http://bbs.winning11.com.cn/UploadFile/20042913361091372.gif
Look at the movie above... what do some of you guys mean off-the-ball running does not work good enough :D
Watch the goalscorer... where he comes from! He makes a great run while the two strikers playing the ball around....
Just a matter of setting the attitude and strategies right (see my topic about it...) ;)

nice off ball run

that was offside :crazyboy:

Originally posted by ibo
that was offside :crazyboy:
yes. i am sure. OFFSIDE:rockman:

No, if you look closely he was level when the ball was played through. Tight, but definitely onside.

:o

Correct Kibble :)
But the reason for the movie was to proof that the off the ball running is excellent IMHO :) Do you guys agree?? ;)

Just to end the off-side discussion :)

lol :D
just jk :crazyboy:

Lol; great goal though Han:)

Not good enough to convince me, I think your offside :brow: :-paul: :jacko: :crazyboy:

And what says the eye-doctor about it? :D

great job han

Haha! Ebonix, with judgement like that are you a REAL ref then :D

Great wee goal by the way.

I have just been finding these things out in the game myself, guys running into defences and empty spaces without me having to press 8 buttons and turn the gamepad upside down etc, like in that OTHER game, provided I have downloaded the er PATCH to configure the gamepad buttons of course.

Smashing stuff this PES on PC is.

Oh yes I forgot something: I discovered another thing after making my pin-post ( http://www.soccergaming.tv/showthread.php?s=&threadid=90163 ) :
In order to make better runs off the ball you should not leave gaps between the lines. I mean, people tend to play their central defenders with attacking attitude arrow backwards, but then the gap to the middlefield is so big that players with attacking arrows forward still tend to hang on at the midfield to assist in that created gap... (is still somebody reading? :D ).
So set the attacking attitude of NO player at arrow backwards or the off the ball running will not work, simply because the side half is not joining the attack in time.

Another important thing: players with attacking arrows forward do their job better if the attacking skill (in the attributes) is at least 80 for midfielders and 75 for defenders (a rough guess of course).

Originally posted by brianm
Haha! Ebonix, with judgement like that are you a REAL ref then :D

I've refed a few games :crazyboy:

lolol.....take it up with the video panel....

Nice informative post, Han. We need more of this type of stuff around here.

As for the offsides, it's as tight as can be, but you made it! You had good, smart refs that game.

I'm assuming you won the game!

I assume that run was made by R2 or L1?

Off the ball running by my computer teammates has always frustrated me in PES - mainly when I get a 2 on 1 or, more frequently, 3 on 2 and the strikers just don't make sensible runs. 1-2s are always an option, but in real life you'd expect to be able to set a striker through from these situations.

However, sometimes I see some remarkable movements. Yesterday, on the ball deep with my DM, I noticed a striker make a sudden movement on the radar. A chipped through ball set him free. On replay, I realised he'd beaten the offside trap by stepping into his half and running along the halfway line until I passed the ball.

There may be imperfections, but who am I to complain?

No, the run was not made by R2 or L1, just passing around quickly and use good strategies and attacking settings. Also I did not use any 1-2, as I told you in one of the previous posts.
As you see, Wilco, no reason to be frustrated by the computer teammates; they did a good job :)

Yes Paco, I won the game 3-1 and it was at level 4.
(I received your PM, BTW)

Originally posted by Han
Correct Kibble :)
But the reason for the movie was to proof that the off the ball running is excellent IMHO :) Do you guys agree?? ;)

no, becuase you can't tell them WHEN you want them to make a run, also the passing system often picks the wrong guy when players are making a run in tight space.

Occasionaly, like this replay you get lucky and the computer actually makes a run when you want it to. Also with star players they will act smarter and make more/better runs so it's almost good enough with those kind of players.

You can also tweak the formations and offense/defence attitudes to help but if they simply had a button for player runs you wouldent need to do this all the time and hope you get lucky.

I have many opportunities in every game where if only they would have decided to make a run I would have an easy shot on goal.

