys to "change the way the game plays half way thorugh a match".

That is the main gripe, you start out playing a match on 5*, you score, suddenly it's all change and it now on 7*. The physics has changed, your players slow down, cannot pass as accurately, lose balance, fail to move, yet the cpu guys suddenly go from playing like MK Dons to playing like Brazil.....not at all realsitic and certainly a "cheating" programmed into the game engine.

Originally posted by aqua
That is the main gripe, you start out playing a match on 5*, you score, suddenly it's all change and it now on 7*. The physics has changed, your players slow down, cannot pass as accurately, lose balance, fail to move, yet the cpu guys suddenly go from playing like MK Dons to playing like Brazil.....not at all realsitic and certainly a "cheating" programmed into the game engine.

Your main gripe is wrong. I tested it. I only play 6*. I went 2 up on Arsenal early in the game yesterday. They attacked with more vigor, but they couldn't get past my second string defence(it was a ML friendly) of Heitinga and Mejia. I saw no dip in performance at all in my players. I actually got a few more opportunities on goal.

The AI is aware of it's situation in the game, however, it does not cheat. It just plays harder. Here's how I know this to be true. I played a few matches with a buddy of mine(who's also a PES/WE addict) and I felt the same pressure from him when I would be winning. Just like I gave him hell :f***: when he was winning.

I don't know if you're new to PES/WE or not, but I can guaratee you that with practice, your imaginary problems will go away.

Nuno, I've been playing siince ISS Pro Evo 2 on PSX. The need for the game engine to "cheat" has become more and more obvious with each new release of the game in order to counter the increased freedom of play from each new version.

It's 100% clear we're not going to agree.....there is nothing that you can say to change my mind, and you are perfectly entitled to have you own opinion about the game.

OK buddie. You keep worrying about the evil AI while I enjoy the best soccer game ever made.

CPU doesn' cheat???

ahahah!!

i call it cheat when a no-name defensive player with 70/80 in speed and acceleration beat Cissé with 98 in speed and 93 in acceleration. if it isn't cheating, well, your dictionary is very old.

another thing: you are running your player starts to slow up like when they foul you but ALONE. is disgusting

and, EVERY bounce ends in a opponent foot.

You are all a bunch of frigging whingers!!!

Don't play the game if you feel it's doing you an injustice!!!

Talk about not being able to build a bridge....

LOL Janer.
You Anti Bush/Blair/Sharon. And then you write Stop the illegal occupation in Iraq.
Well Sharon has nothing to do with iraq,sorry to break the news to you.

"Don't play the game if you feel it's doing you an injustice!!!"

That is not the ****in point, open your eyes for **** sake.

The game doesnt cheat when its behind, it cheats from start to finish..

You are all mad fans, you all lick Konamis arse, if you cant see the game cheats in a way you would be better off dead.

Ok, so the game doesnt cheat, so explain this:

Sol Campbell can outrun Thierry Henry, BULL****?..

If that isnt cheating, then I must be an alien.

It doesnt matter who you play, they are ALWAYS the same skilled, when I play Madrid then play Aston Villa, I dont see much of a different skill wise.

Trying to outrun a defender is trying to piss from UK to Brazil, aint gonna happen..

Doesnt matter if the defender is 17 or 38, 99 speed or 50 speed, they always run at the same pace..

But when you go a player like Cisse with 98 speed, he runs slow as hell, now WHAT THE **** is this?..if it isnt cheating what is it..

You idiots need to wake up and smell the coffee, PES4 might be the best football game there is, but that doesnt stop the game cheating to get an advantage..

You can call it what you want, but atleast we have the balls to admit this game isnt perfect.

Well I actually think the game is too easy..........

I have won the League and Champions League 3 years in a row with Aston Villa.. :rockman: :rockman:

The only cup I dont win is the League Cup and thats only because I play my subs who really really suck........

I have gotten ALOT of 1-0 wins too....So when you are defending you can always double team by holding O button......Or on every corner kick just bring out your goalkeeper and he will catch the ball if its not to far.......