Well just arrived in the post this morning. I know its a BETA but the gameplay wont be changing and it is excellent. Although ive only had a quick blast in the master league Im now 2nd from bottom playing on only 3 star difficulty. It is very hard to score.
I thought J League Winning Elevn 5 was hard but this is harder. Well it is on master league anyway.
Going back now for another game.
BTW the commentry stinks but heh whats new.

Any questions please put them below and ill answer them all.
Cheers
Stu

Okay Stuie2k, here are my questions:

- From who did you got that bèta version? Is it because of a certain job you do, or is it warez? :rolleyes: ;)
- Please can you compare if the attributes are really those of Championship manager?
- Please tell us your findings about gameplay/speed etc.
- Does the direction-pad work analog?

I got it from Mirc/Direct connect so it is warez
Even though i have the new Champ Manager I have never installed it so I really couldnt say.
The gameplay is practically the same as J League Winning Eleven 5 although the shooting has improved. I felt that on many occasions for some reasons the ball seemed to be scooped up when shooting at goal. PES there is more power.
The game speed is faster.
Yes the Direction buttons work as do the sticks.

Thanks for the answers!
Just came up with another question, originally posted by culo :

The game has other flaws, like those moments when the ball is in the air and you don't actually have control of your player...he just stands and watches as the AI team wins the header.....and those times when you try to play a medium distance pass direct to one of your team-mates and he just stands there waiting for the ball (you cannot move him) and meantime the oppositioin just stroll in and intercept the pass.

I answered that question on this board with:

This is a problem I recognize and posted a topic about it overhere (don't remember the name of the topic but the_man probably will remember it, because he answered me saying it was a bug indeed.


Please can you tell me if this problem still exists in PES?

1/ whats the players movemont like when recieving the ball and running with the ball
2/what is the shot power like is it harder than pes2 and can u rifle a shot in from 35 yards
3/ what are the keepers like are their reflexes good and can u take control off them like making your own saves or is their just a run out feature
4/ what are the kits like just plain or a bit better
5/ whats your veiw on the game personaly

Han: I don't know about PES but in J-League WE5 this bug unfortunately still exists, although it appears to happen with less frequency than before.

I cannot believe that Konami has not been able to fix this. It is either a neccesary bug for the engine to work (no sense, I know) or Konami just wants to save some improvements for later versions. That way they can keep selling them. This also applies to the team/kit edit that we are all asking about. I mean, it was present in ISS DELUXE back in the SNES, so why can't they just include it, specially now that they have totally ruined the kit appearance in PES.

Oh well...

There are so many EASY ways to avoid this so called bug, like I stated in one of the recent threads. I have been playing ISSPE for a very long time and when I first bought the game, this bug use to happen all the time, know it barely happens. Just keep on playing and you will see they are ways that this can be easily avoided, it took me almost a year, so give it some time:) .

Originally posted by grashed
There are so many EASY ways to avoid this so called bug, like I stated in one of the recent threads. I have been playing ISSPE for a very long time and when I first bought the game, this bug use to happen all the time, know it barely happens. Just keep on playing and you will see they are ways that this can be easily avoided, it took me almost a year, so give it some time:) .

I am sure there are ways to avoid it, but it's better to remove it.
Of course ISSPE2 is a supergame, but there is no need to deny bugs, then it will still be there in 2020 :rolleyes:

I don't think that's a bug per se - I mentioned this before in culo's thread; it's to do with the tactics you use, the individual attacking and defensive bias setting of the player you're passing to, the gloabal attacking and defensive bias at the time of the pass, and the defensive and attacking awareness of the player recieving the pass.

If you have Gary Neville up front (who has low offensive awareness), with a forward red arrow, and your attacking bias is up, and you try to pass to him with a defender nearby, he will not come for the ball. Do the same thing with Batistuta and he will.

This is apparent in JLWE5 because the players all have low ratings (highest I've seen in any category is high 80s that's it, and most are 60s and 70s in each category) including low awareness ratings.

Originally posted by Neutral LFC
I don't think that's a bug per se - I mentioned this before in culo's thread; it's to do with the tactics you use, the individual attacking and defensive bias setting of the player you're passing to, the gloabal attacking and defensive bias at the time of the pass, and the defensive and attacking awareness of the player recieving the pass.

