I think ytwoaone said this in another thread and I've been thinking it since watching the match yesterday. The Carragher incident was similar to the Cantona incident. The only difference is that Cantona went into the crowd. Carragher didn't see who threw the coin he just picked it up and threw it back into the crowd. It hit a woman, who registered a complaint with the police. Lucky it wasn't a young child. At least Cantona got the person and not an innocent bystander. :D

I don't think he will be punished as Cantona was because it wasn't quite so visually shocking. I think he should get a few months though. Even if someone did throw it at him, he's supposed to be setting an example.

Strange how people react though. With Cantona it was 'Disgusting. It doesn't matter if the person was shouting racist abuse at him he shouldn't have done it.'. But now it's 'Well, what do you expect if someone throws a coin at Carragher.'

Cantona didn't get physically HIT like Carragher, it was verbal abuse - you can't tell me there's no verbal abuse at matches, not to mention there are tons of racist fans out there still - that doesn't make the chants right but it also doesn't give players a license to lose it and go into the crowd. Carragher got hit and reacted like a moron throwing the coin back, he should get a suspension but to compare it to kung-fu kicking someone in the head is rediculous. Cantona lost it went into the crowd and violently attacked someone. You going to tell me next that Carragher should be charged too?

Would you like me to hurl a coin at you from 15 yards, or go right up to you and kick you in the head? Both are punishable offences but there are different degrees of severity.

Anyway this would have all been avoided if Carragher acted like a wimp and just hit the floor like many players would have done with play-acting being en vogue in today's game. That another difference between Cantona and Carragher - Carra was physically attacked, Cantona wasn't. If someone threw a coin at Henry or Owen and they hit the deck we'd all be talking about crowd security at Highbury and hooliganism amongst Arsenal fans.

Originally posted by Neutral LFC
You going to tell me next that Carragher should be charged too?

Actually I think he should. There are reports today that Carragher's coin hit an innocent woman who was shaken by the incident and left with her boyfriend holding her head. It's up to the police to decide. But Carragher was completely out of order.

Both players suffered the red mist, and shouldn't have done it. Beckham has been pelted by coins, lighters etc. by fans in the past and he didn't react, what would have happened if he did? I doubt it would have been the old 'oh well, what would you expect' Carragher is getting.

kung-fu kicking someone in the head

You obviously haven't seen this incident. In his head?! That supporter was a renowned trouble maker and should never have been allowed into the Stadium. At least he didn't go and hit someone that had nothing to do with it.

doesn't give players a license to lose it and go into the crowd

Neither does the incident the other day give Carragher the right to throw a coin back at the Arsenal fans.

Would you like me to hurl a coin at you from 15 yards, or go right up to you and kick you in the head?

What a crap argument. I wouldn't like either, would you? It wasn't as if Carragher was a)Going to hit the person who threw it in the first place because he had no idea where it came from, or b)Going to miss everyone in a packed stadium. Both were over the top reactions, Cantona shouldn't have done it and neither should Carragher. What's the difference?

If someone threw a coin at Henry or Owen and they hit the deck we'd all be talking about crowd security at Highbury and hooliganism amongst Arsenal fans

I agree, but if Henry or Owen had thrown it back we wouldn't be talking about what lovely examples to human kind they are would we.

The person who threw the coin at Carragher will be banned from Highbury for life when he's found. But Carragher is no better than him/her for his reaction.

I'd just like to see some consistency. Cantona got 9 months for his reaction (I thought that was harsh. I thought that banning him for the rest of the season was punishment enough and what he deserved). Carragher will likely get his 3 match ban for the red card. I think the rest of the season would be harsh but 3 matches, a slap on the wrist and 2 weeks wages - all of £30,000 I doubt he'd miss it - is a little bit like letting him off. Maybe Liverpool will take Leeds' example and fine him then increase his wage.

Carragher should get at least a 5 match ban. A lenghty ban will deter other players from re-acting in a violent way in similar situations. If carragher is slapped on the wrist it's not gonna effectively give the message the FA want people to see. No the carragher incident was no where near the level of violonece as Cantona's was, but he still has to be punished.

how can you compare this incident with carragher.. i know he is an idiot for reacting like that but who wouldn't considering the condition that you have just being tackle two footed which can seriously injuired him and then being missile by the fans.. it is easy for us to say that he should stay calm but if you are in the heat of things you can just lost it... and cantona actually KICK someone and that is very dangerous compare to the coin only...

i'm very dissapointed with the arsenal fans they themselve should go back and think deeply about what they have done and arsenal should be fine for this incident... :mad:

If Arsenal should be fined then so should Spurs.

It was a isolated incident. Arsenal will be taking the neccessary steps and ban this hooligan for life from Highbury.

Carragher may face police charges.

I think you're just pissed off that your Liverpool has lost to Arsenal. Of course they should be fined they beat you. :rolleyes:

I'm not trying to say that Carragher should have the same level of punishment as Cantona had for what he did, but what Carragher did was worse in ways (he got a person that had nothing to do with it) than what Cantona did but is not as bad in other ways (being physically hit is seen as being more provocative than verbal abuse, I don't necessarily agree with this in all circumstances). But both incidents are similar in that they were provoked, and neither should have done what they did. The 3 match ban Carragher is bound to get seems a tad weak for what he did.

yape i must agreed with you that spurs fans also reacted terribly... so do the cardiff incident it is a total disgrace to football... :mad: and it is arsenal's 12th men that help arsenal dispose of carragher... :confused:

Originally posted by Amika
yape i must agreed with you that spurs fans also reacted terribly... so do the cardiff incident it is a total disgrace to football... :mad:

I agree with that. But it's up to Arsenal to find and punish the person that did this. Cardiff have arrested many people following the incident there, and so too have Leeds police. But if one is to be fined then they all should. Consistency.

no, Carragher deposed of himself. Professional players walk onto a pitch knowing they cant behave like that, especially in fron of the public and the cameras. he is representing a presitgouis organisation and is obilged to behave. he would have been better being sent off for a horrendous foul than for throwing a coin at a spectator who he though threw it at him, thats the worst thing about it. At least Cantona hit the right bloke.

The hooligans don't represent a major part of an organisation, and Arsenal are taking the correct action by banning him for life.
U can't physically stop fans throwing coins, unless u take away all of their possessions and money (and popular will that be?)
Some people deliberately try to bring the game into disrepute, infact they try imposing anarchy on society. They won't listen to the authorites regardless of possible sanctions that are guaranteed to be inforced on them.

Mike Riley dealt with it very carefully. Instead of waiving a red card in Carragher's face the moment he threw the coin back, he pulled Carragher to the tunnel before showing the red card.

Originally posted by ytwoaone
no, Carragher deposed of himself. Professional players walk onto a pitch knowing they cant behave like that, especially in fron of the public and the cameras. he is representing a presitgouis organisation and is obilged to behave. he would have been better being sent off for a horrendous foul than for throwing a coin at a spectator who he though threw it at him, thats the worst thing about it. At least Cantona hit the right bloke.

it is easier said than done... it is natural for him to react... always remember he is also human.. eventhough he is a professional player...

Originally posted by ytwoaone
The hooligans don't represent a major part of an organisation, and Arsenal are taking the correct action by banning him for life.
U can't physically stop fans throwing coins, unless u take away all of their possessions and money (and popular will that be?)
Some people deliberately try to bring the game into disrepute, infact they try imposing anarchy on society. They won't listen to the authorites regardless of possible sanctions that are guaranteed to be inforced on them.

i must agreed with you on that.. and arsenal is doing all their power to ban the A55HOLE that throw the coin...

Just as Beckham did in the last world cup Carragher did it to himself. It's not easier said than done, if you react to the baiting you will get sent off, simple as. I don't see why Carragher should be defended with the 'he was only reacting' when countless times in the past when a player has reacted to incidents which wind them up, they have been attacked with 'he shouldn't have reacted'.

I'm sure Carragher regrets what he has done. But a 3 match ban would not be enough of an example in this instance.

I fond i very shocking that Phil Thompson was saying things like ..
Jamie (carragher) was well out of order ...
and now he's facing 3 match suspension and a large fine.

well what's a player to do ?
just stand there and take it all ? get things thow at him ?
I hope Carragher through that coin right in the face at the one that chucked it at him.

If that guy who threw the coin was right next to the pitch, im sure that Carrager would have gone up to him and knocked him one. It's the most similar incident to Cantona's that I can think of, he should be charged!

The guys who chucked coin was wrong

Carragher was wrong to throw it back

Nobody wins

Originally posted by ShearerM4
I fond i very shocking that Phil Thompson was saying things like ..
Jamie (carragher) was well out of order ...
and now he's facing 3 match suspension and a large fine.

well what's a player to do ?
just stand there and take it all ? get things thow at him ?
I hope Carragher through that coin right in the face at the one that chucked it at him.

Yes, i think he should be able to take that, he get's paid enough money doesn't he? Well that's a discipline he must observe if he is to be a professional and high paid player!

Beckham has been pelted by coins, lighters etc. by fans in the past and he didn't react, what would have happened if he did? I doubt it would have been the old 'oh well, what would you expect' Carragher is getting.




monkee, I couldn't agree more. Some people seem to have this mentality that anything a player does it's okay unless it's a Man Utd player. They act as if it's our fault that we keep winning the EPL every season. :rolleyes:

Originally posted by bex7
If that guy who threw the coin was right next to the pitch, im sure that Carrager would have gone up to him and knocked him one. It's the most similar incident to Cantona's that I can think of, he should be charged!

well, i couldn't agreed with you on this... guys we all have to look at the bigger picture than putting all the blame on carragher.. yes i must agreed that it is wrong for him to react but what is more alarming is that the problem with crowd control which seem to be out of hand during this past months and even the Professional Footballers' Association chief Gordon Taylor said the same... here is the cut out from an article at bbc sports...

"Moments after Dennis Bergkamp was sent off for a challenge on Carragher, the Liverpool player picked up a coin that was thrown at him and hurled it back into the crowd.

And while Taylor admits that Carragher was wrong to react, he believes the focus of attention should be on the crowd and not the player.

"He shouldn't have done it but if we start centring on Jamie Carragher and ignoring what's becoming a disturbing trend, we're going to have a problem getting players on the pitch because it's not safe," said Taylor.

"Of course he shouldn't react like that but there's close-circuit television, there's stewards, there are supporters themselves who must know who's throwing things.

"It's going to be impossible to play the game if this carries on."

While condemning Carragher's reaction to being targeted at Highbury, Taylor insisted that the behaviour of players is not to blame for recent examples of crowd trouble.

"We have 3,000 players and the vast majority of games provide brilliant entertainment," said Taylor.

"We're in a strange world where the person who doesn't perpetrate the problem, but gives the natural human response, gets sent off the field of play.

"Suddenly the attention of the whole football world is on Jamie Carragher, and not addressing the more serious problem of why are spectators getting out of hand again."


the full article can be read at this address...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport/hi/english/football/fa_cup/newsid_1786000/1786646.stm

I don't see why the attention should be on either Carragher or the crowd troubles. It should be on both. If people in the crowd do things like that they should be banned from entering football grounds for the rest of their lives (or at least a long time). But if Carragher behaves in the same way as these idiots why should he be defended or punished less severely? He's as bad as those who throw conis and should suffer the same charges and punishments. You can't have one rule for one and a different one for the 'professionals'.

well what's a player to do ?
just stand there and take it all ? get things thow at him ?
I hope Carragher through that coin right in the face at the one that chucked it at him.

Erm, yes. I don't expect them to throw the coin back into the crowd. And, no. He didn't get the person who hit him. By the looks of things he got some woman who had been watching the match without behaving like an idiot.

It's about image, if the FA slap Carragher on the wrist then the FA's image will take a right battering.

The FA have free carragher with additional charges and only got a formal warning from the police on the coin throwing incident.. great judgement from the FA and police... ;)

Originally posted by Amika
The FA have free carragher with additional charges and only got a formal warning from the police on the coin throwing incident.. great judgement from the FA and police... ;)

No formal charges were filed because no one complained of getting hit - so this fairytale about "some women who was pregnant with the second comming of Jesus Christ who subsequently had a miscarrage due to Carragher's coin throw which was in fact a premediated move inspired by the Taleban and Osama Bin Laden to destabilize the collective psyche of the British people in preparation for a mass-scale invasion of the British isles is........

