White House says, "The opening stages of the disarmament of the Iraqi regime have begun." President Bush to address nation at 10:15 p.m. Details soon. - CNN.com

I am anti-war, marched on anti-war marches, Im sitting here watching the BBC and you see flashes, hear guns firing, hear bombs e.t.c it just hits you deep down. I'm just frustrated that we did not have a bigger say in this.

Anyways, I'm not really worried about his speech. Nobody can justify the killing of thousands of people. If 1% of the bombs are off target, that's 30 bombs that will go astray. Could your town handle 3 bombs let alone 30?

Keep us updated Joe. Ta.

Originally posted by voetballiefhebb
Nobody can justify the killing of thousands of people.

Tell that to Saddam and he'll do to you what he did to the rest!

SADDAM MUST GO! - This is the ONLY way it's going to happen! as sad as it seems... I dislike wars... but this is the ONLY way we're going to resolve this issue!

I have the BBC World Service on the radio...do any US news services have any reporters in Baghdad? Just wondering if what sort of news is getting thru there.

Originally posted by Jono82
Tell that to Saddam and he'll do to you what he did to the rest!

SADDAM MUST GO! - This is the ONLY way it's going to happen! as sad as it seems... I dislike wars... but this is the ONLY way we're going to resolve this issue!
BUSH MUST GO! - .........fill in the rest.

Originally posted by rhizome17
I have the BBC World Service on the radio...do any US news services have any reporters in Baghdad? Just wondering if what sort of news is getting thru there.

They did earlier today (CNN and NBC I have seen), but now we're just getting photo shots of Baghdad.

Originally posted by rhizome17
I have the BBC World Service on the radio...do any US news services have any reporters in Baghdad? Just wondering if what sort of news is getting thru there.

i think so... they are updating us on what's going on, but they aren't saying much.... they are just saying that Bush will give us more details in 2 minutes :S

EDIT: He's on

MAin Iraqi radio serivce frequency has been taken over by US military now, broadcasts in Arabic but not from within Iraq.

Originally posted by Jono82
Tell that to Saddam and he'll do to you what he did to the rest!

SADDAM MUST GO! - This is the ONLY way it's going to happen! as sad as it seems... I dislike wars... but this is the ONLY way we're going to resolve this issue!

Your missing the point. If Bush and Blair has problems with Saddam, deal with it themselves, don't bring me into it. Don't bring the other millions of people into it. Bottom line is, don't bring the public into it. Nobody has the right to take my life, just like nobody has the right to take yours. The guilty should be punished, not the evil.

I have issues with George Bush, does that give me the right to go and commit something on the scale of 9/11? No.

What a dumb speech and what a dumb operation name. It definitely sounds like Bush made it up himself.

looks like operation dubya's search for oil is on, and i aint liking it one bit:kader:

have it on nbc right now, and baghdad looks post-apocalyptic atm. i wonder if any of the news outlets will choose to use outkast's song "b.o.b.", because unfortunately, dubya's gonna get his way (obviously y'all know what that stands 4)?

SKY PILOT
THE ANIMALS

He blesses the boys as they stand in life
The smell of gun grease and their bayonets they shine
He's here to help them all that he can
To make them feel wanted he's a good holy man.
Sky pilot, sky pilot, how high can you fly
You'll never never never reach the sky.
He smiles at the young soldiers
Tells them it's all right
He knows of their fears in the forthcoming fight
Soon there'll be blood and many will die
Mother and fathers back home they will cry.
Sky pilot, sky pilot, how high can you fly
You'll never never never reach the sky.
He humbles a prayer and it ends with a smile
The order is given they move down the line
But hell stay behind and he'll meditate
But it won't stop to bleeding or is the hate.
As the young men move out into the battle zone
He feels good with god you're never alone
He feels so tired and he lays on his bed
Hopes the men will find courage
In the words that he's said.
Sky pilot, sky pilot, how high can you fly
You'll never never never reach the sky.
You're soldiers of god you must understand
The fate of your country is in your young hands
May god give you strength do your job really well
If it all was worth in only time it will tell.
In the morning they returned with tears in their eyes
The stench of death drifts up to the skies
A young soldier so it looks at the sky bright
Remember the words thou shalt not kill.

You know, if they happened to be successful with this "intelligence strike," where apparently the fighters and bombers changed course in the no fly zone to attack a target of oppurtunity. Imagine that, what would you say to that? One bombing of a military building and we find Hussein is dead...wow. That would be cool and then who could complain? I doubt it was him, but hey...

Originally posted by zul-aid
SKY PILOT
THE ANIMALS

If it all was worth in only time it will tell.


It is always worth it. When it comes down to it, they say, it's never about the politics or the country--it's about your brother next to you. It is worth it then. Screw politics.

Yeah, if it happened that quickly and easily, it would be great...even I would be ok with that. and we would wonder why it hasn't happened in the last 12 years...

No communications on Saddam's radio channel...

But Iraqi TV has a song on in praise of Saddam...

ANd now that second air strike...

I have had "Sky Pilot" for years it was only really popular in Oceania (Aust/NZ) but it sort of reminds me of GWB talking to the troops and once the troops return they ask "why did we kill all those people, why such a huge cost"

Beautiful song - A must download one
The Animals are for downloading songs so I can say it without getting into trouble.

Sky Pilot by The Animals ("House of the Rising Sun" Album i think).

Originally posted by rhizome17
But Iraqi TV has a song on in praise of Saddam...

Yes, it's propaganda I would think...

Two songs by Metallica

Disposable Heroes

Bodies fill the fields I see, hungry heroes end
No one to play soldier now, no one to pretend
running blind through killing fields, bred to kill them all
Victim of what said should be
a servant `till I fall

Soldier boy, made of clay
now an empty shell
twenty one, only son
but he served us well
Bred to kill, not to care
just do as we say
finished here, Greeting Death
he's yours to take away

Back to the front
you will do what I say, when I say
Back to the front
you will die when I say, you must die
Back to the front
you coward
you servant
you blind man

Barking of machinegun fire, does nothing to me now
sounding of the clock that ticks, get used to it somehow
More a man, more stripes you bare, glory seeker trends
bodies fill the fields I see
the slaughter never ends

Soldier boy, made of clay
now an empty shell
twenty one, only son
but he served us well
Bred to kill, not to care
just do as we say
finished here, Greeting Death
he's yours to take away

Back to the front
you will do what I say, when I say
Back to the front
you will die when I say, you must die
Back to the front
you coward
you servant
you blind man

Why, Am I dying?
Kill, have no fear
Lie, live off lying
Hell, Hell is here


I was born for dying

Life planned out before my birth, nothing could I say
had no chance to see myself, moulded day by day
Looking back I realize, nothing have I done
left to die with only friend
Alone I clench my gun

Soldier boy, made of clay
now an empty shell
twenty one, only son
but he served us well
Bred to kill, not to care
just do as we say
finished here, Greeting Death
he's yours to take away

Back to the front
you will do what I say, when I say
Back to the front
you will die when I say, you must die
Back to the front
you coward
you servant
you blind man

Back to the front.

One

I can't remember anything
Can't tell if this is true or dream
Deep down inside i feel to scream
This terrible silence stops me

Now that the war is through with me
I'm waking up i can not see
That there is not much left of me
Nothing is real but pain now

Hold my breath as i wish for death
Oh please god, wake me

Back in the womb its much too real
In pumps life that i must feel
But can't look forward to reveal
Look to the time when I'll live

Fed through the tube that sticks in me
Just like a wartime novelty
Tied to machines that make me be
Cut this life off from me

Hold my breath as i wish for death
Oh please god, wake me
Now the world is gone I'm just one
Oh god, help me hold my breath as i wish for death
Oh please god help me

Darkness imprisoning me

All that i see
Absolute horror
I cannot live
I cannot die
Trapped in myself
Body my holding cell

Landmine has taken my sight
Taken my speech
Taken my hearing
Taken my arms
Taken my legs
Taken my soul
Left me with life in hell

Ha, I was just watching the CBC (Canadian Broadcasting Corporation), and they seemed to have uncovered the whole story as well as Bush's plans to attack full-fledged tomorrow well before all the US stations.
And, the only thing they are doing is poking around outside the Whitehouse:crazyboy:

oops sorry I made another thread...................Rhizome.........ABC, CNN are reporting that the strike was a "decapitation' strike aimed at taking out Hussein.......we'll have to wait and see the results.........if possitive I will be jumping for joy.....I,magine if they got him in one scoop.........


I wont be much too joyious until I see what happened

:( It has begun.

Lets hope the CBC find the roadmap for peace in Palestine too, cos Bush has misplaced it.

Originally posted by KingPaulV
oops sorry I made another thread...................Rhizome.........ABC, CNN are reporting that the strike was a "decapitation' strike aimed at taking out Hussein.......we'll have to wait and see the results.........if possitive I will be jumping for joy.....I,magine if they got him in one scoop.........


I wont be much too joyious until I see what happened

Yeah, but I would be surprised if they got him so easily...but like you say, I would be happy enough if that was all it took. Trouble is, if he has all those doubles...and apparently he hasn't slept in the same place on consecutive nights since the last gulf war.

Originally posted by rhizome17
Lets hope the CBC find the roadmap for peace in Palestine too, cos Bush has misplaced it.
....

Now they are showing a pretty cool and detailed bio on both sides military/weaponry.


edit: the US soldier may be packing ladders, battering-rams, and battleaxes if they go into Baghdad....seriously.
I can handle that kind of war: Whatever happened to good old knights, castles, archers, scurvy, the plauge, and the like?

This war is gonna be so bloody. If Iraq do use the tatic like the Soviets did in WW2, Fortifing them selves at Slatingrad.

Here in Australia we are getting live feeds of Fox News and CNN on our Sky News problem is all I have to do is to turn to the next 2 channels and I get Fox News and CNN (actual channels themselves)

Three Channels and the same **** -

THERE ARE THREATS OF AUSSIES AND AMERICANS GONNA BE KILLED IN INDONESIA YET THEY REPORT THE WAR - INDONESIA IS THE HUB FOR ISLAMIC EXTREMISTS.

