I figure everyone is out enjoying their FM2012 saves right now, I know I am, but I figure it wouldn't be a bad idea to start throwing ideas around for the next succession game since the last one was a lot of fun and was very successful.

I'll let Dan or someone else come up with the rules for it, but I don't think they'll be much different from last year.

I can't remember what the suggestions were in the last thread, so what would you guys like to do? I think there's a few broad categories to consider:

1. English Dominance - Take over a club in the bottom-most division in England (which has the deepeest league structure in the database as well as the deepest expandable league structure available for download) and take it to then top and look to dominate world football and become a dynasty (which is what we did last time with Chelmsford).

2. Alter the Balance of Power - Take over a club in a low-ranking league and attempt to make that league the best in the world, thanks to DLR. There's the possibility of reaching a dead-end since the overall league quality might stifle one club's advancement, but we could stipulate that once certains criteria are met (win the CL, good finances and youngsters coming through, etc), we switch (assuming there's an opening) to another club and repeat. I saw someone (Juventino posted the link) do this in Poland in FM11 and he managed to make Poland one of the better leagues this way, so it's definitely possible.

3. Journeyman - This is a very popular type of game but I'm not sure it's a good idea for a succession game. Basically, you load a bunch of leagues (or not, since you can add and remove them) and start unemployed and work your way up going wherever the save takes you.

4. Win it All - Start a save in a continent, and win every competition possible with one club (domestic league, cup, Europa, CL, Club World Championship and Supercup) and then move to another continent and repeat.

We also need to decide on how challenging we want this save to be. Last time we started with a top club (for the division it was in) and excellent finances. Do we do the same again? I'm keener on using an unaltered database, and having more difficulties in climbing the ladder. Last time everyone got consecutive promotions and we didn't take long to dominate Europe. I'd rather take over a bottom club at a bottom division and work our way up.
Also, post in this thread if you'd like to participate so we can make a list of people.

So, discuss.

Interested:
- Azrael
- Zlatan
- Alex
- Horatiu
- Nimreitz
- Filipower
- Juventino
- Daz

Yeah, definitely no sugar daddy this time I think. I like the idea of starting in a minor league and increase that leagues reputation. The only danger being that the domestic league could get pretty boring after a short time I think.

I'm kind of busy at the moment, but I'd be happy to participate again once I get the time.

I prefer the DLR one, too. With that one I think the best idea would be to keep changing teams. So, if we were in England for example (we won't, but for argument's sake), we would take over QPR or something, win the CL, leave them with stable finances and a decent squad and take over some other team, and repeat, always taking over a new club. In theory, you'd be creating a very competitive league although I dunno how well the AI will take care of your team once you leave it.

I think after the first streych of getting a crap club from a crap league to win the CL, which could take a long time, you'd only need 3-6 years at each club to get the same success. I think it's the save with the most longevity and difficulty. Imagine finishing it having taken over 10 or more clubs from the Montenegrin league and them all being top rep clubs with CL trophies. Would be tough as hell.

I don't particularly want to keep changing teams. Mainly because I think part of the charm last time was buying youngsters, and seeing how they were next time around...And also the attachment we had to the club and the players. We all got attached.

I'm not sure why everyone is so anti-sugar daddy. I think it'll make the really interesting (ie. small club to start with) succession games quite boring to start with. It'll be bloody hard to do a really low english club, without Sugar Daddy. And same goes for winning everything with a fairly small club elsewhere in the world.

I also don't understand why everyone is so against the idea of having sugar daddy set for a certain number of years, then changing him to a underwriter (ie. sugar daddy who just writes off debts, doesn't throw money in to transfers etc) after that. As long as the years are agreed to start. As I've said before, that'd make a really interesting game as far as giving us years to build and become a world power (with a rich chairman - which is the only way to do it these days!) and then the chairman sits back (like Roman has a bit) once the club is built right up.

I also don't mind the idea of DLR - in a league like Ukraine, or lower russian sides.

But rather than moving teams (so we can remain attached to OUR club, OUR players etc), why not just make a couple of other clubs in that nation have sugar daddy managers too. It won't help them that much (at least outside of that league) until the League's reputation improves anyway. No big name players will go to a crap league JUST for money. The game is fairly good like that.

This would also make it harder for us to absolutely dominate the league early on.

(And I wouldn't make them all Sugar Daddy's, just a couple of the big clubs in the country)

I don't really have an objection to anything you've said, I don't have a problem with moving clubs, but I don't mind sticking to one either.

With the Sugar Daddy thing, I'd propose having a clear line in the sand from the start though.

For example, we could choose Vladivostok or whoever we talked about before. And say we have a foreground sugar daddy (and give ourselves some ridiculous bank balance - $200mill or something - to start). And say we only have foreground sugar daddy for 10 (or 8) seasons. THEN we have Background for 2 seasons. Then underwriter for the rest.

Then we could make a couple of the big russian clubs (CSKA, Spartak, Zenit) have sugar daddy's.

I like the idea of picking a lower league and moving around the league to different teams (they can be the ones in 2nd, 3rd place etc...) and then making them a good European team. A league around the level of Romania, Serbia, Sweden level, somewhere around the 10th best league or lower. If we picked Iceland it might be too tough to bring in foreign talent which is not fun. I think it would work very well, if we do this with 4 teams or so I believe the teams would do decent in Europe and raise to co-efficient.

