It was blo*dy long, so i just thought some of you who aren't from Britian (and didn't read my earlier thread) should read why we, well I, hate Manchester United:

I have been waiting for someone to ask me this question for the longest time....

response to Cantona007's thread:

Cantona - I'm a Liverpool fan, and I have to say my hatred towards Man U is more directed towards the organization, SOME of the fans, and the media's glorification of Man U rather than the team. The team is terrific, I love to watch Ryan Giggs I think he's one of the most exciting players in the world, the same goes for Beckham, and the Yorke and Cole's chemistry up-front is amazing.
BUT, like I said, I still hate the organization, why:
i)What gets me the most, what pisses me off beyond belief, is NOT that Manchester United are winning everything - no problem with that, they're one of the best, so they deserve to win - no, it's (as Danny Kelly put it in August's Total Football Issue" their "intent on denying any other side in their achievements, By pretending that football started with the 1990 World Cup in Italy, the sensation-frenzied media and the born-again Reds are presenting a wholly distorted vision of what United's undoubted achievements actually min. It seems that it's not enough that they win everything; IT HAS TO BE SEEN THAT NO-ONE ELSE HAS EVER WON ANYTHING; is it any wonder that they're becoming so hated."
- Case in point, the best season EVER - in terms of trophies won - CELTIC in 1967 - they won the European Cup, and ALL THREE domestic Scottish Trophies (Goonherboy will no doubt remind u of that)
- United have won now TWO European Cups - that does not make them unique it TIES THEM WITH NOTTINGHAM FOREST who are in the first division might I remind u.
- Ok, they won the trophy away from home - that's not unique either - so Aston Villa and Liverpool (talking about English Clubs).
- And if you compare that to the FOUR European Championships in EIGHT years by Liverpool...Man U still have a way to go (and who knows, they might get there, but they're not there yet) And let's not get started with Real Madrid...
- The fact that they're supported by the majority of people who know nothing about football, I'm a British expatriate living in Canada, and it's rediculous the number of people wearing Man U kits, but if you ask them to name 5 players, they start with Beckham, and then trail off ...."Peter Berkamp!" - that was an ACTUAL answer.\
- They're the English equivalent of the Dallas Cowboys - don't know **** about soccer, well then u support Man U. I mean in the 80s when Liverpool were tearing up the league not everyone suported Liverpool, and not many people hated them, now United do the same and everyone (who's not a real football fan, or wasn't a Man U fan before) jumps on the bandwagon. WHERE WERE YOU UNITED FANS BEFORE 1990? WHERE WHERE U?
- The media kisses their butts - look at Alex Ferguson - not to take anything away from him, he's a great manager, but SIR Alex Ferguson - please...Bob Paisley won NINETEEN TROPHIES IN EIGHT YEARS (yes 19 in 8) with Liverpool and got NOTHING from the media or the Queen.
- United players and SIR Alex Ferguson seem to get preferential treatment from refs and officials, and the BS that comes from Ferguson's mouth - Keane stamps on Steffen Freund and gets NOTHING - no sending off, and then Ferguson says Freund play acted, and that it was 'disgraceful'. David Beckham can step on players, talk back to the ref and he doesn't even get a yellow card.
- Martin Edwards
- Who the hell do u think you are for OPTING out of the FA CUP - of all the nerve - one season, and suddenly you're bigger than football - and what you were lucky that Berkamp missed that penalty and you one the league by a MASSIVE ONE POINT - I understand a win is a win, but if u had of beaten Arsenal 4-0 and won the league by 10 points, beaten Bayern 2-0, I would have been open to the suggestion. This was an insult to football, and to every other team in England - why should they try to win? - If they win, you guys will just say, "yeah, well they didn't play us"
- Money, Gerard Houllier spends 25 million rebuilding an entire side, and he's seen as a big spender, Ferguson spends 40 million in the past 2 seasons - not a word. Houllier brought in a 'foreign legion', so I guess, Jaap Stam, Ronny Johnsen, Henning Berg, Mikael Silvestre, Soljskear (spelling), Yorke, Fortune, Keane, Giggs, Bosnich, Van der Gouw and Taibi are all English right? - it's a double standard.
- your arrogant attitude is summed up in the way, YOU, Cantona007, attack Leeds, they're first place and you're logic is they'll fail because they never won before - you give them no respect whatsoever, and they're, from a neutral's standpoint :-) a bloody good team. Yeah, so you beat them, Liverpool soundly beat Arsenal 2-0, but I'm not stupid enough to think for a moment my boys are as good as Aresenal yet. You demand respect, but you don't give respect to ANYONE else.
- I could go on for hours, but I'll sum up the extent of my, and many people I know's hatred for you b@astards, I'm a Brit, and when ANY British team plays another team in Europe, I'm gunning for the Brits, doesn't matter if it's Celtic, Rangers, Arsenal, hell even if Everton were to go up against one of the big Italian clubs I would support them - because those teams represent Britian, but United....let's put it this way, when Roy Keane made that WONDERFUL backpass in Florence a few weeks ago (50,000 a week, oh yes please), and Batistuta slammed the ball into the net, if you had of opened your window, you would have heard a faint laugh that travelled all the way from the frozen north of Canada to your house.
- AND THAT, my friend, IS WHY I HATE MANCHESTER UNITED P.L.C. MORE THAN ANYTHING IN THE WORLD.