Originally posted by ImmUniTy
This war is gonna be so bloody. If Iraq do use the tatic like the Soviets did in WW2, Fortifing them selves at Slatingrad.

Enermy at the Gate style :( good movie pretty scary stuff though

There are only three principles of warfare: Audacity, Audaciy, and Audacity!

- Gen. George C. Patton

Come on, boys, and grab your sabers
Come on, boys, and ride with me.
Give the cry of "Garry Owen,"
Make your place in history.

- Author unknown, Vietnam 1965

There is many a boy here today who looks on war as all glory, but, boys, it is all hell.

- William Tecumseh Sherman

War is a crime. Ask the infantry and ask the dead.

- Ernest Hemingway

I did not mean to be killed today.

- dying words of Vicomte de Turenne, at the Battle of Salzbach, 1675

In war, truth is the first casualty.

- Aeschylus

Only the dead have seen the end of war.

- Plato

We few, we happy few, we band of brothers,
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother.

- Shakespeare, Henvy V, Act IV, Scene 3

They have a movie on Stalingrad?
How old is it? and Whos in it?

(Back to the topic)

What if Saddam has already been taken out? That was the objective with this Strike.

Just a suggestion to one of the admins to Sticky this topic, because we are going to get heap of War Threads, or a subforum, so the other forum isnt flooded with topics on war. Its very depressing :(

Ahh crap, they've started bombing Baghdad already. We need to get rid of Bush pronto before he wreaks more havoc, quick someone hand me a pretzel.

Man, i'm woried about my relo's back in Iraq, most of them live in Mosul which is around 400 km north of Baghdad but i've got a few cousins in the capital. I managed to call up a few of them yesterday afternoon (baghdad time), its probably the last time i'll get the chance to talk to them before communications facilities get decimated.
Surprisingly they didn't sound too worried (they were making kebabs in the backyard) but they tried to change the subject everytime i started talking about the war, there's no doubting that they're atleast pretty nervous about whats to come, this is outright occupation, unlike any war before it.

Baghdad now seems like a ghost town, everyone who could afford to leave the place already did, almost all fled to Syria, the only country willing to take them in so far, but the Syrians closed their borders yesterday and Turkey and Iran are hopefully expected to open up theirs to refugees later on.

May God have mercy on the innocent civilians cause sure as hell nobody else will.

Enermy at the Gate

Jude Law and Rachel Wiez

A Russian Sniper and A German Sniper go at each other

There is Enemy at the Gates, plus a better one, but older, simply called 'Satalingrad'.

The Iraqi army is going to surrender pretty quickly. I was kind of cracking up when they said the battle strategy was just to bypass Iraqi troops and go straight to Bagdad, then just lay seige to it, so I don't think many people will die actually. I guess the elite fighting troops couldn't surrender fast enough in the Gulf War. I'm not worried about casualties, I'm just worried that the U.N. is now pretty irrelevant.

How long you think this war will last?
I think 5 - 6 weeks.

They will get bogged up in Bagdhad, the other cities and major places will simply just get rolled over.

Originally posted by Nimreitz
I'm not worried about casualties, I'm just worried that the U.N. is now pretty irrelevant.

135 American Soldiers died in the first Gulf War, and so did endless Iraqi civilians;

America has bigger and better bombs this time

Also during the Afghanistan war American Pilots were given speed to keep them awake and going during long flights problem was everytime they saw a light on the ground they would shoot first before comfermation about the target they ended up killing afew Canadian allies that way.:(

Originally posted by ImmUniTy
How long you think this war will last?
I think 5 - 6 weeks.

unless Saddam comes up with something really.... 'kamikaze', I think it will be sooner than that....

The Battle for Baghdad won't last long. The real war, which will be fraught with pauses and then bursts of conflict, will probably last for years. And if you include the toppling of the Taliban in Afghnistan in all this, then I guess it has already been going for some time.

So...years.

Rhizome. would you know the size of the Iraqi army? If not, im going to get some figures, just wondering.

The main conscript army is about 435,000, not sure about republican guard.

Republican Guard is about another 50 000 I believe.

Iraq's army consists of 350,000 active soldiers and an estimated 500,000 reserves.

Just read that.

IF and this is a big IF>............IF Saddam is out and/or his command and control structure is greatly damaged (ministers or generals dead) The war will be over in quicker and less bloody fashion than expected......

For those who cried out that the US wants to kill as many civilians as possible a succesful completion of this opertaion would send the spit right back to their faces.....But that's not really relevant at this point.....My brother in law is there....Two good friends are there (Tank Crews) and One of my good buddies is a Marine with the 1st Marine Division, First wave....God bless and protect them and all the men and women in uniform who volunteered to be there....I know I will be praying tonight

The big blast is going to happen non Saturday.

Tomorrow "Friday"
Is a Muslim pray day, and the Amercians have clearly stated they wont strike. Saturday will be the day when they open up the "light show"

I know one thing, I don't want my taxes going towards this war.

I don't think anyone here said the US wanted to kill as many Iraqi civilians as possible. I think people did take issue with the fact that they are referred to as collateral damage.

Vera
Does anybody here remember Vera Lynn?
Remember how she said,
That we would meet again,
Some sunny day.
Vera!
Vera!
What has become of you?
Does anybody else in here feel the way I do?


Bring the Boys Back Home
Bring the Boys Back Home
Bring the Boys Back Home
Don't Leave The Children On Their Own, no, no
Bring the Boys Back Home

Has the Bush adminstration given a list of these "35" nations who say they are part of the willing?

I don't think anyone here said the US wanted to kill as many Iraqi civilians as possible. I think people did take issue with the fact that they are referred to as collateral damage.


Right, but civilian casualties have been called collateral damage since the days after World War I when they became more frequent, it is military jargon.........surely because Bush is an arrogant pig people take more offense to that terminology nowadays

Anyway, the US now owe two things to the world, now that they have gone in.

1. Saddam goes, and a fair and democratic system is set up, and there is no coercion and intervention if the Iraqis vote for someone that the US doesn't like (Venezuela, anyone.)

2. A mass exposure of any WMD, and I want to see a comprehensive amount of footage, I want to see the WMD in all their glory, not a few warheads, but detailed accounts of the chemical and biological weapons programs, nuclear arms development, and links to Al Queda. I don't want no more speculation, I want documents, I want laboratories, I want arsenals to be uncovered and opened up to the worlds press to photograph and record in all their glory.

I want EVIDENCE.

And I don't mean someone standing in front of a demolished building saying 'oh, this used to be the weapons plant but we bombed it', cos that proves nothing.

I'm Venezuelan so I definetly know what you are talking about....My father is still there:( :(

Originally posted by ImmUniTy
Has the Bush adminstration given a list of these "35" nations who say they are part of the willing?

No. He just still has not caught on how to count yet. I don't believe 35 nations back him. If they do, it will probably be small nations like Angola, Netherlands Antilles e.t.c.

http://www.militarycity.com/map/

look here is where the troops are

Originally posted by KingPaulV
I'm Venezuelan so I definetly know what you are talking about....My father is still there:( :(

Really??? I have been probing and prompting for a response to the Venezuela situation on these boards, but maybe it was before you came along...cos noone seems to have taken the prompt.

Nicaguara, (spelling) Afghanistan, Italy, GB, Spain, Portugal, Australia, turkey, Saudi Arabia, etc etc

I'm watching Iraqi television at the moment. Saddam plans to give a live television address.

I know Bush is meeting the Cameroon leader tomorrow.

Originally posted by rhizome17
I know Bush is meeting the Cameroon leader tomorrow.

And since when did Cameroon have oil?

Update:
Iraqi television has gone off air as Saddam was preparing to address Iraq to prove he is alive and well. Reports claim Saddam is dead. Other reports claim a key transmitor was targeted.

Edit:
Iraqi television is now back on air.

whoops ... someone unplugged the transmitter ...

that'd **** him off real bad ... hahaha

George Bush, your global pain in the arse ... hehehe

Christ. If Saddam wanted to kill the Kurds, he should have broadcasted this channel. The music is ****ing terrible. *Oops* it's the Iraqi national anthem.

Erm. That does not look like Saddam at all. Now the channel has gone off-air again. :S Oh, hes back again. :S Meh, now hes rambling on in a speech. Why don't he just say "George Bush, I'm alive, you have failed in your first attacks". :)

He doesnt because the boardcast was taped previously

that anthem is weak ! ...

sorry if I offend anyone, but it was lame in audio quality ... :|

Originally posted by voetballiefhebb
Update:
Iraqi television has gone off air as Saddam was preparing to address Iraq to prove he is alive and well. Reports claim Saddam is dead. Other reports claim a key transmitor was targeted.

Edit:
Iraqi television is now back on air. That address is most likely pre-recorded, and ready for realese when the Amercians attacked.

Would you be that calm? If you were being invaded?

Originally posted by Paul
that anthem is weak ! ...

sorry if I offend anyone, but it was lame in audio quality ... :|
That wasn't the national anthem, its just one of the 10000000000000001 chart-breaking hits that Saddam has released for him every month. And yeah, its not exactly grammy making material. I heard Saddam wanted to sign up Michael Jackson to make him a song but the latter turned it down coz he was worried his plastic nose would melt in the iraqi sun. :p


Originally posted by ImmUniTy
That address is most likely pre-recorded, and ready for realese when the Amercians attacked.

yep, you're probably right but i think it was taken sometime earlier today because he started off reading today's date.


I was watching CBS a little while ago, they were talking with this US congressman, he said that the costs incurred in this war will be covered by Iraqi oil revenues, not to mention the rebuilding of the country. So much for that 'we don't want your oil' speech, huh.