I would rather not have a sugar daddy for more of a challenge. The game will always remain challenging because you'd be moving to a new team where you must build them up again, and you could always return to an old team after 5-10 years after the AI messes them up again. I think it would still be fun growing young prospects because we could still see how they develop in a team other than ours knowing we were the ones that brought them in.

Sticking to one team will definitely remain boring, especially in a higher league like Russia. In my Ajax save I had the best squad in the world in 5 seasons. Add a few more seasons to that depending on the starting team and you will always create a super power (even with Chelmsford).

I would prefer an English club since that's just the league I'm most interested in, but I think no sugar daddy is the way to go. We did that with Chelmsford and now it's time for a new challenge.

Agree with Alex about changing clubs, I thought we formed a bond with Chelmsford and I'd like to do that with another club.

I would still play if we were in a nation other than England.

I think if we do this, the main criteria for choosing a club is one with a stadium that could conceivably be fine even in the top league of the nation. Because reaching the Premier League with a 7000 seat stadium is stupid.

Same club imo too. And no Sugar Daddy. I'm still enjoying keeping it solo for the moment, but will definitely jump in at some point (Y)

I'm interested. Same club, no sugar daddy, and I still think Vladivostok would be fun and a club that we could build up a connection with. England would be a bit boring in my opinion, especially after the immense success of Chelmsford. It'd be fun to try something different (as I've attemped before... clearly Soccergaming wasn't ready for Cuba and Madagascar). I'll probably participate in any case.

I'm fine with same club, and while I'd rather no sugar daddy, I wouldn't object to it too much. I'd rather not play in England though.

Can't commit to it just yet, but i'd be interested this year. Hopefully new job soon, releasing my evenings for some hardcore FM.

I think for a community game it will be much too difficult to start with a club that is low enough (to promote a long game) without a sugar daddy. There is no way in the world, we could take Vladivostok to the top without sugar daddy. If you guys tell me different I'm worried about the use of saving/loading and FMRTE!! But up to you guys. I've said what I'd like, and in my eyes it can be made best of both worlds - long lasting (when sugar daddy goes (maybe we could say one season for each player on sugar daddy, then switch it to background), but also challenging, and made harder as we get to the top - so the challenges can continue.

I dunno about community games, but it's definitely possible to take a bad club to the top without cheating. Maybe not if you're constantly losing money and are in the red, but generally, it's possible, and if it's possible, why can't we do it in a community game?

I think seeing that it's mostly us that know each other that will join, that no one will be gay enough to cheat.

I think community games are harder to build, as every year a new guy brings new tactics, wants to play in a different way, and the guys he wants to buy/sell (ie. who is important to his formation etc) changes. Plans change, so different things are required. It therefore makes it easier to play from the bottom in a game by yourself (in my eyes).

I'd like to think we wouldn't cheat, because it's a community game, but I still have my major doubts about taking someone like Vladivostok to be a competitor in Europe, which we'd need to do if we're going to use DLR at all. It would take years and years of building.

There is no way in the world we would have taken a side like Chelmsford to the top (at least not in any feasible amount of time) without Sugar Daddy. Read LLM stories on the FM forums, and it takes much much longer than that to get near the top. And without going near the top DLR won't come into play anyway.

Extremely interested perhaps the only reason to convince me to play FM/computer game again. When this is released I will purchase the game, Best news I heard on SG in a while tbh. Where is Bobby when you need him! :(

I agree Alex. I mean it's much harder to do it as a community game, but with Chelmsford we still used FM10, which means this game could last like 1,5 years, which IMO gives us plenty of time to at least regularly win the national division.

Hmmm, I think Alex does have a point. Could be 10 years of "out in the Group Stage again" and that's after 10 years of "still in the 3rd division sponsored by Yugo".

Perhaps but realistically that's how it would happen, no? A sugar daddy wouldn't buy a team so low down the ranks, at least not today's sugar daddys.

Yeah, but it depends a little. If it's in Russia and it's just some idiot with loads of oil money he could decide to make something big of his 'local' team, or his team from when he was a kid. Or whatever.

Either way, it's not 100% realistic, definitely not. But it's more realistic than taking that crap side to the top WITHOUT a sugar daddy. In modern day football, that wouldn't happen. And to be honest, if everyone plays 100% without cheating, I think it'd take a long long time to be playing ok in europe.

I agree Alex. I mean it's much harder to do it as a community game, but with Chelmsford we still used FM10, which means this game could last like 1,5 years, which IMO gives us plenty of time to at least regularly win the national division.

I was thinking this today actually. It seems once every two years makes more sense for succession game than once every year. However Chelmsford slowed down big time during FM11 being out. There is not much chance of the game still being very popular once FM14 or FM15 (WOW, I'll be 31 then :( ) are out.

