There is one single thing that Manchester United fans and players fear. It is something that has driven Alex Ferguson into such a mental hell-hole that he now bears personal vendettas against anyone involved with this particular club. They are: Liverpool FC.

Alex Ferguson will do anything in his power to prevent the title going to Anfield. While Manchester City are their traditional rivals, to the average United fan (middle class, lives in Truro, buys replica shirts... OK, cheap shot http://www.soccergaming.com/ubb/smile.gif) and to Alex Ferguson, they are the ultimate enemy.

One nightmare would be that United would not only end the season trophy-less, but this wouldn't be a major disaster compared to Liverpool winning the title (and to a lesser extent, Leeds). Ferguson is a man who cannot stand other people apart from himself winning, and when, during the late 80s and early 90s, he watched Liverpool take title after title while his own Manchester United side battled against relegation. His anger rubbed off on the team, who became determined to beat this side at all costs. The turning point was the 3-3 draw between the sides - after that point Liverpool plummeted, and Manchester United went from strength to strength.

But the Nightmare in the topic is that there is a role-reversal taking place. Liverpool are heading back to the top, and United, having conquered the highest peaks, will go into decline. My personal view is that the trend is starting. United are beginning to take draws from matches they'd normally win, and are scraping through some matches. The competition is getting closer.

What do you all think - are United in decline? Who will be the big team of the next decade? It'll be interesting to see how big the decline at Utd is, post-Ferguson, and whether a Red flag on Merseyside will fly highest of all once more.

Incidentally, if anyone's looking for a jobbing column-writer for their site (similar to the missive above), feel free to contact me on andrewd@entiredata.demon.co.uk and I'll be happy to oblige. http://www.soccergaming.com/ubb/smile.gif

Drinky, you bring tears to my eyes, BUT, we have to be realistic here. I seriously doubt that Man U are in a decline, they're still 6 points clear, and although I hope and pray Liverpool do well, I don't see them winning the league this year - not with all the injuries (of which there are so many). If they can beat Man U in a fortnight, perhaps I'll start to believe, but right now, I think 3rd place for a team that hasn't had their captain, and their two best strikers for most of the season, and a team that EVERYONE thought would do bad (Danny Kelly said we'd finish 11th) is pretty good.
As for Ferguson, there's no doubt he spent the early part of his career scared - he must have had nightmares about King Kenny, Barnes and Rush, but the 90s were United's decade - no doubt about it.
What I'm most afraid of is that United will spend their Vodaphone money to bring in someone like Rivaldo - a high cost, high earning player - and start a trend that'll change the EPL for ever. That's my biggest fear - that the EPL will become like Serie A, with no player loyalty and big name players moving from club to club. 15 years ago clubs in England used to have two or three testimonials a year - now you hardly here of anything...

BTW was I the ONLY one wishing/praying that Man U would sign a sponsorship deal with 'Yahoo!' ? ROFL Now those would be some 'interesting' kits....

My short answer: no I don't think Man U is in a decline, they are too rich. I think the cycle of up years then down years no longer really applies to the richest teams, because all they have to do is get some new top class players and they are on the top again.

Also I don't think Liverpool was in a real decline in the past decade because you could argue that year after year they had a realistic chance of fighting for the the top spot. I think they had the talent to get to the top but for some reason no good luck.

Now if we're talking Everton, that's a different story...

my answer!!!! shame shame man utd, shame shame man utd!!!

how great it is to beat the red's by what was it! 1....... nope 2 ....... nope.....oh now i remeber 3 goals!!!

Wow! Man Utd lose one game and now they're on a decline... give me a break! They're still first in the league, still in Champion's League... and the season hasn't even reached the midway point!

Neutral makes another good point... with their new Vodafone money, it is guaranteed that Man Utd will bring in a big-name player this summer... possibly a Rivaldo, Ronaldo, etc. ... I have read very likely Roberto Carlos.

At least, that's my opinion!

Becks,
but wouldn't you rather see more youth come up rather than buying mulit-millionare players - United are changing from being a team that supports a youth system to one that's quickly abandoning it. Twiss, Clegg, Walwork, and Greening (although he wasn't a product of the youth system) have all asked to be transfer listed because they feel they won't be given a spot in the team. This could really hurt United - because look at Liverpool - even though they bought foreigners their nucleus is still a very young team - Gerrard, Thompson, Carragher, Owen, Fowler, & Matteo - the more I think about it, the more Drinky's comments about a cycle seem apparent. Perhaps not a cycle of success, but one of using home-grown talent. Imagine if Ferguson had of got a continental right winger instead of giving beckham a chance, and beckham got sold to another team.....Greening et al, aren't crap, Greening plays for England U-21...besides, I don't really think Rivaldo would fit in United's play - he's slow in his build up while the rest of the midfield is fast...and where's he going to play - will he take Scoles' place behind the front two, and that would mean even less playing time for Nicky Butt.....however, Roberto Carlos would fit in wonderfully....

