[I just wanted to put most of my thought's on England's dire performance, and their 'future' into one post]

IMO England were the worst team at Euro 2000. I don't think we stringed together more than 5 passes all tournament, and I'm sure even Slovenia, and Zlatko Zahovic in particular, would have had a field day with the Nevilles and the England defense. I'm very depressed right now, but we have to look to the future, and here are my thoughts on what England should do - please feel free to agree, disagree, or add to my coments - in fact I'd like to hear some of your ideas too (if you care about England, if not....why are you reading this post? http://www.soccergaming.com/ubb/smile.gif).

1st - Keegan has to be fired. The man has never won anything as a manger - nothing, just a FIRST DIVISION title - wooo! Wow, perhaps Peter Reid should be England manager then! This is the man who blew a 12 point lead over Manchester United at Newcastle, and he's now made England exactly what Newcastle were - bloody entertaining....if you're not a Newcastle supporter. I used to love watching Keegan's magpies - because they'd always throw caution to the wind, score goals, but end up losing. So first, Keegan OUT!

Now the FA has to get on their hands and knees and beg Terry Vennables to come back - at Euro 96 we were a cohesive, continental-style (that means we could string 5+ passes together) team.

Now here's the big drawback of Neutral's plan - we're going to miss the 2002 World Cup. Yep. Why? Because the QUALITY YOUNGSTERS are going to be playing for England - Ince, Shearer, Adams, Keown,little harsh on the last two but that's the way it has to be) Seaman, Batty, Wise, the Nevilles, Nicky Butt, Jamie Carragher, David James, aren't to be allowed anywhere near the England squad.

Instead, we're going to play a 3-5-2, and STICK WITH A 3-5-2 (with two subtle variations) - even if we lose our first game to Armenia, we still play with the 3-5-2 (got it?).

Nigel Martyn will be in goal, Richard Wright and Nicky Weaver will be backups.

Our defense will comprise of Rio Ferdinand, Sol Campbell (our new Captain), and Johnathon Woodgate (unless he's in jail http://www.soccergaming.com/ubb/frown.gif). All three are, big, strong, confident, and mobile. On the bench will be Wes Brown, Ledley King, Matthew Upson and Gareth Barry.

On the right side of midfield will be Steve McManaman - his 'back-up' will be dynamite Kieron Dyer - both will provide REAL wingers who can cause havoc down the touchlines.

On the inside right of midfield will be David Beckham - he will have no backup because unless he dies or has his legs amputated that will be HIS position - here David can spray his beautiful 40 yard passes, but not be confined to the wing.

In the middle and the left inside will be two of: Steven Gerrard, Joe Cole, Frank Lampard Jr, Lee Bowyer, and Paul Scholes. My pairings would be #1 Gerrard and Cole, and #2 Lampard and Bowyer - you pair a ball winner (who's also a capable passer) with a finesse player who can also spray some probing through balls. Scholes would come on if England were behind to play a 3-5-2 but with him playing just behind the front two (more of a 3-4-1-2). Jody Morris can also try to stake his place.

On the left will be me, because I am the only left footed Englishman.....ok just kidding (I'm right footed). Here will be John Harley - don't laugh, he has great poise for a youngster. Backing him can be Lee Hendrie, and Gareth Barry - who can be an attacking player too.

Upfront will be...(wait for it)
Robbie Fowler and Emile Heskey. Now I know Heskey was INCREDIBLY bad at Euro 2000 - I was embarassed to have him wear an England shirt - but mark my words, he has incredible potential - just watch the game against Argentina. And I know Houllier will mould him into a supporting striker who can hold up the ball - think Teddy Sheringham...but with muscles. http://www.soccergaming.com/ubb/smile.gif Robbie is the most natural goalscorer England have - ask any Premiership manager - Arsene Wenger for instance. Backing him up will be Andy Campbell (Middlesborough), Owen, Bridges and Philips.

So we play this side in Euro qualifying - we'll probably not make World Cup 2002 - and you know what, that's fine by me. I don't want England to go there and embarass us the way the did at Euro 2000. Instead the young players will gain valuable experience. In two years Joe Cole and Steven Gerrard will emerge as ONE OF the (legitimately) best midfield combos in World football We'll make Euro 2004 - get to the semis. Then show up at World Cup 2006 - as LEGITIMATE contenders - no fluke trips to the quarter finals, or semi finals - I want England to play ATTRACTIVE football and be legitimate favourites, not favourites because of the hype. Joe Cole will be 24, Steve Gerrard, Lampard, and Owen will be 26 and in the prime of their careers. I'm not saying we'll win, but we'll be LEGITIMATELY a good team, not 'because we're England' but because we can play football - not kick and run.

Unfortunately, I'm dreaming because this will NEVER, EVER happen - why? Because of the stupid English press and media and the dumb-@ss F.A. who can never think long term, no must be short term always - like the way we play; we could work the ball around slowly and maintain posession, but NO, instead we boot it upfield to try and get a quick result - and then Figo picks the top corner.

The press won't settle for not qualifying for 2006, but if my idea sounds silly, there was another team that missed out on a World Cup, but they played their youth, two years later they got to the semi finals of the Euro Championships, and two years after that they WON the World Cup.....they were France.

Any thoughts? Comments? Like I said, this will never happen - the FA and the press are too stupid to realise.

