http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/4680/uefaeuro2012logo.png


Qualifications for EURO 2012 by groups is done
Known participants are:
Poland
Ukraine
Germany
Russia
Italy
France
Netherlands
Greece
England
Denmark
Spain
Sweden (as best 2nd team of qualifications)
Play-off's
Croatia
Portugal
Czech Republic
Republic of Ireland


"The eight-team lineup for Thursday's UEFA EURO 2012 play-off draw in Poland is confirmed with four places on offer in the ties on 11/12 and 15 November.

In the draw to be made from 13.00CET at the Sheraton Hotel in Krakow, Portugal, Croatia, the Republic of Ireland and the Czech Republic will be seeded according to their national team coefficients. Turkey, Bosnia and Herzegovina and first-time play-off entrants Estonia and Montenegro are the four unseeded teams.

The draw ceremony will be conducted by UEFA General Secretary Gianni Infantino and former Poland forward Zbigniew Boniek, one of the final tournament ambassadors. It will define the four pairings as well as the order of the home and away ties. The draw will be transmitted live on UEFA.com and Eurosport.

Already through to the finals, alongside co-hosts Poland and Ukraine, are holders Spain, Germany, Russia, Italy, France, the Netherlands, Greece, England, Denmark and best runners-up Sweden. The finals draw is on 2 December in Kyiv and the tournament runs from 8 June until 1 July next year in eight."
- UEFA.com


Play-off for Final Tournament - 1st leg - 11.11.2011

Bosnia and Herzegovina - Portugal 0-0
Turkey - Croatia 0-3
Czech Republic - Montenegro 2-0
Estonia - Republic of Ireland 0-4


Play-off for Final Tournament - 2nd leg - 15.11.2011

Portugal - Bosnia and Herzegovina 6-2 (0-0)
Croatia - Turkey 0-0 (3-0)
Montenegro - Czech Republic 0-1 (0-3)
Republic of Ireland - Estonia 1-1 (5-1)



For me those were really tough qualifications. Croatia showed very little. Serbia didn't qualified and Estonia and Montenegro are in play-offs which is positive surprise.

Germany won all matches - amazing. I watched them, great style, great individuals and great team chemistry.

I, as Croat, am very disappointed with what my national team showed. Slaven Bilić is obviously not capable to lead our team into great matches. After we lost against Tureky in Euro 2008, are road went down. Not a single good match. Guys like Modrić, Eduardo, Srna, Kranjčar, Lovren, Jelavić are more then good to do their job, but team chemistry is low, not motivated. I only hope that we will be qualified for Euro, cause missing World Cup was point break.

What's your thoughts about this qualifications and what to expect next?



Draw for Final Tournamet will be on December 2. 2011., Kyiv

Pot 1: Spain, Holland, Ukraine, Poland
Pot 2: Germany, England, Italy, Russia
Pot 3: Croatia, Portugal, Greece, Sweden
Pot 4: Ireland, France, Czech Republic, Denmark



Final Tournament Draw

GROUP A
Poland
Greece
Russia
Czech Republic

GROUP B
Netherlands
Denmark
Germany
Portugal

GROUP C
Spain
Italy
Republic of Ireland
Croatia

GROUP D
Ukraine
Sweden
France
England

A final's group with Spain, Germany, Portugal and France, anyone? :)

I don't usually care too much of international football, but ****! I still can't believe we made it to the play-off's. We'll most likely get ****ed up whoever we get but then again I was sure we'll get ****ed up by Serbia too.

Today, Bosnian medias called Croatian intentional team a "circus team which can barely win Georgia". They are not far from true, but now I want them in play-offs!

My Draw Prediction:
Croatia - Bosnia
Ireland - Estonia
Czech Rep - Montenegro
Portugal - Turkey

Teams I'd want to see through:
Bosnia
Estonia
Czech Rep
Portugal

Turkey - Croatia - haha... We'll pay them back for Euro 2008!
Estonia - Ireland
Czech - Montenegro
Bosnia - Portugal - Looks familiar... :)


Robbie, you predicted two pairs correctly...