Every time I see a United fan saying 'We're going to bring in a big name player this summer!' I just can't help but laugh at their naivety. Its about time someone gave you some home truths:

1. Manchester United Football Club is run solely for profit. If something will eat into profits, it will not take place. If you gave the board at Manchester United the choice between spending £40 million on a player like Rivaldo, and _not_ spending the £40 million, they will go for the latter.

2. Manchester United have got where they are today because of Alex Ferguson. Forget the **** you read about the players spurring each other on to victory, the one man who has made Man Utd into a good team is Alex Ferguson. His arrogance, jealousy, and will to win has rubbed off on his players, particularly on Roy Keane. It is this that has enabled Manchester United to succeed - nothing else.

3. Nothing ever lasts forever, as Echo and the Bunnymen sang. Alex Ferguson cannot manage Manchester United forever. When his reign at United comes to an end, Manchester United's success will come to an end, if it has not happened already by that time. Nobody in the world could step into his shoes and do the same job as him. Without him, Manchester United are nothing more than a squad of players - with him, they are a team.

4. Other sides are improving, fast. In the last season, Leeds and Liverpool have made signings and blooded youngsters, and have moved up to almost the same notch as United. Meanwhile, Ferguson has spent £3 million on a dodgy keeper, god knows how much on Silvestre, who looks out of his depth, and cannot afford the £60,000+ wages of the top players. The youth at other sides, particularly Gerrard, Thompson and Owen at Liverpool and Smith, Bowyer, Bridges, and Kewell at Leeds, are getting better by the day, while the next generation of Man Utd's youth is being packed off to other clubs eg. Greening has just moved to another club, Rose has left, and others are being bid for.

Manchester United's decline started from the moment they left the pitch in Barcelona - they will never reach those heights again. With the moneymen upstairs keeping the purse-strings tight after the Taibi debacle and the £50 million spending of the season before, I wouldn't expect any expensive new signings in the near future. The biggest test United will face this season is coming in the next two weeks - Leeds and Liverpool are the two sides that could well be leapfrogging them, and unless United take all 6 points from the two games, we'll have a close battle for the title indeed - guaranteed.

Drinky, Ferguson has announced he will be leaving United Jan of 2001.

IMO he will be going over to the Scottish team. Craig Brown's contract expires Dec of this year. That means Ferguson has enough time to put in an application after Brown leaves http://www.soccergaming.com/ubb/smile.gif

Drinky... man, you gotta calm down... You make your points clear and concise... and I agree with you on some points...

But the truth is, look at United's team right now... the Nevilles, Butt, Scholes, Beckham, Giggs, Brown... these are all top-class players that were brought up through the youth system and they all play a prominent role in United... and until Manchester actually starts buying all these foreigners, you can't say that they are "selling out." What "big" team in the world right now has more of their youth players starting in the first 11 more than United??? Certainly not Barca, any Italian team, not Chelsea, not even Arsenal.

The reason why I said 'we are going to bring in a new player this summer' is because I have read countless articles saying how Ferguson is going to buy one big-name player (prob. Roberto Carlos to replace Irwin)... and with the new shirt deal with Vodafone... it makes a lot of sense. But it seems to me that you are getting 'mad' at United for buying international stars instead of playing their younger players... tell me, who would you choose if you could pick between Jonathan Greening and Roberto Carlos... obviously, Greening comes at a cheaper price but Man United are in such a position that they CAN afford both of these players... obviously, in this case, you go with Roberto Carlos, no disrespect to Greening.

Another thing is... we have to face it that soccer is no longer just a sport... it is a business. It may not be fair to such small market teams as Leicester, but the big teams like Man Utd, Arsenal, Chelsea, etc. can afford better and more expensive players because they are richer.

On the topic of Alex Ferguson, I hardly doubt that you can give all the credit to him and only him... no doubt he is the best manager in the world but he also had a lot of talent to work with!

I think the most important thing is that Man United is not in a decline... rather all the other teams are catching up to them... Leeds will be a top class team once they add a little more depth, Liverpool will be a much better side when they are injury-free, etc..

I would compare it to the hockey situation in Canada... all of Canada has made a big fuss over the past few years that we were not successful in the World Championships and the Junior Championships... we had meetings where all the national coaches and GMs got together to discuss the youth training, etc. However, the reality is that all the other teams are simply getting better... Russia, Sweden, Finland, etc. are simply getting better... Canada is not getting worse.

I don't think Man United is in a decline, and to be honest with you, I think the chances of them ever being in a decline are very small. I am not trying to be arrogant or anything, but the truth is, they are one of the richest teams in the world... and as long as they have the millions of fans around the world, the big shirt-deals, etc, etc. they will always be one of the best teams in England and Europe.

Sometimes the truth hurts.

[This message has been edited by Becks7 (edited 02-14-2000).]