Whats all this talk about expelling the greatest football nation on Earth from the premier sporting event that we all experience only once ever four years??

First of all Nike the richest sporting goods corporation has invested an enormous amount of money in Brazil and Nike. As if they would sit by and watch their trophy team not play.

Second the Japanese and Koreans are betting heavily on the Brazilians to attract audiences for their matches. In fact they are thinking of charging different prices for each match. I wonder if matches with Brazil on it would be one of the highest ticket prices?

Third if Brazil is not in the World Cup the nation that wins for example England or Netherlands or Argentina, whom ever it should be should always wonder.

"Sure we were good, but we never faced Brazil , who knows what would have happened if they were there".

Also this team will never be considered a real winner in the eyes of the media and public.

Last the rather you hate them or love them (they are mine and many others favorite team) everyone wants to see players like Rivaldo Roberto Carlos Denilson etc. Especially countries like the Americans which are trying to grow to a soccer power. The common American has no clue that Netherlands is a soccer power. He knows of Pele and Brazil though.

BRAZIL MUST STAY. FIFA DONT BE IDIOTS

On the contrary, they must be banned for the two years that Mexico got. Those are the rules, and you can't decide to enforce them when the offender is Mexico and then let Brazil off with a slap on the wrist because they are the top ranked team.

They screwed up. They made the bed, time to lie in it. Why a team with their skills needed to cheat in the first place is beyond me, but they are determined to stay at the top -- by cheating, if need be.

Bye-bye Brazil. See you in 2 years.

While i agree that a World Cup without Brazil would be crap, you reasons are however pretty lame.

Also, lets not forget that Brazil are not the current holders and if Holland or Argentina (england? Don't be stupid) do win then they'll will of deserved it.

As usual, you are over-stating Brazils importance. If the situation is the same as Mexico (I don't if it is) then Brazil should be banned. Its tough, Its unfair but thats the way it is.

As I said, I would like to see Brazil there as they are always one of the best teams to watch but if they've cheated then throw them out.

People you should do your home work before comparing the Mexico inccident with Brasil.

Because Mexico´s Football Federation was the one to forge the papers of the player some months before the tournament so that he could play in the tourny.

With brasil is a total different case the documents of the Brasilian player was forged by his father and the Football Federation of Brazil(CBF) had nothing to do with it unlike Mexico Federation. Thats why they will never be banned for 2 year.

In this particular case i belive it was not the players idea to alter their age but rather members of the CBF commitee...I belive FIFA does not have the balls to expell Brazil from 2002 worldcup..i think that its not in their best interest either.there arevery little possibilities of brazil beign left out,considering Nike has got there back and joao havelange has johanssen in his pocket...i just want to see what will happen to the CBF or the players in terms of punishment...so im hoping on seeing the scratch do oro in 2002...

[This message has been edited by Edoardo (edited 12-04-1999).]

Edoardo dont you read others people post!


CBF didnt change the players age, and it happened way before the tournament when the player was 13 (unlike Mexico).

This was brought up under another topic. As I said before Brasil shouldn't be expelled now, but neither should have Mexico been for WC 90 and that did happen.

I think the bottom line is there are two sets of rules in FIFA, one for the rich and powerful countries, and another set of rules for everybody else.

When the whole thing with Mexico broke there was no rule that they had to be banned, but someone at FIFA saw the opportunity to get Mexico out of the way and hopefully let USA qualify in their place, and it was very important for FIFA at that time that USA did qualify.

Now this thing with Brasil breaks, and I don't believe this time FIFA will do the same, for the reasons you mentioned(sponsorhip dollars, etc.)

And yes I heard that the father forged the documents or whatever. Why should we believe what CBF now says,when it is common knowledge Brasilian football federation and leagues are some of the most corrupt in the world?

"Why should we believe what CBF now says,when it is common knowledge Brasilian football federation and leagues are some of the most corrupt in the world?"

"Common knowledge" what kind a crap is that, what about the Italian league, every one says is the best and most organized league but a couple years ago they found out about some clubs bribeing off referees and goalies to win matches. And last year there was an inccindent involving a Brasilian(playing in the Italian series) player that score a goal in a game that his team had been bribed to lose. Did Fifa punish any of those teams?



