Screw Konami

Broodrooster · Nov 18, 2005

I had this very cool thing wich I saw for the first time in my 3rd ML season...

One of my players got injured, but the ref didn't thought that it was worth a free kick so the play continued.. The explanation mark in the left top corner showed me that one of my players was lying injured on the ground so i shot the ball deliberate cross the side line...

After that my player got the medical attention he needed,.. but the cool thing was,.. the CPU gave the ball back to me!! They shot the ball from their own half (with none of their layers on my half) to my goal keeper!! Now that's class!!!!

illafied · Nov 18, 2005

PES5 is the best game out right now, but i agree with every complaint in this thread. especially the fvcking invisible wall the CPU players have in situations, the poor first touches, button presses being ignored, players running towards a loose ball with another CPU player and suddenly curving out of line, cpu switching the player i'm controlling even though its set to manual, and on and on and on.

Noble Savage · Nov 18, 2005

Broodrooster said:
I had this very cool thing wich I saw for the first time in my 3rd ML season...

One of my players got injured, but the ref didn't thought that it was worth a free kick so the play continued.. The explanation mark in the left top corner showed me that one of my players was lying injured on the ground so i shot the ball deliberate cross the side line...

After that my player got the medical attention he needed,.. but the cool thing was,.. the CPU gave the ball back to me!! They shot the ball from their own half (with none of their layers on my half) to my goal keeper!! Now that's class!!!!

Yes I've seen this a couple of times. But the best thing is that this also happens when you play against a friend. Imagine the amount of "you son of a..." and "you motherf...." coming at you when you don't give the ball back to your friend

ugluk · Nov 19, 2005

OK, screw ML. I'm tired of this BS.

PES 5 is great when I play with my friends. It's fun, it's realistic, and it's awesome. My best friend plays Real and I play Chelsea, and it's like a real life Chelsea-Real game, it's so intense. We almost always go overtime. The goals that are scored are very rarely flukes - usually they are what goals in real life are. You should see the one he scored on me with Ronaldo, it was amazing. Or my silver goal winner from an unbelievable header by Gudjonsen in the last few mins of 2nd ET.

But ML is a totally different story. Somethin just happens to my players. I have a very good offensive line up, but they can't do sh*t. The other day something that totally pissed me off happened. I passed the ball to Schuster (my best player, check him out, he's good), he trapped, turned around, and then ran away, leaving the ball for the opponent. My jaw simply dropped. I spent about 20 minutes playing that back and forth in replay mode. That was just explicit cheating to the core.

Every time I take shot with a player whose accuracy and technique are 90, he hits the post. Or it goes out. Whenever I take a P.K. with a person with 90 accuracy and a penalties abilitiy, it gets saved. I shoot straight, keep doesn't move, I shoot top left, keep saves, I shoot top right, keep saves. I shoot bottom, keep saves. WTH?? Since when did the EPL goalies get so good? I understand if buffon or cech saved my penalty. That'd be realistic. But when my best player, with a penalties ability, can't put the ball in the goal from 4 out of 5 penalties, that's just wrong.

I don't understand how does it happen that the comp suddenly gets unbelievably good in the last 20 mins of the game if they are losing. Shouldn't this happen for my team, too? But no, wait! My team just gets tired with 20 mins to go. They can't play Carlos.

That, and many other stupid things such as defenders bumping into each other and falling, defenders taking the ball away from the keeper and scoring own goals, cursor switching on manual setting to prevent me from defending, players zigzaging in order not to get the ball before the opponent, insane ref decision against me, very lenient reffing against the cpu, 5-6 shots out of a total of 15 hitting the post in a game, world-class players missing shots from 1 yard out while being completelly unmarked by their opponents, etc, etc, etc, all of this is probably going to make me stop playing the game.

I tried fifa. It sucks. The graphics are horrible compared to PES, the animations are crap, and the game doesn't look realistic at all. Plus, it's boring and too easy. But I'm very disappointed with PES for ruining the thing I loved the most about it: master league.

