hmm..netherlands is missing [Archive]

16Valve

01-12-2003, 08:56:AM

Originally posted by MadAZNFootballe
Dude Italy has a front line of Del Piero, Totti, and Vieri....their bench with Montella and Inzaghi can kick Holland's ass(remember Euro 2000)...nuff said..

And we all remember how well Vieri played in last years Champions League final and how well he played against Arsenal recently.
His best days are WAY behind him....as are his days at Inter.

How'd Italy do in the last World Cup?
I rest my case.

Though at least they qualified :P

I'd take the Dutch trio over those Italian dinosaurs anyday as far as players go. The Dutch are amazing for their club teams. Just crap for country.

ON PAPER Holland has no equals except for maybe Brazil. Problem is they seem to hate playing for their country and/or just have no teamwork. We'll see how the younger wave (vd Vaart et. al) want to play. I'd honest;y like to see them scrap Davids, Seedorf, the De Boers and especially Kluivert for younger players.
Kluivert has issues and has played terribly for two seasons. His finishing (except for maybe the past couple of games) for Barcelona hasn't gotten the job done.

MadAZNFootballe

01-12-2003, 09:13:AM

mnj2x

01-12-2003, 09:28:AM

van der vaart is class... Holland rulz and is a big shame they r not in FIFA 2004

americangreg

01-12-2003, 09:00:PM

You dutch people all see it on the bright side.. I think the results will be something more like this:

NL - GER 1-1
NL - LTV 2-0
NL - CHZ 1-3

You dutchies like to exagerate everything. When Holland lost to Scotland 1-0 EVERYONE nailed advocaat and there was NO ONE in the country that had something positive to say about the national team. Now they win a game 6-0 (nothing special, holland SHOULD be the better team of the 2) and again Holland think they can beat anyone. You'll see, you won't even get through the group stage...

Portugal will win Euro 2004, although I hope Spain will win it..

karmey

01-12-2003, 09:26:PM

who cares if Holland isn't in the game, as long as Norway is there?
too bad they didn't made it against Spain...:kader:

Hakki

01-12-2003, 09:45:PM

For the first time i agree with an american --- Americangreg

americangreg

02-12-2003, 01:11:AM

Hehe, well, I don't always agree with my fellow americans either. I think that might be coz I'm half spanish :crazyboy:

Anywayz, I think Holland is over its top.. Euro 2000 was their chance, but they blew it, so they'll have to wait for a new generation...

And NO, that doesn't mean changing 2 or 3 players of the team. I mean they'll have to wait for at least another 4-5 years...

imlovinit

02-12-2003, 05:48:AM

I just want to say a few words:

First of all MadAZNFootballer,
I agree whit u that Del Piero, Totti,Vieri and Inzaghi are worldclass strikers, I dont count Montella
But Holland has more players of worldclass.
Most of them are strikers:
And I think every1 will agree that those players are worldclass players:
- Patrick Kluivert
Lots of people are talking about the bad performance of Holland and especially Kluivert, but common it can't be 1 out of 11 players who ruins the whole team, thats impossible. I do agree Kluivert is really crap the last few seasons but I'm really suprised people dont have respect for him. He was one of the players around 1995 who won the worldcup for clubteams, he played a big part in it. After this worldcup he played lots of games scroring a lot. Thats why Barcelona bought him when they were playing well in the Spanish League. He has a long history and is the alltime topscrorer for Holland. He scored more goals than Bergkamp or Marco van Basten. U cant say he is a bad player. Now everyone lets him down. But I can imagine some people think about Kluivert like not playing good for Holland.

- Ruud van Nistelrooij
Well I dont have to say much bout him. He is a excellent striker.
Thats also why he playes for Man Utd. And he still does. Great striker. He also has a long way to go whit Holland

- Roy Makaay
When you are the topscorer of the Primera Divisione that says a lot. There are some great strikers in the Spanish league and he was one of the best last season. Now playing for Bayern he still shows his qualities to us all.

- Jimmy Floyd Hassebaink
Hasselbaink is also a great striker. He has a nice powerfull shot and also scores a lot in the Premier League. Unfortunately he doesn't play that much anymore for Chelski. But still a good striker.

- Pierre van Hooijdonk
I think this is a very rare player. He is not the best striker scoring goals by making nice moves but still a good striker.
Winning the Uefacup for a club like Feyenoord is a really good performance. He was there when he had to be there for the team. It is very good to make a club champion which has not very much quality players of worldclass. Also still shows his skills in Turkey. Last weekend scored 2 times for Fenerbache. Headers are not really a issue for him.
Van Hooijdonk is far out the best freekick specialist from a distance of aproximately 20/25meters.

