United close on Dutchman as Barca eye Overmars
By Ken Lawrence

EXCLUSIVE: Manchester United have signed PSV's Dutch international striker Ruud Van Nistelrooy for around £17million.

The day before they were dumped out of the Champions League by Real Madrid, chairman Martin Edwards and financial director David Gill flew to Eindhoven and sealed the British record transfer in a matter of hours.

PSV chairman Harry van Raij would only say yesterday: 'There has been unofficial contact with Manchester United over this and there is something going on - but I just cannot say any more at this time.'

Although the capture of £17m-rated Tottenham and England defender Sol Campbell will be United's prime concern this summer, signing Van Nistelrooy still represents a major coup for Sir Alex Ferguson.

In a Dutch newspaper inter-view yesterday, the United boss said: 'I will only know in two weeks' time which players will be leaving us and, as a result, what type of player we need to bring in.'

But Van Nistelrooy's arrival will leave question marks over the present crop of Old Trafford strikers, with Andy Cole, 29, the most under-pressure given his age and the fact that, like the Dutchman, he is an out-and-out centre forward.

Not even the fact that he has outscored Dwight Yorke this season could save Cole from being substituted in United's time of need against Real Madrid on Wednesday night.

Ferguson's wanted list will certainly include Campbell to play alongside Jaap Stam, the last player Manchester United managed to tempt away from PSV, who has looked increasingly distracted by the poor defending around him.

A goalkeeper is also certain to be plucked from the extensive list of those linked with United for most of the season.

Although Denis Irwin's future remains at United, it is increasingly clear that Ferguson wants to sign a younger, top-class left back.

Elsewhere, the fall-out from a week of tumultuous Champions League action looked like having a major impact on Arsenal as it emerged that Rivaldo was increasingly likely to move to Lazio this summer.

The Brazil striker remains opposed to the tactical vision of Barcelona manager Louis Van Gaal,despite his role in the Catalan club's astonishing 5-1 defeat of Chelsea on Tuesday and wants to play in Italy.

With Lazio willing to offer a record package for the world player of the year, which would include Alen Boksic and Marcelo Salas, the deal is thought increasingly certain - a development which would spark a firm offer for Marc Overmars from the Spanish champions.

The Dutch winger has been linked for months with the notion that he will be leaving Arsenal in the summer to find both a new challenge at the Camp Nou as well as similarly astronomical wages as those earned there by his international team-mate Patrick Kluivert.

The centre forward is paid almost £70,000 a week after tax - a sum which dwarfs even Roy Keane's £52,000-a-week contract at Old Trafford and which cannot fail to attract Overmars.

Barcelona have said they will not be drawn into negotiations over a new contract for Rivaldo until the end of this season at the earliest, a stance backed by the player's agent Josep Minguella on Thursday.

Minguella told Catalan TV station Canal 33: 'Rivaldo would be happy to stay on at Barcelona. Now is not the time to talk about contracts. We don't want this to affect the team.'

He added: 'I would never say a transfer is impossible, football being the way it is today. 'If an offer came in for $50m, it would be up to Barcelona to decide.'


WHAT THE HECK IS GOING ON???

Where did u get the story from? I've heard rumours but no concrete proof...

That was reported on Soccernet. I think it is a risky transfer(25 million dollars?) for a player who has not proven himself at a high level yet. I think Wenger was right, he said he would not be going after him once the price reached 20 million.

Yes ...... it was from Soccernet ..... gripes ..... I guess Sir Alex figured out that Cole is not exactly a premier striker. Oh well ..... better late than never.

17 million for RVN?!?!!

NOoooooooooooooooooooooo,
"Alex....Fergie mate, I was just kidding, no really Cole is wicked, you don't need this Ruud fella - he's a Ruud-boy, you don't need him..."

So that means Cole is available, I hear Stockport County are very interested http://www.soccergaming.com/ubb/smile.gif

17 million, not even 24 hrs after the loss - that could be the very defintion of a panic buy - but a good one, he's a quality striker - I've seen many highlights of him playing for PSV and he's great he's got it all - size, strength, finishing - not that fast though - an early Berkamp IMO (but not as good, well not yet) - but much better than the mediocrity they have there, except Solskjaer who's brilliant and either has no ego, no self-esteem, or likes sitting on the bench.... http://www.soccergaming.com/ubb/smile.gif

No hoax.I also heard it was nearer £18.5 million...

