Are any of you guys interested in debating about soccer, specialy the mls and stuff like that, that just isn't good enough to compete against the rest of the world?
Well, if you are send a reply of some kind so I can see if anyone is interested or not. If I see that many of you care about it, I'll put my page(currently, futebolpro.net) in english and appropriate to everything.
Alright?
cool
Rodolfo Nunes

The problem is that there anything to debate: MLS cannot compete with the rest of the world. Who's going to argue that? Not only that the drop-off from DC United to the rest of the MLS is ridiculous. In international club play, DC United can hang in there, but isn't about to win any meaningful competitions, but NO ONE ELSE in MLS even deserves consideration. Look at it this way, arguably the #1 keeper in the USA, Brad Friedel, is at best back-up on a middle-of-the-table English team (Liverpool).

Haha why do you pick Friedel to make a point? The no. 1 USA keeper is Kasey Keller and he plays for Rayo Vallecano in Spain which is currently 6th in the table?

And since when did Liverpool become a crap team? Each year people say this will be their year, and each year they crap out(well recently anyway.)But give them time, Liverpool is too rich to be crap for long.

Don`t forget Claudio Reyna at Rangers, a good player but he couldn`t have picked a worse club.
CELTIC #1

Every league might have its day, and sometimes small clubs reach surprisingly far. Local teams from tiny and primitive (soccer-wise) Israel beat Parma, Besiktas and Ajax (for example) on their way to quarter-finals of Cup Holders' Cup and 3rd round of UEFA cup.

Give any league time and it will probably improve.

One of the main problems about other countries' perception of the MLS is that many of them saw only one or two MLS games in the first season and haven't seen any since.

Many fans of the game from outside the US that I've spoken to said that they hate MLS, saying something to the effect of, "Oh, I saw a game in the first season and [INSERT MLS TEAM HERE] sucked!"

Uhh... MLS will soon be starting its FIFTH SEASON... that's quite a bit of time from the last time since the first season, and most of the MLS has gotten A LOT better since then (New York/New Jersey, New England and Kansas City notwithstanding http://www.soccergaming.com/ubb/wink.gif ). MLS still isn't near the quality of the top leagues in the world, but it's a LOT better than what most of the people posting on these boards think (they think MLS is crap, which it most definitely is not!).

A few of those people I spoke to recently didn't actually admit that they only saw a game during the first season, but it was obvious: they kept referring to those "ugly half-yellow/half-white" San Jose uniforms in the present tense, believing that those are the current uniforms. They were shocked and embarrased when I informed them that athough I agree that those uniforms were ugly, that the team wore those uniforms FOR ONLY ONE SEASON --- in 1996 (and I was glad to see those uniforms go by the next year). That proved that not only did they NOT see a game since the first season, but that they didn't even follow what was going on with the team (and the league) since that time... yet they keep talking as if they do know! http://www.soccergaming.com/ubb/frown.gif


-G

Goodsport, mls is crap. they play like girls. i was watching a game like 1 month ago and the goalkeeper came out and missed the ball and the other team scored. plus they play on a football american field.

Why put down the MLS by comparing it to other leagues that have been in progress for 50 or 60 years or more. The MLS is still in its early infancy as is american soccer with respect to the level its played at. I think the Americans and the MLS are progressing at a pretty healthy rate. Keep an eye on the improvements in all aspects of american soccer each year and they are not going backwards. Its not at a world beating stage but that may happen in the future, maybe 30 years from now. At least the US soccer scene is growing from grass roots level this time as opposed to the money bash of the 70's

Fotbalguy,
And just what do girls play like?
Why do you find the need to be sexist?

As for your MLS analysis...
It sounds like you watched part of the MLS Cup Final... It was a poor match. I agree on that... but there were many fine matches too. The playoff semifinals were all fantastic!

As for the keeper error...Have you never seen a keeper come out and miss? It happens in every league in the world at some point. Even the Premiership or Serie A. Even the World Cup Finals. Everyone screws up and has a bad day.

As for the American Football fields... not all the teams play on one... Columbus Crew just built a soccer only stadium, but it takes time and money. The league is only 4 seasons old!!!! At least 2 or 3 other teams are planning on building new soccer stadiums in the next few years, after seeing Columbus' success with it. (Top attendance in the league, and in a small market too!)

ZZUB, I agree with you completely. It was a very fair assessment.

gmartinz, ...Liverpool may be mid-table, but they have beaten some of the top clubs to get there. For Liverpool to get a work permit for Friedel, SOMEONE thought he was good. S. Westerveld seems to have a lock on the position as long as Houllier is there.
I wouldn't be surprised to see another European squad pick up Friedel, though I'd prefer to see him back in MLS. I seem to remember Friedel having some success with Galatasaray. Kasey Keller started for Leicester City for a couple of years, and now he is winning Keeper of the Month awards in Spain for Rayo Vallecano. Not too shabby.