MAN UTD THE WORLD CHAMPIONS.....THAT'S ALL WHAT SHOULD BE SAID FOR NOW AT LEAST!

Here is why I hate Man U. First off all I am a very loyal Arsenal fan. I love this club and I always have. United stole the title from us last year. Why because they where playing a last game against on of the worst clubs in England: Spurs. United players get a bit to much praise. Beckham is not the Englands best crosser, what about that new young lad at Chelsea (I forgot his name but he played against Hull in the 6-1 defeat). He is a great crosser much better than Beckham. The only good player (in my opinion) that United have is Giggs.

I noticed that there where alot of Man U fans in this forum. Why do you like Man U? Is it because they got lucky and won the treble?

Neutral: You give United abit to much praise. But your story was a really nice one.


Merry Christmas everybody!!

I don't think you should post this topic in this forum. I don't even know why you all have this hatred. All I see in this forum is that people saying like: "Leeds is better" or "Man.U. will never win another tytle, ever". Only Cantona007 supports Man. U. Everybody else bitches about it. Do you care if they won Champions' League, Intercontinental Cup, Fa Cup and the championship in a single year? Just support your own club, Liverpool for instance. In England I support Wrexham AFC, playing in second division. I don't really follow the Premiership, but I kinda like Tottenham. All I know about it is David Ginola, Andrerton and some others. Why don't I shout on whole forum something like Wrexham is the best and it will kick anybody's ass? Only beacause it is not the best club and, certainly, it will not kick anybody's ass in Premiership. So stop saying about the past; talk about it when Liverpool will win 4 trophies in one single year. And Leeds is not on first place; Manchester is the potential leader and has one game back. And compared to Chelsea, Arsenal and Liverpool, Manchester United has less than 50% of foreginers, which is a good thing.

So just wait until Liverpool will win any tytle, and then begin saying why you hate Man.U. which , certainly, plays better last games than Liverpool.
With the same hatred I hate Chelsea and Arsenal, both because of squads filled up on 88% with foreigners. I don't like much Leeds, who, instead of playing with Spartak, asked for the postponing the game. I know that the pitch was even better than Dynamo Kyiv played on with Real M. But Real went there and played, and, won. But it was very important for Leeds to win, so they tried to do whatever it needed. In Bulgaria, Spartak, having a lot of disadvantages, won. Didn't get lucky in Leeds.

So, I can whine all day about how I hate some soccer clubs, but I just don't do it. And don't bitch about it in FIFA 2000 forum, like someone cares about it.

2Salamo:
Tottenham is not the worst club in the Premiership, and I think that it is stupid to hate a club just beacause they are better than your club. And I don't think that a club that won Champions' League and FA Cup would get lucky with the Premiership. That means that they are better (simple). And Beckham is Europe's second player. Pele said that he should be the first. And why do you like Arsenal? Man U fans would ask this question to you if Man U would lose to Tottenham and Arsenal would be lucky by winning the trophy. Champions' league and Premiership say that this club is very serious club.
I am sorry to remind you about 2 straight Champions' League contests, when Arsenal had 4th and 3rd places in their group.



I am not saying this because I like Manchester United, I just say it because
I hate to see when people are offending a better team, just because they stole the Premiership, or whatever.

[This message has been edited by Russian Rocket (edited 12-25-1999).]

where from Canada ru ?I live in Montreal.

The Most Successfull Team of The Millennium
Liverpool F.C.

Italy82, I live in Toronto, u a Habs fan? (I DON'T support the Leafs :-)

S.O.S re: Liverpool most succesful team - I wish mate, I think that distinction goes to either Celtic or Real Madrid (not exactly sure), but I know they've won more domestic titles.

[This message has been edited by Neutral (edited 12-25-1999).]

I like the habs ,but they just damn suck.

Come on guys, we all know that Manchester Players are arrogant... they win like no one have ever won..(did you see the match agains Palmeiras ? - They didn't even comemorate... like that was just a friendly... that's why many people hate them... and other points: NArf... ManU is not the best team in the world... is just the less worst!hehehe! :-þ
so ...

let's stop talking about that
and Merry Christmas!

(did anyone understand what I tried to say?)

Italy82: re, the habs - well the just had a boatload of injuries, at least rucinsky's comming around. I'm a die hard sens fan - liked them when the completely STANK - back then it was a joke, u know u put on the Sens toque and everyone laughs, not anymore :-) NEWAYS, enough hockey back to football.

Russian Rocket: You are simply wrong my poor friend.

You can not ask why I like Arsenal. I have always loved that team, there is nothing more to it.

The 6-1 thrashing last week that Newcastle inflicted on Tottenham proves that Tottenham are not such a great side. Tottenham have been a very strong side during the days of Klinsmann but now they are not even close to what they where. I hope you where not saying that Tottenham are better than Arsenal!? If you where then you need to look at the premiership more often.

I am not offending Manchester United, I am just stating my opinions on the club that gets to much praise because they won the treble.

Do you know how many people outside of England and the UK became United fans just because they won the treble and are considered to be such a great team? A huge amount of people.

So United did well last season. If you play football or have ever played football then you would understand that a team that is well known and that has had success in previous years is a harder team to beat. The reason for this is that:

A) They have alot more supporters to get behind them.
B) They are confident.
C) The opposition is scared and not in their best mood because they think their opponents are really hard to beat.

This is at least what I have noticed before a game.

I do not think United will win the premiership this season because of teams like Sunderland, Leeds and Arsenal that go to every match without any fear. This plays a big part in who wins it and who doesn't.

Arsenal may not win it but it really won't matter to me in the end as I will support Arsenal even if they get relegated.

You seem to be upset by my comments on the Spurs.

You said that we should stop bitching about this topic because nobody cares. Well if you have not noticed you seem to care since you are responding to the topic.

If you don't think this topic should be posted in this forum then don't reply to it.
How could you like Tottenham if you only know two players (Anderton not Andrerton)?

I am very passionate about my football. You may not understand that word and if you don't then I understand why you would not understand my reply.

MERRY XMAS Russian Rocket!

GO ARSENAL!!

Finally, a normal Man U fan, if only there were more of u. Major kudos if your dad has been supporting them since 1970s and has stuck with them, Man U fans like that I can respect, it's the 90s bandwaggoners and loud-mouths I can't stand - the English media doesn't help much either. Neways, I should cool off this topic...Merry Christmas everyone.

Oh yeah, have to say it, I'm a sens fan, but
CUJO FOR MVP - the man is absolutley AMAZING, same goes for the underrated Sundin, who's one of the top 5 players in the league. I wish we had Yashin back.....
:-(

[This message has been edited by Neutral (edited 12-25-1999).]

hey man, totally agree with the CUJO nomination, but the sens, your better off without Yashin, way too greedy. Trade him and get some value back, the Sen's are a great team without him, imagine if they get a good young player in return for him.

Amazing, it's hockey talk on FIFA 2000.

me a bandwagoner eh, i think not just like toronto_mufc, my parents lived in england and supported manu, it can remember the days of todays old heroes like the mcclairs and hughes so dont run your mouth of neutral all i have to say is to look at manu's trophy room to see what they have been up to this decade, liverpools dynasty is over and manus has begun and 10 years from now people will be talking about the current manu dynasty

so why the jealousy manu suck eh, well i guess if your blind and deaf they do!!!!!
i guess they didnt win the fa cup the league the euro cup and world club cup!!!

yeah leeds are better why cuz they have won how many things this year or last!!!

get real!!!! the cream of the crop is manu like it or not

me a bandwagoner eh, i think not just like toronto_mufc, my parents lived in england and supported manu, it can remember the days of todays old heroes like the mcclairs and hughes so dont run your mouth of neutral all i have to say is to look at manu's trophy room to see what they have been up to this decade, liverpools dynasty is over and manus has begun and 10 years from now people will be talking about the current manu dynasty

so why the jealousy manu suck eh, well i guess if your blind and deaf they do!!!!!
i guess they didnt win the fa cup the league the euro cup and world club cup!!!

yeah leeds are better why cuz they have won how many things this year or last!!!

get real!!!! the cream of the crop is manu like it or not

Cantona007 proved my point, well done mate.