Very sorry to read your reply, Keemo.
If you start with arguements like "Occasionaly, like this replay you get lucky and the computer actually makes a run when you want it to", you look like runned out of arguments, after seeing the proof that off-the-ball running is very good possible.
If you want to decide yourself who runs you should play FIFA.
In real life you can say to a player he should run, but you can't steer him. You depend on your teammates who wants to run, just like in this game.

Originally posted by Keemo
Also with star players they will act smarter and make more/better runs so it's almost good enough with those kind of players.

Isnt that a true reflection of real football?
I mean guys like Scholes and Nedved make great late runs and get the goals to prove it, a big part of their game is their off the ball running.
Poorer players dont have the footballing intelligence to make the right runs.

Originally posted by Han

In real life you can say to a player he should run, but you can't steer him. You depend on your teammates who wants to run, just like in this game. Great point.

showing a single example where a guy makes a good run does not mean that there are not many, many examples where he does not make a run, even when there is a blatantly obvious run to be made into a big empty space that even the worst footballer in the world would know to make

yes, the game does sometimes make some great moves but it also plays like complete crap sometimes

one swallow does not a summer make

You seem to have no idea what you are talking about... nice start for a first post :rolleyes: I say it again, just watch where the scorer starts his run; that is NO obvious space to run at. If you are so urgent to proove your wrong point, you may find this not a good game to play. Mayby the wrong forum? ;)

When did I ever say I wanted to STEER the player? I dont know how you keep making this stuff up. I just want him to run!!! that's all, just be offence minded, 50% of the time they act like they are sleeping when there is open space, which goes back to my point about the superstar players, they are more offence minded in PES3 but in real life EVERY hard working player makes runs and TRIES his best to get open, doesent mean he will score but he TRIES HARD. Superstars in real life make less mistakes and have more creativity and the ability to make thier own chances, they don't do MORE runs/positioning just becuase they are a superstar.

All I want is the ability to tell a player to go on a run, I dont care what freaking direction he goes, I DONT WANT TO STEER HIM, I just want him to run into open areas, that should be very simple. If we were playing a game and I had the ability to tell my players WHEN to run but you didnt, I gurantee I would beat you or atleast have more shots on goal.

I know you have already made up your mind that PES3 is 100% perfect so I'm done talking to you about this. You act like I don't like PES becuase I think it has some fualts, well your wrong. I'm just mature enough to look at PES3 objectivly and acknowledge both it's fualts and it's good points.

There is a difference between a comment and a comment, so to say. The way you made yours asked for a reaction like mine.
Like "showing a single example where a guy makes a good run does not mean that there are not many, many examples where he does not make a run, even when there is a blatantly obvious run to be made into a big empty space that even the worst footballer in the world would know to make"
Following by the "crap" statement..... it could have put milder for somebody who post his first one, especially the comment about the big empty space said me that you intentionally exaggerated.... Not to mention your second post, which was plain aggressive :rolleyes:

man, han, you need to relax about this.

all he said was: for every run a player might make there is at least one situation (if not more) where the player stands around like a jerk an doesn't do the obvious... what gets you so upset about this? we've talked about this particular shortcoming of PES about 10 million times and even the most ardent PES lover will agree that this should be improved upon.

as for the matter i agree hands down with keemo... at least give me an OPTION to induce runs... nobody is talking about steering... if you feel like that's unworthy of your style of playing, or it doesn't happen in real life then DON'T USE that option. but many people (myself included) would find pleasure in making calculated off-the-ball runs (because it's part of football) and why should we not be given this option. it would really not hurt anyone, or would it?

nice video and great play by the way, but anyone noticed how that **** fifa game they ref dont blow the whistle for offside til the player ran all the way down for the ball, **** ea seriously

Originally posted by simakperrce
man, han, you need to relax about this.

all he said was: for every run a player might make there is at least one situation (if not more) where the player stands around like a jerk an doesn't do the obvious... what gets you so upset about this? we've talked about this particular shortcoming of PES about 10 million times and even the most ardent PES lover will agree that this should be improved upon.

as for the matter i agree hands down with keemo... at least give me an OPTION to induce runs... nobody is talking about steering... if you feel like that's unworthy of your style of playing, or it doesn't happen in real life then DON'T USE that option. but many people (myself included) would find pleasure in making calculated off-the-ball runs (because it's part of football) and why should we not be given this option. it would really not hurt anyone, or would it?

blah blah blah its no big deal they will probably fix it this year get over it, Its not as bad as most EA short comings

Han I've always found your tactical posts helpful, but how you can possibly make comments like this...

