Do I finally have a grip on ps2 issues of what should be two best soccer sims in the world?Ye, I do!
Fof now, I feel dissappoitment, for both, Fifa2002 and PES. After years of playing Fifa games, and especialy fair Fifa2001 for ps2, I have to say that my expectations were higher than ever.
These are my first impressions of both, fifa2002 and pes.
Fifa2002 was introduced as a miracle revolutionary isuue,but,it simply isn’t it. I have to mention that I’ve taken PES, for the first time, as many people have proposed Konami’s series as much more realistic concerning gameplay etc. Yes, PES looks good, but there are so many things missing that it simply makes me sad, as player moves, physics, ball flow, scoring etc is realy close to the real thing. Fifa2002 looks worse than Fifa2001 first of all because of the pitch and second because of the screwed cameras. Situations around goal have a strange angle, that it sometimes makes me wonder if I’m playin’ Fifa99 or the miraculous newest release. Cpu plays exactly the same as in Fifa99 when it comes to chances, it’s hilarious how many times they actually miss. Hitting posts is a hobby of all forwards in this game!Why?Cpu forces long crosses all the time, and I still haven’t been able to form the defence and get the wingback in the right position. Instead, I find my forwards closing the wing runs at the back!!! Sliding tackles on the last defender were always a foul in Fifa2001-now, you simply slide and get away with it!Why, oh why? Ball flows like in Fifa99, exactly the same! (I have to say that I found Fifa99 the worst of all issues, and yet, so many things remind me of it!!!)
Yet, I need to say that gameplay improved greatly. It realy looks like playing a real game when you master the intensity of the power+direction. The players open, run and move in a more realistic matter, but the damn ball still sticks to their feet, although less than before! Don’t try to pass the ball back to your keeper!!! It ends up in the net!!!
Cameras are screwed! The tele camera doesn’t zoom the far side so the players look so small that you hardly see them. The tower cam is always too far, and it’s late, always late of the ball flow.They should have simply kept the cameras and all graphics from Fifa2001, simple as that!!! Audio, in game animations, etc, are brilliant, even better than before! All features in game are very good, commentary fair etc., but this is a game for one player, just one player. And even in playing with two players a side, switching is stupid, passing to myself all the time makes me go crazy!
On the other hand, I was surprised by PES, but not so much.
It looks o.k., concerning graphics, animations,replays, pitch is fair,but a bit too small, flow of the ball is very real, player movements are as close to reality as they can get, shootin', goals, keepers, everything,BUT… The gameplay, of which so many people have talked about isn’t such big delight, but, I have to say that it’s far better than fifa’s previous issues, and now, that Fifa2002 tried to copy this gameplay and some other details, they are very similar games.
No real names, tournaments, poooor commentary(I wonder if it's a chess or soccer match when I listen), kits are disasterous… and, being a fifa player, it’s obviously hard to change the whole system of everything, but…
Perhaps, Konami's gameplay dept. could get a job over at EA, and give us a real game, at last!?!?!
These are my first impressions, after just 20-30 matches.
Please correct me if I’m wrong, and suggest, suggest…

Zemljak, give PES a week and a half of solid play, after that, you'll see that all your FIFA years are a nightmare, and you'll laugh at FIFA just like the rest of us, who've seen the light.

PES has the gameplay, and you wont master it for weeks, and even then, it's depth will mesmerize and astound well into the new year, Even better on multiplayer. This is football, though they've stuffed our beloved Croatian strip, and our vatreni's names.