FALSE.


No one got hurt (doesn't make the throwing right, but it's shows it's not as bad as GOING INTO THE CROWD and kung-fu kicking a spectator) and Carragher gets a 3 match ban. The day after the incident was Carragher's birthday, wonder if anyone got him a set of collectable coins....

I find this baffling. What are they going to do if it happens again? Be consistent, I doubt it. Imagine if it were a Leeds player that did it, a ton of bricks comes to mind. After all it looks like Bowyer's going to be slapped with a hefty suspension for misconduct a few seasons ago. I don't even like Bowyer, but I do like some consistency.

This is the most lenient decision I've seen in years. 'You naughty boy'. 'We'll let him off because he apologised afterwards'. It's almost as bad as Andy Gray's 'He didn't even throw it that hard.'

It's a load of bollocks. Surprising that only Liverpool fans could see how innocent and sweet Carragher was. 'If you play it in slow motion it appears as if he's only passing the coin back to the person who threw it so as he could get a cup of tea with it.'

well, monkee we all know that even professional footballer are human and human got emotion and professional footballer is not god or machine and surely sometime they will get carry away and lost their cool... just put yourself in carragher shoes... if you have just been tackle two footed and then being throw at the back with those XXXXX words coming from your arsenal fans do you react?? i know it is stupid for him to react but he is human... and human made mistake...

o.k.. for example, your henry having a go at graham poll after the newcastle match is one of the most disgusting screen i've even seen in EPL... and i do know at the heat of things one may lost his cool and he did.. if you want to compare it should be in the same context as the carragher case, instead of hitting on the fan he go and question the ref... i think if he was not pull away from his teammates he might have had a go at graham poll... so this is just to show you that even the best players may lost his cool some day...

Originally posted by Amika
sometime they will get carry away and lost their cool

I'm not saying any different, all I'm saying is that you can't have one rule for one and a different rule for another. If a player elbows another player in the face they get a misconduct charge. If that player retaliates, losing their cool, they get the same. You can't say that fans can't throw coins and then let Carragher get away with the same thing (even if it was in retaliation it makes him no better).

henry having a go at graham poll after the newcastle match is one of the most disgusting screen i've even seen in EPL...

if you want to compare it should be in the same context as the carragher case, instead of hitting on the fan he go and question the ref...

I agree with you. But if Cantona gets banned for 9 months for hitting a fan and afterwards Man Utd say we'll ban him for the rest of the season and he gets charged by the police then Carragher has, to all intents and purposes, got away with a similar, although less visually shocking, offence based on the FA's idea that he's a nice enough lad and apologised for it. Maybe they should ban him from ever playing at Highbury again as they would the fans that throw coins.

It seems to me as if the FA is acting like a referee sending off a player for a two footed tackle then allowing another player to do it without any penalty.

Originally posted by monkee


I agree with you. But if Cantona gets banned for 9 months for hitting a fan and afterwards Man Utd say we'll ban him for the rest of the season and he gets charged by the police then Carragher has, to all intents and purposes, got away with a similar, although less visually shocking, offence based on the FA's idea that he's a nice enough lad and apologised for it. Maybe they should ban him from ever playing at Highbury again as they would the fans that throw coins.


Still three MAJOR differences;

i)Carragher was PHYSICALLY provoked (Cantona wasn't)
ii)Carragher never went INTO the crowd (Cantona did)
iii)Carragher hurt no one (if he did then why were no charges pressed by this mysterious woman?)

Those (especially the last two) are major differences, to compare this event to Cantona's actions is rediculous and I'm glad the FA and the police authorities see it that way. Or are you going to say that the London police are biased Liverpool supporters too?