Well i agree with most of what u said there also the fact that it aint gonna happen...

as an Aussie who supports the mighty Everton(cue laughter) since i was 7 i generally support england in major tournaments like this and geez did i lose money England were so bad it wasnt funny it seems they have gone backward since Euro 96 and France 98

first of i agree Keegan must go he does not have the ability to coach england the trademark of newcastle was evident for all to see..defence totally disorganised how a manager can make players like Campbell,Adams and Keown for that fact look ordinary is extremely bad although they must take some of the blame the nevilles should both be dropped unless they regain their form and confidence at club level.

And why o why wasnt kevin phillips in the team??? Heskey is not good enough like Teddy i dont think so teddy was/is a smart player and could also SCORE which Heskey seems to find difficult at club and international level and Shearer what can i say that hasnt already been said his retirement is a good thing as he is not the player he once was and i think he knows that maybe he should have stood down before euro 2000 i think he did his country no favours by selfishly playing when he knows that he hasnt quite got it anymore you only have to watch footage of Shearer in his prime to see that fact
As for the midfield well Beckham is class Englands best player by a mile but needs to convert himself into someone like rui costa or player to fit into scholes spot behind the front two so he needs to score more basically but scholes is good enough as well i thought he played well also but i think he would be better suited to an out and out striker than midfield ummm ince has had it wise isnt good enough Mcmanaman has improved by leaps and bounds in Madrid but his problem apart from playing for Liverpool ehehe is he cant hit water if he fell out a boat where was nick barmby noone on the left and barmby playing there all season cant get in good one keegan!!!
The youth must come in arrange some friendlies agaisnt weak teams and blood the youngsters like joe cole etc etc england must play the for the long term as there is not much hope for the short term
Also watching england play and seeing their problems down the left i was lamenting the stupid choice of one Ryan Giggs an England under 15 who chose to play for Wales he would have had 100 caps by now and englands midfield problems would be solved by the way no insult regarded to the Welsh who would probably beat england too hehehe

Drinky, Schumacher - any thoughts?

Yes indeed.

New manager then. Terry Venables is off to Libya, so that one would be out of the window http://www.soccergaming.com/ubb/frown.gif My own choice would be Peter Taylor. While he was in charge of the U21 team he turned them into world-beaters - he would be able to pick the same players for the full side and bring them on in the same way. Its about time we had a cohesive policy whereby a future England manager first takes charge of the U21 side and then as they graduate to the senior side, takes over the reins. Peter Taylor's partnership of Cort and Heskey was truly frightening - could this be the man to get the most out of 'Bruno'?

3-52 is a must. Quite frankly, sod David Beckham. If we play as a one man team, then its not surprising that we get beaten. Look at the evidence - we play 4-4-2 and lose comprehensively in Euro 2000. We play the Ukraine with 3-5-2 and look very solid indeed in midfield, winning 2-0.

No arguments about the keepers. Also look to Steve Simonsen, even if he does butter his Merseyside bread on the blue side.

Rio, Sol, Woodgate - solid, confident, dependable. Ledley King would be a strong contender too, but you've covered that base already http://www.soccergaming.com/ubb/smile.gif Right wing back I'd be tempted to say Dyer alone and save McManaman for a central role where he can decide for himself which side of defence is weaker and then exploit it. Left side of the field is Jon Harley - Seth Johnson as backup.

Centre of midfield you need solid possesion and passing. Gerrard can win the ball, Beckham can deliver, Lampard can keep the ball. It may not be too late for Jamie Redknapp to realise his potential and to provide some experience, and Scholes and Joe Cole would add more bite from the bench.

Up front... As I said before if you had Peter Taylor as manager you would have to have Carl Cort and Emile Heskey paired - the two looked world class at youth level. herwise, a Fowler-Owen partnership is hard to argue against. No complaints about Andy Campbell either - he plays with a poise and an eye for goal. Bridges too should get a chance. Phillips should be made to prove next season that he is not just a flash in the pan.

Like you said, we would finally have a team of players who don't need to kick and run, who don't have to rely on being built llike a brick hithouse, or using brute force, but instead playing the kind of football that has taken France, in four short years, from non-qualifiers for USA 94 to World Champions. As you said though, the tabloid media don't want to know about long term, they spout nonsense about how results would embarrass us and let the country down. (By the way, not all the media have the short-term thing - Oliver Holt in the Times has basically been saying lots of what we have been for a while now). The means would justify the ultimate end in July 2006 as Steven Gerrard lifts the FIFA World Cup trophy at New Wembley.

Lads, I have been in Trinidad for the last week and unable to access a computer but today I have; and I CAN'T WAIT TO GET HOME TO TOBAGO AND MASTICATE ON THIS POST BY MY FRIEND NEUTRAL AND THE REPLY TO MY MATE DRINKY. I only have a few seconds but it's incredible the intellectual deceit practised by these two. Neutral, you hammered me when I yelled that the signs were obvious that Adams and Keown were eroding and now you echo these thoughts. I screamed that Heskey is a non-scoring striker, and now you echo these thoughts. I shouted that Owen had a poor season and was not in the right form to be selected, and you speak about his prime. I can't believe you guys. Why are you so determined to create a "liverPOOL" of players from which England must select. Owen was pathetic. Gerrard shows no potential FROM HIS TWO APPEARANCES ( COLE'S five subsitute opportunities SEEM TO AFFORD you and others AN OPINION ON HIM ). Fowler is about as natural a goalscorer as everyone else is. What is a natural goalscorer? That's one of those cliches tossed in the air to make an unarticulated point. Enough of this ................I have to go to court. When I get home I'll ventilate the rest of my thoughts on these shameless posts

Keep Keegan.