Turkey - Croatia - Oh, that will be tough. I say Croatia.
Estonia - Ireland - I would like to see Estonia, but it will be hard for them.
Czech - Montenegro - Czech Republic!
Bosnia - Portugal - Bosnia will pay them for last time... maybe...

We got the easiest of the seeded teams but for us it's like being happy about having to play against Real instead of Barca, lol.

I can't image what would be on Croatia - Turkey. It will be a war, literally. Medias are already raising the dust.

It was June 20. 2008. quarterfinal's, 119 min. Modrić took the ball, pass it to the head of Klasnić and... BUM! Goal!!! We were jumpinig around, celebrating and then... in almost not existing time... BANG!!! Senturk is raising his finger towards his mouth... and he silenced all Croats...
After that... penalties. Rakitić and Modrić missed... Turkey has won... tears, pain, and anger...

Good story, true story... ;)

wait, are the play-offs drawn? we are playing against Turkey? oh, i want revenge ! :D

wait, are the play-offs drawn? we are palying against Turkey? oh, i want revenge ! :D
Da, buraz, opet Turci... :)
If Bilić manage to made our team play better, to use our all potential, then they will fall... Motivation should not lack this time.

ma, valjda i sad sami igrači znaju da se trebaju motivirati protiv Turske jer znaju što je bilo prošli put

English: i guess the players should know themselfes that they have to motivate against Turkey because they know what happened last time...
sorry for my english :P

That was really crazy how I correctly picked both newbie teams' playoffs. Let's hope I get the results rights too.

I still keep Portugal, but in the other tie that I didn't get I think that going by their respective form from qualification, Croatia will beat Turkey.

A final's group with Spain, Germany, Portugal and France, anyone? :)

Could this happen?

Yes. If Portugal or Croatia qualify then France will be in Pot 4. If both teams qualify from the playoffs, both France and Denmark will be in Pot 4. Also, If Croatia qualify they will be in Pot 2 and Russia will be in Pot 3.

For the superstitious, Estonia finished their 2012 qualifying campaign with the same number of points as Latvia did to reach the playoffs in 2004 (16), also eerily earned with the same number of wins and draws (5 and 1). Also, this is the first time that Estonia has done better than fourth in any qualifying phase, which was also the case for Latvia when they made second spot to reach the playoffs for 2004.

I'd normally be rooting for a smaller footballing nation like Estonia. But Ireland really deserve to make it to a major tournament, again. Especially after the Henry incident.

I would like to see Bosnia payback, even though Portugal is more attractive team...

BTW, If Croatia had faced Montenegro in these playoffs, would Dejan Savićević still be considered what he was in Zagreb in 1999? XD

haha... From majority would probably be... That's "Balkan" mentality. But he was a genius player.

Im going for a Germany win in this tournament

Appartenly Trappatoni has released his Rep. Ireland list for the playoffs against Estonia, calling up two injured players: Long and Robbie Keane, as well as Kevin Doyle, who's suspended for the first leg.

And our only half-decent striker is out with cards for the first game, so I'd go with 0-0 in the first leg and than Ireland smashing our hopes into pieces at Aviva. Our only hope is that Gibson will be as horrible for Ireland as he is for United, lol.

As about Croatia, we lost Petrić and Kranjčar. But Petrić didn't played recently at all. What pisses me off is that Bilić is forcing that a** Kalinić to play. He even compared Kalinić to best Croatian striker of all times - Davor Šuker. That says everything about our coach.

Eduardo, Jelavić and Mandžukić should play without a doubt. They are in great form and they showed that many times.

And good thing is that Rakitić is back.

Apparently Joel Lindpere from NYRB has joined the NT for the first time in 2 years to face Ireland. Would be a major boost for Estonia but in reality - most of the team hate him for putting club before NT and it will most likely destroy the team morale :D

I don't think they'd put such a vital chance to make an international tourney ahead of player egos. :D

Damn, that crazy Joe Šimunić! Croatian-australin said that Turkey's pants will shake in match against us. But when I see what lineup is Bilić preparing it makes me sick. They'll crush us!