If you have Gary Neville up front (who has low offensive awareness), with a forward red arrow, and your attacking bias is up, and you try to pass to him with a defender nearby, he will not come for the ball. Do the same thing with Batistuta and he will.

This is apparent in JLWE5 because the players all have low ratings (highest I've seen in any category is high 80s that's it, and most are 60s and 70s in each category) including low awareness ratings.

I am not sure, but I think you mean by "attacking bias" pressing R2+O, right? If so, please explain me why Kluivert (no red and no green arrow) will not come to the ball when Zenden passes the bal low from the left wing to him, he looks frozen... Kluivert stood central on the edge of the penalty area ( in the penalty-circle, so to say)
I am talking about a game with NO green and red arrows used and no attacking/defensive bias used (just tried this out).
Hope you can clearify this....:confused:

There are some passes that you can/should make and there are passes that you cannot/shouldn't make. This should be evident from the gameplay vids that I've shown. This is why I use the radar especially for long passes, if there is a defender waiting to pounce on your pass, what's the use of playing the ball there?

This "bug" can be avoided if you guage the passes you make. When you make a pass, the initial movement of the player and the placement of the pass affects whether the player comes to the ball or waits for it to come to him so he can run off with it. If you bring your player towards the ball immediately after the pass is release, you will not see this problem (note:hat doesn't mean that the ball will not be intercepted). But if the ball is coming from the players left and you signal for him to go up field, guess what, he can't go upfield without the ball (well, i guess he could), so he waits to the get the ball, then heads upfield. Just an example.

Edit: If you watch 'Holland vs Brazil 2', for all the passes (including the beginning throw in) the player comes to the ball except for two passes. Both times Stam was recieving the ball and both times I decided not to bring him toward the ball cos there were attackers rushing toward him, if i moved him forward I would have given up the ball.

I am in no doubt that there are times in ISS Pro 2 on PSX that the CPU decides to misplace a pass...I have lost goals on numerous occassions when the CPU suddenly decides that my whole team plays like **** and even the simplest 10 yard straight pass goes straight to the opposition and from the "mistake" they score a goal......don't over-estimate how "intelligent" ISU......sometimes, the CPU just decides to piss you off and make you play a completely inappropraite and erroneous pass, especailly in defence and it's a pain in the ass

ISS can be a real bastard at times...but the sweet honey that it offers sure makes up for it

On the header matter I found this to be true in J league also. Very difficult to win headers. Anyhow I think they have changed this rarther than being a bug. Instead of challanging for a header in midfield with the Shoot button you have to use the pass button instead and you have a very good chance of winning. Same in the area the player will head the ball at goal if he is unchallenged less however if you are challenged you get better results by using the pass button and trying to knock the ball down for a forward the blast in. For me this just looks like an ajustment in the game rarther than a bug. It is more realistic because it stops you or makes it less likely to power heading it in midfield for your forward to simply run on through at goal.
I cant see this being a bug if its in 2 versions one of which is complete (J league)
The keepers reflexes are amazing.
Freekicks are f**king hard-if you surggled in Pro Ev2 my advice is pass it
One 2's are tricky
The dummy shot isnt as nearly as affective when trying to fool defenders (Pro EV2 defenders used to hit the ground 95% of the time)
Lobs are very hard to pull off (Not seen one work yet)
Kits look ok to me but then I dont care abut the frilly **** in a game as long as it lasts long.
You can score from outside the area - I scred with Brazil from about 30 yards bent into top corner

Thats about it for now i think

hehe
was it rivaldo?

Originally posted by the_man
There are some passes that you can/should make and there are passes that you cannot/shouldn't make. This should be evident from the gameplay vids that I've shown. This is why I use the radar especially for long passes, if there is a defender waiting to pounce on your pass, what's the use of playing the ball there?

This "bug" can be avoided if you guage the passes you make. When you make a pass, the initial movement of the player and the placement of the pass affects whether the player comes to the ball or waits for it to come to him so he can run off with it. If you bring your player towards the ball immediately after the pass is release, you will not see this problem (note:hat doesn't mean that the ball will not be intercepted). But if the ball is coming from the players left and you signal for him to go up field, guess what, he can't go upfield without the ball (well, i guess he could), so he waits to the get the ball, then heads upfield. Just an example.