Another eve of playing abou 20 matches of each game...
I have to say that playing against cpu on Fifa2002 is complete disaster, especially when you play with more people. CPU just pulls you over the midfield line, long cross to the left, makes 1m run and then a 30m cross to the other side, all the ****!ng time!!! It's senseless! It misses about 10 clear chances, and hits post at least 5 times every match. Yeah, you can develop nice passing, but if you get cought losing the ball, about 30m from the opp. goal, you soon get a loooooong cross into your half, EVERY SINGLE TIME! It's stupid! Goal angle is so annoying that I don't know where to aim!?!?! My crew, 5 of us playing almost every day are so annoyed that it realy makes us wonder!?!?!
PES is a game which we are just trying out, I have to stress, for the FIRST TIME, and it realy looks smooth, but for now, very difficult. Names, kits and commentary is annoying, pitch is a bit 'plastic', players a bit too slim, and the keeper punts the ball like in ISS first game that I've seen in '97. Anyway, we'll definitely give it a shot, especially now that we can configure the controllers. Please give some tips for the whole thing!

Zemljak, give it some time, and you'll see it's real football, really.

The graphics are breathtaking in my opinion, I've played the beta verion. The flow is also great. Go to the ISS forum and ask the friendly folk there, they'll tell you all you need to know man.

yeah you should give it a big try, and when you'll be used to it, you'll love it i can assure you (if you're a football fan and want the most realistic gameplay of course...), some people have difficult to play it at the beginning and then they think it's crap after playing only a week or something, but you'll see that after 2 weeks or so, maybe less, you'll enjoy every minute of play (well i got addicted to the game after my very first match even if i lost 6-0 on easy mode :p ).

I bought PES but I've returned it. The gameplay is great that's for sure, the whole game looks great. Only the celebration/carding scene's looks not so good. The commentary is not so good, the rest of the sounds is better then Fifa (no horny players), only after a goal it doesn't sounds great. But the main reason why I returned it, there are no competitions(there are a few european teams but from different country's) and I hate to play with national teams in competiton mode. So if Konami makes the next PES with more clubs then I buy it.

Originally posted by Bad Blue Boy

PES is a game which we are just trying out, I have to stress, for the FIRST TIME, and it realy looks smooth, but for now, very difficult. Names, kits and commentary is annoying, pitch is a bit 'plastic', players a bit too slim, and the keeper punts the ball like in ISS first game that I've seen in '97.

Haaaaaaaa haa :p

Players a bit thin!
Yes I suppose they do look a bit thin compared to the muscle-bound, brick ****houses that run around the fifa pitch. Does Fifa endorse Steroid taking these days?

Most footballers are thin, with the exeption of Mark Bosnich of course.

PES is not a game for first impressions, you only just got the game. The game comes with a learning curve and allot of depth, so it will take a long time before you start realising how good it is, I mean months.

Let me get this right Oval, you returned the game because it had no competitions? did you even bother to look a the MASTER CLUB LEAGUE? were you have two club divisions and you can buy players and you have to pay them wages to stay at your club, bet you didn't even know that it had that.

So you find competitions more important than football itself? well its your taste, but for me football comes first. Just being able to play a game that plays like real life is good enough for me, I don't need no competitions.

Originally posted by Ove Kindvall
I bought PES but I've returned it. The gameplay is great that's for sure, the whole game looks great. Only the celebration/carding scene's looks not so good. The commentary is not so good, the rest of the sounds is better then Fifa (no horny players), only after a goal it doesn't sounds great. But the main reason why I returned it, there are no competitions(there are a few european teams but from different country's) and I hate to play with national teams in competiton mode. So if Konami makes the next PES with more clubs then I buy it.

Everyone knew this since months ago, so why did you bought this game if you knew there was only national teams and a few clubs? Or maybe you didn't informate about that game? (well buying a game without informing yourself sounds really weird to me but hell...)

Originally posted by Ove Kindvall
I bought PES but I've returned it. The gameplay is great that's for sure, the whole game looks great. Only the celebration/carding scene's looks not so good. The commentary is not so good, the rest of the sounds is better then Fifa (no horny players), only after a goal it doesn't sounds great. But the main reason why I returned it, there are no competitions(there are a few european teams but from different country's) and I hate to play with national teams in competiton mode. So if Konami makes the next PES with more clubs then I buy it.

Mate, you will regret that decision if you're a football fan, if you like football, then this is the game(I don't see how you failed to realise this) if you like idiotic licenced crap, then you know which game to buy.

