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2013 Draft Competition - Semifinal #2

Back Door Skip

Pedro
Staff member
Vote for the team you think should go through to the next round. Discussion and comments are welcomed.






FC Brazzers












Subs: Zaha, Doumbia, Lakaku, Benatia, Candreva, Nianggolan, Payet, Yilmaz, Jose Enrique, Konko, Belfodil, Ruffier, Diego Alves







VS.







FCB Redbull








 

ShiftyPowers

Make America Great Again
These are the two best teams left. Hard to judge for me, but in the end Messi's brilliance is as good of a tie breaker as I can come up with.
 

Mandieta6

Red Card - Life
Life Ban
I'm not a fan of either team, honestly, but Andrei's change makes his team better and I think he edges this.
 

Xaviesta

Starting XI
Lord Mandieta6;3557436 said:
I'm not a fan of either team, honestly, but Andrei's change makes his team better and I think he edges this.

Why?

Andrei has a good team, but still ... 6-1 so far. Really? People are not objective here.
 

Mandieta6

Red Card - Life
Life Ban
It's an opinion poll, how do you expect people to be objective? Lucas in for Lukaku means he has a DM behind Wilshere and Paulinho which liberates them and allows them to shine. Removing Lukaku removes someone who I think wpuld have got in Messi's way, thus bringing more out of Messi.

Now that I've answered your question maybe you'll start answering mine from now on.
 

Dytza

Banned - Playing with Fire
Lord Mandieta6;3557444 said:
Lucas in for Lukaku means he has a DM behind Wilshere and Paulinho which liberates them and allows them to shine.

I don't think Wilshere and Paulinho can "shine" in such an advanced role because both play better in the same line as Lucas Leiva. That means the linker between them and Messi should be Arda Turan. Messi likes to play with a LW and RW, and Arda leaving his spot means less space for Messi.

I didn't expect such a big margin here. The teams are balanced but imo there's a slightly advantage in Xaviesta's favour.
 

Xaviesta

Starting XI
I'm not saying Andrei's team wouldn't work in reality or mine is much much better, but still.

This is an honest and objective opinion:

GK: Valdes vs Casillas. Valdes is definitely better, it's a waste of time for making any comparisons here.

Defense: His weakest player is Terry and Ferdinand is mine. Schmelzer Hummels Arbeloa vs Criscito Kompany Lichts. I'd say this is pretty balanced.

Midfielders: Bender Lampard Silva vs LucasLeiva Paulinho Wilshere. Bender is Dortmund's DM, UCL finalist. Lampard is good for my team, experienced, the perfect partener for someone like Bender. Silva isn't in shape but he's still a very good player who can decide games.
Wilshere isn't in a good moment, Ramsey is better than him.
So, I'd say here i'm more experienced and a little better.

Strikers: Messi is Messi but there are Arda Turan and Lucas. Arda Turan is LW, i don't get this. Arda plays AM or LM. LW with Messi would be very difficult to him. Lucas is benched at this moment at PSG. (Not in good shape)
Arda Turan (LW?!) Messi Lucas vs Hazard Ibrahimovic Di Maria. Messi balances this but seriously now.


Again, i'm not saying I have a much much better team but 6-1? Come on ...
 

Mandieta6

Red Card - Life
Life Ban
Wilshere and Paulinho are made for this role. Together they leave too much space behind but with Lucas they have someone covering and can break forward, which also works well with a false 9. Since when are Barca's wingers pure touchline players? Wingers plating with a false 9 should open up the field as well as move into the space vacated by the 9. Both Ttan and Moura can do that although I do think that Andrei's wingers are pretty weak.
 

Mandieta6

Red Card - Life
Life Ban
Xaviesta;3557458 said:
I'm not saying Andrei's team wouldn't work in reality or mine is much much better, but still.

This is an honest and objective opinion:

GK: Valdes vs Casillas. Valdes is definitely better, it's a waste of time for making any comparisons here.

Defense: His weakest player is Terry and Ferdinand is mine. Schmelzer Hummels Arbeloa vs Criscito Kompany Lichts. I'd say this is pretty balanced.

