Woman Fatally Shot in Head in Va.
Tue Oct 15, 2:07 AM ET
By MATTHEW BARAKAT, Associated Press Writer

FALLS CHURCH, Va. (AP) - A woman was shot in the head and killed Monday night as she and her husband loaded packages into their car outside a Home Depot in suburban Washington. Police were investigating whether it was the latest shooting by a sniper already blamed for eight deaths in the past 12 days.
Police swiftly closed down highways in the area, about 10 miles west of the nation's capital, creating massive gridlock as they searched for a van from which the shooter might have fired.

Fairfax County Police Chief Tom Manger said authorities were on the lookout for a cream-colored Chevy Astro van that was missing a left rear tail light and had a silver roof ladder. Virginia State Police said the van was last seen traveling east on Route 50 from Falls Church. Interstates 66 and I-95 are nearby.

Witnesses at some of the earlier shootings also reported seeing a white or cream-colored van or truck.

The woman was felled by a single shot about 9:15 p.m., authorities said. All the other deaths in the sniper spree were also caused by one shot, and two people also were wounded by a single bullet.

The Maryland task force investigating the sniper attacks was conferring with Fairfax County authorities to see if Monday's victim was the sniper's ninth.

"It's too early to tell at this time (if the shooting is linked), however we are working it and investigating it with that potential in mind," Manger said.

The woman was shot in the head as she and her husband loaded packages into their car's trunk, said Ellen Qualls, a spokeswoman for Virginia Gov. Mark R. Warner. Someone fired the fatal shot from a van, she said.

"There's some pretty decent eyewitness information that maybe we haven't had in some of the previous shootings," Qualls said.

Immediately after the shooting, the victim's body lay under a sheet 30 yards in front of the store entrance.

Police were still scouring the parking lot for evidence and interviewing witnesses early Tuesday. There were a number of people in the parking lot when the shooting occurred, Manger said.

"More than anything else, I wished I was outside so I could identify this guy," one woman who had been stuck inside the Home Depot as authorities closed it told CNN. "I am used to seeing blood, but this amount of blood shocked me."

The Home Depot is located in the Seven Corners Shopping Center, a 450,000-square-foot strip shopping center with a parking garage.

Monday's killing occurred at one of northern Virginia's busiest intersections, where major arteries come together to form seven corners. Clint Van Zandt, a former FBI (news - web sites) profiler who lives in Fredericksburg, Va., said the location sets the slaying apart from the others.

"This is not bold, this is brazen," he said. "It's a much more highly congested area, even under the cover of darkness."

Kristin Reed, a supervisor at the Barnes & Noble bookstore in the sprawling strip mall, said six employees were locked inside the store for a time with an FBI agent.

"Cops and cops and more cops," Reed said of the scene outside. Shopper Raymond Massas said he "heard one shot. Not very loud, like a snap. After that I heard people start panicking."

Two police helicopters circled the scene as bystanders looked on.

"It hasn't been this frightening since 9/11," said Bob Bakley as he stared across Route 50.

Added Abdel Elkheshisn: "We thought, 'It's in Maryland. It's not here, it's far away."

The sniper had shot 10 people in all in the killing spree that began Oct. 2. On Friday morning, a 53-year-old Philadelphia man was gunned down in Spotsylvania County, Va., as he pumped gas. The killer had gone two straight weekends without an attack.

Earlier Monday, the longest lull yet in the Washington sniper's killing spree brought little relief as jittery residents flooded police with calls upon hearing car backfire, firecrackers or breaking glass.

"Everyone is edgy," said Montgomery County Police Chief Charles Moose, who is heading the investigation. "People are hearing things that may normally be overlooked."

President Bush (news - web sites) said the "cold-blooded" attacks have made him sick to his stomach. "I weep for those who have lost their loved ones," he said. "The idea of moms taking their kids to school and sheltering them from a potential sniper attack is not the America that I know."

Four police squad cars rushed to a Silver Spring car dealership Monday after the window of a customer's BMW shattered when he closed the door. The man dialed 911, thinking a bullet broke the glass.

"He had no idea what happened — he was just freaked out," said David Earhardt, the dealership's service manager.

"People hear a noise, they're going to call — they want to put an end to this just like we do," said Prince William County, Va., Detective Dennis Mangan, whose department brought in a helicopter to search the woods before determining a reported gunshot was just a car backfiring.

Authorities in Baltimore, meanwhile, seized a white van and found an assault rifle, sniper manual and ammunition similar to the .223 bullets used in attacks that have killed eight people and wounded two others, WBAL-TV reported.

MSNBC reported that a tarot card was found in the van and a sign on the dashboard read "Gihad in America." A tarot card was also found at one of the shootings.

The van's owner was questioned Monday night by police and released with no charges filed.

"At this time, the task force believes this is not related to our sniper incidents," said Louise Marthens, a Montgomery County police spokeswoman.

Profilers said a long break could suggest the sniper was trying to outsmart police and change routine.