Edit: If you watch 'Holland vs Brazil 2', for all the passes (including the beginning throw in) the player comes to the ball except for two passes. Both times Stam was recieving the ball and both times I decided not to bring him toward the ball cos there were attackers rushing toward him, if i moved him forward I would have given up the ball.

Okay, get it now: It's clearly no bug :o
I played a friendly game and tried out the things you and Neutral LFC said. Everytime when it seemed to freeze again I paused the game and thought what I just did, with your posts in mind.
Most of the time I intended go around a defender and forgot to come to the ball and then to the left. I immediately went to the left. I just tried to move too fast :)
What you said about the evidence in your video's is true, but the only thing I did see, was what YOU did RIGHT, but that doesn't mean that I can see what I do wrong through that. (no good English I think, hope you understand it :) )
What you edited in your post about the videogame vs Brazil was an interesting addition. I didn't figure out sofar that you almost allways come to the ball. I mainly watched the build-up of your attack. I found out that in that Holland - Brazil match only one player (apart from the keeper) was not involved: Zenden. You got two moments that you could play to him and in both ocassions you decide to turn and pass back. Was there a tactical reason? Maybe the rightback was too strong for Zenden? Or was it just coincidence?
Thanks for the help again!

Maybe I misunderstood the original question.
I use the analog stick to do passes a lot. Sometimes, when you do this, you pass to a teammate who btw is wide open, no one marking him, and yet he walks slowly to get the ball, you can't control him, while this happens, the defender who was already beaten catches up to you and takes the ball away.

I have seen this many times and I do not think it has anything to do with strategy or awareness, it IS a bug.

Well, like I said, maybe I misunderstood the question.

Has this happened to anybody else?

And how about that ever present, infamous bug, where you loose control of your player near the sideline and he keeps running after the ball, and you end up giving a throw in to the other team. Or when you mark the player receiving the ball of a throw in near the CPU's goal, and the player just kicks it out of bounds.

geez

Grrr I hate it when that happens , I also experienced the attacker standing frozen wile everything around him continues (while frantically pressing all kinds of buttons). As for the player running the ball over the touchline I must say that KCET have improved that a lot allready during the transition from ISS Pro 1 to 2 (I played ISS one this week, and it's a lot worse in that one).

So what exactly is wrong with the kits in PES?? I haven't read any reviews mentioning this. OK they won't have sponsors names/badges like FIFA, but I don't care about that.

The only screenshot I've seen with an odd kit is the one of Zidane in that pale blue and white - but I assumed that was Euro All Stars, as it's very similar to their kit in PE2. All the others Ive seen (Ireland, England, Brazil, Barca, Argentina Holland Italy) all look right apart from a few small adjustments (England missing their red stripe etc.).

holland have black horizontale stripe
Italy white one

sort of that things

Originally posted by Han


Okay, get it now: It's clearly no bug :o
I played a friendly game and tried out the things you and Neutral LFC said. Everytime when it seemed to freeze again I paused the game and thought what I just did, with your posts in mind.
Most of the time I intended go around a defender and forgot to come to the ball and then to the left. I immediately went to the left. I just tried to move too fast :)
What you said about the evidence in your video's is true, but the only thing I did see, was what YOU did RIGHT, but that doesn't mean that I can see what I do wrong through that. (no good English I think, hope you understand it :) )
What you edited in your post about the videogame vs Brazil was an interesting addition. I didn't figure out sofar that you almost allways come to the ball. I mainly watched the build-up of your attack. I found out that in that Holland - Brazil match only one player (apart from the keeper) was not involved: Zenden. You got two moments that you could play to him and in both ocassions you decide to turn and pass back. Was there a tactical reason? Maybe the rightback was too strong for Zenden? Or was it just coincidence?
Thanks for the help again!

