What a game!Heavily favored AEK won the Greek Cup 3-0 over Ionikos.The scorers were Nikolaidis,Maladenis and Petkov.Ionikos dream has ended,but it was still an accomplishment to make it to the Final for Ionikos.I congradulate them!As for AEK everyone knew it was comeing,and now they locked a Uefa Cup spot for next year!

Bravo AEK!!! It was a good game!

poli pou tous endiaferei re megale... LOL!!!

FORZA AEKAPA!!!!!!!!!

I think this is another proof that both AEK and Panathinaikos should be higher in the rankings than to-be-champion Olympiakos.

WHO CARES!!!

Kimiz,

Obviously the 4 Greeks in this forum care.Look if u don't care,why bother looking at it? It's a free world u know!

And I agree that AEK and PAO are good teams,but Olympiakos is still the best in Greece.AEK is rebuilding by getting Zagorakis and Stoltidis,and maybe another defender.PAO is a strong team but really need a striker.PAOK is really looking good behind Bajevic,he is going to make them a European class team.But Olympiakos is still the best.If we get another player or two,we would definately be a contender in Europe.Either way next year looks exciting!Oly,PAO,AEK and PAOK should be battleing it out for the top spot,I can't wait!

What I was trying to indirectly point out is the fact that, when Olympiakos is having trouble winning a game, there will always be the man in black to save him

Yes well that seems to be the case in every league now isn't it.In SERIE A,everyone hates Juve and everytime something goes there way the refs helped.In the Premier League same with Man U.And in the Greek League same with Olympiakos.It's merely jelousy,I mean If PAO won 4 in a row,I would be pretty ticked off also.

But PAOK,

Let me bring out a point.If Olympiakos get help from the Refs,and thats the reason we are winning,then how did we make it to the Quarter Finals last year in the CL? Are the European refs helping to? U can't have that kind of success and not be a good team. I mean just answer that question,how can a team be make it that far in Europe,yet not deserve 4 Championships in a row? the Refs? I think not.

I knew this was going to come up. We live in 2000. Stop acting like children. It's minds that think like that the reason our football is suffering. Stop acting like the old typical greek PAOK Fan. We're sitting here trying to figure out how to improve our clubs at the european level and our National teem and wht do I hear, something about men in black. I belive favoratism is long gone in our country from the referes. Idon't know about others, I just care about us. When ever one of the big three win the championship someone is always there to cry wolf. Remember a team called AEL. Yes the team of Larissa, 1986 champions. Some of you were still crawling then. If outsiders wanted to make them not win the championship they would of. As far as Olympiakos is involved they have clearly dominated without doubt the greek pitches for the last four years. Yes I am a Red or Dead fan but let's look at the facts. I'll be neutral. A team that was in the 8 best clubs of the Eurooean scene last year and if luck was on there side the would have been in the best four if it wasn't for one small mistake agains Juve, clearly needs the help of the referes back home to beat Kavala, Proodeutiki, Ethnikos Asteras and so on, I don't think so.Yes there have been teams like Panathinaikos that have done better like go to the final against Ajax at Wembley but that's not the issue here. Look at what Olympiakos went through this year. Yes Panathinaikos did play well and was considered a contender and officially still is but the are missing one important thing. Cohesion amongst the players and unity. Gianakopoulos scored against Ionikos last Wednesday and the first thing he did was run to the bench and dedicate it to Giovanni. Olympiakos players showed to us how a team should work. At no point through the season did thay have a full compliment of players, heck at some games almost have the team was out due to injuries. We signed to big names and let one go. Georgatos. We ended up weekening the team instead of making it stronger. Yes I think Giovanni is the best thing that hit the greek fields since the early days of the Batista era. But the poor guy was out for the past six months with an injury. As far as Zahovic is conserned, there is not much to say, he is scum. He does not know the meanning of TEAM. Mark my words when the Euro cup comes around he'll be one of the top players. And that's what we want so his stocks will come up and we'll sell the S.O.B. You want more on the topic of unity amongst players and heart for the game. There was no leader this year, a record breaking three coaches passed through the bench, but they still got the championship. Bajevic. I liked him, he was the best coach we ever had. But in the end he still wasn't what we needed to take us to the next level. Olympiakos in the past several years has totaly changed it's image and appearance. It has become a Team that is above names and people. That is one problem Zahovic had. He was so used to being the star at Porto that when he came to OSFP and saw that all are equal he coulnd handle it. Same goes for Bajevic, he started to loose the label as savior and was loosing his nickname as the head cheese, he could stand not beeing the top gun so thats why he chickened out and left. He didn't like the fact that he wasn't viewed anymore as the ultimate being at Olympiakos. However that's the way more clubs in greece should work and that's the way all the big clubs in Europe work. But that's something Panathinaikos has not figured out. The problem there is Bardinogiannis. He's the one who decides which player is bought and which layer gets a new contract and stays. Thats not the way it should work, that's the managers team job, he should fork out the money only. Look at Atletico Madrid for example, thay have the famous mutimillionare Gil for owner and president, he has loads of cash but next year they are playing in the B division cause he can't help himself from interfering with issues that shouldn't even be on his mind. Since I'm talking now about managment I might as well look at AEK. Thay don't stand a chance at the championship because of Stathhs, hes a child with no experience and shoots his mouth off to easily. He signed Chouto and Stoltidi, where are they? AEK has to get rid of him. Now for Olympiakos. Sokrates Kokkalis is the smartest guy alive in Greece right now, when it comes to business nobody beets him. He as domonated all of greece. Each cell phone that someone buys goes to the Olympiakos superstar fund, he has monopolized the telecomunications market. By the way all you PAOK fans with cell phones bought Giovanni for us, and all you AEK and Panathinaikos fans are paying for the the next two stars that are comming this summer. Lets face it. That's what football is all about. Olympiakos and Panathinaikos have damn good teams. It's as simple as that cause they have the money, to buy the best players, not the men n black. I see PAOK reaching this level in the next five to six years, they are taking baby steps now but they are on the right track.

[This message has been edited by Kostas 7 (edited 05-12-2000).]

[This message has been edited by Kostas 7 (edited 05-12-2000).]

LOL,Bravo re Kosta!!!!!

I wanted to say all that but I don't have the patience to right all that.

I think that the team has made its cycle. Olympiakos has good players but players like Zahovic do not fit in right. As for the rest, I think you all saw that the team was being kept in order by Bajevic. So, I am not saying it is not one of the best teams in Greece but I am trying hard to remember an other team in Europe to change 3 managers in a single year and still win the title. It's not that they do not deserve it exactly, it is that officials help them in crucial points in time, just like Panathinaikos in the 80s.
Panathinaikos has also a good team but not title-worthy yet. Vardinoyiannis is crazy to let his most valuable unit walk away, and I don't mean Mykland, but okay, he's done it before, so...
AEK is not going anywhere in my opinion, they have too much organizational trouble to do anything. They are only going through good and bad phases of climate in the dressing rooms. The tema must come to clearly Greek hands.
PAOK is looking to top the League next year, provided that Bajevic will be allowed to work without disruptions from the inside (there are plenty).
Don't write off Aris and Iraklis yet, as capital has moved in. we 're expecting a good degree of professionalism over there next year, combined with the taking over of Kyrastas in one of them.
That should boost the championship.
All we need next, is modern, big, well maintained STADIUMS. And referees from another planet... http://www.soccergaming.com/ubb/wink.gif
Greetings,
Immortal (Panathinaikos)

Well Immortal it's nice to have another fan.Are u Greek?

Anyway I think Olympiakos is the best team right now.I mean with all the injuries we sustained we still are going to win the Championship.I think that the only player missing is Georgatos.Now about Zahovic,well i'm not gonna get into that.But everyone else fits in just fine.Giovanni-When he came of his injury the fans greeted him with a standing ovation,after that he said he loves Olympiakos and wants to play for them for many years to come.So he "fits" in.Djordjevic-He has always loved Oly,he feels like part of the team,no doubt about that.So the only "party pooper" is Zahovic!Everyone else is just fine.And I predict OSFP is going to be even better next year,And our new coach Mantzourakis is just fine,I like his style of play I see good things in the future!PAOK is another team I see making a run.With Bajevic they will become strong.He knows who to bring in to make them a quality side.AEK,mark my words they are going to be strong next year!I mean they are really serious about the transfers this year,Like Zagorakis is going there,Stoltidis is comeing after this year.Then all they need is another Defender to go with Dellas and Kasapis.Aris and Iraklis I don't see anything special happining.

What do you guys think about Aris-Olympiakos 0-1 in Mytilini?

Oh, and suppose it was not Panathinaikos but Olympiakos in PAO matches against OFI and Panahaiki. I bet my head there would be a ref such as Kasnaferis (Aris-Olympiakos)to help them.

And I'm not a typical PAOK fan if you put it that way, I'm an intelligible soccer fan. But don't f*****g deny everything!

Hey, I never disagreed that Olympiakos is a European level team (well, top level I'll have to think of, because Juve you are so proud to have played didn't even make it to the UEFA Cup) while all other Greek teams are xopio-level. I never even disagreed that, if we look at players, most of Olympiakos footballers are one class ahead of all other Greek teams' players. What I said was that this year's Olympiakos (and being unlucky, you know, is part of the game) did not deserve to win the Championship against Panathinaikos.

Now go deny this one, and you'll never hear of me again. If you want to DISCUSS some stuff and not play us-against-the-PAOKtsis, then you'd better not.

You know what PAOKTZI I don't know if I should f*****g bother at all. Don't let the f word bother you. You used previously. You come telling us about the Olympiakos-Aris match. What about it. Here is what I know. It's to bad all the games played on our pitches aren't like that one. How many shots did Aris have? I'm talking total shots not only the ones on goal. Olympiakos hit the cross bar three times. And if it wasn't for the excellent work of Aris goalkeeper who knows how many they would of popped in. It was one man against Olympiakos. As far as the penalty is conserned what about it. It's part of the game. I say we get rid of it what do you say? Might aswell get rid of the red cards and the free kicks altogether!!!!! But then again some other excuse will be found. The past two years also there has been something new added to the game. I don't know if you have seen it but in the last minute of every half the fourth ref comes on the sidelines with a board stating how many more minutes will be added to the game. This is done in order to avoid any confusion or any assumptions made for the outcome of the game. As far as I see it that is a minute just like any minute. I don't care if they score in the first or the last minute. Then we might as well take off the last ten minutes of the game aswell cause no goals should be scored in that time period right? What about Panathinaikos you still haven't explained to us why they should be champions. I look at the numbers and I try to look at it from your point of view. They don't add up for crying out loud. Olympiakos had the best offence and defence. Now what am I supposed to say about the past couple of games before the Panahaiki-Panathinaikos game. Pana scored in both there games at the 90+ minute. The only thing I could say was bad luck for us. The referee didn't kick it in. Actualy one of my best friends plays for them. N. Lyberopoulos. I've never heard him complain. Issues like this have never come up like this. Otherwise we would have finished the championship race long before last week. What about OFI and Panathinaikos. Do I have to remind you about the first match down in Crete. What about us, we got slaughtered down there. As far as Panathinaikos being a contender. Well we made them one. Our mistakes and injures to the team made them look good. Take for example this years round of Oly-Juve. In italy we made them look stupid. We were almost ther for a second time. We lost chances non stop. But is Olympiakos at the level Juve is? Not yet atleast. Take 21 years of hell Oly went through when the couldn't beet PAOK in Touba. I was lucky enough to be a student in Salonica the year of 93 when the 3 Russian Migs put an end to that horible streak. For twenty one years we couldn't win in there. It was a combination of PAOK being the beter team on that match day every year and the amazing fan support. It wasn't the refs that did it to us. It was PAOK. And since then when we walk out of there with our heads high we get the referee supporting them issue. You think a ref can go into there and leave alive after favouring Oly? You should know better than that. As far as the games against Pana. Well hats of to them in the first match, they gave us a licking, the second match was a show case of footblall. But then again Pana would be champs if the leauges had two teams and two games. But there are 18 teams and all teams must go through a 34 game schedule. Now please I don't wan't to read anymore commets like this is not up for debate and don't respond to messages cause the point is clear. We are all here to learn something about our fravorite sport. I don't know everything and I look forward to learning more. Even more I look forward to reading views from guys like you. Your football environment is defferent than mine, there is more was than one to view issues. Iv'e mostly seen it all. I don't think the issue has to due with the refs or the rest of the Greek footbal federation officials. It has to do with the fans, again I think. Look at what happend a couple of weeks ago. Once again a Greek team dominated the Basketball court. A Greek team for god sakes. And what happend? Any car that was in Salonica with an Athens License plate was trashed, and people were beaten. This had nothing to do with PAOK, ARIS or Iraklis. Mind you the same might have happend in Athens, it's not a Salonica thing, besides it's my fravorite city. 1992. PAOK-Olympia Loubliana. Basket Ball. I went to see it. PAOK won and the parade began. I decided to join them even though I had my Kalamata black and white scarf. Heck they always go to the white tower afterwards and I lived downthere across the street above the Corner pizza store so I followed. Along the way cars parked were being smashed. When the fanilly got there every orange and blue bus trying to get by was dammaged. Same tima ARIS had there game abroad. They won too. Suddenly you can see them comming down Ethnikhs Amhnis. Time for me to go upstairs to my balcony and whach the show I said. And what a show it was. Not one window pain was left unbroken, cars and stores were destroyed. I said to myself what if my car was down there. Wha the F*** did I do to them. Any way. I think that's the problem. It all comes down to us. The fans. I now am studying in Canada. A family can easly gao all together to a Raptors game. There is now way in hell one could go in Greece.