Are you people for real? Cole is not a top-class striker! That is the most laughable statement I have ever read on this forum, and that's saying a lot given what obtains here. I am not going to even list the demerits of that idiotic statement. Van who? Van who I say again. That's a joke! Sols is the only top class striker at Man Utd. I can only conclude that these are tongue in cheek statements. If one is to follow the logic, some of you are saying that Man Utd has an awful defence, mediorce strikers, and a decent midfield; yet they'll win the league by more than a dozen points. Do you understand how foolish that sounds? I rate Cole to be the best striker in England. Do not be massaged by the comments of Tommy Smith, etc, who bemoan the amount of chances he needs to score. I have never heard a manager in my life complain that my striker creates so many chances and only scores one or two. Lorrrrrrrdd! The guy averages close to a goal every two games over the last 5 years. As for Yorke, there are reasons why he plays ahead of Sols. Do I have to spell them out! He scores! He enables a smoother transition from midfield to attack! Annnnnnnnnd! They win when those two are upfront! If Cole is being sold I guarantee there is going to be a haste and rush to sign him. And , just to add more fuel to this fire of idiotic criticsm, Sols is not even in the top 12 in England. Arsenal has 4 better than he. Chelsea has two. Man Utd has two. Liverpool has three. West Ham has two. Etc, etc. Why am I EVEN DEBATING THIS, I am a Chelsea and Arsenal fan. Who gives a damn what MAN UTD DOES!

STUPID MAN UTD.

van nistelrooy is good at a low level, and he needs Nilis for good passes. most of his goals were simple one on one with the keeper or penalties.

He isn't as good everybody thinks he is

antithesis,
re: Cole and Yorke,
That's ok, you're entitled to your own opinion......even if it's wrong

http://www.soccergaming.com/ubb/wink.gif

(just joking, just joking)

There will be a line-up for sure, Leciester, Derby etc - but Cole IS NOT the best striker in the premiership, "the chances he creates" - are you mistaking him for Emile Heskey?
"When they win those two are upfront" - those two were upfront against real and they lost, in last years FA Cup final those two were upfront, but they didn't do anything so Ferguson had to bring on Sheringham to win the game, and lets not forget the ECL final where they disapeared again, so Solskjaer and Sheringham had come on and STEAL the trophy......

As for them being in the lead - like I said in other posts - when they played Liverpool twice this season, the first time Carragher scored two own goals and Liverpool outshot them 24-6, when they played Arsenal at Old Trafford the Gunners only had Henry upfront, and no berkamp, kanu, suker, viera, or adams, and when they played Chelsea (who had everyone fit) they lost 5-0. And let's not forget what a great advantage that holiday in Rio was - they pulled out of the FA Cup, went to Rio to 'conquer the world', got their sorry @sses kicked, played two games with the first team (Beckham didn't play in the second), put out a skelleton squad for the third (Ronnie Walwork anyone) and spent the next week on a beach - this is while Viera is being suspended for 6 games for getting angry at racist comments (fat bastard Ruddock), while half of the Liverpool squad is injured, and everyone else playing.......no I'm not saying they're useless - they're an excellent team, and they deserve to win the league, but I think if Arsenal had of had all their players available and didn't have that stupid Viera suspension and the long term Berkamp and Overmars injuries they would have been much closer. Look at Liverpool, since the begining of October (once Henchoz and Hamman came to full fitness) we've had more points than United - and that's without Owen, Fowler, Heggem and Redknapp for long periods....

IMO Ruud will do this business for United, but your statement that Cole is the best striker in England is something I can only see glory hunter United fans and Skysports Commentators (Martin 'I love United' Tyler) nodding in agreement..

Jesus. A Liverpool fan! I use the term "create", creatively; as in making one self available to score or to assist another to score. I cannot believe you mentioned Heskey in your retort. Heskey! As they say in Trinidad and Tobago, "who dat"? If Cole is not the best striker in England, then who? I have no response to Liverpool's sucess, they remind me of an average stayer catching the stragglers in a 7 furlong. But seriously, I have watched that guy play numerous times and these are the facts: shoots well with both feet
no one moves smarter off the ball
has adequate dribbling skills
decent ability in the air
holds up the ball well (only Shearer and Kanu are better)
has the ability to score spectacularly
works on either flank
excellently quick (only Owen and Henry ARE FASTER)
he scores goals (unlike Heskey, etal)
doesn't need excuses for not scoring( as Heskey [I create chances for other players as well]
he is a team player( doesn't mind being subsituted or benched)
doesn't get injured

There's more,but why bore you. And do not make excuses for teams with injuries or suspensions. These aren't the minnows, all those teams ought to have appropriate replacements. It's easy for Liverpool to suffer injuries upfront though, because their forwards don't score,haha. Just kidding mate! Who's the leading scorer on that team anyway? Look, no more replies for me on this subject, because at the end of the day I do not want Man Utd winning another title for the next decade.
Who's your player of the year? All four categories (gk, str, mid, def.) I am initerested in that now you have seen the folly of your argument,lol.

[This message has been edited by antithesis (edited 04-21-2000).]

antithesis,
I'm not sure when you're being sarcastic, making fun or me, or being serious....
http://www.soccergaming.com/ubb/smile.gif

Obviously, we are watching a different premier league.....and insult Heskey all you want, but he's only 22 and he'll be creating goals for Fowler and Owen for years to come and years after everyone forgets who Andy Cole was..."who dat?" Yeah, people said the same bloody thing when Owen and Fowler showed up....just because Cole plays for United who are a famous team doesn't mean he's automatically good....

Fowler, Owen, Yorke, Solskjaer, Heskey, Phillips, Shearer, Kanu, Henry, Berkamp, and DiCanio are all better forwards than Cole.
Team player - yes I loved his 'Golden Boy' comments for England, and how his agent was upset that his 'non-selection for England is hurting his chance of further sponsorship deals'. Team player - hasn't talked to Sheringham in two years. Insulted half of the England team in his autobiography. And worst of all, he's the most horrible rapper I have ever heard http://www.soccergaming.com/ubb/smile.gif

"Scores spectacular goals" - has even more spectacular misses.

He is so unbelievable overrated - its all the media's doing and you've fallen into it, if Owen played for United, the media and United fans hail him as the second coming of Jesus Christ.

Liverpool's success - yes you've been very critical of it, it's not enough that we win, that we have the best defense in the EPL, that Houllier has rebuilt the team in just one year, that we beat Arsenal (u haven't scored on us in two years) and Leeds twice - no, we have to re-incarnate King Kenny, Kennedy, Souness, Barnes, Beardsley and Rush to play for us as well- it's that kind of unrealistic thinking that F&*ked us over the past 8 years before Houllier came - we have youth; Hyypia, Henchoz, Westerveld, Fowler, Owen, Gerrard, Carragher, Matteo, Thompson, Heskey ALL UNDER 25 years old they'll all improve with experience - you've made it sound (in previous posts) that we play like Wimbledon - DID U SEE BOTH GAMES VS LEEDS? Yes, we played defensively against Arsenal AND IT F&(KING WORKED DIDN'T IT??? Holy Sh!t, we can't get any ****ing praise can we, no, sorry buddy, we're sh!t, we suck, all our players suck we're so cr@p, we need a guy like andy cole...yes, listen to the media...same media that said Liverpool would finish 11th, and who asked 'Who's this Hyypia guy - ha ha, what a joke?" and now put him as one of the three candidates for player of the year....
We're not better than Arsenal, we're not better than Man U, we're not better than the OAP's at Chelsea, but we're better than Leeds, and we're young and we're going to get better....watch out next season...

Ok, (deep breath), ok, sorry, I just get a little upset on this topic - but whatever, you have your opinion, I have mine.

Yorke is better

antithesis, sorry I lost my cool, I just got a bit worked up, didn't mean to blow up like that. Sorry.

Neutral:
You're underrating Cole, he is damn good and many teams would like to have him not just Leicester I bet. Also take into consideration injuries(re:Fowler, Owen) when we speak about who is great, I mean Ronaldo might be great on his day but so what if he only playes 5 games in a year?

Also Anti, Arsenal have 4 better than Solskjaer, no way mate, now you are showing your true colors with that statement!

Cole may not be the best striker in the world, but 20+ goals in a season speak for themselves... (and hey, they won the freaking treble, what do you want from them!?)

Anyway, I post my opinions as well as you do, but let's not forget that we all (probably) aren't as incredible managers as Fergie is...He does know what he's doing...

