I've been playing FIFA since FIFA '97, and just recently have I purchased my first Konami soccer title: ISS Pro Evolution Soccer.

For one thing, ISS does resemble the "most beautiful game" much more than FIFA, but the controls are absolutely horrendous. Sometimes, you have to hit the pass button 3 or 4 times before your guy actually passes...also, if you're making a lightning run down the screen and if computer is sprinting down the opposite direction, it'll be too late to pass (and at times, the little RADAR is useless because of the superhuman speed that sometimes possesses the ISS players) - and in real football, touching the ball and passing it off is usually just as instant as it is in FIFA - and this is where I give FIFA the big advantage in terms of realness (where you can actually pass the ball at the last sec, and keep one-touching it without having to predict how close computer will be by your 3rd touch).

ISS is a great game, but here are some more weaknesses - player control - whereas FIFA has minimized computer interference in your players, ISS seems to have the devil possessing your team - in most cases where you thru ball, your player will chase it to the ends of the earth even if you know he won't get it - you can even put the controller down and your player will still chase it. Also, in throw-ins, spotkicks, cornerkicks, goalkicks, or whenever the goalie gets the ball, you have absolutely no say in defense: sometimes, it's nice to put some pressure on the goalie so he doesn't just pass it short to waste time.

Also, if you're just making a regular pass on ISS, your player 90% of the time will just sit there and let the ball roll to him even though you see the opponent making a run for it. I think footy coaches call that laziness.

And what's the deal with the tackles? If you're simply putting your foot out to tackle, why does your player 95% always lose his footing and trip over an imaginary crack in the earth? For instance, you can make a go for a ball, or lose a ball, and after that moment, that player will be dazed for like 5 secs just wondering why he couldn't hold the ball. Does that happen in real football? Not likely.

And for God's sake, I've gotten so many redcards from a slide tackle from the FRONT! Why is the ref so generous in rewarding cards? Slide tackling is one of the most used devices in football, why has Konami turned the referee strictness on 100%?

And let's not talk about ISS commentary - even in a drawn out game, the commentator will conclude that "it's a pity there had to be a loser." FIFA easily wins in this department.

So yes, ISS LOOKS much more like the real game, but it does so at the cost of enjoyment. Whereas FIFA is fastfaced, at least the players have control over their players - and I think a video game is more about player control then resembling reality - if you want to see what real football looks like, go watch the real thing.

And then there are some minor flaws in ISS also worth mentioning: in FIFA, after you save a feature, the console will automatically load all of your settings once you start the game - on ISS you have to constantly load and load and load. And you can't even give your players a haircut (I'm kinda pissed that Jancker has hair). And how come at halftime, you can't make any changes? You have to wait during gametime to make subs, formation changes, etc.

But top marks on ISS making the AI a difficult opponent to beat. All in all, I enjoy ISS much better than FIFA, but I'm not going to make idiotic comments like "ISS is what soccer looks like, what game is FIFA playing?" You know, the only difference between those 2 games is player control and tougher AI's. Who cares if you can kill France 17-0 on World Class? What matters is player control, and ISS doesn't have much of that.

Anyone who is reading this do not take any notice of it jus let this post slide down to the bottom.

I don't think you have played ISS PRO EVOLUTION for more than 30 minutes, becasue everthing you say is complete rubbish.

Its obvious you have not played it for long mate, because you think fifa has more player control. That is so funny.



LOL

...I wonder if you really played iss, because it's not like that, anyway continue playing fifa, we don't care...

And btw i got rarely red cards and these are when i miss my tackle, of course if you can't make a tackle, you'll get a red card :rolleyes: (you know that in real football and you make an aggressive tackle, even from the front, the referee will most likely give you a red card...)...

And for the controls, there's an option called 'manual' control...

...Hey maybe you played UAE vs World All Stars and you didn't understand why the all stars where better and than UAE players ran slower and missed most of their tackles...that's one explaination i see...

Geez i don't understand how people can say things like that...I agree iss has a bunch of weaknesses like commentary, but certainly not the one you say...

PS: There is no such thing as iss pro evolution soccer....there is iss pro evolution and pro evolution soccer...dunno what game you played...

HAHAHAHAHA


.....................


after playing iss pe2 fifa 2k2 doesnt even look like soccer anymore not to say football the ball is made out of helium!!its just so pathethic and uncomparable lol i cant believe this guy

Hey, I don't think this guy's an idiot. I don't agree, but I think I know where he's coming from. There's a certain physicality and rawness about FIFA (along with the commentary, it's FIFA''s only good point, I'd say). If you're used to the crunch and clatter of FIFA games, the PS1 ISS games have a kind of laid-back testimonial feel, and until you get the hang of the controls (I mean REALLY get the INSTINCTIVE feel for the controls), it can seem a bit unresponsive.

If like us lot, your first priority is beautiful football, realistic gameplay and a tactical element, you can't get any fun out of FIFA and ISS feels fantastic. But if you come from FIFA world and you don't immediately get the slower and more intricate "feel" of ISS Pro Evo, these things really would get you down. It's all very well for us to scoff, cos we KNOW these things aren't relevant once you're used to the game. But they are weaknesses, at least for your first 6 months with ISS.

HAPPILY - everyone's problems are solved with Pro Evolution Soccer on PS2, which has corrected all of Voltaire's gripes and also builds on what we all love already. KCET have cheekily taken those few little things that FIFA used to do better, and made them their own, as well as taking the realism and gameplay into the stratosphere. One touch passing? If you're good enough it works like a dream. It's just that Egypt can't play keep-ball against Holland, no matter what difficulty level you're on.

The so-called "legend" here is arguing there's no such thing as "ISS Pro Evolution Soccer," but I don't think that was the point I was making, do you?

And as for the commentary, if you do in fact own the first PS, then at the end of a drawn game, Terry Butcher will indeed say "It's a pity there had to be a loser." So, unless you played ISS, I don't see how you can make claims like that.

And no, I've played ISS for 3 days now; the controls are clumsy, the gameplay looks great, but the player control is awful. I don't suck - in fact, I just dispatched England 8-3 on normal mode, and I'm still in the learning process. Don't worry, though, I'll be on the tougher mode in a week or so.

And BTW, "legend," in a game where you can't control where your guy tackles, it should be assumed that tackles from the front are generally less harmful and hits the ball b/4 hitting the player - I know it was a crap rule in France 98, but they did have a point about tackles from behind. I think EA's FIFA nailed the slide tackling pretty well - for example, they have 3 forms of tackles: they have the regular juke for the ball where you're well-balanced and don't lose sight of the player; they have the regular slide tackle where you hardly ever get called for, and then they have the foul tackle where you get called for 50% of the time - but in ISS, you get the regular tackle and then the foul tackle where you almost always get called - but in real footy, if you actually play or watch it, you'd know that not many slide tackles are actually called because most players aren't dumbasses (let alone the refs).

And as for the one guy forming an arguement by claiming "this guy's pathetic," I can also do that, but I don't want the moderator censoring my message. Perhaps next time, you can actually say something that isn't trash.

also, I wasn't saying that ISS was crap and FIFA wasn't - I'm saying they both have strengths and weaknesses - because the ISS Pro Evolution that I have still has a serious amount of flaws in it. Yeah, FIFA does too, so don't whine about it.

And yes to the last guy - I hope my 2000 copy of ISS Pro Evolution gets a sequel because I see really promising things happening with this game that FIFA will probably never learn.

Originally posted by Voltaire
I've been playing FIFA since FIFA '97, and just recently have I purchased my first Konami soccer title: ISS Pro Evolution Soccer.

For one thing, ISS does resemble the "most beautiful game" much more than FIFA, but the controls are absolutely horrendous. Sometimes, you have to hit the pass button 3 or 4 times before your guy actually passes...also, if you're making a lightning run down the screen and if computer is sprinting down the opposite direction, it'll be too late to pass (and at times, the little RADAR is useless because of the superhuman speed that sometimes possesses the ISS players) - and in real football, touching the ball and passing it off is usually just as instant as it is in FIFA - and this is where I give FIFA the big advantage in terms of realness (where you can actually pass the ball at the last sec, and keep one-touching it without having to predict how close computer will be by your 3rd touch).

ISS is a great game, but here are some more weaknesses - player control - whereas FIFA has minimized computer interference in your players, ISS seems to have the devil possessing your team - in most cases where you thru ball, your player will chase it to the ends of the earth even if you know he won't get it - you can even put the controller down and your player will still chase it. Also, in throw-ins, spotkicks, cornerkicks, goalkicks, or whenever the goalie gets the ball, you have absolutely no say in defense: sometimes, it's nice to put some pressure on the goalie so he doesn't just pass it short to waste time.

Also, if you're just making a regular pass on ISS, your player 90% of the time will just sit there and let the ball roll to him even though you see the opponent making a run for it. I think footy coaches call that laziness.

And what's the deal with the tackles? If you're simply putting your foot out to tackle, why does your player 95% always lose his footing and trip over an imaginary crack in the earth? For instance, you can make a go for a ball, or lose a ball, and after that moment, that player will be dazed for like 5 secs just wondering why he couldn't hold the ball. Does that happen in real football? Not likely.

And for God's sake, I've gotten so many redcards from a slide tackle from the FRONT! Why is the ref so generous in rewarding cards? Slide tackling is one of the most used devices in football, why has Konami turned the referee strictness on 100%?

And let's not talk about ISS commentary - even in a drawn out game, the commentator will conclude that "it's a pity there had to be a loser." FIFA easily wins in this department.

So yes, ISS LOOKS much more like the real game, but it does so at the cost of enjoyment. Whereas FIFA is fastfaced, at least the players have control over their players - and I think a video game is more about player control then resembling reality - if you want to see what real football looks like, go watch the real thing.

And then there are some minor flaws in ISS also worth mentioning: in FIFA, after you save a feature, the console will automatically load all of your settings once you start the game - on ISS you have to constantly load and load and load. And you can't even give your players a haircut (I'm kinda pissed that Jancker has hair). And how come at halftime, you can't make any changes? You have to wait during gametime to make subs, formation changes, etc.

But top marks on ISS making the AI a difficult opponent to beat. All in all, I enjoy ISS much better than FIFA, but I'm not going to make idiotic comments like "ISS is what soccer looks like, what game is FIFA playing?" You know, the only difference between those 2 games is player control and tougher AI's. Who cares if you can kill France 17-0 on World Class? What matters is player control, and ISS doesn't have much of that.

Apart from IS pro evolution Soccer not existing, your evaluation is full of other critical errors. Superhuman speed? Get over it buddy, maybe the guy is closer and you're frustrated that Beckham can't outrun Jarni, who incidently can run 100 meters in 11 seconds. So play it, and see, it's real.

Hit the pass button when in controll of the ball man, don't hit it when the player is sprinting and the ball is 4 feet infront of him, learn some touch, it comes with practice.

Topuch passing is real and intricate, you'll learn how to do it soon enough, gove it some time, and forget the horrendous FIFA physics while playing, this is REAL.

realness (where you can actually pass the ball at the last sec,

You can do this exceptionally well in all ISS titles.

Also, if you're just making a regular pass on ISS, your player 90% of the time will just sit there and let the ball roll to him even though you see the opponent making a run for it. I think footy coaches call that laziness.

move towards the ball man.

And what's the deal with the tackles? If you're simply putting your foot out to tackle, why does your player 95% always lose his footing and trip over an imaginary crack in the earth?

It's the best tackling system in any game, play it a little and you'll see. The tackles need to be times, and dispossesing a player is just as it is in real life. I'll take a wild guess and say that you've never watched 90 minutes of football in your life.

Infact I'll bet that you're a FIFA fan, rather than a football fan. Sad, play it a bit, and if you know what football is, you'll know that this is the real deal, and t he most fun and addictive game ever made.

Voltaire,

Why do you keep calling him 'legend'? He's only got Legend under his name becuase of his high post count.

And you've only been playing for 3 days??? Do you not realise it took many of us months to master our first KCET football game, let alone weeks for people who get the new versions after mastering the previous copy?

I think your impressions are too hasty, and you seem mighty impatient.

And if you're complaining about getting a free kick/red card whatever when you slide tackle from the front, I suggest you play REAL football and try that in a game. I can tell you you won't be in the game for long, even if the ref is a 'softy'.

Originally posted by Voltaire
The so-called "legend" here is arguing there's no such thing as "ISS Pro Evolution Soccer," but I don't think that was the point I was making, do you?

That's why it was a post scriptum...maybe you don't know what that is...

Originally posted by Voltaire
[B]- but in real footy, if you actually play or watch it, you'd know that not many slide tackles are actually called because most players aren't dumbasses (let alone the refs).

Maybe it's because they mastered sliding tackles after heavy trainings, and you think after 3 days you can make perfect tackles, yeah it's like that in fifa...but fif ain't realistic

Originally posted by Voltaire
[B]And as for the one guy forming an arguement by claiming "this guy's pathetic," I can also do that, but I don't want the moderator censoring my message. Perhaps next time, you can actually say something that isn't trash.

I have to say that his message was shocking...lol...

Originally posted by Voltaire
[B]And yes to the last guy - I hope my 2000 copy of ISS Pro Evolution gets a sequel because I see really promising things happening with this game that FIFA will probably never learn.

SO WHAT GAME DO YOU PLAYED EXACTLY ???

There are too many people to respond to so I'll just make a response, and I'll just assume you know which one belongs to you...

But first off, a general message to most of you - I really feel that you've guys have become so infatuated with this game that you simply refuse to hear about bugs and problems with the game...and who was that? ZePenguin? If even bothered to read my first post, you would know that Pro Evolution was my soccer game of choice but that does not mean this game is infallible...most of you seem to have the menstrual urge to lash out at anyone speak badly about your precious computer game...well, maybe you guys just need to fall in love or something, because your motherly nature protecting this game is embarrassing.

Ok, the Superhuman speed...there are times when a slow player will run faster than he normally does, and there are times when a fast player runs faster than he also normally does...for instance, if you use the through ball, the defender picks up an incredible amount of speed just to intercept...even in certain pass situations where Oliver Bierhoff (not exactly a track star) will run 100mph intercepting a ball, when he'll never ever run that fast going for pass from a teammate - that's what I'm calling superhuman speed, but somehow you seems to think that Pro Evolution is free from bugs...

And yes, there are times when your player can move in closer to receive a pass, but there are SO MANY times when your player is simply stuck in a hole, and won't step even a centimeter to get the ball...

Also with tackles - I've played soccer for 9 years, and have been playing it casually for the rest of my life - and yes, I watch Bundesliga - so don't tell me how tackles work:

For one thing, if I lose the ball to someone, I'm not gonna trip over an imaginary hole in the ground, and let that guy get away without a fight looking stupid for 5 seconds just holding my nuts...but according to you guys, this is REAL "football." Yeah, how real is it that once you take the ball away, the depossessed player will just sit there looking all happy (perfectly content to let you run away with the ball without going for it a 2nd try).

And for slide tackles - that isn't exactly an art. Do you know how big that ball is compared to your foot? When you're sliding for the ball, all you have to do slide on your leg, stick your foot out, and the ball will come right to you - shoot, I was doing slide tackles since I was a 5 year old - how hard is that?

And I don't agree that this is real football - it's not - because as I've just pointed out, there is no mystical force in real life that trips a player after he's attempted to take the ball - that just doesn't happen in real life. But hey, as I've also said, this looks much more realistic than FIFA, but I'm not going to go out of my way to say that Konami is God, and that this game is a perfect rendition of the "most beautiful game."

For goodness sake

ISSPE2 DOES NOT HAVE BUGS

Its just your lack of playing time. You have only had the game for bloody 3 days, and it takes most people at least 3 MONTHS to master the controls and the games completely.

I have met allot of fifa fans that are just like you when the first bought the game, but months later you come to realise that this is the closest to real life footy you are gonna get.

One thing that you don't understand is that this game comes with a learning curve and it has allot of depth, meaning that only time will reveal the advantages of this game. I bet you have not even won on EASY mode.

When I first bought ISSPE I honestly thought it wasn't that good at all but almost ONE YEAR later I have completly mastered the game and I have no problems regarding player control or making a bad tackle without GETTING THE BALL FIRST.

Your account of ISSPE is useless, you have only had the game for three days, you probably come from a fifa background and you are confused because you never thought a football game could come with a learning curve.

PLAY ISS FOR MORE THAN A MONTH AND SEE IF YOU ARE SAYING THE SAME THING.

Ok, the Superhuman speed...there are times when a slow player will run faster than he normally does, and there are times when a fast player runs faster than he also normally does...for instance, if you use the through ball, the defender picks up an incredible amount of speed just to intercept...even in certain pass situations where Oliver Bierhoff (not exactly a track star) will run 100mph intercepting a ball, when he'll never ever run that fast going for pass from a teammate - that's what I'm calling superhuman speed, but somehow you seems to think that Pro Evolution is free from bugs...

This shows some lack of knowledge of the game itself.

If you go into the management menu you will see some "arrows", these arrows determine if a player is having a good day and his attributes will increase, including his speed attribute, or if he is having a bad day were his attribues decrease. There is one thing wrong with this, you cannot see the CPU arrows, so somethimes when you see a cpu player pick up some speed its down to his form or if he is in the "zone". Surely you understand that?

