First off, I want to say that I am very satisfied with Fifa 08. It's so far the best footie game I've played, and I've played PES and Fifa for a few years, and I've even tried football management games. I did not buy PES this year and I am jumping straight from Fifa 06, so it was easy to see the improvements in a two years time, but Fifa 08, and that's just my opinion, has stepped up their gameplay remarkably. Players now move more realistically, and in terms of actions that your players can do on the pitch (types of shots, set-pieces, pks, tricks, etc.), Fifa is at least on a par with PES, except for diving. I'm not saying that diving was huge in PES; in fact, as far as I've heard, it wasn't. It has but the slightest effect on the game, and your chances of getting away with a dive are so bad that gamers rather not use it. So it's quite obvious that Konami have taken the safe route in implementing a dive feature, and succeeded with flying colors in avoiding its abuse.

But that's not how it is in real life. Obviously not all players dive, but diving is so common place that it creates controversy and a desire for gamers to want its inclusion in video games. To this point, I have found Fifa 08 to be almost flawless in terms of gameplay--and that's only from my experience on the PS2, which is by all means a watered down version of the next gen ones--except for the amount of fouls per game. That low number would be welcome if it weren't for those ruthless challenges that are in the game. I don't think I only speak for myself when I say that challenges are nothing short of brutal in Fifa 08, especially on World Class where I can come in hard on a player several times in a short space of time without fear of being whistled. It may be a good thing that challenges be very physical, but still I believe there could be more fouls. That would allow for more freekick opportunities and different levels of referee strictness from referees who like to keep the game flowing to those who whistle every niggly foul, as well as improve the overall gameplay.

Diving, as I see it, is not only deliberately going down with no contact whatsoever but also not keeping your ground after the slightest contact to sway the referee into giving you a freekick. In addition to going down rather easily, it is not uncommon to see players make a meal of challenges to the same end. I believe that Fifa could make up for the current shortage of fouls with a dive feature. In fact, it seems like a welcome feature that would fit in perfectly. Playing 10 mins games on "Fast" gameplay, you should be able to have match-like statistics. Fifa can learn from PES by adding the dive feature, which extends to going down after being clipped or faking an injury, but while Fifa should not let diving destroy the gameplay, they should work hard to give it it's actual impact in the game so as to tempt even the most honnest of us.

Please vote whether you believe EA should add diving, and do leave a comment explaining your opinion.

NO DIVING!

Diving is a bad side of the sport and it doesn't need to be in the game. It just promotes cheating. I'm sure the Italians would like to have it in the game but I don't think anyone else would like that.

The diving feature in PES is a horrible feature and it should stay with PES. Plus I don't think FIFA would allow EA to add that into the game. FIFA always promotes fair play, so to issue licenses to EA and than have a cheating feature in the game might be a no no as far as Fifa is concerned.

I for one would not like it at all.

I voted for no, the diving bit in PES2008 is utter crap IMO.

I think it would be a nice feature and it would make the game more realistic.
And FIFA 99 has it:p

No

A 100% no, i hate diving. In real live i'm a defender and it happens to often the ref gives a free kick for such things, that makes me sick. Player who can life with that cheating don't deserve to be on a footballfield

It would be amazing. 2 footed tackles and other dirty things should also be included. After all the point of releasing a new game each year is to make it more realistic and different than the one before.

I don't think the FIFA approves games anymore with these things, i think that's why it dissapeared after Fifa'99

Frankly, I am for realism. I wouldnt be against adding diving IF the ref books you for diving (i.e. only get away with it some of the time, in game. And a mandatory penalty in the form of card(s) after the match - after further review). Now thats realism!

Nice input guys. But do you really think Fifa supervise what EA add in their game? I don't know about that. Anyway if EA should implement it correctly and make sure blatant dives get punished, I don't see why it shouldn't be included.

nebulachapin, I like your last comment. I think Fifa have reached a level where they can look to add the slightest details to make the game as realistic as possible.

nebulachapin, I like your last comment. I think Fifa have reached a level where they can look to add the slightest details to make the game as realistic as possible.


Thanks. I do agree with other posters here though in the sense that it is possible to go too far. Diving that is punished I think doesn't promote cheating so much as showing that most often it doesn't pay to dive (if penalizing for diving happens more often than getting away with it). On the other hand, brutal tackles should not be included. This signals intent to injure and isnt right. Besides, you can already go in hard in the game and cause players to fly in the air in dramatic fashion, and often times they are injured. So technically, you as a player have the intent to take somebody out if you want, and indeed the other player may get injured (especially if you tweak the chance of injury values in the parameter files).

Back to the diving though, interestingly, EA may put diving back in for 09 because it does appear that the game event is already in place. I can't tell you how many times I have run into the box and been tripped and there was no call, in fact much more often does this happen than actually getting a pk. In any case, all EA would have to do is add another "trick" move for you to feign being taken down in the box (or anywhere on the field for that matter).

Personally, EA also needs to add hand balls in the box.