Fotbalguy: A keeper missed the ball and it got put into empty net? You sure you not talking about Palmeiras - Man U game, thats how Keane scored...

Or that match earlier when the ball went through Man U keeper Taibi's legs!

Like I said... it happens in all leagues.

Speaking of soccer only stadiums, it would be great if they start building more of those and giving them an older European influence kinda like the ones in England or Germany... Highbury, White Hart Lane, Stamford Bridge etc... And they don't have to be huge. They've done a great job building new baseball stadiums that echo the past like Camden Yards (Go Orioles!) and Turner Field so the same for soccer would be nice. It would help in building tradition and a following.

Great idea.
Write a letter to MLS and tell them.
It might not help, but it can't hurt.
The e-mail for the commissioner is on their site.

I haven't been to the Columbus stadium.
What's it like?
I gather it's been a success, but I'm not sure how much "style" it has.

Has anyone on here been there?

FBT... I think his main point was about the style of the stadiums and not just the names.
What MLB has done successfully with Camden Yards, and some of the other new baseball parks is build baseball specific stadiums in the style of the old ballparks of yesteryear.

The atmosphere in these new parks is very different from seeing a game at an all-purpose, 1960's-Functional-architecture style stadium like NY's Shea Stadium.

If they can use the older European stadiums as a model, it would be a great step in the development of the MLS... especially since they want to attract the "family" audience.

Neutral,
I agree with almost everything you said, except I think "crap" is overly harsh. Perhaps Friedel doesn't have what it takes to be first choice for Liverpool, but he has shown himself to be a good keeper at times in his career. I haven't seen him play since his first couple of matches with Liverpool, and he looked very nervous...
Perhaps a change would do him and Liverpool some good?

jsbach
Re: Friedel, yes, sorry I agree 'crap' is a little harsh, and I also agree that a move would do Friedel and Liverpool good, right now he's being linked to Sheff. Wed, while Liverpool are looking to sign Esper Johnsen as a back up for Westerveld. Re: Brad's play - well, I thought in the games he played he wasn't much better than David James - good goalies should inspire confidence in the defence, Calamity James and Brad Friedel did neither. And compared to Friedel, Kasey Keller is on another planet.

Sorry for the off-videogame topic

Neutral,
I would point out that as criticized as James is, he is still playing in the Premiership, so he must be better than some of the others, or he'd be gone.

No argument on Keller. Freidel always has been the No. 2 on USA as far as I remember. I'm not sure he really is now. There are a few other keepers that Arena has been taking looks at.

Being an off year, it's hard to say who's really in.

As for this being an off-video game topic... I've certainly done my part to try to move these conversations to the more appropriate Soccer forum, but no one goes.

Regarding Stadiums,
Not everyone can have the perfect stadium, lets face it, it would be a bit silly if everyone played their home games at Parkhead!

other great stadiums:
The stadium of light
Old Trafford
The Noucamp
Highbury- (not for long though)

Best Surfaces:
Highbury (Good maintence)
Stamford bridge & Wembley (Perfect surfce)

It would be great if they could build a soccer-specific stadium in San Jose (California) for the Earthquakes, but as of now the price of land in the Bay Area makes that somewhat prohibitive. http://www.soccergaming.com/ubb/frown.gif

If one could be built, though, it would be great to have a double-decker type design like many stadiums in England have. That also would be doubtful, since I'm not sure that type of design would hold up to California's strict earthquake-architecture code (ironic, since the name of the team is the San Jose Earthquakes! http://www.soccergaming.com/ubb/biggrin.gif ).


-G

Good idea but these stadium names are generally given due to the surrounding area.

But a good point

Hail Hail
Celtic #1

Re: 1st post "Middle of the Table English Team Liverpool"

They're fifth. The premier league has 20 teams, if they were a middle of the table english team they'd be 10th or 11th. They're also the most succesful team in English history - 18 league titles and 5 European cups.....but yeah...Friedel is crap (that's why they're trying to off load him....Esper Johnson? yes please), but Kasey Keller is brilliant.

I hate to get into an 'off topic' non-fifa/videogame issue, but, yes the MLS as a league isn't up to par with other leagues in terms of high quality players, but that doesn't mean its crap, the MLS IS very exciting (appart from the final), and if you were watching this season u would have seen some AMAZING goals - Ante Razov's 30 yarder for the Chicago Fire was one of the greatest strikes I have ever seen ANYWHERE. Give the MLS a break, it's still in its infancy - but it's still very entertaining.