You seem to have no idea what you are talking about... nice start for a first post I say it again, just watch where the scorer starts his run; that is NO obvious space to run at. If you are so urgent to proove your wrong point, you may find this not a good game to play. Mayby the wrong forum?... I really don't understand.

So your argument is: he's new, therefore his opinion doesn't matter, and one short video clip totally proves your point.

And who's the one being aggressive?

i may be a new member but i have been viewing this forum for long enough to know about Han's closed mind

it seems to me that there are 2 types of people of this forum:

1) those who like the game (we all like the game, that's why we visit here) but are open minded to the good and the bad aspects of the game, want to see improvements and so prefer to discuss the weaknesses in the gameplay in the hope that they will be fixed in the future

2) those who cannot accept any criticism of the game and so when anyone points out a flaw in the game, they feel impelled to jump to it's defence, deny the flaw exists, insist the game is near as damn it perfection (and therefore, presumably in no need of improvement) and then for some reason, find it necessary to drag FIFA into the argument...if I wanted to discuss FIFA, I'd be across in the FIFA forum

The clip you show, Han, shows some great gameplay. That is not "proof" that there are not some terribly weak moments of play. We all play the game and are capable of making our own minds up about what we see with our own eyes.

I doubt very much that in the year 2020, we'll all be looking back at PES3 and saying it has perfect gameplay, no need to buy PES20.

Originally posted by LTJ
Han I've always found your tactical posts helpful, but how you can possibly make comments like this...

... I really don't understand.

So your argument is: he's new, therefore his opinion doesn't matter, and one short video clip totally proves your point.

And who's the one being aggressive?

I think you interpret it a bit too black/white :D
I got problems with the way he wrote his first post and after that he even started to shout at me. But maybe I was too sensitive about the way he said it ( I explained in detail what I ment, so I do not repeat that now). Maybe I was too sensitive because I tried to make a point with this topic about off the ball running.
I found it an important point because I did see it as injust to the game.
But if all of you think he reacted normal (apart from the start of his 2nd post of course) than that's okay with me. Sorry for the consternation :o

Originally posted by aqua
i may be a new member but i have been viewing this forum for long enough to know about Han's closed mind

it seems to me that there are 2 types of people of this forum:

1) those who like the game (we all like the game, that's why we visit here) but are open minded to the good and the bad aspects of the game, want to see improvements and so prefer to discuss the weaknesses in the gameplay in the hope that they will be fixed in the future

2) those who cannot accept any criticism of the game and so when anyone points out a flaw in the game, they feel impelled to jump to it's defence, deny the flaw exists, insist the game is near as damn it perfection (and therefore, presumably in no need of improvement) and then for some reason, find it necessary to drag FIFA into the argument...if I wanted to discuss FIFA, I'd be across in the FIFA forum

The clip you show, Han, shows some great gameplay. That is not "proof" that there are not some terribly weak moments of play. We all play the game and are capable of making our own minds up about what we see with our own eyes.

I doubt very much that in the year 2020, we'll all be looking back at PES3 and saying it has perfect gameplay, no need to buy PES20.


I agree, for example, something that really pisses me off..probably the only thing really...is the referees... They are too sensible in calling the fouls...sometimes I don't even touch the player and I get called, while the computer fouls and gets nothing. I feel as if I have to already be sliding 10 min before the player gets there in order for a foul not to be called...but other than that the game is great:)

I only got miffed becuase you put words in my mouth (the steering BS) anyway, I stand by my comments pertaining to the game, talk about what you want but i'm taking myself out of this discussion for my own good.:rolleyes: