EXCLUSIVE: Manchester United and Liverpool have joined a plot by Europe's most powerful clubs to turn the Champions League into a virtual closed shop.

Soccernet can reveal that the G14 group has demanded a guarantee that its members gain automatic entry to the competition, effectively freezing out potential challengers such as Arsenal, Chelsea and Leeds United.

England's G14 representatives are understood to have endorsed the plan, which would give them Champions League places as long as they had qualified three times in the previous five seasons.

Signalling the seriousness of their intent, the exclusive group, which includes AC Milan, Real Madrid, Bayern Munich and Ajax, has also recruited to its cause the UEFA executive formerly in charge of rule changes.

Thomas Kurth was the governing body's high-profile head of club competitions until he defected to advise the G14 clubs on all future projects two weeks ago.

It was the G14 clubs who forced the radical facelift of the Champions Cup to include the runners-up of the major domestic leagues as well as the enlarged format of two group stages.

A source close to the association's powerbrokers said that they are expected to get their way again.

'UEFA has bought them off for a couple of years but, like bad bullies, G14 always comes back for more,' he told Soccernet.

'It will probably succeed in getting its own way over this issue as well but even if it doesn't achieve all of its demands it will force some concessions elsewhere.

'UEFA has given in to it on almost everything else that it has asked for and there's no reason to believe that this time will be any different.'

The system advocated by G14 will mean that it will be almost impossible to budge any of its number from the Champions League, enabling the clubs to benefit most from the huge sums which accompany participation.

At the moment a successful run in the competition can account for up to 50 per cent of a club's profit in a season. Recruiting Kurth is seen as a master-stroke since the friction which has built up between the old guard and the G14 had been forecast to end in confrontation.

Kurth is seen as the conduit to ensuring that the new format is introduced with the minimum of resistance as soon as next season.

'Kurth's reputation and his contacts in UEFA should certainly help them achieve their demands without the same aggravation as before,' said Soccernet's source. This latest assault on Europe's top competition will, however, be met with protest from all quarters.

Is Juventus in it?

No other site has confirmed this though - I think the idea is completely rediculous and, as you well know, I'm Mersey Red. Besides, I don't think Arsenal, Chelsea and Leeds would stand idly by, especially since Arsenal have a hell of a lot more money than Liverpool do.

Much ado about nothing. Let the top clubs have their way. We do want to see the top clubs play against each other, do we not? Just my opinion, and its free from bias, having watched Arsenal embarass themselves in the recent past, they have no locus standi to run their mouth on any proposal. Arsenal ought to keep their mouth shut, let Leeds run theirs (which will create a tsunami of derision), and hope that Mr Super Manager proves that he can compete in Europe.

We are getting fatigued Mr Wenger, and your contract is soon voidable. We know you are going elsewhere, so please provide us with "real" European silverware before you leave.

I dont do pro bono work, Arsene, but take a freeco......leave Sir Alex alone! He has won enough trophies to make him immune from criticsm; and by no means are we Arsenal fans going to accept Wenger going to Man Utd..

Just reading the rumour that Wenger may go there is pissing me off.

By the way, was that Liverpool I read in this Champions League conspiracy. I suppose if you can't get in through the front door, you might as well bribe the kitchen staff

LOL

Antithesis, for what reason (appart from me http://www.soccergaming.com/ubb/biggrin.gif ) do you hate Liverpool FC so much?

This article (which appeared in the Daily Mail) was written by the least reliable journalist in Britain. According to his stories last week, Real Madrid has already sold McManaman to Boro, and he famously reported an exclusive that Shearer had signed a contract with Man Utd - by the time it was on news-stands, his 2am transfer to Newcastle had been announced. If this happens, I will eat Ric's keyboard.

Ketchup?

Okay mr Anti' i love both chelsea and arsenal'thesis, Mr wenger is most likely the reason we've had such a great run in recent years. Or would you rather have old georgie back ? Yes, hmmmm...love to end up fighting a midtable battle again.
And I'm sure if Arsenal competed in the cup winners cup they would've won it, cause there's hardly ever any good teams in there.Thank goodness that has been discontinued. As for CL, so maybe we haven't done as well as we could've and should've, but that only put's us on par with the greats of Rangers, Celtic, Ajax and such. Mr Wenger has been brilliant at Arsenal, his purchases , player selling and achievements show that. I'm sure you would rather want a manager who'll buy any piece of crap ( aka Sutton , pay them ridiculous salaries and who will destroy any kind of passion in the Arsenal game.
As for the main topic, it ain't gonna happen. Much like the super euro league of a few years ago, or celtic and rangers breaking away and playing against Ajax and feyenoord and some spanish teams and blah blah blah.

If Shearer signs for Man U, I will jump out my window.

I think what Drinky mentioned was when Shearer was at Blackburn and could have gone to Man U or Newcastle. He turned down Man U.That's why you hear;

"Oh, Alan Shearer, you joined the wrong United and you won **** all!"

Sorry. I always thought that was funny every time I heard it - Sheringham's was even better, I knew a lot of Gooners who LOVED him...until United won the treble. http://www.soccergaming.com/ubb/frown.gif

Don't worry, Shearer loves Newcastle, he'll never leave.



[This message has been edited by Neutral (edited 08-15-2000).]

Starts the season of discontent. Hate is irrational, so I have no reasons to explain mine for LFC; save for my Grandfather's and father's continuous ridicule of that team in my youth...........anyway, its time to paddle through Canoe's irrationality.

The concept of being grateful to someone for doing their job is lost on me. Sutton! Why pick on Sutton, still looks a good striker to me. Canoe, stop kissing Wenger's Armani lapels, he is being paid to win the league; to manage Arsenal deep into the Champions League. He is not giving Arsenal a hand, he is an employee with a mandate. Frankly, second place is a home i'd rather not live in too long(if I can do better). Arsenal have bought the property it seems.

"The concept of being grateful to someone for doing their job is lost on me....Sutton, still looks a good striker " Hmm..Sutton get's paid to do a job, and although he doesn't do it well you still have praise for him ? Now that concept is lost on me.
But let's have a look at how badly Mr Wenger has done. League finishes : 3rd, 1st, 2nd and 2nd. One Uefa cup final appearance, one FA cup win. So in four years we've been in the top 3 in the EPL. Only Man utd can boast a better record than that.
And even if Arsene left Arsenal today, and took over from Fergie ( due to whatever reason ), I would wish him well and remember him fondly. Why ? Cause although he worked for Arsenal, I think he was an exceptional worker. He kept the team going through some hard times, showing his leadership in this respect. He's admired by those that play for him now and those that played for him at other clubs. He has shown shrewd business skill in terms of buying and selling players. He's built up and bought a couple of good youngsters to ensure Arsenal remain competitive in years to come. He's turned around player's careers and inspired them to greater heights.
So, if the concept of being grateful to someone for doing their job exceptionally well and , in my humble opinion, better than 96.728% of the other managers out there, then I can not help you see this at all.

PS - How does this differ from companies paying bonuses to employees for good performances ? Is that not the company being grateful for someone doing their job (well?) ?

Who is in the G-14 anyways, Man Utd and Liverpool from England, and Ajax are all I know, does anyone know the rest?

I can reinforce my point, but....yours is valid, so why contest valid points against each other. One thing bothers me, I sense you think I am a Chelsea supporter foremost, which probably isn't true. If those two met each other I would not care who wins unless a loss for either assists another team,decisively, to win the League.
People also think I support Man Utd., because I and Keegan know Cole is the best striker in England. Let's try not to be too tribal in football support.

On a local note.Trinidad and Tobago play Panama on Wednesday. A victory for T&T would almost certainly allow us passage to the final group stage of Concacaf World Cup Qualifiers. England better use their half of the Man Utd strike force if they want to join us in 2002.