Joe is awesome guy! I remember in 2008, when he said that there is no one from Austrian international team that have better technique than him. And here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekSQsK85Fp8) is proof. XD

Anyway, Joe will dress Croatian shirt for 91 time in Istanbul. He's already legend!

Croatia v Turkey - The Euro 08 QF rematch
Portugal v Bosnia - The WC2010 playoff rematch
Czech v Montenegro - The Stoics' playoff
Ireland v Estonia - "The Eighties Coming Back" playoff

Anyone who can guess the reference to that last one gets a cookie.

Well Ireland has only qualified for the EURO 88 but no ******* idea how you know, and remember, about that horrible song from the ******* eurovision, lol.

It should be the unofficial team anthem if they make it! XD

MaYBVWpDmvo

Bosnia will have hard time in defence tomorrow. 3 standard defenders are off. Hope they'll stay strong, and surprise us all. At least fanatic supporters will lead them.

And again CR7 had very warm welcome in Sarajevo... Messi, Messi!!

http://www.sportin.ba/Slike/Vijesti/111109224237-cristiano-ronaldo.jpg

Are Saša Papac and Boris Pandža suspended for both legs?

No, just for first match.

Bye bye EURO's. The slim chances we had got killed by the ref giving booking Stepanov twice in 35 minutes, with both yellows being rather easlily given.

Turkey - Croatia 0-3

Finally, we pay them back! With Turkey's only one shot at goal, even crowds turn the back on them, especially to Volkan which was escorted with many whistles. I expected more from Turkey! Great performance by Bilić Boys!

And fantastic comeback from Olić.

http://www.24sata.hr/image/biti-ili-ne-biti-cin-prvi-neka-padne-ta-istanbulska-utvrda-400x600-20111145-20111111204142-1923cb87285aca196bfcddb833e69bf6.jpg


Bosnia with 0-0 against Portugal still have great chances.

well, nowadays even San Marino would have a chance against us.

So it seems that probably the only tie not decided is the BIH-POR one. Will Bosnia take any cues from Greece?

Of the teams that lost the team with the biggest chance is MNE; going by goal difference of course...

Hillarious match by Kassai, can't believe he's one of the top refs, totally killed our game.

Props to Ireland too, they had a perfect match, made no mistakes while our lack of experience showed. If it's 4-0 you can't really blame it all on the ref. The fair result would have been 2-0 or even 1-0.

BiH can be lucky with how it ended. A lot of opportunities by Portugal, and Bosnia didn't have proper chance until Ibišević came in second half. Too bad for that 1on1 that he missed in 81. And they lost Salihović for 2nd match.


Please listen to our commentator! Legend! Man lost his voice.

JE4lmDpfy-0
:bouncy:

Haha, congrats Waldo, I'm happy for you. Croatia is also my girlfriends favorite NT so all the best for 2012 :D

Here's the highlights of Czech Republic vs Montenegro too:
http://rutube.ru/tracks/5001298.html?v=cdfd127ca7ffc996510421805f4c611d&autoStart=true&bmstart=1000

I can't believe we actually did it. I am delighted. Going to every game and now finally get to go to another major tournament.

Giovanni Trapattoni is a hero. Getting that group of average to decent players to play as a solid unit. It's going to suck when he's gone.

Unlucky for Estonia. Good up and coming team who will have their day. Their luck escaped them last night which you need being a smaller nation in the play offs.

and fantastic comeback from olić.

http://www.24sata.hr/image/biti-ili-ne-biti-cin-prvi-neka-padne-ta-istanbulska-utvrda-400x600-20111145-20111111204142-1923cb87285aca196bfcddb833e69bf6.jpg

!!!!!!!!!!!

Ivica!!!

36wujpLR3iQ

disgracefully hilarious.

Yep, but there was actually a contact. Take a close look from 0:27 and look at Olić's left foot. Olić stepped on Altintop, but his extortion of a penalty was rather funny and unfair, cause he made one step after, then dived.

Turkey lost their patience in 2nd half, a lot of brutal fouls, and they lost Turan and Emre for 2nd leg.

Funny how crowd shouted to Hiding to leave just after 1st goal, and after whole stadium turn back on their national team.