In 3-5-2 play....

R. Ferdinand M. Keown J. Woodgate

Mcmanaman Beckham Scholes(c) Dyer Gerrard

Fowler Owen

Neutral - I agree in the main with what you say, but would dispute that we were the worst team in the tournament. Germany were far worse, for example, beaten by the Portugal B team! I agree Kev should be fired. He said "The FA hired me worts and all". We all saw the worts, but was there anything else?!? I remember hearing just after Hoddle in the qualification match against Bulgaria a pundit say "One thing about Hoddle was he always played it safe away from home and got the results." That was after England blew their one goal lead...
Here's the squad of the future, the way we should stick... Martyn in goals, and I'd have to say a backline of Ferdinand, Campbell and Thatcher. Maybe Woodgate, we have to see where Ben Thatcher goes after Wimbledon. Dyer and Becks streaking down the wing, with Macca in the centre paired with Scholes. Then, we should have Emile Heskey playing BEHIND the front two. He would supply balls to them and set them up. Scholes could also play this role, and Gerrard the role I just mentioned Scholes in. Up front - has to Fowler and Owen. Sure Owen had a bad tournament, but he has a great eye for goal. Fowleris a great player too.
As for the manager, I'd say perhaps John Gregory? I don't know, maybe Wilkinson?

Neutral - I asked Arsene Wenger and his answer was Henry and not Fowler. When mentioning that it should be an englishman he said it has to Overmars. I eventually gave up.

All in all, not a bad plan, albeit flawed.
And yes, England were dreadful, as someone else mentioned, they looked like a bunch of players brought together for a kickabout in the park

Hi. I know I have not been on this forum recently. But I feel as if I should say some things.

First .... To see you England fans turn against your own is appaling. Yes the Neville Bros did not deserve to be on the team, yes England did not make the second round, but ..... to turn on your players who gave their hearts for their country, is stupid. It is ridiculous, it is treason. In the hour your team needs the most support, you turn against them. Did Brasil turn against their team when France embarrased them?? Did Scotland turn on their team when they were beaten?? Will Denmark and the Czech Republic turn on their teams??? No. Yet, you do. When Beckham was sent off, you hounded him mercilessly. Now, I presume that Phil will be hounded the same way. Why?? For a mistake?? For not prolonging the inevitible?? I have the feeling, that unless England made it to the finals, this team was going to be under severe attack. England deserved to lose.

Second .... you have it all wrong. No amount of tweaking with England's lineup will ever make any difference. Even though Shearer's retirement finally opens up the door for some decent strikers, it still will not help. Whether they play a 3-5-2 or a 4-4-2 or a 1-5-4 ... it still will not matter. They where destined to lose and they will never win another tournament until they realize ONE thing.

Would you like to know what that is???

THEY CANNOT PLAY PROPER FOOTBALL. It is that simple. Since the day they invented football (The only good contribution they have made to society along with the English language.) the English style of play has been one -dimensional. Just bang the ball in and hope that Alan Shearer or some other idiot gets his head to the ball for a weak attempt at goal. Look at Holland, look at France, Spain, Portugal (keep a very close eye on Portugal) and the old German and Italian teams .... look at how they loved the ball. How they would KEEP the ball (KEY WORD BEING KEEP) and find a way through their opponents defence with crisp passes and movement. Such beautiful control and talent and creativity. Gorgeous passes ON THE GROUND and solid control of the midfield. Keeping possession and proving that the age old adage (HE WHO CANNOT GET THE BALL, CANNOT SCORE) is still true. A defence that ATTACKS and does not depend on other team to be so intimidated, that they will forget about their own game and play England's style. Look at England on Tuesday. Such ugly football. So deviod of any creativity and innovation. Just bang the ball in and hope for the best. No wonder they were eliminated. No wonder they sucked. Look at Portugal, no wait ... Portugal's reserves destroy Germany. Granted, this is not the same Germany from 1996. The old Germany would laugh at the idea of England beating them. This Germany was lace with problems(Any team who's star striker is Beirhoff is screwed as much as England w/ Shearer) And look at England. The way they have played since 1966. Not one title. They cannot play. They have no immagination. I cannot say that they have no talent. They do. England has a 20 year old superstar who has more pace and talent in his little finger than rest of the English starters combined. Yet, his midfield is so hopeless that they cannot fathom the brainpower to think of a way to get him the ball. All they do is give it to another midfielder who can cross the ball and do little else in free play. Or they might give the ball to a striker who can do so little with it, that he falls over and cries foul if he cannot hold up the defence. If Owen was on a team like Portugal or Italy or Holland or France, he would have 5 goals by now, probably a World Cup and a EURO 2000 Cup by the end of this summer. Look at France. Nico, ZeZu, and Henry. Holland. Zenden, Overmars, and Davids. Portugal. Figo, Nuno Gomes, and Rui Costa. How they can break a defense down by THREATENING to run with the ball. Can England's midfielders do that?? Strike such terror into opponents that they back away in fear of being left behind in a cloud of dust and humiliation?? Aside from Macca, who else??? All the "Boy Wonder" has been given during his tenure with England is a back seat to a striker who's game is so useless and ineffective that he has not scored one goal by himself this tournament, and to a midfielder who is the MOST OVERHYPED PLAYER, aside from Del Piero, in all the world. On the bench sat Macca, Robbie Fowler and Kevin Phillips. Two superstar strikers and one unbelievably talented midfielder who define proper football, yet, they do not define "English football". On other teams, these four players; Owen, Fowler, Macca, and Phillips; would have a midfield and defence that would conujure up such innovative and deadly passes, that they would never ever dream of playing for a team like England. And, instead of brining them on, Keegan instead took out Owen, and brought on Heskey. Why?? Because this is Alan Shearer's last tournament?? Because English football is aerial football?? Shearer did nothing on Tuesday. Nothing all tournament. Gifted with a German defence that resembled Swiss cheese, and not the steel wall that used to patrol the German half, he scored. When Paul Ince, the best player England had on Tuesday, was hauled down, up strode Shearer to calmly put the ball in the net. Credited with a goal he did not win, he did not deserve. Yesterday, all English fans cried as though they expected England to win this tournament. In a field that is loaded with such teams, England actually expected to qualify. HA!! Their group, Group A, consisted of Germany, Romania and Portugal. Undoubtedly, England has more talent than all of those teams. England is a much better team on paper. The game vs Portugal, the "Brasilians of Europe" (I love that nickname), "stunned" them. "STUNNED???" Really??? Why?? Portugal does not have more talent than England, yet Portugal ran circles around them. WHY?? They prove my point beautifully. They play better football. The teams that are in the quarter-finals play better football. So if you disagree with me, just get a tape of Portugal v England and watch it again. Or of Holland v France yesterday, Brasil v Holland in USA 94, France v England in Wembly last year. Old tapes of the great Brasilians of the fifties, sixties, 1970 and now. The Flying Dutchmen of the seventies. The Azzuri in 1982. Germany in 1990 and again in 1996. And, when you have watched all of these games, if you still do not believe me, still do not understand my point, then get a reality check.