[This message has been edited by Kostas 7 (edited 05-14-2000).]

For the record it was clearly an intentional hand ball, regarding OFI-Oly game. Also hats of to OFI, very good game play, very difficult to beat as always.

Respectable views Kosta, but you have to admit Olympiakos had a little bit of a "push" to get where he is. I can't see any other team deserving the title but you can't tell us that you are satisfied with what you see when they get on the pitch. Last year's team was much better.
As for the "pushing", I don't mean that the referees are paid or anything, no. It is just a stupid greek philosophy. You see a guy from Olympiakos/Panathinaikos/AEK fall down in the box against Panahaiki/Apollon/Trikala/you-name-it; it's gotta be a penalty. What I am saying is that we have lousy referees/linesmen(particularly those). Have you ever seen one beyond the preliminary phases of the European Cups?Nope, never, and it is not for no reason.
And as for the fan situation i 'm just gonna remind you that next year the removal of the bars will be obligatory!!!So we re gonna have lots of laughs with sh*****s taking their heads off eachother. Some time they are going to be bored. That' when you 'll be able to take your kids to see football.

Greetings,
Immortal

P.S. Yes, I am Greek, in UK

Immortal. Points taken. I agree with many of your views. Olympiakos is not the team it was last year, I agree. A combination of the loss of Georgatos(comming back), the injury to Giovanni was a blow, the Zahovic incident, and the early outing from the Champions leauge was to big of a blow for the team. I think they learned however cause Panathinaikos closed the gap this year, expect many changes from both teams this summer. I didn't know next year they are getting rid of the bars in the stadiums. That's going to be interesting and your statement I think is very accurate on whats going to happen in the begining of implimenting that. I think its gone to far, Ive gone to many games accross europe except for the UK, Oly hasn't gone there as long as iv'e been following them. But it must be said we alongside with the Italians must be one of the worst fans. I went to Madrid to see Oly-Atletico in 1993. It was fine. I felt more petrified standing in gate 7 in Karaiskaki Stadium when we were playing there than in Spain. Touba, and Nea Philadelphia the same, hell brakes loose. Heck even team officials don't hesitate to pull out there guns at each other RE: AEK-Panionis game. I'm very interested to know however how is it in England now a days. Is it possible for fans of opposite sides to sit together? Can a MUFC fan site alongside a Liverpool fan? Or are they still sitting in seperate stands? I realise each probably make fun of each other, heck it's human nature and I don't want it any other way when it comes to Football, but does the violence still exist? Please reply if you can. Thanx.
Oh I forgot. No I didn't like the way we were playing this year under Bajevic and Bigon. I do like the way Matzourakis has set up the team now, players are also comming back from injuries. Bajevic I liked the previous years of football. Not this year though.

[This message has been edited by Kostas 7 (edited 05-15-2000).]

Look at the bright side of things guys. Were not that bad. Lazio just won the championship in the last game about an hour ago and hell is breaking loose. Scandals and payoffs are already surfacing. Observe the forum for the next couple of days.