Italy was very lucky at Euro2000 (or Holland very unlucky). I think if you saw the game u wouldn't be saying that Italy kicked ass
Missing 2 penalties and some big chances Holland doesnt do very often. And they were very close to scoring but they missed the finishing touch.

Americangreg:
I dont know how u came to the point of telling that in Holland had something positive to say. U shouldn't believe everything that the press says. After the game a newspaper also said things bout the players private life and they're were also wrong. The paper apoligised 4 it, but in the mean while CNN also copied it etc. Thats why most of the players didnt talk to the press for some days. Except Sneijder and van de Vaart.

I agree that the scores I put above were a bit optimistic ;)
But that was just to get this threat started and I think I'm succeed :D
But they really are able to beat any national team in the world.
And erm.. I don't think they have to wait 4 or 5 years till the next generation. Holland has some young players which could be able to play in Portugal'04:
Rafael van de Vaart, Wesley Sneijder, Nigel de Jong, Robin van Persie, Arjen Robben.

Well this is all I had to say, for now
Have fun playing FIFA :D

americangreg

02-12-2003, 08:38:PM

Americangreg:
I dont know how u came to the point of telling that in Holland had something positive to say. U shouldn't believe everything that the press says. After the game a newspaper also said things bout the players private life and they're were also wrong. The paper apoligised 4 it, but in the mean while CNN also copied it etc. Thats why most of the players didnt talk to the press for some days. Except Sneijder and van de Vaart.

I live in the netherlands dude... :o I was there myself and really, only 1 out of 20 persons had something good to say about their national team... Indeed the players were mad, but on that moment almost everyone thought advocaat should go..

I know you might be that one person out of the 20 that was positive, but the rest wasn't positive at all...

Ajax 4-ever

02-12-2003, 09:27:PM

Holland have to be in fifa 2004!!! In Portugal we shall see: Netherlands-Germany: 2-0
Netherlands-Latvia: 2-1
Netherlands-Chez: 1-1

Hristos

02-12-2003, 10:04:PM

Originally posted by imlovinit
U cant just ignore the fact that holland is not in the game.
It is a team which cant be ignored just like that.
England actually is nothin compared 2 holland
We'll c it all in Portugal
Just can't wait.
Holland - Germany 3-0
Holland - Latvia 5-0
Holland - Chez 2-1

That should be enough

Next round:
England - Holland 0-4

The nightmare of England: Holland :p
How did you get those results? Did you travel forwards in time, and come back to tell us? LOL.

But seriously tho, if they put an effort into the whole tournament like they did against the poor Scots, then they will go very far. Will they win it? Time will tell.

But Greece will beat Portugal in the opening match! That I can guarantee you all!

americangreg

03-12-2003, 02:07:AM

But Greece will beat Portugal in the opening match! That I can guarantee you all!

I'd love that! Coz Spain will take revenge on Greece, and then they'll win from Russia and Portugal too, so spain will go through :rockman:

3m1n3m

03-12-2003, 03:12:AM

If Cristiano Ronaldo is there, just behind Pauleta, believe me: GREECE IS DOOMED. And Spain also... Scolari said that he'll play with a 4x2x2x2 system, with 2 defensive midfielders, 2 offensive mids, and a free forward behind the striker Pauleta. And if that free forward is Ronaldo, believe me, you won't live up to tell everyone else :p

Russia, I don't know them very well as a team. Just a few players, like Sergey Ovchinnikov, Dimitry Alenitchev, Yegor Titov, Alexander Mostovoi, Ruslan Nigmatulin, Ruslan Pimenov, Dimitry Sychev or Dimitry Los'kov. As a team, never saw them, except on very short game highlights. I'm gonna pay more attention to them from now on.