GO HOLLAND!!! GO PORTUGAL!!! WIN THAT TROPHY! Play the game like it should be played. With with style, with creativity .... with beauty.

LOL

antithesis - I was wondering where you were!
Glad to have you back.

'intellectual deceit' - I enjoyed that one. http://www.soccergaming.com/ubb/smile.gif

So when did I say Heskey was a goalscorer - all along I've said he's a supporting striker - when did I say that his strength was scoring goals? Watch the game against Argentina, watch his performances for Leceister where he made Tony Cottee look 10 years younger.

Owen will be at his prime when he's 26, but even now he's better than Andy Cole ever was or ever will be - ask 10 Manchester United fans who'd they'd want in their team - Andy Cole or Michael Owen - I think you'd see the vast majority pull for the boy wonder. You don't believe he's any good - Didier Deschamps and Rui Costa both said they think Owen is one of the most dangerous players at Euro 2000 (Unfortunately, the underestimated the 'crapness' of the majority of the England team) - at Euro 2000 he didn't have the service or the support that striker needs.

As Keown and Adams - I still believe they're both good - read my post 'little harsh on the last two' - but with many younger defenders coming up I think England need to turn to youth and Adams and Keown will be sacrificed.

"Why are you so determined to create a "liverPOOL" of players from which England must select" - why are you so determined to make every LIVERPOOL player seem like a piece of sh!t?

I named 27 players - FOUR (!), 4, FOUR OF THEM PLAY FOR LIVERPOOL. Why do you make it sound like I mentioned 16 or 17 Liverpool players?

Andy Cole - 62 Premiership Goals in 137 games for United - 45.2% Strike Rate

Michael 'Crap' Owen - 37 Premiership Goals in 68 games for Liverpool - 54.4% Strike Rate

Robbie 'Crap' Fowler - 106 Premiership Goals in 185 games for Liverpool - 57.2% Strike Rate

One of those three has been getting service from Beckham, Keane and Giggs. The other two (apart from this year where both were injured for most of the season) got service from Ince, McAteer, Collymore - and the only decent player - McManaman.

But what do I know - Owen and Fowler are crap right?

antithesis,
you said you had to 'go to court' - are you a lawyer? or a law clerk? a criminal (JUST KIDDING!) or just got summoned for jury duty?
(I ask this question in all seriousness)

my future england team:
Martyn
dyer keown campbell harley
beckham wise(c) lampard macmnaman
fowler scholes

No way in hell does England have more talent than Romania or Portugal. England's players may be good in the EPL but they suck anywhere else. The modern game is all about technique and England with the exception of Owen and one or two other players does not have it.

MmwM5

Then you haven't seen those young players I mentioned - this season's revaltion will be Joe Cole - he's 18, plays for West Ham and he WILL be one of the best players in the world very soon. Watch young Keiron Dyer - he's dynamite!

Neutral, nice to see an England fan take an objective look at the England effort.
Im with you, Keiron Dyer should be in that team and Beckham should be given a chance to become an influential creative midfielder rather than just a guy who crosses the ball. Gerrard davis should have started all the games, Seaman, Adams, Ince and Shearer should never have been there ( not a very good backbone to a team anymore...)
Im a Man utd fan from way back and even I cant understand how the Neville Brothers made the squad.
At least with Venebles England played with flair and could pass the ball and control the tempo of the game.
Whats really worrying is if you look at the top half dozen teams in the premier league, how many of them are Englishmen?