Van Nistelrooy? I thought this was a joke at first. "Yeah, hey, let's set another record an get ANOTHER Best-striker-in-Europe...SOmeone to chat with Ole.."

I, for one, don't get it - if there's one trouble Manchester doesn't have - it's first class strikers. How about getting a normal partner for Stam, other than the pathetic Berg (and Silvestre's a joke), or how about a normal Keeper? Bosnich's great, but he keeps getting injured, and he has to talk to his defence sometime...

But hey, like I said - I got faith in Fergie to keep us running. As long as he keeps Keano!

I am a DUTCHMEN and I know who ruud v. Nistelrooy is.
He is not a good player, he's more like the Italians.
The English football is too difficult for him,it's not a "worker".
And I think he doesn't belong in the Premier League.
His value is 65 million "gulden" = about 30 million dollars.
And that for a guy who even can't score against Brazil for a open goal.
(he wanted to do a back heel, but missed)
Worthless!!!

Nistelroi is from Netherlands and Solskjaer is norwegian and their languages aren't the same.(just tought i'd let you know)
And one thing if you don't think Nistelroij is good you just don't know anything about football. If the Netherlands league is so underrated for you what can you tell me about the Ukrainian. Shevchenko is now the best in Italy. Holland have always created great players and believe me this time next year he'll be the leading scorer in England.
(btw Man U will be champs for many years to come and i don't have to be Nostradamus to tell you.{just like Rangers in Scotland}
And inferno the fact that you're a Dutchman doesn't mean you're right. You can still not know anything about football.


[This message has been edited by Garret (edited 04-21-2000).]

If Cole is so good ... why did Sir Alexz get Ruud??? He held a press conference today and made the deal official. Apparently he is getting 40,000 pounds a week.

"I rate Cole to be the best striker in England." .... NOW THAT IS FUNNY!!

"shoots well with both feet
no one moves smarter off the ball
has adequate dribbling skills
decent ability in the air
holds up the ball well (only Shearer and Kanu are better)
has the ability to score spectacularly
works on either flank
excellently quick (only Owen and Henry ARE FASTER)
he scores goals (unlike Heskey, etal)
doesn't need excuses for not scoring( as Heskey [I create chances for other players as well]
he is a team player( doesn't mind being subsituted or benched)
doesn't get injured"

Did he do any of this: v Real?? he did what in the World Club?? v Arsenal? v Liverpool? In last years' ECL final???

HE is not a "world class striker" .... when you have a midfield like Giggs, Scholes, Keane and Beckham supplying you with kick-@$$ passes, anyone can look good. Put him on a team with no midfield .... and see how he does. You want a world class striker .... go see Shevchenko or BatiGOL or Kanu or Henry or Fowler or Ronaldo or Romario .... not Cole. He is good .... but not as good as everyone builds him up to be. Just because someone plays for a world class team, does not mean that they are a world class player.

I agree with everything Woody said regarding Cole.

Sella, I think you will be pleasantly surprised when RVN bangs in 30 goals next year - but if United don't fix that defense they'll be in a fight for the title - don't think that Liverpool, Arsenal, Leeds and Chelsea will just sit on their hands and not dip into the transfer market as well...

Okay mates, I said I would not be defending my position anymore and am sticking to it. Don,t apologise Neutral, I admire anyone who defends a position with logic, so good on ya. But, I am confused that you don't know when I am being sarcastic with a moniker as yours. If you are "neutral", I am Kenny Dalglish. To my friend who thought I am biased to Arsenal, you are absolutely correct, but, is Sols better than Bergkamp, or Henry, or Suker, or Kanu? I think I am not as far-off as you thought. Neutral, you are probabaly right that VN is going to score loads of goals. One more thing though, don't have me defending Man Utd.. If they cannot beat Real that's their problem, but do not use one game to rate anything or anyone. Real can't even place in the top three of their domestic league. What does that say? The Champions League was never structured to determine the best team in Europe! Heck, the best playing team is probably Juventus or Leverkusen; and they were embarassed in this years competitions.

