OK. I am still scratching my head on why is that FIFA2003, for all of its flaws in the gameplay department still outsells PES2 by a great margin. After all, it was only one year ago when PES edge FIFA2002 in terms of sales. But this year, the tide has turned around. FIFA outsells PES2 by a margin of 2:1. This includes both the PS and PS2 version. The gap is growing everyday. I mean PES2 has its shares of flaws too but it is still light years ahead of FIFA2003. What does KONAMI need to do to beat EA at sells???
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Here is an interesting article about FIFA2003 and PES2 sales.
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?section_name=ret&aid=1068

all KONAMI needs are licences - if they get the licences, success = guaranteed.

tv commercials, mag ads, better web site would be nice too.

one more thing, KONAMI needs SONY to handle the publishing and some good campagin.

hmm.. they've got superstars on their packages... that's all :D

Maybe you should try:

Sales of (WE6+PES2+WE6FE) VS Sales of fifa 2003.

Originally posted by jumbo
all KONAMI needs are licences - if they get the licences, success = guaranteed.

tv commercials, mag ads, better web site would be nice too.

one more thing, KONAMI needs SONY to handle the publishing and some good campagin.

On every point you made, jumbo, I couldn't agree more. Konami must get a FIFA license to take this game to the next level. They must also do a MUCH BETTER job marketing the game. How the hell do they expect WE6I to do well here in the states if no one except the hardcore footie sim fans know that this game even exists???

Hi,

I can think of some possible factors.

1) Brand name recognition. FIFA soccer has incredible brand name recognition, and this is reinforced by the marketing efforts of EA Sports.

2) And this interacts with 1) Konami, especially in North America but probably in Europe as well, does a a piss poor job of marketing. The seem to feel that a game should sell itself, even if many people haven't heard of it.

3) Konami not obtaining or utilizing licenses to the fullest extent possible. There really isn't any excuse for not including more teams and/or real leagues. Master League is as addictive as crack but I would still like to have the option of starting up a real English league, complete with teams ranging from the premiership all the way to divsion 2 (or even 3!). Imagine if we had real leagues with the transfer/income features of Master League. Or, better yet, imagine a game which combines the match engine of winning eleven/PES2 with Championship Manager. OTH, perhaps its better that we not imagine that as it could possibly create an explosion of bodily fluids!<g>

4) General lack of ambition that seems to afflict Konami. I mean, here they are with a game that absolutely wipes the floor with FIFA. You'd think they would understand that with a few additional features they could have an absolute strangle hold on the footy market.

Best wishes,

Doug

Originally posted by iceboy

Sales of (WE6+PES2+WE6FE) VS Sales of fifa 2003.

ye!

i wonder what's gonna happen later this year, when PES3 and FIFA2004 go head to head again,

YO: i think i got it, i just thought of something... i went to polish forums and it looks like 95% of ppl there plays pirated/warez/backup/imported games- both PES2 & WE6:FE.

just think about it?

i'm sure there're more WE/PES players than FIFA players in Europe - i guess most of them just plays imported / burned games.

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how does that sound?

I agreed with all of the points.
Here is my take on the possible reasons.
1. Official license makes a big difference. I can't think of one big reason why FIFA so well.
2. MARKETING. Beyond's Japanese border, WE/PES games get little if none. KONAMI would have done well if they had partnered with NIKE for WE6I instead of UMBRO. We all know what a marketing powerhouse NIKE is. This would have been cool because NIKE have a lot of stars as their clients. Imagine all of the ads possibilities. Again marketing is a big factor in selling games.
3. Lack of fans input. I know there is a language barrier because the developer are Japanese. But it would be cool if we can have our inputs as what should be in the game. The PES2 official site is pathetic. They have not update anything on it. Even my sister can do that lame website with Frontpage.

Anyone who plays japanese versions of PES2, which is the winning eleven series, knows that Winning eleven is better.. I don't know how to explain it properly though. Let me try, WE6 is more smooth and responsive than PES2.. and WE6FE is even better. If I live in Europe, I'll get my set modded, wait for WE7 and patch it (provided its CD version, usually Jap versions are CD because there's only 1 language in it.)

If having more teams means they'll all play the same, forget it. Just get licences and hire a marketing company from England or something.

the same reason NHL 2003 probably outsold NHL2k3....

NHL2k3 is like 3 times the better game..... actually I really don't know if NHL 2003 outsold it.. but I'm guessing it did just bc it's EA. that is the reason.. it's very simple.....


for example, everyone knows FIFA...... everyone knows Madden.....

