This is my say about it...........

I think that people are making too much of this Kewell incident...i mean give the guy a break!

There is alot more diving in the Premier League but it doesnt get noticed because it doesnt occur in the penalty area......Alot of people in the Premier League dive in the 18 yard box but the ref sees this and doesnt give a penalty.....but with the Kewell incident the ref gave a penalty. Maybe Kewell shouldnt have dived but the ref gave it and it won the game for Leeds. Maybe you should be blaming the referee because if he saw the dive and didnt give a penalty nothing would be made of it.

im not saying what Kewell did is right but it happens all the time so dont single him out.

And for all you Non English football followers who think that every year the Premiership is only contested by a few teams every year (Man U, Arsenal, Chelsea) maybe you should take a look a who is top of the Premier League????
LEEDS UNITED!!!!

Going for Premiership, UEFA Cup, FA Cup and League Cup.

PS. To all my Russian friends who before the Leeds - Spartak tie were saying how they were going to win and calling Leeds cheats. Spartak are nothing but complaining little babies!

Look i`m probably just as big a fan of Kewell as you, mean the guys a footballing genious. However to me his dive was well a surprise. I mean he`s one of the cleanest and fair players in the world today and when players like him start diving the game is in trouble.

Leeds top of the prem eh, remember Villa about this time last season!

[This message has been edited by GOONERBHOY (edited 12-15-1999).]

Dont worry goonerboy!!

Leeds have the depth to go all the way!!!!!!!

Its Arsenal u gotta worry about!!

Here's my take on the whole controversy:
The only reason this has been so blown up by the press is because Kewell is a foreigner! Owen takes a dive in the Argentina game and does anyone even say a bad word about it? What an ugly bunch of hypocrites they are! They create this controversy to sell papers.

English press has been consistent in blaming the foreigners for all that they perceive to be wrong with the game. They hate foreigners! Some of them were taking stupid racist poll and saying they should kick out all the Swedes from the English leagues if they did not beat Poland!

Kewell,
Depth, don`t go there.........

PP,
What`s this, kicking out the Swedes i havent heard about that.I don`t get what the Swedes have to do with Poland.

Goonerbhoy all Arsenal is a club full of money hungry players who dont care about the clubt hey lay for.......well most of the players there arent like that but they are all the time plagued with controversy like Petit and his complaint how the French are picked on in the Premier League.(which may be true)

Or with nik Anelka who was a great player while he was there but was unahppy and left.
On the other hand Leeds are a close knit club who are YOUNG and have a huge future. There are no big names there but they are top of table and still in all their competitions.

And for your beloved Celtiv i dont really take an interest in the Scottish league but arent Rangers top with 2 game in hand?????

Kewell should be banned for at least 10 matches yet again leeds were looking a draw right in the face as they have done on a few occasions this season and so we resort to cheating to claim victory and 3 points, and to make things worse that toss pot of a manager even came down on Kewells side and said it was a pen, all this acting only makes the players look pratts and i for one would like to see the use of the third referee for insidents like this

ozivillan ...if u think that every player who dives should be banned for 10 games then u will find 5 a side games most weeks.....

and u said 'we' in your post. if that means that u go for Leeds then you should be ashamed of yourself...

Hi
it would be a shame if leeds took the title with a couple by a couple of points, i wonder if mr kewell would go around telling his freinds that they won the title because of his cheating, i once again say that in these curcumstances the use of the 3rd referee would be not only a good thing for the game but also as a deterent to these so called profesionals who look for a penalty,
at the end of the day it is no better than taking drugs, the end result is to win at all costs

thanks
up the Villa
:-)