I don't think I would mind a sugar daddy. We've had loads of fun with Chelmsford, and Nimreitz and I had fun games with MTK and Dukla Prague that way. And in Russia it could be possible. I did some research last year, and some billionaire bought a relatively new club (Krasnodar, founded in 2007) in the Second Division a couple of years ago. They're now in the First Division of Rusland. We could make up a backstory of Luch-Energiya Vladivostok like that (and they're already sponsored by Luch-Energiya), for example a rich port boss (Vladivostok is one of the main ports of the world). Plus the location of Vladivstok is amazing, right by Russia's borders with North Korea and China.

http://seacucumbercliffs.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/vladivostokrussiamap.gif?w=344&h=344&h=344

I'm sorry for mentioning Vladivostok all the time :P, but I think it'd be a pretty cool game. If it doesn't happen in the Succession Game, I'm just going to start the game myself.

I don't think I would mind a sugar daddy. We've had loads of fun with Chelmsford, and Nimreitz and I had fun games with MTK and Dukla Prague that way. And in Russia it could be possible. I did some research last year, and some billionaire bought a relatively new club (Krasnodar, founded in 2007) in the Second Division a couple of years ago. They're now in the First Division of Rusland. We could make up a backstory of Luch-Energiya Vladivostok like that (and they're already sponsored by Luch-Energiya), for example a rich port boss (Vladivostok is one of the main ports of the world). Plus the location of Vladivstok is amazing, right by Russia's borders with North Korea and China.



I'm sorry for mentioning Vladivostok all the time :P, but I think it'd be a pretty cool game. If it doesn't happen in the Succession Game, I'm just going to start the game myself.
Yeah, it's all the oil rich idiots who don't know what to do with they money. It's a hobby for them.

And Vladivostok sounds great to me, because there was an old TV commercial in Australia that mentioned the place :D

I definitely think if we go sugar daddy, we need to pre-agree when we switch him to background. Like after ten years, 8 years, or if we want we can say something like 'after three years in europe'.

Have we settled on Russia? I'd prefer a place with relatively lenient foreign player laws, but it's not a big issue. What are the rules for foreign players in Russia?

Ukraine, Poland, Croatia, Romania, Norway, Denmark, Sweden, Belgium, etc all sound good, too. I think Belgium would be my favorite, but it's quite unimportant.

No one say we should pick Russia because of oil money because that's stupid. We should pick based on the game aspects, not based on the believability of a made-up backstory.

Hahaha imagine the poor bastards from Spain or somewhere having to fly to basically Japan to play a Champions League tie! :D

Have we settled on Russia? I'd prefer a place with relatively lenient foreign player laws, but it's not a big issue. What are the rules for foreign players in Russia?

Ukraine, Poland, Croatia, Romania, Norway, Denmark, Sweden, Belgium, etc all sound good, too. I think Belgium would be my favorite, but it's quite unimportant.

No one say we should pick Russia because of oil money because that's stupid. We should pick based on the game aspects, not based on the believability of a made-up backstory.

Yeah definitely agree. But Russia is also good because of the idea of playing in Vladivostok :P

And, as someone mentioned before, it's also part of the fun that we go to a League that has some teams that used to be big clubs. With DLR, and us winning europe (and hopefully making some of the other big clubs in that nation rich too) then they could also return to past glories a bit.

Russia has some big clubs.

PS. I'm a bit anal, and if we do go with this, can I create the game? I'm happy not to play first (or even second) season, but I'd like to do it to set up the sugar daddy thing, and also the size of the DB (can we run a fairly big one - i hate having loads of players not there) and also to get rid of the fake Japan, etc.

Yes, I agree Az & Alex, I prefer Russia because of Vladivostok and the numerous possible rivalries (Zenit, Spartak, CSKA, Lokomotiv, Anzhi, you name 'em), not for the game to be realistic with a sugar daddy.

Belgium is too bleh in my opinion. Is it even a real country? I heard it might be a hoax and that when you cross the southern border of Holland you'll be in France. But really, Belgium's like Switzerland, nobody cares.

We could start a game in what used to be Transylvania... Romania, that is. Count Dracula buying up a football team, hehehe.

PS. Night games only in Transylvania!

Yes, I agree Az & Alex, I prefer Russia because of Vladivostok and the numerous possible rivalries (Zenit, Spartak, CSKA, Lokomotiv, Anzhi, you name 'em), not for the game to be realistic with a sugar daddy.

Belgium is too bleh in my opinion. Is it even a real country? I heard it might be a hoax and that when you cross the southern border of Holland you'll be in France. But really, Belgium's like Switzerland, nobody cares.

We could start a game in what used to be Transylvania... Romania, that is. Count Dracula buying up a football team, hehehe.

PS. Night games only in Transylvania!

They don't even have a government! :-(

Vladivostok still sounds great, BTW.

Yeah, I like the idea of Valdiwhatever actually, and I doubt I'll play in Russia otherwise, so I'm game.

Just one thing, regarding loading nations, I think whoever's playing should communicate with the next guy. My PC isn't that good, I am currently running 11 leagues on my save and while it's not too slow, it'd be too slow for me to run a full season in a week or so, so if Fili was behind me for example, I'd ask him to remove a few leagues if there were too many, and if Alex was in front of me and he had a great PC, I could load more leagues for when it's his turn.

Why the person behind you? Because leagues have different loading dates, and if we play Russia, the loading date for most leagues would be midseason.

Sound good for y'all?