Originally posted by steveee
the same reason NHL 2003 probably outsold NHL2k3....

NHL2k3 is like 3 times the better game..... actually I really don't know if NHL 2003 outsold it.. but I'm guessing it did just bc it's EA. that is the reason.. it's very simple.....


for example, everyone knows FIFA...... everyone knows Madden.....

That's a good point and nhl2k3 blows away nhl2003. But at least companies are competing with EA and in time people may switch. The only game that is good by EA is Madden IMO.

Ezio

Originally posted by ezio
That's a good point and nhl2k3 blows away nhl2003. But at least companies are competing with EA and in time people may switch. The only game that is good by EA is Madden IMO.

Ezio

PES outsold FIFA2002 in Europe the year before. So the name EA is NOT the main reason.

I agreed that Madden and NCAA Football 2003 are the only two high quality sports games EA produced last year.

I agree.

there are some other sports games that EA does pretty good with though.... like Tiger WOods Golf and Nascar Thunder...

but with the main sports..... Madden is the only I consider the best....

hockey = NHL2k3
Soccer = WE/PES/ISS...
basketball = NBA2k3.... however, NBA Live was much better this year and a lot of people do like it too...
Baseball= well imo.. there is no clear cut best in baseball.... but it for sure wasn't EA's triple play series.. that was the worst imo. this year though they got MVP.... and it's better than TRIple Play series hopefully.... EA was smart to get rid of the Triple Play bran name bc it was getting such a bad rap and how it was the suckiest baseball game. lol

Originally posted by V-9
I agreed with all of the points.
Here is my take on the possible reasons.
1. Official license makes a big difference. I can't think of one big reason why FIFA so well.
2. MARKETING. Beyond's Japanese border, WE/PES games get little if none. KONAMI would have done well if they had partnered with NIKE for WE6I instead of UMBRO. We all know what a marketing powerhouse NIKE is. This would have been cool because NIKE have a lot of stars as their clients. Imagine all of the ads possibilities. Again marketing is a big factor in selling games.
3. Lack of fans input. I know there is a language barrier because the developer are Japanese. But it would be cool if we can have our inputs as what should be in the game. The PES2 official site is pathetic. They have not update anything on it. Even my sister can do that lame website with Frontpage.


I agree with you mostly. Konami have to pay that extra money to get the license for real player names etc. Editing, even if easy, is a pain although it hasn't particularly bothered me much when I have a player called Lacos rather than Calos. I guess the vastly outdated squads is an issue for some people and that wouldn't take too much work. I think that may be a bigger issue than the anagram names.

Umbro are virtual nobodys in the world of soccer outside of England. They do need to get Nike or failing that, Adidas.

Fan input - they seem ot have done a good job outside of fan input on most of the stuff. The website is pathetic. It's starts off cool but doesn't have any content.

PES3/WE7, as the full interview with the Konami head says in theo ther thread, is going to be better graphically, they are going to try and get the licenses and also work on other improvements.

It could be a lot worse for us. At least we just need to tweak things to get an 100% awesome game, think of the poor FIFA fans. They can't even header the fraking ball!

I have no idea why FIFA sells other than from brand recognition, better marketing (Konami's marketing outside of Japan is almost non-existent!) and history. If the game was selling based on quality of gameplay it would have sold about twenty copies worldwide!

NBA live is the basketball version of FIFA. Unrealistic gameplay, fast breaks every time down the court and no defense at all. It's a nightmare to play. Even LIVE 95 had better gameplay. The graphics and animations do blow NBA2K3 out of the water, but the gameplay is so bad it renders it unplayable.

Originally posted by V-9
PES outsold FIFA2002 in Europe the year before. So the name EA is NOT the main reason.



Well to be honest the ps2 versions of this game serie havent been that good as we might have expected.
When we look at the AI it actually gone MUCH worse. Belive it or not, but try out WE2002 and you will see what i mean. How is this possible? How is it that they created a completely inferiour AI on a Ps2 game (PES2) compared to a older psx title (WE2002).
Normally we would kind of expect the oposite, no?

The balance and AI isnt up to the previous level simply.

For the more experienced ISS player, PES on ps2 probably was a slightly dissapointment, PES2 was a huge one!
I think its a shame PES2 isnt selling less, actually.

In my eyes the only WE/PES title that deserves credit is WE6. Still even this title have its fair amount of flaws. Much to high pace and less advanced attackign AI.
Two points that are much better in the psx version. WE2002 has a speed slider and a better attacking ai of the cpu.
Migth i add, ofcourse i still prefers WE6...