So England versus France and NZ vesus Aussie. Pretty much as expected.

We have seen the English play for 30 minutes, the Wallabies play for 45, the French play for 60, and the AB's play for 80 minutes so far. Only the All Blacks have managed to control a game from start to finish, and that says something considering it is generally agreed to be the toughest of the quarter finals. The French I think look the most dangerous of the others, although the English did have flashes of brilliance. They will however be concerned that the Welsh outscored them 3 tries to one, especially considering there is no lack of try scoring ability in the French team. Wilko can kick all he likes but 5 points is better than 3 if the opposition is running in tries left right and centre. He did look much more composed tonight than he has all tournament, so maybe he is peaking at the right time for England. If England play well for 80 minutes next week, then they should get through, but I can't really pick that one with confidence. The final could be between any of these teams, so we will just have to see. Of all the teams it is the Wallabies who have the most work to do though. And France lost their concentration big time and were lucky they had had a glorious first half against the Irish.

Originally posted by Essendon BFC
Who Played Better:

England against Wales or Australia against Scotland?

England. Wales were a much better team than Scotland, and England were actually losing at half time rather than tied up as Aussie were. England though came back and completely dominated the game for 20 minutes after the restart. They played smarter, they capitalised on the mistakes and really didn't make any themselves after the break.

All in all England were very professional in the second half. As they did against Samoa, they didn't panic, they did what they needed to and took the kicks when they were gifted to them. They showed why they are number one in the world. Sure they were pushed defensively, but then Wales did the same last week to NZ. As much as I hated to see it, England looked pretty damn good for the early stages of the second half, took the points and did what they needed to make the game safe, then soaked up any renewed Welsh pressure from there.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by rhizome17
[B]So England versus France and NZ vesus Aussie. Pretty much as expected.

I disagree that England played better than the Wallabies. Sure they came from behind to win but if Wales made the most of their second half chances they would have won. Englands defence looked fragile last night and their attack relied on a couple of individuals to spark something.I think Australias defence has been one of the best in the Cup. Sure were bombing a lot of chances in attack but our line isn't being broken that much either, even when Ireland had all the popssession in the second half last week our defence stayed strong and held them out.

Mike Catt came on at half time and pretty much took over the fly half position in attack with Wilkinson being reverted to a specialist kicking position. He may as well been playing Grid iron. I wasn't at all impressed with Englands performance. Credit to Wales who have certainly played above expectations during this tournament.

France on the other hand are getting better and better. They made Ireland look like a minnow side in the first half and even when they switched off in the second hald Ireland never looked like winning even if they did win the second half.

I'm still glad that The top 4 made it through because you want to see the best at this stage of a World Cup.

I dont care who wins as long as it's not England. england are playing very boring football at the moment relying on penalties and drop goals to win games. This is a problem that has followed Northern Hemisphere rugby for too long although France are trying to rectify it.

I'll even cheer for the All Blacks if they make the final against England and you wont see me do that too often, although I think France might take England out this week.

Thats my opinion on this sorry if others dont agree but I find England to be a negative Rugby side who rely on one player too much. Plus I dont want the cup to go North for the fist time.

Yes they are a negative rugby side, but I think they were better than the Wallabies because they came back and played very professional football. Yes their defence was exposed but then Wales seem to have developed a knack for exposing defensive flaws... and then they only got the one try in the second half, whereas England kept pressuring and forcing the welsh into persisten errors. The Welsh were a much better side than Scotland to contend with. As Dwyer said, a team could beat Scotland blindfolded, and for the firstr half it actually looked like the Wallabies had taken his advice.

The Wallabies may very well step up a level if they get their selection right, especially in the forwards where their lineout was disasterous, but England would have monstered the Wallabies based on the weekends performance. Sailor is clueless, Rogers should stop handling the butter before the game... it is just a step too far for them at the moment imo.

Originally posted by danger zone
[QUOTE]Originally posted by rhizome17
[B]So England versus France and NZ vesus Aussie. Pretty much as expected.

Hey Dangerzone

NZ 91 Tonga 7
Wales 27 Tonga 20
NZ 53 Wales 37
England 28 Wales 17 (and England were extremely fortunate)

Dangerzone didnt you say Australia New Zealand or South Africa would appear in the final?

And that France wouldnt stand a chance but were outsiders like Ireland? proves you didnt know what to expect or what you were talking about.

________

And Harris should be with Sailor and stayed with League:kader:

While not wishing to be dragged back into this nonsense as I am right of course I was just wondering something kid. When did I say France were outsiders? Read the post in the 'why bother with the wc thread' where I said NZ, Aus, Fra, SA and Eng would all make the Quarters. When have France ever been outsiders? Can you provide proof of where I said that? Do you think I started watching rugby a week ago? Didn't know what to expect eh? Hows that then when the same teams progress every time? I've watched rugby longer than you have. I made that quote two days into the tournament! Those teams have made the quarters of every tornament played!Who would ever have expected eh? France, Aussie, All Blacks and England in the semis! What a turn up! I really expected Nambia, Uruguay, USA and Romania. Same teams. Same games. Big deal, Wales played alright. They finished third in 1987. They played Tonga in the 1987 wc. They won 29-16. That was supposed to be a big result back then. And if I said SA, Aussie or NZ would be in the final I was right wasn't I? So how does that make me look stupid? Just because SA were eliminated? Cant have all three in the final can you? And why did you post NZ 91 Tonga 7 score? Rugbys still the same one sided game- Japan havent won a WC game since 1991.

Heres some more bollocks for you.

1987 Quarter Finals:

All Blacks vs Scotland
Ireland Vs Australia
Fiji Vs France
Wales Vs England


2003 Quarters:
All Blacks Vs South Africa )who would have been in the quarters in 87 if eligible)
Scotland Vs Australia
Ireland Vs France
Wales Vs England

Wow note the big change in teams over sixteen years.

Everything you just wrote is fictional. I never said any of it.

Anyway, one trick ponies get boring after a while....

So onto more serious matters. Looks like Giteau is out for the game this weekend, which may be a good thing for the AB's, but at least the future of the Wallabies looks bright with the emrgence of him and Whittaker.
Hopefully NZ can prevent the Aussies from turning it into a set piece match, because although the AB lineout has looked stronger than Aussie, any team is dangerous from set pieces.
Hopefully MacDonald can make the step up in his new position this weekend. He was protected somewhat at Centre by the fact the boks game was fought and won in the forwards, but I have a feeling this weeks game is going to be much more reliant on the prowess of the respective backlines. If MacDonald starts to look uncomfortable, hopefully Mitchell sees sense and switches him around with Muliaina, whose runs from centre could have more impact than from fullback, where he can be isolated for great chunks of the game. Everytime he gets the ball he beats two or three players, so trying him out at centre may help.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by rhizome17
[B]Anyway, one trick ponies get boring after a while...

Yeah the whole WC right......

Originally posted by danger zone
[QUOTE]Originally posted by rhizome17
[B]Anyway, one trick ponies get boring after a while...

Yeah the whole WC right......

Haha you must be joking, or just hate rugby. Even a moron can recognise a great game when they see one, and in the last few weeks, we have had a fair few...England versus Samoa, England versus Wales, All Blacks versus Wales, All Blacks versus South Africa, Australia versus Ireland, ... if you only base the worthiness on the results, then one may as well just read the results each day and not bother tuning in live. Actually, why even have stadiums? May as well let the teams play behind closed doors, and then we can sit around and just comment on the results since that is all that you seem to care about.

Looks like you have lost touh with more than rugby in the last few years... reality, for example. I for one have not once suggested that the quarter final places were really in doubt, but at least I am able to watch, recognise and enjoy a contest when I see one (or five).

Hehe I for one am going to enjoy the semi finals and the final - at least rugby is a sport played by more than one country at a competitive level. You just keep those shades on and stick to club teams and franchises - I won't be worrying too much about the uninformed opinion of an expat this weekend. If you really don't like rugby that much.... then theres not much point commenting on it, is there :|. I couldn't give a toss about ice hockey, but you don't see me lurking in that thread, do ya (H)

You say uninformed, but thanks to Fox SportsWorld here in the USA I've had the pleasure of watching the Super 12, the NPC and every international played this year including the whole Rugby WC. In other words every single thing youve watched.

And nah I dont hate rugby man. I grew up with it like you. I was in the Palmerston North Boys High 2nd XV in the early 90's. I feel the WC is just redundant because you know who will make it. Being overseas means nothing. Ive got J.K. running through my blood pal. I could name any All Black for you. Even Marty Berry. I havent lost touch with anything. I'll say this though. Growing up I never thought Kiwis were too rugby mad. Yes its the no 1 sport by a mile but at secondary school none talked about it. No one cared if the All Blacks lost. Except the rector in 1990 when they lost to a French Selection. Watching the NPC semi finals I noticed the stadiums were half empty, something thats always been the case. If the nation was truly rugby mad they would be packed right? But I said that back in the mid 90's.

I know everything going on. It's a small world now. Living in the USA means nothing.

Thats cool.