Look, Neutral

there are only 2-3 people who responded to this topic. Others were writing about hockey.
Well, I know more than 2 players in Spurs, but, as I said before, the team I support is Wrexham AFC, and, surely, I know every player in their roster. I never said I followed Tottenham. I just kinda like them. I watched the game Tottenham vs. Newcastle until it was 3:1. Maybe you are right; they are not hte best, but you should get my point; Spurs were 10th or 12th last season, but that doesn't make them the worst team. They beat Man.U this season, I think (3:1).
it is just not right to hate someone because they are better. And again, Man. U. are potential leader; they have one game back.
I would really be dissapointed when someone would say that Swansee City and Cardiff City are better than Wrexham. And only with Giggs Man. U. couldn't have won so many trophies. Stam, Bekham, tandem of Yorke and Cole, Scholes, Giggs, Shmeichel, Phillipe Neville are top class players. And saying that Bekham Sucks (or something like that) just because he plays for Manchester is not right. he is 2nd best player in Europe.


2Toronto_MUFC and Neutral: Just trade Alexei for whatever; he said he won't play for Sens until he gets his wage (7 or 8 milion per year, I think). He is about to get 3 million per year. Although I think Sens don't need him; just look how they play right now.

Poor Habs: just look at their injured list:
Ulanov
Malakhov
Savage
Koivu
Linden
That is quite a lineip. Go Sharks and Flames!



[This message has been edited by Russian Rocket (edited 12-25-1999).]

Neutral,
no need reminding it`s a known fact that the 67 celts were and are the greatest team ever.

I also hate Manu but i admit it i put my hate down to jealousy.

I`d love to have the likes of Giggsy, Beckham, Cole, Yorke, Stam, Keane and Solskjaer on my side.

My last reply, check the posts, I never ever said the team sucks, they're a good team, but I just hate the arrogant attitude of the club and (some) of the fans, I'm not jealous, I know football can be like a series of cycles and my team are in a downturn, but they'll be back up, but I don't mind if Leeds, or Arsenal, or Chelsea, or Sunderland or any other teams win, but I don't like the fact that it seems that every Manchester United win is worth more than any other teams wins. Leeds are in first, so United have a game in hand, they deserve some respect at least. But I try and say this, and how they've contributed the most to commercializing the game in England, and how they're more of a business than a football club, and fans like Cantona get all paranoid saying "oooh jealously" or cry the Sky is falling (pun intended). I knew when I posted this few United fans would see where the hate's comming from, I have lots of friends I talk to back home (most from London) and they feel the same way about United.
Like the team, hate the club. Read my post, I never said they 'sucked', that would make me as ignorant as SOME of their fans.
I don't hate them because they're better than Liverpool, so are Leeds, Arsenal and I still believe, Chelsea, but I don't hate those teams.
I'll leave it at that.

re: Yashin
:-))
Yeah, the sens are doing ok without him, but come playoff time we still have the most balanced team in the conference with MEDIOCRE goaltending - IMO no one in the East is getting past Toronto - Cujo is too good - hockey is like that. We need to trade him for a goalie....but who? The answer is a post on another disucssion board, on another site :-)

Hey everyone, I am also in Canada (toronto) and I am a huge Manchester United fan, that can name everyone on the team from this year, and quite a few from previous years. I am not a Band-Wagon Jumper like many, but my father was a supporter since the 1970's, so that's where my support stems from.

As for this topic, everyone is entitled to their opinion. The team is fantastic, the fans are fantastic, and the manager is fantastic. It's one thing to be bitter about the attention their getting considering the achievements of other clubs (liverpool), but it's another to hate them for it. They are the best, and you acknowledge that, but Leeds are also a great side, as are Arsenal. I am actually of Maltese heritage, but I love British football and I cheer all english teams when they are up against European competition, especially the Italian teams, shame that Roma got past the ever improving Newcastle.