Too bad for Estonia with 4-0 lose. 2nd leg is 15., so, Montenegro have little chances, but Bosnia have big opportunity in Portugal. They are much stronger now then 2 years before.

Bosnian "Dragons" are in full strength! Safet Sušić still didn't tell what exactly team lineup will be, but only player which they can't take into is Salihović. Papac have high temperature, but apparently will play. Others are ready, and let's hope motivated enough to beat Portugal. They have quality, now just to show it. And last time they played better in Lisabon then at home!

Go Dragons! :blueball:

Bosnia play significantly better away than at home because of the fact that a playing style with counter attacking football suits the team a whole lot better. We lose a pro free kicker with Salihovic but Misimovic has been hitting them well recently. It's definitely the match to watch this evening because it will be intense.

- Croatia
- Czech Republic
- Republic of Ireland

and Portugal with a two lead after 25 mins

with a BANG! (H)

Scumbag Portugal, goes to the playoffs only to **** them up (H) We just have to leave it all to the very last, or we wouldn't be Portuguese!

We just have to leave it all to the very last, or we wouldn't be Portuguese!

Haha, so true (H)

It seems we also play significantly better in an actual football field, rather than some piece of land more suitable for growing potatoes..

Seriously how come for instance this season Vitória de Setúbal's field was rejected by the UEFA committee for European competitions and that one in Bosnia (which objectively is in worse conditions) is okay? I mean, why the double standards?

Anyway, glad we're through and this time in a convincing manner.

Pot 1: Spain, Holland, Ukraine, Poland
Pot 2: Germany, England, Italy, Russia
Pot 3: Croatia, Portugal, Greece, Sweden
Pot 4: Ireland, France, Czech Republic, Denmark


These are the pots for the December 2nd draw. The hosts showing up in the first pot ensures that there is going to be a tough group or two.

I would love Spain to draw England, Croatia, and France, not because they're easy, but because they'd be great match ups. We've beaten the other big names in the past two tournaments. Plus, England vs France is always classic.

Spain, Germany, Portugal and France a possible group? :icon_spin:

Haha, funny ****. Few years ago, if we'd draw Ireland 1-1 away, it'd be a national holiday-esque day - now even the goalscorer didn't give a **** about his long range shot.

Good luck Ireland, you deserve the spot, though 5-1 on aggregate is a bit too harsh for us. Hope to see O'Shea becoming the star of the tournament :D

Oh, s***, we all expected more from Bosina. 6-2 is too high result. Bosnia looked really bad first 45, not enough determination, Portugal press them very hard... But on 2-1 and 3-2 it was intense. Congrats Portugal, great performance.

Spain
Germany
Croatia
France

Oh, that would be... F***ed up! :33vff3o:

All 14 qualifiers are the top 14 seeds in the overall UEFA NT coefficients. Ukraine is 15th with 28,029 pts. Poland is 28th with only 23,806. :(

My Draw Predictions (no particular order for the group placement (except for first seeds), just simply by seeding pots):
A: Poland, Germany, Greece, Ireland
B: Spain, Italy, Croatia, Czech Republic
C: Holland, England, Portugal, France
D: Ukraine, Russia, Sweden, Denmark

We would've been better off in pot 2, lol...

Whatever the draws will be, every group is gonna be very interesting. All top teams with great individuals. Its almost harder to win Euro then WC.
All 14 qualifiers are the top 14 seeds in the overall UEFA NT coefficients. Ukraine is 15th with 28,029 pts. Poland is 28th with only 23,806. :(
And that's very interested. 14 top teams plus Poland and Ukraine who will be boosted by home advantage. Remember how Austria and Switzerland were though in 2008.

They didn't actually get through; neither Austria nor Switzerland

Austria and Switzerland were a joke, both out after 2 matches.