. . . brutal tackles should not be included. This signals intent to injure and isnt right. Besides, you can already go in hard in the game and cause players to fly in the air in dramatic fashion, and often times they are injured. So technically, you as a player have the intent to take somebody out if you want, and indeed the other player may get injured (especially if you tweak the chance of injury values in the parameter files).

Nebulachapin, do you play on PC. I think it'd be so cool to play on PC with all the editing possibilities.

Anyway, I don't think challenges are really brutal. If they are, they are not more so than in real games. It's true that injuries could do with some massive improvement. But I was really saying that my repetition of challenges was pretty reckless and unpunished. By all means, I was using the proper method of applying pressure in Fifa, but the CPU level and my zeal to get the ball should have had a different result. I do not want to concede fouls against the CPU--in fact, who does? . . . All I'm saying is that their could be more fouls in the game.

I'm all for what you just said.

As I said in one review I made FIFA is pure football !

Where can I find that review?

Nebulachapin, do you play on PC. I think it'd be so cool to play on PC with all the editing possibilities.

Anyway, I don't think challenges are really brutal. If they are, they are not more so than in real games. It's true that injuries could do with some massive improvement. But I was really saying that my repetition of challenges was pretty reckless and unpunished. By all means, I was using the proper method of applying pressure in Fifa, but the CPU level and my zeal to get the ball should have had a different result. I do not want to concede fouls against the CPU--in fact, who does? . . . All I'm saying is that their could be more fouls in the game.

Yes, I play on PC, so I try to maximize the difficulty. I play on legendary, and am always tinkering with the parameter files. Fouls is a BIG subject for me. I have been trying to have more of them. I have met with some success, but the problem is that the parameter value ranges are not given, and also just how the parameters are utilized. In many cases, I am sure there are equations that utilize a combination of the parameters, and these, for example, dictate whether a fould occurs or not.

I see. So that makes it harder to change foul frequency. It's so cool to play on PC. Do you play on "fast" and for 10 mins? I'm just starting to experiment with it. I'm not yet used to the speed. I actually started playing the game on slow. But I've been thinking it might be an interesting experience. Playing on "fast" gameplay allows you to do twice as much as you would do on a slower speed, and its manual controls would be faster, almost instinctive. So for my sake, I would like to normally play with these options.

Nebulachapin, I'm sure it is fun to tinker with the game codes, but us console players are not so lucky. It would be nice if EA could get it right on the first try.

to make the game morr realistic yes its part of the game saly and therefore to make game more realistic add it.

add it as an option you can turn off and on.

"But do you really think Fifa supervise what EA add in their game"

I'm sure they have people look at it to make sure that EA is upholding their end of the bargain. I know for a fact that in some of their need for speed games, they stayed away from realistic crashes and car damage because car manufactureres did not want their on-screen cars being damaged.

And as someone said, I've also seen many ocasions when players fall down and the ref just lets it go. Could be the game simulating a dive or just a bad call on the ref's part. Not sure which is it.

I see. So that makes it harder to change foul frequency. It's so cool to play on PC. Do you play on "fast" and for 10 mins? I'm just starting to experiment with it. I'm not yet used to the speed. I actually started playing the game on slow. But I've been thinking it might be an interesting experience. Playing on "fast" gameplay allows you to do twice as much as you would do on a slower speed, and its manual controls would be faster, almost instinctive. So for my sake, I would like to normally play with these options.

Nebulachapin, I'm sure it is fun to tinker with the game codes, but us console players are not so lucky. It would be nice if EA could get it right on the first try.

Actually, "fast" is unrealistic to me, as is even "normal" speed. When you look at the speed of players and ball movement, compared to a real match, it seems to fast. So I have altered the "game speed" parameter to something I think is more realistic. But it also makes the 10 minute halves I play at seem shorter. However, you can adjust the lngth of the half in the PC version, but I havent done it. My games tend to be low scoring (0-0, 1-0, 1-1) but I do have had some high scoring matches. But then again I feel this is a bit more realistic. If I made them longer, I might have too much scoring. Right now, I tend to have a good amount of chances by both sides in a game, even though it can be frustrating when I am losing because the AI is much much better at "closing up shop".

In any case, I dont think I would want a longer half. Even though I play legendary, I have made the game more difficult by playing with several parameters that I effect lower level players much more than excellent players (AI players I mean). The end result is, for example last season I played Man U in the FA cup and lost 7-0, and I would consider myself a good player. I was run off the field. God imagine if I had longer halves, the misery would have been prolonged...

Where can I find that review?


I can't really call it a review, but here's the link :).

http://soccergaming.com/forums/showthread.php?t=149230

Lol, I see your point, nebulachapin. In any case, I don't think any football game should have to keep your for the full 90 mins (except maybe management games). I am quite satisfied with 10. Playing at a faster speed is obviously unrealistic, but if you try to get used to it, I want to think that the game will slow down in your mind, and you will get used to it. It might not be easy on the eye but I will be satisfied with the stats. (Do forgive me for being such a stat freak. Many sports games simulations are faithful to the actual sport, but that's unfortunately not the case for our beloved beautiful game.)