Antithesis,
I think Sheringham is a bit beyond his International days http://www.soccergaming.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

Sorry, couldn't resist - that's an argument we could go on about for ages - but I guess from my standpoint if I'm wrong, and Andy scores a truckload for England then it wouldn't be so bad. (Far from it actually!) I knew you supported Chelsea and Arsenal as you mentioned it a few months ago.

Btw, I think Jimmy (or Jimbo as Vialli calls him) is going to be leading scorer in the EPL, and if Fowler (Mr. Injury) plays more than 25 games I believe he will be second.

Who are your picks for leading scorer(s) and the top 5? (I already know your first two)

That was your funniest retort to date.
Top scorer this year is going to be difficult to predict. My guess would be an individual who has a point to prove (Cole, Owen, Hasselbaink), injury free(Cole, Hasselbaink), and fewer international obligations (Hasselbaink).
Therefore:
Hasselbaink
Henry
Cole
Shearer
Owen
Yorke
DiCanio
Phillips
Collymore
Fowler

I am sure I have omitted an "obvious" choice


Man Utd
Liverpool
Chelsea
Leeds
Arsenal

I think Arsenal slips to the bottom of the top teams. I don't think Vieira has proven himself capable of being the lead midfielder in a 4-3-1-2, and their does not appear to be that defensive bloc in midfield without Petit. Just my opinion, but Kanu, Bergkamp, Pires, and Wiltord seem to be surplus personnel. I said it last season and I'll say it again.....Arsenal will do well to sell either Kanu or Bergkamp.

Well, if you pick on Sutton, let's see here -- was it Sutton's fault that he was bought for 10 million pounds from Blackburn? No, it wasn't. It's like for Manu to buy a player from a Conference team, pay him 100,000 pounds per week, and pick on him, saying that he is far from his potential, that he doesn't do his job, etc.

HELLO,

It was %100 Chelsea's fault that they signed Sutton, not Sutton's fault that Chelsea signed him and him a sh!tload of money.


think about it

When do you remember a youngster came from Arsenal's youth system and played reguraly for Arsenal??? The only thing I rememeber is that Arsenal, like Chelsea, buying foreigners for their first 11 squad for the past years (Liverpool and Newcastle did pretty much the same, although it wasn't first 11).

Well, Chelsea has Morris and Harley, but what does Arsenal have? Sh!tload of money? That's all?


This is what pissed me off for the past 4-5 years -- big clubs buying foreigners and not developing their own talent (not only Arsenal and Chelsea -- Inter, Milan, Lazio, Barca, Bayern, others).

Look again;

Wenger has been recently been playing Ashley Cole, Jermaine Pennant and Paolo Vernazza. Cole played left back last year on loan at Crystal Palace and I have a friend who's a Palace fan says he's brilliant (and apparently he played very well for Arsenal in the recent tourney in Amsterdam). While Jermaine Pennant is one of the brightest prospects in the country and played a few games last year. (Rhys Weston and Brian McGowan are also in the first team squad)

As for Chelsea Vialli had Neil Clemment and John Terry in his team at certain points in the season along with Morris and Harley.

And don't even try to start about Liverpool not cultivating any talent that comes through their academies....



[This message has been edited by Neutral (edited 08-16-2000).]

i haven't said that Liverpool isn't having anyone from their academy. But 2-3 games from 2 youth players? That is a bit off, isn't it for such great and famous club like Arsenal? And Jermaine Pennant is a player from Notts Co., I think. Few games isn't much. As for Liverpool, the players that play regurarily are Owen, Fowler, Gerrard, and other England's talent like Heskey. But a lot others are foreigners.


Let's take manchester United. Philip Neville, Gary Neville, Paul Scholes, Nicky Butt, Ryan Giggs, David Beckham. That is a lot of youngsters, the same in Leeds.


I am pretty sure that the only Englishmen that will play in Chelsea next year will be Wise and Harley, with Morris on the bench. That is not normal.

You're right about Pennant. But for United, Butt only plays when Keane is injured or suspended, while Phil is 3rd choice LB behind Irwin and Silvestre. That just leaves 4 youth acadamy players - Beckham, Giggs, Scholes and Gary Neville.

I don't really see a problem with the amount of 'foreign' players in the premiership. Not every player that comes out of a youth academy is premiership class, and most foreiners are cheaper and better players than British ones. (6 million for Nick Barmby or 6 million for World Cup and European Championships Winner Robert Pires?)
I don't think it hurts English youth either - look at Italy, their league is packed with non-Italian players, but their national team is much better than England's.

Thanks Neutral, you almost said what I wanted to say about the youngsters. Also, do not forget Taylor ( England u/18 goalie ) and also Matthew Upson, who, if not for a very unfortunate injury last season, would've been an Arsenal regular by now.
And if Silvinho gets injured or suspended then AShley Cole will play, so I guess in terms of that he's slightly better off than P Neville.

Russian rocket, I never picked on Sutton, I said Arsene isn't a manager that would buy any piece of crap ( Sutton ). Therefor, I was implying that it is indeed mr vialli that should take the blame for that, or Chelsea if you prefer, for paying 10mill for an average striker.

Antithesis, if you don't think Vieira is capable of leading the midfield battle for Arsenal then you didn't watch too many games last season. Petit was a shadow of the player he was in the season before, and if not for paddy, we would've been in deep trouble. I also don't think Arsenal plays a 4-3-1-2, but more a 4-4-1-1, or perhaps a 4-2-2-1-1 if you wanna see it as that. Petit will be missed, but not nearly as much as everybody reckons. We do have Lauren, Grimandi, and even Parlour can come in with Ljungberg taking the wide role.
And no, Pires will play wide on the left, taking over from overmars. So he ain't surplus. I must question Arsenal about wanting to buy wiltord, cause only through injury will Arsenal use all the strikers if he is bought.
Arsenal won't do well to sell either bergie or Kanu. It's almost like saying Chelsea will do well to sell Flo or Zola now that they have Jimmy

Soccernet make up some stories sometimes ya know?

greetz
Phil

Canoe - doh! I can't believe I forgot Upson! He's an excellent prospect - quite possibly the next Tony Adams.

Yeah, sorry guys, I forgot Upson too -- but he is from Luton, but it's ok, you know, for Pennant too. But Upson is the only one to play in the team regurarily, well, being the sub, etc.


But it's not the amount of academy players that bug me, it's the amount of foreigners. Yeah, foregners are cheaper, but that doesn't mean that teams have to get them and only them. Teams like Manchester Utd. or Leeds Utd. have a great balance of foreigners, English talent and their own academy talent, although Manu gets more and more foreigners every year. And those 4 Manchester's players overshowd Ashleigh Cole, Taylor, Upson, Pennant. Manu has lots more players like those who just lay their a$$es in reserves (Healy, Chadwick, Culkin, Clegg, Greening, Notman, O'Shea, Wallwork, Twiss, Wilson, then those guys that left, Heckinbottom and other one to some Scottish club). Having youngsters like those doesn't mean that the team is based on them. Manu is based on their academy players. Liverpool is 1/2 on 1/2. Leeds is based too. Chelsea isn't. Arsenal isn't.


That is why I have sympathy to Manchester United and a small one to Leeds.

Point taken Russian rocket, but do remember that the Arsenal lads mentioned are just that, they are still young. Correct me if I'm wrong, but their ages are as follow Pennant(16), Cole(17), Vernazza(18),Taylor(18).
And yes, Man utd have had great youngsters come through, but our youngsters aren't ripe yet, and Arsene will be wary of trying them out if he doesn't feel that they are ready.
The only thing this tells me is that Graham never really cared that much for the youngster to really develop or even buy them. So it will be hard for Arsenal to be successful by trying to use 1/2 academy players, who I think should start featuring more this season, but only as backup.