My inet connection here at school sucks and not many people play soccer games in the US, so I'm stuck with only two people who can play, and I'm better than them by a lot.

Warcraft III anyone?

niceman · Nov 19, 2005

Noble Savage said:
Yes I've seen this a couple of times. But the best thing is that this also happens when you play against a friend. Imagine the amount of "you son of a..." and "you motherf...." coming at you when you don't give the ball back to your friend

I onlu do it when it is one of my own players (muaha!)...it happened one day i kicked the ball out but the pricks didnt give me the ball back...man after that i jusy slaughtered one og their players 4 times...

niceman · Nov 19, 2005

illafied said:
PES5 is the best game out right now, but i agree with every complaint in this thread. especially the fvcking invisible wall the CPU players have in situations, the poor first touches, button presses being ignored, players running towards a loose ball with another CPU player and suddenly curving out of line, cpu switching the player i'm controlling even though its set to manual, and on and on and on.

I must say there is a lot of whining out there about the game.

But lets be realistic its awsome!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I was also frustrated but took Milan as team and start winning a lot more...so i guess many r angry cause they get frustrated cause they lose cause they lack skills...U know its the truth well at least some of it...cause i agree that cou mtf cheats...sometimes i have a one on one with goalie and my player makes some idiotic move and then defender catches up...but besides that it is way better than previous versions...

sreddy · Nov 21, 2005

you are tiring

TristanAbbott7 said:
I'm sick of losing games because of what other players on my team do when I have no control over them.

Why dont you just stick with you damn FIFA06, the game you spent a lot of time telling everybody, that you would play instead of playin PES5.

That is months ago. What are you doing touching PES5 at all, after that "big announcement"??

Keep playing the FIFA06-crap game, in stead of keep whining over the PES game.

Johnny_Big · Nov 21, 2005

Poor first touches? And so? In real life they look easy...but they ARE NOT. They tend to be intercepted...and so does the through balls.

The only thing I can complain from this game is the extreme realism sometimes...but I love the extreme realism...!

Maichal1616 · Nov 21, 2005

Johnny_Big said:
The only thing I can complain from this game is the extreme realism sometimes...but I love the extreme realism...!

Oh, like the ultra realistic 'deflections' which always end up on the foot of the CPU player. Or van Nistelrooy not being able to score from 2 yards out like in real life, ay? What about the realistic penalty calls for the slightest of contact especially in the cup finals against Chelsea or Real, but that's how that sort of games are ALWAYS decided in real life right? Hitting the bar 5 times per match, oh well, bad luck I guess. Players, who are not selected scoring fantastic own goals, I guess they really have the mind of their own and I guess it's random. That is if every big game when you're 1 goal up is considered random.

I really don't get it why some people feel the need to fly down on every single person saying anything slighltly negative about their Super Ultra Realistic Absolutely Perfect Gift of God PES and defend the thing like their lives were at stake.

Is the game good, yes. Is it really absolutely perfect, no, it's far from it. There are serious faults that need to be corrected and the mass of people screaming PES ROCKS in every topic that can be considered as feedback to Konami are not helping the Evolution part of this Pro Soccer campaign.

TristanAbbott7 · Nov 21, 2005

sreddy said:
Why dont you just stick with you damn FIFA06, the game you spent a lot of time telling everybody, that you would play instead of playin PES5.

That is months ago. What are you doing touching PES5 at all, after that "big announcement"??

Keep playing the FIFA06-crap game, in stead of keep whining over the PES game.

Dude, you coming onto my thread entitled "Screw Konami" to post is ironic beyond belief! It's like walking into a goth store and complaining that they have goth music playing and thinking you have the right to tell them to play pop!!!

TristanAbbott7 · Nov 21, 2005

Johnny_Big said:
Poor first touches? And so? In real life they look easy...but they ARE NOT. They tend to be intercepted...and so does the through balls.

The only thing I can complain from this game is the extreme realism sometimes...but I love the extreme realism...!

Then dude, you must suck at the game in real life if you can't trap a ground ball at speed without it bouncing off your foot or shinguard 5 yards away from you!

That might be "extreme realism" for you but for those of us who have been playing since we could walk, we know it's unusual for somebody to screw up a high proportion of traps. (I apologize to those Arsenal fans old enough to remember Gus Ceasar who in fact couldn't trap a stationary ball!)

The_Knight · Nov 21, 2005

Johnny_Big said:
Poor first touches? And so? In real life they look easy...

Umm, well... wudn't that make 'extreme realism' mean that it shud look easy on PES too?

Man, end line is, Zidane doesn't trap a ball in real-life, the way he does in PES5... Ronaldo doesn't have to chase the ball after everytime he receives it. And no I don't hold 'sprint' while receiving the ball.

Konami just made 1st touches (along with many other issues) more difficult than real-life, just to make the game more challenging and difficult. Consider it cheating... not cheating... it's just the wrong way to make a game more difficult.

As I said before, many people are confusing 'difficult' with 'realism'.

sreddy · Nov 21, 2005

well

TristanAbbott7 said:
Dude, you coming onto my thread entitled "Screw Konami" to post is ironic beyond belief! It's like walking into a goth store and complaining that they have goth music playing and thinking you have the right to tell them to play pop!!!

Well since it was so damn important for you to announce your big "goodbye" to the series, it seems very ironic finding your (imo) silly complains over a game you should not be playing, if your previous words had any meaning.

It is also ironic that you also in this thread talk about "I'm not touching this crap again until the next version"

I mean, how many times can you say things like that, and still have some credability left? It is not like, we all once more are going to say, that we are going to miss you, if that is what you are looking for.

And if you think you deserve a better answer to your gameplaying issues, you would normally be right, but since you are unable to put your criticism into mature sentences and stick with "SCREW Konami / Crap Game"-sentences, you really dont deserve that much.

TristanAbbott7 · Nov 21, 2005

Then don't post in this thread! You know what it's about!!! It's like banging your head on a wall and not learning it hurts the first time so you keep doing it!!!

You don't seem to understand - I DON'T WANT TO PLAY FIFA! I want to play the PES/WE series I've loved for the last 3 years but this version is a freaking lame duck. It's got nothing to do with the game being hard or unbeatable, it's about how they've changed the game to try and make it more challenging. They've taken away the realism of the previous ball control and physics to create a new challenge because they can't make the game harder in any other way presently.

The problem is the limited AI. Konami have reached the limits, and they've said so themselves in Seabass last interview, of AI on the PS2. As every other version is a port from that, we all suffer. They had no other way to make the game harder than basically change the whole gameplay in ways that made it more difficult to control the ball or score. They had to do this by making the game unrealistic as opposed to realistic.

The problem is with soccer sims is that people know the tactics of the game in real life and know how to create scoring opportunities, defend etc. so it's difficult to make a game that already supercedes the knowledge out there. It's not like a fantasy game like Halo where you just make more monsters, make them harder to kill etc. because it's easy to make games like that harder. With soccer games, you have to try to keep it realistic so how do you go about making a sequel to a game like PES4 where people were owning it on 6 stars and yet keep the same gameplay? You can't.

When the next gen. versions come along Fall '07 for Europe and Spring '08 for the US then I expect Konami to get back on form and the game to be awesome again because they can make each player have it's own unique AI rather than purely being reactionary following zone type grids to pressure and support upon transition. Henry will play like Henry then. As WE10/PES6 outside of Asia will be PS2 based then we can't expect anything better next year either as the graphics potential has been reached (again, Seabass admitted this in thel ast interview). The average PC at the moment can't handle the AI requirements either so the port will be from the PS2 version again rather than attempting to port it from the PS3 version.