Holland looks a very insecure team. They have some of the world's best players, like Kluivert, Nistelrooy, Jaap Stam, but as a team, they have a few failures, and so, we have to wait and see.

americangreg

03-12-2003, 04:58:AM

Nah, spain'll win the match against portugal ;)

imlovinit

03-12-2003, 08:29:AM

I think the poules are great.
Spain and Portugal
Germany and Holland
France and England
Its all very nice

rley

03-12-2003, 08:41:AM

russia are awesome, especially lokomotiv moscow... cause australia are struggling to reach the WC and arent in Europe russia is my adopted country lol. u all saw in the world cup that outsiders can get up and win (senegal, south korea)

fb132

03-12-2003, 08:54:AM

You people are sooooo stupid, Vieri's best days are behind him????My god he had 24 goals in 21 games last year in a so called defensive league. Kluivert is a choker in big games. Ruud doesnt perform that well for Holland compared to what he does at Man Utd, Hasselbaink is definitevly not better than Inzaghi, at least Inzaghi proved last year in the CL what a good finisher he was by finishing second top scorer in the CL. Just Italy's defense destroys Holland's and Euro 2000 was no fluke, Holland barely had 1 or 2 scoring chance, the first pk was not even supposed to be a pk, the second yes, but still its not Italy's fault that Holland sucks at taking pk's.

MadAZNFootballe

03-12-2003, 09:02:AM

Originally posted by fb132
You people are sooooo stupid, Vieri's best days are behind him????My god he had 24 goals in 21 games last year in a so called defensive league. Kluivert is a choker in big games. Ruud doesnt perform that well for Holland compared to what he does at Man Utd, Hasselbaink is definitevly not better than Inzaghi, at least Inzaghi proved last year in the CL what a good finisher he was by finishing second top scorer in the CL. Just Italy's defense destroys Holland's and Euro 2000 was no fluke, Holland barely had 1 or 2 scoring chance, the first pk was not even supposed to be a pk, the second yes, but still its not Italy's fault that Holland sucks at taking pk's.

You also gotta remember Italy was down a man for a fair amount of time.

LiberoHong

03-12-2003, 10:19:AM

Originally posted by Jomi
Be careful, too much arrogance and self confidence can lead to cruel desillusions.
Remember France in the World Cup ;)

Even a team of that quality of France - maybe the best A national side as of now - ain't same without world's greatest; ZIZOU a la 2002 worldcup ZIZOU was missed in that piece

LiberoHong

03-12-2003, 10:22:AM

how bout a Creation center so you can make Dutch side and fix the damn jersey numbers EA messed up.

soccerbread

03-12-2003, 12:46:PM

I think that all countries no matter what should be in the game other wise we all keep having these conversations and every gets mad, if they don't get rights they should just make like a generic team at least to replace them or something.

MagicaRoma

03-12-2003, 11:01:PM

Originally posted by 16Valve
And we all remember how well Vieri played in last years Champions League final and how well he played against Arsenal recently.
His best days are WAY behind him....as are his days at Inter.

How'd Italy do in the last World Cup?
I rest my case.

Though at least they qualified :P

I'd take the Dutch trio over those Italian dinosaurs anyday as far as players go. The Dutch are amazing for their club teams. Just crap for country.

.

My God!!!!!!!!!!!!!1You make me laugh! I am Dutch but mainly a Roma fan so I often see the likes of Totti, Cassano, Montella and co play and trust me: ITALY WOULD CRASH HOLLAND!!!
The reason why they wouldn't would be the same reason why they failed during the world-cup: a demented and too defensive minded coach like Trappatoni.
Just compare the teams:
keeper: Van de Sar- over the hill and never able to save "impossible" shots against Buffon: regarded as one (if not the best) keeper in the world.

defense: Holland has got 1 defender: Stam & he's getting old. De Boer is slow and a laugh with his mistakes & on the wings they haven't got "real" defenders, van Bronckhosrt/Reiziger are too attacking and lack skill. Italy has in Cannavaro & Nesta the 2 best and solid defenders in the world!

In midfield Italy has got ballwinners like Zanetti, Holland has got Davids & apart from that, people like Cocu who are TOO old (again, most of the Dutch team is over 30!!). On the flanks I don't think over-the-hill (again) OVermars or mediocre Van der Meijde (what a laugh, Inter, he's Bologna material, not topteam worthy as he's proving week in week out with a few exceptions) can compete with the likes of Zambrotta!

Attack: How can you call Vieri crap????? He scores EVERYWHERE! Don't see Patrick (9goals a year for Barca) Kluivert do that!
And Holland hasn't got a playmaker after Bergkamp anymore like Italy has: Totti rocks, if he's play with Cassano they'll cruise through the slow Dutch defense!!!!! Not to forget about Del Piero, Holland just doesn't have players in these positions, Seedorf comes the closest and that says it all!
And Inzaghi, Montella etc are better subs than Hasselbaink, Van Hooijdonk!

And how can you say the Dutch play good for their respectable teams? Okay, Stam, Van Nistelrooy and a couple of others maybe, but you forgot about our ****e Barca-players? And don't Italian players play good for their teams?? EVEN BETTER, WANKER!!!!