Polish power and Kewell, did u guys actually see this dive ?? This was without a doubt one of the 'best' dives I ever seen, seeing as he was literally a foot away from the player who allegedly tackled him. There's quite a bit of diving in the prem league, and Owen did dive against Argentina in the WC, but 99% of the time some contact is made. Kewell wasn't even touched. And this is exactly what I hate about soccer, cheats. Players diving when they weren't touched, players falling down in agony after another player touched his face or even came close to it. Just a pity that so many refs are caught out week in and week out. And what Kewell's dive so worse, was his reaction when he got up. He was delighted to have won the penalty, he blatantly admitted to cheating.
Polish power, as for Owen's dive, contact was made, which makes the refs task a bit more difficult. And enough with the press story, remember how they harassed Shearer when they alleged he was gonna quit Newcastle ? After an england game he absolutely went ballistic on the press, it was rather funny in the end.
Kewell, don't call Arsenal one thing and then change it in your next sentence. Leeds hasn't got one player there who's been as committed to their club for as long a time as Adams, Keown, Winterburn, Dixon and Seaman. Controversy ? Do I need to mention Hasselbaink ? And with a bench that includes full internationals throughout I don't think you need to worry bout Arsenal's depth,cept maybe for their defenders with Upson now out for rest of season. Rather worry bout when Radebe or martyn get's injured or suspended or unavailable ( like the african cup of nations for Radebe, that should put him out for almost 4 games )

I think anyone who dives should be suspended.
It makes the player and the team look bad. It bad for the sport and for the fans. Look at what happened to Beckham when Simeone won an Oscar in France.

by the way .... Leeds on top?? Wait ... Arsenal are just getting warmed up.

Woody 007 are you saying that beckham didnt deserve to be sent off????????
he got sent off not because of the injury to simone but because the intent was there......beckham deserved to be slaughtered but the press cause he did one of the stupidest things ive ever seen in a world cup game!!

and canoe......99% of the time people who dive have been hit with some contact.........what are you on???!?!?!?!
have u seen some of the dives that people take?!
i admit hat kewells dive was bad.....BUT THERE ARE ONE SIMILAR IN EVERY GAME!!!!!
the only diference is that the ref didnt pick up on this and awarded a penalty......
Kewell was wrong yes...he is not proud of what de did.....but does this make him a cheat???
Does this make every player who has ever dived a cheat????????????????
Think about what you say before you say it..

And who cares about the internationals you have on the bench what does it count for if u are still 3rd in the table and cant even get past the first round in Champions League?????

Leeds have depth to cover Lucas's absense. Duberry can cover for him or even Haaland can slot back in centre of defence.

The only reason why Arsenal are good is because they have money.........
and they will need it after theyre whole defence retires in a few years.
On the other hand David O'Leary gives his youth first team action unlike Arsene Wenger who gives his spoilt brats a first team spot no matter how baldy theyre performing.......

Woody 007 are you saying that beckham didnt deserve to be sent off????????
he got sent off not because of the injury to simone but because the intent was there......beckham deserved to be slaughtered but the press cause he did one of the stupidest things ive ever seen in a world cup game!!

and canoe......99% of the time people who dive have been hit with some contact.........what are you on???!?!?!?!
have u seen some of the dives that people take?!
i admit hat kewells dive was bad.....BUT THERE ARE ONE SIMILAR IN EVERY GAME!!!!!
the only diference is that the ref didnt pick up on this and awarded a penalty......
Kewell was wrong yes...he is not proud of what de did.....but does this make him a cheat???
Does this make every player who has ever dived a cheat????????????????
Think about what you say before you say it..

And who cares about the internationals you have on the bench what does it count for if u are still 3rd in the table and cant even get past the first round in Champions League?????

Leeds have depth to cover Lucas's absense. Duberry can cover for him or even Haaland can slot back in centre of defence.

The only reason why Arsenal are good is because they have money.........
and they will need it after theyre whole defence retires in a few years.
On the other hand David O'Leary gives his youth first team action unlike Arsene Wenger who gives his spoilt brats a first team spot no matter how baldy theyre performing.......

Canoe,
Well said!

Kewell,
You know i think your the only person i`ve come across that thought Nik Anelka was even half decent, Hey Real fans, arent you glad you paid top dollar for him.

How can you say that Arsenal Players don`t care about the club the defence has been their for nearly 2 decades if that`s not devotion i don`t know what is. And our forigners have turned down amazing offers especially Marc Overmars bieng offered twice their salary but they are faithful!

Goonerboy:
Sweden had to beat Poland in the last game of the qualifiers for EURO 2000 in order for England to qualify for the play-off.

Also it is very hard to prove the guy dived short of him admitting it. He can always say he just tripped, his ankle twisted whatever. Davor Suker got suspenden in Spain few years ago for diving, don't know for how many games however. He called diving an art form and part of the game and was so notorious for diving that even Real fans would boo him.

This problem with diving will never be solved, the first time there was a dive was probably the 1st game after they made a rule that fouls in the 18 meter area were penalties, its just too damn enticing do dive when goals are so hard to come by.

Diving would stop to a degree if they did away with the penalty kick- instead give a direct free kick from the spot of the foul just like anywhere else on the pitch.

DIVING,
I think that if the ref calls a foul and a card or goal scoring opertunity is awarded,for example a spot kick or FK in "Beckham Territory", Then the Fourth official should be able to view a replay of the inncodient before the call is made.
What do you think?

Only place for replay i see is they should have a camera above the net to see if the ball crossed the line.

As to the reviewing of fouls it would be a nightmare to do, just too many borderline fouls, and this would delay the game very much, people screaming and complaining, people rioting in the stands even more.

I don`t mean some mickey mouse opperation i mean officially getting it up to scratch. At least after a video call the players and fans know they havent been cheated!

i agree with polish power

implementing anything like a 3rd offical and the games just take 2 long....what is the referee meant to do if he sees something that he is not sure if it is a dive??
stop play and if it is a dive or maybe he has just slipped, give a dropball and lose the advantage to the attacking team?

there is just too much for teh referee to do and he would have to make too many decisions in a split second. I mean most of the ref's cant even get the simplest decisions right.

For example when Radebe got sent off against Leicester in the Worthington Cup....heskey clearly handballed the ball but Radebe was sent off for a following foul.

Some might see this as a revenge for Kewell's dive and if it is seen that way then maybe this will shut you up.

Leeds are better than Arsenal

Here why....LEEDS HAVE HARRY KEWELL!!!!!!

Kewell - okay, perhaps not 99%, but let's say 90%. Most diving occurs when players make a meal out of a challenge, ie they were barely touched and they fall like a boeing has landed on top of him. But I can honestly say that in the prem league games I watch, diving caused by a challenge a foot away from the player is scarce, very scarce. Ginola dives regularly, but I've never seen him go down with the offending player a foot away.
And to say that Kewell was not proud of it is bollox and you know it. Look at the way he jumped up and hugged his teammates in delight. That sure showed everyone how sorry he was. And yes, it makes him a big time cheat, cause he wasn't even challenged for the ball when he dived. Most penalties come from late challenges and sometimes the attacker just leaves a leg trailing and is thus 'fouled'. Now unless there was a mighty big ant in the grass there that fouled Kewell I'll stick to my 'he cheated to gain leeds 3 points' statement.
"Does this make every player who has ever dived a cheat????????????????" Well, before I answer this, define cheat. To me a player cheats when he tries to gain a distinct advantage for his team by lowdown dirty tactics. Someone who fakes injury to get another player sent off - CHEAT. Player who dives without contact being made to gain a penalty - CHEAT. Player who deliberately uses his hands to either score or prevent a goal - small cheater. So does this make every player that has ever dived a cheat ?? No, only those that do so where no contact was made in an effort to get a penalty awarded.
Arsenal are good because they have money, yeah, that makes sense. That's why Newcastle is down where they are, but why is Sunderland up so high, they haven't got money ??
And funny how everybody thinks Arsenal will fall apart when the famous back five retires. I doubt it , cause we'll have Silvinho, Upson, Weston and Luzhny, with quite a few more youngsters being able to step up if need be.
As for the internationals on the bench, at least when we're in need of a goal near the end we can bring on Henry and Suker, Silvinho and Ljungberg, we don't need to rely on one of our stars diving for a penalty to salvage points or win a game.

polishpower - he dived, but either way he's a cheat, cause if he did trip he should've brought it to the attention of the ref which he didn't do.
The netcamera idea is good.
An idea for the 4th official would be to have someone watch basically what the director gets( mutliple screens and angles ) and if there's doubt concerning a penalty decision the 4th official should comment on what he saw on screen. Even if he watched something like the sky digital channel they have got going where you can get 2 different angles then that'll help too. If he can't give a definitive yes or no, then the ref on field has the call. No watching replays, that would be too inconvenient. The same goes for a sending off. If the two refs are in contact with each other a quick sentence from the 4th ref who watches the tele regarding the situation as he saw it on tv will help eradicate unnecessary red cards and penalties.