YES IT IS TRUE THAT MANUTD HAVE BOUGHT VAN NISTELROOY FOR 19M POUNDS!
HE IS DUE FOR A MEDICAL NEXT WEEK(THE WEEK OF
APRIL 24th)
I DONT KNOW WHERE ALEX WOULD PUT HIM BECAUSE THEY GOT 5(!!!!)GOOD STRIKERS THEN.....
I'M A MANUTD FAN AND THE ONLY WAY IS TO TRUST ALEX IN WHICH PLAYERS HE BUYS.
HE ALWAYS GETS IT RIGHT(EXEPY TAIBI)BUT I MIGHT TAKE TIME TO SETTLE IN AT MANUTD LIKE JAAP STAM DID!
SO MANUTD FANS JUST LEAVE IT OVER TO ALEX AND HOPE THAT HE CAN BRING US BETTER THINGS NEXT SEASON..

(AHHH....LOVELY WORDS OF WISDOM..HAHA)

Sorry for joining this discussion so late on.
And on the Ruud subject, I think it was a bad move. Man utd has scored a ton of goals in both Europe and EPL, but their defence sucks big time. Now sure, man utd has big money, enough to go buy a new defence and keeper, but at what cost to the club now and in the future ?
Antithesis - I love your rating of Cole as the best striker in England. Definitely tong in cheek ! Phillips IS the best striker in the premiership, his goal tally proves that. And compare his team to that of man utd, and I'd give Phillips even more credit. And Solsjkaer is man utd's best attacker. Why ? Cause he can score goals and win games when his team is not on top, something neither yorke or cole can do. They can't swing games with their skills, they can seal victory though when man utd dominate.
Oh yeah, and I've never heard of a Chelsea AND Arsenal fan. And I don't think arsenal has 4 better than solsjkaer, and that's coming from a Arsenal supporter.

Ferry TUDU - For man utd's sake I hope you're wrong, cause your description sounds a lot like Anelka when he left Arsenal and we all know what a 'success' he's been at Real.

Neutral - I think we watch the same premier league( Or should I say I agree with your statements ), BUT " We're not better than Arsenal " ?? Come on, you beat us twice, we don't score a single goal and you think we're better than Liverpool ? You guys have had our number for the past three years, but hopefully we'll get it back next year. And credit given where credit is due, Liverpool have been great this year, Houllier has worked some magic there. And much like Wenger he's bought a few 'no name' europeans and turned them into a smashing team.

Sella- "..Bosnich's great.." BUT, between him and Stam someone's gotta organise the defence and that is not happening. SO who would you get rid of ? Man utd was spoilt with Schmeichel, especially since he was constantly keeping his defence awake. Bosnich seems to rather join the defensive sleep than keep them awake.

Woody - Exactly ! Well said

And lastly, Antithesis - Is he better than Bergie ? He's different, one can't compare the two. Is he better than Henry ? YES, Although Henry has been vital in our success this year, much like Anelka he has poor ball control at times and squanders very good opportunities too often. Is he better than Suker ? Yes, Suker is good, but not consistently, and if only he could use his right foot. Is he better than Kanu ? Lord NO, for my money nobody is better than Kanu, BUT Solsjkaer is a goal poacher, much like wrighty once was, and Solsjkaer can create too.
Would you say Scholes is better than Keane ? Well, one can't cause if Keane had fill Scholes's role then he wouldn't be as good, same goes for Scholes filling Keane's role. So in comparing Solsjkaer compare him to similar players. In my OPINION, Solsjkaer is better than Cole.

Well i just couldnt resist getting involved in this!!!

I think that Cole is good......neutral you make him seem like a 3rd division player....but he is certainly not United's best striker and is not world class by any means. And definetely not hte best striker in England....i think this season that title belongs to Phillips
The guy is in a sub-standard team but manages to get on the score sheet almost every week and alot of his goals are created by himself...him and quinn form a great partnership
Also i think Kanu is one of the best strikers in england and with him, bergkamp and henry they could form a good parternship next season.
henry is defitnetely growing in confidence every week....just take a a look at his goal against Lens.
The team in England (serious contenders) that are missing a top class striker are......yes sadly Leeds.
Bridges, Smith and Huckerby are all young and in the meanwhile we need someone to bang in the goals, much like Jimmy...(come back!!)
but he didnt fit into O'Learys plans and he left.
Kewell can play up front but he is best running at defenders, so i think he best roaming aroung behind the strikers. Wilcox is doing great on the left and should be left there.
Overall i think next season will be Man U's toughest challenge thus far.....