The main reason England went out is the defence right?

The midfield did appauling too.
The English Euro 2000 defence was pure crap except maybe Keown, who even still was caught napping when England played Germany.

First people here in this forum say; Oh, Campbell future captain, solid, blah blah.
Sure in World Cup 98 he did well, but the Euro he played terrible.
He couldn't trap the ball properly , left men unmarked and Romania's first goal was set up by a deflected ball off Campbell, who didn't make an attempt to go in for the ball, and well the Romanian took it from there and slotted in off the post and past poor Martyn.

So Cambpell; ashamed of his performance( crap in otherwords )
Nevilles well all I can say is I never saw Phil as an international player. Le Saux could do a better job. Gary just never proved anything to me after Euro 96.
Keown was the guy saving the defence from trouble many times against Germany and Romania, but one man can't do the job.

Sorry, but Martyn I would still put in over Seaman even after the second Romanian goal instant.
Why? Well why would a goalie need to come out, when he shouldn't have to, and punch the ball away and try scramble back in goal, because the defence was not capable or he didn't have confidence they'd stop the attack.

I will post another message on the midfield.

Defence needs to change completely maybe exception of Keown.

You guys do not get it. England's reason for going out was not defensive capability at all. They lost because they do not know how to play football. They may have 11 talented players, but those players cannot play TOGETHER as a cohesive unit. Instead, they just kick the ball in the air, and hope for someone to latch onto it. In the mean time, Mr Owen stands unused and unappreciated. Robbie and Kevin lie on the bench unused. Until England restructures thier offensive plan, they will never win a major sporting event.

*sigh* ... perhaps my point falls on deaf ears. Never mind.

We do understand what you're saying - but their passing style this tournament was a testament to Keegan's poor managerial style.

More than half of this team played at the last World Cup and there England played a much more attractive style of football (ie, they could string together more than 5 passes).

england lost for two simple reasons:

1- poor tactics: keegan was unable to stop the opposition tactically, happened in all three games and it was a matter of how good the opposition strikers are.

2- players where picked to the team by names not form, i mean the likes of shearer, seaman, ince all shouldn't have been in the first team at least cause they all had poor seasons, instead chanc should've been given to the likes of phillips,gerrard even lee bowyer and jonathan woodgate cause they all had a brilliant season.

these players r competing in one of the best leagues in the world and against so many world class stars and they've done well, but at the end of the day u need to play as a team to win a match!

Why do people comment so much on this team?, I mean England?, they are no team, they are nothing, they are hopeless and always will be, what more is there to say?

The reason why we're commenting so much is because they WILL (or rather should be) one of the best sides in the world in the next five years based on the performance of the Under 21 squad which, under Howard Wilkinson, has now imploded into long-ball farce.

so, as I see, you want youngsters on your team???

Owen, Barry, Heskey, Wright...

Do you know why France is so good?
'cause they got a lot of 30-year olds who can turn things around on the field, who have a good leadership skills, who can finish safely (you won't worry if a player of that calibre will miss the open net or not).


England needs players like Zidane, Dessaily, Blanc, Djorkaeff, or Italy's Fuser, Maldini, others too who do not give up when they are down.


a strong minus of having youngsters on your team is that they don't have a lot of experience, or that they are too young to play the whole game without any fatigue, or that there is a strong possibility that they would not finish a good attack.


Shearer was that kind of player.
Now he's gone.
Who comes to his place?


and i see that you want to get rid of veterans???
Except Martyn, the oldest player you have is McManaman (28 years old), then it's Campbel (26), and then it's Beckham (24), Fowler (24) and others are just teenagers (criminal Woddgate, Gareth Barry, Joey Cole, Gerrard)

And about Wes brown and Ledley King:

who the hell are they???

Ledley King didn't play much for Spurs last season, and the same goes to Brown with Manchester United.


So, if your team would play France, it would loose badly.


I don't care about the formation ,but:

Martyn should be in goal
Sol Campbell -- one of best defenders in Premiership. heart of Spurs' defense.
Martin Keown -- very experienced defender. Commits less mistakes than those teenagers.
Gary Neville -- the best defender in Manu.

others:

Beckham -- best crosser in the world. right midfielder, but he can play almost anywhere
McManaman -- right winger
Scholes
Lee Bowyer -- although I hate him so much, I still think he's a good soccer player. can play almost on any side too.

left winger -- i don't know


forwards:

Kevin Phillips -- that's the guy I am talking about -- he has got a great leadership skills. Can finish, can shoot, can pass. Deserves a place in England's squad. Not everyone can score 31 goals in the Premiership.

Michael Owen -- the youngster that truly deserves a place in England's squad. the best striker right now in England. Will get better from year to year.


their backup should be Emile Heskey -- a fast striker, who will grow into a great leadership player in the future.

So, as you say, England should get rid of their veterans, and give the road to youngsters...

the squad I think is England's best is already young.

and if you want to add king, Brown, Harley and Morris to England's squad, then what about Stephen Clemence, Luke Young, Mathiew Etherington, Robert Wolleaston, John Terry, Michael Twiss, Johnathan Greening and other young players that England has???


P.S.
i thought Hendrie was scottish...he is English?

Wow, these have to be the longest postings I've ever seen. Keep at it folks!

I'll put this offline and then read it with time...won't have to buy my newspaper today http://www.soccergaming.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

Lets organize our thoughts and start with the defence. Perhaps we could come up with a Fifa 2000 Forum 'Dream Team'. Lets start with 3-5-2. Then we can get a concensus...

Who does everyone want to play....

GK -
D-
D-
D-

Scrap the English defence, they are pure crap! This is the team that can score a great 5 goals in three matches, but concede 6!
Nevilles sorry goodbye!
Campbell what happened you've changed from a strong, solid World Cup defender to a pathetic defender who leaves men unmarked, can't trap balls properly and needs to have Keown or Martyn or even Seaman to bail him out. That first Romanian goal was deflected off him and set up the Romanian to hit the ball off the post and in. That was another screw up by Campbell that I can remember well.
He just performed better in the World Cup, but the Euro 2000 performance was crap!

Bottom line: try out Barry or other players, because they have to better than what we've got!

Yeah.

The Neville brothers should NEVER play for England again.

Gareth Southgate proved to me that he is just as crap as he always was.

Martin Keown impressed me to a degree, but at times he seemed woefully SLOW to the ball.

I want to see Barry, Ferdinand, a BETTER Campbell, Kieron Dyer, and Jonathan Woodgate in the defence. Then Keegan can pick from the 3 or 4 best of that lot.

Screw Tony Adams. He's old, injured, and NOT captain material.

NO NO NO!!!

You guys just certainly do not get it. Let me try to explain this to you. No amount of tweaking and/or replacing with Enlgand's starting 11 will ever help them. Whether the Neville Bros play or not. Even if Paolo Maldini and Jaap Stam suddenly find out they are English, it will not help their defence. Whether you put Mr Overrated (Beckham) in central midfield or leave his sorry butt out on the wing will not matter. The only player who can save England is the one who destroyed them, and that is Luis Figo.

How you ask?? Well .... Look at what Figo represents for Portugal. He means just as much as Overmars and Davids to Holland and ZeZu and Viera for France. He can create. Something that every midfielder lacks in England. Wait ..... did I say every midfielder?? I meant all except one.

Gazza. That's right ..... Gazza. The best midfielder England has produced in the last decade, and that includes Mr. "I Can Cross The Ball And Do Nothing Else" Beckham. Look at how well he played for England. In EURO 96 they outplayed Germany, only to loose on penalties. Remember how well they played against Holland?? It was all becuase of him.

Now ..... today ..... In England ..... who plays like Paul?? Who can stare a defender in submission?? Certainly not Beckham. (See Roberto Carlos). Not Paul Scholes. Not Paul Ince. Not anyone. (OK maybe Macca, but he does not even play in England, I wonder why). England frowns upon developing such talent because you English believe that the game should be played in the air. Since you play like that ..... everyone should play like that. And if everyone did ..... maybe England would have more than one International Trophy sitting in the FA Trophy room. But the fact is .... no one plays like that. People want to win.

Thankfully .... Alan Shearer is retired. It now opens up the door for some talented strikers like Owen, Fowler, Phillips and dare I say ..... Andy Cole. And even though these men are outstandingly talented players. The service from the midfield must utilize these players' strengths .... speed, finesse, precision passing and beauty. All of which has deserted the English game and players.

Now .... you people can sit here and discuss who Kevin "I Have No Idea What I Am Doing" Keegan is going to put into his starting 11 'till hell freezes over. (Which is when England is going to win a tournament if they play like they do now) But it will not change the fact that England has no midfield. No style of play. Not even creativity. Until another player like Gazza comes along, or Rivaldo decides to play in England and acquire his citizenship ..... England will never win another trophy. Mark my works. They will be lucky if they even qualify ...... becuase if Sweden had not beaten Poland .... Enlgand would not have even been in EURO 2000. That says everything about their "game".

Right. Which is why we've been banging on about these teenage midfielders that have been simply awesome in the Premiership so far. Joe Cole, Steve Gerrard, Frank Lampard Jr., even Matty Etherington at a pinch. Those first three each have the potential to be every bit the play Gazza was.

There are adjectives I learnt at uni to describe my mate Neutral's argument....specious and spurious. I prefer to describe them as Ciceronian. He waxes eloquence, impartiality, and clear thinking, but he always betrays his bias. He uses arguments like; and I paraphrase, 'why do you make it seem that I want 16 or 17 players from L'pool'? but..... he never lets you know that all the other positions are filled by non-England players, who are obviously debarred from selection. He quotes data on strike rate and goals scored etc., but doesn't detail the fact that Cole is part of a successful team who rotates their players, uses star strikers frequently as subsitutes because of the volume of domestic and inter-continent matches they play. He makes no mention of the penalties taken by Fowler and the three or four by Owen, and those not by Cole.

Let's get back to England though, I too have seen the wizardry of Cole, the hammer that is, and he is impressive. The point Neutral makes to warrant his and other youngsters inclusion is meritorious but futile. England never seem to get it when it comes to youngsters. They never give the youth a chance. Not never, they did pick Owen and you see how that evolved.