I think much of this argument has been stoked by Manchester United fans who have thrown their toys out of the cot over a small incident. If they can't cope with the idea of a side winning matches apart from them, thats fine. Its not as if scum fans haven't had their fair share of lucky refereeing decisions in recents years (Referee: Another minute of stoppage time, Alex? <lick lick> ). As a centre-back myself, that was definitely a penalty. Kewell had Carbonari on the ropes and was brought down. There was no element of diving in there. The referee and the linesman were both in agreeent, so what does that say? To all the tantru-throwing Scum fans out there - grow up and accept that luck is a two-way thing.

I don't think Manchester United fans had anything to do with this, people in general don't like cheaters. Plus Kewell needs a haircut and that is not debatable, it looks like a beaver has died on his head and he spent all day blow drying it, maybe that was weighing him down and once he lost his balance he just fell hard. I don't know, but that was a dive, almost as bad as Overmars against Manchester United last year in the cup semi.

You people are so ****ing naive, every single player that has a chance of having a penalty awarded even if he has to dive for it, will take that chance. Its not like kewell is the only one doing it.

It seems that Kewell is the only one that doesnt know how to dive, thats why hes being flamed, if he was more hipocrit like the rest of the divers or the people flamming him he would have said that he was pushed/triped.

Don't you all think it's funny that this whole issue was brought up by Kewell. Somehow he deemed it necessary to defend the real life Kewell's diving. It wasn't even as if this was a provoked arguement/discussion.

Drinky - Please refrain from making dumb comments. Kewell supports leeds, goonerbhoy is self explanatory, Polish is an american who's too afraid or clever to pick a side ( or mention it to this forum ), ozivillan with his up the Villa remark could only support one team, woody007 seemingly supports Arsenal, which leaves just you and me left up till your post. Now I definitely ain't no man utd supporter, and neither are you. So please let me know what man utd fans stoked this argument ?? And funny that you say it was definitely a penalty, cause even Kewell here admitted to it being a dive and not worthy of a penalty. And if the linesman and ref was in agreement, and it was no dive, then why the hell did the tele show a different thing ?
Belfastboy - Good call on the hair thing.
Edu - not so I'm afraid. If everybody dived everytime they had a chance the sport would be changed to soccer diving and computer games would reflect this by having a diving skill for every player. Now I know this probably gonna be the worst example ever, but when Anelka was through on a keeper he would tap the ball past and slot it home, not tap the ball too far and have his foot caught by the advancing keeper and get a penalty. In the end it comes down to the player and his believe in his talents. If he knows he can score he'll try and do that. If he's low on confidence and doubting his skills he'll rather dive and get the penalty than to try and score and make an utter mess of it all. An example of this type of person is Kanu, take the game against chelsea for instance. Right at the death he had the ball near the box against the line with de goey out to try and stop him. He tapped it past de goey, ran round and slotted home from a narrow angle. Had this been a different player he might've tapped it past and then looked to get a touch from the goalie to go down. Just cause some players cheat don't say all players look to cheat every opportunity.

The argument has been stoked up (in Britain) by Manchester United fans largely, which is why it became so high profile. As for your comment that 'And if the linesman and ref was in agreement, and it was no dive, then why the hell did the tele show a different thing ?', don't be a moron. Neither of them have the benefit of TV replays, and if you see the incident at full speed, rather than the super-slo-mo that TV stations served up, then you'll see why the referee, linesman, and myself believed it was a penalty.

Canoe- Do you watch soccer games at all? since when strikers try to dive when they are that close to the goal in those 2 cases that you mention.

At least 2 or 3 times in a game we see player diving OUTSIDE the box for a foul and at least once inside the box when he doesnt have a chance at scoring (on a cross or surrounded by defence) but in most cases the referee notice the dive and warns the players or give him a yeallow card.

And most of those dives happens when the defence is shoulder to shoulder with the striker and its very hard to run like that and even harder scoring.