It's a pity when intelligent people ignore the obvious. I said I was not going to defend my selection of Cole and I am not......but......I am going to take issue with a few things said. I can support whomever I want because I am not in Britain and I am not tethered by any geographic, cultural or historic loyalties. Therefore I can support Chelsea and Arsenal if I choose. Is Suker better than Sols? Have you a clue? Are you aware of that mans goal scoring record as an International and as a club player, and don't use this one footedness as a negative. There are only two or three well known players who are genuine two footed players. And why can't you compare Bergkamp to Sols, why? The question was who is the better striker, meaning a player who forages the final third of a football field and whose main purpose is to create and score goals. That's the criteria! Don't confuse the issue about Dennis being a more sophisticated player who plays behind the main strikers, etc., that argument is sophistry at it's worst. So that's two! On to Henry, he's a toughie to defend, save when you realise he led France in scoring at the World Cup, has been a French league leading goal-scorer, has been used as a winger in the last year until he came to England and.......Voila!, talent unveiled. The man has more dribbling skills, speed, flair, and shot power, than Sols. I'll accede that Sols is a better header of the ball. The bottomline with Sols is that he cannot force himself into the starting eleven against Andy Cole and Yorke and laughably, sometimes Sheringham. Phillips! Does anyone think he has been the best striker in England this year? Sunderland are a weak team? Noone thought that when they were in the top three for one third of the season. Remember when Sols was on the trading block for two or three million, the only teams interested were Tottenham and Watford. Maybe you don't get it, but it seems 94% of the premiership do. Don't get me wrong though, I think the guy is talented, but like it or not he's not better than Yorke or Cole. His own manager thinks so or he would have been playing! And Yes, I am, finally going to admit that I have been wrong and that Liverpool deserve to be where they are.

Solkjaer is very underated and i believe he is better than the rest of the Man U strikers....

But Bergkamp, Kanu, Henry are all better than him...

And to add to the point of Sukurs one footdetness as being a bad point i agree with the point made before that there are only a few players in the world who can genuionly use both feet..
Sukurs left foot is so good that why would he try and use it as much as possible???

Antithesis - Firstly, nobody said Sunderland are a weak team( kewell did say sub-standard, which I think is fair, they've got three or so great players, the rest are really plain and ordinary, comparable with teams like Southampton, Sheff Wed and Wimbledon ), but they are not great, not by any means. Their good run has been largely the result of two people, Phillips and Sorensen. AND YES, I think Phillips has been the best striker in the premiership, compare his goal tally to your much beloved Cole and you'll see it too, and compare that then with the number of goals Sunderland have scored and you'll realise that he has been awesome this season. And please don't compare Yorke and Phillips, if Phillips were in the man utd team I'm sure he would've had a fair share more goals than he currently has, especially with beckham's crossing.
Now as for my comparison of Solsjkaer with the Arsenal striker, I stick to my ratings. Suker is a very talented player, but his flashes of brilliance is exactly that, flashes. He's come on many a times, especially in the european games and not done anything. And I'm comparing the Suker of today not Suker of the past. Suker has had an incredible career, but it's on the downhill. He's not fast, is an average dribbler, is a fantastic finisher, can't really header the ball goalwards anymore.
And I'm very sorry, but I think a striker is one who does exactly that, he strikes. Kanu and Bergie are forwards, who can also strike, but are more there to confuse the crap out of the defense, create goals and put the goal in the back of the net every so often. With man utd that position isn't really defined, but it has been for many years with Arsenal ( well, since Bergie came ) Anelka, Henry, Wright, Suker = strikers, and they fed off the supply of Bergkamp, Kanu = forwards. And how can you compare Solsjkaer to Bergkamp or Kanu ?? He could never do the job they do, and they never the job he can(just look at bergie's spectacular header against Leeds). I'm sorry, but if you say Bergkamp is a better 'striker' than Solsjkaer than I say Scholes is better midfielder than Keane.
And how quickly man utd forget that a few seasons ago this same Solsjkaer was your great hero, so what has changed ? Solsjkaer hasn't, in fact I think his goal strike rate has increased per game. But I'd love it if fergie sold him, can't imagine Cole coming off the bench and turning a game around.
"There are only two or three well known players who are genuine two footed players" I never said that Suker had to be a natural left and right footed player, but he's much like winterburn in that they ONLY use their left feet, so much so that they would rather pass with the outside of their left foot than use the inside of their right. There's a big difference between this and someone who prefers his left ( or right ) but can use his other foot too if in a tight situation. Suker had some great moments with that left boot, especially that volleyd strike from the edge of the box, but how many times has he found himself inside the box and trying to get on to his left foot for a strike just to be blocked or dispossesed ? Bottom line here is that Suker is still good, West ham are very lucky that he wants to go there next season, but I'd prefer Solsjkaer.

