Do any of you remember USA beating Argentina 1-0?? Do you remember Chicago Fire beating Toluca. Mexico's best team. they haven't lost in 50 years until Chicago beat them. Chicago beat Derby County from England too. DC United winning the Western Hemisphere Champions thing. Do you remember in February USA beating Germany 3-0?? I do, I saw that match and plus when they beat Germany again. Dont say Germany wasn't at full strenght either. believe me they were. except for brazil when they lost. germany is always at full strength when they play internationals. it shows that america is imporving at soccer. in club teams too. but there is only one team that is way higher than the other teams when it comes to skill and that can compete with other big names. that is DC UNITED. Give MLS a chance. Dont say it sucks when you haven't even seen a league game before. why are scouts from Europe are starting to offer players contracts to play in Europe then? They notices how high of a level they play. Stern John from Columbus is going to be playing with a England Premier League next year. During the World Cup 98 there were teams that wanted Eddie Pope to play on their teams. For example Borrusia Dortmund wanted him during France 98 because of how could he was. European teams are starting to notice how good MLS is getting, but none of you dumb ****s dont realize that yet and its pissing me off!(sorry if i affended any of you guys. just kind of pissed, thats all) if you want the leagues website address here it is.
www.mlsnet.com

no offense, but your league is not at a very high level. i hapenned to watch many mls games and honestly i can say that it's level is about the level of the third division in european countries like yugoslavia, where i am from. i watched both sides and i know this. third division clubs could play very evenly with the mls teams.

secondly, germany was NOT at full strength when us beat them. if you read the teams carefully you would notice that, bierhoff, kirsten, babbel, kahn etc did not play. actually the only player that played in federations cup and that starts for germany when at full strength was heinrich, although he is not a regular. so that was not a real measure of strengths. we all know how well us showed themselves in world cup. everyone who knows a bit about soccer would have to agree that iran - us game was nothing more than a good laugh, since soccer at that game was such at a low level it was very funny. players from either side did not know basic things a soccer player should know. for example, pass to the open player, or pass to the advancing player.

obviously the us has got a very long way to go, and i honestly cannot see them anywhere contending in the next 50 years. unless they buy brazilians or something. coa.

zivela srbija.

Wait a minute. I'll be the first to agree that the US league is not on par with the big leagues in Europe. There are some very good US players, unfortunately they are diluted by some very average to poor players. When good players play on the same team with poor ones, the game will suffer. It's not that the US doesn't have good players, the problem is we simply don't have enough of them.

As for the national team, we were just as embarrassed by our intl performance in France as the Germans were with theirs this summer. However, one bad stretch does not make a bad team.

And remember, considering how poorly we played (and we played VERY BADLY) and how the game was worthy of laughter - Yugoslavia only beat us by one goal. Doesn't say much for Yugoslavia does it(nothing against Iran, I was actually impressed with them.) Now, Holland beat Yugoslavia by one goal, I wonder if they laugh at you.

And yet you think your third division would beat our first...the evidence doesn't support that.

You know what's crazy? Here in the US we pull for the underdog. When Jamaica put a bobsled team in the Olympics, we loved it. When Britian had a ski-jumper, we cheered louder than anyone. Clearly the US is not at the level of the teams in Europe. But we want to be, and we obviously have a great deal of respect for these teams. It's a game, and it's a shame that we can't pull for each other for the love of it.

Very well said, Cubillas.

Everyboby know, why MLS will be in Fifa2000, although it's one the bad leagues in Fifa2000.

to nookie:
and you belive that if you beat Derby County, it makes you best in the world?
how can you explane me the match USA-Iran 1:2? Haven't you seen it? Huh? It was just your luck that you didn't loose 0:3 on the last minutes.
If the team beats other team ones, it doesn't mean they're the best. You should beat them all the time.
There is a difference between the world cup games and local cups with friendlies games. Argemtina send you third team with no legioners. The same about Germany and Brasil.
You americans still belive that world should rotate around you.

WAIT WAIT!
MLS??? NO WAY!
This is the most ridiculous league in whole the world.
And tell me please when they did play with the most powerful team in mexico???
and about its game with germany, germany didn't have all its player. They didn't have Berhof, Mattus, Henman, Helmer,...
they put the most stupid players.
Even though, in world cup 98, Iran beat you 2-1, and you were the last in your group.
Actually i live in USA, but i hate to watch MLS, because it suxxx!
I like the most italian and English leagues.
They are the most good leagues.
USA are good in American Football, Baseball, and Basketball. SOCCER, NO WAY!!!

Wait, Wait, wait...
What are you all complaining about?
Why MLS is in FIFA 2k, or Why people think MLS Sucks?
1st:
MLS is in Fifa 2k only because the game will be sold.
And maybe, it is the best league in North America ( that's why they put Korean league -- they need leagues from all continents)
And...
2Nookie:
Can I repeat?
National team is not the League!!!
You had Reyna, Stewart, Hejduk, Regis and other in you National squad!!!
These players are probably the best US players in you National squad. But they play in Europe!!!
And maybe US National team is good, and maybe MLS soccer is rising, but no people in Europe respect this league, only because you, americans have your own rules in MLS. You have shutouts, stupid clock, stupid conferences, and the most thing bugging me is
playoffs!!!
Real champion is the champion not in the playoffs, but in regular season.
Plus, you do not have 1st, 2nd, 3rd leagues, and in MLS you have just 12 teams!!!
And maybe you have some good players, like McBride, Wynalda, Ramos, Maisonaueve, Pope, Burns, Campos, Etcheverry, Agoos and others, it is only your rules that make the world angry.
Another thing that makes the world angry, is that you always think you are the best. It was like 1 1\2 years ago, when you beat Brazil, when you beat 5th German squad in February, were on 3rd place in Confederation Cup.
Plus, you call futbol soccer, and futbol ( ok, soccer) is 5th sport in your country.
For example, last year on World Cup 2night, on ESPN2, people were talking about sports in Chicago: In Chicago, there are 2 baseball teams, ones of the best in Major League Baseball, there is one basketball team, the best team in NBA that time, one hockey team, where soldouts are a common thing, one football team ( I know nothing about that ), and they said, "Hockey, baseball, basketball, football are sports which are played in USA, and soccer will never be the 1st sport in United States"

That's what I think of MLS.

Anyone agree?


[This message has been edited by Dimon (edited 09-04-1999).]

Well, Nookie is correct to point out competitive MLS teams like DC & Chicago... but that leaves a lot of other teams, most of which are not very solid or fun to watch. I've been to several New England Revolution games this year, and they are a dreadful team to watch (in large part--ironically--because they have an egomaniac former world star, Walter Zenga, as coach & goalie). Ajax played the Revolution over the summer, and even with a vastly depleted roster (thanks to trades), they made the Revolution look like grade-schoolers.

I don't know when, if ever, soccer will improve in the US, as long as most people dismiss it in favor of the more sleep-inducing baseball & US football. Soccer is popular in high school & college, but too many players seem to gravitate elsewhere once they finish school.

Ah, well... at least here in the States we can find European & Central/South American soccer on cable....

Bob

Yes, Americans, your sports are beseball, am. futbol, basketball and hockey, but not soccer.

Dimon, you do have one good point: there are still some people here in the US that reject soccer in general. (Sorry to say.) My brother is a good example of this. One time when he came over to my house, we played FIFA 96 on Sega Genesis. He didn't really want to play that, he was up for NBA Live. He humored me, but when we finished, he said, "Soccer sucks."

Another good point: the rules. Especially the shootout. If you've seen one, you'll see why fans of the MLS, me included, are petitioning in banning it. I wrote an article about six weeks ago for my website about it. I posted the address and title at another topic in this forum. (Better transfer system is the topic.)

Point #3: 12 teams. Another article, my most recent one, involves the fact that the league only has 12 teams and the need to expand further ASAFP. B.T.W. There is a 2nd and 3rd league here in the US. The 2nd is called the A-Leauge, the 3rd is called the D-3 Pro League. (A gay name if I ever heard one.) The A-League is under publicized here in the US, and the D-3 League even less. There's not much to talk about in either league, also. (The promotion/relegation issue is also pointed out in that ariticle.)

As far as Americans thinking their the best, you probably hear this from the vast majority of the counry. You won't hear it from me. I don't talk like that, even if I do earn the right to. It may sound like BS, but that's how I am. Besides, I already know American soccer doesn't compare well to that of the best in Europe and South America. It doesn't help that CONCACAF is a weak federation.

[This message has been edited by The Ikster (edited 09-05-1999).]

SEE, most of the american people do not like soccer. I went to watch a soccer match between chicago fire and Tampa bay. Actually it was my first time to go to see a MLS match. Before i arrived, i excepted to see more people, waiting in the line, to enter the stadium and see the match. But when i arrived to the stadium, man, i didn't see that much people. The whole stadium was completly empty, and the game between chicago and Tampa bay was the greatest game i ever seen, but there were no people to cheer.


[This message has been edited by soccerman (edited 09-24-1999).]

2 soccerman:
that's why MLS has expansion, not 2nd, 3rd, and other divisions: for example, if you make a team in Milawkee, no people will go on matches.
That's why they tested cities, where people like soccer.
So, these 12 teams in MLS are popular.
I know 3-4 teams, on which not that many people go.
I am talking about Dallas, Tampa Bay, Colorado, Chicago...
But some teams have alot of people going on their games.
I am talking about Kansas City, NE Revolution, San Jose, DC, Columbus.
U C, these cities don't have a lot of different sport teams, so people go on sports events they don't even know! ( well, sometimes)
So, Soccer is 5th sport in United States, and if regular american guy would have a choice going on Super Bowl, Final Four, World Series, OR World Cup final, Champions' League final, or even MLS Cup final, he would go on sports' events I listed first.

i never said we were the best. and i know US didn't face 5th team from germany. i live in germany and they were at full strength. i know they didn't have bierhof, he had retired at the time and so did klinsman and everyone else. in feb when us played deutschland(germany) there were at full strength. they were in the rebuilding proccess since germany got a new coach. remember after the world cup, most of the players retired from germany if you didn't know that.

I'd just like to say, AS SOMEONE WHO WAS BORN IN CHICAGO AND HAS LIVED HIS WHOLE LIFE IN THE US, that the MLS is really an unfortunate phenomenon. Not only do american kids gravitate towards other sports at an early age, but frankly I dont think the MLS is doing much to help that. Living here, I've seen plenty of MLS games (cause unless you have a satellite dish you rarely get to see games from Europe) and its just sad to see these clowns kicking the ball around. And because the MLS is honestly at a fairly low level, I dont think that most 10-second-attention-span americans will ever really be able to grasp the true beauty of football (I hate calling it soccer) with such a crappy example. Nookie, I've given the MLS a chance and Im sorry, man, it just doesnt cut it...

Hey americans they are saying the right things.Your sports are only basketball,baseball,hockey,football but you can't join in to soccer.That can make you so bad losers.And MLS sux,Korea sux too!

Hey, I wanna see the MLS succeed worldwide. But the idiots in the front office are doing jack sh*t to bring this on. That's probably why they hired a new commissioner.

Hey, i'm an american who lives in Argentina since 2 years old, i have the opportunitie to watch some MLS games by ESPN, all i have to say is that it sucks...but everyamerican that likes soccer should be proud of have an own league. I know that isn't at the level of a Premier League or of Calcio or Liga Primera neither, but u have to understand that those leagues exist since the 19th century, while the mls is in its 4th year (or so)So dont expect to found 3 batistutas and 3 Rivaldos per year, u have to give some time, so that the new players that arrive from colleges or other countries replace the worst players, slowly the league will become better and better, and maybe it will reach a decent level before u imagine.
So keep pushing while im downhere preparing for become the next MLS star

Hey if the MLS is in fifa2000 then the Ausssie league should be too. But the Americans have a crap league. i mean sure the USA national team is good but not the damm league. If MLS is so go why are the americans choosing to play in Europe??? I will tell ya it is because the european league is much better. Anyhow maybe the mls should be given a chance, who knows. Also John Stern plays for Trinadad and Tabago not us and he is class like Dwight Yorke(Maybe i like the americans cause Yorke is my Favourite striker but if the mls is in 2000 then so should australian league. Our teams mi9ght not be as good as international teams but we could win against us teams


Peace to all and all above
Best Wishes Troy

Yeah, soccerman!
I am Russian living in USA. And in Russia I was real good at soccer. I came here and I said I wanted to play soccer. About 5-6 players from american football school team were laughing!!!
Then I saw our soccer team! American Football players aways were making fun of them, like they were a Junior Varsity, or something. Well, I live here about 2 years now and we have got some good players in our soccer team, but still soccer ain't popular in our school. On our matches only parents and friends go. Frnce 98 made those American football misfits feel better about soccer, but still, sometimes I hear them talking how and why soccer sux.
My brother plays soccer in college ( not for the team, just for fun! ) and American football coach asked him to transfer to his team as a kicker. When my brother refused, almost all of his american friends were thinking sh*t about him.
So, it is strange, when MLS fans say let's give US a chance, when american soccer just doesn't fit at all in the world of soccer.
(why?, just read my first reply)

well, that's funny 'cause some after us beating 5'th germany team and 10'th argentinian and 6'th brazilian they claimed them best in the world. and funniest part is that they belived what they were talking about.
i saw this point of view on World wide soccer on espn. this is rediculous.

Ok question....are you guys brothers? Dimon and Evil... ??? http://www.soccergaming.com/ubb/smile.gif

Listen what i just heard here in usa. I heard that soccer is ladies sport. I swear to god that i heard this.

Actually I am not surprised to hear US believed they are the best after beating some of the top national teams. There are many reasons why soccer is not popular in US or Canada that I could probably write an essay on the topic. But the bottom line is, soccer is rather new to US, and many Americans (no offense) cannot, or at least are not used to, think of themselves as anything else but the top of the world. For example, a team who won the Super Bowl would call themselves "World Champion", same as NHL, NBA etc. So in this case it's like a "personality crash"... The game of soccer is so different that it requires lots of time build up the skills and to have fun. So I don't think it's fair to say someone sucks because a league is comperatively new. Soccer is probably the only sports that is truely universal. Those established leagues or countries should help new leagues like MLS or J-League to develop soccer, but at the same time some Americans or those anti-soccer people should open up their minds and see for themselves that... well, pizza is not the only food in the world http://www.soccergaming.com/ubb/smile.gif

During WC98, a talk show host in US was making fun of soccer, and he said: "I can't understand what's the fun of 20 people running up and down the field for 2 hours kicking a ball around." Then a week later, a sportscasters from TSN(a sports channel in Canada) said, after France got the Cup, "Here, Americans: *THIS* is what a real world champion is".

That tells you how long a way is is for soccer to be a respectful sports in North America.

[This message has been edited by Kadenz (edited 09-09-1999).]

Hey I am an American, but I can't stand the MLS. The lame penalty shootout thing is terrible. The clock ticks down. Both of these things make the MLS suck. Im from San Jose and there are plenty of teams that wish they didn't play us in a shootout. Get rid of the shootout thing and I will be an MLS fan.

I agree with you E-Dog! Why does the MLS think they have to take a sport that is so popular around the world and 'fix' it? They may not think this is a big deal, but as a person that has followed European socccer for many years, this turned me off right away and I have never been back. http://www.soccergaming.com/ubb/frown.gif

Let's not forget that the United States brought a "B" team to the Confederations Cup (Reyna and Sanneh stayed in Europe, as did Hejduk, and Pope stayed home...) and played mostly reserves against Germany (with Keller, Stewart, and several other key players on the bench). It was, objectively speaking, an American 2nd team against a German 2nd team. Any questions?!

Absolutely, Ric! I don't watch MLS because it doesn't seem like real soccer. And I cringe every time I see the MLS table, with columns such as "Shootout wins" in them. It's embarassing.

MLS didn't fix soccer, they broke it. No wonder it's a laughingstock - it's not real soccer.

I'm just glad that Fox has the two hours of Premier League each week.

I don't remember anyone saying that the us was the best in soccer, all I want is to be able to play fifa 2000 with the players that I watch on TV and in person, which is the MLS. Granted its definitely not the best league in the world but its the one us Americans have so lets make the best of it.

Hey Jonathan,

If you want to see the MLS tables if they had ties, I have some at my website. I know they are mixed in on the same pages as the regular MLS tables, but that's only for comparative reasons. Anyway, my site is http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/Hoop/6949.

If anybody else is interested in seeing these, you don't need an invitation from me.

Also, for those people that still haven't been there and/or are anti-shootout, I have an article I wrote about the subject. It's called, "San Jose 3, Chicago 2 (Or is it 2-2?)" I know I sound like a broken record advertising this over and over, but I think it's the only way to convey my thoughts about a subject that about 95% of the world soccer fans agree on. (At least 95%.)

Also, Jonathan, don't forget that later in the seasons, Fox also shows a game from the Serie A and the Bundesliga in the mid-afternoon. At least they do here in New York. (At this rate, anything is better than the Metrostars.)

Hi Ikster:
Thanks for the info but could you please post your URL again? It doesn't seem to work...

You probably tried visiting when I was making updates. The URL is still in the last message that I posted.

MLS is THE worst league of all in F2K.However EA has chosen to name the hole game FIFA 2000:Major League Soccer!!!(MLS).What could even a simple soccer fan say about such an insult to soccer!!!!!!

First of all Jimmious, you're allowed the opinion of the MLS being a bad league. You are even correct when comparing it to the strong leagues in Europe and even the ones of South America. I am not a MLS fan myself although, and can decipher a stupid comment from an intelligent one.

You are incorrect in saying it is the worst league that will be included in FIFA 2000. There are many leagues in the world better than the MLS that will not be in FIFA 2000. If that is your point, it is correct. But, there are also leagues in FIFA 2000 that are not as strong as the MLS. Period.