Originally posted by Ove Kindvall
I bought PES but I've returned it. The gameplay is great that's for sure.......But the main reason why I returned it, there are no competitions

;)

To each his own.

Another few hours of PES's behind. I have to say that after just two nights of playing PES, we've aknowledged the dimension of it's gameplay and reality, although it's a completely new experience, for the fingers I mean. There is no smashing buttons, changing players like mad, pressing the fast run like mad, sliding like crazy without getting punished, no pressing conservative tackle with players getting the ball and changing possesion @ 200km/h. The gameplay is smooth, I would say, real that it hurts. Few things couldbe better, but, comparing to all the things missing in this years issue of Fifa, it's minor. Keeper looks a bit unreal in some situations, shooting should be like in Fifa2001(ps2), as well as the goals and goal angles!!! Goalie punts the ball like in rugby, and many long balls get off, above the screen!!!
...

p.s. The players ARE a bit too thin!!! Bosnich is a good goalie!!! How fat is Peruzzi??!!

Let me explain something. The last years I have been disappointed by other footy games so Fifa was the one and only. But in this forum I heard so much good things about ISS that I decided to buy PES. And ZePenguin you're right when you saying that you must gather info before you buy something. But sometimes I'm a little bit impulsive. And when I was playing PES I was doubting if I like it or not. And yes now I've returned it I know I've made a mistake. If I read this thread one hour earlier I never returned it. But I've changed it for another game and the expensive month is coming to us (not only X-mas but in Holland and Belgium we have also "Sinterklaas") so know it's on my list for Santa or Sinterklaas. And otherwise I buy it in january.

Cheers

One thing that's very different is that PES is less exciting than PES, because of it's realistic gameplay, so many Fifa players at first reject this manner of playing. PES gets a bit boring of many wrong passes, losses of possesion when the ball gets just touched by the opponent etc-but isn't just like that in real life?! In real life, only 2 out of 10 matches are exciting, and especially these days when all teams 'know how to play soccer' and all players are physicaly well prepared, it all gets down to skill and strength, and, of course imagination!!! In Fifa, it's all a question of mastering the scheme of the game=how fast you can swap the marker and slide or smash the conservative tackle button,and, in Fifa2002, how far into space you can punt the ball, or, would you simply say-arcade?! One thing that's a bit annoying-shooting! It should be a bit more like in fifa2001, as I've said! when raining, pitch looks funny, I mean, realy rediculous!
...
Question to EA? Why, oh why, does AI play always have the same scheme when attacking? Why in previous issues AI always played 'ground ball', while now 100% of the action ends up with the loooong crosses?? EA tried to copy Konami with many details, which is more than obvious, but it seems that they've got lost by doing so! Why don't they just copy the whole ****!ng thing and give us all the kits and tournaments, animations, graphics and commentary?!They have the money to rent some people from Konami!

BBB,

I'm proud of you mate, just stick with it, and you'll see. Some players are slim, but others aren't, compare Zola to Beckham and you'll see.

Thanks! Of course I'll stick with it, when it is simply a better game, and it's so ***!ng obvious after just having a 'glance' at it!
We are still exploring the game and we find so many new, real things that it makes us sad that we spent so much time smashing those poor buttons(especially fast run) playing Fifa. We'll have to officially apologise to all of our joysticks and promise to never do it again!

Originally posted by Bad Blue Boy
One thing that's very different is that PES is less exciting than PES, because of it's realistic gameplay, so many Fifa players at first reject this manner of playing. PES gets a bit boring of many wrong passes, losses of possesion when the ball gets just touched by the opponent etc-but isn't just like that in real life?! In real life, only 2 out of 10 matches are exciting, and especially these days when all teams 'know how to play soccer' and all players are physicaly well prepared, it all gets down to skill and strength, and, of course imagination!!! In Fifa, it's all a question of mastering the scheme of the game=how fast you can swap the marker and slide or smash the conservative tackle button,and, in Fifa2002, how far into space you can punt the ball, or, would you simply say-arcade?! One thing that's a bit annoying-shooting! It should be a bit more like in fifa2001, as I've said! when raining, pitch looks funny, I mean, realy rediculous!
...
Question to EA? Why, oh why, does AI play always have the same scheme when attacking? Why in previous issues AI always played 'ground ball', while now 100% of the action ends up with the loooong crosses?? EA tried to copy Konami with many details, which is more than obvious, but it seems that they've got lost by doing so! Why don't they just copy the whole ****!ng thing and give us all the kits and tournaments, animations, graphics and commentary?!They have the money to rent some people from Konami!