In this first video Zenden didn't touch the ball. In the second, he recieved a long ball, that was about it. Yes it was tactical cos when playing Brazil, R. Carlos leaves the winger sometimes because he knows he has catch up speed to get to the player and tackle the lights out of him. But Cafu (Zenden's defender) sticks tight on him. In all this talk about how I play, we havent' talked about the Radar. I use the radar, a lot. And if you look at the radar, for most of the times I could have passed to Zenden, you would see that it wouldn't have been a good idea. There are a couple times where I could have used Zenden, but I don't trust Zenden against Cafu as much as I trust Overmars against Roberto Carlos. Watch them again and watch the radar. there are two times when Zenden is wide open. the first time I could have passed to him to run down the line a bit, the second time I realized too late cos someone came in to cut the pass off so i went back.

All in all, if I had used Davids to draw Cafu to the center of the defence, I would have used Zenden on the wing to get a few crosses or take on the defender that comes to mark him. Depends on what the defence gives you. :)

In PES most of the kits I have seen are messed up. Like Tim already mentioned, Italy has a horizontal white stripe, Holland a black one, and River Plate has the red stripe vertical, not in the slanted way that is supossed to, which was present in WE5.

No idea why Konami have done this, I'm sure there must be a good reason, licensing, I don't know. I remember old KCET games where the kits where excellent, they even had the crest, even though you couldn't distinguish it.

I think with the involvment of the licensing bodies and the fact that this game is European based, Konami had to be more causious of licensing infringments. That is why no jersey, except for a few, look like the real life replica. As I said, someon must have cracked down hard on Konami for them to make such drastic changes. The kits suck compared to WE5, but the gameplay makes up for it and some

the_man: i agree with you, the gameplay more than makes up for it. The players can have Barney costumes for all I care (well ok, maybe not)

Still, having better kits would've been a big plus

Originally posted by capitanpato
the_man: i agree with you, the gameplay more than makes up for it. The players can have Barney costumes for all I care (well ok, maybe not)

Still, having better kits would've been a big plus

hahaha :p Imagine Po, Tinky-Winky ;) , Laa-laa and Ditsy..er..Dipsy against Barney, Big Bird, Elmo and Earnie.....hehe :D :p

Originally posted by the_man


In this first video Zenden didn't touch the ball. In the second, he recieved a long ball, that was about it. Yes it was tactical cos when playing Brazil, R. Carlos leaves the winger sometimes because he knows he has catch up speed to get to the player and tackle the lights out of him. But Cafu (Zenden's defender) sticks tight on him. In all this talk about how I play, we havent' talked about the Radar. I use the radar, a lot. And if you look at the radar, for most of the times I could have passed to Zenden, you would see that it wouldn't have been a good idea. There are a couple times where I could have used Zenden, but I don't trust Zenden against Cafu as much as I trust Overmars against Roberto Carlos. Watch them again and watch the radar. there are two times when Zenden is wide open. the first time I could have passed to him to run down the line a bit, the second time I realized too late cos someone came in to cut the pass off so i went back.

All in all, if I had used Davids to draw Cafu to the center of the defence, I would have used Zenden on the wing to get a few crosses or take on the defender that comes to mark him. Depends on what the defence gives you. :)

Yes, I noticed you used the right wing for most of your attacks.
Because Roberto Carlos plays attacking if possible, it is a logical choice. On the other hand, you are so dominant that Carlos can't attack :) I expected a bit that you would use Zenden with 1-2's with Davids, or switching wings to surprise Roberto Carlos, or is that too demanding? :)
You play 4-3-3/4-5-1, right? Is Zenden not too much placed to the side-line? When I watch the radar, he most of the time is trapped by Cafu to that side... I use a similar system, but with both wingers a little bit more inside. I have not much experience at hard level though...

Question about the radar: In my game it is at the bottom of the screen: do you like to have it on the top, or can't you change it?

Originally posted by Han


Yes, I noticed you used the right wing for most of your attacks.
Because Roberto Carlos plays attacking if possible, it is a logical choice. On the other hand, you are so dominant that Carlos can't attack :) I expected a bit that you would use Zenden with 1-2's with Davids, or switching wings to surprise Roberto Carlos, or is that too demanding? :)
You play 4-3-3/4-5-1, right? Is Zenden not too much placed to the side-line? When I watch the radar, he most of the time is trapped by Cafu to that side... I use a similar system, but with both wingers a little bit more inside. I have not much experience at hard level though...

Question about the radar: In my game it is at the bottom of the screen: do you like to have it on the top, or can't you change it?