Yeah. I wouldn't mind any eastern block country to be honest. Russia is the most appealing though, because it's the biggest, AND whilst it's not a big issue to me, it's also the nation that could feasibly become a football world power again.

Trouble with that theory Az, is that it's not purely the number of leagues you have running that slow down/speed up the game. It's also the number of active players (which makes a big difference, and I'd prefer not to have too little there!) and also detail level of each (which you can turn down yourself immediately).

But still a good idea.

I think Vladivostok with a sugar daddy would be incredibly fun and I throw my full support behind it. Those away ties in Europe are going to be BRUTAL!

Alex, before you set up the game, who is the manager? Senor Pablo again? I think that Vladivostok's location and the possible shady connections of our oligarch owner provides the perfect opportunity... Kim Jong-sung, North Korean.

Jong-sung is just combining the Il-Sung and Jong-Il, but it continues the "is he related to that authoritarian communist family?" theme.

On the question of what leagues to load, I think we should go down into the Russian pyramid 2 or 3 levels (whatever is available), plus the top divisions in relevant Former Soviet Nations (mainly Ukraine and Belarus), then the main ones for realism (England, Spain, Italy, Germany, Holland, France, Portugal). That's 11 or 12 leagues running in 10 nations, which should be manageable for most comps. Maybe a little slow for crappy ones like mine.

I think Vladivostok with a sugar daddy would be incredibly fun and I throw my full support behind it. Those away ties in Europe are going to be BRUTAL!

Alex, before you set up the game, who is the manager? Senor Pablo again? I think that Vladivostok's location and the possible shady connections of our oligarch owner provides the perfect opportunity... Kim Jong-sung, North Korean.

Jong-sung is just combining the Il-Sung and Jong-Il, but it continues the "is he related to that authoritarian communist family?" theme.
I can make the save without adding a manager. I will have to make a chairman though. We should look up Vladivostok's richest man.

Also, how long do we keep Sugar Daddy on foreground for? 8 seasons? 10 seasons? 3rd season in Europe? They're my suggestions.

I'll load:
England (down to conference or League 2?)
Spain (3 tiers?)
Italy (3 tiers?)
France (2 tiers?)
Germany (2 tiers?)
Holland (2 tiers)
Portugal (1 tier, or two??)
And some of: Czech, Ukraine, Belarus, Bulgaria, Poland, Hungary and Romania (eastern block??)

The advantage we have here, is I can load these leagues as view only as well? Which uses LOADS less processing power. In fact I think England, Spain, Italy etc should all be view only as well.

Then I think we need to load LOADS of players - that is the important part.

Optional, but in my games, I also like to load (as view only - which as I said uses much less resources) load a league from South America, North America, Asia and Africa, so that all the continental competitions are played, and therefore the World Club Champs etc is more accurate. If we load those leagues, on view only, and ensure that the detail of the matches is switched to lowest, it shouldn't effect things too much. Let me know what everyone thinks about that.

Why the hell would you load all these leagues? I'm with Nimreitz; just load all Divisions from Russia, the top ones from the available former Soviet countries (Ukraine and Belarus) and then the top divisions of Europe's main leagues (England, Spain, Italy, Germany and France). You could put them on view-only, yes. I don't see the point loading lower tiers in these countries, because it's pointless and trivial to follow these leagues. Same counts for the Czech Republic, Bulgaria, Poland, Romania, etc, and leagues outside of Europe... who cares about the Club World Championship? But yes, large database.

And just make Vladivostok's current chairman a sugar daddy. And I love the idea for our manager Kim Jong-sung. (H) Alex, you want to play first, right? Whoever plays first should just load the game and add the manager.

Why the hell would you load all these leagues? I'm with Nimreitz; just load all Divisions from Russia, the top ones from the available former Soviet countries (Ukraine and Belarus) and then the top divisions of Europe's main leagues (England, Spain, Italy, Germany and France). You could put them on view-only, yes. I don't see the point loading lower tiers in these countries, because it's pointless and trivial to follow these leagues. Same counts for the Czech Republic, Bulgaria, Poland, Romania, etc, and leagues outside of Europe... who cares about the Club World Championship? But yes, large database.

And just make Vladivostok's current chairman a sugar daddy. And I love the idea for our manager Kim Jong-sung. (H) Alex, you want to play first, right? Whoever plays first should just load the game and add the manager.

Yeah, I got carried away with the Eastern countries, and with the others because in my games I move around a bit (and usually get involved with a National Team too).

I'm also anal about realism, and like as many leagues as feasible. The reason we need some lower tiers is because I'm fairly sure that is where we'll be getting some players - at least to start with. Also, we need to look at who will be in Europe with us (later on), so I think having Portugal, and Holland in that group of nations you mentioned is good. They're also breeding grounds.

Oh, I'm not playing first. I rather like the idea of first player not starting the game to be honest.

I don't know about the idea of Kim Jong-Sung. Not convinced there. To be honest, I'd rather another Castro game. Or even something else altogether - just something random.

Kim Jong-Sung is my finest work and if you don't use him I definitely will. Pablo already has a history, we need a new guy. Vladivostok is RIGHT NEXT TO North Korea. North Korea is a total weird ass mystery of a country and it would be fun to have a refugee/privileged person allowed to go abroad particularly with dubious qualifications.