To Kostas: That is EXACTLY my point: Olympiakos was very unlucky against Aris, and should have won by 0-4. BUT WHY SHOULD THERE BE A REFEREE TO GIVE A NO-PHYSICAL-CONTACT PENALTY JUST TO SAVE OLYMPIAKOS?

Oh, and, could you go over your post and review your points, cause there is no point in them at all. AND I HAVE BEEN "INTO THERE" IN A PAOK - OLYMPIAKOS MATCH THREE TIMES AND KNOW FAR BETTER WHAT HAPPENED WITH VALLIANOS AS A REF!

Well guys I have been out of action a bit,but wow.U all have your points of view but,"favoring" like Immortal said happens in every league.Look at what happened to us (Oly) in the CL league game vs Real in Madrid.Remember that,R.Carlos all of a sudden a goalie?? I mean he totally knocked the ball down when it was going into the net!And the ref just looked away! So in every league,when a "big" team plays a small team that happens.Adn when I say big teams I mean Oly,PAO and AEK.We all get favored over the smaller teams.


But like Kostas said,look whats happening in SERIE A! They are at each others throats,accusing the teams of exactly what u are accusing Oly of doing! It is mostly the fans! When a team is winning fans start "stretching" the truth.I mean I was talking with a PAO fan yesterday and he was saying how the Penalty against OFI was BS.How can u say that?? I mean he clearly jumped up and hit the ball down! A clear penalty! And also in each of these past games we have been dominating the opposition.


This year PAO just shot themselves in the foot!Particulary in 3 games:PAO 0-1 Proodeftiki, they were just terrible! PAO 0-1 Panahaiki,again they just didn't show up to play.And finally PAO 2-2 Oly,it was a good game.And if it wasn't for Alexandris this year I don't know where we would be! So really PAO doesn't have that extra bit of talent to get over the hump. Thats why they are in 2nd. Maybe if there owner would dish out some money they wouldn't have to deal with Albanians and Poles.


In my mind Oly might not have been the better team but,we pulled together when it counted! Thats why we are the champs! And I heard Georgatos is homesick and might come back,He was the leader a year ago,and if that happens with Giovanni and Choutos up front watch out!

Now it is time to be proud! 4 in a row!

OLYMPIAKOS FOREVER!!!

Listen I'm not here to take anyones side, I don't take the refs side either. All I want to say is that I don't want fans saying that a team wins a championship based on the fact that the men in black gave it to them. They aren't perfect either. What's the point of going to the games if we know the outcome. Someone has to loose. You wan't PAOK to win I want Oly, thats only were we differ. Neither are you nor I perfect. As far as the game you are reffering to I honistly have no knowledge. Is that the last game that happend in Touba?

Just read the bad news. It seems that we are going to loose another star. Nikolaidis is going abroad. The other bad part to this is that Pathiakakis is only looking abroad for players. How sad.

Greekfanatic mhn blexeis me tous Tourkous giati 8a ginoume mouni edo mesa. Astoi einai malakes den blepeis ti lene. Giafto ego den apantisa se auta pou egrapse giati 8a ginoume kolos.

[This message has been edited by Kostas 7 (edited 05-15-2000).]

Poios sas gamaei re florakia Athinaioi

Asto PAOKTZI. Malakes einai. Pantos se euxaristo gia ta kala sou logio. The funny thing is that the team that everyone is critisizing Oly has tied the alltime record in total points and there are two games left to break it.

Endaxi Kosta,

I'll try,what they say just pisses me off so much,but I see your point.

Did you guys read at all the Subject: (Lazio are not champions of italy ,but a team of south americans who like to bribe ...) Just like I told you guys.

All I am saying is that we have worse referees than other countries in terms of ability, in general. Not that they give championships or anything.
Kosta: in the UK there was loads of trouble with the hooligans some 15 years ago, you must remember the Hazel thing, in Belgium. When this happened, british teams were banned for 5 years(!) from all european competition. This hurt a lot so they tried to hit the trouble to the root. Hooligans were eliminated in effect. Nowadays, you won't see fans of opposing teams sitting together-at least in League games. Policemen are standing in each gate and each section of the stands, and unlike their Greek counterparts, they won't even glance at the action. All they do is watch the fans. The first guy to do sth nasty is thrown out without prior notice although, rarely do they have to do anything like that. They just do not need to. The residue trouble is around the stadiums where there is still reasonable danger of opposing fans getting together.
In general though, it's highly civilized (maybe a little bit too much http://www.soccergaming.com/ubb/wink.gif).
Also, in 1991 one of the bars in Hillsborough, Sheffield was the main cause of some 100 people dying against the pressure on the bars (something largely similar to Thyra 7 1981). This caused the british to get rid of the bars in every single stadium within 2 years. This regulation is coming in force probably next year (period 2001-2002) in every EU country, if i am not mistaken.
Greetings,
Immortal

PS1. Don't get into analyzing any particular facts in games. It's time-consuming and pointless. The fact is we got bad (worse)officials, period.
PS2. How old are you guys?
PS3. Tha ithela kapoios na mou pei ti egine me tous Tourkous.
PS4. Yiati brizei tous Athinaious o Paoktzis twra?

All I am saying is that we have worse referees than other countries in terms of ability, in general. Not that they give championships or anything.
Kosta: in the UK there was loads of trouble with the hooligans some 15 years ago, you must remember the Hazel thing, in Belgium. When this happened, british teams were banned for 5 years(!) from all european competition. This hurt a lot so they tried to hit the trouble to the root. Hooligans were eliminated in effect. Nowadays, you won't see fans of opposing teams sitting together-at least in League games. Policemen are standing in each gate and each section of the stands, and unlike their Greek counterparts, they won't even glance at the action. All they do is watch the fans. The first guy to do sth nasty is thrown out without prior notice although, rarely do they have to do anything like that. They just do not need to. The residue trouble is around the stadiums where there is still reasonable danger of opposing fans getting together.
In general though, it's highly civilized (maybe a little bit too much http://www.soccergaming.com/ubb/wink.gif).
Also, in 1991 one of the bars in Hillsborough, Sheffield was the main cause of some 100 people dying against the pressure on the bars (something largely similar to Thyra 7 1981). This caused the british to get rid of the bars in every single stadium within 2 years. This regulation is coming in force probably next year (period 2001-2002) in every EU country, if i am not mistaken.
Greetings,
Immortal

PS1. Don't get into analyzing any particular facts in games. It's time-consuming and pointless. The fact is we got bad (worse)officials, period.
PS2. How old are you guys?
PS3. Tha ithela kapoios na mou pei ti egine me tous Tourkous.
PS4. Yiati brizei tous Athinaious o Paoktzis twra?

oops sorry for double-posting

Now Zahovic is stating that he made a mistake and it was his fault. Ti 8elh auto to mouni tora mou les.

First of all to PAOK,

What the HELL is your problem! I'm not from Athena but I have family there! Why do u say those things?? We are all Greek,and we should have respect for each other!!!!

And Immortal,

The Turks have been here for some time,they post this and that about Turkey and one time I just disagreed with them and they blew up.Saying all this stuff like I was a racist and so on.All I did was comment on a team.I think it was Galatasaray.And also Remember the game game vs Romania a few months back.We won 2-0 and I posted it,like many other people do,then the Romanians were in shock and totally blew up.And the Turks helped them because of Hagi.I personally don't have a problenm with them.But u just can't have a differn't opinion from them. U know?

I read from one site that Vardinogiannis is leaving Panathinaikos, and very soon once he comes back from his trip to the states. Does anyone know anything about this? Is PAO for sale? Also I read that Papadopoulos former owner of Kalamata and multibillionare (diamond minning in south africa) is interested in bying AEK. If that happens with tha cash flows going into the league now it's going to be better than ever, Papadopoulos will be AEK's savior.

[This message has been edited by Kostas 7 (edited 05-16-2000).]

WOW! http://www.soccergaming.com/ubb/eek.gif You must have your keyboards overheated with all this writing!

Like all the major greek teams do, Panathinaikos has a wide range of people revolving around the chairman. These guys did not like Yiannis Kirastas, whose work, personally I admire. George Vardinoyiannis on the other hand, was in favour of Kirastas. Insisting pressure and diminishing power are driving him away from the team now. Allegedly he is going to be preoccupied with the building of a new stadium for PAO.
But no, Panathinaikos is not for sale. The team management will be passed on to younger members of the family to keep up the good work....
Greetings
immortal