I could make it longer, but I have to go, just hope Italy will play Holland in the QFinals, and you'd be quite! Italy is WAY BEYOND HOLLAND. Inconparible, way better! Just because they beat Scotland 6-0 shouldn't let you forget the bad games they played continuously before that!!!!

Like I said, I'm Dutch, but I prefer the great Italy over those arrogant, overselfconfident and mediocre Dutch wankers! One good game (Scotland) in a year doesn't make you a champion
FORZA ITALIA & ROMA per sempre!!!!

MagicaRoma

03-12-2003, 11:09:PM

Originally posted by Danimal
I underline that as a Dutchman....:rockman:

I mean come on: v/d Sar, Westerveld; Reiziger, Stam, Cocu, F.de Boer, v. Bronckhorst, Zenden, Bouma, Ooijer; Seedorf, Sneijder, Davids, v. Bommel, v/d Vaart, Kluivert; v. Nistelrooy, Hasselbaink, v. Hooijdonk, Makaay, Overmars, v/d Meyde, Robben, R. de Boer:

There all worldclass. You name me one worldclass national team that has it strikers positions tripple-taken. France -no-, Italy -no-, Brazil -maybe-, England -definitley not-, Germany -Don't make me laugh-
Wait 'till Euro2004; we'll show y'all what soccer is about!!!!!

D.animal

Another one, I compare with the Italian team (which you call less than Holland):

Buffon, Toldo (does he ring a bell maybe, little spotkick boy); Nesta, Panucci, Cannavaro, Legrotaglie, Ferrari, Oddo, Maldini (if he'll still play for them), Zambrotta, Coco, Perrotta, Zanetti, Fiore, Tomassi, De Rossi (who? you'll know soon.....), Pirlo, Gattuso, Fiore, Del Piero, Camoranesi, Totti, Inzaghi, Vieri, Montella, Cassano, Di Vaio, Delvechio, Corradi

And strikerpositions triple taken, let me see:
Trequartista/playmaker: Totti-Del Piero-Cassano
Tall, target man striker: Vieri, Delvechio, Corradi
Quick, pacefull striker: Inzaghi, Montella, De Vaio

That only took me 3 seconds to think of, so I don't know where YOU get your primitive impression from that only Holland has that. Oh no, Holland DOESN'T HAVE a trequartista, only strikers, which means Italy has EVEN MORE options, as they can play in different positions!!! So don't come out with bull**** that Italy hasn't got those positions triple taken, first learn not to be so narrow minded before you open your IGNORANT mouth. And who cares if you have triple taken positions anyway, you need ONE cover-up for every position, NOT TWO (waste for the bench), plus players that are multi-functional, and Holland doesn't have the latter: eg: Totti, Del Piero & Cassano can play as playmaker AND striker, Delvechio can play striker and leftwing etc.......Kluivert, van Nistelrooy, etc can play as a striker, AND THAT's IT!

If you still think Holland is better, you are just arrogant or chauvinistic or worst: BOTH!!!!!

americangreg

04-12-2003, 01:50:AM

I must agree with that mediterranean friend of mine (H)

MagicaRoma

04-12-2003, 01:58:AM

Originally posted by americangreg
I must agree with that mediterranean friend of mine (H)
Were you referring to me? I don't only live in Holland (like you), but I'm born and raised here. My nationality is Dutch, no Italian blood or whatever!
Maybe my opinion sounds strange as I'm Dutch myself, but if I like it or not, on my passport is still says: Netherlands!

MagicaRoma

04-12-2003, 01:59:AM

[Maybe it's easier to understand my oppinion if I say that my girlfriend is born Roman!
And like Italian women compared to Dutch women, it's the same with the football teams, NO COMPARISONS!!!! Italy wins by miles;)

Hristos

04-12-2003, 02:21:AM

Originally posted by americangreg
I'd love that! Coz Spain will take revenge on Greece, and then they'll win from Russia and Portugal too, so spain will go through :rockman:
Wishful thinking! We beat Spain in Zaragoza, and we will beat them once again in Portugal!

GREECE 4 EVER

16Valve

04-12-2003, 04:06:AM

Well, Mr. MagicaRoma, I'm glad I got you all riled up enough to waste your time.

Though maybe you never even read my post because I CLEARLY never said Holland would beat Italy, I'm not quite as stupid as you are to make such claims. Anything can happen on any given day. You must relise that since Italy went crashing out of the last World Cup so EASILY.