Those of you in America, CSPAN 1 is broadcasting BBC1 right now.
--Pradyut

I think I speak for all Americans when I say good luck to our troops and I hope they return home safely.:)

Just heard there's an anti-war rally amassing in downtown Sydney, i'll be scooting off to there, but i just hope Baghdad will still be around by the time i come back.

Originally posted by ImmUniTy

Would you be that calm? If you were being invaded?

Of course I would. If I panic, what kind of message would that send out?

That I am under pressure and am starting to show it physically and mentally. A crap influence for all the supporters e.t.c.

I don't know why the public is bought into it. If thye have issues, fight each other. I'm sure Don King could let Bush win. Probably from a big cash cheque in King's pocket from Bush's Daddy.
(H)

www.stopwar.org.uk - Anti-war march, London, Saturday. Midday. Same procedures as Feb 15th.

This is what I have been experiencing here in Australia

**flicks to Sky News UK**

News Anchor "How is the feeling over there in northern kuwait, Emma?"

Emma Hird "Im over here with about 300 English soldiers and it looks like im the only woman they have seen for months, how do you think i feel!".

**Flicks to Fox News**

Bill O'Reilly "Ok, up next on the O'Reilly Factor, what the Muslim news channel didnt show you when they broadcasted Saddam Hussien, but first we have a special interview with a man who went to Iraq over 30 years ago and he'll give us some info"

**Flicks to CNN**

News Anchor "Ok we now cross live to the battleground with a special report from Dean Jones, Dean"

Dean "We'll the little heros are trying there best against the blitzcreg but it doesnt seem to be working they have tried everything at the battleground.... full tosses, shot ones the lot..."

News Anchor "Shot ones? Full Tosses?"

Dean "Yeah the master blaster has been giving it to them, the little general out here in the desert like pitch..... and the master has had alot of support from his mates making alot of big partnerships..."

News Anchor "Partnerships? with whom?

Dean "Ohh Shewag, Ganguly, Dravid.... huge total now with India 5/300 after 35 overs remarkable stuff!"

News Anchor "Oops looks like we picked up the wrong feed we actually picked up the cricket world cup, we wouldnt wanna show anything interesting tonite - just the same **** everyone else is!"

**Zulaid turns off TV and heads for SG forum on computer**

I am sick of saying the same thing over and over and over..... I'll try something different:


"KILL that bad old Saddam. He killed those Kurds....... Yeah, there might be innocent casualties...... all those Islamic people are terrorists anyway."

"This war ain't about oil, or ecnomic gain, it is about liberating people. Although, I would only like to liberate people who have oil in their country. I would only like to liberate people when there is more in it for me, so my country can get some dough. I mean, I wouldn't want to help some loser country if I can't get anything from it."

"Saddam Hussein is the only dictator in the world. We are not just helping one country that happens to have oil, rather than helping others, because there are no other dictators."

"Oh well, he is not just a tyrant but he is threatening my life by helping those darn terrorists. Of course he is collaborating Bin Laden, I mean what would the US have to gain, why would they make it up?"

"Pictures of a building's roof means that that building has weapons of mass destruction."

"Iraq is the only country with weapons of mass desctruction. The US has none."

"Well, if Bush is freeing the Iraqi's, he will free all the oppressed people in the world won't he.....?"

"I BELIEVE THE WESTERN MEDIA! THEY ARE NOT BIASED AT ALL! I LOVE CNN AND FOX NEWS! THEY CAN'T BE WRONG!

"Iraqi lives aren't as valuable as my life."

"I love war."

"War doesn't result in death."

"The US won't embezzle oil."

"The US won't apply pressure on other Arabian countries with oil supplies."

"The US won't apply pressure on nearby Palestine so they can help Israel. I mean, the Palestine's are the bad guys. They kill the Jews. They all hate us Westerners. The Palestinians never are killed by Jews. Stories are always one-sided, like the newsman said."



ALL OF THESE STATEMENTS HAVE BEEN SAID WITH THE GREATEST SARCASM! I PROMOTE THE OPPOSITE TO THESE! I JUST WANTED A CHANGE!

:kader:

Remember.

War is spelt oil

20 March 2003

TRANSCRIPT OF THE PRIME MINISTER
THE HON JOHN HOWARD MP
ADDRESS TO THE NATION

E&OE……………………………………………………………………………………

Good evening.

The Government has decided to commit Australian forces to action to disarm Iraq because we believe it is right, it is lawful and it’s in Australia’s national interest.

We are determined to join other countries to deprive Iraq of its weapons of mass destruction, its chemical and biological weapons, which even in minute quantities are capable of causing death and destruction on a mammoth scale.

Iraq has been an aggressor in the past against its neighbours and even its own people. If Iraq is allowed to keep these weapons not only might she use them again but moreover other rogue countries will copy Iraq knowing that the world will do nothing to stop them.

And the more countries that have these weapons - countries run by despotic regimes – the greater becomes the likelihood that these weapons will fall into the hands of terrorists. If that happens can anyone doubt that the terrorists will use them whatever the cost might be?

The attacks on the 11th of September and in Bali showed that international terrorists have no regard for human life no matter what the nationality of their victims may be.

Iraq has long supported international terrorism. Saddam Hussein pays $25,000 to each family of Palestinian suicide bombers who wreak such murderous havoc in Israel. He has sheltered and sponsored many terrorist groups.

International terrorism knows no borders. We have learnt that to our cost. Australia and Australians anywhere in the world are as much targets as any other western country and its people.

Therefore the possession of chemical, biological, or even worse still, nuclear weapons by a terrorist network would be a direct undeniable and lethal threat to Australia and its people.

That is the reason above all others why I passionately believe that action must be taken to disarm Iraq. Not only will it take dangerous weapons from that country but it will send a clear signal to other rogue states and terrorists groups like Al Qaeda which clearly want such weapons that the world is prepared to take a stand.

There’s also another reason and that is our close security alliance with the United States. The Americans have helped us in the past and the United States is very important to Australia’s long-term security.

It is critical that we maintain the involvement of the United States in our own region where at present there are real concerns about the dangerous behaviour of North Korea.

The relationship between our two countries will grow more rather than less important as the years go by.

A key element of our close friendship with the United States and indeed with the British is our full and intimate sharing of intelligence material.

In the difficult fight against the new menace of international terrorism there is nothing more crucial than timely and accurate intelligence. This is a priceless component of our relationship with our two very close allies.

There is nothing comparable to be found in any other relationship – nothing more relevant indeed to the challenges of the contemporary world.

I know that some people are saying that what we have done makes it more likely that terrorists will attack Australia.

Australia has been a terrorist target at least since the 11th of September 2001.

Australia is a western country with western values. Nothing will or should change that. That is why we are a target.

Remember that bin Laden specifically targeted Australia because of our intervention to save the people of East Timor.

Does any Australian seriously suggest that if bin Laden’s warning had come before the East Timor action we should have caved in and changed our policy. That will never be the Australian way.

We believe that so far from our action in Iraq increasing the terrorist threat it will, by stopping the spread of chemical and biological weapons, make it less likely that a devastating terrorist attack will be carried out against Australia.

I want to assure all of you that the action we are taking is fully legal under international law. Back in the early 1990s resolutions were passed by the Security Council authorising military action against Iraq.

That action was only suspended on condition that Iraq gave up its weapons of mass destruction. Clearly we all know this has not happened. As a result the authority to take military action under those earlier resolutions has revived.

America's critics both here and abroad have been both opportunistic and inconsistent. They know and admit that weapons inspectors only returned to Iraq because of the pressure of the American military build-up. Yet they have persistently criticised American policy.

Apparently they believe that a quarter of a million American, British and indeed Australian troops should stay in the desert doing nothing indefinitely. We all know that if the troops had been withdrawn Iraq would have immediately stopped its minimal co-operation with the inspectors.

Another point I’d make to you very strongly is that we’re not dealing here with a regime of ordinary brutality. There are many dictatorships in the world. But this is a dictatorship of a particularly horrific kind.

His is an appalling regime: its torture, its use of rape as an instrument of intimidation, the cruelty to children to extract confessions from parents. It is a terrible catalogue of inflicting human misery on a people who deserve much better.

This week, the Times of London detailed the use of a human shredding machine as a vehicle for putting to death critics of Saddam Hussein. This is the man, this is the apparatus of terror we are dealing with.

The removal of Saddam Hussein will lift this immense burden of terror from the Iraqi people.

Our argument is with Saddam Hussein's regime. It is certainly not with Islam.

Australians of an Arab background or of the Islamic faith are a treasured part of our community. Over the weeks ahead and beyond we should all extend to them the hand of Australian mateship.

To those in the community who may not agree with me, please vent your anger against me and towards the government. Remember that our forces are on duty in the Gulf in our name and doing their job in the best traditions of Australia's defence forces.

Can I say something that I know will find an echo from all of you whether or not you agree with the Government. And that is to say to the men and women of the Australian Defence Force in the Gulf – we admire you, we are thinking of you, we want all of you come to back home safe and sound. We care for and we anguish with your loved ones back here in Australia. Our prayers and our hopes are with all of you.

We now live in a world made very different by the scourge of international terrrorism.

This has been a very difficult decision for the Government but a decision which is good for Australia's long term security and the cause of a safer world.

Good night.

[ends]

Originally posted by JTNY
"Iraqi lives aren't as valuable as my life."

"I love war."



I've heard people say those two ...

not a good thing to say ...

:rolleyes:

He was being sarcastic ffs.

Saddams broadcast was not prerecorded, or if it was it was only done a few moments before broadcast, because he mentioned the time of the first missile attacks. That was his point, saying 'you haven't got me yet'.

John Pilger is on tv here at the moment, every word a gem.

And for those of you suffering the pathetic attempts at news reporting from US stations (we are broadcasting live from USS whatever etc.) then look at the bbc world service, tv or radio, far more professional, and no chants of 'our prayers are with the president' etc. He is tucked up in bed next to Laura ffs.

There have also been reports of explosions within Kuwait, signs of an Iraqi fightback, who knows.

Yeah, channel 7 was showing Sky News for a while. Very good...

The Channel 7 News Reporter was reporting (der...) I mean live, and then sirens went off, and he was required to wear a gas mask.

Originally posted by rhizome17
Saddams broadcast was not prerecorded, or if it was it was only done a few moments before broadcast, because he mentioned the time of the first missile attacks. That was his point, saying 'you haven't got me yet'.



Yeah but he's going to remember to keep his head down from now on.

Yeah. They are saying one civilian was killed in those first attacks, plus a number of casualties.

Are you guys getting any reports on whats happening in Afghanistan?

Just that there were 1000 troops in a fight againist al-Qaeda group members.

Yeah when i watched Saddam's state TV adress there were doubts in my mind that it was him. The White house hasn't confirmed if that was Saddam or not.

Iraq has retaliated by supposedly launching a number of scud like missiles at Kuwait. US patriot missiles were launched to bring the scuds down but one supposedly did hit the ground. Nobody knows if the warheads were full of chemicals.

Oil wells in the south of Iraq have been set alight, in an adress by Saddam a few days a go he said he wouldn't be destroying his own country's wealth by the destruction of Oil wells, which proves he is a liar.

The whitehouse has not confirmed it was him? Saddam won't be in Iraq. He would have shot accross that border and probably has something up his sleeve that will destroy Iraq. He's cunning like that.

As for Saddam being a liar, do you have any idea how much bull**** the USA and UK have fed to us? As for Iraq retaliating, who said this? Oh thats right, Kuwait who hates Saddam and USA who also are out to get him. Coincidance? No. Bull****. You don't know. I don't know. There are lots of cover ups that go on in the army.

Gulf war, Tank starts firing at British troops thinking they are Iraqi's. 3 injured, 6 dead.
Gulf war, 14 British troops killed after a USA plane drops a bomb on a tank.
War on terror, 4 Canadians killed due to another USA misplaced bomb.

USA go for what I call the "pussy approach". Use bombs, guns e.t.c
UK go for hand to hand combat and at least make war remotely interesting by doing that.

If they are committing so much blue on blue, then should they really posess all of these weapons? They want peace. Or so they claim. They should not have them if they are going to fulfill their statement which they won't.

Originally posted by voetballiefhebb


USA go for what I call the "pussy approach". Use bombs, guns e.t.c
UK go for hand to hand combat and at least make war remotely interesting by doing that.



what the hell are you talking about?

I think war should happen because Hussain's reigime over Iraq has been torture for the Iraqi people.
Hussain has total control over Iraq and Citizens can't do anything about it , unless they want to be dead.
Thats why I think War must go through unless the US wants Iraq to continue being tortured.

He couldn't have launched any scud missles... They don't have anymore... REMEMBER... He already disarmed of all banned weapons.

I hope they catch SaDAMN and string him up by his Testicles.

Originally posted by xxxFLYERxxx
what the hell are you talking about?

I agree. Sometimes I just feel like banning him for his stupidity and his tendency to act like a prima donna.

He is a peace activist would rather bring back the brutality of Medieval era warfare. What a confused idiot.

Since when do the Brits use had to hand combat as a preffered attacking method? They have preffered artillery and rifles for over 300 years.

Maybe you are thinking of the French... but that is more of a Hands-Up approach.

Originally posted by voetballiefhebb

USA go for what I call the "pussy approach". Use bombs, guns e.t.c
UK go for hand to hand combat and at least make war remotely interesting by doing that.


USA go for what you call the "smart" approach.

Originally posted by FuriousGeorge
Maybe you are thinking of the French... but that is more of a Hands-Up approach.

What is with the perpetual digs at the French? COs they didn't join you in this war? Cos they threatened to veto the second UN resolution?

Come on, you don't see the US being vilified as terrorists for vetoing a resolution seeking to prevent international terrorism. Just quit with the anti-French stuff, I don't even think anyone here is french, voetballiefhebb in in the UK ffs so lets keep this relevant. The French are not there. Get over it. What, if the US suffer a large number of casualties, they have a ready-made scapegoat in the french now? As in 'if the fench were there, this would never have happened'.

I was the first person on these boards to point out the vested interests the French have in Iraq, I was the first to point out that more german companies had invested in Iraq since 1991 than any other, I was the first to point out the fact that the Russian oil economy could suffer from an invasion of Iraq, and I was the first to point out that these reasons played a major role in their opposition to this war. This does not mean I support the war. Nevertheless, you continue with the anti-french remarks. Why?

Can't we just focus on what is happening? Just because the US and the UK have mocked the French position, does not make them any more right.

Originally posted by rhizome17
Just because the US and the UK have mocked the French position, does not make them any more right.

Doesn't mean the French haven't done the same.

I am not saying that they haven't. But they certainly have not been so childish in their arguments.

But my point is this: the war has started, the french are not there, it is their democratic right not to be, so people should just get over it.

Wrong.

The war has started becuase there are 300000 US and UK troops on the border with Iraq, who would be too expensive to keep there any longer, never mind the fact that the weather would make fighting uncomfortable.

The UN inspectors has only been given 31/3 months to do their job after returning, at Saddams invitation, after having not been there for a number of years when the US pulled them out.

3 1/2 months does not sound like a good amount of time to disarm a country, does it? Hans Blix said he needed more time to do his job, but noone listened.

Originally posted by rhizome17
Wrong.

The war has started becuase there are 300000 US and UK troops on the border with Iraq, who would be too expensive to keep there any longer, never mind the fact that the weather would make fighting uncomfortable.

The UN inspectors has only been given 31/3 months to do their job after returning, at Saddams invitation, after having not been there for a number of years when the US pulled them out.

3 1/2 months does not sound like a good amount of time to disarm a country, does it? Hans Blix said he needed more time to do his job, but noone listened. This is my opinion but Saddam has had 12 years to disarm since the End of the Gulf War.

What I find annoying that people will get mad at Saddam is he uses Chemical weapons. I mean the guy is getting invaded by an invading force, and hes not allowed to defend himself? How F'd Is Tat?

hummmmmmm anyway.....back to the war and new developments:


*Second wave of cruise missiles and limited plane attacks over Bagdad. The residence of Tariq Azis were gutted, no reports of civilian casualties aside from that obscure report by the Red Cross that said one Jordanian male had been killed earlier today.


*US Marines and Army Reconnaisance Units along with a Light Mechanized Regiment of the British Armed forces are either returning or still probing Iraqui defenses along the southern borders. So far no Coalition casualties reported. There have been reports of sporadic combat and that a number of Iraqui (mostly patrol) vehicles (and I assume personel) have been destroyed. Also some more Iraqui border guards surrendered to US troops today


*The Pentagon announced that the so called "shock and awe" face of the war has been posponed for the time being. Analyst say because it might be that A) Iraq's leadership has been severely fractured. B)Many units are waiting to surrender. C) It would simply be unnecesary. However, they have also announced that if the Iraqui military does resist "shock and awe" described as THE most massive onlaugh of military might to recent memory will indeed be unleashed.



Ok so far so good I think............................................. .......This is only day one:( :( :kader:





On a note to voetliebal or however it is spelled........you need to go home, cool off and then come back and form intelligent opinions. You are making peace supporters look bad with your rants about the US are pussies this Bush is Hitler that Saddam is too cool...blah blah.......

You are mixing so many half-facts and half-lies together is not even funny


Rhizome: yes, indeed I am Venezuelan. Born and raised....I'll be happy to open another thread to discuss the situation there.

Shock and Awe.

I bet CNN are creaming themselves over the chance to cover that one. Live footage of a massive bombardment. Should be a ratings winner.

I doubt there is only one casualty there has to be more listerning to the bombing campiagn problem is no one on both sides is reporting it.

CNN have toys, it's cool (H)

toys?

Anyway, looks like Iraqi radio and television may have just been hit by a missile. More civilian deaths?

Scale models, to show us what we bought with our tax money.

oh I see. I wonder if they have play wargames while they are off air.

I would, they're cool

hmmm, the US government is spending more on this war than they collect in taxes, thanks to the recent round of tax cuts...

http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2003/iraq/forces/weapons/index.html

Take time to remember what a battle for pointless reasons is like:

We Were Soldiers Once...and Young

(by Lt. Gen. Harold G. Moore [RET] and Joseph L. Galloway)

Or for the full effect, see the movie "We Were Soldiers" with Mel Gibson.

Dont know if anyone has said anything

US Helicopter down all 12 US commandos dead

Lost in North Kuwait - Mechanical failure

"US Helicopter down all 12 US commandos dead"

Haven't heard anything yet. But, dammit, it's **** like this that pisses me off. :(

Well its on Sky and Fox News

16 dead.......12 american 4 british :( ........................
crash in Northern Kuwait

Originally posted by KingPaulV
16 dead.......12 american 4 british :( ........................
crash in Northern Kuwait

yeah we are discussing that in the new thread

****ing helos man......they crash too damn much!!!:f***: :f***: :(

Originally posted by KingPaulV
16 dead.......12 american 4 british :( ........................
crash in Northern Kuwait

Man dude, can you read above, ever?

what's your point?:confused: I just felt like re-stating the news......anything wrong with that? or is that not allowed in SG?

Originally posted by KingPaulV
what's your point?:confused: I just felt like re-stating the news......anything wrong with that? or is that not allowed in SG?

what's your point? I just felt like re-iterating the importance of news. I wonder what the problem is with that? Or isn't it allowed at Soccer Gaming?

CNN mentioning nothing of helicopter crash.

However, they have live videophone from M1A1s 7th Calvary on the move about 40 km/h per hour. They are passing old knocked out Russian T-81 tanks still sitting there from the Gulf War.

One guy on CNN says they are moving too fast.

Ladies take a chill pill your arguing about who gets the news first, dont fall down to a crappy level

Originally posted by zul-aid
dont fall down to a crappy level

Nah, I will, just better watch my step.