And as someone said, I've also seen many ocasions when players fall down and the ref just lets it go. Could be the game simulating a dive or just a bad call on the ref's part. Not sure which is it.

I too have seen this. And that's very interesting to point out. It's not a bad idea if EA add dive in the game, even if it's not manual. I think that's exactly what they are trying to do. But, in my opinion, they are not quite there. There should be some rare instances of blatant dives (without any sort of contact). Either way EA should try to make it as realistic as possible: how often they occur, the different types of simulations. But the law of the game sould prevail, and I believe they will have no problems with Fifa.

Ultra_Blue, I liked your review, and I liked the ideas you pointed out. There are tons of commentary bugs, but it does not diluate my enjoyment of the game one bit, because they have taken gameplay to another level. Ball physics have improved a great deal. I think they surpass PES in that department even on current gen. I don't know when they introduced this . . . but reduced bounces on wet conditions--that's just awesome. And there is a lot more to say about Fifa 08.

Rest assured, EA will not include diving, trust me.

They have said for a very long time they are against foul play and they fully support fair play. Therefore they won't.

Also, Konami beat them to that feature and if they would also include it in FIFA 09 it would be too obvious that EA copied Konami.

P.S. I own PES2008 and I too was excited when I first heard of this feature. But trust me, it really isn't all that great. The ref ALWAYS (and I MEAN ALWAYS!) catches you and in the end it just disrupts the game instead of making an advantage. It is a very 'annoying' feature...much more of a pain than fun.
I think in about 250 attempts I only managed to do it 1 time, and that was on the demo :P

i dont think it should be included as doing so is just accepting that it is part of the game, and in one sense, promoting it to younger people

HOWEVER, with that said. unfortunately diving is part of the game these days, and i dont think it would be all that bad to put in, especially if you could get realistic consequences. for example, the most important thing i think would be required is that if you take a dive, the player must sit out a minute or so of the game just like in real life as if they have been injured, this would make it so ppl only did it when it was worth it and not cheated the system. also i think there should be yellow cards awarded for diving too as another deterrent to do it

also adding some more animations to the game related to diving would be great. like in a liverpool vs man united game, score 1-1 heading into injury time and cristiano ronaldo takes a dive to earn a penalty, would be good to see animations of crowds/players reactions

anything to make the game more realistic i guess

Yes, because I'm sick of pushing the ball in front of me, only to have a defender behind me holding onto my shirt and slowing me down to snail pace for 5 seconds only to have the keeper run up and grab the ball. In that situation I want to either...

A) Turn and punch the defender
B) Have an option to alert the ref to the foul
or
C) Dive

Yes, because I'm sick of pushing the ball in front of me, only to have a defender behind me holding onto my shirt and slowing me down to snail pace for 5 seconds only to have the keeper run up and grab the ball. In that situation I want to either...

A) Turn and punch the defender
B) Have an option to alert the ref to the foul
or
C) Dive

Amen, brother.

I rest my case.

Lol. Yes, it's quite annoying when that happens.

I guess we need three buttons to do three things that can happen in a real game. A and C are the extremes and B is the common ground. You could shake off the defender with an elbow on the face like Arteta (not that he is a malicious player or anything), take the C. Ronaldo approach and dive as if you had been shot, or raise your arms in protest to alert the ref.

Simo_yes, I agree that in-game animations should reflect the situation, including player and crowd reaction. The commentators too should have something to say.

Interista, it would not bother me one bit to hear PES supporters say that EA copied their dive feature, if EA can implement it better. PES are trying to be as realistic as possible and so are Fifa. Therefore, they try to make additions to make their game look and feel like the real thing to convince the customers to buy their game. Further, I don't think PES are in position to make fun of Fifa anymore. The games are dead even now. If anything PES should try to sue Fifa for copying them because they are about to take the lead in the race, but then it's not like Konami hold the rights for diving.

Yes, they can. With this feature playing online will be much more interesting :) But i think that this is very difficult to made, cause there should be a lot of aspects, for example, when to give card, freee kick, penalty etc.

Polny_pizdets, I agree that it's not going to be easy. But I think we're on to something with Hanns' last post (#30, page 3). Actually, I'm thinking of an appeal-for-foul button instead of strictly a dive button. You would press it and your player would do one of the three options. But his decision would depend on his morale and personality. Players would have two main personalities, specifically designed for that situation: fisty v. chicken.

C. Ronaldo would be the epitome of the chicken personality. He would most likely dive than retaliate in that situation. But he would not always dive. He is also one to whine a lot. A player would only show his extreme personality if his morale is low. On the other hand, a fisty player like Rooney would have done away with the defenders face if his morale was low. I'm just giving some ideas as to how that could work, but I still want to hear your suggestions on how you think it could be implemented, or you can argue that it should not be included in the game at all.

Yeah, great idea. (Y)

Thanks:) I'm glad you like it.