Also, I'm certain in my post I NEVER SAID that because we beat Scotland that we'd "destroy" anyone. Clearly I'm not dumb enough (unlike you) to make such claims.

The future will tell as to whether or not Holland will advance and the same will go for Italy. Though it is absolutely CERTAIN that Italy plays the most boring, pathetic, uninspiring, defensive, 10-men-behind-the-ball, wait for the other team to **** up football that has ever been played.

You can always count on that fact that if an Italian team is in any final, it will be one of the worst finals in history. Just like last years Champions League final. AC Milan?? Best team in the world?
The only team they actually beat from the quarter finals on was in the second leg against Ajax (3-2). Tied both Games against Inter and then tied Juve in the final. Typical. 0-0 How exciting!! Typical Italian football.

Kinda hard for Totti, Del Piero, Viera, or any other striker to score when they're PLAYING DEFENSE!!!

Want proof?
Euro 2000 Italy v Holland 0-0 (Italy had to win on penalties).
World Cup '98 Italy v France 0-0 (France won this time on kicks)
World Cup '94 Italy v Brazil 0-0 (Brazil won on kicks)
World Cup '90 Semifinals Italy v Argentina 1-1 after a full 120 minutes Argentina won on kicks....

I COULD go on and on but you get the idea. Maybe Italy should try and WIN one of these games instead of not losing and maybe, just maybe, they'd win in full time. It seems they don't really fare well in PK's.

Next time you just down my throat, read my post first. Don't put words in my mouth that I never said.

imlovinit

04-12-2003, 07:08:AM

Originally posted by 16Valve

Want proof?
Euro 2000 Italy v Holland 0-0 (Italy had to win on penalties).
World Cup '98 Italy v France 0-0 (France won this time on kicks)
World Cup '94 Italy v Brazil 0-0 (Brazil won on kicks)
World Cup '90 Semifinals Italy v Argentina 1-1 after a full 120 minutes Argentina won on kicks....

I dont really c the difference whit Holland than, except the fact
European Cup '00 Holland v Italy (Italy wins on penalties)
:D

And I agree:
Italian woman are damn hot:p

fb132

04-12-2003, 08:50:AM

Originally posted by 16Valve
Well, Mr. MagicaRoma, I'm glad I got you all riled up enough to waste your time.

Though maybe you never even read my post because I CLEARLY never said Holland would beat Italy, I'm not quite as stupid as you are to make such claims. Anything can happen on any given day. You must relise that since Italy went crashing out of the last World Cup so EASILY.

Also, I'm certain in my post I NEVER SAID that because we beat Scotland that we'd "destroy" anyone. Clearly I'm not dumb enough (unlike you) to make such claims.

The future will tell as to whether or not Holland will advance and the same will go for Italy. Though it is absolutely CERTAIN that Italy plays the most boring, pathetic, uninspiring, defensive, 10-men-behind-the-ball, wait for the other team to **** up football that has ever been played.

You can always count on that fact that if an Italian team is in any final, it will be one of the worst finals in history. Just like last years Champions League final. AC Milan?? Best team in the world?
The only team they actually beat from the quarter finals on was in the second leg against Ajax (3-2). Tied both Games against Inter and then tied Juve in the final. Typical. 0-0 How exciting!! Typical Italian football.

Kinda hard for Totti, Del Piero, Viera, or any other striker to score when they're PLAYING DEFENSE!!!

Want proof?
Euro 2000 Italy v Holland 0-0 (Italy had to win on penalties).
World Cup '98 Italy v France 0-0 (France won this time on kicks)
World Cup '94 Italy v Brazil 0-0 (Brazil won on kicks)
World Cup '90 Semifinals Italy v Argentina 1-1 after a full 120 minutes Argentina won on kicks....

I COULD go on and on but you get the idea. Maybe Italy should try and WIN one of these games instead of not losing and maybe, just maybe, they'd win in full time. It seems they don't really fare well in PK's.

Next time you just down my throat, read my post first. Don't put words in my mouth that I never said.
Hey at least we qualify and do our best to at least reach a final, Holland couldnt even qualify in 2002.

MagicaRoma

04-12-2003, 02:46:PM

Originally posted by 16Valve

The future will tell as to whether or not Holland will advance and the same will go for Italy. Though it is absolutely CERTAIN that Italy plays the most boring, pathetic, uninspiring, defensive, 10-men-behind-the-ball, wait for the other team to **** up football that has ever been played.

You can always count on that fact that if an Italian team is in any final, it will be one of the worst finals in history. Just like last years Champions League final. AC Milan?? Best team in the world?
The only team they actually beat from the quarter finals on was in the second leg against Ajax (3-2). Tied both Games against Inter and then tied Juve in the final. Typical. 0-0 How exciting!! Typical Italian football.

Kinda hard for Totti, Del Piero, Viera, or any other striker to score when they're PLAYING DEFENSE!!!

Want proof?
Euro 2000 Italy v Holland 0-0 (Italy had to win on penalties).
World Cup '98 Italy v France 0-0 (France won this time on kicks)
World Cup '94 Italy v Brazil 0-0 (Brazil won on kicks)
World Cup '90 Semifinals Italy v Argentina 1-1 after a full 120 minutes Argentina won on kicks....

I COULD go on and on but you get the idea. Maybe Italy should try and WIN one of these games instead of not losing and maybe, just maybe, they'd win in full time. It seems they don't really fare well in PK's.

I allready mentioned that Italy has a overdefensive-minded coach, almost everyone in Italy hates Trapatoni cause he played so defensively! Nowadays he luckily plays more attacking, almost always with a 4312 (tridente) or 4231 formation. So with Totti/Vieri/Del Piero or Inzaghi, not so defensive, is it! And I was talking about players, NOT about how coaches use them!
Apart from that: does Holland play so attacking? Well, if they do, it's an even bigger disgrace that 4 out of 5 games are SOOOOO dull, boring & with few rendement! I can remember Yougoslavia, Portugal and Scotland in the past 4 years & THAT'S IT (maybe I forgot 1 or 2, but that doen't make a difference).

And when you talk about all those draws, don't you forget that Ajax only won 3(!!) games in the CL!! After the first group they beat Roma & lost in Milan, apart from that they managed to get 6 draws!!! I think you were not complaining about boring football than!!!!!
And CL-football IS almost always dull, as the teams are so equal. The final was boring, but so many finals are! "til that point Juve & Milan played really nice and attacking football, remember their respectable games against Madrid eg.
From the Italian teams, it was only Inter that played really disgracefull defensive football!!!

And more about clubfootball: last 2 seasons there were averagely 0,7(!!) goals per game MORE in serie A than in the Premierleague (2,9 in Serie A against 2,2 in PL), so is Italy really more boring than other leagues? Maybe stronger and more tactical, so if you don't like that kind of football it's a matter of taste, not of being more/less boring!
So your 0-0 theory doen't seem to be true as there are FAR more goals in serie A than in premiership! Just a PREJUDICE, not based on FACTS!

And national teams, why the hell do you give me the draws per tournament, you could do that with almost every team, as they'll all won't win ALL their games (exceptions there!!!).
You want prove?
EURO 92: Holland-Denmark 2-2 (Denmark wins on penalties)
EURO 96: Holland-France 0-0 (France wins on penalties)
WC 98: Holland-Brazil 1-1 (Brazil wins on penalties)
EURO 2000: Italy-Holland 0-0 (Italy wins on penalties)
WC 02: (together with WC 94) the only tournament where Holand didn't draw a single game & we all know the reason why!!

Only in the Denmark-game did Holland score more than 1 goal, and it took a last-minute Rijkaard-goal to do that, if I'm not mistaken!!
Not so different than Italy, I think, so your "prove" is kind of feeble!

I agree with you that anything can happen though, as all teams are pretty equal & there are no "easy" games anymore, but Italy looks the stronger, with the right coach/tactics they should beat Holland. ANd if I were you, I wouldn't say about Italy that "should try to win instead of trying not to loose", cause Holland doesn't seem to be too confident on penalties so they should surely try to WIN themselves in normal time!

Snooze

04-12-2003, 02:56:PM

And my father is the strongest of the entire world!!!! :crazyboy:

coolhooligan

04-12-2003, 04:20:PM

Holland has more attacking flair and prowess when going forward. They don't really have quality players in the backline except for Stam who I think is really class but then again hes getting old.

Italy has creative players like Totti, Del Piero, Cassano to support the powerful out-and-out strikers like Vieri. However Italy has class defenders in Nesta and Cannavaro, Zambrotta and others. So since their defense is objectively stronger then their offense, they therefore play to their strengths which is clever.

Nowadays in high-quality matches between top teams the gap is relatively small so usually goals will be at a premium. Thats the way it is. The rest of the so-called smaller countries have caught up and lessened the gap too.

butkis

04-12-2003, 04:26:PM

how cum japan is not in da game?

stonKed

04-12-2003, 04:55:PM

My advice to all Holland vs. Italy arguing types is to try actually going and playing in those countries, rather than writing about it.