The slide tackle is the best you are gonna get in any game. Its simple if you get the ball first then you don't get booked, if you don't then good luck with the referee. As for people falling over in the game sometimes a player might stick out a leg, or push someone from behind and so on.

Again, you account is useless, because this game is not for people to give first impressions or a review after 3 days. The depth and the learning curve does not make this possible no matter who you are.

I advise you to stop posting you 3rd day impressions, and come back after a month or so.

Originally posted by Voltaire
But first off, a general message to most of you - I really feel that you've guys have become so infatuated with this game that you simply refuse to hear about bugs and problems with the game...and who was that? ZePenguin? If even bothered to read my first post, you would know that Pro Evolution was my soccer game of choice but that does not mean this game is infallible...most of you seem to have the menstrual urge to lash out at anyone speak badly about your precious computer game...well, maybe you guys just need to fall in love or something, because your motherly nature protecting this game is embarrassing.


I don' thave anything against someone who tells the problems of a game, but most of the problems that you describe are n00bies problems..."This game has bugs because i can't make a pass or i can't make a proper tackle, it's not fait buhuuhuuuhhu". Maybe you think you can evaluate a game after having played it 3 days? Apparently you know everything and we don't...you are always right and we are always wrong...of course...

Therefore, mister "iknoweverythingandyouareallignorants", i won't answer to noobies whinings anymore.

Ok guys, I can see your point, but Voltaire has 1 or 2 points. These, in my opinion, are the only problems with ISSPE2 (whcih I play right now).

1st
Through Passes- Your players sometimes get LOCKED into a line they run, and they do not give you enough control. The worst is when you run towards the goal and there is a beautiful through pass, but just outside the players lane of running, and instead of turning a bit and tapping into the goal, he keeps on running the wrongway. Lets get real, in real soccer they don't run in a straight line. I do see that through passes would be too powerful otherwise, but I never believed in the "make AI cheap to make it harder" method...

2nd
Hitting pass button on Defense (conservative tackle/steal) is too good. In real footie a player can't simply run into another player and steal the ball 100% of the time. It is too easy, and I think that the player with the ball ould keep the ball about 30% of the itme or so. That needs to be made less powerful.

Other than that, ISSPE2 is God's Gift to the Football Fan.

Voltaire, listen.

The first couple of weeks that I played ISS, i though the game was overated too. But now, almost one year later, after hundreds of games, and still playing the game daily, i realized how amazing this game is. Except for the goalie A.I, the game is flawless. You shouldnt critisize the game after three days.

I find it amazing that i have been playing this game every day for almost a year, and i still love it, im still not bored. ISS is amazing.

Ok, once again, I'm not using names, so just look for my responses to you...

1. I'm not a noobie if your definition of a "noobie" is I suck, because I don't suck; as I've said, I had this game for 4 days now, and I'm smacking computer on NORMAL mode (not easy) - here are my memorable games on NORMAL so far:

8 - 3 victory with Germany over England
5 - 1 victory over Italy this morning with Germany
and then I went ahead and won the Asian cup with Japan - the final was tremendous: the first half Australia was winning 4-0, and I almost gave up, but kept in the game and came back and won 5-4 thanks to 2 headers from my Brazilian import, and 2 wicked long shots from some jap on my team: then, the Golden Goal at the end was the final icing on the cake, and I've added the Asian trophy alongside my European one...

2. A first impression IS a first impression...if 3 days isn't enough for a first impression, I question just what a first impression is...

3. Whoever that baby was whining obviously didn't read my post...I clearly stated that I've been playing FIFA since FIFA 97, and that Pro Evolution was my first title...oh, and I ALREADY TOLD YOU 1 MILLION TIMES this is my favourite game and that of all soccer titles available, it's the closest thing to soccer...but I'm not being stupid (*cough cough like you*) and saying that this game is what soccer is all about because as I've noted, there are a million problems with the game that can still be fixed, and if you don't see that, you probably haven't ever watched or played a real soccer game in your life.

4. Thanks for the intelligent comment (there's only one of you so you know who you are), but there were a few more quips about the game that I had, but you nailed some of them quite well.

Originally posted by Voltaire
1. I'm not a noobie if your definition of a "noobie" is I suck, because I don't suck

As for definition of NEWbie, is someone is NEW to a game...

And good for you, i don't care.

eh what game have u played?

Iss pro evolution 1/2 for ps1 ? (if u r talking about iss pro evolution for ps1 then we r talking bout a 2-3 years old game or something ;) )

or the new pes for ps2?


I agree pes still have problems, and is far from perfect but to tell u the truth i have never enjoyed a videogame as when playing Pes :)


like i said before ave not read the whole thread.
But i saw u mentioned about the fact that u r being annoyed when passing a teamate, he just stands there and waits to recive the ball while the enemy steals the ball.

Onthis point (if u r playing PES on ps2) I couldnt disagree more, cuse i think its perfectly done.
Cuse as fast as u made a pass u can actually run towards the ball, and get to controll the reciver.
And if your back is clean u can always wait for the ball
Its perfect!!

note that double click on the pass buttom will make a instant pass wich will means that u cant move wich is verey good cuse it makes fast play in one touch fashion tricky but still verey possible.

try to double click on the x buttom just when u r bout to recive the ball ;)

Yeah Voltaire..what version of the game are you talking about again?

Well it's not pro evolution soccer, because he said he was playing at normal level, since there is no normal level in pes...

BTW Voltaire where is that sentence in your sig quoted from? i already saw this one somewhere a while ago ?

He's not playing PES - he's playing one of the PS1 titles. I think he said as much, but you can tell from the problems he's describing. Also, he's in America, and only hardcore ISS gamers have got PES over there.

Those of us who have PES should go back and try a couple of games of ISS Pro Evolution, the first one (which I think is the one Voltaire's playing). Believe it or not, there are a few problems in it. It's like when someone is losing weight, you don't notice, then you see a picture of them a year ago and you realize they were quite fat. PES has solved these problems (almost all of them), but those older games can frustrate you a lot more.

And I think the sig quote is from Gary Lineker.

Once again, here's a response to most of you, so you'll just have to look for my reply to you...

1. Yes, I'm still on the PS1 (since my computer is prehistoric, and can't handle good looking soccer anymore), and I have ISS Pro Evolution (year 2000); I know it's an old copy since a lot of the uniforms look pre-Euro 2000 (for instance, Germany still plays in the same kit as they did in 1998 World Cup).

2. There's no way for me to get the latest versions because I was lucky enough to have found a used copy of Pro Evolution having searched 5 shopping malls, 2 Best Buys, and one local gamestore - since I don't use a credit card, I have to check for these things at the store.

3. I'm not sure if this is EXACTLY the quote as it was once said, but I BELIEVE it was an English soccer star who said it back in the day when Germany was dominant. Is that what you're asking? Or are you asking me if this was the same quote I had up here 2 years ago?

Voltaire, you haven't even played the latest 2 games, and you muster an attack on this game, based on something from 1999.

Get the new version, then come back and complain.

I'm kicking myself for even responding to this post. :mad: :rolleyes: I should have known better.

theCro,

Well, 2 years ago, ISS was the rage, so I'm giving my evaluation based on what I've played and the terrific rumours I've heard about this game. And since I am evaluating ISS Pro Evolution (and this being an ISS forum), I think I'm entitled to my opinion - and my assessment so far has been spot on.

So, you think Croatia will make it in 2006? =)

now that we know we are arguing over different things...
Let's just be content that the iss series is closer to real soccer than it is to fifa... except for the whole video game fantasy world thing. Also let's find the humour that iss pe with it's ****whole graphics is still undoubtebly better than fifa2002.

You're right - Pro Evolution (made more than a year ago) is light years ahead of FIFA 2002 (in most departments anways).

VOLTAIRE,


Are you under the impression that Croatia didn't qualify for this World Cup? You dumbass, do you watch soccer? Do you read anything? We qualified as first, I seem to remember a certain team conceding more goals in one half than Croatia conceded all qualifiers? Who might that be? Maybe it's those mighty Germans who took the early plane out of France when Croatia sent them packing. :)

You're right, theCro, sorry...I keep getting Euro 2000 confused with WC (I don't keep track of Croatia)...

Anyways, I don't understand where your hostility comes from - first off, you're the one who started the Germany-Croatia arguement in the other thread, and I simply argued my position - but then you have to resort to insults? You and Sucker (oops, I really meant Suker) would make a fine striking couple.

since I already started posting in this thread, i might as well go all the way.

Voltaire, i know you are entitled to your opinions and such, frankly whatever you say about any of the games, doesn't really phase me cos I know what I play and it is the best game for me. Now, that out of the way, why in the world are you comparing a game that came out years ago to one that came out a month ago? I just don't get it. :confused: It just doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

You see, ISS titles are hard to get where I live, and as I've stated before, I found this ISS title (Pro Evolution) at a used gamestore - so, you can only guess that I thought this was ISS' latest game. I was wrong to think that, but then how can you single me out when everyone else here thought I was talking about the latest version when I clearly stated "ISS Pro Evolution?"

In any case, FIFA 2002 and ISS Pro Evolution are still comparable titles - since I've never played a Konami title in my life, the game was very new, and very different than EA's FIFA.

Originally posted by Voltaire
You see, ISS titles are hard to get where I live, and as I've stated before, I found this ISS title (Pro Evolution) at a used gamestore - so, you can only guess that I thought this was ISS' latest game. I was wrong to think that, but then how can you single me out when everyone else here thought I was talking about the latest version when I clearly stated "ISS Pro Evolution?"

In any case, FIFA 2002 and ISS Pro Evolution are still comparable titles - since I've never played a Konami title in my life, the game was very new, and very different than EA's FIFA.

Honest mistake on your part. The reason why everyone thought that you were talking about the latest greatest is because you said "...my first Konami soccer title: ISS Pro Evolution Soccer. " Well Pro Evolution Soccer (PES) is the latest greatest, International Superstar Soccer Pro Evolution (ISSPE) is the name of the one you have. Yes, Konami have issues with the names of their games. After people who have played the latest read some of your comments, we suspected something fishy...my first post was a question on what version you were playing, it was clear from your first post.

I don't like the idea of comparing someones 'latest greatest' game to anothers '2 generations ago' game. Albeit, ISSPE still beats fifa2k2 in some aspects, a better comparison would be PES and Fifa2k2.

Originally posted by the_man


Honest mistake on your part. The reason why everyone thought that you were talking about the latest greatest is because you said "...my first Konami soccer title: ISS Pro Evolution Soccer. " Well Pro Evolution Soccer (PES) is the latest greatest, International Superstar Soccer Pro Evolution (ISSPE) is the name of the one you have. Yes, Konami have issues with the names of their games. After people who have played the latest read some of your comments, we suspected something fishy...my first post was a question on what version you were playing, it was clear from your first post.

I don't like the idea of comparing someones 'latest greatest' game to anothers '2 generations ago' game. Albeit, ISSPE still beats fifa2k2 in some aspects, a better comparison would be PES and Fifa2k2.

youre wrong,coz ISSPE1 kicks fifa 2k2´s ass on every aspect(except commentary of course :rolleyes: -)

Originally posted by Tom Green


youre wrong,coz ISSPE1 kicks fifa 2k2´s ass on every aspect(except commentary of course :rolleyes: -)

I don't see how he's wrong. the_man said "Albeit, ISSPE still beats fifa2k2 in some aspects, a better comparison would be PES and Fifa2k2." By making an exception for commentary, you basically said the same thing he did. You really didn't mean "every aspect" did you?

Well, I did start calling it Pro Evolution Soccer at first, but then someone corrected me immediately. But, that's not important anymore.

Ok, I understand what you're saying, but I probably wouldn't have made the comparison between FIFA 2002 and Pro Evolution if I didn't think my copy was the latest one (as you pointed out, "honest mistake"): I could just compare it to FIFA 2001 (both made the same year), but I'd still think Pro Evolution was superior.

Anyways, I don't know what the fuss is all about: I'm starting to find the irrelevant Konami commentary entertaining...in one match where I took 33 shots on target, Terry Butcher makes an expert analysis: "Well, they're good, but they can do even better if they can get down the field faster."

Originally posted by the_man
since I already started posting in this thread, i might as well go all the way.

Voltaire, i know you are entitled to your opinions and such, frankly whatever you say about any of the games, doesn't really phase me cos I know what I play and it is the best game for me. Now, that out of the way, why in the world are you comparing a game that came out years ago to one that came out a month ago? I just don't get it. :confused: It just doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

The_man, it's very simple, but only if you know where the name "Voltaire" comes from.
It was a 17th-18th century-writer with a very sharp, ironical and sarcastic style. They thew him in the French jail "Bastille", because of his critism on cultural life in France.
Reading his posts, it looks like he even tries to simulate that style.
So for me it is crystal-clear; he's a troublemaker, only here to upset this community.
I'v seen these types on other forums as well; some people are just intrigants :(

Trouble-maker, Han?

I was here back in 1999, and I wasn't a troublemaker, and I still am not. Besides, "Voltaire" never admitted to being wrong, which I have already done. And have I not already stated it was a mistake for me believing that my used copy of Pro Evolution was the latest one?

Being in the US, the only other Konami soccer title I've seen was an MLS game, so when I saw "ISS Pro Evolution," I was thinking to myself "Man, is this the game everyone's been talking about?"
I checked the year (made in 2000), and I had second thoughts, but perhaps, maybe they stopped making soccer titles? That's what my thinking was.

If there's someone trying to cause trouble, it's you - you who is trying to get a lynch mob started against me because of my name.

By the way, did you enjoy "Candide?" Not a bad story, but the conclusion was awful.

I was here back in 1999, and I wasn't a troublemaker, and I still am not.
I was here too in 1999 but what's the relevancy? :confused:

Besides, "Voltaire" never admitted to being wrong, which I have already done. And have I not already stated it was a mistake for me believing that my used copy of Pro Evolution was the latest one?
In my opinion you did everything to hide what version you have, for instance by your matchreport where you talked about "and came back and won 5-4 thanks to 2 headers from my Brazilian import, and 2 wicked long shots from some jap on my team:"
If you told us WHAT Brazilian and WHAT Jap I am sure most of us instantly knew you was not talking about ISSPE2, so that's why you formulated yourself as you did.
That you admitted using ISSPE1, was because some intelligent guys drove you to do that.

By the way, did you enjoy "Candide?" Not a bad story, but the conclusion was awful.
No, I have a very general knowledge about old literature and only know Voltaire for his acts in general; never read his books.

I analyzed this book 2 years ago and it's ****ing boring...and the ending is even worse.
It's well written and has some interesting philosphical ideas, but that's it, the story is not good at all...but well it's not the point of the book to have a good story anyway :rolleyes:

OK well let me get back to the original point of this thread which is Strenghts/Weakness vs. Fifa. Ok here goes. I am playing Fifa 2002 and ISS Pro Evo 2 running an emulator both on my PC. I will start by saying that I play and enjoy both games so I am kind of neutral in this whole deabte. There are reasons that I play both games which I won't go into here. However, there are a few things that stand out in ISS over Fifa.

1. Teams do not all play the same way. teams will play similar to the way the real teams and players do in ISS. In Fifa 2002 every team does the same thing over and over.

2. In ISS if you lose you don't feel like you got cheated. I am playing ISS on easy because I suck on Normal LOL. Anyway, I was playing with Italy vs. USA. I tied 1-1 but on the goal they got I went for a challenge on the ball that I shouldn't have and missed and they scored. Felt like it was my fault not that the computer cheated.

3. Master League - In my opinion this is a cool feature although I am not ready for it yet because you can only play on normal and hard. Anway, it has different teams from Europe but no matter who you use you start in the 2nd division with crap players and get points for wins and ties etc. and you can buy better players.

4. Strategy plays a key role in ISS. It is more of a factor in this years Fifa but still more so in ISS. You can also do more. Move indiviual players. Double teams players from the other team etc.

Well these are my thoughts and like I said I do enjoy both games and Fifa is a bit better with some gameplay patches that people have released. Hopefully EA will release their own official patch and fix the AI.

Thank you.

Ezio

Originally posted by Voltaire
I'm not sure if this is EXACTLY the quote as it was once said, but I BELIEVE it was an English soccer star who said it back in the day when Germany was dominant.

it was Gary Lineker. and the quote is a bit different if i remember right....

Originally posted by tomnol


it was Gary Lineker. and the quote is a bit different if i remember right....

Anyway i saw that in a french humor book so it's not that :p and it was kinda different, something like :

"football is a sport where 22 dumbasses run after a ball in purpose to put it in a net and where the germans always win"

I think i saw that maybe 10 years ago...

Firstly, I am an ISS fan who can't stand FIFA. However, i don't treat any computer game like a god, and therefore have no problem criticising it.

ISS isn't perfect. That's why it gets 9/10 in most reviews. It's superb, but not perfect. There are problems - as someone pointed out, players in real life wouldn't stand around like sheep on the ball's path when they could go to meet it. No grashed, this isn't because we haven't played the game long enough and therefore gained your incredible expertise - it's uncontrollable. This isn't the only problem and, in my opinion, many of Voltaire's views are, to a degree, similar to mine.

Can I just remind you that ISS is my game of choice. Voltaire had to remind you of this several times, so I just want to make it clear.

And another thing. Who the hell are you lot to call someone a troublemaker for expressing his opinions? You talk of the 17/18th century Voltaire being a troublemaker. For complaining about the unfair French culture I believe. Well here's a revelation for some of you... this is the 21st century. In the last 300 years, there have been some major changes in civilization. Free speech, for example. Most people have moved on to the stage where they accept other people's opinions can be as correct as their own.

It seems you're the ones trying to simulate the 18th century. By 'locking up' a man who points out imperfections which you know, but refuse to accept, are there.

ps i play ISS not FIFA.. just in case you forgot

Originally posted by LTJ
Firstly, I am an ISS fan who can't stand FIFA. However, i don't treat any computer game like a god, and therefore have no problem criticising it.

ISS isn't perfect. That's why it gets 9/10 in most reviews. It's superb, but not perfect. There are problems - as someone pointed out, players in real life wouldn't stand around like sheep on the ball's path when they could go to meet it. No grashed, this isn't because we haven't played the game long enough and therefore gained your incredible expertise - it's uncontrollable. This isn't the only problem and, in my opinion, many of Voltaire's views are, to a degree, similar to mine.

Can I just remind you that ISS is my game of choice. Voltaire had to remind you of this several times, so I just want to make it clear.

And another thing. Who the hell are you lot to call someone a troublemaker for expressing his opinions? You talk of the 17/18th century Voltaire being a troublemaker. For complaining about the unfair French culture I believe. Well here's a revelation for some of you... this is the 21st century. In the last 300 years, there have been some major changes in civilization. Free speech, for example. Most people have moved on to the stage where they accept other people's opinions can be as correct as their own.

It seems you're the ones trying to simulate the 18th century. By 'locking up' a man who points out imperfections which you know, but refuse to accept, are there.

ps i play ISS not FIFA.. just in case you forgot

Well, I don't think your comments were geared towards me (or were they?). But my problem wasn't that he has problems with ISSPE. My problem was he was comparing it to FIFA 2002. The release dates for both are over a year apart. All I was saying is that a better comparison would be latest greatest to latest greatest (i.e. PES to FIFA2002). But then again, your comments weren't geared toward me. But I already ironed that out with Voltaire.

As usual, no names will be included so you'll have to look for my replies to you...

(too many things to reply to so I'm a bit overwhelmed and will only merely reply to only several of you)

Thank you, LTJ - I suppose some of the problems found in my ISS PE weren't exactly solved in the latest versions (as you pointed out) - I have admitted that my critiques were about an older version of the game which I thought was the latest version; thus, some of the people upset at first have toned down a bit - but I do appreciate your rational and unbiased opinion in the matter. (much appreciation as well for replying to my original post even if I was somewhat misguided with the titles)

HAN, if you even read my first few posts on here, you would know that I was corrected on the title; so it's primarily your fault for failing to see that - also, I don't see why you're trying to turn people against me - I seriously doubt anyone here thinks I was trying to obscure what copy of the game I had, because whenever the issue came up, I said as much as I knew (Playstation 1: "ISS Pro Evolution") - not only did I reveal the title so many times, but I also pointed out that many of the uniforms (such as the German uniform) was pre-Euro 2000 - unless Germany is still wearing their France 98 jerseys in the latest version, you don't have a prayer accusing me that "I tried to obscure the title." And when I said I won the Asian Cup with Japan thanks to my Brazilian import and a few local Japs, I thought you would've realized there has only been 1 Brazilian import to play on the japanese national team - Lopes is his real name, I believe. Besides, when I was talking about my triumphs in ISS PE, I didn't know I had to tell you what copy I had...

ZePenguin & Tomnol - I heard someone else say Gary Lineker in addition to Tomnol so I guess it's from him. I couldn't remember it word-for-word myself so I left out the quotations (I hope Gary doesn't sue me for it). Say, maybe I'll use Penguin's quote hehe

EZIO - thanks for replying to my original post! hehe! Having played FIFA 2002 for a few weeks, and playing my old copy of ISS Pro Evolution, I'm virtually of the same opinion. The part I like most about ISS is that goals aren't desensitized like they are in FIFA - as I read somewhere on here, I truly feel triumphant scoring on ISS, but in FIFA, it feels more like I'm trying to make my quota - however, I'm more of an ISS fan than a FIFA fan - I just wish I had a PS2, an emulator, and the latest version everyone's been playing.

the_man - No, LTJ was directing his comments towards people like Han - Han's trying to digup dirt on me because of my name.

Originally posted by LTJ

And another thing. Who the hell are you lot to call someone a troublemaker for expressing his opinions? You talk of the 17/18th century Voltaire being a troublemaker. For complaining about the unfair French culture I believe. Well here's a revelation for some of you... this is the 21st century. In the last 300 years, there have been some major changes in civilization. Free speech, for example. Most people have moved on to the stage where they accept other people's opinions can be as correct as their own.


You mix up these two Voltaires :)
I only called this inferior Forum-Voltaire a troublemaker.
I named the other to explain why he called himself Voltaire, just read it over and you will see :)
If this forum-Voltaire, according to you, has the right to give his opinion, why then shouting at me for my opinions?
You obviously don't agree with me, but I think he still tries to mistify things, for example he now says :
"I said as much as I knew (Playstation 1: "ISS Pro Evolution") - not only did I reveal the title so many times, [..]"
...but he doesn't say "ISS Pro Evolution 2" which was essential in the discussion!
Really LTJ, I write more things on the ISS/PES-forums and I can fairly say I am not a troublemaker myself, just can't stand if somebody tries to provoke a whole forum-community like he did.
Didn't he? Just count howmany posts this already is going on and howmany different people argued with him about statements, everybody can see they are not correct...
In short: I just don't like his provocations. :(

The man - no it wasn't aimed at you. On the issue of voltaire comparining ISS PE and FIFA 2002 I agree with you, but i don't think he did it intentionally, and many of the problems are ever present in ISS titles.

Han - No I wasn't mixing the two Voltaires. I was simply comparing the treatment they received. The original, 18th century Voltaire was attacked for expressing his opinions. 300 years later, in the days when you can insult the queen and get away with it, you're doing exactly the same to someone who's giving his opinion on a game which you refuse to accept is not perfect.

And where exactly did Voltaire try to cause trouble...?

And remember, this is an ISS vs FIFA forum. It's hardly a provocative post, considering it is exactly what the forum title asks for

Originally posted by LTJ
Firstly, I am an ISS fan who can't stand FIFA. However, i don't treat any computer game like a god, and therefore have no problem criticising it.

ISS isn't perfect. That's why it gets 9/10 in most reviews. It's superb, but not perfect. There are problems - as someone pointed out, players in real life wouldn't stand around like sheep on the ball's path when they could go to meet it. No grashed, this isn't because we haven't played the game long enough and therefore gained your incredible expertise - it's uncontrollable. This isn't the only problem and, in my opinion, many of Voltaire's views are, to a degree, similar to mine.

Can I just remind you that ISS is my game of choice. Voltaire had to remind you of this several times, so I just want to make it clear.

And another thing. Who the hell are you lot to call someone a troublemaker for expressing his opinions? You talk of the 17/18th century Voltaire being a troublemaker. For complaining about the unfair French culture I believe. Well here's a revelation for some of you... this is the 21st century. In the last 300 years, there have been some major changes in civilization. Free speech, for example. Most people have moved on to the stage where they accept other people's opinions can be as correct as their own.

It seems you're the ones trying to simulate the 18th century. By 'locking up' a man who points out imperfections which you know, but refuse to accept, are there.

ps i play ISS not FIFA.. just in case you forgot

Does that mean I am the only one in this community who dosen't have a problem with response times, headers and other player control issues? well maybe I am.

I must admitt at first I found these "probelms" in the game, but over 1 year later it hardly happens, I have learned how to bring a player towards a passing ball and I fond it very easy to header in any part of the field. Has anyone tried moving your player while the ball is in the air? well maybe not.

Maybe I was abit harsh in my posts, but yes these "problems" do obviously exist in the game, but its not a problem for me and some other people I hope, simply because they are ways to avoid it.

I would just like to know if I am the only one who doesen't have these "problems", if I am the only one who has found ways to avoid it. Is there anyonelse?

Voltaire they do exist, but they are ways to avoid it if you find them.

I know ISS isn't perfect, but I simply praise this game because I love football, I know its not "gods gift", but its good enough for me.

Voltaire they do exist, but they are ways to avoid it if you find them.

I realise that... but wouldn't it be better if they were removed?

Originally posted by LTJ
Voltaire they do exist, but they are ways to avoid it if you find them.

I realise that... but wouldn't it be better if they were removed?

Of course.....

UI have to agree with the evaluation of Voltaire's troublemaking posts. The man knows nothing about PES(his statement about playing "ISS Pro Evolution Soccer" ??!!??) and nothing about football in general(repeatedly rubbing my face with his imaginary fact that Croatia didn't qualify for t he World Cup??!!??)

He is just a misinformed loudmouth, with an arrogant signature.

I've read this thread from the start and have had dozens of comments for you, many were subsequently covered by others.

I too see a contrast in the both games (FIFA for years, ISS & PES 6 weeks). Almost all the good points in FIFA relate to the commentary (obviously, in fact, I switched the PES one off so my enjoyment is not hindered by . . . don't start me off) and to the stats, replays and editability.

All of the good points in PES, with the exception of highlights, and most of all, the thing that makes you REALLY addicted, the Master League, relate to gameplay.

As a FIFA fan, I came to ISS PE2 and firstly had a new bunch of controls to learn. Then came the persistant red cards, then the terrible shooting, and the players always over-running. Then the inability to pass a player (no bunch of preset trick moves to fall back on), and then always losing headers.

Whilst I've read your posts with interest and winced often at the replies of others, I too have my tuppence worth.

Remember, I've been playing ISS/PES around a month longer than yourself so I'm only a little farther down the road.

I believe that you are making the same mistake (a logical one) as I did when I looked at the game with my FIFA head on. I kept expecting the game to function like FIFA but it's a completely different mind-set

Someone phrased it to me, on one of these forums, earlier today like this;

""The main thing is: DON'T "think computer" (like, "how do I know I can get in on goal here?", "what's the computer going to do?") - THINK FOOTBALL. Think ahead of the game, into a real football situation (as Glenn would call it) and trust the game to keep up with you""

Top advice by the way, Pere Ubu!

Secondly, I think that the easy tackling IS realistic. I also think it improves the game because you have to keep the ball away from
the other guy.

Next thing, and here's my best advice. Apart from the slide tackle which IS a tackle, the others are called "press" not tackle. This is not semantics, it's part of the different mind-set bit. Here's an example; in FIFA if you want volley pass the ball, you have a volley button (function), if you want to do a stand up tackle, you have a stand up tackle button. In PES (and ISS PE2, dunno about others) the player does the appropriate move from his position in relation to the ball.

For example in training. If you keep banging over corners and (with no defenders) you can keep whacking them in (or into Row Z or whatever) notice how the player takes the strike differently each time because the ball comes to him differently each time. This may explain the red cards too. Each tackle is different and from behind is punished. After endeavours to clean up my act (after much frustration, at the ref oddly enough) I am now the cleanest player in the league.

You mentioned passing moves not being executed, having to repeat the button. FIFA stores moves in the buffer and by the time the earlier moves have been executed, the later moves may no longer apply. PES doesn't do this except, as far as I have discovered so far, in two cases. Firstly, when you are in the middle
of a pass but are overcoming an interception attempt say, the pass will be made when you recover your balance/reach the ball.

The other time is when your "sprint" hasn't finished. Another FIFA head one here. I would over-press sprint and go into another four (?) pace burst. Until the burst is over, the pass or shot isn't made. What I've noticed, haven't worked out the exact time (anyone?) is that often the pass is "lost" in the burst, you press again, lost again, finally you bum some effort with your last stored pass move. My guess is that if you press sprint, then pass, but do another, accidental sprint, the second one would over-ride the pass as the two sprints have concatonated and the process hasn't actually stopped.

The R2 button - move player when the ball is in the air - useful for headers, but also for fast dribble. Fast dribble, as opposed to sprint, doesn't seem to join the dribble moves into one long chain.

Finally PES bad points. Running in straight lines. When I let go, he doesn't stop, he's on auto-pilot. Extremely annoying.

Equally annoying, "5 second" pause, not five seconds but a valid point nonetheless. I don't know about your version, but in PES, if
you are with the "ball/oppenent zone" any attempt to press, any trip, knock or whatever renders you a spectator for a moment. FIFA brought the abilty to win the ball straight back to version 2000 or 2001.

Running in straight lines is a pain, but the inability to fight for the ball is the game's only void.

theCro - Grow up, the only reason you agree with Han is because I defended myself when you made that remark about Germany losing Croatia. And geez, I make a mistake about Croatia (confusing it with the Euro 2000 qualification), and I haven't been rubbing it in - in fact, I've already apologized and said I was wrong - unfortunately, only one of us matured in the last few days.

Also, Cro, your accusation that I know nothing of football in general is absurd - you simply stated that Croatia beat Germany in World Cup 98, and then I defended my reason why Germany lost naming players and their positions relative to the incident, and the only thing you do is throw out "there were 13 camera angles that showed it." Why make remarks about me about lacking general soccer knowledge when I went out of my way to explain my position regarding Germany's defeat. All you did in response to that was call me "stupid."

And HAN, you must be an adolescent because you keep changing your opinion, rewriting history (saying I was trying to obscure the facts about my game - geez, you must've felt pretty low on the IQ branch when I had to explain there was only one point in Japan's history that a Brazilian played on their national team), and then using your obsolete techniques to form a firing squad against me - not to mention your constant hurling of insults at me (e.g. "inferior forum-poster voltaire") when I've seen your other posts, and you've shown that you're just a little whiner who has been everything you've accused me (a trouble-maker, and definitely inferior)...oh, and about that Voltaire thing - if you were just calling me inferior, then why did you explain the history of "Voltaire" who caused trouble in 18th Century Europe, and how I was somehow trying to emulate his style? Man, you're truly pathetic, and I'm not the only one who sees right through your weasely exterior...(by the way, this is a FIFA vs. ISS forum, not a forum for insults - so consider my compliments to you a refund on your delinquent behavior)

To ALL ELSE - thank you for your tips and hints about ISS Pro Evolution - I will certainly look into your ideas, and I appreciate your professional feedback...sorry, I couldn't name names...

...do explain the arrogance of a quote regarding the German national team - I'd love to know why a British commentator would be boasting about the German National Team, and how this quote makes me arrogant...

Han, another thing - after reading your post again, I feel even more nauseous this time around...

How exactly did I cause trouble?

And why would I call the game "Pro Evolution 2" if I have "ISS Pro Evolution?" I don't think you quite get it yet, but the game I have is called this exactly: "ISS Pro Evolution." I don't see why you're looking for hidden agendas in what I'm typing, and what I'm all about: you remind me of my girlfriend who looks at things, and overanalyzes things...I'm sorry, but you're just not my type...

And the reason people are having so many comments and misunderstandings has already been explained...I got the ISS Pro Evolution from a used gamestore, and I thought this was the latest title...obviously, you forgot how to read, because this subject was already covered, and you're the only one who's missed the train ride to Good Reasoning...

And all I was doing was pointing out weaknesses and strengths in ISS (MY COPY of ISS)...I didn't go around the room analyzing people's names, and start crying out that he's probably gonna be causing trouble...it's strange how I stick to this forum's subject, and you go off on a tangeant only to insult me and accuse me, and not even mention anything about the subject...so you tell me, kid, who's the trouble-maker? (sheesh, you'd think that after 2 years, you'd have more sense by now)

Voltaire, your comment about Croatia's qualifying campaign shows both your poor knowledge of football, and your tendancy to converse on a subject, about which you know nothing.


It says a lot, I don't think anyone can take you seriously anymore.

I bought my brother a copy of PE2 about 3 weeks ago, now I go down every weekend and the last two weeks I have panned him 4-0, 3-0, etc this week I came to play him and said "are you ready for a panning?" he said "dont bet on it", as soon as I started playing I could tell hed changed from a FIFA player playing ISS to an ISS player. His whole approach to the game was different instead of trying to sprint through my defence he was keeping the looking for space, he had started playing proper football..

Now I still beat him (Holland 2-0 Argentina) but he was no longer getting 3 red cards, and the goals I scored were absolute beauties (one scissor kick from kluivert, and a "chipped "1-2 through his defence and dummy round the goalkeeper with Bergkamp). What was showing was my more practice of shooting (He forced a save from a shot from just over the halfway line with Veron though!!!)

Originally posted by Voltaire
Han, another thing - after reading your post again, I feel even more nauseous this time around...

How exactly did I cause trouble?

And why would I call the game "Pro Evolution 2" if I have "ISS Pro Evolution?" I don't think you quite get it yet, but the game I have is called this exactly: "ISS Pro Evolution." I don't see why you're looking for hidden agendas in what I'm typing, and what I'm all about: you remind me of my girlfriend who looks at things, and overanalyzes things...I'm sorry, but you're just not my type...



Well, that says it all! If your own girlfriend got the same problem it's time to look in the mirror, so to speak, as more people than me has problems with you....
For me reason enough to consider this discussion as closed.

Originally posted by cymonguk
I bought my brother a copy of PE2 about 3 weeks ago, now I go down every weekend and the last two weeks I have panned him 4-0, 3-0, etc this week I came to play him and said "are you ready for a panning?" he said "dont bet on it", as soon as I started playing I could tell hed changed from a FIFA player playing ISS to an ISS player. His whole approach to the game was different instead of trying to sprint through my defence he was keeping the looking for space, he had started playing proper football..