I picked "Pablo Castro from Cuba" because it's just so unusual. Who was the last Cuban footballer you could name? Can you name a single one ever? I can't. North Korea is kind of the same, although a few guys have played abroad in recent years; Hong was at Rostov for a few seasons although doesn't seem to have made a mark. Also the communist link at least ties this all together.

Alex, your league suggestions are preposterous, it would take me months to finish a season. I don't care for view-only, and my laptop has been serviceable with ~10-12 leagues running and large database putting all the leagues in the foreground. However I do understand it's not the same for everyone, so I would be fine if France, Holland, and Portugal were view-only to help out. Other eastern European leagues aren't necessary, but if you do want maybe Romania (for sure IMO, best east Europe talent ground), Serbia, Poland, Czech Republic, Croatia etc I would suggest leaving out Portugal, Holland, and France in that order. I'd be fine if Germany was left off too.

Also, I forgot to mention Brazil. Always include Brazil's top division. If I start a game without Brazil, I restart.

EDIT: Now that I think about it, France, Portugal, and Holland seem unnecessary to me. Good players that get produced simply won't come to Russia. On the other hand, Brazilians will, and then I say pick 2 more Eastern Euro nations as well. I think Romania is the best as I said above, but I could see some others, namely Croatia and maybe even Turkey.

Kim Jong-Sung is my finest work and if you don't use him I definitely will. Pablo already has a history, we need a new guy. Vladivostok is RIGHT NEXT TO North Korea. North Korea is a total weird ass mystery of a country and it would be fun to have a refugee/privileged person allowed to go abroad particularly with dubious qualifications.

I picked "Pablo Castro from Cuba" because it's just so unusual. Who was the last Cuban footballer you could name? Can you name a single one ever? I can't. North Korea is kind of the same, although a few guys have played abroad in recent years; Hong was at Rostov for a few seasons although doesn't seem to have made a mark. Also the communist link at least ties this all together.

Alex, your league suggestions are preposterous, it would take me months to finish a season. I don't care for view-only, and my laptop has been serviceable with ~10-12 leagues running and large database putting all the leagues in the foreground. However I do understand it's not the same for everyone, so I would be fine if France, Holland, and Portugal were view-only to help out. Other eastern European leagues aren't necessary, but if you do want maybe Romania (for sure IMO, best east Europe talent ground), Serbia, Poland, Czech Republic, Croatia etc I would suggest leaving out Portugal, Holland, and France in that order. I'd be fine if Germany was left off too.

Also, I forgot to mention Brazil. Always include Brazil's top division. If I start a game without Brazil, I restart.

EDIT: Now that I think about it, France, Portugal, and Holland seem unnecessary to me. Good players that get produced simply won't come to Russia. On the other hand, Brazilians will, and then I say pick 2 more Eastern Euro nations as well. I think Romania is the best as I said above, but I could see some others, namely Croatia and maybe even Turkey.
Once DLR starts in season 12, and we're winning everything, Good Dutchies and Franchies WILL come to Russia!! :D

I did get carried away with Leagues, I said that! :(

View Only is all you need these days - you can add the players you want from the database anyway in the game set up. And as we won't be leaving Russia, why make other leagues playable? If we really want, we can add ability to play it later on.

I'd propose:
Playable:
Russia: All Tiers
View Only:
England: EPL, Championship, L1, L2
Spain: Two Tiers
Italy: Two tiers
Germany: Two Tiers
France: Two Tiers
Holland: Top Tier
Portugal: Top Tier
Ukraine: Top Tier
Belarus: Top Tier
Brazil: Top Tier

Do we want Romania and Czech? I think no?

Then DB: Large + Players from Top Division Clubs in Europe + Current International Players: South America, Europe, Asia, North America and Africa.

Last thing before I start the game, what is the limit on years as Sugar Daddy?

Dan - I've been talked into the Kim Jong thing. Forgot about proximity to North Korea. That said, he (or another family member) could make a really good chairman too??

This guy could be a good Chairman too:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladimir_Nikolayev

Is it safe to assume Dan (as initial game creator) or Az (this thread started) are playing first (and second?) season??

Basically ready to go. I made a couple of the big Rusian Premier League sides have chairmen that were background or foreground sugar daddies (only 2-4 clubs - not telling which but it should become obvious!). But don't want to give them money at this stage, incase they start buying crazy straight away. Either way, it should make it harder for us to compete, should we get promoted to the top flight.....and it should make it so once we start competing in Europe, the others can compete with us still...

I also through in a couple of hidden secrets - like a Champions League kit (doesn't change from our normal one much) which we'll wear once we're in the Champions League, and a special 2017 kit, for the 100th anniversary of the Russian Revolution (hey it's the far far east, right near North Korea and China!?). Not so hidden any more. I hope they work. I think there is one more little hidden thing I did. Nothing that will effect the game in anyway though!

Uploading now.

We still have to make a rule about changing from sugar daddy foreground, to background, and then under writer.

