PES is annoying, its not THAT realistic, a few nice moves but its still just a game

it's obviously a game with good & bad sides and nothing more so maybe you just expected too much :p

the only gripe i got on it is that they still have not put back the "hold the through ball button down to make one of your other players run forward move" it used to be in the n64 verison ISS98

Originally posted by dumarse
PES is annoying, its not THAT realistic, a few nice moves but its still just a game
Who cares what you say? You're just another fifa chump posting in the wrong section. What a waste of server space your thread is. Like you.

PES is better than fifa. Everyone knows it. :rockman:

Originally posted by Zygalski
Who cares what you say? You're just another fifa chump posting in the wrong section. What a waste of server space your thread is. Like you.

PES is better than fifa. Everyone knows it. :rockman:

where did he compare both games? u are just looking for a fight , probably u need ur head checked or something. he just stated the game is annoying which could be true sometimes.

Increase all stats by 5 points, makes it hella fun and you still have difference in that henry is still that much better than everyone else

This is PES/WE fans forum, what the hell are you doing here? GET LOST:f***: :f***:

Pes 4 still has its flaws... but at least there's something to work on for Konami

Originally posted by liljames
where did he compare both games? u are just looking for a fight , probably u need ur head checked or something. he just stated the game is annoying which could be true sometimes. I could accept his comment from someone who knows about pes or even someone neutral. But do a search and you'll see that he posts mostly in the fifa section. It doesn't take sherlock holmes to figure out his intention. It's not even a constructive post so why treat it with any respect? In future, post in the correct forum.

I agree that PES4 is the most infuriating game I've ever played. In fact I just alt-F4'd the game about 5 minutes ago during a match because i was so angry. First the opposition goalie saves EVERY SINGLE SHOT i make, about 3/4s of which were 1 on 1 with the keeper (stats at half time showed 14 on-target shots!), then MY keeper, right on 88 minutes, stands aside and lets in a header that in real life would win the "most puny header of the season" award. I'm talking about when the player misses the ball and it rolls off his shoulder. I didn't dare send a defender to collect the loose ball because given that not a single ManU player has decent control (or so it seems), they would have almost certainly run the ball into their own net. To top it all off, a red-up-arrow Van Nistelrooy, with all his 95 attack skills, managed to miss an open goal when even a kid could have finished it off. I TAPPED shoot and the power bar shot up to maximum, WTF?

Christ, I can't remember Norwich having a reputation for having the greatest keeper who ever lived, but PES4 clearly thinks it does.

This was on three star by the way, I hate to think how the computer cheats on 6 star, maybe the opposition goalie can score from a goal kick because your retarded keeper is busy humping the goalpost.

Sorry for the rant, but I'm pretty ******* angry right now.

ACtually no, I feel i have to defend myself, I bought PES 4 for a reason, and that reason was becuase I enjoyed the demo more than I enjoyed FIFA. The purpose for Forums is for discussion, there is no need to be nasty about it, I've been posting under different names since it was created and people who make stupid, aggrovating remarks should be chucked off.

I have my opinion and I wish to express it and there is nothing you can do about it, I post about PES on the PES forum and FIFA on the FIFA forum. the reason why i have mostly posted of the Fifa forums is because this is my first PES game and so wouldn't have much to say about it.

Stop being so high and mighty about a game which, in reality isn't very good (neither is FIFA) IMO! and get a life!!!

Originally posted by dumarse
PES is annoying, its not THAT realistic, a few nice moves but its still just a game I disagree with ya, play it inside out and you will not find a footy game that comes even remotely close to being the simulation that PES4 is of real footy.

Originally posted by Zygalski
I could accept his comment from someone who knows about pes or even someone neutral. But do a search and you'll see that he posts mostly in the fifa section. It doesn't take sherlock holmes to figure out his intention. It's not even a constructive post so why treat it with any respect? In future, post in the correct forum. hehe
well spotted Sherlock

Truth be told you got to play PES4 inside out and like any good game it rewards you.

games aren't really things you perservere with, you either like them or you don't, i'm not saying other people won't like it i'm not saying people have to agree with me, and no there is no other game that simulates footy better, but that doesn't mean it does it well...

Originally posted by dumarse
games aren't really things you perservere with, you either like them or you don't, i'm not saying other people won't like it i'm not saying people have to agree with me, and no there is no other game that simulates footy better, but that doesn't mean it does it well...

Darn, I am making the switch from FIFA to W11 after a bunch of years. You guys are confusing me though. So, W11 is not all that? Everyone (90% of the people) talks about W11 being an awesome game.
I hope I don’t get cold feet come Thursday!!!!!! I’m getting it for the XBOX. I guess I’ll have to see for myself then. I’ll let you guys know what an ex-FIFA fan thinks by next week.

How long have you had the game for? I can assure that it's tough at first, but once you get into it, you will see it true beauty.

Originally posted by Nuno79
How long have you had the game for? I can assure that it's tough at first, but once you get into it, you will see it true beauty.

I have never played W11 before. I am planning on buying it this week (if I find it in Best Buy, Circuit City etc...). I have the last 7-8 FIFAs though. I'm tired of FIFA...
I'm giving W11 a chance.

Originally posted by Brett
Darn, I am making the switch from FIFA to W11 after a bunch of years. You guys are confusing me though. So, W11 is not all that? Everyone (90% of the people) talks about W11 being an awesome game.
I hope I don’t get cold feet come Thursday!!!!!! I’m getting it for the XBOX. I guess I’ll have to see for myself then. I’ll let you guys know what an ex-FIFA fan thinks by next week.

Listen. I was like you at one point. But after years of aggravation from Fifa I couldn't take it anymore. I bought WE6I two years ago and saw what a real Football game is. No more silly restictions. You can choose your FK/corner taker on the fly. The gameplay is only limited by your imagination. You can edit everything. You can tell Roberto Carlos to stay back and defend or just attack down the wings. You are in control. I can go on all day. Your going to really like it. It's tough at first, but once you get the hang of it, you'll be in Football heavan.

Originally posted by Nuno79
Listen. I was like you at one point. But after years of aggravation from Fifa I couldn't take it anymore. I bought WE6I two years ago and saw what a real Football game is. No more silly restictions. You can choose your FK/corner taker on the fly. The gameplay is only limited by your imagination. You can edit everything. You can tell Roberto Carlos to stay back and defend or just attack down the wings. You are in control. I can go on all day. Your going to really like it. It's tough at first, but once you get the hang of it, you'll be in Football heavan.

See, that is why I'm leaving FIFA. The ability to edit different stuff makes me get goose-bumps man!!!!!!!!! FIFA 2005’s has a very weak editing system (to me it is non existent). I will finally be able to play with team that I can create myself. Who cares about licensing if you can’t use your imagination with you own game.
Thanks for the encouragement… $50 is money, know what I mean?
I mean I already stopped playing with my FIFA 2005 (just boring).

The biggest flaw with PES is that the cpu basically decides everything. It's not based on objective laws of physics. The whole thing is just a huge AI script with some input from the human player. At times you can almost see the lines of computer code in operation as the AI engine conveniently arranges things to fall in a certain manner, no matter how improbable and physics-defying.

I long for the day when they have an AI model built around a genuine and unprejudiced physics model.

I never stop playing Winning, unless it's to play a game like Metal Gear Solid 3. Even then I still play Winning. This game will keep you hooked until the next installment is released.

Originally posted by zagga
The biggest flaw with PES is that the cpu basically decides everything. It's not based on objective laws of physics. The whole thing is just a huge AI script with some input from the human player. At times you can almost see the lines of computer code in operation as the AI engine conveniently arranges things to fall in a certain manner, no matter how improbable and physics-defying.

I long for the day when they have an AI model built around a genuine and unprejudiced physics model.

I disagree with you. I feel the game is only limited by the players imagination. Results and scorelines vary. Goals are rarely ever the same. Different players score the goals. Sometimes a pass goes through, other times it doesn't. You are exaggerating a problem you think you are experiencing, IMO. Give me details and also how long have you played te game for?

No, I think zagga's right. A few examples:

The difference between playing games at home or away is só big, it's unbelievable. At home, your players move about twice as fast, win twice as many duels and get a free kick when they fall. Playing away, let's just say winning becomes 5-10x harder, no matter how weak the team you play against is. And this feels scripted. The referee is simply a homie. And some penalty kicks given are just ridiculous.

And how about through passes. If the CPU tries a high through pass, it always connects. It seems my defenders are too lazy to react.

And as a reaction to Janer: no, the game doesn't reward you when you get better. You can pound a team the entire match and still manage to lose because of stupid goals that feel scripted.

Anyway, I'm still quite addicted to the game and will now return to my season with Arsenal on 6 stars.

I've been playing the game since ISS Pro Evo 2, about 4 or 5 years. I'm not experiencing a "problem", as you put it. After years of playing the game, I have gotten to know the methods and tricks that Konami employ, so have learned how to counter them. I still get much enjoyment out of the battle of my skills against the computer scripts.

I am merely making an observation. To me, it is obvious that the physics model is not a true physics model but a subjective psuedo-physics model. The game is essentially a bunch of numbers being fed into an AI engine and it is clear that at times, these numbers are adjusted in order to engineer certain situations, rather than have a genuinely free and open game.

Originally posted by Simmers
No, I think zagga's right. A few examples:

The difference between playing games at home or away is só big, it's unbelievable. At home, your players move about twice as fast, win twice as many duels and get a free kick when they fall. Playing away, let's just say winning becomes 5-10x harder, no matter how weak the team you play against is. And this feels scripted. The referee is simply a homie. And some penalty kicks given are just ridiculous.

And how about through passes. If the CPU tries a high through pass, it always connects. It seems my defenders are too lazy to react.

And as a reaction to Janer: no, the game doesn't reward you when you get better. You can pound a team the entire match and still manage to lose because of stupid goals that feel scripted.

Anyway, I'm still quite addicted to the game and will now return to my season with Arsenal on 6 stars.

Please take no offence. I'm just disputing your claims.

1. I beat Mancherster United 6-0 at Old Trafford. It could have scored more.

2. Does it suprise you that the AI has better timing than you do?

3. Stupid goals are rare in my experiences. I might get a couple scored on me during the season, but then I watch a live Real Madrid game and realize that it's normal.:crazyboy:

4. Keep on playing, brutha.

Originally posted by zagga
I've been playing the game since ISS Pro Evo 2, about 4 or 5 years. I'm not experiencing a "problem", as you put it. After years of playing the game, I have gotten to know the methods and tricks that Konami employ, so have learned how to counter them. I still get much enjoyment out of the battle of my skills against the computer scripts.

I am merely making an observation. To me, it is obvious that the physics model is not a true physics model but a subjective psuedo-physics model. The game is essentially a bunch of numbers being fed into an AI engine and it is clear that at times, these numbers are adjusted in order to engineer certain situations, rather than have a genuinely free and open game.

Oooookkkkkk......Isn't that what any game does? It adjusts itself to give you a challenge. I still win most of the games. It's not like it cheats to win. I rarely ever feel cheated when playing. I'm normally mad at myself for doing something dumb and messing up a goal opportunity. I think you're being a bit over critical.

No, not every game is like that.

Admittedly, I play very few games. In fact, the only other type of game I play is racing sims and I only ever play on-line against other humans, never against AI. But in these games, you are presented with a physics model which attempts to simulate reality and then lets you get on and play within the objective rules of physics. The difference with play on-line is that there is no need for AI and so no need for "cheats" to be introduced in order to make up for the limitations of AI. Football, on the other hand, has 10 other guys that need to do things whislt you try to control one guy. The whole game is literally smothered in AI, and it shows.

So, it is not a fair comparison, but that does not mean that that the AI in PES is not lacking.

And me being overly critical? If I had said that PES was complete dross, that would have been overly critical. I simply pointed out the obvious fact that it has a subjective psuedo-physics model with events conveniently engineered in an attempt to make up for the deficiencies of the AI.

Perhaps it is you who is being overly defesnsive?

And I certainly reject outright your claim that the gameplay is only limited by your imagination. Whilst the game is far superior to other football titles, you are implying there is no limit to the game engine. That is quite simply a ridiculous assertion. For starters, let's not forget that the game only has 8 directions of movement and passing.

Originally posted by Nuno79
Please take no offence. I'm just disputing your claims.


But you didn't get them in the first place, did you?

For you fanboys it's always that people who complain are complaining because they can't win. Then you always tell us those stories about how cool you are and how you beat Manchester 6-0 on level 6 and that it's all about "practicing", dude.... man, you are way cool i have to say...

BUT IT IS NOT ABOUT WHINNING OR NOT. I win this game most of the times. level 5. If i don't win i draw. So what? I still stopped playing it, because of all the reasons zagga mentioned.

There is too much CPU interference, too many scripted situations, too many fishy moments disguised as "suprises" and "captivating moments". It's a gigantic pseudo thing which tries to trick you into believing that it's all free and realistic, where in reality it is not. and even if you win, it doesn't feel like you achieved it, but more like you were granted a win.

No thanks.

Konami need to revamp the A.I and stop using dirty tricks (on both the CPU and the player's side). then maybe i'll pick it up again.

for those undecided: this is my opinion. you still might prefer it over FIFA. so try it out. i am just tired of stupid unadultered fanboism...

I play alot of different games. This is just like any other game. It's AI adjusts to try and beat you. Is it perfect? No, but it's pretty damn good. Has there ever been a better soccer game than Winning Eleven? No.

This my view on it.
It challenges me. I makes me cheer when I score. I get angry at myself when I make mistakes, because I know what I did wrong. It gives me freedom to organize my squad anyway I see fit... I can go on and on.....but the reason I say that's it up to your imagination is based on one of my observations.

When I play late at night, I really suck. Basically because I'm sleepy and not concentrating. When I'm wide awake, the things I do in the game are a beauty to watch. I use my imagination to score. It doesn't always work, but when it does I score spectacular goals. Of course it not just imagination, though. You do need to know what you're doing and have an excellent feel for the controls.

The game gives you a sense of realism, because of the random events that occur in each game. Each one is different. Each goal is different. I've been playing this game for a while and I'm still trying new things.

I thought id better put my opinion in...

Ive played PES since its first incarnation in ISS on the SNES, and then on to the playstation. Every year it has got better but i do feel this year they took a backwards step IN SOME departments.
The game is definetly more action/ attck based and while i thrive on it i feel defensivley the game has gone backwards. PES3 i was defensive god. i could rely on CPU controlled palyers doing their bit. PES4 my mates have carved through passes from their own half and my defenders have let one-on-ones happen. The CPU defence is worse IN MY OPINION. I feel i have less control over the defence as a unit. Attack excellent, like the dribbling. Early days it was impossible to get past players. I do feel konami are moving more towards the old ISS on the N64, the now new ISS branch off. Also i have, and been victim of bery bad goalie AI in PES4. many shots the keeper has been rooted from 25/30 yards and watched the ball curl in withour blinking an eylid. This does however not stop my enjoyment of the greatest footie game on the planet. It cant be perfect, or FIFA wouldnt even be around to mount a challange to the more kiddie/arcadey kind of footie fan (meant with respect and not inciting a PES v FIFA debate).

Originally posted by simakperrce
But you didn't get them in the first place, did you?

For you fanboys it's always that people who complain are complaining because they can't win. Then you always tell us those stories about how cool you are and how you beat Manchester 6-0 on level 6 and that it's all about "practicing", dude.... man, you are way cool i have to say...

BUT IT IS NOT ABOUT WHINNING OR NOT. I win this game most of the times. level 5. If i don't win i draw. So what? I still stopped playing it, because of all the reasons zagga mentioned.

There is too much CPU interference, too many scripted situations, too many fishy moments disguised as "suprises" and "captivating moments". It's a gigantic pseudo thing which tries to trick you into believing that it's all free and realistic, where in reality it is not. and even if you win, it doesn't feel like you achieved it, but more like you were granted a win.

No thanks.

Konami need to revamp the A.I and stop using dirty tricks (on both the CPU and the player's side). then maybe i'll pick it up again.

for those undecided: this is my opinion. you still might prefer it over FIFA. so try it out. i am just tired of stupid unadultered fanboism...

1. How was I bragging? He said that the AI favors home teams and I gave an example proving him wrong. He says it's difficult and I dispute it. It's not bragging. I'm just saying that it is possible.

2. Did you ever make it to level 6? Just out of curiosity.

3. Name a better soccer game than Winning Eleven.

Originally posted by stonecoldkiller
I thought id better put my opinion in...

Ive played PES since its first incarnation in ISS on the SNES, and then on to the playstation. Every year it has got better but i do feel this year they took a backwards step IN SOME departments.
The game is definetly more action/ attck based and while i thrive on it i feel defensivley the game has gone backwards. PES3 i was defensive god. i could rely on CPU controlled palyers doing their bit. PES4 my mates have carved through passes from their own half and my defenders have let one-on-ones happen. The CPU defence is worse IN MY OPINION. I feel i have less control over the defence as a unit. Attack excellent, like the dribbling. Early days it was impossible to get past players. I do feel konami are moving more towards the old ISS on the N64, the now new ISS branch off. Also i have, and been victim of bery bad goalie AI in PES4. many shots the keeper has been rooted from 25/30 yards and watched the ball curl in withour blinking an eylid. This does however not stop my enjoyment of the greatest footie game on the planet. It cant be perfect, or FIFA wouldnt even be around to mount a challange to the more kiddie/arcadey kind of footie fan (meant with respect and not inciting a PES v FIFA debate).

Now you make more sense. While these other guys are talking as if the game is horribly cheating them. The goalie f's up sometimes(rarely for me). It's a game sh*t happens. As for the crappier defence, I think we can attribute that to better through balls. Through balls in WE7 were awfull. Through balls do exactly what I ask them to do in WE8 which makes it easier to score sometimes. However I do believe the defence is still solid.

Nuno,

I will not try to argue with you. We are both fans of this great game after all. We just have some differences of opinion.

I do agree with you that there are games where you are in a better frame of mind and jut see things in the match that result in a chance or a goal that you might not have seen in another day when you are not "in the zone". The game is full of beautiful moments. And even now, after all these years of playing, I still get excited when I score, even when I score that 6th goal in a easy 6-0 win :). It brings much joy and I would not wish to be without this game.

The game has it downsides, it's black moments of evil some of us find hard to ignore whilst others either don't notice or choose to ignore. But they are definitely there. I might have doubts of their existence if nobody else mentioned them, but because so many of us independently notice these nasty little cpu ploys, they clearly do exist.

And to the guy considering whether or not to buy the game, I would say without hesitation to do so. You will find much to admire.

I gotta agree with nuno on this. All games are different, and variety is the key. Every game feels unique, as does every goal. I feel the game is way easier then PES3 though, and think maybe this is due to worse AI on the defence side. Maybe Konami are trying to attract more followers, as i know several people who were intimated by the skill required by the old games, the old ''you play on 5 stars, im only on 3!!''. I do win games easier then before but then enjoy doing a world cup with say, iran or someone for the challenge. I think that PES4 is the more mature gamers choice, with the less passionate and hardcore being enticed by FIFAs smart-packaging, poor-product approach.