"Falling into a pattern is falling into a trap," said Robert K. Ressler, a former FBI profiler who helped investigators track killers such as Jeffrey Dahmer. "People this deep into aberrant behavior aren't just going to hang it up and call it quits."

Many schools in the region remained under lockdown Monday, meaning outdoor recess and physical education classes were canceled, and students were kept indoors all day.

"I'm looking around for every white van I see," said Richard Spears, who was mowing grass at James Monroe High School in Fredericksburg, Va. "It makes you a little leery."

Moose said people can now write as well as call with their tips. He gave an address: P.O. Box 7875, Gaithersburg, Md., 20898-7875.

Federal and local investigators refuse to discuss any details of the manhunt. But they have logged some consistencies: the killer favors suburban gas stations; takes down each victim with a single bullet; and, judging from the tarot card left at one of the shootings, appears to enjoy taunting police. It read: "Dear Policeman, I am God."
This is such a sad story, biggest serial killer since the Son of Sam:mad:

it makes you ask yourself what has the world become ?

it sucks that nobody feels safe anymore anywhere :(

i feel more then safe in tassie, for the fact that nothing ever and never will happen ;) :o

There's just one thing i'm wondering, what's this guy doing shooting housewives and college students. He should be in Baghdad looking for that asshole Saddam. If the most advanced country in the world still can't lay a finger on him what hope have the Iraqis got of catching him.

Originally posted by Krypton X
There's just one thing i'm wondering, what's this guy doing shooting housewives and college students. He should be in Baghdad looking for that asshole Saddam. If the most advanced country in the world still can't lay a finger on him what hope have the Iraqis got of catching him.

Y'know, that's a very interesting comment... When they do catch him, they should do that...

But Saddam is probably living in some top secret nuclear bunker anyway...

Plus he has like 4 doubles..:confused:

Originally posted by hermolt
Plus he has like 4 doubles..:confused:



More like 1000. He ain't stupid.........:D :rolleyes: :f***:

This person must be off their head.

I saw some street interviews with people in and around Maryland/DC and one woman said, 'it's like Sept 11th all over again'. Can't believe how some people think. Still, must be a bit scary living there at the moment.

Hope they catch him.

I read that this guy also left notes for the police, it`s like he is challenging them. The note says " Dear Mr.Policeman, I am God ". That guy is really out of his head.

That guy is off his head?

It could be guys...........


People who will get the insane stamp.



Is there a death penalty in Washington? Is this person(s) deserving? They gotta be insane.

Originally posted by monkee
This person must be off their head.

I saw some street interviews with people in and around Maryland/DC and one woman said, 'it's like Sept 11th all over again'. Can't believe how some people think. Still, must be a bit scary living there at the moment.

Hope they catch him.

I think she probably means the way the security is; in fact, the security is worse than Sept. 11. High School Sports events have been cancelled for the last few weeks, and the seasons are in jeopardy because no one wants to go outside. That's one example of how people in DC are having their lives changed.

i basically live in falls church.... i was there, at that shopping center 3 days ago.....

that guy(s) is a psycho, and the randomness of the shootings is what makes ppl panic...

whats so weird about it, is that its not 1 person.... so how did these people get together like that? i mean...... there were a lot of serial killers, but to actually team up with someone and do that crap? :confused:

i always thought it was funny how ppl are scared of him...... come on! the odds of him shootin you are not very big.... but now, that the thought that he probably went by my house.... thats freaky :o

This is some crazy dude here, sort takes freedom off the U.S sort of making fun of the U.S, man y cant they catch them, but the U.S is good in catching mexican immigtrants but not this guy come on!:f***:

Originally posted by monkee
This person must be off their head.

I saw some street interviews with people in and around Maryland/DC and one woman said, 'it's like Sept 11th all over again'. Can't believe how some people think. Still, must be a bit scary living there at the moment.

Hope they catch him.


how can they link that with this??
why is everything being linked to sept 11?


also this guy is soo crazy that hes driving around in this bigg truck and he shoots someone lets say at 3rd street two days later he comes to 5th street and shoots someone there two block away!! how can they not catch him?

thats what im asking myself Yavuz... "how can they not catch him?"

they must be pretty well organized to get away with it! on Friday after the shooting, they blocked the traffic like every way that they could go.....they stoped every white van.. and they still didnt get them (:/).... same last with last night!

i think people are too focused on cream/white chevy astro vans, they probably use it only for the "shooting part" and then one of them goes to a different car, takes all the stuff wif him... and then, even if the police stop that van.... theres nofin in it

This man...is a dickhead.

He is a maniac and is certainly missing something up stairs!!

You never know, some weirdoes get sucked into games like GTA2. Simple minded people that don't know the difference between fantasy and reality! :crazyboy:

I hate him, cause he's getting off on it right now, getting a buzz like he's some sort of big man, watching the TV, listening to the radio on all the reports about him...

He doesn't have an aim of people, he won't stop killing and will shoot himself when it's over. :kader: (dunno, just a vision!).