Neutral, this is your team that will win games for you...... on second thought, who cares.....let me hurrah MYYYY country's team and no one else's . look for Trinidad and Tobago to do great things in the next year and a decade. We know to pick our half of the Man Utd. strikeforce. Let England be ignorant at their peril.

Ohh .... and Drinky ..... why "SHOULD" England be one of the best sides in football?? In over 150 years of international football ...... how many trophies have they won???


ONE??? Out of .... what?? .... thirteen or fourteen World Cups ..... they have won ONE??? This makes them a world power?? Brasil has won four .... been to all 16 World Cups ..... and has been in six first-place games. Germany and Italy each have three. They have consistently showed up in 15 of 16 World Cups. Argentina and even Uraguay have more World Cups than England (2 each) and they have won so many Copa Americas. England has not even won a EURO Cup. What have they done to deserve the label of "World Power??"

Antithesis:"There are adjectives I learnt at uni to describe my mate Neutral's argument....specious and spurious. I prefer to describe them as Ciceronian. He waxes eloquence, impartiality, and clear thinking, but he always betrays his bias."

I love this guy.

I think we could argue the A.Cole vs. Owen thing forever so let's leave it be.

You didn't tell me why u had to go to court.

We invented the sport. That makes us a World Power in my book.

I had to go to court because our Attorney General decided to import two of "England's finest", Lord McKay and Robertson QC to tell us how we ought to administrate our judiciary, via a commission of inquiry. I would not bother to state which of the three choices I am because they all appear similar to me these days.

I think England should bring Bobby Robson back to help Kevin in the tactics of the game. My bet ,is that it was there England failed at EURO2000. Just like Denmark, only Denmark where fare more worse than England.
Ricococo

Some of the people here should write for London Times...

I agree with shez though as far as his analysis. I'm surprised that Keegan seems to be getting off easy, I'd think he's be fired the second he got back to UK, or at least offered to resign! I do think he is a very nice guy though...

Also you ask why should England be a power? because they have so much damn talent, maybe not as much as France or Holland or Brasil(for sure not as much!), but still enough to make them consistent quarter-finalists.

Antithesis,
As much as I enjoy watching T&T's fluid graceful style, you have to concede that they do not deserve their ranking. They've lost just about every major game they've played for the last 10 years and are only there because a) Dwight Yorke keeps promising to play for them and b) I believe their assocaition president is some FIFA bigwhig. I freely admit that Canada, my team, isn't going to repeat its victories over Mexico and Colombia on a regular basis until we have a proper infrastructure in the country. And you must admit that all the Dwight Yorkes in the world aren't going to help your team unless T&T does the same, massively improving it's training of players from early youth and structuring their football progression instead of allowing them to pick it up in the street and hotdog it. That produces stars, but generally not cohesive team players. At least not national teams, and especially not in countries of our comparitively small size. I predict we'll knock you out in the next two games, mate. Because our new German coach Holger Osieck has developed a world-class back line in terms of teamplay and even if we can't finish for squat, we'll ware you guys down. Just look at Mexico and Colombia. Basically shut them both down completely and subs set up the winner against Mexico and the second, capping goal for the North American championship in the final against Colombia.
But maybe Yorke'll prove me wrong. Can't wait-- the game is in my hometown.

Well heres my 10 cents worth.

England have serious problems picking the 'right' players. As much as in my heart I wanted England to do well after watching the Belgium Sweden game I knew we were in trouble. Our squad was too slow and not that good technically on the ball. Also playing 4-4-2 we were always going to be outnumbered in midfield and we have a left and right side that wants to play in the middle. All Portugals attacks came from wide positions that moved inside. Romania too, even Germany.
france and Holland can play 4-4-2 because the French have Zidane and Holland has Davids worth an extra man in my book.

So first we have to play 3-5-2

At goalkeeper we are screwed. We don't have anybody is the sad truth. We looked at James for christs sake.

We need 3 strong and fast backs my personal picks are Stockdale Ferdinand and Dyer. When England picked a young Des Walker some years ago England suddenly had a great defence, amazing what a bit of speed can do. Sansom was no slouch either.

In midfield where contrary to some posts I think we do have some talent.
Beckham Mcmanaman Scholes with the West Ham duo of Lampard and Joe cole.
Mcmananaman must stay left he plays there for Real Madrid. Beckham stays right or sits down Cole and Lampard play the middle with Scholes in front of them linking up with the strikers, he is one of the few players who actually gained a reputation in these champioships. Gerrard comes in for any of these five that can't go. Wise is a real 'english' player which means he is not a good international player alot of Englands breakdowns were because he drifted inside trying to make tackles when he should have been watching the outside guys who got a free run at poor Phil Neville. Beckham was guilty of the same. We have a four man midfield where 4 of them liked going forward, remember who got fouled for the penalty, Ince, now when we asked him to keep the Romanian playmaker quiet in the second half he actually did a good job and thats why they started going wide on us. Keegan should have used Barry, bet he wished he had dyer and Ferdinand, idiot.

I would sack Keegan in a heart beat he made some ridiculous decisions, why did Fowler make the trip? Nick Barmby came on, for what. Heskey? for what. Once Owen comes of have you noticed that teams move up on us, thats because there no one to worry about anymore, idiot. Unless he was dying you keep him on the field, someone has to stay with him, he's too quick. No Heskey did not bother them, he can't control the ball.