Now I still beat him (Holland 2-0 Argentina) but he was no longer getting 3 red cards, and the goals I scored were absolute beauties (one scissor kick from kluivert, and a "chipped "1-2 through his defence and dummy round the goalkeeper with Bergkamp). What was showing was my more practice of shooting (He forced a save from a shot from just over the halfway line with Veron though!!!)

Yes, I know what you mean! It is so much fun to play a human opponent! I did it also, but my friend has no playstation and he only plays it here at my home :(
I try to persuade him to but PS2 and PES and he probably does that, but even with so few practice as he has, you can see howmuch it differs from a CPU-opponent. :)
Sometimes we play together against a cpu-player but that's more difficult as when you play alone vs the computer, because you can't plan your attacks that well. Your teammate has other plans :)
But it is fun! :)

But when I say my girlfriend "overanalyzes things," I'm not saying she PMS's on a FIFA forum if I discuss the strengths and weaknesses with ISS...I'm saying if I beat her in a tennis game, she'll wonder if I actually have feelings for her...are you implying that I show a lack of feelings for you?

Ah, it's ok, man...there are a million fish in the sea...

Originally posted by Voltaire
...do explain the arrogance of a quote regarding the German national team - I'd love to know why a British commentator would be boasting about the German National Team, and how this quote makes me arrogant...

because you neither make it clear that an english player said this nor do you use the exact citation and circumstances. this renders this quote misleading and arrogant.

i believe lineker said this after the 1990 WC semifinal's penalty shootout... it was supposed to be an IRONIC remark, somehow like "why do we actually bother and run up and down the field when in the end the germans win it anyway".. he was of course relating to certain WC games in that era and earlier when germany had incredible comebacks, by talent or sheer luck (Sevilla 1982 anyone?)

in your case it comes across as if germany was, or is still vastly superior and always wins any game which is far from the case, as much as i would like it to be being german myself.

Tonmol,

Don't tell me you're jumping on the bandwagon with theCro and Han there - do you think I really need justification for my quotes? If I'm not mistaken, I'm not the only one who has seemingly "arrogant" quotes - so many people on this forum have quotes boasting about their favourite players, club, or aspirations for their national teams, so why is it bad if I have a quote promoting Germany? But you don't see me making jokes about how the Dutch failed to qualify for 2002, or how the magic of Shevchenko wasn 't enough for Ukraine to qualify either, do you? You see, I don't take cheapshots at other teams as theCro has done, nor am I the only one on this board promoting my favourite team...so why single me out?

Originally posted by Voltaire


EZIO - thanks for replying to my original post! hehe! Having played FIFA 2002 for a few weeks, and playing my old copy of ISS Pro Evolution, I'm virtually of the same opinion. The part I like most about ISS is that goals aren't desensitized like they are in FIFA - as I read somewhere on here, I truly feel triumphant scoring on ISS, but in FIFA, it feels more like I'm trying to make my quota - however, I'm more of an ISS fan than a FIFA fan - I just wish I had a PS2, an emulator, and the latest version everyone's been playing.



No problem and I agree with you. It seems like with the ISS games you have to think like real football. Also, not sure if anyone mentioned it or not but the version you have may also be a KCEO game versus a KCET. Konami has different division making ISS games and the KCET ones are the bettter ones from what I have heard. There is no emulator for the PS2 but you can get an emulator for PS one and play ISS Pro Evolution 2 which is what I am playing.

because you neither make it clear that an english player said this nor do you use the exact citation and circumstances. this renders this quote misleading and arrogant. Voltaire, you really should feel ashamed of yourself for misleading these poor people :o

Misleading... because he gives no indication of the origin of the quote, he in no way misleads anybody

Arrogant... i don't think you understand what arrogance is

Originally posted by Voltaire
Tonmol,

Don't tell me you're jumping on the bandwagon with theCro and Han there - do you think I really need justification for my quotes? If I'm not mistaken, I'm not the only one who has seemingly "arrogant" quotes - so many people on this forum have quotes boasting about their favourite players, club, or aspirations for their national teams, so why is it bad if I have a quote promoting Germany? But you don't see me making jokes about how the Dutch failed to qualify for 2002, or how the magic of Shevchenko wasn 't enough for Ukraine to qualify either, do you? You see, I don't take cheapshots at other teams as theCro has done, nor am I the only one on this board promoting my favourite team...so why single me out?

Mein guter Freund,

you are of course entitled to your quote. i don't care what you quote or why or if you quote right or not. all i was trying to say is how this quote, taken out of context can mislead people who are not familiar with the fact that it is actually a quote (of an english soccer player made in an ironic way) into thinking that you are an arrogant jerk, which maybe you are.

just replace "Germany" for a second with "Croatia" and consider how that would piss YOU off...

the proper way to assign quotes is to put them into quotation marks and name the one who came up with it (it's called giving credit)... that way it would not be misunderstood... but as i said before... you are of course entitled to do whatever you want... but then people are entitled to have whatever opinion they want of you...

tschüssi...

Originally posted by LTJ

Arrogant... i don't think you understand what arrogance is

arrogant is someone who doesn't read all the posts pertaining to a context but still feels the need to make stupid comments even though he doesn't know what he is talking about.

does that suffice for a definition?

Surprisingly, yes it does. You've just summed yourself (and a few others on here) up perfectly...

Anyway... the original subject of this post has been forgotten so we really oughta forget it. My own replies have been simply in defence of Voltaire, who I think has been unfairly criticised for expressing opinions which the forum title asks for.

So there's my last post

hallo Tonmol,

No, it wouldn't piss me off if someone used "Croatia" instead of "Germany" (using my quote) - because I've seen quotes here promoting Holland, and Holland is considered more of a bad-blood country for Germany - yet, I hardly ever find myself "pissed" at the quotes promoting teams I do not like.

Another thing, Tomnol, do you really think if I had quotes around my message, and the person quoting it, that people like theCro wouldn't take offense at that? I seriously doubt it - and I really don't think I have to give proper credit since this isn't a term paper.

LTJ, yeah, it's all my fault! Perhaps I should scrap my quote, and this thread altogether, for I have committed serious crimes against my Forum comrades. (hey, thanks for the support, but you're really assuming a tough task trying to enlighten these other people).

I'm kinda mystified to whats been happening in this thread so will make no comment:p

fifa2002 in no where near as bad as some members like to mouth off about, but after having played iss for the 1st time last weekend on my mate's ps2 I've really had to curtail the desire to spend the cash reserved for my fiance's x-mas gift on sony's box:D :D

My girlfriend's actually getting the PS2 for me for Christmas (actually AFTER Christmas since it'll be 50% off at some store here) because she says that 1) I'll spend more time at her place and 2) she could use the DVD feature offered by the PS2 (see, everyone's happy with the PS2)...

Anyways, if you're like me, and is broke, and only has a PS1, you can still play some old copies of ISS...(I got my first copy a few weeks ago, and it still manages to entertain more than FIFA 2002)...

Originally posted by Voltaire
...you can still play some old copies of ISS...(I got my first copy a few weeks ago, and it still manages to entertain more than FIFA 2002)...

Then, why are you over at the FIFA wishlist forum begging for sh** to get fixed for FIFA WC 2002? Let me save you the suspense, Voltaire, it's going to suck too. Just you wait and see. Save yourself the money and stick to ISS.:)

You caught me there, bergkamp! Anyways, I have a tremendously tough time finding these ISS titles - the only soccer titles I see are "FIFA." So I figure if FIFA stuck to an ISS formulae, I wouldn't have to buy 2 different titles (both about soccer) every year - believe me, I'm disappointed in my FIFA 2002 CD - that's $40 I could've saved for my Germany home jersey. =)

Originally posted by Voltaire
You caught me there, bergkamp! Anyways, I have a tremendously tough time finding these ISS titles - the only soccer titles I see are "FIFA." So I figure if FIFA stuck to an ISS formulae, I wouldn't have to buy 2 different titles (both about soccer) every year - believe me, I'm disappointed in my FIFA 2002 CD - that's $40 I could've saved for my Germany home jersey. =)

It took me a while to find a copy of ISS as well, but, boy, was it worth it!!

Ok back to the original point of this thread agian for a minute. Out of currosity and seeing how much of a hard time the Fifa RTWC webmaster was having trying to get the groups right in Fifa so that all the games played out the way they should i did a little test in Fifa Pro Evo 2. I created the groups with the teams in the order they are in for the real WC which Fifa won't let you do I don't think because it makes them random.

Ex. Italy, Ecuador(used another team since they aren't there), Croatia, Mecico.