What a w*nka for getting into this sh*t. If he has life problems, he should go else where, but killing inncoent people is just NOT right and is sooooooooooooo f*cking evil. :f***:

Sorry about my jokey behaviour. :crazyboy: But I really do feel for those families that have lost close friends and relatives. :(

Here in England just near where I live (Leeds, Armley) some guy stabbed his own brother in the kneck...something to do with drugs.! Damn horrible, how could someone kill their Bro??

Nick Clubman

I have a feeling this is an act of terrorism, or is being committed by terrrorist sympathizers...I don't think it's a serial killer at all.

this actually makes me think of people in Israel, and the suicide bombers....

u fear it, and u never know Where and When its gonna happen :(....

These are just parts of the article (AOL News) :

FALLS CHURCH, Va. (Oct. 15) - An FBI terrorism analyst was identified Tuesday as the ninth person killed by the Washington-area sniper, shot in the head in an attack investigators say has yielded the most detailed clues yet.

Franklin, a 47-year-old mother of two grown children, was killed Monday night as she and her husband loaded packages into their car outside a Home Depot store

Franklin recently had a double mastectomy following breast cancer and was still in physical therapy at the time of her death, according to her friend Paul Hulseberg. He called her courageous.

Robert Young, a Washington construction worker, returned to the shopping center Tuesday to talk with police. He said he had heard a muffled gunshot and saw a white van the night before.

Young said as he backed his truck out of his parking spot, a white Astro van with two men inside tried to turn into his lane. He said the driver appeared very agitated to find his way blocked and instead drove by a neighboring Chinese restaurant and out of sight.

***Young described the driver as a short man of slight build who appeared to be Mideastern. He said, ''I got a good look at the guy.''***

------------------------------------------------------------

-so the sniper is middleastern, according to the witness. it looks like this is a terrorist act.

it was night.... dark..... i dont see how he could tell if he was middleeastern or white... it could be true, but i doubt it. there were many witnesses, and FBI are workin on a sketch... it will probably be released soon.

it doesnt seem like a foreign terrorist attack... it terrorizes people, so it is a terror act, but i dont think its the kind of terrorism people tend to think about, like Al Qaeda and stuff.

terrorists like Bin Laden's friends, dont like to play games like that... why would they kill 11 people in two weeks, if they could send a suicide bomber somewhere and kill 100 or more at once? or send 2 suicide bombers? or 3?

anything is possible, but its a weird technique for middle eastern terrorists (:/)

but then if its not them.... i really find it hard to believe, that 2 bastards decided to team up like that.... 1 psycho i could understand, but 2?

this thing is strange :confused:

Yeah, I just heard about the descriptions on CNN.....it's starting point in the terrorism direction isn't it? I think the fact that it's more than one person working together would suggest that it probably isn't your typical serial killer psycho, who from what I've read tend to be loners and preffer to have more face to face interaction with their victems..

yea terorists dont mess with "small stuff" like that supposedly

Originally posted by xxxFLYERxxx


-so the sniper is middleastern, according to the witness. it looks like this is a terrorist act.

that dont mean jack, thats like saying all muslims in America are terrorists or because of your president all americans are narrow small minded d*ckheads (youre stereotyping thats bad almost as bad as any potential terrorist)............

we all posted at the same time (H)

almost :shades:

cool isnt it? no? ok, fine (:/)

thats so freaky look at the times... it was like that 311 debate a while back and look who started it FLYER again :)

Originally posted by zul-aid
that dont mean jack, thats like saying all muslims in America are terrorists or because of your president all americans are narrow small minded d*ckheads (youre stereotyping thats bad almost as bad as any potential terrorist)............


Terrorism. Could be internal terrorism...... an American disgruntled about something or rather, you know stuff that nutcases are angry about.


Do you have to be Islamic to be a terrorist????? :confused:

Originally posted by Juventus_theres_next_year



Do you have to be Islamic to be a terrorist????? :confused:

Thats what i meant... With flyers comments he (unintensionally and in his own opinion) said that the driver was middle-eastern which somehow proves the snipers a 'terrorist'. Yeah the facts do look like its terrorists, but thats not a fact thats a stereotype plain and simple (i know you probably didnt mean to say it flyer but it came out that way and thats what it sounded to me).

Originally posted by zul-aid
that dont mean jack, thats like saying all muslims in America are terrorists or because of your president all americans are narrow small minded d*ckheads (youre stereotyping thats bad almost as bad as any potential terrorist)............

That's what I was gonna say. :) It could be terrorism, as shinji said, if there's two people working together it's more likely to be organised terror than a serial killer.

Originally posted by monkee
That's what I was gonna say. :) It could be terrorism, as shinji said, if there's two people working together it's more likely to be organised terror than a serial killer.

What about Fred and Rosemary West? (Just fer arguments sake..;))

Originally posted by hermolt
What about Fred and Rosemary West? (Just fer arguments sake..;))

Good point. I just feel that it'd be more likely that they weren't serial killers because I don't think that a serial killer would kill their victims in full view of other people leaving themselves little time for an escape from the scene.