I wasnt arguing I honestly didnt know what that was about.........is not like I care to be first. I felt sad about the fact that the helo went down so I stated it.........sorry if you had posted before about it....seriously I could care less........


but anyway.......

What's the deal with CNN?......no news of the crash:kader:

Originally posted by KingPaulV

What's the deal with CNN?......no news of the crash:kader:

Aye, sorry.

Yes, but this is quite interesting, this live video phone stuff. They were going 40 km/h and now they the lead tanks have stopped, two up front, their turrets turned and the commanders heads popped out, probably discussing strategy. Then a tank started moving backwards, and now, as I type this, the tank is heading back up to the other tanks. Well, now they are starting to move forward now.

Wow--you know me, I like the military stuff--and this is really interesting.

Wow, they've been going for about an hour since seeing an enemy. Seriously, it looks like a race to Baghdad, not to jump to any hopeful conclusion just yet. They've got some choppers ahead of the tanks scouting out ahead.

:(

Eh, is there not a thread for this already, or is this another chopper?

Same chopper but not 12 US dead, it's 12 Brit dead.

Dude two threads - not nessary post - boosting over a terrible tragedy is wrong :kader:

Then I will bet my right bollock that it is friendly fire. Same thing happened in the gulf last time around. Same excuse too. "Mechanical failure".

I just switched on the news, it says 8 Britons and 4 US dead from the crash. Although, this is ITV. Iraq say they shot it down. Heh. I also see USA/UK are faking more photos of Iraq setting the oil wells alight.

Originally posted by zul-aid
Dude two threads - not nessary post - boosting over a terrible tragedy is wrong :kader:

Oh yes, I love postboosting. Shut the **** up.

instead of going and making wild claims, and theories ...

can we just not ruin the moment for once and accept the fact that they could be deceased ...

there are plenty of opportunities to post about the war in general .. etc etc ...

Originally posted by Joe
Oh yes, I love postboosting. Shut the **** up.

good call :confused:

There is this General on CNN that reminds me of what Larry would look like when he's about sixty.

Actually I just heard on CNN it was 12 British and 4 US...

So far I have been pretty happy about how the military has gone about all this. If they can manage to take the country with out entering major cities or initiating major urban bombing I will stand and cheer.

I know.......I'm Naval reserve so you know this stuff is amazing to me.....(not to trivialize human life of course)

But have you been hearing the reports that Saddam and HIs sons might have been killed last night afterall????

I just realized that last post might have seemed sarcastic.....so just to let you know Joe......I do mean the bit about me being interested in all the military stuff

I apologize for my comments they were out of order

But just because the facts were wrong doesnt mean we should have two threads I believe it should be a rule keep to one thread for one issue.

When I saw that you only had the smilie I thought it was post boosting, again I apologize.

Please people keep to one thread for one topic this forum is already run over by War threads.

To all the victims and families; may the rest in peace and my god or whomever be with them.

EDIT: I have deleted mine.

^^^
I hope so. Would be a great victory!

http://www.netcomuk.co.uk/~gcozens/images/airpane_drop_bombs_pic.jpg
Sealed with a kiss. A kiss of death and destruction that is.

http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2003/iraq/interactive/coalition/munitions/frameset.17.exclude.html

If you were wondering about the "Shock and Awe" phase, there ya go.

Geez now there's something you don't hear everyday: "US helicopter goes down". (note the sarcasm)

Like I said before, why fight a war with bombs, do it like the British do, hand to hand, not all these pussy ways. "Oh, we can't fight as ground troops, I may break a nail!" pathetic.

Maybe the army are trying to compensate for something.

It probley won't be used, just have it to scare the **** outta people.

Originally posted by voetballiefhebb
Like I said before, why fight a war with bombs, do it like the British do, hand to hand, not all these pussy ways. "Oh, we can't fight as ground troops, I may break a nail!" pathetic.

Maybe the army are trying to compensate for something.

you're joking right? :|

you're an idiot

Indeed.

Using ground troops instead of air strikes has been proven to kill less innocent civillians. There again, any type of war is pathetic.

As for being an idiot, maybe. We are all idiots at one time or have a part of our life where we are idiotic, in my case, my opinions which I can't back up make me look idiotic.

sending ground troops in straight away, IS idiotic :|

I'm sure, General, Sir, you'd know what you're on about seeming you're a military expert and all that ...

Go read up on it, or ask actual military personal who KNOW what they're on about :|


you'd be risking more lives just sending in ground troops, junior.

go be a human shield or something ... hero ... :rolleyes:

I had to read the title a few times...

"US Chopper Down 12 British Dead" to get it

Though in this War on Iraq the two are so alike, it's hard to distinguish the two...

Lol! if you bomb first, you have the luxury of being able to walk through without as much resistance.

Its now actually 8 British 4 Americans

But there have been some unrealiable reports that another 4 were onboard the reason and the nationality of those 4 have not been disclosed

(Either they were special forces, POW's or something sinister - we dont know they dont know whether they were going to Iraq or coming back!).

Originally posted by Paul
you'd be risking more lives just sending in ground troops, junior.

That'd be Western lives, then. Cos you risk more lives when you bomb...except they're Iraqi civilian lives. But I forgot, Western lives are more valuable. How ignorant of me.

well, that's a matter of where Saddam puts his troops.

if he has installations near schools, and residencial places ... the it's obvious they're gonna be in danger ... and that is what Saddam does ... which I am sure is not legal ...

so I heard.

MASTERS OF WAR

Bob Dylan

Come you masters of war
You that build all the guns
You that build the death planes
You that build the big bombs
You that hide behind walls
You that hide behind desks
I just want you to know
I can see through your masks

You that never done nothin'
But build to destroy
You play with my world
Like it's your little toy
You put a gun in my hand
And you hide from my eyes
And you turn and run farther
When the fast bullets fly

Like Judas of old
You lie and deceive
A world war can be won
You want me to believe
But I see through your eyes
And I see through your brain
Like I see through the water
That runs down my drain

You fasten the triggers
For the others to fire
Then you set back and watch
When the death count gets higher
You hide in your mansion
As young people's blood
Flows out of their bodies
And is buried in the mud

You've thrown the worst fear
That can ever be hurled
Fear to bring children
Into the world
For threatening my baby
Unborn and unnamed
You ain't worth the blood
That runs in your veins

How much do I know
To talk out of turn
You might say that I'm young
You might say I'm unlearned
But there's one thing I know
Though I'm younger than you
Even Jesus would never
Forgive what you do

Let me ask you one question
Is your money that good
Will it buy you forgiveness
Do you think that it could
I think you will find
When your death takes its toll
All the money you made
Will never buy back your soul

And I hope that you die
And your death'll come soon
I will follow your casket
In the pale afternoon
And I'll watch while you're lowered
Down to your deathbed
And I'll stand o'er your grave
'Til I'm sure that you're dead

Originally posted by Paul
well, that's a matter of where Saddam puts his troops.

if he has installations near schools, and residencial places ... the it's obvious they're gonna be in danger ... and that is what Saddam does ... which I am sure is not legal ...

so I heard.

Sure, it'd be Saddam's fault if a missile hit a school which just happened to be close to a military facility..perhaps not.

Why would it not be legal? Under what law?

rules of engagement.

APRIL 20th 1996

America bombed both a School and a Hospital in Kosovo

Also in that year America bombed a building in Sudan thinking it was Al-Qedia

It was making Asprin but again thats what I heard

Originally posted by Paul
rules of engagement.

Not be cruel or anything, but the people in the world are becoming pussies.

It's war. People die, innocents die. It sucks. I know that the soldiers only want (or do they?) to kill those who are trying to kill them, and I am almost positive it would not be Iraqi citizens.

I believe it would be Saddam's fault. Who in the right mind (hint: right mind) would put a military target next to a school or hospital. Exactly. The pilots just carry out the orders and drop the bomb, or launch the missile from the carrier.

Who in the right mind (hint: right mind) would put a military target next to a school or hospital.

A person who is trying to defend himself
ever played Red Alert or something similar

I will never defend Saddam but when your up the wall you have to make it harder for the opposition

what do you want him to stand on the middle of the road with a target saying "Shoot me"

I agree with Joe about the 'pussies' thing ...

Saddam is crafty, but I'd rather defend my country with dignity, not dishonor...

Originally posted by Paul
but I'd rather defend my country with dignity, not dishonor...

Thats a very interesting comment

Because thats what Saddam is doing (yes I do hate him), fighting with honour; but the only way Iraq can win is through a city fight so to speek

America is paying 90 billion for this war a month (US$) so if it takes several months Banks would be loaning to the US government heaps and like the last war; it will end with Saddam alive

you say placing military near schools is cowardly

Columbine High School in Denver Colorado is next to Norad the hub for American war heads: American Atomic Bombs dot the colorado landscape; Bomb test are carried out near schools and residential areas - America do it too. (source: Bowling 4 Columbine)

This isnt the only time people have used this type of street warfare the Russians did it in Stalingrad in 1943; and the Americans (not intensionally) did it in the vietnam war

Iraq's only force is in the city.

If the Iraqi's thought there life was in danger they have 3 days to leave granted that many wont have the resources to leave, but do you think they would be going to school when the bombing starts

It is sad that Saddam has done this - its a ploy - its wrong - but he is not the only one to do it and it happens all the time

ala Saving Private Ryan.

"They will fight on land, sea, and air.... at the battlefields, air combat and in the streets".

Alright let's just say that America and Britain managed to kill Saddam, no one will ever know for sure. The Iraqi's aren't going to tell them that Saddam has died, they won't have a clue whether he is alive or dead, like Bin Laden.

And did anyone watch Question Time on BBC1 last night? Boy, it was good. Piers Morgan (editor of The Mirror - UK newspaper) really put the people in support of war to the test, it was very interesting and most of all entertaining. Especially Williams Hague agreeing with Labour....what the hell!

Originally posted by zul-aid
Columbine High School in Denver Colorado is next to Norad the hub for American war heads.

not really. unless by "next to" you mean "approximately 50 miles away".