And Kiwis are not too rugby mad, not like 30 years ago. The population has changed ethnically and diversified culturally, so rugby isn't the central community activity it once was. NPC crowds have been falling for along time now, but that is a result of the introduction of the Super 12, people would much rather see a game between international clubs than local ones now. The old rivalries still get big crowds (Auckland/ Canterbury, Canterbury/ otago) but the influx of money has seen the big clubs get bigger and the small ones suffer.

And people will still wake up if the AB's lose. It doesn't have the hold that football has in, say, Argentina, on the nations psyche, but it is also a big deal for the media.

Personally, I didn't follow rugby too much for ten years, from 1991 until say two years ago. The state of Victoria probably has less coverage of union than the US, and in England I only had time for one team (City). But I have enjoyed watching the Blues and the All Blacks lately.

Hpw can a competition be predictable when any of 6 teams can win it?

thats the same with any compitition like NHL, NFL or even Rugby League.

Bag the WC all you want Dangerzone - even the comptitions biggest rival the NRL (League) is very jealous.

I have been here arguing with you about this competition, yet in a league supporter - all ways have and will be and looking at this wc - i dont see it (league) surviving.

Progress you want - closser scores you want - well heres the start and Rugby will continue to grow - you say "how but ive been hearing it for years"

You only have to look at the professionalism of the game to realise progress - to see money in Japan, grow in American numbers - the games is no progressing - whether you believe it or not doesnt matter 89 countries competing shows - whether they majority were expats or not the fact they had enough resources to compet is proof enough.

Domination by the 6 or so teams will end - much likes Brazils continual decades of dominance

Originally posted by rhizome17
Thats cool.

And Kiwis are not too rugby mad, not like 30 years ago. The population has changed ethnically and diversified culturally, so rugby isn't the central community activity it once was. NPC crowds have been falling for along time now, but that is a result of the introduction of the Super 12, people would much rather see a game between international clubs than local ones now. The old rivalries still get big crowds (Auckland/ Canterbury, Canterbury/ otago) but the influx of money has seen the big clubs get bigger and the small ones suffer.

And people will still wake up if the AB's lose. It doesn't have the hold that football has in, say, Argentina, on the nations psyche, but it is also a big deal for the media.

Personally, I didn't follow rugby too much for ten years, from 1991 until say two years ago. The state of Victoria probably has less coverage of union than the US, and in England I only had time for one team (City). But I have enjoyed watching the Blues and the All Blacks lately.

I agree with what you've said. People still get angry when the Blacks lose. Even me.

**** why do the IRB have to release a revised rankings list whilse the WOrld CUp is on... no surprise that the All Blacks have displaced ENgland as number one, but why do it while the tournament is on? WHy not wait until it is over. Me thinks it smacks of trying to install NZ as favorites when all the buildup was about how England would smash all before them... and now we have seen they are a bit wobbly.

Stupid IRB :kader:

Rhizome: I think Whitaker is pretty old, he has been around for ages, so he hasnt exactly "emerged"...The selectors should have put him in ahead of Gregan about 2 years ago...Wish they would now...

I think that Giteau, Tirunui (wouldnt have a clue on spelling and cbf looking it up), and Whitaker will be our best inside 3 backs soon...

As for the World Cup being a one horse race Dangerzone..And as for your statements regarding who will make the quarter finals being predicatable...consider how close Samoa and Argentina came. Also the one horse race statement doesnt say much for the tournament...It is still wide open, and any of the last 4 sides could win it...I think that Australia would be the under dogs at the moment, and the kiwis the favourites (their matching up in the semi may be why Aust. are my under dogs ;))...But really any of the 4 sides could win.

Originally posted by Alex
Rhizome: I think Whitaker is pretty old, he has been around for ages, so he hasnt exactly "emerged"...The selectors should have put him in ahead of Gregan about 2 years ago...Wish they would now...

Is he? It is just that I always remember Gregan being there.... does he play for the Waratahs or the Reds? But you can't take Gregan out, he is my primary reason to bollock the Wallabies :p but Sailor is fast becoming a replacement :mrpimp:

Originally posted by Alex
I think that Giteau, Tirunui (wouldnt have a clue on spelling and cbf looking it up), and Whitaker will be our best inside 3 backs soon...


They already are (H)

Nevertheless, I am nervous about the semi (again). I just hope I will be able to make my 'special' post at SGO come Sunday...:confused: ;)

lol, Special Post, Lets hope not :p

Originally posted by rhizome17
but Sailor is fast becoming a replacement :mrpimp:


Yeah @ Suncop you could hear this:

"Give it to Wendy!" and someone about rows up would say "WHY?!"

Originally posted by rhizome17
does he play for the Waratahs or the Reds?

I cant remember, but he played very good in the super12 this year. Thats why he got selected.

Well, the closer this game comes the more nervous I get...

I expect it will be a game dominated by the forwards again. Both teams have a back three that are capable of inflicting maximum damage, and although the All Blacks back three have had more playing time together, you can't underestimate Rogers, Sailor and Tuqiri IF they get their game right on the day. Both teams will be desperate to ensure that the ball doesn't make its way to the wings, so I expect there will be some big hits on the inside backs. I feel sorry for anyone that has to get through Jerry Collins though, I think he is probably the hardest tackler to take the field in this semi.

Interesting that the Wallabies are talking about targeting Carlos though. If anything it could be a signal for him to delve deeper into his bag of tricks. I think in general though the Wallabies inside backs might have it over the AB's, as MacDonald, Mauger and Spencer only have a couple of games experience playing together.

I am also worried about the AB defensive line, as although SA didn't get a try they came close and the Wallabies will punish the gaps more than SA were capable of.

I just hope the Wallaby defence have a bad game, although if anyone is to penetrate it it has to be the AB's...

Originally posted by Larry
I cant remember, but he played very good in the super12 this year. Thats why he got selected.

who are we talking about here?

Whitaker

All Blacks choke again. Just like 1991 all over except this team should have done it.

Just like 1999 also.

hahahaha

I thought the World Cup was predictable? :p

How many people were saying All Black Vs England final at the beginning of the World Cup?

The Aussies played close to the perfect game, if I was England or France Id be worried...From the start of the World Cup Ive said the winner of this semi would win the World Cup. I still believe it. England and France I can see both cracking under pressure, where as the Wallabies always seem to lift. England have also looked pretty shaky, against Wales and against Samoa. My head tips France in that semi, on current form, but I think maybe the whole psychological edge may give the game to England...Either way, in the heat, and on form, the Wallabies will be hard to beat!

Yep, the Aussies played close to the perfect game, although I would qualify that by saying it was the perfect game to beat the All Blacks, not sure it would work against England.

But they were fantastic nonetheless. Possession was always going to be the key, and they didn't kick it away at all. The All Blacks never looked like they had a Plan B, whereas the Aussies looked like they had been planning for this game for months (which they probably had been).
Stirling Mertlock was brilliant, and it makes me wonder if this wan't a game tailor made for Umagas power - we will never know now. The defence shut out our main threat in the back three, our forwards looked clueless because they had no space to work with, and our ill discipline on defence and simple handling errors let us down at crucial times. Actually, we looked like the Wallabies did against Ireland... whereas Aussie looked like a team who had finally found their rhythm at precisely the right moment.

So well done, and go win the final :rockman:

PS. Not sure I should let other Kiwis know this, but I made $200 out of this game... Aussie were paying $4.50 at the bookies and I couldn't resist, so at least I have had a small victory :mrpimp:

Originally posted by Rob
Just like 1999 also.

Rob man, I should have listened to you at the start, you were correct in everything you said, but ah well, just another 4 years to wait:(

Originally posted by rhizome17
PS. Not sure I should let other Kiwis know this, but I made $200 out of this game... Aussie were paying $4.50 at the bookies and I couldn't resist, so at least I have had a small victory

Just to boost your ego in case NZ lost (which they did)?:p

Mortlock played the game of his life. Larkam also had a blinder.

Great to see.

We will beat France in the final.

So the Australian players are aussies, the New Zealanders are kiwis, and the Irish are patties, What are the English?




Bloody Assholes

^^^ Convo between my friend and his dad (H) :D

The English are Poms.

Originally posted by choppy
We will beat France in the final.

no you won't we won today- roll on saturday

france would have beat you anyway;)

you say the english are arrogant, but at least we show a bit of respect and aknowledge that other teams are performing.

thats what really pisses me off bout some of you aussies. If you loose, its anything exept the fact that the team that beat you was plainly better, and when your winning your all so damned arrogant and so quick to dismiss other teams.

Alex you really do take biscuit mate :p. (haha - sorry thinking back to out MSN convos here)
Theres always an excuse youve got for not performing, but because england are not in the form they were in before the WC ... were just plain crap then right ??
Says a lot that a team who are playing nowhere near to thier best ability have still gotten to the final. Imagine what would have happened if we were on form.

Call me arrogant if you like, but really im not, i respect you all. The aussies have a good team, i expect it to be a great game of rugby. I just hate the fact that you guys cant see it the same way.

Cheers

Nath

P.S - Plz nobody take anything personally, its not ment as a personal insult to anyone.

England are fitter than the Aussies.
Aussies have their fans behind them.


But England have something like 30,000 Barmy Army fans behind them, plus we have Saint Johnny.


England will win...... just.

Originally posted by choppy
Mortlock played the game of his life. Larkam also had a blinder.

Great to see.

We will beat France in the final.

France my arse.

Jokes on u Choppy.

lol, Joke will *Hopefully* be on you on Saturday.

Originally posted by Number9
you say the english are arrogant, but at least we show a bit of respect and aknowledge that other teams are performing.

thats what really pisses me off bout some of you aussies. If you loose, its anything exept the fact that the team that beat you was plainly better, and when your winning your all so damned arrogant and so quick to dismiss other teams.

Alex you really do take biscuit mate :p. (haha - sorry thinking back to out MSN convos here)
Theres always an excuse youve got for not performing, but because england are not in the form they were in before the WC ... were just plain crap then right ??
Says a lot that a team who are playing nowhere near to thier best ability have still gotten to the final. Imagine what would have happened if we were on form.

Call me arrogant if you like, but really im not, i respect you all. The aussies have a good team, i expect it to be a great game of rugby. I just hate the fact that you guys cant see it the same way.

Cheers

Nath

P.S - Plz nobody take anything personally, its not ment as a personal insult to anyone.

hehe, I replied in the other thread, so I wont bother repeating...What you've failed to mention tho is this: You're saying that no one is givng England credit for playing "not at their best" but still winning...The point is who have they really had to test them (before the France game)...It follows that, to be honest Australia havent been at their best since last season, until that game against the All Blacks..Whether that has turned things around for good remains to be seen...

Either way, it seems that both Australia and England have peaked at the right time...The dieing stages of the World Cup.

Yes, I do have excuses, but usually it is the players missing...I mean the last time we played you guys we were using our 4th string 5/8th-your namesake ;)...He is a decent inside centre, but even in his favoured position he cant get a start in the Wallabies best team...He was playing out of position, in perhaps the most important position the last time we played England. We were also a very new side. We didnt know where to play half of our backline: Rogers, Burke, Latham, Sailor, Tuqiri, and Roff were all coming and going, in and out of the side, and our best attacking back: Mortlock was also injured. I mean there are excuses, and there are excuses.

We have none for Saturday. If you win, Ill give it to you: You're a better Rugby side than the Wallabies. But Id still rate the All Blacks as the worlds best ...

I caught the end of the Aussie-NZ game and it has to be said that the Aussies stopped everything thrown at them. I only saw the last 20mins though so I can't say if NZ choked or anything but to be honest they were within 2 tries of winning over the last 15mins and just seemed to lack a captain.

No-one raised their game in an attempt to take a bit of control. They just seemed to run into the Aussies and that was all they tried. I was thinking that if they mix it up a bit and someone, in a Keano style, starts yelling at them and picking them up then they could still stage a comeback. But their heads dropped and they were beaten well before the final whistle. It was a disappointing end to their WC.

But England are now, officially, the most boring and one dimensional team in the history of rugby, but it works :yawn:. It must be good to be an English rugby fan but, my word, I woke up to watch the match and I wish I'd looked out of the window to watch the grass grow. Kick, kick, kick, kick with a bit of good defending and poor French handling (due to the rain no doubt) mixed in.

I think the conditions played into Englands hands yesterday, making it difficult to keep the ball in hand and stopping France playing the type of game they play. Seeing as France don't have someone with the boot of Wilkinson it proved their downfall. But ****, England had 0 creativity or endevour. They'd kick it down the pitch, France would cock up and give a pen which Wilko would convert or he would try a drop goal. They never, ever looked like getting passed France in any other way.

If I were to choose a winner from the weekends performance, I'd say the Aussies, quite easily.

Bracken reckons that England hadn't tried up until the game against France and now they are moving up the gears. Now that's the arrogance England have and it's no wonder their team is disliked by the rest of the rugby world. To be honest, they looked stagnant against France and were it not for Wilkinson they would've been out and the same can be said of the game against Wales.

Going up the gears? I don't think so, but the Aussies are. I'll be hoping the Aussies win another World Cup, they can play proper rugby.

Im hoping for a dry final...In the wet, itll again be dominated by kicking, and England will likely triumph...If its dry (and lets hope bloody hot for those poor little northerners :p) then the Aussie backs will come into their own...

NZ finished 3rd.....
a good match, 40-13 :p

It was a flat match from two flat teams. NZ improved markedly when MacDonald went off and was replaced by Carter, and Carlos benefited from the quicker ball provided by Devine - also note that Devine was there in almost every attacking movement - basically, for a while there we had the team that SHOULD have faced the Wallabies. But then an argument could be made that the French didn't cut the possession like the Wallabies did.
Anyway, at least we can focus on rebuilding now for France 2007. And it was a nice touch, that the AB's were voted team of the year by their peers. Also, likely that Howlett and Muliaina will finish top tryscorers, followed by Rokocoko, for the tournament as a whole.
All in all a good season from the All Blacks, who only lost twice the entire year, and the future looks very promising indeed. Shame that Umaga had to finish the year the way he did, but then thats sport, innit.

The All Black's have had a very good season, only losing the two games.
The side they played last night especially after Macdonald went off looked a lot sharper than the one that played the Wallabies.
Makes the decision to play Kellaher over Devine even more bizarre. Carter looked real good and proved to be a much better goal kicker.

Brad Thorne has improved out of site this season. It took him a while to readjust to rugby but I think he will now be a key player for the all blacks for the next few years.

Things certainly look good with all the young talent they have at the moment. It's a pity for them they couldn't finish off this season, but I'm pretty glad they didn't.

It seemed a bit flat watching the game as there was no atmosphere in the stadium even though 65,000 were there.

Bring on Saturday night.

Originally posted by choppy

Makes the decision to play Kellaher over Devine even more bizarre. Carter looked real good and proved to be a much better goal kicker.

Brad Thorne has improved out of site this season. It took him a while to readjust to rugby but I think he will now be a key player for the all blacks for the next few years.



Bring on Saturday night.

(Y) Devine is the future halfback for the AB's, or at least as long as Spencer is playing as they link so well.
Thorn I think will continue to be an impact player who is brought on when they need some muscle. Ali Williams is needed because of his height in the lineouts. I actually think Thorn would be a great number 8, if Collins wasn't also great in that role.

AS for Carter, I expect him to be the long-term replacement for Spencer. And he is a great prospect, creative as well as a good goalkicker. Lets hope Spencer can pass some of his magic on to him.

I am looking forward to the Super 12 next year though. Being a BLues supporter it will be great to see Rokocoko, Howlett, Muliaina, Rupeni, Spencer, Devine, Ali Williams, Mealamu, Meuuws all in the same team again :rockman: . Seems such an unfair advantage when you make a list like that :p . And I am hoping that a few of the forwards from the Blues can also make an impact and get into the AB's alongside the backline.

Originally posted by rhizome17
I am looking forward to the Super 12 next year though. Being a BLues supporter it will be great to see Rokocoko, Howlett, Muliaina, Rupeni, Spencer, Devine, Ali Williams, Mealamu, Meuuws all in the same team again :rockman: . Seems such an unfair advantage when you make a list like that :p . And I am hoping that a few of the forwards from the Blues can also make an impact and get into the AB's alongside the backline.

Well, as a Hurricanes supporter, it will be great to see Nonu, Umaga, Collins and So'oialo in the same team again:p (H)

Heres a tip - just before the Hurricanes reach the tryline, get them to pass it to So'oialo, especially if they are playing the Blues :p (H)

Absolutely pissing dowm rain here at the moment and it doesn't look like it's gonna stop real soon.


If England cant win tonight in these conditions with the team they have they will never win one. Perfect conditions for the pommy forwards.

lalala....the final starting in 15 minutes :D ;) :rockman:

5-3 to Australia after 12 minutes! (H)

c'mon england!!!!!!!
i hope they win .
someone has to get australia from winning every title in every sport.and the team seems like england

i bet there will be no tries in the game.don't seem to happen so far

Australia have already scored a try. :rolleyes:

down at half time, things are looking bad:(

someone should take out jonny again

its 14-11 in favour of england...

Extra time here we come. What if we are still equal. Do we go to dropouts?

Can't ****in believe this, we were seconds away from victory.

c'mon england c'mon england....
what a clash this match is.....:confused:

OMG, What a game! What a game!
This is anything but Boring.

what a finish...!!!!!!!
what a game..!!!!!!!
lol....the comentator sounds like crying....
seconds remaining and win....
yeesss
england :rockman:

WOOOHOOOO!!!!!

WE DESERVE THIS!!! :rockman: :rockman:

Engeeeeeeeeerrrrrrrland.

Cant believe I actually watched 100 minutes of Rugby.

:D

Congrats England.
Best side for two years, deserve this. Great Game.



























Lets talk Cricket :D

Congrats England...

It was a great match just for the intensity throughout...

I always said we would struggle in the wet, and without making excuses, the match went pretty much as expected...

What a final tho! It was still plagued by Rugbys silly point system, and therefore was all about kicking, but when it came to the crunch England shined, and Australia didnt...

Are England the best team in the world? Well Ill say they're the World Champions, Im still not convinced theyre better than the All Blacks...Considering Australia only beat NZ because of a perfectly executed gameplan, its hard to know how to gauge England against the Blacks...

But, as I said , England are the World Champions. Thats what it comes down to. And lets admit it, it was inevitable. Everyone that knows anything about statisitcs knows that its inevitable that England would win A sport eventually against the Aussies ;)

Oh just realised...Did I say congrats England? I meant Congrats Jonny Wilkinson ;)

Lets admit it, that is still what the English team boils down to. If Flatley had shot at 100%, as Wilkinson had, it would have been a different story...In fact, considering how badly I think that we played, we did a great job to get so close :D

On a side note...How stupid were the Aussies in the last 1min and a half...all we had to do was hold it for 2-3 phases, than kick for territory...Instead, we rush a kick, dont even make it to half way, and give Wilkinson a chance to win it?? :(

:hump:

congrats england, the wallabies were struggling all night to get in front, england just kept getting ahead through jonny.

It just had too be Johnny Wilkinson too get the deciding drop kick.

Great day too Be English. :rockman: :rockman:

Good too see a sea of white in the stands too ;)

and good ole Jason Robinson showing the aussie's England can score tries :hump:

Great Game Of Rugby Aussies Gave it there All But Jonnie is too Good

YES YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

England - World Champions

You've done us prond England

England was better team but it was sad to see Australia lose... They(Australia) tried so hard and fought back but too bad that damn Jonny Wilkinson is damn too good...

Oh yes,

too rite TOON ARMY

you've done us proud England

:D (H) :rockman:

that guy wilkinson is too good! :(

england are a 1 man team, if japan had wilkinson then theyd probebly be world cup champions

Congratulations to my beloved England.

And well done Australia for what was an extremely tight, hard, nerve-wracking and well-contested final for both sets of fans. A pity there had to be a loser in this one.

And what a great sight to see the English fans joining in the singing of "Waltzing Matilda". The true spirit of sport.

Martin Johnson and the lads - you've done us proud with your tremendous TEAMWORK! and spirit.

(please note the emphasis on teamwork for all of you "England is a one man team" people. :rolleyes: )

Look forward to the English media ramming this down our throats at every oportunity for the next 50 years :(

Man, what a way to end the World cup, boiling down to the last few seconds of extra time.. All I can say is that I hate Jonny Wilkinson:p

Wilkinson ruins a good final. They need a rule saying you need to win the match with trys :(

Here we go Wilkinson bashing time

He's the best at what he does, face it you wouldn't complain if he was Australian

We are not a 1 man army there was a huge amount of teamwork involved!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Now I was out at Telstra Stadium, and the atmosphere was awesome!!! A few English girls at the end consoled me with a few choice kisses but it was all good fun... there were are a couple of drunken people fighting but 99.9% were very good about winning and loosing and I was very congladuatory to the English and they were glad to see we (Australia) we gracious in defeat. Even though my team lost the English didn't exactly make you feel bad for loosing last night, however, I do complain about the beer queues... see below!

(sorry for the size of the pic)

http://oceania.soccergaming.com/beer.JPG

BEER QUEUES PEOPLE!

Well, what a perfect way to end what has been a fantastic tournament. Congratulations to the Aussies for being so good at hosting these events, and to England for winning the cup.

As for the game itself, well imo the best team won on the night. There have been several comments about Wilkinson, but at the end of the day you need the forwards power and teamwork to set him up for a drop goal, he just ices the cake. The English forwards are just oo experienced, too hard, to big, too strong and too good. As a team, they have proven themselves to be the best. I just don't think the All Blacks, with current selection and coaching, are as good as either of the finalists last night. The AB's certainly are exciting to watch, but don't have an alternative gameplan if their backs get shut down.

ANd England proved last night they are more than a one-dimensional, or one man, team. Their forwards out muscled the Aussies all night. Congrats to Australia though, in the last 20 minutes of the first half it looked like England were going to run away with it, but Aussie fought back and at the end of the day, if Flatley had connected with a few more kicks I doubt anyone would be complaining too loudly about the points sytem. ;) But yeah, Aussie fought back and it really was anyones game in extra time, and it just had to be that after three failed attempts, Wilko would succeed with the most important drop goal attempt.
But like I said, England proved they have a few more ideas than they are accused of. Jason Robinson is a player any team would be proud to have on their wing. The forwards, again they proved they are wily old characters. TIndall and his replacement Catt did exactly what was required, Dawson was walking a fine line but was still fantastic at HB, and Wilkinson made some excellent runs and passes as well as his kicks. I think that the All Blacks would have been torn to shreds last night, we simply don't have the forwards to counter a team like Australia, let alone England.

Fact remains that it was one try a piece, so I don't think one can argue Aussie have any more 'flair' than England. If anything it was two very similar gameplans, England went wide far more often than I expected and got nearer the tryline more times than the Wallabies did, it was individual errors in the wet conditions that let them down. If these errors hadn't occurred then Aussie could very well have suffered a blowout scoreline.

THe unfortunate thing (for me anyway) is that this result will make it harder to prise the cup back downunder. ENgland already has twice as many players, and far more money, in Rugby than New Zealand does. And winning the cup will only increase the advantage. ANd considering the next cup is in the Northern Hemisphere, I am expecting that England will surely have a great chance of retaining it. Sure there will be a large number of retirements, but the way Woodward has Englsih rugby running, I am sure there will be plenty of replacements.

Oh well, it is fitting that the game of the tournament occurred in the final, and all in all the best overall team won, and deservedly so. As much as I wanted Australia to win (well, after they beat the AB's anyway), I would have felt that the better team did not win. England have set the benchmark, now we have to hope one of our teams can raise the bar to meet them.

ANd I hope the NZ'ers look at this tournament and realise how young the All Blacks were compared to the accumulated years and experience of the finalists last night - we got to the semis this time with very very young players, and this experience will surely put them in good stead for the next tournament. I mean, Rokocoko will still only be 24 for France 2007 (H) .

Plain and simple, England won last night as a team, not because of WIlkinson.

Matt Dawsons break put them into position and Wilkinson did what he is payed a lot of money to do.

I thought it was an amazing finish to a fine tournament. The might of the world number 1 versus the defending champs. Both teams threw everthing they had at each other with the difference being superboot himself. Not to blame Flately but 3 missed penalties hurt a lot.

Aussies scored first from a kick and the place erupted, but hang on dont we hate England because they can only score from kicks.

The defence of both sides was outstanding. Tindall and Greenwood in the centers for England deserve special mention. even Johnny was strong in defence, his hit on Giteau wsa probably the hit of the match. Evertime Flatley, Motlock, Lyons and Larkam ran at tham they were belted backwards.

Robinson at the back for England was at his best choosing when to kick and run. Dawson made several breaks around the rucks including the crucial one at the end. The forwards were their usual dominance, the rolling maul was strong all though I thought the Aussies countered it as well as any team I have seen. The scrum monstered ours, we were constanly on the back foot from the scrum. How can any one say that they are not a great team.

Australia should be proud of the Wallabies last night. Werent we the team who couldnt make it past the quarters. For a team who were supposedly so bad we were 20 seconds away from a possible world cup triumph, if it weren't for that bastard who kicks the ball like no other before him.

We just had no answers in attack. Everyone including myself said we would tear them up out wide. Wrong. We tried to play to that tactic but went nowhere when we did. We ended up playing a game very similar to Englands, it was the only option.

I dony think that there was a bad player on the field (Was Wendell Sailor even on the field), sure there was alot of handling errors but look at the weather.

England had been accused of playing boring rugby, hell I was probably one of the main culprits there, but last night they were far from boring. They came into the tournament ranked no.1 and they leave with that title.

Great finish and I'm proud of the way that the Aussies have played over the last few weeks. Things look good for next year.

This was the second best game I have seen, just behind that Bledisloe game in Sydney where the Aussies came from 24 down to even the score only for Lomu to snatch victory at the end.

Originally posted by TOON ARMY
Here we go Wilkinson bashing time

He's the best at what he does, face it you wouldn't complain if he was Australian

We are not a 1 man army there was a huge amount of teamwork involved!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Im not bashing him at all. He is a very very good kicker and a great runner with the ball. His tackling is great, but the game was so exciting, and he runied it with that stupid kick.

Ruined it with a Kick, would you rather not take the kick and let aussie win the match just so the game isnt ruined. If it was Spencer or Carter or some NZ guy you would want him to take the Kick.

No i wudnt have. I would have wanted them to score a try.

Originally posted by Larry
No i wudnt have. I would have wanted them to score a try.

Bollocks if it was Australia in a good posistion for the kick i think you would take it!!