I think maybe we change to background after our first year in the Champions League (not just Europe, but Champions League PLEASE NOTE: background you still get good money from the chairman). Then after either: 5 years in Champions League OR we win the Champions League we change it to Underwriter (still a rich man owns you, but he only throws in money to pay off debts).

Just noticed something that is annoying me is I didn't capitalise Sung. Might correct that when it comes around to me, unless someone else wants to.

BAM!
http://www.fileserve.com/file/FKFDrWV/Succession.fm

Dan or Az?

Not me, I thought we'd be talking this over for a while longer.

Little surprised you took matters in own hands, Alex, especially considering you're not planning on playing first. Let other regulars have their say about the set-up of the game.

And again, I have no idea why we sould select 4 tiers in England. Premier League is more than enough... there'll be plenty of good players available for Vladivostok regardless of all these extra leagues. (EDIT: I now notice you put them on view-only, so it's not that bad for slower computers.)

I don't see any point in having more than one tier in any league other than our own, or maybe some of our neighbouring leagues. Still, full Russia and top tier for 8-10 leagues or so should be good enough. Anyone who wants less or more should just load them when it's his turn. If I get stuck with 20 leagues I'm just gonna lose interest because it'd take too long to play.

I can do it again. It's no issue.

I'd prefer more than one tier so that it opens up possibilities for buying. We will be buying players from below the premiership to start.

As I said, happy to start it again whenever. Wasn't hearing much discussion and that I did hear I took into account. Just let me know what needs changing. Not sure how much we're going to discuss it before we do it though!!

All the leagues are on view only, except ours. Silly to do anything else. Az-you can't add leagues to view only. Only to playable.

This year view only seems further removed from other years. It's more about the number of players in the database, and playable leagues, as far as slowing down the game goes. With playable leagues, we can also turn match detail right down too (for instance once we're promoted to top flight in Russia turn the second tier right down, and before we make it to Europe, turn Europe detail right down). Those details make much bigger impact than how many view only tiers you have in England.

As Juve mentioned, view only does have quite an impact.

But as I said, it's all really not an issue for me. If we're that scared of speed I can start it again with even less view only leagues. I was just trying to get something up before I went to bed so we could hook in!

Generally I only go below the Top Tier in the league I'm playing in and I also usually add the Championship. I'd suggest that. 2 tiers in Germany/Spain/Italy/France just seems completely unnecessary and 4 in England is lunacy.

View Only has always done very little IMO and isn't really worth it. It's why I usually only have Playable leagues even if I don't intend to ever manage in Brazil.

That mafia guy as the chairman sounds like a great idea.

1917 anniversary kit is hilarious, but I would imagine the Port of Vladivostok relishes its new capitalist nature, and surely the oligarch chairman does.

Since I think we should take away several leagues, I still propose adding a couple eastern european leagues since they can provide many of our players. Turkey is always a fertile breeding ground for talent, as is Romania, so I'd add those. After that maybe some Yugoslav Republics like Serbia or Croatia. Top leagues only of course. My other suggestion would be to add South Africa since those players go anywhere, and it seems like the quality of South Africans has been boosted considerably this year.

Alex, I really don't think you need to worry about lower tier players even when we're just starting out. First of all, lower league teams in a large database will still have most of their best players if the top tier is loaded. Secondly, I just don't know how many Western Europeans we'll be buying anyway.


Like Az, I didn't think we would be starting so quickly. I'm enjoying my Gladbach game right now. In a week or two if no one has started I'll do it, but I'm not interested at this moment.

Generally I only go below the Top Tier in the league I'm playing in and I also usually add the Championship. I'd suggest that. 2 tiers in Germany/Spain/Italy/France just seems completely unnecessary and 4 in England is lunacy.

View Only has always done very little IMO and isn't really worth it. It's why I usually only have Playable leagues even if I don't intend to ever manage in Brazil.

That mafia guy as the chairman sounds like a great idea.

1917 anniversary kit is hilarious, but I would imagine the Port of Vladivostok relishes its new capitalist nature, and surely the oligarch chairman does.

Since I think we should take away several leagues, I still propose adding a couple eastern european leagues since they can provide many of our players. Turkey is always a fertile breeding ground for talent, as is Romania, so I'd add those. After that maybe some Yugoslav Republics like Serbia or Croatia. Top leagues only of course. My other suggestion would be to add South Africa since those players go anywhere, and it seems like the quality of South Africans has been boosted considerably this year.

Alex, I really don't think you need to worry about lower tier players even when we're just starting out. First of all, lower league teams in a large database will still have most of their best players if the top tier is loaded. Secondly, I just don't know how many Western Europeans we'll be buying anyway.


Like Az, I didn't think we would be starting so quickly. I'm enjoying my Gladbach game right now. In a week or two if no one has started I'll do it, but I'm not interested at this moment.

Sounds like a plan. However, I disagree about view Only. View Only means the sides are much more active in the transfer market, as they play league games (with basically no detail recorded). In my experience it leads to a much more active transfer world, where players go to places apart from the active nations.

However, I guess having nothing but top tiers won't be an issue once we start playing better sides.

So no Serie B or Segunda? And apart from that, same nations as I chose, but only top flight in all except England-where we'll have championship?

And if we add eastern Europe, surely Czech has to be one of the first?