[This message has been edited by edu (edited 12-04-1999).]

A friend of mine at school was in the under-17 tournament (for Jamaica, who got massacred) and he told me even before this whole controversy arose how Brazil seemed to be coasting through everybody.

I think that Brazil deserves the two-year suspension. Slaps on the wrist aren't enough. They deliberately broke the rules and now they have to pay the price.

And all this about the World Cup being less popular-get real. People are going to watch whether Brazil is in it or not. Personally, I think the cup would be even better without Brazil, since instead of the given fact that Brazil would make the final, other teams would have the opportunity to prove themselves, and they would be recognized as winners, not just "the team who won just because Brazil wasn't there."

Hey Edu! It is always funny to watch Europeans or Americans talk about Brazil, like they know more then the Brzilians guys...

Some of the guys who post here I respect but now you are saying s... You should know the fact before you raise accusations against CBF.

Fact - Sandro Hiroshi (the player) forge his ID when we was 12 or 13. Why? Because to play as "infantil" you have to be 12 or less.

Fact - CBF discover it and punish the club and player. Why? Beacuse the club need to check the player ID, not CBF. CBF need to take care of 2 Millions players all around Brazil.

CBF Corrupt? Sometime ago I would say yes (the referee problem). But know? No.
Can you image Flamengo losing for Vasco, just because CBF wants???

So - It is not CBF foul. The player cheat.
He was already punished.

About U-17, Ghana... strong players isn't it?

It remember me a Guy, who wants to discuss with a Croatian (living in Croatia) about the war in Croatia because he saw it on CNN...

thats right, lord.. cbf has nothing about that and nobody will take brazil out from the wc or whatever...
Not even Sao Paulo was punished about that (the lost points were recovered), only Sandro was punished, and thats the right thing...

Forget the fact that no team is on par with Brazil.
Forget the sponsorships.
Forget Nike.
Forget attentances.
Forget it all.

The fact of the matter is, Brazil "BROKE" a rule, and they should pay just like the mexicans. Frankly a world cup without Brazil is not a World Cup at all, but why Brazil cheated at a completly USELESS event is beyond me. Why Brazil WOULD EVEN HAVE TO CHEAT is beyond me as well.

FIFA will not have the BALLS to expel Brazil cause they are a bunch of pussies, but they should, a rule is a rule. If I violate a traffic rule and a copper catches me...do I deserve a ticket? Yes...thank god I have never been caught though....

oh and even if what the CBF is claiming that those players is true...it is still the CBF's responsiblity to verify whatever documents the players give them.

Point 1. As I said before Brasil did break the rule, but punishment is up to FIFA's discretion, there is no set punishment that if you break this rule you get suspended, they give out punishment on case by case basis. And in this case I don't think the punishement of suspending Brasil from WC 2002 would fit the crime.

Point 2. You forgot to mention the doping scandal of last year in Italy, when some positive dope tests for certain players were mysteriously lost.

Point 3. About corruption in Brasil: What about changing the rules on relegation, just so a certain rich and famous club(was it Flamengo? memory fails me) would not be relegated a few years back? What about changing the rules about suspensions for cards in the middle of a home and away championship series 2 years back just so that a certain famous player(Edmundo) could play the return match?

My final point is I would not trust FIFA, CBA, UEFA, or most other organizations in the world to tell the truth when there is a major scandal in need of a cover-up.

Mr_Portugal, how stupid you are.. brazil didnt break any ****ing rule, and wont be punished!!!

Brazilian broke a rule.
True a WC is not the same without Brazil,but tough s**t.They cheated.They must bite the bullet.

You reap what you sow.

POB2: I understand how much FUTEBOL means to Brazil (my father is Brazillian)...but I still feel that if you break a rule you must bite the bullet. Mexico paid the price....eventhough Mexico are not even on the same planet as Brazil in terms of footie talent....Brazil must do the same,
to quote FAT BOY THOM:

"You reap what you sow. "


ADEUS,
Marco

But if Brazil does get suspended...then so should ALL the african teams...cause those teams cheat like CRAZY!