I have played in the UK, Holland and Italy and Italy has BY FAR the most talented player base in the world other than Brazil (even their embassy team of mostly ex race car drivers and polo players beat the heck out of us). It's not normal to see so many incredibly talented players in a European country, with superlative, ridiculous skills, in one country.

It's a fact. The problems with Italy are the politics behind the selections and the team strategy - if Capello was the national manager, you would see amazing changes in Italy's game - and the fact that few Italians understand the importance of team play over individual showmanship. I've seen many a hissy fit thrown because Tizio chose to shoot instead of pass...19 out of 20 times!

By the way, you should also know that in order to get a tryout in Italy for a club (as an Italian), you need a "raccomandazione".

That means your dad needs to know someone important who can make a phone call. Even in a non-meritocracy, look at the players it produces.

Holland...well, someone should have put 2 and 2 together by now and realized that if their national team is too up its own arse to give its OK to licence its brand, then imagine why the Dutch players aren't so psyched about playing.

Then again, one only needs to remember WW2 to get an idea of how paltry Dutch nationalism actually is...

But I love Amsterdam. Long live the Dutch and their...um...boutiques.

MagicaRoma

04-12-2003, 05:47:PM

Originally posted by stonKed
My advice to all Holland vs. Italy arguing types is to try actually going and playing in those countries, rather than writing about it.

I have played in the UK, Holland and Italy and Italy has BY FAR the most talented player base in the world other than Brazil (even their embassy team of mostly ex race car drivers and polo players beat the heck out of us). It's not normal to see so many incredibly talented players in a European country, with superlative, ridiculous skills, in one country.

It's a fact. The problems with Italy are the politics behind the selections and the team strategy - if Capello was the national manager, you would see amazing changes in Italy's game - and the fact that few Italians understand the importance of team play over individual showmanship.

Good reply!!! But I hope Capello won't become the manager of the Azzuri......................because I want him to stay with La Magica (Roma)! I had my doubts last season when he made some (tactical) mistakes & played too defensively, but this season he just made us into a TEAM that plays attractive, attacking AND EFFECTIVE (SOMETHING THE DUTCH LOTS OF TIMES FORGET), not just 11 individuals! Grazie Cap!!

By the way, back to the topic (hmm, hmm), I DO miss the Dutch team in FIFA, it's a real shame, especially as there's no creation centre, in 2003 I could create it myself.

penappels

04-12-2003, 05:52:PM

the KNVB (dutch football association) are asking a lot of money from EA.. to put the Holland Casino Eredivisie(the official name of the dutch league) or the national team in the game.. 7 times as much as other leagues were.. asking..

MagicaRoma

04-12-2003, 05:56:PM

Originally posted by penappels
the KNVB (dutch football association) are asking a lot of money from EA.. to put the Holland Casino Eredivisie(the official name of the dutch league) or the national team in the game.. 7 times as much as other leagues were.. asking..

That's probably because they THINK they are 7 times better than the Serie A, Liga & Premiership!

penappels

04-12-2003, 06:03:PM

talented players in italy?? hmmz.. i don't agree with you.. not at all.. look at the selection of the italion squad.. there all 25+... is there any room for talents.. in italy the most of the players reach there top on the age of 28.. the team of holland that played against scotland had an average age of 23..
5 players were under the 20.. and the made the game to wat it became (6-0)
So don't talk sh*t about talents in holland..
and what you say about playing in all these countries??
you really think anyone believes that.. i don't say i don;t believe it.. but i find it rather sad if a skillfull soccerplayer.. talks on a FIFA2004 forum

MagicaRoma

04-12-2003, 06:09:PM

penappels

04-12-2003, 06:10:PM

Inzaghi is the biggest crap in the world as a player.. old players as Pele, Cruijff, Van Basten, Ziko.. all say he's falling star (schwalbe after schwalbe) very annoing beaviour.. it has nothing to do with football.. Milan has one good striker who fights for the squad.. Shevchenko!

penappels

04-12-2003, 06:12:PM

i agree.. with you there.. but use younger players.. there comes a time when players as nest, maldini and other old players will stop.. the new ones gotta have some experience.. otherwise the will not make it on the international stage..