Originally posted by Neutral LFC

Those (especially the last two) are major differences, to compare this event to Cantona's actions is rediculous and I'm glad the FA and the police authorities see it that way. Or are you going to say that the London police are biased Liverpool supporters too?

well said... :)

i think that violence in football is always a probability.....jamie carragher is one of the players i really really hate ( alongside silvestre and mills of course ).....
im also a man utd fan but i never hated liverpool....so ill try to be pretty neutral!

a disgusting accident really to see from players and fans at this level.....if this is what we'll see in the EPL..what would we see in argentina or brazil or africa whew football is soo violent!!

what jamie did was wrong and he deserved an EXAGGERATED ban just to show ppl that the FA won't hesitate or tolerate this THUGS S H I T!!

at the same time...i dont think what carragher did was worse than what the leeds united A S S HO L E club players are doing...a bunch of trash players doing every kind of violent conduct over 90 mins legally and illegally!!

the issue is very complicated but what i believe is that THE PUNISHMENT SHOULD BE THE SAME FOR HOWEVER DOES IT.... not 3 games for jamie and a year for eric.....

talkin about eric....from a legal view its the same offense..he was provoked and he retaliated.... jamie was harrased physically and eric verbally just as neutral pointed out.... and i really dont see why eric's response is worse than jamie's....at least eric got his man and wasnt trying to hit anyone...it was personal!!

and for all ppl with problems with great players and jealousy...if david beckham had done it they would ask for his head...which is normal for ppl with soo little common sense and a lot of hatred and problems in their lives.... no offense intended to anyone but jamie was wrong and should be punished strongly......

when u are a proffessional this means that u dont retaliate to pressure...dont do schoolboy mistakes.... i really liked the fact that he had apologized but arsenal fans were offended....and every football fan was....

also the crowd has to behave...players are also humans and u cant just swear and do everything to them......they may be paid a lot of money which im jealous of tooo..but they do entertain u.....with marvellous skills and EXTREME STUPIDITY ( HESKEY HEHEH)

ALL MY LOVE TO LOYAL FOOTBALL FANS AND PLAYERS WHO LOVE FAIR PLAY AND FAIR COMPETITION...

MAN UTD THE CHAMPIONS OF ENGLAND

shez

Those (especially the last two) are major differences, to compare this event to Cantona's actions is rediculous and I'm glad the FA and the police authorities see it that way

In your obviously unbiased point of view. In much the same way as the London Police were. :rolleyes: Maybe you also think that Bergkamp deserves a mor severe punishment for his challenge?

What the Police do they do without considering anyone to be a member of any club. They obviously thought that he'd done enough to warrant a warning, and if he does it again he will be punished.

Originally posted by shez
what jamie did was wrong and he deserved an EXAGGERATED ban just to show ppl that the FA won't hesitate or tolerate this THUGS S H I T!!

the issue is very complicated but what i believe is that THE PUNISHMENT SHOULD BE THE SAME FOR HOWEVER DOES IT.... not 3 games for jamie and a year for eric.....

talkin about eric....from a legal view its the same offense..he was provoked and he retaliated.... jamie was harrased physically and eric verbally just as neutral pointed out.... and i really dont see why eric's response is worse than jamie's....at least eric got his man and wasnt trying to hit anyone...it was personal!!

and for all ppl with problems with great players and jealousy...if david beckham had done it they would ask for his head...which is normal for ppl with soo little common sense and a lot of hatred and problems in their lives.... no offense intended to anyone but jamie was wrong and should be punished strongly......

when u are a proffessional this means that u dont retaliate to pressure...dont do schoolboy mistakes.... i really liked the fact that he had apologized but arsenal fans were offended....and every football fan was....

also the crowd has to behave...players are also humans and u cant just swear and do everything to them

Precisely. Well said :) That's the point I'm trying to make but it's starting to look to me as if the majority of Liverpool fans and staff were doing their best impersination of an Ostrich when the incident happened. Or maybe Wenger 'I did not see the incident - I had my head up my arse'

Now why is it that they have let Carragher get away with what he did but all of the sudden two Leeds players, Smith and Viduka, (not counting Bowyer who was brought up before), Hasselbaink and Melchiot from Chelsea, Vieira of Arsenal and Di Canio of West Ham have been brought up for misconduct charges after sweet innocent angel Carragher has been let off with a similar offence aimed at the Arsenal fans. There's loads of consistency in the FA.

I remember when Keane and other Man Utd players went after the ref a couple of seasons ago, you were all baying for blood then. What has changed?