Originally posted by Larry
Wilkinson ruins a good final. They need a rule saying you need to win the match with trys :( did you not watch the game?? or did you just have your eyes closed when Jason Robinson scored Englands TRY

and the fella going on about if Japan had Johnny Wilkinson then they'd probably win the world cup, perhaps that could be possible and I very doubt Japan would be complaining, nor would you if you had a kicker of his quality.

The Man is an unbelievable talent but as was stated in an earlier posts, his kicks would mean nothing if England were'nt good defensively as the aussies would have walked it.

Jason Robinsons speed etc.

If it was on the other foot you wouldnt be complaining about Wilkinson.

Now "Lets all Do The Johnny"

yeah i did watch it actually. i guess you may have apoint, but still cant you see my side?

Originally posted by footiemad

and the fella going on about if Japan had Johnny Wilkinson then they'd probably win the world cup, perhaps that could be possible and I very doubt Japan would be complaining, nor would you if you had a kicker of his quality.

The Man is an unbelievable talent but as was stated in an earlier posts, his kicks would mean nothing if England were'nt good defensively as the aussies would have walked it.

Jason Robinsons speed etc.

If it was on the other foot you wouldnt be complaining about Wilkinson.
[/B]
Well said that man ....

Although id just like to add a bit too :D.

The guy is a phenomenal kicker (and all round fly half), but if Larkham or Flatley had been in the same position for Aus as wilkinson was for england they would have knocked over the three points too (and hit the target).

People who say that England are only good because of Jonny Wilkinson dont know the first thing.
No disrespect, but they must see that without the england pack constantly battering the opposition, Johnsons leadership and tactical skills (and supposting backs in defense etc). Wilkinson wouldnt have a touch of the ball to be able to even attempt a drop goal.

I firmly believe that if Jonny was on his own without a decent pack (say he was Scottish :D) he wopuldnt get half of the chances he does, and as such wouldnt be half as good as he is. However ... If wlikinson was scottish, and we had Gregor Townsend he would still be so much better than half of the opposing #10's, because of the team around him.

This is bollox. YES hes a good player on his own. But my god, with that team round him hes world class.

Originally posted by Number9
YES hes a good player on his own. But my god, with that team round him hes world class.

Have to agree with that for the most part. I would still take the AB's back three over England's, and Howlett, Muliaina and Rokocoko are just starting their international careers and already finished the top try scorers at the WC.
If only we had the english forwards we would be welcoming the cup right now. ANd hopefully Dan Carter can develop into a player in the same mold as Wilkinson. Carlos is still the better open play flyhalf in the world, but without the forwards giving him the right ball (and accurate delivery from a good scrum half) he doesn't get the time he needs to express his game. Dan Carter can hopefully hone his open play, and he ended up the most accurate of the three AB kickers so he has that dmension covered as well.

Ive always thought MATT DAWSON is the best srcum half in the world but in the final just secured my decision!!!:rockman:

Best chant of the night was the English version of Waltzing Matilda, goes like this:

I shagged Matiltda, I shagged Matilda,
I shagged Matilda, and so did my mate;
And she moaned and she groaned,
As she took it up the other hole;
I shagged Matilda, and so did my mate.

man.... i really wanted to see australia winning but wilkinson....i swear before the final someone should've broken his freaken leg so he can't kick!!!! TOO LATE FOR AUS....

Originally posted by KoreaJjang
i swear before the final someone should've broken his freaken leg so he can't kick!!!!

Sad.

If we weren't good enough to stop the rest of the English team from putting Wilkinson in a position to win the game we didn't deserve to win it.

He isn't the one that rolls the mauls 30 meters down field or makes the crucial break from the back of the ruck, he is just there to finish it. The rest of their team does all the work Wilkinson is just good enough to capitilise on it.

Reading the comments in the editorials in yesterdays papers made me ashamed to be an Aussie.

All of these ignorant morons writing in and still criticising England just show what little knowledge they have of sport. We call poms whingers, well listen to us, we're ten times as bad at the moment.

One day we might realise that if it weren't for the great team Wilkinson had around him he would not have even got that shot in the first place.

Originally posted by choppy
If we weren't good enough to stop the rest of the English team from putting Wilkinson in a position to win the game we didn't deserve to win it.

He isn't the one that rolls the mauls 30 meters down field or makes the crucial break from the back of the ruck, he is just there to finish it. The rest of their team does all the work Wilkinson is just good enough to capitilise on it.

Reading the comments in the editorials in yesterdays papers made me ashamed to be an Aussie.

All of these ignorant morons writing in and still criticising England just show what little knowledge they have of sport. We call poms whingers, well listen to us, we're ten times as bad at the moment.

One day we might realise that if it weren't for the great team Wilkinson had around him he would not have even got that shot in the first place.
hahaha Irony=You calling those people arrogant...

We had MORE shots at goal than England...More penalty chances...Flatley kicked 4/6 penalties, Wilkinson 4/4....

If its all about Englands forwards etc etc, than how good must the Aussie forwards be to give Flatley even MORE shots! :|

Wilkinson attempted more though (I think), and especially more drop goals, which came from forward pressure. The penalties were more from infringemens... meh, anyway, whaddya reckon about the Super 9 concept being aired at the moment...

Might as well call the Super 9 Concept the World Cup, Or they side that wins it atleast the best side in the world.

Well, just as in football, the world cup isn't designed to find the best team in the world. But if the Super 9 was a league format, then yes it would be a pointer to the best team. The trouble is though, it would weaken our domestic competition ye again. The All Blacks were always so strong precisely because our NPC domestic league was so competitive and strong. That was until the pressures of Super 12 were added to the calendar, and we have seen since then how Australia have caught up on the international scene as a result. If the Super 9 gets off the ground, sure it will be exciting, but would only further erode grassroots rugby in NZ.
So I am wary of it.

I agree. Rugby needs to be strengthened at hte club levl not international.

The gap here between Super 12's and club rugby is huge. We need to have the top players playing for their clubs more often.

The crowds for a sydney club game rarely get above 700 people because none of the big names are playing. With Super 12 and Internationals the top players are lucky to play 3 or 4 games a year for their club.

I dont know too much about this super 9 proposal but if it's going to take the elite players away from the local scene for even longer I'm not too keen on it.


John O'neill says in todays paper that he wants Rugby to be the dominant winter code in NSW and QLD but I cant see that happening with the local game at the state that it is. If you take the top guys away for even longer there is no chance at all that people will watch a game of club rugby when they can go to the rugby league and see all of the stars week in and week out.

700 people at a club game? Whoa we get atleast 10,000 here for every wellington game, and we are **** (H)

The super 9 is gonna be awesome. I hope this goes ahead, but that every two years its in the north hemisphere, and then next its in the south etc :)

Originally posted by Larry
700 people at a club game? Whoa we get atleast 10,000 here for every wellington game, and we are **** (H)

The super 9 is gonna be awesome. I hope this goes ahead, but that every two years its in the north hemisphere, and then next its in the south etc :)

Hey, Wellington made it to the final :p

But yeah, NPC usually gets crowds in the thousands, but sadly has fallen off somewhat since the Super 12 kicked off. But then it has always been the case that NZ has had the strongest domestic league.
I guess Super 9 would be ok if it replaces current international tours, but what about a team like Argentina, who are better than Italy and Scotland at least, and capable of upsetting the big teams on their day? Surely they would be miffed...
I guess it would also need to be thought out regarding where the games will be played, and the structure. I personally would like to see a league structure, where everyone plays each other once, then semis and a final... but that would be pretty hard going.

We have never had massive crowds at our club games. In the 80's and early 90's you might get 2 or 3 thousand but since the invention of super 12's no one goes because they dont get to see the Larkham's and Waughs play.

I Read a bit more about this super 9 thing. It would be good to see, but I reckon it would take a bit of the prestige from the world cup.

I dont know if I want to see Australia play England or New Zealand play France every year. I like the way it is now that you only get to see these teams every couple of years, it gets you more excited when they play.

Dunno, it would be good, but I think it will effect the local game too much.

Originally posted by choppy


I dont know if I want to see Australia play England or New Zealand play France every year. I like the way it is now that you only get to see these teams every couple of years, it gets you more excited when they play.


But they already do, in the trinations and the six nations, respectively.

The idea of a Super 9 is a joke because thats your WC right there. It gets stale when the same nations play each other every year, it really does. Who else recalls the days of three month tours when nations would play every provincial side in the country they were touring. That gave those small teams an incentive to beat the big boys, like the AB's. Thats when the Blacks were really feared. Now teams play one off tests and theres no real meaning behind them atches. It used to be that the AB's could go years without playing the home nations. In the 80's they had a seven year span in between tests gainst Wales, from 1980 to 87. And it took them six years to get to England, from 85 to 91.

The years of the real tours, with club teams taking on the All Blacks and everything.

Also, the Northern Nations have an advantage, they travel less of a distance really.
They only would have to come down to the South, 3 times a year while the Big 3from the South would have to travel alot more.