Hey Wait... Isn't that the French flag???

Yes it is a great tragedy and one that shouldn't of happened. The Helicoptor the Royal Marines were on board was old and last year they were grounded becuase of blade problams. My thoughts go to the family of the dead and i hope there are no more loss of life.
When i heard the news i was very concerned as i do have a relative serving in the gulf.

It's very unlikely to be freindly fire becuase the helicoptor was on the Kuwait side of the border and Iraq doesn't have any helicoptors. Due to the desert conditions i beleive it was a technical fault and we have to remember the helicoptor could of been 30+ years old.

You're made to believe it was a technical fault. The same thing happened in the Gulf war. 12 hours on and there was still confusion surrounding what happened, stories changing all the times e.t.c.

If the USA were going to fight a war, why can't they do one against the media?

It's very sad, but it was inevitable that there would be casualties.

I'm getting sick of the **** :drevil: jokes :drevil: because France won't support your ****ing war :mad:

Oh Ok... I'll keep that in mind next time.:rolleyes:

It's ironic that the first British and American casualties were not even in combat, they had not even entered Iraq.

Anyways, why are the innocent Iraqi's not getting the attention that our troops are getting?

Anyways, they went out to the gulf to kill, they are not getting my sympathy. The army are part of the machines that kill, if they wish to operate them, then that is their choice. I think it is fair to say there will be more allied troops casualties.

Nice to see Turkey accepting a huge wad of cash from USA to let them use their airports. Also, would Iraqi's attempt to shoot down a B52?

Originally posted by voetballiefhebb
Like I said before, why fight a war with bombs, do it like the British do, hand to hand, not all these pussy ways. "Oh, we can't fight as ground troops, I may break a nail!" pathetic.

Maybe the army are trying to compensate for something.

British fight hand to hand?? Hand to hand combat is a last resort. When the Royal Marines attacked the Al Faw Perninsula last night they had a huge amount of fire cover from the royal artillery, aircraft and two frigates. So i don't know where your getting the hand to hand crap?

I'd just like to say one thing, the troops had no choice to go to war. They don't want war, they are just following orders. it is Bush and Blair's fault.

this war is another proof of the power of the great american empire :f***: :f***: :f***:

Originally posted by vince15
I'm getting sick of the **** :drevil: jokes :drevil: because France won't support your ****ing war :mad:

I actually thought that was pretty funny. And I don't hate France because they're not supporting this war. I've allways hated France. :)

Erm, since when did Bush and Blair make them pull the trigger?

Soldiers were asked to leave before moving in to Iraq according to a pro-war expert.

I saw this quote and thought it was both funny and true:

"You know the world is going crazy when the best rapper is a white guy, the best golfer is a black guy, the Swiss hold the America's Cup, France is accusing the US of arrogance, and Germany doesn't want to go to war."

Well, if you are in the army, you are trained to pull the trigger, that's what they are there for. They sign up for the army to protect their respective countries, and if a war comes up, be it just or not, they have gotta go and fight if called up.

Originally posted by INFESTA
I saw this quote and thought it was both funny and true:

"You know the world is going crazy when the best rapper is a white guy, the best golfer is a black guy, the Swiss hold the America's Cup, France is accusing the US of arrogance, and Germany doesn't want to go to war."

LOL that's a great quote :) :o

LOL @ INFESTA
That Is Funny

That goes in my sig that quote :D

There we go - thanks for the quote :D

Man, some people here have really loose screws.........its such a mixture of lies and :drevil: FACTS:drevil: it is nauseating........I'm not even getting into it......


BTW, the quote was funny indeed



Back to the what we are here for:

*"Shock and Awe" has begun.......Iraq, Kirkuk, Mosul and some parts of Basra as well as selected targets throughout the country were attacked today.........more attacks expected later

*Rumors that Saddam and at least one of his sons might have been injured or killed are growing stronger by the hour. It is also notable that the Iraqui guvernamental structure is growing very disorganized, it is likely that a concrete resistance could not hold much longer thourghout the rest of the country........Baghdad?......that's another story.

*Two Marines were killed in combat today around southern Iraq, first combat casualties of the war

*There have been some obscure reports that in some parts of Iraq already "occupied" or "Liberated" (I'm trying to be impartial) Iraqis have been out celebrating, and throwing down Hussein statues.......any ground to these reports??? anybody??

uh........oh yeah stock market in New York closed its greatest weekly gain in 20 years......apparently all happened today when a British military official commented to BBC that there was a STRONG posibility Saddam and either of his sons was killed inside the house that was attacked wednesday night.....by now it is common belief that indeed Saddam and his sons were in the compound at the time of the attack

Originally posted by Run DMB
I actually thought that was pretty funny. And I don't hate France because they're not supporting this war. I've allways hated France. :) Same Here

I don't think they killed or injured Sadam, I'd say it is just propaganda. Nevertheless, I may be wrong.

Well the truth about Saddam remains to be seen..... I think people are and will be in denial for a while to even foster the thought that Saddam has vbeen killed.....It is an understandable but he may be dead.......who knows


More news:

*The Iraqi 51st division which was guarding Basra has surrendered in full to US-UK Marines. CNN and others are reporting that the Commander and Deputy of such division has surrendered his command to US troops....the number of men surrendering goes anywhere from 6,000 to 10,000 somewhere in between that.....more news are expected later



Oh and about the celebration part. I just saw images on CNN supposedly taken in Iraq's southermost port in the Al Faw peninsula...controlled by US and British troops earlier today

Originally posted by vince15
I'm getting sick of the **** :drevil: jokes :drevil: because France won't support your ****ing war :mad:

I've seen some poor jokes on America, Bush, Blair, etc ...

you're not the only one ...

:rolleyes:

Originally posted by Paul
I've seen some poor jokes on America, Bush, Blair, etc ...

you're not the only one ...

:rolleyes: There are huge differences between insulting a whole country or only its president...

:rolleyes:

Least people of france haven't burnt thier flag ...



:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

don't believe US propaganda

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

FFS ... that is such bullcrap.

I seen it on my local news, outside the American consulate in Melbourne.

tell me that's propaganda, yeah ... they set it up :|

nice one :rolleyes:

no, it ain't propaganda :rolleyes:

when two french guys would burn the American flag the media would come no two minutes later because it's that what they want to see. then the media makes it big--> the french burnt the flag...they really hate them
nice one

:rolleyes:

........yeah vince.....I've seen plenty offending of the whole of the US here alone, the thing is that when anybody says something people say that they really meant to offen Bush.....so from now on when people offend France they really mean Chirac ok?...

I love the Arabs that go out and protest chanting......Death To America.....when they ask them what they meant by that they say...........

"uh... we mean Death to America[N] POLICIES...that's what it is"... funny people:kader:

Originally posted by KingPaulV
........yeah vince.....I've seen plenty offending of the whole of the US here alone, the thing is that when anybody says something people say that they really meant to offen Bush.....so from now on when people offend France they really mean Chirac ok?... I don't care what some morons write. Look at anti war protests...it's directed to Bush, not to the American ppl. So there's the difference from my point of view.

.....uummmm nope...there are protest where the American flag is burned and the stars are replaced by skulls......a bunch of the Dark empire placards.....yup....not a lot of love for America there and to be honest people have their right I dont mind is all good.....but when the war is already waging and they wanna go out and (some people) take for granted the freedoms they have and vandalize instead that pisses me off.....


I've always maintained that the best way for Americans to really understand and appreciate this country is by travelling(out of the US), far too few Americans have done that that's why some of them dont really understand the reasons why, the hows and all that

Originally posted by vince15
no, it ain't propaganda :rolleyes:

when two french guys would burn the American flag the media would come no two minutes later because it's that what they want to see. then the media makes it big--> the french burnt the flag...they really hate them
nice one

:rolleyes:

I was referring to people from australia, burning thier own flag.

Originally posted by Paul
I was referring to people from australia, burning thier own flag. Oh lol :crazyboy:

wakey wakey .... :|



:p

Maybe I was too tired. I'm going to bed now. :sleep:

http://premium.cnn.com/pr/video/meta/iraq/2003/03/21/vo.safwan.liber.affl.np.smil

(H)

* British & American marine forces have just confirmed that the port town of Umm Qasr has not yet been completely captured, contrary to what defence minister Donald Rumsfield stated earlier today, journalists accompanying coalition troops have reported that 'pockets of resistance' in the town have stalled the advancement of coalition battalions.
Its surprising that the capture of the town has taken so long, Umm Qasar is basically a shanty border town of a population of some 35 hundred, the Americans initially anticipated the battle of Umm Qasar to last an hour or 2 at most, as it is its been more than 10 hours already.

* Turkish foreign minister Abdullah Gul has backed up reports that Turkish military forces have already crossed into Northern Iraq, he says they're there to stop any influx of Iraqi refugees into Turkey, but Kurdish leaders have promised to 'unleash hell and turn North Iraq into a graveyard for Turkish troops' if any Turks crossed into Kurdish territory, accusing the Turks of trying to undermine any form of Kurdish autonomy and securing Turkish interests in Iraq. The Americans have tried to play down the Turkish invasion and are currently in talks with Ankara to convince them to pull back.

* The Australian government has announced they'll be providing some 100,000 tonnes of Australian wheat as humanitarian relief, Australian foreign minister Alexander Downer said that the Howard government felt it was only right to provide some sort of assistance to the Iraqi people since Australia has commited troops to join in the military assault on the country .................... he also added that the Australians will be asking the Iraqis to pay for the wheat later on.

Originally posted by FuriousGeorge
Hey Wait... Isn't that the French flag???
The Iraqi information minister reckons those Iraqi troops seen surrendering infront of western cameras are not actually Iraqis, he's accused the Americans of recruiting Kuwaitis to act as surrendering Iraqi troops as part of the psycological warfare against the Iraqi army :O

Originally posted by Krypton X
[B
The Iraqi information minister reckons those Iraqi troops seen surrendering infront of western cameras are not actually Iraqis, he's accused the Americans of recruiting Kuwaitis to act as surrendering Iraqi troops as part of the psycological warfare against the Iraqi army :O [/B]

Meh, they're all insane I tells ya!