Midfielders: Bender Lampard Silva vs LucasLeiva Paulinho Wilshere. Bender is Dortmund's DM, UCL finalist. Lampard is good for my team, experienced, the perfect partener for someone like Bender. Silva isn't in shape but he's still a very good player who can decide games.
Wilshere isn't in a good moment, Ramsey is better than him.
So, I'd say here i'm more experienced and a little better.

Strikers: Messi is Messi but there are Arda Turan and Lucas. Arda Turan is LW, i don't get this. Arda plays AM or LM. LW with Messi would be very difficult to him. Lucas is benched at this moment at PSG. (Not in good shape)
Arda Turan (LW?!) Messi Lucas vs Hazard Ibrahimovic Di Maria. Messi balances this but seriously now.


Again, i'm not saying I have a much much better team but 6-1? Come on ...

This is your opinion. It is not objective. Either you don't understand the term or you are deluding yourself.

Valdes is not definitely better. I think he might be, especially based on form, but it is as clear-cut as you make it out to be. I think his defense is better. Lichtensteiner and Kompany are better than Hummels and Arbeloa, Schmelzer is better than Criscito but I think Terry is better than Ferdinand. Either way, Messi would have a better time against your CBs than Ibra against Andrei's, IMO.

In midfield, yes, Bender is Dortmund's DM but that doesn't make him good. Torres and Cahill won the CL with Chelsea, that doesn't make them great players (note that I think Bender is great). Bender has had some difficulties in making the starting berth his own while Lampard is definitely past-it. He and Bender are definitely solid enough, but they are not Champions-level. You lack creativity at the base although admittedly Hummels and Ferdinand are good playing the ball out. Andrei's midfield is more balanced. Ramsey better than Wilshere? Are you insane? Wilshere is Arsenal's crown jewel. Ramsey scores a few times and suddenly he's better? You are giving a lot of weight to the limited sample of matches that have been played this year rather than paying attention to form over the past season.

In attack, I would say yours is overall better. That said, Silva and Di Maria did not have the best of years and Hazard was quite hot and cold. Your attack looks very impressive on paper, as those are all players with great reputations, but I don't think their reputation reflects their current level. Also, Andrei has Messi.

I think it's very close, and both teams are flawed (and to use your term, in my honest and objective opinion neither of these teams are better than the two that should be in the final (Inner Circle vs Urban)) but Andrei edges it.
 

4ndr3i

SG's van Bommel
Xaviesta's arguments are just :facepalm:.

Gotta love the one where Arda Turan is not a left winger (although almost every site and source I've searched seem to think so for some ludicrous reason) but he plays as a left midfielder or as an attacking one, left winger is a no no. The one where Ramsey is better than Wilshere... and many many more.
 

Xaviesta

Starting XI
Arda Turan isn't a LW, even if he plays there sometimes. Have you seen Wilshere this season? Ramsey started the season better.

Terry>Ferdinand? Enough.

4ndr3i;3557522 said:
Xaviesta's arguments are just :facepalm:.

What's the problem?

I watch almost every game of Atletico and believe me, Arda Turan is not suitable as LW in your team. Messi loves to play with players like Neymar, Villa, Alexis, Aguero, Lavezzi, Pedro etc. Arda Turan would be a problem for him. He isn't a goalscorer, same for Lucas. Messi is quite alone there.
 

Filipower

Bunburyist
Xaviesta;3557532 said:
Messi loves to play with players like Neymar, Villa, Alexis, Aguero, Lavezzi, Pedro etc. Arda Turan would be a problem for him.

I don't like this argument. You say he "loves to play with players like" and then enumerate players he's already played with. Plus there are a few different players here, too. Saying Messi and Arda wouldn't work because Messi has played with other types of players isn't a very good argument: it's the whole point of the Draft! IMO at least.
 

Xaviesta

Starting XI
Messi likes fast and technical players who attack the goal, players who can score easily. Arda is a midfielder and he's not that kind of player. Messi likes to have someone who can play as #9, to make free spaces for him. See Aguero, Higuain, Villa and especially Alexis.
 

Mandieta6

Red Card - