They lost to Slovakia at home! 0-2.

LOL!

They have really turned the corner.

gaffer:
it is ok, let them loose against slovakia, we will loose against france. france is a world class team with brazil. sometimes the turkish national team plays so well and sometimes they don't, like for example last year we beat germany and tied them in germany, but this week we lost to france 4-0, but there is something that the turkish national team never looses to san marino, albania, north ireland, azarbeyjan etc, and this is the truth about our national team

Chris16?

"Friendly"

Thats all I have to say, does this loss make us lose out on WC 2002? NO

Does this lose mean anything? NO

It is exactly that a FRIENDLY. The players haven't played together in a while due to injuries and it showed, they played like sh*t.

They were more concerned about not getting hurt than trying.(because of our club teams EUROPE play).


Yes it is dissapointing but it means nothing...


GET A LIFE!

Gaffer,

THEY ARE A PRACTICE GAME!!!!!!!!!!!

THEY DON'T MEAN A DAMN THING!!!!!!!!!!

They are for "experimenting"! They are for the coach to get a look at differen't formations and younger players!

---------------------------------------------

Galatasaray,

I quote: "This team we lost to france 4-0, but there is something that the turkish national team team never looses to san marino,albania,nrth irealand,azarbeyjian etc, and this is the truth about our national team"

Well I guess u don't know your NT:

January 1998-Antalya, Turkey

Turkey 1-4 Albania!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
------------------------------------
January 1998-Antayla,Turkey

Turkey 0-4 Isreal!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

-------------------------------------

October 14,1998-Intsanbul, Turkey


Turkey 1-3 Finland!!!!!!!!!


Next time, know before u speak!!!!!!!

Chris
what do you mean beating germany means nothing. man germany is a world class national team. we beat them for the qualification to the euro 2000. and that does mean something.

and i told you were going to mention your injuries and some other things like "they did not play together" or "it is only friendly game", you think, you are always right, but not exactly correct.

what ever
lets stop this stupit topic

What the hell are u talking about??

When did I say u beating Germany is nothing? A friendly doesn't matter, IN A EURO OR WC COMPETITION IS WHERE IT MATTERS!!

And how about that 4-1 lost to Albania!!!!!!!!

Seems u didn't comment on that???

[This message has been edited by Chris16 (edited 11-16-2000).]

Bottom line is Greece sucks! Trust me, in a meaningful game Turkey would beat them easily.

Use your brain next time before you make idiotic statements like Greece 2, Italy 0.

SLOVAKIA 2 GREECE 0.

[This message has been edited by gaffer (edited 11-16-2000).]

---------------------------------------------
THEY ARE A PRACTICE GAME!!!!!!!!!!!

THEY DON'T MEAN A DAMN THING!!!!!!!!!!

They are for "experimenting"! They are for the coach to get a look at differen't formations and younger players!

---------------------------------------------

Galatasaray,

I quote: "This team we lost to france 4-0, but there is something that the turkish national team team never looses to san marino,albania,nrth irealand,azarbeyjian etc, and this is the truth about our national team"

Well I guess u don't know your NT:

January 1998-Antalya, Turkey

Turkey 1-4 Albania!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
------------------------------------
January 1998-Antayla,Turkey

Turkey 0-4 Isreal!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

-------------------------------------

October 14,1998-Intsanbul, Turkey


Turkey 1-3 Finland!!!!!!!!!


Next time, know before u speak!!!!!!!
---------------------------------------------
Originally editted by Chris16

Well, Chris the scores of matches you wrote above were also practice friendlies. So as you said, they don't count!!! I appreciate that you knew the dates and places of the games though!

Chris16:
don't name me the past and i never herd of these scores, probably they were friendly mathces.
and besides weren't you guys to tell me that past does not matter. what it matters is now. i am talking about now, don't be a smart ass. there is no way albenia will beat us, no way. but you guys lost to alban too bad

how the hell did you editted Hagi's post???????

Greece 2 Italy 0,

Yes Panathinaikos won Juventus 3-1 and PAOK won Udinese 3-0!!!!

THATS WAS A REAL COMPETITION!!!!!!

Not a FRIENDLY!!!

------------------------------

Those games that Turkey lost (except Finland) were friendlies, bu since u seem to make it matter so much I thought I'd post them! If they don't matter, then how come u guys are bashing Greece? What, it only doesn't matter when it happens to Turkey>>>?

GET REAL!

You know, and I know, friendlies don't matter!!!


PS Gala, what do u mean how did I edit his post??

Gaffer,

WHat the hell gives u the right to insult my country bitch???

F*CK YOU!!!!!!!

Chris16:
look who is talking
you started it man, with your non sence joke.
so stop being a smart ass about us insulting your country. you had a laugh about us loosing 4-0, isn't that rude.
and don't name our friendliessss as you have said




[This message has been edited by GALATASARAY (edited 11-16-2000).]

Thats was just it A JOKE. Nothing more, it doesn't mean anything!

Obviously u all have some deep innder issues about the subject because u couyldn't take one little joke!!!


And about the edited message u fool, think ok, use your brain. I know it's hard but try, he COPIED what I said, and at the end he said "origianlly eddited by chris16". He was stating what I said! It's not possible for me to edit his post smart guy!

sheesh!

And does a joke give someone the right to totally insult someone's county??

I know their are better f*cks then that bitch Gaffer. So I never insulted Turkey as a country because I have respect for it.

But all I have to say is, WHO HAS MORE TEAMS IN EUROPE RIGHT NOW???

GREECE OR TURKEY?

GREECE!!!!!!!!!!!!

So it seems Greece is totally whooping Turkey in Europe...If we suck as a football nation, what does that make Turkey???

GAFFER (or should I say gayffer)

Why are u so racsist man? This isn't about football, this is about your hatred towards Greece. You can see it in your posts. U don't give a damn about football, juts how much u can kurse Greece!

GAFFER IS A RACIST!

[This message has been edited by Chris16 (edited 11-16-2000).]

Chris16:
don't ****in call me a fool, i am getting pissed. i am not a fool, isn't that putting someone down. well let me guess, because i am a turk and thats why you have to call me a fool. well about your joke, it was not a very good one. how would you react if i made that joke on your national team? let me guess. you would say that we are insulting your national team with that joke, isn't that right.
and no one is a fool.

Gala,

What the hell do u think I have been doing since Greece lost to Albania?? Taking complaments?? lol

I have nothing against the Turkish people. I could really care less about them. But when someone insults me, my county, and my people, I don't care if your Turkish,Gemman, English or whatever I am not gonna take it!

PS Sorry for calling u a fool, u didn't really disrespect me. I apologize...

Anyway I am done with this stupid topic. It is obviuosly for racists like Gayffer...

Chris16:
ok we are friends.
the reason i am not offending you because, i have greek friends, may be i have mentioned this before, and they are cool people. we are getting along well. we also have friendly arguments between us. but i havn't seen them for 6 months now because they are sduying in the US.

I know the feeling...

No hard feelings.

Chris16 is a moron. I don't know who you think you are, dickwad, but everyone knows that greece is in the lower echelons of Football nations.

And they won't qualify for WC 2002.

Who the hell is everyone??

YOU?? because you are the ONLY one that HAS EVER TOLD ME that Greece is on the same level with Albania...

Obvously u don't what the hell your talking about, so stop talking out of your arse!!!

You don't know a damn thing about Greek Football, because we are the 8th best League in Europe! And we are perfoming VERY WELL in Euorpe at the moment. 1 *Friendly* result aint gonna change that smart ass!

GET A BRAIN!

8th best in Europe? Whatever.

Italy, Holland, Czech, Spain, France, Germany, England, Portugal.

Where does Greece fit in that 8?

You have no idea what you are talking about -Greece would probably be on par - maybe - with Turkey, Switzerland and Wales.

No better.

YOU F@ACKIN IDIOT!!!!!!!!!

IT SHOWS HOW MUCH U KNOW!!!!!!!


UEFA RATES GREECE 8th IN EUROPE!!!!!!

Here it is:
www.xs4all.nl/~kassiesa/bert/uefa/crank01.html (http://www.xs4all.nl/~kassiesa/bert/uefa/crank01.html)


Now do you realize how much u know about fooball???? Whan an imcompent little fool u are!!

8th thats right 8th!!!

THAT SHOULD SHUT U UP!!!

nough said...

So whats your response to that?

Germany also lost to Denmark today, does that mean anything? NO

Oh and hey how mant Turkish teams are still in Europe??? 1

How many Greek:4

Did your teams survive the 1st round of the Uefa Cup? NO

Yet ALL 6 of ours made it to the 2nd round, now we have 3 in the third!


gaffer?

Funny - Slovakia didn't have a problem in the Friendly!

Greece is terrible as a soccer nation - bottom line. There are in the lower echelon of Europe's nations - I guess below Slovakia.

Remember you started this by saying Greece 2 Italy 0.

By the way the Germany result does mean something - that they are in a state of change with german national side. Friendlies don't count, but usually they do mean something or they wouldn't be played.

slovakia isnt that bad.domestic leagues not good but national teams alright, worthy chalengers i think

Chris16:
What is the greatest success of the Greek NT and a Greek club in europe competitions in history? Don't get mad at me man I don't know and I want to know it...

By the way I want to explain you why the turkish clubs other than galatasaray are not so bright in european competitions:

The 4 strongest teams of turkish league are Galatasaray, Besiktas, Fenerbahce and Trabzonspor. These 3 teams other than galatasaray are not managed professionally although they have strong squads. Every season they transfer about 6-8 players in their starting eleven and start all over again with tactics and training. The teams get unstable results until the new players get used to each other. But the fans and directors are so impacient and unprofessional that they don't wait the team play to develop and just erase everything and return to the beginning!!! But in this season, Galatasaray inspired them and they started to be managed more proffessionally starting from this season... Besiktas got bad results in the champions league because they were a new and young squad...But the managers andd the fans remain patient satying nothing to Nevio Scala. What I'm trying to say is starting from next year things will be different about the turkish clubs in european competitions unless they make same mistakes.

And finally which greek teams are still in european competitions?

I hope I made things clear. Good luck to Greece in international football competitions...

HAGI 10:
agreed, because fenerbahce spends $50-60 on player transfers, which is alot but galatasary 1-2 players a season for the past 6 seasons and the players know each other so well and thats what makes a team so sucessful.Galatasaray is not good in financially, they are in a big debt and they still won the uefa and the super cups, WHY because they got the turkish stars like hakan sukur, Okan, Emre, the romanian star HAGI and they have played together for 4 years. Look at Milan, why aren't they successful for the past 8 years, i mean they spent $100's of million dollars every year transfering new stars which 100 times better than the galatasaray's squad, samething goes for barca. they have new players coming in every year, it does not matter how bright the player is, what it matters is that the players got to get use to each other and know each other well for some period of time. this is what we have learned from Galatasaray.

F*ck, Chris16 - you are a moron!

I don't care about rankings - everyone that knows anything about football knows that they are useless!

Tell me which one of these teams is Greece better then?

Italy, Holland, Czech, Spain, France, Germany, England, Portugal.

There are at least 8 other teams Euro nations that are better as well - Romania, Ireland, Sweden, Scotland, Croatia, Yugoslavia, Ukraine.

If you think Greece is better then any one of these teams, then you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

[This message has been edited by gaffer (edited 11-17-2000).]

It really was a friendly question.
-UEFA 2000 Champions (Unbeaten)

-Supercup 2000

88 Champions cup semi-finalist (Eliminated by steua bucarest Gheorge Hagi and Gheorge Popescu played againist galatasaray-they were young star candidates that time!)

-Quarter final in champions cup (I don't remember the year though)

Anyways It doesn't seem to be a legend here maybe but turkish football is developing with the inspiration of galatasaray's successes... We'll be better in the following years. Wait and see!!!

Kostas 7:
don't start man. i argued about us not loosing in a competion/qualification games against any ****ty nation like san marino or albenia, who cares about fiendlies. we lost 4-0 to france and you guys have lost 2-0 to slovenia or slovakia what ever it is, and these were frindlies. well argument have started from chris laugh to our 4-0 loss. read my post carefully. well chris also mentioned about the friendlies are not a big deal. when i have said that Turkey would never loose to a low ranked club, what i have ment there is that, we won't loose in any competition to any low ranked clubs like you did to albania. then chris have mentioned the exibition games and i really never herd of. who watches exibition games.
i really don't understand what are you trying to prove?
read my posts and chris's posts carefully. then try to make a point.


like who cares about friendlies.

gaYffer,

Greece is 42nd. I have no problem saying that because it is the truth. The reasonwhy we droped from 30th to 42nd is because of that 1 lose to Albania. Thats why.

For your 2nd question which one of those 15countries is Greece better than them:

I think all of them have a better NT except Ireland and Sweden.(Sweden is same as ours)

I think Greece has better League than Potrugal,Romania,Ireland,Sweden,Scotland,Cratia,Yu go, and Ukraine. And on the same level as Holland. (Uefa rankings prove that)


Happy? Unlike u I will actually answer the question's asked...

Moron or Chris16,

The national team is the true strength of a nation at soccer. Just because Man Untied has been the best Club team over the past three years, does that mean that England produces the best players? NO!

If I have 5 billion dollars to spend on a team and move to Switzerland and start a club team, I can probably spend enough to be the best team in Europe - that does not mean that Switzerland is the best.

And by the way Sweden's national team is much better than Greeces'. I think they actually scored a goal at Euro 2000.

Bottom line is, Greece isn't close to being a soccer power and they won't qualify for WC 2002 and your club teams will probably be eliminated in the next round of the UEFA cup.

Chris16,
jaffer has a point my friend. i agree everything jaffer have said, but greece might qualify who knows, i mean this is soccer, the ball is round, anything can happen.

Olympiakos-out of starting 11, 7 are Greek.

Panathinaikos-out of starting 11, 7 are Greek.

AEK Athens-out of starting 11, 7 are Greek.

PAOK Saloniki-out of starting 11, 6 are Greek.

THEY ARE GREEK TEAMS, Not bought teams. The problem with the Greek NT is the coaching/Greek mentality. Nobody puts emphasis on the Greek NT, the clubs are more the popular choice. You will find the same with Spain, and those are probably the only 2 countries like that in Europe.

And about Sweden scoring goals, everyone knows that Scandinavian teams are very BORING to watch and don't score many goals. When was the last time Sweden scored 2 goals or more in a game? LOL

I agree that the NT is important to a country, but thats not what makes a country a footballing power (Look at England, Spain etc...). Sweden have NO club teams to speak of, same with Romania etc thats why they are not world powers, it's just the opposite with Greece.

But let me tell u something, NOBODY gave PAOK a chance aginst Udinese, NOBODY gave PAO a chance with Juventus and Hamburg and look what happened! THEY MADE IT!

AND THEY WILL MAKE IT AGAIN! Don't count the NT out until it's over!!!

Moron16.

You have no clue. All three Greek teams will lose! If club teams are so important, when is the last time they won a Euro Cup?

National teams and home grown players are what set nations apart from others. That is why Brazil, Argentina, Italy, France, Germany, and Holland are the leading soccer powers in the world!

Greece is nowhere to be found.

gaYffer,

Ley me ask u something:

When have I EVER said Greece was a Soccer Power?

When did I say they were on the level of Italy, France, Brazil etc?


You said we were on the same level as Albania, and I proved to u that we are not. Thats why I am arguing, what are u arguing? That Greece is not a World Soccer Power??? WE ALL KNOW THAT!

Who is the moron>>>? sheesh!

Hagi16,

Greates success for the Greek NT is making to the World Cup in 94' (we all know how that went lol).

Greatest succes for a Greek Club:

Olympiakos-making it to the Quarter Finals of the CL in 98'; 97 European Champions Cup Champion.

AEK Athens-Uefa Cup Quarter Finals 76'.

Panathinaikos-CL Semi Finals in 95'; CL Quarter Finals in 91'; Uefa Cup quarter finals 97'.

Now besides Gala winning the Uefa Cup (which is very comendable) what has Turkish Clubs done? Have they ever made an impact in the CL??

You also asked what Greek Teams are still in Europe:

Panathinaikos-2nd round of CL

Olympiakos-3rd round Uefa Cup

AEK Athens-3rd round Uefa Cup

PAOK Saloniki-3rd round Uefa Cup
-----------
Turkey?

GS-2nd round CL

THATS IT! LOL

PS You can make as many excuses as u want, but u will get credit for nothing until it's happened...Bottom line is Turkey BOMBED in Europe this year...

---------------------------------------------

gaYffer,

who's the moron? In the previous post u said where is Greece 8th in Europe, I showed u, now you are not believeing it...lol THAT IS A MORON!

I'm not saying Greece is the best damn nation because I know we aren't, but we are also NOT a BAD nation which we have showed in Europe!!!

So get a brain, AND USE IT!

Panathinaikos also played in the 1974 Champions Cup Final against Ajax at Wembley stadium.
What I don't understand is how Gala make his arguments. In the beeginning Chris said that you can base the result on the fact that it was a friendly. But Gala argued that it didn't mater and that Turhey would never lose to a low ranked club. When Chris came up the results that turkey had against some countries I've never heard of Gala's emediate response was that they were friendly's. So make up your mind Gala.

Chris16 or D*ckh*ad. Answer the question!!!!!

Which one of those teams is Greece better than???

Please answer that question and see who the moron is!!

Hey Chris16/moron!

Since you love rankings so much, these are the rankings from fifa.com for the european teams. The number on the left is the world ranking. Where is Greece?

2 France
4 Czech Republic
5 Italy
6 Spain
7 Portugal
8 Germany
9 Yugoslavia
10 Netherlands
13 Romania
14 Norway
16 England
16 Croatia
20 Scotland
21 Russia
22 Sweden
24 Denmark
26 Belgium
27 Slovakia
28 Turkey
31 Ukraine
33 Ireland Republic
36 Israel
38 Slovenia
42 Greece
42 Austria

???

Greece sucks! Remember you started this. Greece are in the lower echelon of European nations when it comes to soccer.

I PROVED THAT!!!

what an idiot!

Their are 3 classes of football in the world.

1)Italy,France,Brazil etc...

2)Greece,Portugal,Scotland,Romania etc...

3)Albania,Malta,Luxemburg etc...


Greece WITH OUT A DOUBT is not on the same level as Albania and it doesn't take a football expert to see that!


so I will say this one more time...F*CK OFF!!!!!!!!

Queer16. F*ck you!!!

Look at my posts - I never said they were on par with Albania. I would say they are on par with Wales and Switzerland. Actually Switzerland is better.

Greece is nowhere near Portugal!! Does Greece have or have ever had a player as good as Eusebio, Rui Costa or Figo? Never!! and they never will.

You do not know anything about Soccer!!!

Your posts show this. You said Greece was eigth in Europe - the rankings I showed say you are wrong.

From your reasoning - if Dynamo Kiev wins the Uefa Cup then I guess they should be ranked higher than France?

Oh lord, this boy is an idiot.


Ok, I like discussing football with people who know what they are talking about. Obviously u don't. All u are in this for is to bash Greece, fine do it all u want. In the meantime PANATHINAIKOS will beat Juve 3-1!!! PAOK will beat Udinese 3-0!!! And the results will keep on coming!!!!!

P
E
A
C
E

F*ck you!

greece sucks

Now do you have a problem with Greece or Chris?

In other words on behalf of all the Greeks.

NNNNOOOOO YOU SUCK

Kostas. I do not have a problem with Greece, just with Chris.

I'm Italian, we should stick together, but he started it - let's remember that.

I retract what I said about Greece. I apologize for that.

But, Chris16 is a moron and knows nothing about soccer.

Guys,

Do you get any prizes after you have proved that you are correct and shown that others are wrong? What do you get after you have criticised a country? What will the people in that country think? What if others criticised your country and says it sucks?

-----------
iceboy

iceboy83:
i know what you mean man, i hear you guy. they have done it alot to my country.

I retract what I said about Greece. Greece does not suck!

I was just aanoyed by Chris16 who showed his ignorance initially. Again I have nothing against Greece.

I apologize for my previous remarks.

What did I start??!!!

Who started this topic?

Who insulted who's country?

When did I once insult Italy??

hmmm?? I don't know what the hell your problem is?!

I really don't, I NEVER have spoken to u before this topic, and all of a sudden I see you kursing my country! Why? What the hell did I do to u?


???

LOL,

You don't know me asswhipe!

Did u know I write reports for www.phantis.com/soccer (http://www.phantis.com/soccer) ???

I know my god damn football!!! I have been following this sport ever since I was little!!! Both my papou (grandpa) and me are devoyted football fans. We talk almost every day when he calls me from Greece, we talk about EUROPEAN FOOTBALL!!!

So don't f*ckin tell me I don't know anything about football!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It is obvious that YOU are the one who doesn't know anything. Which u don't! I can tell by your posts, u do not know a whole lot about the sport u call "soccer" (which is FOOTBALL!!!). You also don't know a damn thing about Greece! Yet u seem to be bashing it a whole lot. So are u gonna seriously tell me u think Slovakia, Wales, Switzerland are better Footballing nation's than Greece???

Do they have ANY teams in the CL?
Do they have any teams in the Uefa Cup?
Is their league in the top-10 of Europe??
Have they ever qualified for a WC?

NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Anyone can see it! I NEVER said Greece was the best, I NEVER said Greece has the best players, but we are NOT A BAD FOOTBALL NATION!!!

If your "beef" is with me than why are u dissing my country so much???

And about the "Greece 2,Italy o" topic. Am I not allowed to be proud?? My fellow Greeks did their country proud by knocking out 2 Italian clubs who on paper are better! For many years Greek Teams would be drawn with a Italian team and they would be beat before they ever steped on the feild. You know why? Because Italy use to be so much better. Greek Teams never stood a chance against them. But now we have said no more! We are getting better finacially, our youth are doing awsome! (Went to the U-21 Finals in 98'!!!) Our teams are regualrs in the CL and Europe...We are no longer looking down on ourselves but we are moving forward!!!!! And I can't be proud???? WHY!!!!!! Because some little sh*t tells me I can't. I don't think so!!! I am damn proud of my country! My people! And I have EVERY right to be proud of them!!!!


God idiotic people like u make me so sick. You don't know a damn thing about me, my country or anything. Yet u sit here and talk out of your @ss the whole time...

Go to HELL!!!!!

And u said your beef was with me not my country...take a look at this:

the 3 topics u have posted in the FIFA 2001 forum:

Bravo Greece!

Look at the "new" Greece

England 0-1 Italy


That was your only 3 topics u have posted in. I did a search that u can do at the top of the page. 2 of them were about Greece. I never met u, yet u were dissing my country in that *Bravo Greece* topic. Tell me what I did wrong in that topic?

You even insulted the guy in that *England 0-1 Italy* topic.

It seems all u are good for is kursing off people, and starting fights!


Go to the *search* at the top page. Then type in your Screen Name and it will pop up what u have posted in and that will back up what I am saying.

Can anyone else back me up here??? Tell this guy that Greece is not on the same level with Wales! Because obviuosly it's not gonna work by me telling him...

Also, u have 22 posts in this forum. 2 were in bravo Greece, and 1 was in England 0-1 Italy. That leaves 19 posts just fighting with me and dissing my country! What the hell is your problem???

[This message has been edited by Chris16 (edited 11-20-2000).]

Chris16:
you have a point about greece becoming strong as wales, switszarland etc, but some people might have diffenrent openions. I think Greece soccer did become stronger since 94 WC. and gaffer have appologized about the words against greece. i don't know man, i think you guys should work it out.

i think i will have a big argument with gaffer too heheheh(not a fight), if galatasaray beats or at least ties against ac milan tomorrow in the CL match up(in my dreams with our injuries beating ac milan).
because i will be posting the score if we win or tie, but let gaffer post if galatasaray loses the game like 4, 5, 6 to nothing which i won't be surprised. galatasaray is not in their form these days.

[This message has been edited by GALATASARAY (edited 11-20-2000).]

I don't have a problem with gaffer.

He has the problem with me. Thats fine, because I don't really care...

You don't know anything about Football - pretty obvious because I am sure I saw Switzerland in the 94 WC! And I think they scored a goal as well.

As for the other nations - does Greece have or had anybody as good as Ryan Giggs? As for Switzerland, do they have or had anybody as good as Ciriaco Sforza was or Alain Sutter? I do not think so.

I know much more about Football then you do and I don't care if you write for a website. I watch at least 8 - 10 European Football matches per week on my dish from the best leagues in Europe: Italy, Spain, England and France.

Just the fact that you think that Greek football is on par with Romanian football besides all the evidence to the contrary shows this clearly

gaffer:
romanians are strong, good team in 94 and since.

what chris is trying to says is that Greek soccer have improved and that is true.

Gala. I would agree that they have improved, but they not on par with Romania as Chris stated. Nor are they on par with Sweden.

Like I said the strength of a club team does not mean that the representative country is equally as strong. Man U is the classic example. France is the opposite classic example. France is the power right now, but not their club teams.

But everyone can agree, I believe, that France is producing the best footballers right now followed by Brazil, Italy Argentina and Holland.

I believe we are on par with Romania.

I agree that a NT is the most important to a countries success, but a countries club teams are also part of it.

Romania's NT is better than the Greek (but Romania is getting old)

And Greece's club teams are 10x better than Romania's.

Put the 2 together (NT and Club) and they equal out. Do u see my point?

No, I do not. That makes no sense. With that explanation, England is on par with France, Spain is on par with France.

Leagues are predicated on money, mostly while NT's really show the strength of the nation. This is why the Spanish league will always be better than the Argentinian league, but that doesn't mean that Spain are ahead of Argentina, oe even equal. The main reasson why Spain has a good league is because of money - same with Man U.

So your theory doesn't wash. Try again. By the way was Greece in Euro 2000? I don't remember.

Guys .... Don't argue.

We HAVE TO ADMIT that "our" national team (Greece) is playing badly. The team has potential, but there are just a lot of facts that give the result you see. The players of the team are fine, they just don't combine too good. Something is missing from the team. This is not bad, this is football.

And I don't like the stance of Chris16. There is no point in trying to convince a forum full of real football fans that the team is good. No, the team is bad at this moment, BUT it can be improved. If all we, greek fans, try to cover the bad things of our team and say "we are good, we play nice", then this does not help the team, neither the country. It is a problem that HAS to be solved. That's all.

The real football fan knows how to win and also knows how to loose. This is the magic of football. If everyone were winners there would be no point in playing.

And closing, I would like to add a personal opinion on the team: The team does not have a good coach. The same one was coaching some years ago the Panathinaikos team and we all saw his mistakes and his lack of knowledge and experience.

I totally agree with the above post

Oh, I forgot to tell a few more things. I will reply to gaffer that said:

But everyone can agree, I believe, that France is producing the best footballers right now followed by Brazil, Italy Argentina and Holland.

(I hope you figured out from the previous post that I am from Greece :-)

You spoke with good words for France. I don't agree 100%. I admit that France has become a very strong team, but especially in Euro 2000 I wanted Holland to get the trophy. Holland was playing the ball in MUCH HIGHER football-quality than France, and generally I like the way the Holland's players co-operate.

Even in WC98 I wanted at least Holland to reach the final (ok, France was better there http://www.soccergaming.com/ubb/smile.gif

But for Euro 2000 if you told me to choose a team for getting the trophy besides Holland, I would say Portogual. Not France.

PS: Have you watched any game of Panathinaikos on the Champions League ? What's your opinion on this team ? Let's see if tomorrow with Manch.UN "we" will make a decent presence in the field :-) I want to listen some opinions from all of you guys :-) I' am curious :-)

DJ. I congratulate you on a quality post. I do agree about Portugal. I think if they one more stud on defence along with a real quality striker they would have won it all. For me Figo was the best player in that tournament along with Nesta.

I watched Man U on Saturday of this week and I beleive that Pana can come oput with a good result. I have not seen them play, but from all accounts they are playing with a lot of "grinta" which is an Italian saying that means "force" or "strength". As much as I would like to see Chris16 eat his words, I wish Pana the best of luck tomorrow.

Why does anyone diss WALES! I know we aren't world beaters, but we have good quality players. On a good day we could beat a lot of good teams, like last season we beat Norway and Denmark!

I don't have a problem admitting that our NT is playing poor at the moment. Because plain and simple WE ARE. The coach sucks, the players are not playing "together" and that is the reason for our dissapointing results.

But when someone is sitting here and just totally *not caring about football* just dissing a country it makes me very angry.

Gaffer, let me ask u. England, Spain, have ALOT of foriegners from other nations. That is why they are good right? But now answer this, what foriegners do Greece have? Do we have Rivaldo's?? Figo's?? Lopez's?? No, it's made up of Greeks. Thats why I am proud of the teams when they play in Europe. I know the NT isn't performing good, but it's not because of the lack of talent, or that Greece doesn't have good football players, it's because of Greek mentality and the Greek way of doing things. Whatsthe point of trying to sit here and explain it to u? Only a Greek would understand. I express my thoughts at Phantis all the time at the forums. Where Greeks anilyze and "see" the problem with our NT. But u are NOT GREEK, u have no buisness saying those things!


Anyway I am sick of u frankly, and just because u are playing "nice guy" for a few posts means nothing to me...

(double post)

[This message has been edited by Chris16 (edited 11-20-2000).]

Don't confuse my nice guy posts, Chris16, they are not directed at you. You are a f*cking moron!

I checked the Greek teams Pana and Olympiakos and there seems to be at least 5 foreigners on each team - and I bet they start each game. Don't try to pull a fast one on me because i know more about Football then you do. Are you still saying they are all greeks on those teams?

When has the greek national team ever played together? They seem to be in a long slump. By the way, was Switzerland in WC 94'? I think you said that they were never in a world cup. I think Switzerland got to the second round as well.

Greece is not at par with Switzerland. has a Greek club team ever won a European trophy?


[This message has been edited by gaffer (edited 11-20-2000).]

Chris16. Did you start start the other topic by stating "Greece 2 Italy 0"? I'm pretty sure you did.

I will state again that I have nothing against Greece and I apologize for my previous statements.

My only beef is with you, because you are a f*cking moron who knows absolutely nothing about soccer. I have proven that you have been wrong before and you are again here by stating that is the first time we have discussed this - please see your previous idiotic post.

So f*ck you a**hole!!

[This message has been edited by gaffer (edited 11-20-2000).]

If u don't watch the Greek League league smart @ss THEN HOW CAN U MAKE COMMENTS ON IT?????????????


Ze Elias played for Inter and Bolonga!!!

Giovanni played for Barcelona!!!

Georgatos played for Inter!!!

SERIE A clubs are interested in Choutos, Patsatzoglou, Eleftheropoulos...And thats just in Olympiakos!!!

U DON'T KNOW WHAT YOUR TALKING ABOUT SO F*CK OFF!!!!!!!!!!!! What a dumbass...

Look dammit, I don't wanna fight anymore. Because i'm sick of it.

I will be proud when we win, and I will shut up and take it when we lose. But u don't have the right to talk about my country like that.

Anyway I wish Italy and Italian Clubs the best...

B
Y
E

Ze Elias played for Inter and Bolonga!!!

Giovanni played for Barcelona!!!

Georgatos played for Inter!!!

EXACTLY! They couldn't cut it in real leagues, so they went to Greece!

By the way, I 've haven't seen any games from the Peruvian league, but I think that I can safely say that the Spanish league is better.

Was Switzerland in WC 94? I beleive that you said that they were not.

BYE.

bye, bye!

Hey Chris.They don't know anything about Greek football so they must shut their mouth.Anyway,I'm with you.

Thanks bro!

ZHTO ELLAS!

Why would you want to know anything about Greek football?

Hey Chris16! Was Switzerland in WC 94?

I guess they were! How should I know? So were we!

So what??

Answer this:

Do they have a team in the CL?

Do they have a team in the Uefa Cup?

???

I was just making sure because you said they were never in the WC. They scored in USA 94 as well and they got to the second round.

Switzerland is ahead of Greece.

And actually Lausanne is in the UEFA cup.

Wrong again, Chris. You're on a roll, continue with your incorrect statements.

What's that website you write for? My 4 year old nephew is looking for a job.

[This message has been edited by gaffer (edited 11-21-2000).]

[This message has been edited by gaffer (edited 11-21-2000).]

Hey how about the CL???

1 team in the Uefa Cup! HA!

We have 3!

And 1 team in the CL!

And our League is 8th in Europe while theirs is...17TH!

Isn't that enough proof?

Any educated football fan can see it!

Now, u are WRONG. U wanna try for 2??

Maybe u should ask that 4 year old to help u out...lol

HAHAHAHA!!!

First you said Switzerland wasn't in any World Cup and then you said they didn't have anyone in any Cup tournaments. You were wrong on both.

My opinion is that Switzerland is ahead of Greece. International results prove this. Most of the Swiss' best players play abroad and all ( or most)of Greece's players play in Greece because they can't cut it anywhere else.

[This message has been edited by gaffer (edited 11-21-2000).]

thats nice...

Lol!!!Switzerland...xaxaxa...ahead...xaxaax...Gree ce...xaxaxaxaxaxaxa.Your opinion is respectable...xaxaxa!!!

Has a Swiss??

Did Wales??

Do they have teams in the CL??

Uefa Cup??

It's a simple answer NO!

SO F*CK U gaYffer. Youy are such a little bitch, god damn I am sick of u. I know u don't know a damn thing about the sport, and I know that I am educated on it, because I AM.

So u are sitting here telling me about my team?? I'm sure u follow the Greek League and Greek football right? my mistake u must know more than me...idiot!

Pana-Forigeners that *start*:Warzycha,Saric,Henriksen,Sousa.

That leaves 7 GREEKS out of the 11.

Oly-Forigeners that *start*:Giovanni,Alvez (sometimes)Djordjevic,Ze Elias, Luciano (Sometimes)

so it's an average of 7-8 GREEKS in the line-up for OSFP.

AEK-*starters*:Ruiz,Navaz,Petkov,Feruzem.

That leaves 7 Greeks.

And that is the top 3 clubs in Greece.

But I am really sick of your sorry @ss so see ya later wanker!

F*ck you dickwad!!! I don't watch the Greek league because no-one except the Greek channel shows it and the football isn't very good!

Switzerland was in WC 94, right? Were you wrong about that? That's what I thought, you know nothing about Football. You mentioned earlier that all Greeks play on those Greek teams and now that might be different? All those foreigners couldn't hack it in the real top flight leagues like Ze Elias.

It'll be fun to watch Man U lay an ass whoopin on Pana this afternoon.

Good day, f*ckhead!