I don't follow the MLS because of the silly rules they had to invent. So I am not giving this opinion as a true MLS fan. Actually, I follow the Serie A and have a good grasp on the strengths of the many leagues around the world.

And on your second comment... If you'd read the information we've been posting at Soccer Gaming and FIFA 2000 Online for the past couple of months, you'd know the title 'FIFA 2000: Major League Soccer' is the American title to the game. The European title will remain 'FIFA 2000.'


[This message has been edited by Ric (edited 09-15-1999).]

News on the MLS rules:

At halftime of the U.S. Open Cup final last night, they did an interview with Commissioner Don Garber. One of the issues addressed was the rules (the clock and the shootout, specifically). He is aware that the fans are displeased (putting it lightly) with these rules and will meet again to vote on the issue, sometime before November 21. It looks that they may get voted down.

That's good news... I would become more interested in the MLS immediately if they played with the same rules as the rest of the world.

I don't understand why Americans (most of them) dont like football it is the most exciting sport in the world.Unlke american football where i was falling asleep while watching it.I dont understand why such a dull sport can get such big crowds in america

I agree about that... I'm one of the few Americans who actually calls the beautiful game football instead of soccer (although I use the word soccer if people are confused). It's the only sport I play, and the only sport I watch at all...

As for my opinion on MLS, I think based on the strength of the top teams (DC United, Chicago, LA, Columbus, and Colorado), it's a legitimate league that deserves to be in FIFA 2000. HOWEVER, some of the rules do need to be changed. I definitely disagree with shootouts. I think the countdown clock is a good thing, though.

Elninho, can I ask why you think the countdown clock is a good thing? Seriously, I have no opinion on this. I'm just trying to form an opinion of my own.

I SAW THE GAMES BETWEEN USA AND GERMANY, BOTH OF THEM, AND I ACTUALLY THINK USA HAS INCREASED THEIR LEVEL A LITTLE, BUT STILL NOT THE BEST, I MEAN, GERMANY WASN'T PLAYING WITH THEIR BEST TEAM, USA WAS, USA'S BEST TEAM IN HISTORY..., BESIDES, CHICAGO DEFEATED TOLUCA 1-0 OK, 1ST OF ALL, IT IS NOT MEXICO'S BEST TEAM, IT IS THE ATLAS...2ND. POINT, CHICAGO PAYED TOLUCA TO WIN, JUST AS MEXICO DID WITH BRAZIL IN "CONFEDERACIONES CUP", AND ARGENTINA DID WHEN THEY PLAYED IN ARGENTINA, WHAT HAPPENED WHEN ARG AND BRA PLAYED IN BRAZIL...HUH?
4-2...HAHAHAHAHA..., AND NOW I LEAVE U WITH THIS... BRAZIL WON'T WON NEX WORLD CUP... THINK ABOUT IT... THINK ABOUT WHY... THINK ABOUT WHO WILL... HAHAHAHA...

Ikster - I like the countdown clock because it prevents the adding on of extra stoppage time just because the referee feels like it. I saw the US-Argentina match, and I was appalled to notice that even though the 4th official's board read 2 minutes at the end of the first half, and the ref didn't blow the whistle for, not 2, not 3, not even 4 minutes after the end of the regular 45 minutes, but 4:50 into stoppage time. During stoppage time, there were no incidents justifying that. (I really shouldn't be complaining, the US team had the best of play during that time, but I don't think it was right either.) A countdown clock, as long as the referee stops it at the appropriate times, does not allow such travesties.

HINO - I am disgusted by your lack of decorum. Whenever you see a result you don't like, it seems, you accuse the teams of bribery and match-fixing. I suppose the fact that Atlas hasn't won every match so far this season is due to match-fixing as well... The HAHAHAs don't help either. Typing in all caps doesn't make your argument valid, so if you're going to argue, at least argue coherently and reasonably. We don't need any more of that kind of post, we have quite enough already.

About your points:

1) The US played their first team in the first win over Germany, but the Confederations Cup win was with a reserve side that didn't include Reyna, Sanneh, Hejduk, Pope, or Keller and had several other top players coming on only as subs. Get your facts straight.

2) Chicago never played Toluca.

3) Fine, the best team in Mexico is Atlas. Funny, Atlas seems to have one of the worst records against MLS opposition (no wins in their last 6 matches or something like that) in the entire Mexican league - Leon, Cruz Azul, Toluca come to mind as actually being able to beat MLS teams most of the time. Atlas is holding on to first place by a thread in probably the weakest group in the Mexican league, so don't say they're necessarily the best. Necaxa's doing better, and in a much stronger group too.