==================
Objective
==================
Italy v Holland final


==================
Dream Draw
==================
Poland, Italy, Greece, Ireland
Holland, Russia, Croatia, Czech Rep
Spain, England, Portugal, France
Ukraine, Germany, Sweden, Denmark


==================
Nightmare Draw
==================
Poland, England, Greece, Ireland
Holland, Russia, Croatia, Czech Rep
Spain, Italy, Portugal, France
Ukraine, Germany, Sweden, Denmark

==================
Objective
==================
Italy v Holland final


==================
Dream Draw
==================
Poland, Italy, Greece, Ireland
Holland, Russia, Croatia, Czech Rep
Spain, England, Portugal, France
Ukraine, Germany, Sweden, Denmark


==================
Nightmare Draw
==================
Poland, England, Greece, Ireland
Holland, Russia, Croatia, Czech Rep
Spain, Italy, Portugal, France
Ukraine, Germany, Sweden, Denmark
The difference between your dream and your nightmare is swapping England and Italy?

yup :D

Austria and Switzerland were a joke, both out after 2 matches.
Didn't get through, but wouldn't call them a joke. As a host they were pretty though opponent to play with. Even though Austria didn't win any match, they were hard to break (0-1 against Cro and Germany). And Switzerland beat Portugal (not influenced match, but they win).

Nevermind, I was just applying that 2012 hosts can be tricky. :innocent_smile_1:

I think that we'll do better than the hosts of 2008. ;)

Well, I must agree with that. :)

EDIT: Didn't follow Poland and Ukraine recently, how's exactly situation in their national teams? Preparations?

We've both had up and down results in our friendly matches and we both drew Germany in recent months. We also both lost to Italy and France, and as for other Euro2012 qualifiers, Poland only drew with Greece and Ukraine lost against Czech Rep and Sweden.

I read that Turkey booked Kirša camp in Doneck for Euro 2012. Funny thing is that Croatia now picked that camp.... (H) Poor Turkey, they booked in advance... and now they're at home...

http://www.24sata.hr/image/ovo-je-baza-bilic-boysa-uzeli-kamp-koji-su-rezervirali-turci-504x335-20111148-20111129163422-12096d3958acb71c8b86dd33d6c09609.jpg

Soon draws... :browsmiley:

Speaking of camps, we have an on-going joke in Ukraine that nobody but us and Russians will reside in Ukraine during the Euro, seeing that the top teams like England, Spain, etc. all announced their stay in Poland during the tournament. Turkey's and Croatia's interest in Donetsk is like a light in the end of the tunnel (Y)

I cross my fingers for Russia to be in Ukraine's group. This is one of the most intense undiscovered rivalries out there, with both Russians and Ukrainians constantly trashing each other team's in UEFA Champion and Europa League, as well as argue who's domestic league is better. The fact that both nations played each other only twice (Euro-2000 qualification) and it was 13 years ago will heat this match-up to a boiling level.

Speaking of camps, we have an on-going joke in Ukraine that nobody but us and Russians will reside in Ukraine during the Euro, seeing that the top teams like England, Spain, etc. all announced their stay in Poland during the tournament. Turkey's and Croatia's interest in Donetsk is like a light in the end of the tunnel (Y)

I cross my fingers for Russia to be in Ukraine's group. This is one of the most intense undiscovered rivalries out there, with both Russians and Ukrainians constantly trashing each other team's in UEFA Champion and Europa League, as well as argue who's domestic league is better. The fact that both nations played each other only twice (Euro-2000 qualification) and it was 13 years ago will heat this match-up to a boiling level.

That would be an awesome match. I think Poland will get Germany and Ukraine will get Russia.

Finals draw for EURO 2012

http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/6259/euro2012q.jpg

**** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** ****

Holland in the group of death as always.

What do you mean, Holland? Second big tournament in a row where Portugal gets the group of death.

and it's the 4th consecutive EUROs that Holland are in the Group of Death ... 'always' just about sums it up right ...


---


http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/6259/euro2012q.jpgI guess I feel fairly contented about the draw ... Italy-Holland dream final still on ... England not gifted an easy passage ... yeah, it's not the ideal scenario, but it'll do ... (Y)

2008 and 2004 I agree, but surely Portugal-England-Germany-Romania trumps Netherlands-France-Czech-Denmark in 2000.