penappels

04-12-2003, 06:16:PM

but there's a lot of talented youth.. walking around in the dutch league.. who hasnt got there chances in the national team yet..
Nigel de Jong (Ajax, scored against arsenal) John Heitinga (Very good last man, also Ajax).. Michael Lamey (Utrecht) Jan Kromkamp (AZ) Snoyl (Feyenoord)

de Boer, Cocu and vd Sar.. probably won't be joining the team at Euro 2004
Dick Advocaat anounced that

MagicaRoma

04-12-2003, 06:18:PM

I fully agree, but like I said before, I don't lik Trapatoni and with me lots of people. If he has the guts he takes Cassano & De Rossi to Euro2004, really THE 2 biggest talents I've seen for a very, very long time. I know I'm prejudiced as I am a Roma fan, but trust me, De Rossi is so complete in midfield, nowadays you have attacking OR defensive midfielders, he combines both. And Cassano, well, what he can do with a ball is amazing & unlike others, it's not just nice to watch but it is EFFECTIVE, something others lots of times don't have. He's allready called "the new Maradona" and if he can mature more, he'll be a future Ballon d'Or winner. Not for nothing ManUtd allready wants to spend E 35 million on him. (they can FORGET getting him by the way, he won't swap beautiful Rome for ugly Manchester).

MagicaRoma

04-12-2003, 06:20:PM

Originally posted by penappels
but there's a lot of talented youth.. walking around in the dutch league.. who hasnt got there chances in the national team yet..
Nigel de Jong (Ajax, scored against arsenal) John Heitinga (Very good last man, also Ajax).. Michael Lamey (Utrecht) Jan Kromkamp (AZ) Snoyl (Feyenoord)

Apart from the last 2 (don't really know them) I agree, especially De Jong & Heitinga impressed me a lot, they deserve a chance in the national team!

stonKed

04-12-2003, 07:29:PM

Originally posted by penappels
talented players in italy?? hmmz.. i don't agree with you.. not at all.. look at the selection of the italion squad.. there all 25+... is there any room for talents.. in italy the most of the players reach there top on the age of 28.. the team of holland that played against scotland had an average age of 23..
5 players were under the 20.. and the made the game to wat it became (6-0)
So don't talk sh*t about talents in holland..
and what you say about playing in all these countries??
you really think anyone believes that.. i don't say i don;t believe it.. but i find it rather sad if a skillfull soccerplayer.. talks on a FIFA2004 forum

Wow, what an inferiority complex. Which makes me laugh. I never said I was a skilled soccer player (but thanks for the compliment), I just said I have played in all those countries, and if you would like to know, as part of a company team, i.e. a team made up of the best players in a corporation (note I said we were beaten by the Brazilian Embassy, which should give you the idea that I wasn't referring to professionals. That said, we also play against some semi-pro teams). I am now a freelancer, which gives me time to browse the internet and play more soccer, both on the field and on the Xbox.

I looked into the thread because I was disappointed that Holland was missing, but I heartily disagree with the blinkered, biased and unfounded opinionating going on.

Forget the flag and have a bit of humble pie, non qualifiers.

americangreg

04-12-2003, 08:07:PM

HAHAHHAHAHA penappels, don't make me laugh.... Average age 23??? Holland a young team? You must be joking...

Average age of holland in the first match was somthing about 29,5 yrs... And for the return match they only changed 3 players, so the average age must still have been around the 26...

And when you look to U21 teams, Holland doesn't take any part on those tournaments. It are always the same teams that dominate those tournaments. Portugal, Spain, Italy...

Yeah, I'd say Italy's youngsters are better than the dutchies..

16Valve

04-12-2003, 08:29:PM

Hey, MagicaRoma, it was good of you to point out several ties that Holland also gave but I certainly *could* have picked out dozens more ties than I did (if you still want me to I can). I just chose to point out the 0-0 ties most.

Let's face it, the Italians are KNOWN for defensive football. It's part of their history. A legacy.

Maybe there's more goals scored in Serie A because most of the Premiership is crap. It's basically a three-team league every year.
Man U, Arsenal, and someone else. This year it's Chelsea. Sometimes Newcastle and Liverpool join in.
I'd say that the Serie A has more quality teams overall, top to bottom.
Saying that the Serie A scores more goals says nothing about Italian (team side) football overall. Holland has a history of attacking, creative football. Especially in the early 70's until the mid-80's. You could go waaaay back and find the same sort of scores for Italy.

I guess we can agree to disagree. Enough banging our heads against the wall. I hate Italian football, you hate your own team :p
I'd still like to see the dutch in FIFA. I suppose we can gree on that.