Choppy, when youre speaking of our club competition, it is worth pointing out, that we dont actually have a NATIONAL club comp. Our biggest is the Sydney Grade comp, and then we also have comps in other states, but we dont have anything national, like the Kiwis have the NPC...I believe a national comp is planned for 2005 or 2006 tho. :D

Originally posted by rhizome17
Wilkinson attempted more though (I think), and especially more drop goals, which came from forward pressure. The penalties were more from infringemens... meh, anyway, whaddya reckon about the Super 9 concept being aired at the moment...
As I said, Wilkinson didnt attempt more penalties (he kicked 4/4, Flatley 4/6), AND the reason he went for more drop goals was because he can get drop goals...Larkham cant kick a field goal for sh!t, apart from that one freaky 45m one against South Africa in 99 (ask anyone that knows, and Larkham isnt a very good drop kicker usually), and Flatey isnt nearly as good as Wilkinson at drop goals, and at inside centre is often too far from the action to kick them anyway....

But yeah, they say it didnt come down to kicking the stats show otherwise...We had more penalties in kickable range than England...

As for Super 9s, I dont like it....

Its too much travelling, and means making schedules even fuller...I also think that it shouldnt just be a matter of combining Tri-Nations with Six-Nations...Argentina would be unlucky not to get a game in any world wide sort of tournament, and I think Fiji and Samoa are BOTH better than Italy...

Originally posted by Alex
Choppy, when youre speaking of our club competition, it is worth pointing out, that we dont actually have a NATIONAL club comp. Our biggest is the Sydney Grade comp, and then we also have comps in other states, but we dont have anything national, like the Kiwis have the NPC...I believe a national comp is planned for 2005 or 2006 tho. :D

If we are going to get a national competiton a lot of the 48 million generated from the world cup is going to have to be thrown into it.

It would be fanatstic for this to happen and i really hope it does but the club structure needs funding. I played grade rugby for 5 years and it was so evident that there was no money there. I only played low to mid grades and had to pay over $150 a season to play. When the first grade teams came out the majority of the crowd was made up from the lower grade players and their girlfriends. No money is generated from gate takings and sponsorship is minimal.

I really like the concept of a national club competition but there is going to have to be alot of teams amalgamating and the top players are going to have to be available for the crowds to be interested.

AS i said a fair chunk of that money is going to be needed to make a national club comp successful and I dont think that a super 9 tourney is going to help. We need to bridge the gap between club and super 12.

Strong NZ Baabaas Team Named
05/12/2003 07:24 PM
Marc Hinton
The New Zealand Barbarians have named a strong squad packed full of players with plenty to prove to take on Clive Woodward's world champion champion England at a sold out Twickenham on December 20.

The Barbarians may not have had the luxury of picking any incumbent All Blacks for the hugely anticipated fixture, but they have still come up with a useful lineup with plenty of international experience and, especially, truckloads of motivation.

The club's officials last night named a squad of 21 (with one to be added) to make the trip to London and given the enormity of the task against the hardened pack of Martin Johnson and his men it looks to be a lineup with plenty of ability in the forward pack.

Unwanted All Black Taine Randell, now with Saracens, will lead the side and he will have nine other players with international experience among his forwards. Of particular interest will be how the likes of Tony Woodcock, Deacon Manu, Norm Maxwell, Simon Maling, Josh Blackie and Sam Harding perform against the crack English side.

They could all be considered fringe All Black contenders and will, no doubt, be keen to prove they have the ability to either take the step up in class, or in the case of some retrace those steps.

Among the backs the Barbarians will boast is the game's most potent attacking threat in Fijian flyer Rupeni Caucaunibuca, as well as the traditional international presence in the form of South African Jorrie Muller, Australian Graeme Bond and Samoan Tanner Vili.

The backline will also feature recent All Blacks Danny Lee, Keith Lowen and Nathan Mauger as well as traditional non-internationals in the form, of Rico Gear and Glen Jackson.

NZ Barbarians to play England: Forwards: Tony Woodcock (Nth Harbour), Andrew Hore (Taranaki), Filo Tiatia (NEC Toyota, Japan), Craig Dowd (Wasps), Deacon Manu (Waikato), Norm Maxwell (Canterbury), Simon Maling (Otago), Troy Flavell (Nth Harbour), Taine Randell (Saracens, captain), Xavier Rush (Auckland), Josh Blackie (Otago), Sam Harding (Otago).

Backs: Danny Lee (Otago), Glen Jackson (Bay of Plenty), Keith Lowen (Waikato), Nathan Mauger (Canterbury), Rico Gear (Nth Harbour), Rupeni Caucaunibuca (Northland), Jorrie Muller (Sth Africa), Graeme Bond (Sale Sharks), Tanner Vili (Samoa). A halfback to be added.

Coach: Bryan Williams. Manager: Rex Davy.

yeeeeeessssssssssss :rockman:

Former British Lions and Wales coach Graham Henry is the new coach of the All Blacks.
Henry was chosen in preference to ex-coach John Mitchell, who had had to re-apply for his post after New Zealand's poor World Cup.

Henry was the Wales coach from 1998 to 2002, with a record of 20 wins, one draw and 13 defeats.

He also coached the Lions on the tour of Australia in 2001, a series the Lions lost 2-1.

"In the board's view, Graham Henry is the most qualified person to coach the All Blacks and achieve the very high standards we expect from them," NZRU president Jock Hobbs said.

Henry has signed an initial two-year contract.

The All Blacks won 11 of 13 Test matches this year and clinched the Tri-Nations title for a second successive year, as well as reclaiming the Bledisloe Cup from Australia.

But despite being billed as pre-tournament favourites they lost their World Cup semi-final to Australia.

After the tournament, the New Zealand Rugby Union threw the job open, citing Mitchell's difficult relationship with the media and sponsors - rather than his record - as the main factors behind the decision.

Both candidates were interviewed for more than four hours earlier this week by a three-man panel comprising union chief executive Chris Moller, director Mike Eagle and vice president John Graham.

Well, time to resurrect this thread now the Super 12 warmup games are underway. Blues beat the Hurricanes 36-12 last night. Don't really care about the rest of the games... but good to see all of Howlett, Rokocoko and Caucaunibuca get on the scoresheet, and Carlos slotting the kicks...
but we are almost ready for the season to begin again, and I am quite excited to see who will come through and challenge for All Black places...

Also, honorable mention to Martin Johnson. I am sad he won't be coming out with the Lions this year, but I guess he has retired at the top.

Bastard.

What happened to the Chiefs?

Beaten 85-12 by the Waratahs....Were teams full strength?

Chiefs could be an interesting team this season, with the notable inclusions of Kelleher and former Wellington wing Lome Fa'atau

Both teams would have played their full squad of about 35 guys so you cant get a real indication out of trial matches.

Originally posted by Essendon BFC
What happened to the Chiefs?

Beaten 85-12 by the Waratahs....Were teams full strength?

Yeah, very big win for the Warratahs, but then the Chiefs are perrenial underachievers in the Super 12. They weren't at full strength, but still 85-12 is a big score...

The Warratahs play the Blues in their next warm up game, on Feb 11th at Aussie stadium. This will be an interesting encounter, although players prone to injury such as Caucau and Rokocoko could be rested... last night the Blues rested Muliaina, Braid, Ali Williams, Greg Feek, Kevin Mealamu and Sam Tuitupou, all of whom would be first team players normally.

Interestingly enough, the Reds beat the Brumbies also, which surprised me.

If teams are resting players we can't really get much indication on who is playing good and who isn't.

I don't know much about this sport but I support the brumbies and always hope they go well.

A few months have past and the feeling of being World Champions still feels the same as it id on that magical eve in Sydney.


:rockman: :rockman: :rockman:

Well it will be a big fall when you become the whipping boys for the All Blacks later this year.

I don't actually believe that, btw. :(

Six Nations is coming up. Let's see how we do without St Jonny!
:confused:

yeha, Blues beat the Reds 21-8 in Aussie... Caucau in awesome form and obviously our defence held against a team with 9 wallabies.

Originally posted by mufc_daddy
Six Nations is coming up. Let's see how we do without St Jonny!
:confused:

Well well well... full congratulations to the Irish for doing what the aussies couldn't...

Ireland winning may well throw the tournament open much wider than it had been...

But anyway, beating the world champs is always a big thing

IRELAND :rockman: (H) :hump: :D

Ireland have been improving steadily for a couple of years and it's good to see them beat the poms.

We'll have our chance for revenge at Suncorp this year.

Some good games in the super 12's this week. Crusaders v Queensland was a cracker last night and the Brumbies were very lucky to get home over the Sharks.

The Waratahs have had an oustanding start but it seems like we have seen them do this before. Lets hope they can go on with it this year.

I get a bad feeling that whoever plays Auckland next is in for a hiding. Underachivers so far but it's only early, I get the feeling that someones going to pay for it in the coming weeks. Very good win by the Chiefs regardless.

Why cant Sth African teams play in Australia. The Sharks are the only team that has ever won here and they are the only team that looks like they might win here.

Originally posted by choppy


I get a bad feeling that whoever plays Auckland next is in for a hiding. Underachivers so far but it's only early, I get the feeling that someones going to pay for it in the coming weeks. Very good win by the Chiefs regardless.