Yeah Cafu is quick and he doesn't give as much space as R. Carlos. The formation i pick in the game is 451 but i modify it so it plays a 433. Well, the reason i have my wingers so wide is to stretch the defence so that Cocu, Davids, Seedorf can have some space to do damage in the middle. You know play it wide and then play it middle and play it wide again, the defence would be stretched thin, more chance for 1 v 1 or thru ball opportunities. Because a good team like Brazil, when there are 2 defenders around you, forget about it, you are losing the ball, but now when i make the defenders chase, I can make the ball do the work for me and let the defenders chase while i'm opening up some holes. Another thing that I have is when I'm really attacking, the wingers move inside to give room to the LB/RB when they move up, so I like it the way they are.

As for the radar, it is my personal preference that I have it on top...it use to be on the bottom but i didn't like that. When I use the driving example with the rear view mirror, i really mean it. Because when you are driving and you glance at the mirror, in your view you still notice whats going on infront of you when you glance up...if you glance down, you don't see the field as well (at least me). So that is why I have the radar up, I'm use to glancing up and then down when I'm driving, so I have the setup i'm use to when i'm playing.

the_man you are really the WE/ISS/PES MASTER i lern allot of things from you evry time i reed your posts you are the besthttp://www.soccergaming.tv/images/icons/icon14.gif

Originally posted by CASH2000
the_man you are really the WE/ISS/PES MASTER i lern allot of things from you evry time i reed your posts you are the besthttp://www.soccergaming.tv/images/icons/icon14.gif

Thanks for the compliment, I wouldn't really consider myself a master...but if you says so, i'm not arguing :p. Just kidding, on a more serious note, I just love football, WE5/PES lets me play football like real life, let's me use managerial skills, things i would think about in real life, this game enables me to make those decisions and then allows you to play it out...thats why we love this game.

the_man, since everybody's picking your brain, maybe you can answer this one for me (or someone else)

Up until now I've only played ISS pe1&2 PSX. Is there a big difference between these two and WE5/PES in the importance/ impact of good management and are there more options here?

I really hope so, cause tweeking a team and then seeing it pay off is just fab....:D

Originally posted by CosaNostra
the_man, since everybody's picking your brain, maybe you can answer this one for me (or someone else)

Up until now I've only played ISS pe1&2 PSX. Is there a big difference between these two and WE5/PES in the importance/ impact of good management and are there more options here?

I really hope so, cause tweeking a team and then seeing it pay off is just fab....:D

Yes for example, in ISSPE2, for offensive awarness you can only go forward or back right? Well in WE5/PES you can go eight directions. You can even set an awareness for the keeper...why I don't know...but anyways. In PES you have more freedom for positional players. There are two boxes there is a lite green box and then a darker green box. The lighter green is the same as in WE5 and ISSPE2, but the darker box is new. You can move a winger from the left side of the field to right side if you want to..thats how much freedom you have with that. Since I don't have the PES manual, i'm not sure what the difference would be. But some of the previews said something about player efficiency..we'll see. In WE5 after a while of playing, and tweaking my formations (when i say tweaking i mean literally changing player position 1 up or 2 down....it takes some time to get the formation you want and the movement that you wan to see from the player), i finally got one that expressed my imagination of how i want to play. Now in PES, you even have greater tools...i'm still working on the formation tho ;)

Now to the heart of the question. The style of play you play against Brazil will be different from the style you'll play against Sweden. On defence you probably want to go Zone against Brazil because they give short passes and they have individual dribblers that can take on defenders. So the need to gang tackle them is very high. So i play a zone and let them fall into the traps so i can double/tripple team to squeez the ball out of them. For Sweden, I'm not really worried about their dribbling skillz, their aerial attack tho, is deadly. So the need to man-mark their forwards is key, also the need to shut down the delivery of crosses is vital if you don't want to give up goals. If you decide to man-mark brazil, you will have a lot of defenders left in the dust. if you decide to play zone against Sweden, you will have a lot of people wide open heading the ball into your net. When I play france, sometimes I double team Zidane cos most of the traffic goes thru him. Stuff like that. Takes some experience to know a teams strength and weakness. So yes, there is a difference because the teams play more differently than their predecessors.