By the way we will qualify for the world cup. the Germans are rebuilding and are worst shape than us.

Up front Owen who was not 100% and should not have played and I would give Andy Cole a run, 2/3 of his providers at Man U are in the team. His goal scoring record makes him one of Englands top strikers, if he was welsh or scottish he would be an automatic selection and we would be wishing he was English.

Owen in form is very dangerous and he is only going to get better, but I hope he goes abroard.

Forget Heskey and Phillips, bring in Fowler if Owen or Cole can't go. Pray Wilcox and Woodgate come on quickly and pray we find a good goalkeeper. Seaman is shadow of his former self and I never rated Martyn, that second goal was all his fault. Love Keown and Campbell but they are too slow. Love Ince but its time to look to the future and he is playing for West Ham right now. King at spurs looks like the business too.

Cole is the next Gascoigne if the premier doesn't kick him off the park first.

There it is.

Anti thesis I used to visit Trinidad frequently, work and such. Port of spain and Curepe. Good to see Lara get good start.

Media?!, decides to be tongue-in-cheek. He wasn't serious was he? Is he boasting about a German coach? That lad has cojones and chutzpah. You are correct though, we had a Welshman dumped upon us by our mafioso-like football God and vice-president of FIFA, Mr. Jack Warner. The team is playing terribly, but, there is no way short of Cronje playing centre-forward that Canada can beat our team. Frankly if we lose to Canada, Porterfield's out! He is already in a lot of hot-water having struck a pedestrian; fatally; with his car. The public already perceives him as a lackey of the FIFA don, so any slip-up and he's gone.....

As for Lara, we are tired of the media focus on him, to be honest he is not as popular in these parts as you would think. Many did not want him selected, and it'll take a snot-nose of runs to win him their favour.

Antithesis,
The numbers don't lie: Canada has never lost to T&T: 6-0-2 lifetime. We're 10-0-5, undefeated in 15 under Osieck, scoring 17 and allowing just seven. They've allowed ONE goal in six games. His offense is boring as all get out but DeVos, Watson and Menezes are a very solid back line.
My local paper makes an interesting point on these games: a bunch of teammates squaring off against each other. Forrest and Hislop from West Ham, Stern John and Jim Brennan from Forest, and Paul Fenwick and Russ Latapy from Hibernian.
Are you going to catch the game in T&T?

Thought i may as well add what i gotta say!

i think all you people are forgetting one player tat should be on the left wing but wasnt there cause of injury......
JASON WILCOX!!!!!!!
he is the player for england on the left

and i know campbell is a great defender but in my opinion Keegan just picked players on their repuatation and not as a team.....
Eg. Shearer, Ince, Phil Neville

and i think that if England are ever going to start playing proper football and not this "lets back ourselves into a corner and then boot it as far as we can and hope Shearer can flick it on to the supporting striker who then gets it and is forced to go on his own"
i mean where the hell is that going to get you today!???

if england wants a team that will be able to compete on the world stage then they need to get rid of the players that dont know that you dont have to boot it forward all the time

Main example of this is Gary "I dont want to attack or cross if my mate Beckham is within 500 meters of me!" Neville
and his brother shouldnt have been in the team at all
get rid of Ince...he relies on his power and strength too much and that can only get you so far in todays game
England need a hard man in midfield as that is their game and that man is David Batty
then McManaman in a free role and is allowed to pick up the ball in his own half like Madrid
and Scholes behind the two strikers

i dont know whether anyone else thought of it but all Englands goals were either:
1) off a beckham cross
2) penalty
3) owen going for a run!

well thats what i think and get rid of Keegan as motivation wont get you very far today

Woody_007 - England should be world beaters IF they incorporated the best talent available to them - such as the players mentioned. Hope we aren't hyping these players up, but they up until Wilkinson took the U21 team over, they were world beaters. Seriously.

NO NO NO!! England has talent ..... they may have invented the game a_shearer ..... BUT THEY CANNOT PLAY THE GAME!! NO AMOUNT OF LINEUP CHANGES, TACTICIANS OR COACHES WILL EVER HELP ENGLAND UNTIL THEY LEARN TO PLAY THE GAME!!

SO WHAT IF THEY HAVE TALENT??? TALENT DOES NOT CONSTITUTE A FOOTBALL POWER!! RESULTS DO!! CONSISTENT QUARTER-FINALS MEAN CRAP!! NO ONE REMEMBERS THE QUARTERFINAL LOSERS!! NO ONE REMEMBERS THE FINALS LOSERS!! ONLY THE WINNERS!! AND ENGLAND HAS NOT WON ANYTHING OUTSIDE OF ENGLAND!! THAT DOES NOT MAKE THEM A WORLD POWER!! IT MAKES THEM A BUNCH OVER-PRICED, OVER-HYPED, UNDERACHIEVING LOSERS!!

Drinky .... so what if J Cole, S Gerrard, F Lampard Jr., and M Lampard are talented ... England have substituted Owen out, left Phillips and Fowler on the bench because they cannot play the type of football that the FA believes is English football. These players will just end up like Fowler and Owen and Phillips. Rotting away on the bench while England crash out of every tournament. Nothing is wrong with the talent level in England ..... but the something is seriously wrong with the humility and common sense in England. Until the FA realises that Enlgish football sucks ..... they will never win another title. and we will have this debate until time ends.