Oh yeah........cause the Iraqi information minister IS a reliable source(Y)

I'm sure you also heard the report where he says Baghdad is in complete calm right when Bombs are falling on the other side of the Tigris......now HE is the real deal...:rolleyes:

So are the US and British governments :rolleyes: (Y)

At least their lies are somewhat believable.........

They're both propoganda, best source is ur own eyes.

Originally posted by KingPaulV
At least their lies are somewhat believable.........
LOL!
They are lying, but you are content just to say "ah well they're the US government why would they lie to me i'll believe even though its unlikely what they're saying is true" :rolleyes:

I don't believe most of it. A lot of it's biased but most of the time you won't notice.

Originally posted by KingPaulV
Oh yeah........cause the Iraqi information minister IS a reliable source(Y)

I'm sure you also heard the report where he says Baghdad is in complete calm right when Bombs are falling on the other side of the Tigris......now HE is the real deal...:rolleyes:
I'm not saying you should believe it, i found it somewhat amusing that's why i thought i'd mention it.

I'd suggest you don't take anything said by the Iraqi or coalition governments at more than face value. The Americans are going all out in PsyOps warfare in an attempt to demoralize the enemy forces, you'd expect there to be a lot of disinformation going round to get as many of the Iraqis to surrender.
In situations like this seeing is not always believing.

Originally posted by Deutschland
LOL!
They are lying, but you are content just to say "ah well they're the US government why would they lie to me i'll believe even though its unlikely what they're saying is true" :rolleyes:

Bro, just shush it, that is not what I meant......Simply that since 75% of these boards are Europeans, who love to hate Bush every day of their lifes its real cute for you all to quote his excellency the Iraqi information minister, when you and I damn well know the man and the regime he follows are a bunch of liers no matter what stick you measure it by wether you like what the US is doing or not......simply because their reports counter those of the US-UK agencies you seem to be glowing....its funny how a great many here sit there and say they dont want war and they hate Saddam this and that but at the slightest indication that the US is gaining in something you jump and say in very cynical ways......"No-uh and here is proof" its patethic if you ask me.. just f*cking come out and say you dont like the US and be at peace instead of being hypocritical and all.....

but hey let the shower of: "you ****ing warmongering American, we really do love America blah blah" rain on me as they may....I've heard it before....its all good


and O agree about both things being propaganda...that is why it try to get my info form as many sources as possible Vagegast;)

Paul.

I don't like the US government and it's actions you know. And I ain't gonna kiss American ass.

But real proof, like something hapenning on live TV, is pretty convincing.

I don't think many people like Bush, or his administration.

But i have friends and family in Iraq fighting, so i support the troops.

The United States would like to thank the following coalition members for their invaluable assistance in our ongoing war effort:

*Nicaragua (we bought and paid for your president's election...consider that debt repaid)

*Latvia (you've proven indispensable)

*Iceland (Maybe Bjork can compose a catchy battle hymn)

*Estonia (uh...whatever)

*Japan (it would help more if you'd defend YOURSELF)

*El Salvador (an extra allotment of immigrant visas is in the pipeline)

*Uzbekistan (Thanks...we'll clean up our description of your human rights record on the State Department's website)

*Azerbaijan (Thank you card is forthcoming from USAID)

*Colombia (that military aid request has been fast tracked...just have patience)

*Albania (don't worry about those pesky human rights agitators, the U.S. will stonewall any effort to ban human trafficking)

*Ethiopia (we must do dinner...soon)

*Lithuania (couldn't have done it without you)

*Georgia (do you like grits and bisquits and gravy there, too?)

*Bulgaria (we'll give you most favored trading status. What do you make there, anyway?)

*Poland (Thanks for your support...but could you have a word with your Pope and get him on the same page?)

And to all of the others, who may prefer to remain nameless...thank you all. The volume of fig leaves we've received here is astonishing, and humbling.

What's wrong with grits, biscuits and gravy? (H)

BTW: I know that was a crack at "Geo-gah" as they say.

Two choppers "flew into each other" over international water.

Even if the Iraqi's did shoot it down, the allied forces would still not admit it. I think we are being told porkies.

207+ Iraqi civillians died over night. Most woman and children. That is according to Iraqi reports. I would probably say quarter of that figure is more realistic. However, 1,000 bombs were dropped, all it needs is 1% of those bombs to go astray and thats 10 bombs missed their target. So I suppose the figures could indeed be true.

they were in the persian gulf, NO WHERE near Iraqi forces ...

you're not a military expert, you're just a cynical toss ....

how thick can some people be, I think hitman is smarter than you :|

HAHA :crazyboy:

What smart arse comment do you have for Australia ... ?

Denmark have also joined in now.

Actually, when I posted, the location had not been confirmed. So stick that in your pipe and smoke it. (H)

Ok.

Originally posted by Ljungberg08
But i have friends and family in Iraq fighting, so i support the troops.
you are damn right to support the troops, they need it, afterall, they are at war, everybody should do the same.

LMFAO @ Krypton X's post. An excellent post. :)

Originally posted by Krypton X
The United States would like to thank the following coalition members for their invaluable assistance in our ongoing war effort:

*Nicaragua (we bought and paid for your president's election...consider that debt repaid)

*Latvia (you've proven indispensable)

*Iceland (Maybe Bjork can compose a catchy battle hymn)

*Estonia (uh...whatever)

*Japan (it would help more if you'd defend YOURSELF)

*El Salvador (an extra allotment of immigrant visas is in the pipeline)

*Uzbekistan (Thanks...we'll clean up our description of your human rights record on the State Department's website)

*Azerbaijan (Thank you card is forthcoming from USAID)

*Colombia (that military aid request has been fast tracked...just have patience)

*Albania (don't worry about those pesky human rights agitators, the U.S. will stonewall any effort to ban human trafficking)

*Ethiopia (we must do dinner...soon)

*Lithuania (couldn't have done it without you)

*Georgia (do you like grits and bisquits and gravy there, too?)

*Bulgaria (we'll give you most favored trading status. What do you make there, anyway?)

*Poland (Thanks for your support...but could you have a word with your Pope and get him on the same page?)

And to all of the others, who may prefer to remain nameless...thank you all. The volume of fig leaves we've received here is astonishing, and humbling.
LOL

Originally posted by Run DMB
I actually thought that was pretty funny. And I don't hate France because they're not supporting this war. I've allways hated France. :)

Yeah same here.

Another two helicoptors have crashed in the gulf, more casualties for both sides. I'm fearing for my cousins life. But he knows he's fighting for a just cause.

blame canada ... that thinking is out the window ...

hate france ... South Park will use that I think ...

lol!

so if I lied, and said I hated the US/ UK/ Australia whatever, then according to the logic going on here it would be ok.

But if I tell the truth, and state I don't hatre a country, but disagree with their foreign policy, then I get hassled.

ha! how pathetic.

Another two? Is this like 4:15am news but 7 hours late? Or another two down in the last 30 minutes-1 hour?

I don't know why you are so concerned about your cousin, 207 allied forces were not murdered last night were they? Your cousin knows what is expected of him, and he knows his life is on the line, he is willing to put his life on the line to do his job. A bit of consideration for those children that dies last night would not go amiss you know.

I hate the USA and UK. I don't see a problem with it. If people want to call me unpatriotic, let them. I'm not really bothered. I have my opinions, you have yours. I could say you are pathetic for being patriotic. Will it make a difference? Hell no.

USA and UK have started an illegal and inmoral war. All this get behidn the troops bollocks is pissing me off. If you think I am supporting my country to murder people just to be branded with the tag "patriotic", well you're wrong. Very wrong.

my comment wasn't directed at you mate. I don't agree with you on hating a country, you may hate them but I don't, but my comments were directed at ... well, they know who they are.

The Iraqi Dilemma – liberation or occupation
By Haider Al-Najjar


Whilst it is clear that British public opinion is divided on the issue of war, Iraqi exile opinion is a much thornier issue. Whilst this war has shaky moral and legal backing, even the official aims of this war are not clearly set out, drifting between regime change, countering terrorism and destroying weapons of mass destruction. Of course there are many other probable, yet unofficial aims which one hears being put forward, most importantly the control of the strategically invaluable Iraqi oil reserves. Going back to the Iraqi exiles, the fact that they are likely to have a greater depth of knowledge of the background to the current conflict, rather than making it easier for them to formulate an opinion, makes it all the more difficult. Although there has been some clear pro-war stances by Iraqi exiles in Britain, it appears, anecdotally at least, that most Iraqis, myself included, face a situation in their minds akin to political schizophrenia. On one hand, most Iraqi exiles, and for that matter, Iraqi citizens still inside the country, bitterly oppose Saddam’s regime for all of the human rights and other abuses it has committed against them for 30 years. Most Iraqis would be more than happy to see him consigned to the dustbin of history. However, there is also a deep mistrust amongst many Iraqis of a US (and British) administration which has a poor track record in terms of morality in the Middle-East and the rest of the world for that matter. Specifically, concerning Iraq, the last Gulf-War in 1991, and all the events concerning it have resurfaced in the minds of most Iraqis. The fact that the Allies carpet bombed Iraq back then in what was arguably a violation of Article 54 of the Geneva Protocol concerning the ‘Protection of Objects Indispensable to the Survival of the Civilian Population’. Furthermore, several unsavoury incidents, most notably the ‘highway to hell’ when the Allies attacked a retreating convoy consisting mostly of Iraqi conscripts but also, Kuwaiti prisoners and Palestinian refugees still linger. However, I very much doubt that the Allies would risk such incidents this time around , especially as the unpopularity of this war means that the spotlights will be focussing very closely on their conduct. Also, since the last Gulf-War, years of U.S.-led sanctions have caused untold misery to the people of Iraq.
Another issue is the fact that it was the Yanks after all who helped Saddam’s regime into power, then armed him in the war with Iran and now the Iraqi people are paying the price for his removal. The attitude of most Iraqis in exile has been to ‘wait and see’ before passing judgement.
It is difficult to pass judgement on the conduct of the allies thus far, however I have seen some cause for concern. The raising of the American flag in the place of Iraq’s at Umm Qasr yesterday was widely reported in the Arab media, and even though it was probably a foolish act by a young excited marine, raised questions regarding American intentions. If the U.S. were, as they claim, liberators, then why take down the Iraqi flag (which does not represent Saddam) down at all?
Also, U.S. dealings with the Iraqi opposition groups have been worrying. Ahmed Chalabi, the head of the INC (Iraq National Congress), a group with relatively little presence inside Iraq, has been a sort of mediator between the stronger and more influential groups with military presence, and the Americans. These groups, namely the SCIRI (Supreme Council for Islamic Revolution in Iraq) with their ten to fifteen thousand-strong Badr corps, and the Kurdish guerrillas of the KDP and PUK have been receiving mixed messages from Washington. The SCIRI have made it clear that they oppose any U.S. military leadership of Iraq, and have received conflicting input as to whether this will be the case. The Kurdish groups have not been reassured regarding the possibility of a Turkish invasion.
Whatever happens, the only thing which is clear in my mind now is that Iraq should be ruled by Iraqis for Iraqis.