Well, nothing of the above does matter, since Brazil will never be banned from the next WC. They are just too important to it. Japan/Korea, Fifa and yes even Nike will be the judge of this and we all know how that will go.
Cause where the WC is concerned, money is number 1, 2 and 3. Brazil will allways be included, no matter how gravely they should ever screw up.

Not that I would mind not having them. Get rid of Brazil and Germany, and the WC would be just fine!

give up, mr_portugal.. now i understand why here they say people from portugal are so ****ing stupid..
brazil did not brake any rules, just an idiot (who plays in my team) changed his documents, and it was not even him, it was his first club's president who did that..
so, cbf has nothing about that, brazil did not brake the rules, and wont be out form wc!!!!

POB2: I will refrain from insulting you cause you are also a countrymen. But let's see...that player went out and represented BRAZIL...played for BRAZIL..plays in the BRAZILLIAN LEAGUE...the club president who is also a BRAZILLIAN falsified his documents so he can play for BRAZIL. If I was in charge of the CBF I would VERIFY the players documents!
The CBF didn't do that..and unknowingly allowed an illegal player to play. IT IS STILL THEIR RESPONSIBILITY!

Refrain from racist comments!

Isnt it a "coinsidence" that more than one player had forged documents (just like Mexico) hmmmm.... funny how history tends to repeat it self...

[This message has been edited by Edoardo (edited 12-05-1999).]

I am not going to continue this discussion.
You could have your ideas theories, bla, bla, bla...

As we said, the players forge his id, not to play at the Brazilian team (he was 12 or 13) but to play in a regular team. That's what happen.

If CBF is guilty, or the club, not to control all the 2 Millions papers is up to discussion.

Brazil WILL NEVER be suspended/expelled/prohibited from competing in a World Cup over this. For you Americans, consider this: would the New York Yankees EVER be prohibited from competing in a World Series short of "throwing" one? End of discussion.

First i dont want Brazil to be expelled,Second you Lord admitted that more than one player had forged documents,this tells me that the CBF who is to control the 2 million players,that their not doing their job....the question at hand is why they forged their documents. Whats the hurry to play when you know that you allready have it made...Everybody knows that Brazil is #1 in exporting players and playing in U-17,U-20,U-23,tournaments is a great way of "displaying"talent to the top notch clubs of the world .the only true benneficiaries are the Brazilian clubs who proffit from selling the players...having said this it is safe to say that many conclusions can be added as to why the papers where forged and i dont buy that you got to be 12 or 13 to play in "infantil" since the players where good enough to be considered to play there and the fact that they where younger than 12-13 makes them look even better and what about previous documents pertaning to the players or was all of this thought out in advance....All i know is someone screwed up be it CBF or the brazilian club the players belonged to and know they have to pay...you break it you buy it ...all im really interested in is what will FIFA do about it....do they have the testicular fortitude to make yet another example of what happens when you cheat in their official FIFA seal of aproval tourneys or are they going to sell out to team NIKE !?!?! $$$

[This message has been edited by Edoardo (edited 12-06-1999).]

To Lord:
I don't blame you for defending Brasil, just your arguements are disingenuous.

No one asks for Brasil fed to control all 2 million players to make sure they don't fake age or take doping, or do whatever. But they should control those players who play for their national teams(doping tests and proof of age), can we at least agree on that?

Its simple you want to play for U-17 or U-20 or whatever National team you have to prove your age. And if now they blame the club for not checking, I think the CBF is full of crap.

Also I agree with you lets finish with arguing this topic because we both have the same viewpoint on the bottom line: that no matter what happened Brasil should not be banned from the World Cup.

And yes maybe I don't remember all the facts of the controversies I mentioned, but the basic facts are true.

"Point 3. About corruption in Brasil: What about changing the rules on relegation, just so a certain rich and famous club(was it Flamengo? memory fails me) would not be relegated a few years back? What about changing the rules about suspensions for cards in the middle of a home and away championship series 2 years back just so that a certain famous player(Edmundo) could play the return match?"

Again you show you don't know nothing about Brazilian soccer...
And I am not going to explain why, because it is off-topic, but look the facts better before you write...