Well, I hope what you say comes true but...

many injuries were picked up in that game. Rupeni was already out, Rokocoko, Spencer, Rush, Feek and Devine all picked up injuries, and they are all first choice players.

We will be in the final four at the end of the round robin, but we need to cut down on some of the flair. Spencers pass against the Crusaders last week will end up being the try of the tournament unless something else happens, but we need to take the 3 points when they are on offer. We didn't do that against the chiefs, and it ended up costing us in the end.

Oh well, it is a tough life being brilliant. I still reckon on a Brumbies-Blues final though.

I still cant believe Spencer threw that pass. It was an amazing try but when you are leading you have to wonder whether it was worth the risk. They could very easily be 0-3 at the moment had that not come off. It worked tho and thats all that matters i guess.

Brumbies are ordinary with out Larkam so he is the key to whether they can make it to the end. The Sharks were the better team on the weekend and should have beaten them. Discipline let the Sharks down when it mattered.

I know it's early but the Waratahs have been very impressive so far. They seem to have more depth this year with Turanui and BUrke on the bench and they also have a good set of locks after poaching Harrison and Vickerman from the Brumbies. Rogers has been the standout player so far and i think if they can stay reasonably injury free they are a strong chance.

I didn't realise that Auckland suffered those injuries and i hope it doesn't disrupt them too much cos they're a great team to watch when on song.

Yeah the Warratahs are probably definite semi final contenders, and depending on who they meet there they may well make he final. I know it is early days but I am beginning to wonder if any other NZ teams will make the last four, given their start to the season. Crusaders are looking less than ordinary, Hurricanes and Highlanders are ordinary, and Chiefs are going to be found out soon. I think the Blues, Brumbies, Warratahs, and perhaps one of the South African teams will be last four contenders at the moment.

Many of the Wallabies seem to have regained some faith in themselves after a great world cup run following what was a pretty disasterous lead-up. Rogers and larkham especially.

Blues and Crusaders will come good. Way too much class in both teams.

I think half the problem for the Crusaders is they have too many playmakers. Three flyhalfs all trying to set the attack. None of the are really looking to run they are just trying create plays and Merhtans and Carter arent the strongest defenders. Kefu and Paulesea ( I think thats his name) made serious meters through their midfield on the weekend. Aaron Mauger is not an outside center. What happened to Justin Marshall he aint half the player he was 3 years ago. I'd rate him the number 3 halfback in NZ at the moment behind Devine and Kellehar. Even the young fella plaing for the Highlanders looks a lot sharper.

I think the Sharks are the only Sth African team capable of even getting close to the final 4. None of the othewr teams can play away from home. At least the Sharks are competetive on the road.

Originally posted by choppy
Aaron Mauger is not an outside center. What happened to Justin Marshall he aint half the player he was 3 years ago. I'd rate him the number 3 halfback in NZ at the moment behind Devine and Kellehar. Even the young fella plaing for the Highlanders looks a lot sharper.



Marshall has always been criticised for being too slow to pass the ball. He was in the AB squad as a favourite of Robbie Deans, but that was a mistake because Devine and Spencer are used to linking up together week in week out. When Marshall goes on a run, he always makes a mistake in terms of which way he passes, as we saw against England last year. Mauger is slipping behind Carter in terms of form, Carter realluy has come out of nowhere and is a great player, possibly a future replacement for Spencer in the AB's.

I agree about Carter. I think he's an outstanding player but i think he needs to do a bit of work on his defence if he is to stay at 2nd fly.Kefu made holes in him and I dont think Kefu's anything special.
Maybe at the moment he is more suited to the no. 13. I think Mauger would be more value closer to the ruck while Carter enjoys the extra space.
Yeh I think both our countries aren't really happy with their half at the moment. Whitaker is a much better half than Gregan now and I think Josh Valentine is progressing well.

Yeah I would say Gregan getting dropped as captain for the Brumbies is not a good sign, maybe one more season with the Wallabies and then kaput.... having said that, he really got stuck in when you guys beat us in the semi last year, so it will be a shame to lose that experience for the big games.

As for Marshall, I also think he only has this season left in him, Henry ,ay pick him for experience for this year but I expect Devine to come through finally. Kellehar has been number 2 for what seems like ages now, but I think he still has a tendency to go AWOL when the pressure is on. Devine on the other hand has good running skills as well as clearing the ball alot quicker than Marshall. And to think he could have played for the Wallabies :mrpimp:

Me and Alistair have tickets for tomorows game Hurricanes vs Cats, and we are gonna get in early on the Blues, Reds and Crusaders games that are in April :)

Gonna be good :)

RIGHT!!!

At last, the BLues turn in a performance they are known for. Spencer class for the entire game. It has taken bloody ages (hence my lack of posting :p ) but now it has been shown, hopefully they can get some consistency. Especially since it is South African teams that make up the remainder of the tournament for us, we stand a good show of making the playoffs - maybe :( .

Maybe they will tiem their run at the right time, whilst others (Warratahs) may have peaked early. Crusaders are looking good again, and Brumbies are still the best team in the competition so far. Come on BLUES!!!!

Could anyone recommend a decent British Rugby Union messageboard to me?

No, sorry, I don't know of any...

I was actually hoping this thread would go away and die (no offence) after the Blues were knocked out of the Super12... but hey, at least there are still 2 NZ teams considering their awful start to the season, and the Blues ALMOST made it despite an abominable mid-season set of results.

Ah well, All Black selection will be VERY interesting this year.

NZ 36
England 3

:o :o :o :o :o :o

NZ fully deserved, played fantastic rugby union all through out the game. England were Terrible. The scoreline truly reflects what happened this evening.

Congrats NZ (Y)

Originally posted by Larry
NZ 36
England 3

:o :o :o :o :o :o

I know!!!!!!

haha, what a game! Graham Henry is god. Every problem we have had in the last few years (lineouts, scrums, defence) seemed to evaporate tonight. England got ONE shot on goal, they just weren't allowed to play their game. Wilko would have made very little difference. And we took our penalties everytime. We matched their scrum. We WON off the opposition lineout. Only area of concern was defense up the middle, which can be exploited by Wallabies like Mortlock and Giteau.

ROll on next week :rockman:

Tana Umaga....the key figure ...the reason why New Zealand are not World Cup winners !

Originally posted by rhizome17


We matched their scrum. We WON off the opposition lineout. Only area of concern was defense up the middle, which can be exploited by Wallabies like Mortlock and Giteau.


Yep the All Balck forwards certainly dominated and I did enjoy watching it. Not too often i go for New Zealand but I sure did this time and the result made it even more satisfying.

We all new that the AB backline would dominate but it wsa definately the pack that set this win up. Mcgaw constantly won the breakdown ball, the locks stole many linouts and the tight 5 kept going forward.

Daniel Carter. Sorry not a fan. I know he can do some flash stuff in attack but he has no mongrel in defence. I wouldn't direct Giteau and Mortlock at him, I would have the big guys like Samo, Lyons and Tuquiri running at him all day. Having these guys run at him will force Umaga come in to help which will create an overlap outwide. No use running at Spencer because the breakaways will get their to help but going that one man wider creates a bit more room.

Apart from that I couldn't see any real weakness. Everyone did their role and they proceeded to give the poms a hammering.

Wel we start our capmaign today.Playing a Scotland team who have been bloody terrible so far on this tour. We usually do struggle with our first few tests so a comfortable win here will be good enough.

Sth Africa had a win against Ireland. Couldn't really care about this one but i suppose that it is good when the Southern Hemisphere teams beat the Northerners.

Originally posted by choppy

Daniel Carter. Sorry not a fan. I know he can do some flash stuff in attack but he has no mongrel in defence. I wouldn't direct Giteau and Mortlock at him, I would have the big guys like Samo, Lyons and Tuquiri running at him all day. Having these guys run at him will force Umaga come in to help which will create an overlap outwide. No use running at Spencer because the breakaways will get their to help but going that one man wider creates a bit more room.


I can't wait to see Stephen Jones column in the Times. :p

But what Henry does with Carter will be interesting. Carter is there primarily for his boot at this point in time, and if Mehrts was selected I doubt Carter would be there. Sam Tuitupou can always be called on to replace Carter if defenseive play demands, and Mauger is still in the frame. Despite England winning the World Cup, I still think the best team in the world mantle is a fight between the AB's and the Wallabies.

Originally posted by choppy
Sth Africa had a win against Ireland. Couldn't really care about this one but i suppose that it is good when the Southern Hemisphere teams beat the Northerners.

I care(H) better luck to England next time:(

Well we beat Scotland by 20. Much different Scotland team than we have seen in the lead ups. Usual start by the Wallabies, as they struggled thru the 1st half like they seem to do in the first test every year. Not a real good game to get an indication on the positions. I would like to see Gerard replace Sailor next week although Wendell did no wrong today. Gerard had an outstanding super 12 and deserves a go.

WE still weren't as impressive as New Zealand for the 1st test of the season but we never are. They always come out of the blocks quicker than us.

how did Samo play?

Didnt really get given the chances he got during the Super 12. He was strong in the linouts and general play but he didn't get much space to run with the ball. Made some good hits in defence.

Solid if not spectacular

Another All Black whooping of England 36 - 12. England did not score a try in the two tests against New Zealand....normalcy has been restored after that World Cup fiasco !

Well, it was a shame the sending off came when it did, as England were asserting themselves and putting the AB's under pressure. I still think we would have won in the end as we were fitter and more tactically aware, England looked tired. Should be a good fight against the Wallabies (literally, a fight).

Ben Cohen was particularly outstanding, he was committed throughout and deserves more from his teammates. But if the Wallabies are going to beat England, they need to change their tactics from te WC final and get involved up front. Get George Smith to exchange a few knocks early on, and challenge at scrum and lineout time - England have been used to dominance in those areas and win their games from there. THe AB's took them on in those areas, knowing that dominance there would let the backline do their stuff - just look at the try from Rokocoko that came from winning the ball off the back of the lineout. THat was one of the most cleanly executed moves I have seen from a team in a long time, and if anyone has seen the aerial view they will surely agree.

One thing that is still buggin me - JUSTIN ******* MARSHALL. Too slow to pass, mishandles the ball too much, and you could see Xavier Rush beginning to take over clearing duties at the back of the scrum. Please get well soon, Steve Devine. He is a much cleaner distributor of the ball.

Was good to see Mehrtens make a cameo, he was effective when he came on. Still not sure we have the team to beat the Wallabies, but we are on the right road. If this team had been at the world cup, I suspect the outcome would have been different.

But most of all, I think Henry's biggest influence so far is the defence - England did not score a try in two games, something reminiscent of the Blues and Auckland when Henry was in charge - a stingy defence.

I didn't see the Wallaby game on the weekend as I chose to go to the Rugby League and watch Souths beat my beloved Sea Eagles. (Wasn't that a studip thing to do) But from what I understand we were not real impressive.

I did see the All Black match and I didn't think that England were too bad. The scoreline indicated a blow out but I thought England were quite impressive with 14 men. I agree that our forwards will have to step up this week to beat them but I think they have been playing quite well. I guess thats more credit to the AB's for still scoring 36 points. Rockocoko is just scary at the moment. Its a pity that him and Tuquiri play on opposite sides cos that would be an epic clash.

Our problem still seems to be lack of cohesion in the backs. Our backline is good enough to score points on any one but they dont seem to be finishing as well as they should. GTregan is still too slow with his delivery. His two steps back he takes before he passes is allowing the defence to get in Larkhams face and this is rushing the moves a bit.

I think we will beat them, but not by much.

Well wev've lost a few games in a row. Wilkinson is to us what Zidane is to the French team.

We proved we needed him.

Still we're world champions, thats all that matters.

Hmmmmmm hmmmmm hmmmm.

(H)

Yeh your side was as good as your soccer team against Portugual, hmmm hmmm hmmmmm

..yeh and choppy, were was Australia in world cup 2002 ?

Australia was just below Indonesia and to the left of New Zealand. Where we usually are.


We go well enough at too many sports already. We don't need to win that as well.:)

It kills ur country that u cant even qualify for it though!

I wouldn't say it kills us but it certainly dissapoints us. If soccer wasn't the number 4 football code in Australia we would probably care more.

Anyway this is a rugby thread and we're talking about how we wooped your ass last week. Talk all about the World Cup all you want but the most recent result is the one that counts. At least France only lose by a couple without Zidane.

Martin Johnson and Neil Back were worth more to that team than Wilkinson.

Originally posted by choppy


Martin Johnson and Neil Back were worth more to that team than Wilkinson.

Agreed. Looking forward to the trinations now - should be an interesting series, with South Africa looking a lot better than they have in years, and the Wallabies and AB's coming off the back of wins against England. THe last game for both teams was not that great (Argentina for AB's, PI's for Aussie) but that is to be expected after the intensity of playing England.

May the best team win. :)

I'm intersted to see how you guys go this weekend against the Pacific Islanders. We may have won the game but they beat the hell out of us in the process.

It should be a great Tri Nations. All 3 teams are playing well. We finally get to see Chris Whitakker get some starting time as it looks like Gregan is out for a while. Terrible tackle that got him. Roff is also out and Mortlock and Rathbone are a bit bruised and battere after the game.

I wasn't expecting much from the Argentina and Pacific Islander games. Both teams just keep coming at you and dont give you a chance to get any rythme. Your never going to get a fluent performance against them.

Well, I don't know what to make of the game against the PI's. It was a very open and entertaining game, although 2 of the PI tries were very questionable. I had to laugh at the commentators united praise of Justin Marshall. Sure he made a few good runs, but then so did Kelleher when he came on, indicating it was less marshall and more the fact that gaps were appearing in the PI line. Marshall also gave away a try to the PI's, and his selfishness cost us a try. Oh well. I would also have liked to see Luaki (sp.?) in black, but that can always come later. I suspect the PI team can only go from strength to strength.
I was also pleased to see Muliaina back at fullback (Evans is still a bit raw and naive) and I have always been a fan of Rico Gear. And Henry was obviously mindful of the Trinations, taking some players off very early on. I was also pleased to see that when the team was carrying out a set move, it came off, like the first and last tries of the game.

Will be good to see Whittaker and Samo and Rathbone on the field this weekend. My feeling is that the Wallabies will just win this game, I don't feel so confident about the AB's when McCaw is not playing, and the AB team is stil not quite there as a cohesive unit... I doubt we will see the best of the AB's until the second half of this campaign.

Overall, I think this will be the most open Trinations we have seen for a few seasons. All three have had excellent buildups, and there is a large number of new players in all three teams as well.

Good luck :D

Should be an awesome tri nations. I think we are playing better than we usually do at this time of year and for once we have had a pretty decent lead up against Scotland and the PI's.

Gregan has been copping a lot of **** over the last few years from everyone including myself and it will be intersting to see if we a reproven correct in our criticism or if we will be forced to eat humble pie. I think Whittaker will do a better job but he hasn't had much starting experience for the Wallabies, but he delivers week in week out at Super 12 level and i think he can handle the role admirably.

BIg call naming Nathan Sharpe as skipper. THey were saying that he was being groomed for the job but I think he has been handed it a bit early. UPon saying that there isn't much capataincy material in the side. This was illustrated in the world cup when Whitakker was given the duty against Romania when he had only started in a hand ful of games for the Wallabies.

I really enjoyed the PI v AB game last week. They had a lot better conditions than we did against them and it provided some good running rugby. I hope they stick with the PI concept cos i would really like to see them go against some of the Northern teams. I dont think they would know what had hit them.

I cant pick who will win this years Tri Nations. It will be intersting to see how South Africa go against PI this week. If they can win convingly i think they are as goos a chance as both of us. THey have been strong against Wales and Ireland and they seem to be playing a lot more of an expansive game this season.

I'll be thew first to admint that i think that Eddie JOnes sounded like a whinging little kid after the PI game but I dont think that Justin Marshall should be calling other people whingers. He is the vice president of the club after George GRegan.

Originally posted by choppy


I'll be thew first to admint that i think that Eddie JOnes sounded like a whinging little kid after the PI game but I dont think that Justin Marshall should be calling other people whingers. He is the vice president of the club after George GRegan.

Marshall just needs to shut the hell up, something he hasn't learnt yet. He also needs to learn to play to the whistle, as evidenced against PI and in countless other games he will look at the ref to do something rather than play on. That behaviour gifted the PI's a try last week. And yes conditions were good for running rugby, which made me pull my hair out at the AB tactics of kicking the ball downfield and letting the PI eam run at them (although with Henry you never know, this could have been defensive practice to see how the team defends against the Wallaby backs running at them).

Who would you pick as Wallaby captain? I was initially surprised at Umaga bwing chosen as AB captain, given his position on the field, but he has alot of respect for other players, is experienced and one of the older players now. Word has it there was a split in the AB camp at the WC last year, not between players but between players and Mitchell. Umaga was 'mediator' between the coach and the group of players, although noone is sure whether the group was the maori players or the Auckland players.

I too hope to see the PI concept continue to grow - the fact is, everytime they play it is virtually a trial for the Ab team :) and if they can tighten up set piece and forward play they will be a challenge even for the England team. Would love to see PI vs. France some day....

Regarding the Trinations, I think that all three teams are capable of winning on their home grounds... so it could well come down to bonus points and/ or points differential. I also hope to see some good forward play this year, to shut up that whining Stephen Jones in The Times.

One night to go...

Ok, long time no post... 6 Nations time...

Wales :Bow: Just goes to show how competitive the tournament will be this year, I mean France took until the last minute to get past Scotland :|

THe flipside is, whatever the maeup of the Lions team that comes to NZ later this year, it is going to be VERY strong. Ireland and England, and even Wales are cpable of winning the 6 nations this year, especially given Wales have 2 home games against England (already won) and France.