BUT, if after all this you still think that Arsenal has 4 better than he, Chelsea has two, Man Utd has two, Liverpool has three, West Ham has two, then GREAT, that's your opinion, I've defended mine and will stick to mine. BUT, I've gotta wonder, West Ham ?? Di Canio and ?

Okay, time to compromise. Sols is not a wunderkind ( is that like a wonderkid ? ), but he's a damn fine player and very much unappreciated at his club. Suker is still good, and will be great at West Ham along with Di canio.
BUT, what do you mean ' if I allow your submission that in most midfield combinations all or most of the three, four, or five players have different, defined roles ' ?? The 'job' you mention after this details the job of the midfield, and the midfield consists of 3-5 players, each fulfilling one or more of those jobs, but not all of them. Same goes for the attackers in a team, they have a certain 'job' which can sometimes be done by all, or each attacker fullfilling one of those tasks.
As for Keane, he retains possesion, offer support in defence, man mark, occasionally scores. Scholes complements the attackers, especially since they lack a Kanu or Bergkamp to craft and create goals, and he also acts as a support striker. Where Keane is undoubtly the best defensive midfielder ( YES, that is his role ) in England( this year and the year before, before that this title belonged to Mr Petit and Vieira ), Scholes is one of the best attacking midfielders in England. I can't compare an attacking midfielder to a defensive midfielder and say one is better than another. It's like saying one programmer is better than another when the one writes the graphic interface and the other the database functionality( Sorry, my ITness coming through here )
But to your answer, is Scholes a better PLAYER than Keane, ABSOLUTELY NOT. Cause now you compare them as players not as midfielders. Throw the whole man utd team in and Keane is still the best player, doesn't mean he's a better defender or goalkeeper.

Your Royal ITness,
was that the "readme", where you acknowledge your errors. Have you just admitted that I am almost correct? Was it the glaring miss against Chelsea today, or Henry's performance yet again. Seriously, I think we have beaten this horse to a pulp, so I eagerly await the next post that I have an opposite or different view. One thing we have all agreed upon.........The Premier League has evolved to the point of excellence.The mere fact that teams can boast of having three, four, sometimes five better than average players augurs well.

Okay mate, you are right; and I accede that it is genuinely possible to believe that Sols is a wunderkind, unappreciated by his club, and secondly, perhaps it was deceitful to nominate Wanchope as a better striker.........but I think even you must admit that there are positive arguments to support the others. I see you are dabbling in semantics to defend certain positions, Suker is not a has-been and he remains a better player than Sols(in my opinion). I fail to see this recurring argument of an unstated criterion that decides Scholes a better mid-fielder than Keane. I once wrote here that the Premier League has only 4 excellent performers and they were Keane, Stam, Wenger and Ferguson. Scholes is nowhere close to Keane. Even if I allow your submission that in most midfield combinations all or most of the three, four, or five players have different, defined roles.........The fact remains that there job is to allow transition from defence to attack, retain possession away from the final third, offer support in numbers to defence and attack, man-mark and zone, score occasionally, and "hold the ball up" when needed. Now, is Scholes a better player than Keane? Absolutely not! Don't allow a few eye-catching strikes to sway you, your arguments have been reasonable thus far.

No Antithesis, that was the FAQ part.Okay, so after watching the weekend highlights last night ( they've got an hour long program here with all the goals and incidents from all the games ) I must say that Henry has really developed well, he's grown as a player and he strikes like lightning. And yes, Solsjkaer did miss a good chance, nothing that Henry or Bergkamp haven't done in the last two games. But Solsjkaer did score a lovely goal.
Without a doubt the weekend star was Di Canio, damn this guy is good. Screw his age, if I was an italian supporter I would want him upfront. Windass was brilliant too, makes me kick my own butt that I dropped him from my fantasy league team.