Yay we got a real easy group! :D

Indeed, not terrible for Poland and Ukraine. Always like seeing the hosts go through, having been one once. (let's not go there)

Have mixed feeling about Ukraine's group. First, and foremost important thing is the absence of Russia :clapwap: Second is Sweden - I never liked the games between our two teams and would be happy to see someone else (Greece still has a bounty on for WC2010 play-offs). And now it turns out that Sweden will be the first we will play in Kyiv and that is the only game that I will, most likely, be able to attend. On a positive side they are technically an easiest opponent compared to England and France, so I have a higher chance of walking out with a smile on my face after the 90 minutes :-)
Next is England vs. France. The game between those 2 by itself is great so congrats to neutral fans for the forthcoming spectacle. But when it comes to considering them as a future opponent I'm not in a very good mood. France is toughest team in the Pot 4. They are also, as well as England, very motivated to go through due to unpleasant results in the past tournaments.

And I just noticed that even if we do qualify from the group stage, there is an iceberg ahead in a form of Spain "Runner up group D vs. Winner of Group C". WTF!

Congratulations Robbie, good group for Poland :)

Poland is gonna get minimum 7 maximum 9 pts.

For Ukraine, They can beat Sweden in Kyiv, but I think that you can get draws against England and France. The only way you'll be able to meet Russia is at the semi finals at the earliest.

Tough tough group. The first game against Portugal will pretty much determine everything.

The Oranje had a tough draw in 2008 as well and came out unscathed, they should be able to at least make it out of the group.

Great, we're in the Group of Death of the EURO's. What else is new?

What else is new?

You're facing Germany. Does that count?:rofl:

Why should someone from Netherlands be worried about the group of death? Your NT is the reason why the group is being called "Group of Death". I see no problems for you to qualify. Outside Germany, Portugal is a strong team but they are noticeably behind the European powerhouses - unimpressive qualifying campaign and no chances at World Cup against teams like Spain and Brazil. But I do feel very sorry for Denmark supporters, I can visualize some of them smashing their TV set and a wave of profanity stormed at it's direction :)

Unfortunately I don't see big chances of a possible Ukraine meeting Russia in Semi Final. Not only we face a tough situation of placing first two spots in a group, but we also HAVE to make sure it's the first place otherwise Spain is waiting for us, and I sense nothing less than a total destruction and a bad mood for me that day. And even if a miracle will happen I won't place my bets on Russia to take down Germany or Netherlands :D

fixed......but would still be great to see Dutch vs Germans. Two sides who swapped styles.

I love Group B & C.

I think Poland have a good chance to progress.

**** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** ****

This.

Are you ******* kidding me with Group A? There shouldn't be joint hosts for a 4 Group Tournament. It ****s up the seedings.

2008 and 2004 I agree, but surely Portugal-England-Germany-Romania trumps Netherlands-France-Czech-Denmark in 2000.

Oh.. the good old days. I miss Hagi ! :(

http://cristi26.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/hagi1.jpg

Was gonna ask if any group has ever had 4 previous Champions before, but then remembered Greece won in 2004.

Portugal (H)

Even though Group A is not attractive as others, I find it very interesting. All teams are more-less on the same level, so it'll be interesting to see how they'll perform against each other. Poland will be boosted by home advantage; unattractive, but effective Greece; Russia is a bit weaker team then few years back, but have great individuals; and Czech as very tricky opponent.

As about Group C, I was praying just not to get Spain, and we got them. There was an interview with Slaven Bilić and he said that he's pleased and very happy with draws. Well, its good to see our coach to be so optimistic. And we actually have better score against Spain and Italy then Ireland.

http://www.24sata.hr/image/bilic-nikad-nije-kuci-otisao-prije-cetvrtfinala-velikog-natjecanja-504x335-20111146-20111116101724-922484ee49fad081f3384aed298909ba.jpg

Agreed with Waldo. I think group A will provide us with some mini-classic matches, remember Yugoslavia vs Slovenia? Very, very even and really can't tell the "favorites" from the "outsiders". Teams going through will most likely get raped in the quarters, though :D

And looks like we can expect many goals in tournament, cause of the new Tango 12 ball. Tests showed that this one is "dancing" even more then Jabulani. It's fast and unpredictable.
http://www.sportskacentrala.com/fudbal/euro2012/tango12.jpg

Portugal is a strong team but they are noticeably behind the European powerhouses - unimpressive qualifying campaign and no chances at World Cup against teams like Spain and Brazil.