I refrained from posting here because I knew, 2 weeks later, you will be telling a different story.

For even the experienced players like myself and many others that have played Konami (evolution series) games, it takes about a month to get the 'feel' of the new game. Just go to the ISS&PES forum, you'll see that a lot of people are having trouble with freekicks, some passing and so on. Their games are really deep. Even after that month, you have only been able to say okay, I can make this time of pass, but if there is a player lurking there, I should probably pass back to the keeper...and you have probably gotten a formation that you like (or i should say, that you think you like). Then you start to go up the difficulty levels and after playing Italy, France and Sweden you realise...Italy doesn't hold the ball, they do everything to kill the flow of your game, have so many people behind the ball it is not funny, but Inzahgi, Del Piero and Totti will hurt you on the counter attacks....France, likes to knock the ball around, and then when it gets Zizou, he kills your defence with one pass, you better man-mark him...and Sweden, they knock the ball..aerial route. They love playing in the air, so you should have good CB with good heading capability to counter them. For you guys that are just trying this game for the first time, you haven't seen anything yet. 2 more weeks, you will still be telling a different story.

I'm glad you are enjoying it BBB. As for the guy who returned it...Neutral and grashed have said what i wanted to say. You can't judge these games after 2 days of playing it and to each his own.

As for EA copying Konami, ofcourse they did, I mentioned this after playing the beta, but then stones where thrown at me. It was a good idea, however they failed miserably at it.

After another 30-35 games behind of PES, I have to say that the question that appears most of the time, among five of us is: 'On what the hell have we been wasting our time, our nerves, our youth, playing Fifa pinball issues?!?!?!' PES is simply a perfect game, and we come to discover it by every move, every situation on the pitch! It's a simulation, a perfect one!
One thing that's missin', a ref??Where is the ref??+the goalie reacts funny on high balls, punches the ball high and jumps like in first iss game that I remember.Goal celebrations are way too 'soft', like that they are happening far away!
Anyway, conclusion is-Fifa is HISTORY!(Only thing that still we owe to all of our Fifa CD's, is a decent smashing celebration!)
And, I'm off to a different forum!!!
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the_Man, first of all, thanks, and I'm so glad to see Okocha by your name mate.I'm playing with Nigeria all the time and I have to say that I'm doing quite well with them, being a rookie! First I played with Cameroon, with E'to and the crew, but there are no names+Nigeria is a better side.

BBB,

The conversion is nearly complete !!
Now you too can join our evergrowing army mate !!


Samo su zajebali Hrvatsku majicu, ali to je zbog FIFE i njihove dozvole.

Why? WHY OH WHY OH WHY ???

:( :(

Originally posted by Bad Blue Boy

the_Man, first of all, thanks, and I'm so glad to see Okocha by your name mate.I'm playing with Nigeria all the time and I have to say that I'm doing quite well with them, being a rookie! First I played with Cameroon, with E'to and the crew, but there are no names+Nigeria is a better side.

Heh, cool, yeah JJ's is one of the best in the world, he just doesn't get recognition. I hope Nigeria does well in that group that they have been thrown into.

wheres does Okocha plays nowadays still in Paris ?

Originally posted by bulldrig
wheres does Okocha plays nowadays still in Paris ?

PSG knows better than to sell him. I think he was injured some time ago, i don't know if he is back yet, but imagine he and Ronaldinho making defences look silly