Drinky, as an alleged centre-back who claims that it was definitely a penalty you sure were wrong. Firstly, while watching the match at full speed I thought it was a dive. The fact that the linesman and ref was in agreement doesn't make it a correct one does it ? I find it very funny that you still cling to the it was a penalty thing when everybody else has recognised it to be a dive and not worthy of a penalty. As for man utd fans stoking up the dive, I should definitely contact Sky sports cause they certainly thought it was a dive and made a lot of noise bout it, I just didn't know they were man utd fans.

Edu - Nope, I don't watch soccer games at all. I read newspapers and base all my arguments on that.
As for the 2 cases, Nic anelka was more a general comment as he did that on many occassions and never dived. But this is one of the most common dives, the one where the ball was tapped past the keeper with the keeper already sliding in to stop it, but the attacker just let's himself get fouled by the outstretched arms of the keeper. Need an example, Argentina vs England WC. But which team and what player, seeing as I forgot to read the newspaper that day.
As for Kanu, did u actually watch the game or did u read bout it in the newspaper like me ?? Kanu was outside the box when de goey met him, on the goalline. De goey couldn't touch the ball for obvious reasons, so Kanu touched it past him, got the ball just inside the box, still very close to the goalline and without hesitating curled his shot in.
You say that players dive when they don't have a chance at scoring ? Let's take the Chelsea Arsenal game again, Kanu got a low cross in the box, surrounded by defenders, and what did he do ? He controlled it like only he can with thos no 11s, dragged the ball to the side, slipped past a defender and hammered it past de goey.
I've never said diving doesn't exist or that players don't dive or anything like that, but you made it sound( or rather you said ) like every single player that has a chance of having a penalty awarded even if he has to dive for it. I'm sorry, but there are many players out there who wouldn't dive even if given the opportunity to do so. Just cause some players cheat don't say everybody does.

Is that the same Sky Sports that tried to buy Manchester United for £623 million recently? I wouldn't trust their opinions. The slo-om caera shows, if you watch carefully, that there is contact. If you are up on your laws of physics, then you'll probably see that the smallest piece of contact will send something of that sort of momentum to the ground. If contact is made, its a penalty. And contact was made. You can talk examples and replays and rubbish, but that is the bottom line, and Carbonari made contact with Kewell. Full stop.

The blatant diving could be easilly be eliminated. For a blatant dive where there is no contact you get a very long ban [1year 2years life] I don't care how long exactly, just a really long time that you would never want to do it because it would basically end your career. I guarantee you, no one would be diving without contact.

If the dive isn't caught during the game they should look a the tape from all angles after the game just so players know they can't get away with it.

To try and limit less blatent diving where there is some contact there should be more refs. There should be a ref behind each goal to look at the game from an angle the other ref can't see.

If a player is rolling around in agony he should not be able to come back for 5 minutes. If he is really injured then he needs this time to rest but if he is faking he is hurting his team.

Gregolato what are you talking about 1 year ban? well it will never happen so not even worth discussing. I do like the 5 minute idea, but for the person who commited the foul!

What about the other side of the coin, the "professional fouls" when the last defender brings down the striker from behind, or when defender uses intentional hand to stop the ball from going in the net, or how about keepers leaving the line before the penalty kick is taken? Someone once said i'll stop diving when the defenders stop fouling me... my point is both sides cheat and its up to the refs to punish the cheaters. Red cards and reasonable suspensions would do that.

I have to agree with canoe, the slotting of the ball past the keeper or defender and then dragging your back foot to cause contact with defender or goalkeepers arm is very common form of the dive. If you ever saw those stupid shoot outs in MLS, Roberto Donadoni would use that move to get penalties all the time, it was his signature move!

I saw only the long angle real time of the kewell goal and it looked like a foul to me. However I did not see the two angle super slow mo replays so I take everyone's word for it.

I have to say it is strange because sometimes a player will try to score, but at another time the same player will take a dive. Case in point Ronaldo. The man made his name for being a player who would not go down even when defenders were hanging on his back. But now sometimes he takes a dive. Maybe its the coaches at Inter...

By the way- my team is in the 4th Division and no one here im sure ever heard of it, and Metro Stars.

[This message has been edited by PolishPower (edited 12-18-1999).]