Originally posted by voetballiefhebb
I hate the USA and UK. I don't see a problem with it. If people want to call me unpatriotic, let them.

I could never miss an opportunity like this ...

You would have to have a REALLY good reason to hate a country, hating a country would go down into hating the whole population, and the people who run it.

I doubt you do, you're probably just stupid ... no, you are stupid.

People who hate countries are shallow, losers.

My friend's father was in a gov department, during our colonial wars in the early 70s, and his job was to switch casualty records from 'Killed In Action' to 'Death Resulted in Accident'. The purpose is obvious.

I don't know if the choppers were taken down or it was a real accident. Again, there's too much smoke to tell what is true and what's propaganda. I suspect we'll hear about many accidents from which resulted several deaths in the near future. Almost half of the US casualties in the first Golf War were officially accidental. Right...

Originally posted by Krypton X
The raising of the American flag in the place of Iraq’s at Umm Qasr yesterday was widely reported in the Arab media, and even though it was probably a foolish act by a young excited marine, raised questions regarding American intentions. If the U.S. were, as they claim, liberators, then why take down the Iraqi flag (which does not represent Saddam) down at all?


I am glad you raised this. It is a serious PR disaster for the US, the act of raising a flag indicates the conquoring of territory, and as we have been told, this conflict has no such imperial asmbitions.

Plain and simple: a dumb, stupid act that could have serious consequences if broadcast throughout the middle east: the US flag raised in place of the Iraqi flag: surely, red rag to a bull?

I cannot even believe such an act occurred, its stupidity defies explanation. dumb dumb dumb.

looks good for the rah rah rahs at home, advertising footage for CNN...but, what say, would Osama think of it?

I think it's important to point out that the American flag was pulled right back down after scores of journalists flocked to take pictures of it waving above Iraq's main port. But you're absolutely right rhizome, coverage of the incident triggered mass protests right across the middle east today with 5 people in Yemen losing their lives after clashing with police.

Below is an excerpt from the opening page of one the main Arabic newspapers, the headline reads: "The first signs of occupation; the raising of the American flag for that of the Iraqi"
The picture on the right shows an American marine pulling down the Iraqi flag, and replacing it with the US flag on the left.
Needless to say, that's not going to look too good to many middle-easterners, specially in places like Iran & Syria whose governments have been accused of funding and supporting terrorism.

I bet Iraq will win the war because all the allied choppers end up crashing against each other shortly after take off.

Four US soldiers confirmed dead in central Iraq. Recon HUMVEEs ambushed.

Big mistake putting the flag up, and unforunately more troops dies.

:kader:

Originally posted by rhizome17
so if I lied, and said I hated the US/ UK/ Australia whatever, then according to the logic going on here it would be ok.

But if I tell the truth, and state I don't hatre a country, but disagree with their foreign policy, then I get hassled.

ha! how pathetic.
I don't think people should get all pissed off if you just critisize their country's foreign policy. It's freedom of speech and people's opinions need to be respected. Just saying you hate a country is much more offensive. But to my knowledge, there aren't any French people on this forum, and that's why I felt free to say I hate France. I knew I wouldn't be deeply offending anyone. I know I wouldn't like if someone on here said "I hate Bulgaria" or "I hate the US".

Originally posted by Run DMB
But to my knowledge, there aren't any French people on this forum, and that's why I felt free to say I hate France. I knew I wouldn't be deeply offending anyone. :)

exactly - Freedom of Speech

I hate USA and I love France!

Goto Iraq and ask an average person in a US occupied village whether they think the war is useless.

If you haven't figured it out, Iraq already fired scud missles. I believe that already makes every anti-war country and the UN look stupid. Now, people who didn't think that Saddam had illegal weapons - you're just a moron. But, for people who pretty much figured Saddam had these weapons - I guess it would be cool for Saddam to one day just fire these weapons at Iran, Kuwait, Israel, or whoever the **** he wanted?

So, Saddam lied about having illegal weapons, and you still believe he does not have weapons of mass destruction? Maybe they are not completed, but they will find chemical weapons.

It's not like millions of people are dying here. There's more Iraqi soldiers that surrendered that have died. They surrendered because they have no reason to fight. Only Saddam controlled them through terror, if not, they would provide more resistance. It's always terrible to hear soldiers die, but they aren't in the best of the best without being prepared to die for hundreds of thousands of Iraqi's freedom from terror and to protect the United States and the world (even if half the countries are a bunch of little girls) from future attacks.

There was no other option. No diplomacy would have saved this. The only way Saddam is going down is to die. It's not like the UN inspectors can really do their jobs either.

Go fight in what's left of the Republican Guard if you really care that much.

Originally posted by ImmUniTy
What I find annoying that people will get mad at Saddam is he uses Chemical weapons. I mean the guy is getting invaded by an invading force, and hes not allowed to defend himself? How F'd Is Tat?

Wow man! That's so f'd up dude!

Saddam should be allowed to use nuclear weapons and **** too!

here's the cap i made:

i don't think this will make the iraqi people and the arab world feel comfortabke

An American flag and a MARINE FLAG?

did you mention that the flags were taken down after 15 minutes after they were raised in respect for the Iraqis........no, of course not. Better to show everybody how evil the US is. When some of you grow up you will be the men leading a massive gangbang of the World vs. US. congratulations!!!....

Rhizome.....I was not directing anything at you in spite of all things you are one of the more intelligent and articulate persons here and you argue with facts not assumptions and half-truths, so I have no quarrel with you.

Originally posted by juventusita
There was no other option. No diplomacy would have saved this. The only way Saddam is going down is to die. It's not like the UN inspectors can really do their jobs either.

Once again I completely agree with what juventusita said. Yeah it's sad that removing Saddam from power needs to happen by war but it needs to happen. We all know it wouldn't have worked any other way. You can't reason with a madman, you have to use force. Whatever Dubbya's motives may be behind this invasion of Iraq, it will ultimately result in the removal of the most ruthless dictator in recent memory. It will liberate a people from brutal oppression. No matter what the reason is Bush wanted this war, in the end it will certainly do more good than bad for the Iraqi people.

Originally posted by KingPaulV
did you mention that the flags were taken down after 15 minutes after they were raised in respect for the Iraqis........no, of course not. Better to show everybody how evil the US is. When some of you grow up you will be the men leading a massive gangbang of the World vs. US. congratulations!!!....

Rhizome.....I was not directing anything at you in spite of all things you are one of the more intelligent and articulate persons here and you argue with facts not assumptions and half-truths, so I have no quarrel with you. Also forgot to mention that the flag was raised by some young marines who really didn't know the effect it would have and then his colonel told him to take it down because of what it makes us look like. Just some minor details.

I know that the flag was taken down, but just this picture shown to the Iraqi people and the Arab world have a big impact on their stand and opinions.

Originally posted by sslazio121087
Also forgot to mention that the flag was raised by some young marines who really didn't know the effect it would have and then his colonel told him to take it down because of what it makes us look like. Just some minor details.

And why have the soldiers not been briefed on the fact that such an act looks like imperialism? It doesn't matter if it was up for 15 minutes or 15 days, in this age of international television coverage and the internet, the image and its effects last for much longer than that.

The fact is, it happened, and never should have.

Originally posted by juventusita
Goto Iraq and ask an average person in a US occupied village whether they think the war is useless.

If you haven't figured it out, Iraq already fired scud missles. I believe that already makes every anti-war country and the UN look stupid. Now, people who didn't think that Saddam had illegal weapons - you're just a moron. But, for people who pretty much figured Saddam had these weapons - I guess it would be cool for Saddam to one day just fire these weapons at Iran, Kuwait, Israel, or whoever the **** he wanted?

So, Saddam lied about having illegal weapons, and you still believe he does not have weapons of mass destruction? Maybe they are not completed, but they will find chemical weapons.

It's not like millions of people are dying here. There's more Iraqi soldiers that surrendered that have died. They surrendered because they have no reason to fight. Only Saddam controlled them through terror, if not, they would provide more resistance. It's always terrible to hear soldiers die, but they aren't in the best of the best without being prepared to die for hundreds of thousands of Iraqi's freedom from terror and to protect the United States and the world (even if half the countries are a bunch of little girls) from future attacks.

There was no other option. No diplomacy would have saved this. The only way Saddam is going down is to die. It's not like the UN inspectors can really do their jobs either.

Go fight in what's left of the Republican Guard if you really care that much.

And yet again someone misses the point of those arguing against this war.

People that oppose this war DO NOT support Saddam. As I have said about 50 times on these boards alone.

*sigh* maybe you could get a job with CNN.