And gues what (drum roll please)

My first round games played out like they will in the WC. Game 1 Italy-replacement team, Italy-Croatia, Italy-Mexico. I was using Italy. I have not checked to see if the 2nd round games play out as they should but I would bet they do. That impressed me. I thought that was cool.

This thread is the winner of:

Most topics in one thread
Most posts in one thread (going to be)
Most views in one thread (going to be)
Thread that contains the least number of FIFA gamers

I thought when we figured out the issue that we were talking about the different games then it would stop....then I see something about writers, then about quotes, about national teams...:(

Originally posted by the_man
This thread is the winner of:

Most topics in one thread
Most posts in one thread (going to be)
Most views in one thread (going to be)
Thread that contains the least number of FIFA gamers

I thought when we figured out the issue that we were talking about the different games then it would stop....then I see something about writers, then about quotes, about national teams...:(

Screw it, the_man, most threads don't stick to the topic as soon as they get to two or three pages long. But I do agree with ya, this is one hell of a twisted up, branching off into nowhere, "what were we talking about?" type thread! :D

John from the UK,

I agree with your points, then I have some more which are irrelevant now. In any case, I do appreciate the soccer feeling of ISS vs. the pinball feeling of FIFA - also, something else that strikes me as odd is when I returned for a single half of FIFA soccer - for my Playstation 1 (no one can say I didn't warn them what version now), the graphics and the resolution of FIFA 2002 are choppy, and most of the time whenever there's movement, it seems as if my players are playing teleportation soccer...

In ISS, the colours are a bit more youthful looking, but the players are very clear-looking, and the movement is smooth - my version of ISS, might I remind the critics, is ISS Pro Evolution.


the_man,

Luckily for us all, I believe a few individuals that I won't name, have abandoned their crusade to lynch the "heratics." Thus, this should be the last page to a story that forgot its theme.

For all those who are giving crap to Voltaire, yo're all a bunch of nutters.

I bought the first FIFA AGES ago, and got ISS about a month ago because I read so much on it from this site.

Like most of you, I was really pissed off with a lot of what FIFA2002 had, but loved a lot of it as well. It IS much more fast paced/arcade than ISS. In fact, it is an arcade game, not a simulation.

For that reason, I love playing two player FIFA. It's mad frantic fun. But it's not really football (and before any idiot complains that I don't watch any football - I do). Its still damn fun.

And for whoever said that ISS has no bugs.... your mad. I have NEVER seen a game without bugs, and I know ISS has them. That was a stupid comment to make.

So whats my point? Well, I love ISS. Playing it as a single player game is absolutly brilliant. Having had it for only a month I'm still learning to play it properly, but I love it. It's also great multi-player - but I still love playing FIFA. I play both about the same amount. Then I try and fit some form of a life in there as well.

I can't believe theres a whole forum topic to which game is better. They are both completley different games. One is an arcade game, the other is a simulation. Both are good. Get over it.

Now I'm going to go home and play some football!! (and I'm not going to tell you WHAT game I'm gunna play...)

(oh yea, I couldn't be bothered reading after the first page of this thread....)

Skotj,

I couldn't agree more - each game has its high points - and I certainly agree on ISS' 1-player game advantage over FIFA - playing computer in FIFA is a monotonous affair where scoring goals seems more like making the grade; whereas in ISS, just holding the ball is exciting.

Some high points of FIFA that I mentioned are its button responses - although I may squash Brazil, England, Holland, etc, I still get frustrated at the lack of response time in my buttons - another feature I'm trying to turn off is computer's interference in which player I'm controlling (there are so many instances where I'm about to make a tackle or even intercept a ball, and computer warps me to a new player without my consent)...

Of course, I have only the ISS Pro Evolution made in 2000; consequently, I own all FIFA titles down to FIFA 97 - I played the FIFA's before that on Sega, which were still exciting on the old system - I would like to try the latest versions of ISS despite reports of some of these bugs not being fixed yet.

Thank you for your reply.

PES fans don't think they're bugs, therefore they don't need fixing, The controlls are EXTREMELY responsive, but you have to take into accound speed and dribble, if you press pass ehile running, it'll take a second to get to the ball, and play the pass. It's so real it HURTS !!

Some high points of FIFA that I mentioned are its button responses - although I may squash Brazil, England, Holland, etc, I still get frustrated at the lack of response time in my buttons - another feature I'm trying to turn off is computer's interference in which player I'm controlling (there are so many instances where I'm about to make a tackle or even intercept a ball, and computer warps me to a new player without my consent)...

Voltaire,

It sounds to me like you have computer set to automatically change players for you in defense. It's a horrible thing, and one which you should rectify by changing to manual player switching whilst in defense... it will stop the incidents that you are mentioning... (well, that I _think_ you are mentioning ;))

I can't quite remember how to do it on ISS PE1, I think its in the controller settings in the menu just before you start a game.. (the one that you use to access the formation settings.) If you go into controller settings, and hit [], it should change to manual settings.

As for control. I can agree with you there. ISS PE1 doesn't have the best control over players. However, ISS PE2 _does_. You can do all sorts of mazy runs with good dribblers in ISS PE2: the control is fantastic.

Needless to say, ISS PE1 still beats FIFA. :cool:

I can't quite remember how to do it on ISS PE1, I think its in the controller settings in the menu just before you start a game.. (the one that you use to access the formation settings.) If you go into controller settings, and hit [], it should change to manual settings.

As for control. I can agree with you there. ISS PE1 doesn't have the best control over players. However, ISS PE2 _does_. You can do all sorts of mazy runs with good dribblers in ISS PE2: the control is fantastic.
He took the words right out of my mouth...

FIFA RULZZZ

Fifa is better that iss

Thanks Mattah,

I'm still trying to find that feature...

I have the controls set where if I push R1, it'll switch players, but I still can't find the feature that stops computer from interfering with this...

Still an enjoyable game nevertheless.

Voltaire,

The computer only changes player for me when,

1. A cross is coming in from the computer, in which case it changes to the defender best placed to clear the ball.

2. I pass the ball. (duh! ;))

3. One of my AI teammates steals the ball, in which case it changes my control to him.

If it is changing at any other time than this (I'm pretty sure this is the only time I get the player changed?), then you are definately set to either auto, or semi auto changing. It sounds like semi-auto, because you still can change by pressing R1 (don't you mean L1?).

My instructions before should be ~somewhere~ around the mark. ;-) But definately try and change it to fully manual switching. The semi-automatic switching was something that I changed almost as soon as I played my first game of ISS Pro Evo, and I can understand it pissing you off. :D

Hope I've been of some help.

Originally posted by Sweden Boy
FIFA RULZZZ

that's weird, when i see that, i never see any explanation why...but usually when i see 'iss rulez', there is an logical explanation why it is...weird...

btw mister 'fifa rulez', did you played isspe 1, 2 or PES ???

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Sweden Boy
FIFA RULZZZ
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Three reasons for that:
1-He doesn't now anything about football;
2-He likes the "arcade-easy-to-beat-everyone" style of FIFA or
3-He has never played ISS-PES(poor bastard :( )

Voltaire:

AFAIK ISSPE1(the ver you have right?) doesn't have manual control. It was introduced on ISSPE2. Ofcourse I could be wrong(couldnt check my PS broke). BTW Get PE2 no matter what. Plays WAYYY better than PE1;)

ISSPE1 definately has manual switching. But everything else pokwang says is correct. After recently trying out PE1 while I lent out my PE2 cd, its amazing the progression in the games. It's not immediately apparent, but ISSPE2 is a big improvement over PE1 in terms of player control and general gameplay.

I've played ISS Pro Evo 1 for about 1 1/2 years, and I have never goten tired of playing it.

It takes a while to play this game right... You can't make a decision on this game in 1 week..you just can't.

You are wrong about not being able to meet the pass. If you take control of your player you can make him run to the ball instead of siting there and waiting for it.. This takes time and practice.. timing is everything.. Sure there is a small delay between the time when you push the pass button and the pass actually leaves the players foot.. but you don't have to push the button 3 or 4 times just to pass the ball like you've claimed. If that's so, then you have a broken controler or a broken game. How come I never had that problem?

You just have to get used to the timing differences and then you will take them in to consideration when you pass.. It will all be second nature when yuou have the hang of it.

If you truly are beating teams by such a large margin on normal, then bump it up to hard.

Many of the little things you complain about are resolved in ISS Pro Evolution 2. So you can buy that game and you might be happier.

The bottom line is that these are the greatest soccer games on this planet. And that's it. You can't compare fifa with them, you just can't. I play fifa for a day (and I'm being nice here) and I'm DONE with it. It's crap!! Me and a ton of other people play this gmae for years and never get tired of it. You're missing out on a great experiance if you don't keep playing. Stop reviewing the game.. it's been done before and only the moron from IGN got it wrong.