The other night at 6-a-side a guy got sent off for a challenge on me. I thought it was clean (it was) so i was just getting up to play on when the ref blows the whistle and sends the guy off because my teamates were protesting. Now i was disgusted with my fellow teamates and by the decision just as much as the other guy and after the game he came and shook my hand and said fackin ref eh. and i explained how clean i tought it was, and that he only called it cause of my team mates, and we lodged a complaint about the ref. So no hard feelings and everyone just hates the ref.

But thinking of that it made me wonder what kind of person would actually dive and get this player sent off for doing nothing wrong. theres nothing better than seeing a player sent off for diving lets see more of it.

Referees are in an extremely hard position, making tough calls that decide games. Take, for example, Var der Sar's heroic block with his chest (outside of pen. area) which the referee questionably sent him off for on account of alleged handball. You can blame the referee, but he is in a nearly impossible situation, taking the heat if he makes a mistake...same goes for Kewell.

Regarding his dive, I don't think there should be any punishment more extreme than a yellow card for faking. If you like it or not, it's part of the game and evidently Kewell was talented enough to use it wisely. Even as a fan of a club that's contending with Leeds for Championship, I must admit that this dirty yet effective ploy was, soccer-wise, a smart move on behalf of Kewell and not something he should be punished on.

--Also, players who regularly throw theatricals get a reputation and soon referees start not believing them - see ManU vs. Internazionale Milan in last year's UEFA Champion League's quarter finals, where the referee ignored many fakes by the Italians...

Anybody else watch the game against Chelsea today? Leboef is a dirty **** and definitely deserved the red he got.

Drinky, is this the same sky sports that didn't buy man utd, but recently negotiated a 5% stake in Sunderland ? For the record, if I had that big a$$ amount of money then I would definitely have bought that richest of rich clubs man utd. It's business to them, you don't go flashing bout millions when you merely like a team, no matter who you are.
As for the slo-mo, didn't see that. I saw the match live, saw the highlights on best of british and saw the incident on Sky. From the replays I saw I couldn't see any contact, but maybe a different angle could prove me wrong. How bout directing me to a pic of the alleged contact.
I don't agree that contact made-penalty. Contact made + dive = penalty. Foul in box = penalty, that's how I understand the rule.

Greglato, are u an aspiring football player frustrated at lack of opportunities ? Cause that's the only reasoning I can see for giving players long bans like you propose.
The ref on the goalline or just behind it sounds good. That will then be 5 officials on the pitch, but if it can help prevent some diving and controversy, I'm all for it.

Polish, is your referal to Ronaldo not more proof of my confidence statement ? Look at Ronaldo two years ago, he was literally dragging the defence along on his way to score goals. He was confident then. Now he's not that hot anymore and it shows.

Goonerbhoy, 6-a-side, awesome....we only do 6-a-side practise for fitness. I do play for an indoor footie team, but that's just not the same.

Ah, Sella, you are definitely referring to Ginola too there.

And which incident are you referring to Dirk ? The one where he stood on his foot when Kewell was on the ground, or the three other very blatant incidents ? Either way, Chelsea were fortunate to have had 11 men for such a long period.

Who won today Leeds or Chelsea, say leeds i`m not to fond of chelsea.

Canoe,
I only play the sixes in the offseason [October - January] and i`m really starting to prefer it partly cause it`s at night but also it improves your short game it really gets the mind working you should look around for a league near you.

Leeds 2 Chelsea 0

Saw the higlights from EPL saturday matches today and pretty evident we had 2 more diving incindents. Im referring to K. Phillips in Sunderland-Soouthampton game(pk not converted) and N. Barnby in Watford-Everton game. Were the English tabloids screaming their garbage over these incidents? I dont know...

Personally I think at least 50 percent or maybe as high as 75 percent of all penalties awarded are result of dives taken after minimal to moderate contact.

By the way I saw Chelsea - Leeds and Kewell was booed every time he touched the ball and chants of "cheat" were heard. I guess the tabloids did their job then...

[This message has been edited by PolishPower (edited 12-20-1999).]

First of all I think Kewell should have gotten a yellow card if not red. He clearly dived.

Drinky: I just do not know how you can support such a terrible dive!? I mean Kewell is a good (great) player but when he starts diving like that and starts celebrating when he gets the penalty then there really is something wrong.

Ronaldo has really lost it. He was a great player like 2 years ago (for Barcelona) but now the only time he can score is from the penalty box.