Yup, we got raped by Brazil and Spain in South Africa. A draw and a 1-0 lose with the goal being offside.


But wtv. In the present, yeah, we are kinda underperfoming, the first matches with Paulo Bento were godly, beating the hell of Spain (3-0?, 4-0? cant remember) beating Denmark easily, but now things are kind of bad, too much ****storm inside the locker room i guess.

This.

Are you ******* kidding me with Group A? There shouldn't be joint hosts for a 4 Group Tournament. It ****s up the seedings.

Unless one of the teams are world class anyway?

BTW, the same could have been said for Portugal joining not only Group B but C and D as well. They would have had to have faced two other top teams in either of those groups too (C - Italy, Spain D - England, France). If Portugal had have qualified directly then they probably would have been in Pot 2, avoiding England, Italy and Germany, but probably having to face one of Greece, Russia or Croatia.

Germany and Holland are (deservedly) #2 and #3 in the FIFA Rankings. England, France, and Italy, while they have great history, aren't even in the same class right now. Maybe that will be different by July.

Another reason there shouldn't be co-hosts would be the travel time between Poland and Ukraine which seems to be tough for teams and journalists, and the fact that you really only need 4 stadiums to host a Euro Championship. If you don't have 4 top stadiums, you probably shouldn't be hosting.

I agree with the hosts (especially co-hosts) not being top seeds. They are already in the tournament without having to qualify, that should be enough. As you said, it ruins the group balance.

haha travel time for journalists? are you serious, Dan? so what do you have to say about the USA hosting a World Cup based on that criterion?

and, yeah, I agree with Horatiu ... co-hosts are fine ... keeping them separated in Group A and D is fine ... but they definitely shouldn't be seeded ...

Group A is a joke. The rest of the groups are top heavy on talent, so I expect the qualifying teams from group A to get slaughtered in the quarters.

haha travel time for journalists? are you serious, Dan? so what do you have to say about the USA hosting a World Cup based on that criterion?

and, yeah, I agree with Horatiu ... co-hosts are fine ... keeping them separated in Group A and D is fine ... but they definitely shouldn't be seeded ...

I think commercial flights are easier and cheaper to find between New York/LA/Chicago than between Poznan and Kharkiv. It's going to be all train and car for journalists and possibly teams too.

hah, indeed ... but you think the travel and charter agencies won't realize the need for such travel if needed?

anyway, the funny thing to me was that you actually believe the travel thing is an issue in the first place ... unless all news and sports agencies rely on the same 5 people to rush around from place to place to cover games, in which case: fair point ...

but even if we entertain the topic of travel: each Group is based in two cities in one country, and each team will play two games in a row at one stadium -- meaning only one trip per team during the Group Stage ... journalists from respective participating countries will stick to their team's camp like glue, which means they will match their team's own travel plans ... and they'll have a roving reporter sent out to spy and report on the next opposition ... nothing complex about the travel plans there ...

the knockouts are the only time international travel will happen ... but again, that will involve 3 separate trips at most; and trust me, if they have to make 3 or even 2 trips, I guarantee they will be delighted to do so, given what that travel would imply ...

Hey, I'm grasping at straws because it's a disgrace that Groups A and B can exist. If there's co-hosts, I think it's only fair that only one of them gets an automatic top seed. It's bad enough that 1 team gets left out because of co-hosts, but the Groups get messed up too? No good.

Ah well, I'm not European.

The largest distance is between Lviv and Kharkiv for the group phase (Ironically for the group of death - Group B). And having one cohost as seed is unfair to the other cohost. On what criteria would you base giving the right to seeding for one cohost? their qualifying from 2 to 4 years ago? (given that the cohosts can only play friendlies after the previous WC.)

BTW each country has got 4 top class stadiums. ;)

And having one cohost as seed is unfair to the other cohost. On what criteria would you base giving the right to seeding for one cohost? their qualifying from 2 to 4 years ago? (given that the cohosts can only play friendlies after the previous WC.)

On the basis of one of them having a higher ranking?

Yeh but that ranking would come only from competitive games, so that would exclude their form in the two years that they've had to prepare from the end a previous qualification phase/tournament. Hence my question that you would base ranking for the 2012 cohosts on the basis of matches from October/November 2009 backwards. (Poland finished 5th in Qualifying for WC 2010, and they qualified for Euro 2008. Ukraine have never qualified for the Euros as an independent country and they didn't qualify for WC 2010 after losing a play off to Greece) The reason why you seed hosts is because they miss out on the most recent qualifying phase which weights the other teams' ranking as 40 percent of the total points allocated. So without being seeded they only have 60% of average ranking points for their games in two qualifying phases, rather than all other teams' three phases.

(Also I assume that a similar logic, but obviously for different reasons based on competitiveness, also used to be the case for WCs when the defending champions qualified automatically without having to qualify, but they still seed defending champions when they qualify anyway) But i think it is always the rule that the hosts are seeded first above defending champions in final tournaments. They only time defending champions are seeded as outright first is for the qualifying phases and or if they win the previous tournament and host the next one.


This sort of argument that there should only be one seed because it has a better ranking leads to the whole "why bother to have a tournament anyway?, just give the trophy to the best team in the rankings, they'll win it for sure" assumption. :S

Rankings count friendlies bro.

This sort of argument that there should only be one seed because it has a better ranking leads to the whole "why bother to have a tournament anyway?, just give the trophy to the best team in the rankings, they'll win it for sure" assumption. :S

Wow, that wasn't an honest argument at all.

Do any of you know how much friendlies count compared to competitive match in ranking points? My dad told me the friendlies count very little so I was like "f*** I played all those FM friendlies for no reason" (H). :(

If it's reasonable then it's time to schedule those Gabon matches.

I have no idea why, but what struck me most about that post is that I never pictured Horatiu having a dad. Don't get a 'I have a dad' vibe from him. Weird.

Lol my family is very European-ish where we have the traditional values etc...

I'm sure, I just find it hard to believe that you have a father. I can't explain it, I just do.

What, did you think he was an orphan?

Conceived in a petri dish

No, I just figured his dad left for work one day and never came back.

To be clear, I have nothing against Horatiu and this was never a negative view, but I was just totally startled when I saw him say something about his dad. Again, I can't explain it.

Carry on as you were.

I think group A will provide us with some mini-classic matches, remember Yugoslavia vs Slovenia? Very, very even and really can't tell the "favorites" from the "outsiders". Teams going through will most likely get raped in the quarters, though :Dhow did I miss this post before? watched the match with my Serbian neighbours ... I can still hear the cry of "jebem ti-!!" as the coffee table went flying when Miha gave the ball away for Zahovič to make it 3-0 ... an unforgettable match; it was all smiles at the end of the match, but that coffee table (which was mended) would go flying again in injury time against Spain :-D ...



And looks like we can expect many goals in tournament, cause of the new Tango 12 ball.

http://www.sportskacentrala.com/fudbal/euro2012/tango12.jpgagain, another piece of nostalgia ... this was "the template" for international tournament balls as I grew up ... turns out the Tango stylee stretched back long before I was born, let alone old enough to start watching footie (in the mid 90s), but the Tricolore and the Terrestra will always stir the fondest memories ...

http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/6736/xifioterrestra2000.jpg http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/6181/xifiotango12.jpg

I do like the nostalgia rush from seeing such a design again, but I hope it's a one-off; there is a reason why I still consider the Fevernova to be the best-looking ball ever made for international tournaments ...

The browninsh/goldenish one? Meh.

Probably the Fevernova is the most original, but the best looking?

Tango brings back great memories. Great idea to bring it back.

Roteiro was the best, i had one.

Roteiro was the best, i had one.
Agree, I love it.

I like the French

I like the French

Me too, always staring at Fili's signature.

I really liked the Fevernova. It just looked different and had something about it that made it look very appealing to me.