I don't like South Africa being added. Much less comes out of there, than somewhere like Japan. And Japan is so close. I'd probably think if we're worried about speed, we don't add either.

As for the Revolution kit-let's not let facts get in the way of a good story!

I agree, I think we should add a working J-League and possibly a working K-League as well.

I've obviously enabled the J-League (ie. removed the licensing block), but there are no J-League players in the game (except three Aussies I've added to my database who play in Japan and for the national team - as my game at home with this DB is as Aussie National Team manager!)

So it'd be fine to add J or K League, except that J-league would start empty (although that would be fixed by that "add players to active squads" or whatever it is tick box at the start of the game?)

That's too bad about the J-League. I don't think it's worth it TBH. K-League should be roughly as good though. Not as much money, but Korea's players are equal to Japan's.

Yeah. When it's time, if no J-League expansion has been created, I'll see what happens if I start a game with J-league. If it fills it with guys, i'll leave it in. I'm fairly sure none of us know many J-League players anyway...

I had to buy a new computer, so if I can't find a way to transfer my Gladbach/City game over (motherboard issues), I'll start this.

I'm off work tomorrow. Can I start the save game and upload it then??

Which Leagues do we want??

Well, we're not planning on moving anywhere, so, I'd say entire Russian pyramid is playable, maybe a couple of neighbouring nations, and some europeans nations, or Brazil, Japan, something, on view-only.

So let's build up a list:
Playable:
All Russian

View Only:
England 2 tiers
Italy 1 tier
Spain 1 tIer
Germany 1 tier
France 1 tier
Holland 1 tier
Ukraine 1 tier
Korea 1 tier
Japan 1 tier
Brazil 1 tier

Other possibilities:
Romania
Czech
China
Croatia
Turkey
Serbia
Portugal

I'm not sure Japan is playable btw, did anyone check that out?

I think Serbia and Croatia would make good additions. I'd take out the Championship. Haven't tried playing with just one nation loaded and a lot on view-only, but if it's not too taxing on my PC, I'd add even more. Are Belarus and any other Russian neighbours playable?

Japan isn't, unless you guys have some modified db.

I say you also start a new thread when you post your first update Alex, makes things easier (Y)

Japan isn't but I got a good file from someone that makes it :D

Awesome. Getting ourselves the next Nakata would be priceless.

Oh and one last thing, what are we doing with Sugar Daddy. I actually think it was agreed to have him on for the first while, and then make him background (so he only gave us money when we absolutely needed it). What are we saying as time frame?

10 years foreground
3 years background
then onto underwriter?

If someone keeps track, sure!

If someone keeps track, sure!

I'll put the hand over year in the first thread. No big deal if miss it by one.

Games up!! :D

So what are the playable nations? Is our a large database? Did you add Belarus and another eastern european league like serbia or croatia or romania or greece or turkey? Why so impatient?

I can do it again (again) :)

More than happy to. I got it up, because I thought now you didn't have a game, you'd want to play?

Custom DB. All Russian players, then top players from each continent (and most national teams) covered. Plus a few others here and there (high rep players in South America, Asia and Europe etc).

I had only Russia (both divisions) as playable, then view only (remember you can up detail levels or make any 'playable' at beginning of next season now, but as Az said, we're not changing sides).

Top two tier in England.

Top tier in:
Germany
France
Italy
Spain
Netherlands
Portugal
Japan
Korea
Brazil

What else did we want?
I'll experiment with game speed now after adding Belarus and Ukraine (which I forgot anyway!!)

I'm also going to start the game in 2012. I'd rather that than 2011 :)

Haven't got my new laptop yet, not sure if I can get my save... not to mention other, uh... More personal stuff off my old hard drive. But yeah, I'll play, I'm not upset, I'm actually kind of excited right now. Just wasn't some more leagues, and are we sure view only actually does anything?

Definitely belarus and ukraine, but I guess we don't need anything after those. Excuse my swype errors until tomorrow.

What do you mean "actually does anything"?

What do you think having the league playable does?? It adds players, means you can see the league, means you can take over a team there etc.

View Only, from what I understand, means that you can see the league, players aren't automatically added (but you can change that with DB size) and from my experience it means the side is more active in the transfer market etc than completely inactive sides.

Either way, I'm restarting, because I forgot the Ukraine. I'll also add Belarus.

Any other changes suggested by anyone??

Made those changes, and done the reup.

I can, of course, do it again if anyone requests something different before Dan gets his Computer.

I guess my issue in the past had been that it doesn't add the players now that I think about it.

I'dd take out the championship and add Croatia or another eatern european league. Even Czech Republic, Romania, anything. Consider that part of the fun will be making Russia a superpower, so being able to compete with the other leagues, and have them actually challenge us in Europe is more important than having the championship. Frankly, I'd even consider taking out one of the bigger nations and putting another smaller European one, like Switzerland, Poland, etc.

The issue with other Eastern European leagues is that the DLR won't impact them, so they'll end up weak, as always, and redundant once we become good.

Switzerland I don't see the point of at all, not really Eastern European, and it's not big. It'll end up just wasting away.

Championship is there on an earlier suggestion.

Also adding the Championship doesn't slow the game down as much as adding a whole new nation.