What pisses me off about the whole thing, and why I made this thread, is because of if we have to have another year of current gen. soccer sims from Konami (and we do, only Asia will be getting the PS3 versions next year because the machine won't even be released in Europe and Konami won't make a Euro/North American version for the 360), I want Konami to make the game like it used to be when it was more realistic. You can make players pressure you faster, tackle you harder, have better passing and shooting without destroying how the human plays which is what has made it unrealistic now.

Making the refs call every little contact from you when in real life, look at the tackles that fly in and the shoulder barges that would knock a horse over. In PES5, the slightest brush of a shoulder results in a player going down. They basically took away the conservative tackle so they force you to contain rather than tackle. Even tackles from the front are ultra gay and the kind of contact you'd expect in a under 10 girls game results in a yellow card in PES5!

When we get the next gen. versions, everything will be rosy again I'm sure but I don't want to be playing PES6 with the same stupid gameplay or even worse because they have nothing extra to add with the graphics at their limit and probably no more licenses on the way.

Maybe I should change the title to "Screw Konami Until PES7/WE11:I"

J_J_Okocha · Nov 21, 2005

TristanAbbott7 said:
Then don't post in this thread! You know what it's about!!! It's like banging your head on a wall and not learning it hurts the first time so you keep doing it!!!

You don't seem to understand - I DON'T WANT TO PLAY FIFA! I want to play the PES/WE series I've loved for the last 3 years but this version is a freaking lame duck. It's got nothing to do with the game being hard or unbeatable, it's about how they've changed the game to try and make it more challenging. They've taken away the realism of the previous ball control and physics to create a new challenge because they can't make the game harder in any other way presently.

The problem is the limited AI. Konami have reached the limits, and they've said so themselves in Seabass last interview, of AI on the PS2. As every other version is a port from that, we all suffer. They had no other way to make the game harder than basically change the whole gameplay in ways that made it more difficult to control the ball or score. They had to do this by making the game unrealistic as opposed to realistic.

The problem is with soccer sims is that people know the tactics of the game in real life and know how to create scoring opportunities, defend etc. so it's difficult to make a game that already supercedes the knowledge out there. It's not like a fantasy game like Halo where you just make more monsters, make them harder to kill etc. because it's easy to make games like that harder. With soccer games, you have to try to keep it realistic so how do you go about making a sequel to a game like PES4 where people were owning it on 6 stars and yet keep the same gameplay? You can't.

When the next gen. versions come along Fall '07 for Europe and Spring '08 for the US then I expect Konami to get back on form and the game to be awesome again because they can make each player have it's own unique AI rather than purely being reactionary following zone type grids to pressure and support upon transition. Henry will play like Henry then. As WE10/PES6 outside of Asia will be PS2 based then we can't expect anything better next year either as the graphics potential has been reached (again, Seabass admitted this in thel ast interview). The average PC at the moment can't handle the AI requirements either so the port will be from the PS2 version again rather than attempting to port it from the PS3 version.

What pisses me off about the whole thing, and why I made this thread, is because of if we have to have another year of current gen. soccer sims from Konami (and we do, only Asia will be getting the PS3 versions next year because the machine won't even be released in Europe and Konami won't make a Euro/North American version for the 360), I want Konami to make the game like it used to be when it was more realistic. You can make players pressure you faster, tackle you harder, have better passing and shooting without destroying how the human plays which is what has made it unrealistic now.

Making the refs call every little contact from you when in real life, look at the tackles that fly in and the shoulder barges that would knock a horse over. In PES5, the slightest brush of a shoulder results in a player going down. They basically took away the conservative tackle so they force you to contain rather than tackle. Even tackles from the front are ultra gay and the kind of contact you'd expect in a under 10 girls game results in a yellow card in PES5!

When we get the next gen. versions, everything will be rosy again I'm sure but I don't want to be playing PES6 with the same stupid gameplay or even worse because they have nothing extra to add with the graphics at their limit and probably no more licenses on the way.