Originally posted by monkee
Good point. I just feel that it'd be more likely that they weren't serial killers because I don't think that a serial killer would kill their victims in full view of other people leaving themselves little time for an escape from the scene.

by the looks of things these guys have got plenty of time, they always escape

Originally posted by zul-aid
by the looks of things these guys have got plenty of time, they always escape

Indeed they do. Although it seems that they had a close call last night.

I suppose I just feel that it's too impersonal to be your 'typical serial killer'.

It doesn't matter in the end, they have to catch whoever's doing it before they murder more people.

Originally posted by zul-aid
that dont mean jack, thats like saying all muslims in America are terrorists or because of your president all americans are narrow small minded d*ckheads (youre stereotyping thats bad almost as bad as any potential terrorist)............

i said "it looks like" a terrorist act. i never said it is.

for the love of god. :kader:

a TERORRIST act doesnt mean the TERORRIST hasss to be muslim or middle eastern. there are domestic TERORRISTS too u know ex: timothy mcvay so just because theyre saying terrorist doesnt mean Muslims. (hopefully)

Originally posted by Sukur54
a TERORRIST act doesnt mean the TERORRIST hasss to be muslim or middle eastern. there are domestic TERORRISTS too u know ex: timothy mcvay so just because theyre saying terrorist doesnt mean Muslims. (hopefully)

Exactly flyer you had some side comment saying that i witness saw him and he looked middle eastern which more proves that the guy is a terrorist, and maybe your right (so far it looks like you are) but that is still stereotyping and would have caused you alot of grief, in a way I agreed with what you said, but not how you said it - The guy could have been an egyptian delivering flowers, and the sniper could be an american.

This could also be the polices problem thinking that this is a terrorist attack and that they would be stoping only middle easterns driving white vans - who knows

the mofo struck again!

he left some message, with a phone number in it.

i dont think Al Qaeda or anyfin would try contactin the police.....

they found his truck its was rented from some company

Originally posted by Sukur54
they found his truck its was rented from some company

i dont think so...

that is some false rumor where did u hear that? :confused:

news

Originally posted by zul-aid
Exactly flyer you had some side comment saying that i witness saw him and he looked middle eastern which more proves that the guy is a terrorist, and maybe your right (so far it looks like you are) but that is still stereotyping and would have caused you alot of grief, in a way I agreed with what you said, but not how you said it - The guy could have been an egyptian delivering flowers, and the sniper could be an american.

This could also be the polices problem thinking that this is a terrorist attack and that they would be stoping only middle easterns driving white vans - who knows

this witness account has been found to have been false, the guy made it up. back to the beginning me thinks.

one suspect has been arrested in Virginia, a SWAT team has surrounded a telephone box...

there has been another shooting?! :mad: a man was shot at a bus stop in the chest, what the hell is goin on! :(

The FBI want YOUR theories:

http://www.abcnews.go.com/sections/us/DailyNews/armchairprofiling021022.html

so go on, give 'em a helping hand.

They wanna go start a fight with a foriegn country about terrorism yet they cant stop it in their own country

NEW DEVELOPMENTS

John Allen Williams aka John Muhammed an AFRICAN AMERICAN is needed for questioning also John Lee Malvos (suspected 17 year old step-son of Williams-Muhammed) are both need for questioning.....

The clue is a credit card which was stolen which muhammed asked for 10 million placed into this account

Muhammed is a former army officer from Washington he is african american which means if he is the Sniper he is an American terrorists with no links with Al-Qedia he was with the Washington Army base I dont know the name

more news at CNN and Fox News

whoa :( :o

Here is the latest bullitens

http://www.foxnews.com/
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,66470,00.html


I give more once it comes to hand.

this may go a little off topic this is (again) from Michael Moore:

The note from the sniper could not have been more clear: "Your children are
not safe, anywhere at anytime." How did snipers get to be so smart? Have
truer words amidst such madness been spoken before? "Your children are not
safe."

And so the parents of the DC area are now in a state of holy terror. The
news media is at full throttle: "Keep your children home! Your child could
be next! The sniper is everywhere!"

And this morning, for the first time, there is talk that perhaps election
day in the Capital area should be postponed -- or at, the very least, the
polls must be manned by armed troops. Fear reigns. The democratic process
can wait. Our children are not safe.

Yes, our children ARE not safe. They have not been safe for some time.
Every single day in America, at least 8 children (19 yrs. old and younger)
are killed by gun violence in the United States. EVERY SINGLE DAY in
America between 30 and 40 people are murdered by someone using a gun. EVERY
SINGLE DAY in America another 40 to 50 people use a gun to kill themselves.
None of this has created a panic. These 80+ deaths a day by gunfire do not
lead off the evening news. We have, sitting in our homes, a quarter-BILLION
guns. And, yet, not one of those guns would have saved anyone shot by the
sniper. The sniper knows -- "Your children are not safe."

But it is not just because of his actions or the actions of those who
collaborate each day in his -- and our -- carnage that makes our children
unsafe.

Your children are not safe because we live in a country where we value
bombs and missiles more than we do textbooks and teachers.

Your children are not safe because we still will not provide them with the
most basic of human rights, one that nearly every other country on earth
has: that ALL children have a right to free health care should they get
sick.

Your children are not safe because we stuff them full of McDonald's and
Ritalin and then wonder why they have diabetes at 13 or shoot up the school
a week before graduation.

Your children are not safe because they saw us adults allow a man to steal
the White House, and then we did nothing about it. They learned that lying
and stealing are OK, but "one person, one vote" is a sham.

Originally posted by zul-aid
Here is the latest bullitens

http://www.foxnews.com/
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,66470,00.html


I give more once it comes to hand.

this may go a little off topic this is (again) from Michael Moore:

The note from the sniper could not have been more clear: "Your children are
not safe, anywhere at anytime." How did snipers get to be so smart? Have
truer words amidst such madness been spoken before? "Your children are not
safe."

And so the parents of the DC area are now in a state of holy terror. The
news media is at full throttle: "Keep your children home! Your child could
be next! The sniper is everywhere!"

And this morning, for the first time, there is talk that perhaps election
day in the Capital area should be postponed -- or at, the very least, the
polls must be manned by armed troops. Fear reigns. The democratic process
can wait. Our children are not safe.

Yes, our children ARE not safe. They have not been safe for some time.
Every single day in America, at least 8 children (19 yrs. old and younger)
are killed by gun violence in the United States. EVERY SINGLE DAY in
America between 30 and 40 people are murdered by someone using a gun. EVERY
SINGLE DAY in America another 40 to 50 people use a gun to kill themselves.
None of this has created a panic. These 80+ deaths a day by gunfire do not
lead off the evening news. We have, sitting in our homes, a quarter-BILLION
guns. And, yet, not one of those guns would have saved anyone shot by the
sniper. The sniper knows -- "Your children are not safe."

But it is not just because of his actions or the actions of those who
collaborate each day in his -- and our -- carnage that makes our children
unsafe.

Your children are not safe because we live in a country where we value
bombs and missiles more than we do textbooks and teachers.

Your children are not safe because we still will not provide them with the
most basic of human rights, one that nearly every other country on earth
has: that ALL children have a right to free health care should they get
sick.

Your children are not safe because we stuff them full of McDonald's and
Ritalin and then wonder why they have diabetes at 13 or shoot up the school
a week before graduation.

Your children are not safe because they saw us adults allow a man to steal
the White House, and then we did nothing about it. They learned that lying
and stealing are OK, but "one person, one vote" is a sham.


I do not question one thing in that post.

TOP POST!

AGREE TOTALLY!

I SECOND THAT ONE MILLION TIMES OVER!:) :( :confused:

FBI and Police have comfirmed that they have Muhammed and his step-son in custody (not known yet if they are the snipers)

- Also thanks for the kind words JTNY

Great post by Michael Moore (via zul-aid) indeed! :) There are a lot of truths in those lines, also a couple of demagogic assertions midway, but it is all good. Thanks for posting that, man!:)

Lets just hope that the feds did get the right guy, so everybody can safely go out and buy some more guns again.

GUNS SUCK!

(FPS games still rock)

Real Guns Suck! I am sure there are places in the world better armed than Texas, but not many. I hate knowing that so many idiots are walking around with such a powerful thing LEGALLY in their posession.

Originally posted by INFESTA
Lets just hope that the feds did get the right guy, so everybody can safely go out and buy some more guns again.

This cracks me up even looking at it again. But it would be a heck of a lot funnier if it wasn't so true.

guys what do we expect though i mean in this country it is so easy to get a gun legally. a research shows that in the last 10 or 20 years 500,000 people have died from gun related things. the internal problems of the USA are going to be a more of a problem than international affairs if action isnt taken soon.

Originally posted by Sukur54
guys what do we expect though i mean in this country it is so easy to get a gun legally. a research shows that in the last 10 or 20 years 500,000 people have died from gun related things. the internal problems of the USA are going to be a more of a problem than international affairs if action isnt taken soon.

man thats 1/7 of the population of my country, 1/2 the population of my city.:(

It turns out there are two of them and that IT WASNT A CREAM COLORED VAN but a blue chevy that they were driving.They found a bushwaker rifle and a whole in the trunk they said was used for the shootings.One of the guys was named Jhon Allen Muhammed :confused: the other guy turns out isnt his step son but they dont know what relation they have.The son allegedly killed a woman at a liquer store sept 25 that right now is what he is being investigated on.Muhammed is being held on charges of illegal gun possesion.

They probably are the snipers but if there not there still going to be held on account of the two charges states above.Lets just hope there arent any copy cats

Originally posted by ahmedkkk
hey guys they caught two guys today who are considered suspects.It turns out there are two of them and that IT WASNT A CREAM COLORED VAN but a blue chevy that they were driving.They found a bushwaker rifle and a whole in the trunk they said was used for the shootings.One of the guys was named Jhon Allen Muhammed originali williams:confused:

Wow so much for americas police force the guys could have been just sitting there at the nearest gas station watching the cops frisk painters in a white van:kader:

Man you didnt read the previous page did you :kader: :rolleyes: I have posted about this already the white van is one of the most common on the roads one witness reported seeing it at the first scene so everytime it happened everyone looked for a white van

If you dont understand what im saying next time you go shopping or 'go down the road' you are nearly 90% chance of seeing a white van they are popular and are every where

EDIT: JUST LOOK ABOVE :f***: "Not happy Jan"

I was just giving the updates that werent in your post man damn Zul you not some temper Aid;) I was just showing what a scary thought it was that the guys were right there and no one figured to look at all the cars.But what is weird is that the shooting at the home depot theY checked"all" the cars so how were they not found? Yes there are alott of white vans


BTW whered you get the quote?I edited the post after i read your report

EDIT:read :f***: below your post zul!!;)

yeah sorry ahmedkkk I read your first post and thought not another idiot posting something that I have already posted (stealing my glory = and I dont mean you ahmedkkk we have agreed on a few things many times before)

The quote about Guns was (obviously) from Michael Moores letters that he sends out on his mailing list - really good reading material

the "Not Happy Jan" is an Australian joke, (its from Yellow Pages) its what we quote when we're pissed off (or when someone else is).

If it is the guy why would he do it.


Former rifle marksman in army..........


He is a muslim......... but that is an extremely early conclusion.


About guns........ in Australia last week there was a shooting too. IF NO ONE HAS GUNS, THEN WHERE IS THE PROBLEM? If people who do shooting as a sport complain, I pose this question.........
Some recreational fun or lives? If that is asking for too much..... make purchasing of firearms almost impossible...... make beaurocracy good for something.:D :p :crazyboy:

Man then the problem is the army have no guns (this guy more than likely stole the gun from the army) im pretty much against guns and also the people who use them but it will never be impossible to buy guns (even with the hardest of restrictions)

Many countries looked at Australia and praised us for our strong stance on guns and gun control. But since the Melbourne University shooting all has changed

Having a gun will never protect you from people with guns... It'll just make you their first target.

Originally posted by FuriousGeorge
Having a gun will never protect you from people with guns... It'll just make you their first target.

I agree 100% with your statement.
Besides, I think having a gun is a good way to NOT solve your problems in a peaceful way - guns give a false sense of security and might only get you killed, no matter if you're the one holding one in the first place or not.

Agree fully goerge if everyone in the world had guns no it wouldnt be safer instead of peaple going along with the robbery for example they will run get the gun and start shooting

.Now instead of some stolen goods someone is hurt maybe dead maybe two peaple dead.
It only feels safer because we are telling our selves "i have a gun aint no one gonna pop with this sh*t"

Btw zul thanks for the lesson in australlian slang

gee since I have been here on these forums we have discussed the problems in the middle east, the gun debate, the problems with American imperialism, problems with GWB, Iraq, Terrorists, University course and New Zealanders ****ing Sheep if only the rest of the world was as smart as us

PS. And also how narrow minded some Americans can be :crazyboy:

Originally posted by FuriousGeorge
Having a gun will never protect you from people with guns... It'll just make you their first target.

That's why you gotta shoot first. :D

Originally posted by zul-aid
gee since I have been here on these forums we have discussed the problems in the middle east, the gun debate, the problems with American imperialism, problems with GWB, Iraq, Terrorists, University course and New Zealanders ****ing Sheep if only the rest of the world was as smart as us

PS. And also how narrow minded some Americans can be :crazyboy:

Yeah I reckon we could get an edited collection of quotes from the off-topic forums published we can leave out the NZ :hump: :fluffy: stuff tho)

jeventus_theres_next_year

The fact that he is muslim isnt a conclusion period he converted 17 years ago i doubt he suddenly found the truth and decided that he must kill al "infidels" But its probably due to the sept 11 atacks he wants the 'glory" osama has

The important thing anyway is that im just saying he didnt kill because he became a muslim or is one but killed because of what others gave done:fluffy: :fluffy:

I have two things to say

1) stop usin fluffy especially in a serious topic like this

2) this is off topic also - I have began reading Scott Ritter (i believe thats his name - the former UN inspectors new book - WAR ON IRAQ and in that I found an interesting quote "A long time now Usama Bin Ladin has tried many times to kill Saddam Hussien" WOW if Bush was so smart he would have cornered both in the same part of the globe and autioned off one atomic bomb and whomever had the most money will have the glory of killing the other - whilst in the end both will be dead USA (again) gets the glory and Bush gets re-elected, time magazine person of the year and the nobel peace prize............. wow WTF im I on about Bush and the Nobel peace prize - not on your life pal :crazyboy:

Another Michael Moore letter - if ya like this go to his website and join his mail subscription

October 25, 2002

Dear friends,

Yesterday, Larry Bennett, a 16-year old, was shot in the head after he was involved in a minor traffic accident. You probably didn't hear about it because, well, how could he be dead if he wasn't shot by The Sniper?

Yesterday, an unidentified woman was shot to death in her car in Fenton, MI. You probably didn't hear about it because she had the misfortune of notbeing shot by The Sniper.

Two nights ago, Charles D. Bennett, 48, an apartment security guard, was shot to death after confronting two teenagers in his parking lot in Memphis, TN. You probably didn't hear about it because the sniper was too busy sleeping in his car that night, and thus, poor Charles was not shot by The Sniper.

Yes, The Sniper has apparently been caught, so we can go back now to NOT reporting the DOZENS of gun deaths that occur every day, the ones that just aren't newsworthy because they happen in all those old boring ways -- unlike the ways of The Sniper, who was interesting and creative and exciting and scary! He played so much better on the news.

Of course, had Congress not caved in to the NRA, we would have known after the first HOUR of the first day of the killings three weeks ago that the rifle those bullets were coming out of belonged to John Williams/Mohammad. Many more people died needlessly after that day, and every one of their deaths could have probably been prevented had we had a national ballistics fingerprinting data base.

Thank you, Mr. Heston for this unnecessary carnage. Thank you, Mr. Bush, for supporting Mr. Heston and his group's agenda -- which protects only the criminals.

If everyone reading this letter (and you now number in the millions) would share this fact with just one person who is thinking of skipping going to the polls on Nov. 5th, I believe that on Nov. 6th, Mr. Bush will have neither the Senate nor the House doing his or Heston's bidding. Americans don't like people who assist serial killers in being able to ratchet up their kills because The Sniper knows that his bullets are prohibited by law from being traced to his gun.

That, in a nutshell, is what the NRA is all about -- and I implore all
responsible gun owners and hunters to join with me in putting an end to the NRA agenda once and for all. Don't give Bush his majority on November 5th. He's already seen to it that his cronies in big business have wiped out your 401 (K), and they are doing their best to see that you are left with no pension at all. That alone should be reason enough to NOT pull a single lever for a Republican on Nov. 5th. Send a message. Do something brave.

I said in an other topic that I have always opposed Bush when I have voted specifically for his take on gun control.

I have voted against him in 2 elections (Texas Governor and US President)

Any M.F. who supports not fingerprinting Guns and relaxing gun control should be shot in the foot by an unfingerprinted gun as a rite of passage.

Maybe some of you guys who are pssionate about gun control can come over to the US and be passionate here...

I honestly beleive we we Americans didn't have such ready access to guns and such numbness regarding gun violence that the ENTIRE WORLD would be a better place 'cause we'd be a lot less likely to go turn some Nation de jour into swiss cheese.

Maybe that is why I am more proud to be a Texas than an American, but then again if Texas was as powerful as the US the world would be in deep Sh1T. We've got some Crazy and ignorant people here.

Wow that moore guy knows his stuff its kind of sad

Originally posted by ahmedkkk
Wow that moore guy knows his stuff its kind of sad

Yeah I have liked Michael Moores stuff for years he has done many TV shows like "TV Nation" "The Awful Truth" movies are "Roger and Me" "Lucky Numbers" - Lisa Kudrow and John Travolta where he plys Kudrows cusion whose religious and loves to mastrubate (showing his sense of humour) and his new one which is about Gun Control called "Bowling for Columbine" a movie which people have said "whether you are for guns or against guns you should watch this movie"

http://movies.go.com/movies/B/bowlingforcolumbine_2002/index.html

whats strange is the fact that the movie was made before the Sniper attacks, also his latest book "Stupid White Men" which speaks about Americas foriegn policy will be its downfall was writtern before September 11th

hehehe from the Washington Post:

With the Sniper, TV Profilers Missed Their Mark

Wrong, wrong, wrong.

It wasn't, apparently, the work of al Qaeda operatives. It wasn't an angry young white man working alone. It wasn't someone who lived in Montgomery County.

Almost everything the sniper "profilers" and pundits told the media over the past three weeks turns out to have been off the mark, considering the very real profiles of the two people arrested early yesterday. The men and women who had been described on the air and in print as "forensic psychologists" and "former FBI investigators" took many swings at the who and why of the sniper case -- and mostly missed.

The pair taken into custody in connection with the case yesterday turn out to be John Allen Muhammad, a 41-year-old black man, a Persian Gulf War veteran and unemployed drifter, and Lee Malvo, 17, a high school student and Jamaican citizen.

That's not the profile viewers and readers would have expected.

"There's probably two skinny kids out there who have made a pact with each other," former New York City homicide detective Bo Dietl told the New York Times last week.

"The truth is he has other responsibilities in his life," criminologist Jack Levin said on Larry King's program on CNN last week. "He may be married. He may be playing with his children, watching football on Sunday, or he may have a part-time job."

The important question is, was the orgy of speculation harmless -- or was there a very dangerous undercurrent to it? By saturating the public's consciousness with phantom images of thirtyish white men, did the media profilers distract attention from a more general and possibly open-minded search for the perpetrators? Did the speculation merely pollute further a well already tainted by faulty eyewitness accounts, such as the elusive (and evidently nonexistent) white van?

If so, the media's performance raises a chilling possibility: that the suspects might have evaded detection for so long because witnesses were focusing too intently on media-created "profiles" that didn't come close to the real thing.

Virtually all of the news media, including The Washington Post, carried some speculation about the identity of the killers, including the apparently accurate guess that the shooter was formerly in the military. There was perhaps something inevitable about this, given the absence of solid facts and the enormous fear and concern generated by the shootings.

But few in the media embraced speculation so heartily as the cable news networks. CNN, MSNBC and Fox News Channel offered hours and hours of guesses from a seemingly endless parade of experts: Levin and Dietl, former FBI profilers Robert Ressler and Clint Van Zandt, Washington profiler Pat Brown, ex-FBI agent Chris Whitcomb, former New York Police detective John Baeza and criminologist James Alan Fox, among others.

All the hot air apparently got to CNN's Lou Dobbs, who began his "Moneyline" program last evening by blasting the "mostly useless blather" of the expert analysts on his and other networks.

But no one was offering apologies or retractions.

"We have no regrets," said CNN Senior Vice President Sue Bunda. "In the context of a discussion about the story, we lean on these folks who have expertise to help guide our viewers through it. . . . I think we were very responsible. I was quite proud of the seriousness of the way we covered it."

Dietl said in an interview yesterday that he "never in a million years" would have guessed that the two people arrested would turn out to be African American. But he made no apologies, saying instead, "I feel like I was part of the case, because I was on TV so much. I wanted people to feel that they could be a detective and that they could be the one who captures these parasites."

MSNBC Vice President Mark Effron says the speculation was caused by "a dearth of information, which causes one to talk about the possibilities and potentialities of the story. As long as we qualify it [as speculation], it's clear to the viewer that [the expert] doesn't have definitive inside information. Profiling is as much an art as a science."

But Peter Smerick, a former FBI profiler now with the Academy Group in Manassas, seemed disappointed by the on-air performance of his brethren. "Whatever any of us say on TV, take with a grain of salt. It's utter speculation," he said.

"Before you or I can reach any conclusions about why these individuals did what they did, there needs to be a deep study. I can't offer an insight into the minds of the individuals because I don't have the facts."

He refused to be quoted further, except to emphasize: "We don't have the facts."

Criminal profilers may be the logical outgrowths of a society that believes that all of human reality can be quantified, a culture that has a touching faith in the truth-revealing ability of statistical analysis.

It's part of the same belief system that has given us governance by polls, insurance by actuarial tables, newspapers by readership surveys and just about everything else by focus groups. It has also given us criminal investigation by number-crunching spreadsheets and computer-enhanced conjecture.

But as the sniper case seems to reveal, profiling can be especially dicey when you're dealing with the madness of the human mind.

The modern-day elevation of the criminal profiler to the status of seer and prophet began with Jack Crawford -- based on real-life FBI investigator John Douglas -- in Thomas Harris's 1988 novel "The Silence of the Lambs."

In the wake of Harris's amazing success, profilers began cropping up in more novels: Patricia Cornwell's Benton Wesley, James Patterson's Alex Cross and Michael Connelly's Terry McCaleb.

And on TV: Samantha Walters in "Profiler" and Drew Haley in "Crossing Jordan."

And all over the place. Douglas went on to write his own books and, logically, he and other criminal profilers -- sort of whodunit pundits -- became frequent guests on talk shows and news programs. In 1997 Douglas was all over the airways after being hired by John and Patsy Ramsey to develop a profile of the person who killed their daughter, JonBenet. Douglas told Larry King and Katie Couric and everybody in between that the Ramsey parents were not involved in the crime.

Real-life profilers have appeared on TV to pontificate on the whereabouts of Eric Rudolph, the disappearance of Chandra Levy and the snatchings of young people this past summer.

But the length of the sniper case, the 24/7 TV interest and the lack of information all worked together to produce a particularly fertile flower bed for true profilers and armchair psychologists.

yeah very interesting

Originally posted by ahmedkkk
yeah very interesting

yeah postboosting is bad

post boosting i know of no such thing

i was simply commenting on how interesting it was that so much stuff about the snipers by the po-lice was wrong

:'(C-O-W-A-R-D A-M-E-R-I-C-A-N-S

Originally posted by Raaul Nazi
:'(C-O-W-A-R-D A-M-E-R-I-C-A-N-S

Hi there. Could you please explain the meaning of your name? Even if "Nazi" is, by some twisted fate, your REAL name, do you understand that using it in an international board might bring you some unwanted attention?

Okay Mr. Super Couragous.

Nazis suck male sexual oragans there im the first one to bring the unwanted attention