You could use editor files. Each player will have to download the file seperately, which could be a bit annoying.

For example, Georgia:
http://thedugout.net/community/showthread.php?t=78839

Dinamo Tblisi is a pretty legendary club. You could perhaps even give them a sugar daddy beforehand to create another rival. It'd be pretty cool to compete with these old former Soviet greats in Europe.

Switzerland was just an example of a league that would be within out range. And leaving them behind would happen way in the future. We'd probably have a good 10 seasons with them as direct rivals.

Georgia, Armenia, etc would be all pretty sweet.

I think the Championship suggestion was yours Alex. I personally see no reason for it, we won't have anything to do with England, and certainly not with their fringe clubs. In our long Chelmsford career, I don't recall any other promoted club getting into Europe, much less becoming a European force. Doesn't add anything.

Yeah, the Championship players likely won't be interesting for us at any point either. Never had an Englishman under contract at Dukla Prague for example. Doesn't really suit Vladivostok either. I'm imagining a team full of James Bond bad guys; work rate 20, stamina 20, natural fitness 20, concentration 20, etc. That and a couple of miserable Brazilians... better yet, imagine signing Balotelli for Vladivostok. (H)

No it wasn't. I had loads of tiers originally of a few leagues (because that's how I play) but someone said top tiers only, plus championship.

When do you think we'll be up again Georgia, Armenia etc? They won't be in Europe, and once we are, they'll be forgotten.

Also we don't all need the edt file. Once the save is created, the EDT (and the rest of the database) is ignored. The game has everything it needs in the save.

BTW. I'll drop Championship. But I think we're best to add countries like Romania and Czech. They have some historically big clubs which I can give lots of money (but maybe not a foreground sugar daddy so things don't get too unbalanced).

Georgia and Armenia because they'll produce more regens, and as our neighbours, it'd be more interesting. I'd rather have Croatia/Poland/Serbia/Czech Republic/Romania, but they wouldn't make for bad additions.

Also we don't all need the edt file. Once the save is created, the EDT (and the rest of the database) is ignored. The game has everything it needs in the save.
Wasn't the case with the Cuba Succession Game I started. Mrromaniac had to download the editor files in order to load the game on his computer.

OK, I checked the league reps in the game, and I think we should add all the leagues that are above or just behind us in terms of rep (top league only), these are:

England
Spain
Germany
Italy
France
Holland
Portugal
Ukraine
Turkey

Now, I think similar reputation leagues outside of Europe don't matter to us, but, just in case, those would be:

Brazil
Argentina
Mexico

In terms of league competition, the next ones to add would be:

Belgium
Greece
Romania
Switzerland
Israel
Denmark
Czech Republic
Austria

And in terms of cultural links, I'd add:

Serbia
Belarus

Obviously, I'm not suggesting loading all of them, but I think the entire first group, plus Serbia and Belarus, plus a couple from the 2nd group and the non-Europeans we wanted like Japan, should make for a diverse and entertaining game.

What about:
England
Spain
Germany
Italy
France
Holland
Portugal
Ukraine
Turkey
Brazil
Korea
Japan
Belarus
Romania
Czech

Why does everyone associate Serbia so much more with Russia than Romania and Czech?? Romania is further East, was just as communist and I think had just as big clubs. Czech has probably bigger clubs (mainly because Serbia is only a party of Yugoslavia, whilst Czech is over half Czechoslovakia) and again was just as communist...

Wasn't the case with the Cuba Succession Game I started. Mrromaniac had to download the editor files in order to load the game on his computer.

Download my save game and check it. It has Japan EDT.

My understanding is the database is only used when creating the game. And the EDT is basically just a mask over the top of the DB.

Oh wait, I'm thinking of xml database extensions-like the j league. Can someone download the game, and see if it works.

Just downloaded Steam, in the process of downloading FM12. I'll check in the next 2 hours.

Won't be a new game up by then

Yeah, but I can see if that save you already posted works, right?

EDIT: Boom

http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/7651/jleague.png

Sorry guys. Was out until stupid o'clock last night. Starting the game now. Is that league list I put up ok??

I would lean towards having as little number of leagues as possible (with large database) but it seems like the rest are okay with it. Having a lot of different leagues can be cool but most of the time it doesn't affect you to warrant the drain on processing speed.

I'll probably do a season of this later on!

I think the advantage of having more leagues means much more accurate transfer activity. Inactive sides don't really transfer between themselves.

BTW. Horatiu, you can turn down the detail level on all of the leagues, so that it runs them purely as a quick sim. That saves loads of processing power.

If it isn't decided already. I have made an Inter Prague team, you can download it in my thread. Perhaps we could take them to the top.
I mean this:
http://www.foxsports.com.au/other-sports/weird-and-wacky/czech-porn-star-klarisa-leone-set-to-take-over-ownership-of-czech-republic-side-inter-prague/story-fn8boe91-1226197904613

Already started sorry! Think we're set on this idea. The Vladivostok story is a good one!

Maybe next year inter Prague will work. Porn star owner is gold

Already started sorry! Think we're set on this idea. The Vladivostok story is a good one!

Maybe next year inter Prague will work. Porn star owner is gold

Okay then, maybe I'll make my own challenge for it.