Maybe I should change the title to "Screw Konami Until PES7/WE11:I"

screw u. get back to your patch work u patcher. :hit:

juce_66 · Nov 21, 2005

Wolf,

i think Sreddy and others who tried to respond with something more than "screw you, you're wrong", get upset because of the ultra harsh manner of your comments on PES5. Most of the points you make are correct ones. However, overall it creates a very negative perception of the game, basically dismissing it as rubbish. This is not accurate: in addition to shortcommings, PES5 has some improvements over all previous PC versions. People here and on other forums have learned to listen to your opinion. So you have the responsiblity of watching out for what you say. To me, the criticism could have been voiced in a less drammatic fashion, while retaining all the specific points made.

Nuno · Nov 21, 2005

juce_66 said:
Wolf,

i think Sreddy and others who tried to respond with something more than "screw you, you're wrong", get upset because of the ultra harsh manner of your comments on PES5. Most of the points you make are correct ones. However, overall it creates a very negative perception of the game, basically dismissing it as rubbish. This is not accurate: in addition to shortcommings, PES5 has some improvements over all previous PC versions. People here and on other forums have learned to listen to your opinion. So you have the responsiblity of watching out for what you say. To me, the criticism could have been voiced in a less drammatic fashion, while retaining all the specific points made.

I couldn't have said it better. (Y)

deftonesmx17 · Nov 21, 2005

TristanAbbott7 said:
The average PC at the moment can't handle the AI requirements either so the port will be from the PS2 version again rather than attempting to port it from the PS3 version.

I take it you don't read up on what developers are starting to say about the CPU's for the "next-gen" consoles, do you?

A Pentium D or AMD Athlon 64 class CPU already is more powerful in real world performance because the custom IBM Xenon and Cell lack quality branch predictors and large enough caches. The Cells SPEs are rather useless because of their extremely small chace size. Every time they do something they must place a DMA request on the bus in order to access the main memory. Developers find it almost impractical to use them because of this.

kschoice · Nov 21, 2005

deftonesmx17 said:
I take it you don't read up on what developers are starting to say about the CPU's for the "next-gen" consoles, do you?

A Pentium D or AMD Athlon 64 class CPU already is more powerful in real world performance because the custom IBM Xenon and Cell lack quality branch predictors and large enough caches. The Cells SPEs are rather useless because of their extremely small chace size. Every time they do something they must place a DMA request on the bus in order to access the main memory. Developers find it almost impractical to use them because of this.

Lack of performance will always be the excuse of choice for not improving AI. The fact is that most of the CPU performance is used for graphics improvement, which please marketing people the most, and are so easier to advertize. I am really pessimistic about the fact that AI will ever get improved, unless we find people who are willing to really dedicate themselves to that task, and who can find support to do that.

TristanAbbott7 · Nov 21, 2005

deftonesmx17 said:
I take it you don't read up on what developers are starting to say about the CPU's for the "next-gen" consoles, do you?

A Pentium D or AMD Athlon 64 class CPU already is more powerful in real world performance because the custom IBM Xenon and Cell lack quality branch predictors and large enough caches. The Cells SPEs are rather useless because of their extremely small chace size. Every time they do something they must place a DMA request on the bus in order to access the main memory. Developers find it almost impractical to use them because of this.

Does the average PC user have a system that can run PGR3 at the same speed and graphical quality as the Xbox 360? The average PC user?

I very much doubt it.

I understand perfectly well what you're saying and it's nothing I don't already know but games for the PC are produced normally with a min. spec. and recommended spec. For a software manufacturer to produce a game that will only run on 5% of machines is business suicide.

On the next gen. machines, it's the GPU that makes the difference because the next gen. processors are no faster in reality than the processors in current mid-high entry-level PCs. But, not everybody has a $200/$300 graphics card in their machine to compensate.

There are enough complaints at the moment about slowdown and graphical glitches without the next version of PES for the PC needing everybody to upgrade their graphics card to play it.

Screw Konami

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