I would say that not having Brazil in a World Cup would be a great loss but not a total tragedy. If you don't remember, France beat Brazil convincingly 3-0 in the last World Cup. Brazil is a great football nation but they are not THE ONLY power in the world today. I saw them lose to the Nigerians in the 96 Olympics (I know the Olympic squad is not the WC squad but there were still quite a few stars on that team). Nobody is going to be wondering "what if Brazil was there" those statements are idiotic. The competition is not made by the presence of one team alone. If rules were broken in any way shape or form then a penalty should be incurred. Maybe not expulsion from the World Cup, that might be extreme...but then again this would teach the guilty parties a lesson wouldn't it? They would get their act together regarding the "details" of their players. The Brazilian citizens would demand it because missing the most important football event that only occurs every 4 years would suck.

And hey I'm a common American soccer fan and I know about the Netherlands. Another idiotic comment.

The better you are, more responsible you have to be - and show a good example.

oh ****!! ****ing ****!! i just cant believe on some of you.. how many times need to explain that CBF has nothing about those ****ing documents.. they did nothing wrong!!!

Im with you POB CBF (Brazilian Commite of Football) did nothing wrong, BUT THEY DIDNT DO RIGHT EITHER, come on how hard must be to keep track of 22 football players is that to much to ask from a Federation that is TAXES free and is loaded with money from the Nike deal.

Couldnt they hire people just to look into players documents?

i'm not adding fuel to fire, but in the Tiger5 futsal(indoor soccer) championships held here in singapore last week, Brazil were involved in a free-4-all with spain.
One Brasil player shouted obscenities at Spain's bench and a fight started. The players had no respect for the law and even hit the policemen...

danilo how stupid are you? what that has to do with this topic?

What were you trying to state? every where in the world there bound to be stupid people like you and that brazilian player.

Hello, can anybody tell me what is going on here???? Brasil is expeled from WC 2002????

What is happend ????

Well, I'm from holland, as you all know, brasil BEAT holland at the last wordcup, but when we are winning the WC2002, it must be one WITH Brasil... Because everybody's gonna say "Well a worldcup withoud brasil, is easyer to win".

.. but on the other hand, if they realy deserved it....?

All of you that defend the CBF that they knew nothing, if you believe a word that comes out of their mouths you are very naive. Look at all the lying and shady dealing that has gone on there month after month for years:

No less than 5 times in this decade they bend the rules so that relegated teams could stay in the champioship. Teams and players suspended for life get reinstated after 1 month. Players(esp. if your name is Romario or Edmundo) that should be suspended for cards or fighting are allowed to play in the classicos. Then of course the match fixing scandals, with the chief of referees resigning in 97. Pele called some of their actions despicable and a disgrace in the eyes of the world!

Well, without Brazil it would be the first time they haven't played in a World Cup tourney. I would still prefer to see them in the World Cup (even though I don't support them). One thing I would like to know is...why ban the SENIOR team for something that the UNDER-17 team has done?

Polish - Hey calm down! Take a candy! Yes calm down... Brazil will not be banished.

You already show you don't know nothing about our futebol.

http://www.soccergaming.com/ubb/smile.gif

ps: It was 2 times (Fluminense and Gremio)
To eskecendo alguem?

Lord:
It is no shame for me to not know a lot about Brasilian football, I don't live in Brasil, am not Brasilian, and have only limited access to football news from Brasil. All the things I said about corruption in CBF you cannot deny them, maybe I had the team name wrong, but the basic facts right.

Also just to let you know for the record:
In 96 both Fluminese and Bragantino were relegated, yet both were re-insated for 97 season. Also Atletico Paranaense got a one year suspension for match fixing before the 97 season, yet 1 month later were allowed to remain in the league.

Gremio was relegated and played in Serie B in 92, but to help them return to Serie A CBF ruled that top 12 teams would be promoted the following season.

Rules were also changed for 91 Paulista league. When Sao Paolo were relegated previous year, they changed the rule and allowed the top 3 teams(Sao Paolo just happened to be in top 3) in B group to join the top 5 in A group at the final stage of the championship.