As for all the United Jersey's you see Canadians wearing, it's no coincidence that there is more television coverage now than there ever was, and with United being the best right now, it's rather natural for people to adopt them as their team. In Toronto, we get 2 LIVE GAMES EVERY SATURDAY from the premier league and 2 Italian games live on Sundays. We also get the Monday Game from the premier league, and all Champion League games, UEFA Cup games, and ALL of the games from the upcoming European Cup.

And Last point, but not least, THE TORONTO MAPLE LEAFS ARE THE BEST TEAM IN THE NHL, GO LEAFS GO. Naturally, I hate the Habs, but love the rivalry. This has been long enough. Ciao.

Russian Rocket how can you comment on anything if you still think that Leeds cheated!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!
if you want them to play on a ice pitch and break their legs then you are crazy!
Who cares what Real Madrid did?!?!?
Well i have been throught this before and i cant believe you still carry on about it!
Spartak are the biggest bunch of whingers i have ever seen!!!
The club actually called Leeds cheats!
geez......thats brings alot of honour to the club...all it shows is that you are a buch of crying babies who cant handle it when things dont go your way...
And i Dont want another argument about this cause its pointless..

AND I HATE MANCHESTER UNITED!!!!!!!!!!!
WHY??????
because of all the reasons neutral gave before!
Majority of the Man U supporters arent even proper fans and dont know a thing about the club....
Man U supporters still pay out Leeds even though they are top!?
i have never said that Man U suck....they are a great team BUT they are beatable as will be proved this season!!!!!!!!!!!!

And Russian Rocket have u ever out your brain into gear and thought that maybe Salamo hates Tottenham because they are Arsenals biggest rivals........

And ill end on this.....every time a Man U supporter sticks up for team they have the most un-intelligent comments.......

"Man U are the cream of the crop..."

Why dont u back up what youre saying like Neutral did and then u wont sound like such idiots...

Neutral, not so neutral are you , hehehe. Your posts on this forum have been good and funny at times. As for your comments, spot on, round here the glory hunters are also plentifull.
The opting out of the FA cup was an absolute disgrace to everybody concerned. The man utd team is good, results have proven that, but the team is just one aspect of that which is Man utd

Russian rocket, get over it, the UEFA officials pulled the plug on the game, Leeds were fully entitled to complain about the pitch, they have a responsibility to keep their players safe. Now unless you're the groundsman there how the heck do u know the pitch was better than a previous game ? And with the whole Arsenal and Tottenham thing, you obviously know very little bout the english game then. Spuds are considered to be Arsenal arch rivals, and when they 'lost' against man utd on the final day every single Arsenal fan cringed.
Leeds is in first, manchester is in second, and that's that. There's no league table with potential leader and such crap, man utd must still get points if any from that game, whereas Leeds already have the points.
And could you please for the record state the 88% of the Arsenal team that is foreigners compared to the remaining 12% that is English. Well ?? You don't even know two players of your 'fav' english team Tottenham but you can hate a team of which you know absolutely nothing ?

Look, Canoe:
tottenham is not my favorite side (can't count how many times I said that). I know Anderton, Ginola and Walker, and I just don't need to remember all the players, because I have a lot of favorite sides. And I know a lot of players, but I just don't need to remember all Spurs' players. And it would be funnier if Charlton Athletic would be the rival of Arsenal. How the hell am I supposed to know that Arsenal and Spurs were rivals?!?! I surely don't wear Spurs jersey and shout "Spurs are the best!". Can't you just look on my nickname? I have never followed the English League since this year. Besides, there are a lot of clubs in London, and I just didn't have any clue that they were rivals. Also, I think I have all the right to like any club and not know any players.
And, really, there are about 8-15 people offending Manchester and only Cantona007 is still around from Manchester fans. Plus, can you tell me a fellony that Man U have done? They are the best. And it would funny, if Leeds would have 5 more games than Manchester, and, eventually, they would be on the first place, and you all would shout that Leeds are the champions. I also think that it looks like jealosy when you say that "Morris is better than Beckham". Morris (I think you meant him, Neutral) is decent young player and Beckham is second Europe's best player. See the difference?
And, let me refrase:
I don't like Arsenal and Chelsea because they have a lot of foreigners. Do you give **it if I know Spurs' players or not? If some of you don't like Machester just because they won a lot of tytles, then why do you offend me for "offending 'an obsolutely nothing done' team" ?!?!?
If there is any team I care in England (or Wales) is Wrexham. I should know their squad, as I do. I do not wear Spurs sweater and I don't waste my brain space for knowing their players. Maybe I just named Spurs just if anyone asks "What is your favorite team in England". You never know. I have the right to hate some teams too.



[This message has been edited by Russian Rocket (edited 12-26-1999).]

MANCHESTER UNITED RULEZ AND DON'T EVER FORGET THAT!!

P:S I LIVED IN MANCHESTER SO I KNOW HOW PPL FEEL TOWARDS THE BEST TEAM IN THE WORLD. http://www.soccergaming.com/ubb/smile.gif

Whats this crap about playing on bad pitch? You think in the past 100 years they never played on frozen pitch? It happened all the time, and is still happening in many northern European leagues every year. It was a bogus decision and you know it!

They had the same conditions in Prague one day earlier whole Europe was frozen that week! but guess which game got called off...a fix plain and simple.

Did you see the pitch during Poland - W. Germany WC 74, or the pitch in Russia-Bulgaria WC 98 qualifiers? or the pitch Parma was playing past 3 weeks?

Russian Rocket:' "Morris is better than Beckham". Morris (I think you meant him, Neutral) '


NOOOO - I NEVER SAID THAT (wipes sweat off brow), no check the posts I never said anything like that, I don't think I compared Beckham to anyone.
Oh boy what kind of pandoras box have I opened :-)
btw its not jealously, when Arsenal or other teams win, I'm not jealous, I just don't like united.

PolishPower- I know what you mean about the WC'74 pitch. It was APPALLING! We were wrongly beaten by German scum! I'm a Pole by family so, I'm a strong supporter of the Poles! Anyway, moving back. Even though I live in London, I'm a Man U supporter. And before anyone shouts at me, I've supported them since I was 4. And as I'm 16, that means since '87. Before they were really any good. My parents supported them since the 60's and I'm carrying it on Anyway, I'm one of these supporters that will not only praise United, but put them down. I'm honest. I agree with Neutral. I hate people who just support United because they're good. I've supported them, like all TRUE Man U fans, through thick and thin. Not just because they're doing well. Even though I think Man U will win, I've a strong feeling that Leeds or even Sunderland, could challenge and win the title. And, all credit to them if they do. They deserve it. Anyway, I'll just finish by saying 'All you 90's bandwagoners- You don't SUPPORT United. You just say you do!'

Russian, okay, so you're a Wrexham fan, great. By the way, I think it's rich coming from a foreigner complaining bout the amount of foreigners at some clubs. You never did answer me on that alleged 88% foreigners at Arsenal. Did u know that with a regular XI and 5 subs it's man utd that has more foreigners than Arsenal ? And do remember that foreigner means someone from outside that specific country, hence Irwin, Giggs and Keane are foreigners too. They do call it the English premier league, and not the british premier league.

Polishpower, I can't believe you of all people have joined the bad pitch debate. Remember that it was the UEFA officials who called off the game, not Leeds. So if there was a fix then UEFA is in on it. And despite the whole europe being frozen, football fields have heating to cope with such conditions. According to two different reports I read both claimed the heating was left off so that Leeds couldn't train on the field, but when they eventually turned it on it was too late and the pitch was frozen and considered dangerous and called of by the officials. As club ( any club ) they have a responsibility to keep their players safe, and Leeds never did anything wrong.

Mikezak, I'll never anything against a true supporter like yourself, just these idiots who call themselves fans,although they don't know half the team or ever watch matches

Even though I support Middlesbrough I have always liked Manu. Probably because all of the coaching staff are former Manu players.
Then again it is getting boring now that they are dominating the Premiership, and Leeds look like the only threat.

Look.
what do you mean by "he doesn't deserve it"? Almost all managers voted for Rivaldo and Bekcham. Pele said:" Bekcham deserves the European player of the year more than Rivaldo. Last couple of years he was on the top form. But Rivaldo scored a lot of goals, and goals mean a lot of things.." or something like that. If all managers say that Bekcham is good, and some fans say he isn't just because they don't like him, it isn't right.
And Harley, I saw the match between Hull and Chelsea, maybe he crossed some in that match, but there is a big difference in game style between Hull and other Premier League sides. I bet that Vialli won't use this guy untill he is more mature. Have you seen the game between Chelsea and AC Milano? On the field there was only one Englishman, Dennis Wise!
1 Ed De Goey
2 Dan Petrescu
3 Celestine Babayaro
5 Frank Leboeuf
6 Marcel Desailly
7 Didier Deschamps
8 Gustavo Poyet
11 Dennis Wise (C)
17 Albert Ferrer
19 Tore Andre Flo
25 Gianfranco Zola

I would really laugh if the only Englishman would come from Milan. And, of course, if you would count Irish, Welsh, Scottish and Northern Irish players as a foreigners, I think that it won't be ENGLISH Premier League any more. But I count Irish, Welsh and Scottish as a players from United Kingdom.