Originally posted by zagga
Nuno,

I will not try to argue with you. We are both fans of this great game after all. We just have some differences of opinion.

I do agree with you that there are games where you are in a better frame of mind and jut see things in the match that result in a chance or a goal that you might not have seen in another day when you are not "in the zone". The game is full of beautiful moments. And even now, after all these years of playing, I still get excited when I score, even when I score that 6th goal in a easy 6-0 win :). It brings much joy and I would not wish to be without this game.

The game has it downsides, it's black moments of evil some of us find hard to ignore whilst others either don't notice or choose to ignore. But they are definitely there. I might have doubts of their existence if nobody else mentioned them, but because so many of us independently notice these nasty little cpu ploys, they clearly do exist.

And to the guy considering whether or not to buy the game, I would say without hesitation to do so. You will find much to admire.

Agreed. I know the AI does what it has to do to challenge you. I see as a challenge, while you really try to get to the root of it. Either way it rarely bothers me. Just those times where the keeper doesn't move on a slow shot, but those are rare. Whatever it's doing, it must be doing it right because I can't seem to put the controller down.

Originally posted by stonecoldkiller
I gotta agree with nuno on this. All games are different, and variety is the key. Every game feels unique, as does every goal. I feel the game is way easier then PES3 though, and think maybe this is due to worse AI on the defence side. Maybe Konami are trying to attract more followers, as i know several people who were intimated by the skill required by the old games, the old ''you play on 5 stars, im only on 3!!''. I do win games easier then before but then enjoy doing a world cup with say, iran or someone for the challenge. I think that PES4 is the more mature gamers choice, with the less passionate and hardcore being enticed by FIFAs smart-packaging, poor-product approach.

Agreed. Mature soccer fans want their freedom when it comes to tactics. I love that I can set every AI player to do what I want. I don't think I ever saw Roberto Carlos come up and attack in Fifa.:kader:

Originally posted by Nuno79
Now you make more sense. While these other guys are talking as if the game is horribly cheating them. The goalie f's up sometimes(rarely for me). It's a game sh*t happens. As for the crappier defence, I think we can attribute that to better through balls. Through balls in WE7 were awfull. Through balls do exactly what I ask them to do in WE8 which makes it easier to score sometimes. However I do believe the defence is still solid.

yea i agree the through balls are better in PES4. Konami sort of like focused on attack for the new season and bought in new strikers and not improved on the old backline (good analagy i think). Im glad someone else has had goalie problems, however they are more frequent when your mates are madrid/ man u etc and you're everton to give them a challange!
PES series can only get better and im sure ill be there next season with my debit card!

Originally posted by stonecoldkiller
PES series can only get better and im sure ill be there next season with my debit card!

I have no doubt. Imagine what they'll do with the power of the PS3.

Ya see skeptics, THIS is a discussion!

well done people your making me proud!!

;)

On the Through ball ... it does not perform well..


My MD on the ball , hold down the THBALL and with my forward on the shoulder of the defender the ball goes 20odd yrds just in front of my forward..

But while playing with the same player in the same game my forward is only 6 or 7yrd in front of me on the shoulder of the defender, Im looking to hit this THBALL beyond the 2 of the for my forward to run onto ... forget it! The THBALL travels all of 7yrds and the defender gets it...


Its like the old passing or the normal pass in 4 , if you have a player 4/5yrds in front of you and a cpu player to the side of him I hit pass and because my player is close the ball trundles and is 9 times out of 10 cut out!!

Would love to see manual passing with power bar on the normal B pass button and not the one you have just now were you have try and move the right analog stick with the thumb I use to press the buttons with and bend my hand round to press the manual pass button with the finger I use on the R1 and R2 button..

Ive played games years and I mean years ago that had a power bar for passing the ball...