PolishPower: Those are called foul's not dives. If their is minimal contact then I would say it can sometimes count as a dive, but when you are at top speed minimal contact can mean you tumble down to the ground.

Leboef is a dirty git!

Yes and what is a dive exactly, if not another form of foul. After all it is punishable with a free kick and a yellow card just like an intentional hand ball or a vicious tackle.

As to minimal contact causing tumbles, it could happen, like one in a hundred times...

Ever watch a game of Rugby, or NFL? not so easy to get player down if he doesnt want to go down, believe me...

Ok now does everyone think that Kewell is a cheat??!?!
Why isnt everyone calling Lebeouf a cheat after his behavior against kewell?!?!?!!?!?

Time after time he tried to bring down poor harry and even when he was down he had to go and stamp on him. Even the first goal (which Harry magnificently set up) he was brought down..........
So now.......if Lebeouf does all this why ist he a called a cheat?!
Maybe not a cheat but why shouldnt he be banned for a year or whatever else you people said about players that dived be banned for a ridiculously long time!?!?
You say that divin brings down soccer and i agree but surely rough play brings it down more.....Kewell was constantly harassed by Lebeouf the whole game and should have been sent off for his first booking on Kewell....

And Leeds are top!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Kewell
Fouling and cheating are different things. Although i agree with Polish, Leboef the dirty fack didn`t cheat he fouled. Cheating is diving or Hanballing. I don`t think i`ve ever seen Harry Dive before and this shocked me cause he was [and still is] one of my favourite players and i hope he has learned his lesson from the media no to do it again.

Ok Goonerboy i agree with you but when Lebeouf returns to action he wont be booed like Harry was.....I just think that people pay FAR too much attention to diving and not to other issues such as foul play.

Lebeouf's behavior when he was sent off aswell was a disgrace and he should face a hefty ban.

I can't see Leboef sticking around much longer. He will probably get a hefty fine and ban for his actions. Vialli will move Sutton to defense permenently.

Do I know how to call it or what. Vialli announced he was selling Leboef today.

does anybody know how many goals kewell has scored this season for leeds utd

Harry has scored 6 in all competitions

4 in premier league and 2 in UEFA Cup

Polishpower, do remember that players in rugby and NFL are trained to take the tackles while running, cause that's how the game is played. A lot of the times it's the unexpectedness of the contact that causes a player to tumble. If you're expecting to be tackled or knocked or whatever you usually prepare yourself and hence take it better ( some do, not all though ). This is something very hard to explain, but if you've ever played football you should know what I'm talking about.
Kewell, the reason I'm not making a big thing bout Lebouf is because there wasn't someone here defending him and trying to justify he's means and trying to prove that more sinister fouls were committed on the same day. Had you not mentioned the Kewell incident I doubt most here would've made a comment on it.
Dirkdiggler, you are hopefully kidding bout the Sutton move, cause he sucks royally in front of goal either side of the team. Maybe a nice run in the reserves should clear his head and get his backside into gear.

No I'm not kidding about Sutton. If you watched the game you'll have noticed Vialli moved him to defense for a decent portion of the game. He has also been doing this for a lot of other games. From what I saw he doesn't make a bad defender.

The Lebeouf problem was abit different. He did not cheat he fouled. I think he should have been sent off for that first challenge if not for the second (that the ref didn't even notice) just before the first goal. Anyway why would Lebeouf make such ugly challenges on Kewell, the answer is probably because he was mad and thought Kewell was a cheat. That is not an excuse though.

PolishPower: Youre right about that, many players do go down abit extremly from a small challenge. But for them it doesn't matter, the only thing they care about is winning the game (I am not reffering to all players, just the ones that dive and cheat alot).

Diving (cheating) has sadly become part of the game, but you really start to wonder what is happening when Kewell (who used to be clean) starts diving. I think people pay more attention to Kewells dive because he used to be a very clean good guy.

Canoe I know exactly what you mean, in American Football the whole point is to not go down at all costs, no such incentive in Soccer. And yes I know from experience as I played some high school soccer.

Also I think some might not realize that even a small kick to your foot does tend to throw you off balance and make a tumble, which is why tripping is a 10 yard penalty in American Football.