OK, and about the pitch. Every, and almost every team played Spartak on the frozen pitch. Inter Milan, Sturm Graz, Sion and others weren't whining much. But, to give Leeds some credit, it was the ref, who postponed the game.

I'll just add one more thing about the pitch- what bothered me about the postponement, was not so much the decision to postpone the game, but that they forced Spartak to move the game to a neutral country. Now imagine there is a big freeze in England and the pitch at Old Trafford is frozen and there is a big European cup game to be played, 1st do you think there is a chance this game would ever be 1.postponed, 2.moved to a neutral site in another country?
There is not a chance in hell that would ever happen!!! Like I said before, one set of rules in UEFA for the rich and famous, another set of rules for everyone else.

As to foreigners: I would not hate a team just because they had a lot of foreigners, I guess if the rules allow it so be it, though i think it would be better for the game in Europe if teams were limited to 5 foreigners in the starting line-up, or at any time durng the game.

Its strange how you say in Toronto everyone has a man utd. jersey ,here in Montreal ,many people (including I)wear Juventus Jersey .The best ones are also their jackets that cost about 300$ ,but its a nice one with the Kappa signs.In Montreal ,were more into the serie A than the Premier League.
Another thing ,you are right when u say that the habs are hampered with injuries ,but if you at last season when you had Recchi and Damphousse ,they wore still an awfull team .If the habs dont make the playoffs ,Vigneault will get fired .Last thing ,you Toronto people think that theres a big rivalry when Montreal plays the leafs ,well here we dont think its a rivalry ,actually we dont care ,we only think of the quebec nordiques as our rivalry even though they are gone now .

I think it's time that everyone gave Man Utd. respect for what they are. They may have their faults but that is the case for every team. Talking about publicity Brazil have the same probblem. You can't deny that Brazil are a good team but then the same applies for Man Utd. You ask people 5 Brazilian players it goes Ronaldo ahm Rivaldo ah ahm I don't know. Some mention Denilson & Roberto Carlos but lots of people haven't even heard of them.

Russian!!!

Who said that Beckham sucks? What I said was that there are many other players that are better crossers than Beckham. If he is supposed to be second best in Europe he really does not deserve it. Look at the great players like Edgar Davids or Marcelo Salas or Gabriela Batistuta. All much better players than Beckham.

I think Neutral is right about the whole United publicity thing.

Russian Rocket it was not Neutral who talked about the young lad at Chelsea it was me and I was not refering to Morris but to some guy called Harley. He crossed a couple of nice balls in the box which resulted in Poyets goal and Suttons goal. I have seen him play in a couple of other matches as well.

If youre not English you shouldn't hate Arsenal and Chelsea for having to many foreigners. If you are I understand you. I think it is good that they have a few foreigners as it brings a different light to the game and since in many countries they do not have desent leagues then it is great for those players to come to England and play as foreigners.

RUSSIAN ROCKET!!!!!!!!!!!

"But, to give Leeds some credit, it was the ref, who postponed the game."

MY GOD!!!!
YOUVE FINALLY UNDERSTOOD WHAT IVE BEEN TRYING TO SAY TO YOU THE WHOLE TIME WE'VE BEEN ARGUING!!!!!!!!!!!!!

AND IT TOOK YOU THIS LONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

and if you dont follow the premier league then why do u bother arguing about with people who DO follow it!

you say that u dont like Arsenal and Chelsea cause theyre amount of foreingners......and u say u like Tottenham but dont know any of their players....
WELL FOR ALL YOU KNOW THEY COULD BE FOREIGNERS ASWELL!!!!!!!!!!!!(they have some)

and you were arguing b4 why Arsenal supporters hate Tottenham........and then when people tell u their rivals u say How was i sposed to know!?!?!
IF YOU DONT KNOW, DONT COMMENT!!!!!!!!!!!!

i swear some people on this forum are thick.......

Russian, you named Chelsea with just one english player, but I asked you to name the 88% foreigners and 12% englishmen in the arsenal line up.
And I'm glad that you see the decision was the officials decision and nobody else's.
And please note that Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland, Ireland are all football playing nations with national squads. It is therefore that I regard them as foreigners, cause they play for a different nation. Yes, they are still from the United kingdom, britian, whatever, but the league is called The ENGLISH Premier league, not the britian premier league. Although having a britian premier league would be awesome though.

Falcon, respect given where it's due, and Man utd as team have my utmost respect, they can snatch victory from defeat, turn draws into wins, something I wish my team could do more often.

Polishpower, how many more times must I say this, the official reports/news items I saw said that the pitch heating was not turned on in time, thus Spartak was at fault, hence the game was moved to neutral territory. Whether this is true or not I can't say, but if the pitch was frozen and the heating didn't help then spartak should've cancelled/postponed the game out of their own. But obviously they thought they could get an advantage on such a pitch and hence wanted to play the game. Sorry, but if Arsenal did this I would want them kicked out, never mind playing the game in a neutral country, this ain't football, this sounds more like cheating to me.

again i ask you all why all the hate becuase of manu's attitude? dont cry me a river

and another thing i wont sit idle while all you hater kick and low blow manu

if leeds are so great proove it, manu have so why cant you

proof you want? were fu*ken defending euro champs what more do you want?

you dont like manu's attitude who cares i dont like yours!!!

italy82, i have alot of italian friends and just like montreal they have alot o juve stuff which is great cuz we always play and joke around, (best euro matches in a while too manu v juve)

i also luv the fact that finnally all you leeds fans have come from under the rocks you were hiding most of the decade, yeah you guys are awesome i admit but not in the same class as manu not yet anyway(plus we dont have our stars olympic diving in the opposistions box)

so in conclusion dont make the arguement that you dont like manu becuz of their attitude cuz i think it is more like your attitude of jealousy!!!!!what next you dont like yorke and cole cuz they have nike contracts?

and if you want to say leeds are this and that tell me why becuz lately i havent seen em in champions league(now why do you think they call it that?) or why arnt leeds in the club world cup in jan? doesnt fifa know how amazing leeds are? what then again whats fifa? what next leeds sign rivaldo?

pleez manu have prooven time and time again they are the best in england and wait it gets

better they have proof there called titles
do you leeds fans know what those are?

I also hate Manchester United. It's by no means a recent thing, however, as I remember the Leeds United Championship of 1991-92 with fond memories....and Man. Utd had only won a couple of trophies in the decade before hand.

I have supported Newcastle United all my life, and as we were at the bottom of Division 2 (old) that season, I have no reason to hate them through inferior performances, I just hate them.

It's not the players that I hate (well, there is Roy Keane & Ole-Gunnar Solkjaer), indeed, I admire nearly all the squad (and I keep a special eye on Andy Cole, for obvious reasons (42 goals in 1993-94 anyone?), and there is no questioning the man's immense talent. David Beckham would be a valuable addition to any squad (we would all be happy if he signed for our team, wouln't we?), and he has worked hard at his game, and never stops runnung and tackling, take the F.A. Cup funal of last season, for example (ouch!). He has managed all this with a tiny IQ (allegedly).

Same (not the IQ bit) applies to the likes of Jaap Stam, Paul Scholes, Dwight Yorke and Ryan Giggs. If the Black & Whites signed any of these players I would be over the moon, even Wes Brown is already a household name. With stars as yong and talented as these, Man.Utd are, unfortunately, going to be around for a while yet. Although the same applies to Leeds & Liverpool, who have both brought through some exceptional young players over the past 2-3 seasons.

I don't mind Arsenal, although precious few outstanding young players have emerged from Highbury in recent years.

I still despise Man U. though!

[This message has been edited by steve-e-o (edited 12-27-1999).]

OK, Salamo, let me say slower:

Many classified managers say that Bekcham is supposed to be second or first and you, just a fan is saying that he shouldn't. Maybe you can tell Keegan how to win the Euro 2000?

Who gives a damn what Pele said. You keep going on and on about what Pele said. Beckham might be good but nothing close to the class of players I mentioned in my last reply. Yes goals do take a big part in who wins the award as they do in who wins every match.
Beckham does cross some nice balls sometimes but there are better crossers.

By the way Vialli uses Harley quite abit now.

Ok fine so alot of managers seem to think he is first or second best, well I don't.
And maybe I can tell Keegan how to win Euro 2000! Hehehe.