Fantastic, I was hoping (expecting) this would be the case, this is excellent. In ISS pe2 you could just have two 'standard' formations with a few mild adjustments and with them you could take on every team.
Now you have to really study your opponent and, find their strengths and weaknesses and tackle them.
Thanks for the allaborate explanation. :)

Originally posted by the_man


For Sweden, I'm not really worried about their dribbling skillz, their aerial attack tho, is deadly. So the need to man-mark their forwards is key, also the need to shut down the delivery of crosses is vital if you don't want to give up goals. [..] if you decide to play zone against Sweden, you will have a lot of people wide open heading the ball into your net.

Normally Stam and Frank de Boer take the player who comes in their zone. If you want to man-mark the Swedish attackers, do you put the backs on cover, or is it just one on one in the centre of the defence?
Maybe you use Frank de Boer as sweeper and one of the defensive midfielders in a manmarking job, together with Stam? (depending on how deep the attackers play.....)
Just curious how you do play that. I myself never use manmarking....

Originally posted by Han


Normally Stam and Frank de Boer take the player who comes in their zone. If you want to man-mark the Swedish attackers, do you put one of the backs on cover, or is it just one on one in the centre of the defence?
Maybe you use Frank de Boer as sweeper and one of the defensive midfielders in a manmarking job, together with Stam? (depending on how deep the attackers play.....)
Just curious how you do play that. I myself never use manmarking....

Well, it's really up to you how you wanna do it. Depending on the team I use Stam to man mark and then F. De Boer plays zone, which means he will help Stam if he has nothing to do, or he would pick up the second runner. The LB/RB also help out in the defence and then my wingers come back to mark the people that are going wide for crosses. When I use manmarking it's because someone usually gives my defence trouble so i want to cancel him out the game. Especially for those guys with good heading ability. K. Anderson, Batistuta, Andy Cole and oh yeah, Koller...if those guys are free for a second they will punish you. So have big Stam on them, he normally cancels them out for the game. It also depends on how the team plays, like portugal is a 3 man attack team and they are spread out wide. So I have my LB and RB to manmark figo and conciesciao and then Manmark Nuno with Stam because Nuno has a knack for sneaking in behind the defenders, so you have to keep track of him. I normally don't start with manmarking these guys from the beginning, my default defence is zone, flat back four. But when I see danger then I change the tactics.

As you know I have been updating teams for the EPL, and I have been testing them as I go along, when playing with Leeds recently I was getting murdered in the first half as Harry Kewell ran my defense ragged, so I stuck Johnsen on him with Keane acting as a covering player, I cut the supply to Kewell from Bowyer by sticking Wes Brown up against him. For the second half Leeds hardly got a chance!

Also with Man U I have tried playing with formation I am now playing 3-1-2-2-2.

I drop Keane deep covering my defense, Scholes in the centre, Veron on the left, Beckham on the right, Giggs as the offensive half, with Nistelrooy and Solskjaer up front, Solskjaer is pushed right on the last defender, he lacks pace, direct power, and skill but his finishing is deadly. I have Scholes set deep but offensive so he drives through the midfield, it is slightly narrow, but Giggs playing this kind of Zidane roll make best use of his ability, he isnt a great crosser of the ball, but his first touch and dribbling open defenses up. Id wondered whether in real life he might fit this kind of roll but I doubt we'll ever see it....

I see two problems in real life with your formation.
First off, Veron is to much present to play on the left. He'll alwys have a tendacy to go to the middle, so he'll close the openings.

Beckham does this as well, but Man's system is built on this. If both halfs would do this you'd centralise the game to much and no openings would be created.

I also think that Giggs would be really limited in a Zidane roll, because he would not be able to use his speed.

He is most dangerous when he can make a run with the ball and he's not strong enough to hulp up play.

I would probably be inclined to agree on the first point, Im not so sure he isnt strong enough, I think he can be surprising. I often feel he doesnt fulfil his potential on the left because he isnt invloved and lets be honest he cant cross a ball. Maybe he would have been better as a striker like Kewell, but Im not sure..

You're certainly right on his crossings, they're not all that. It would be nice to see, but I think we won't, with so many other options. And Fergie isn't a radical man....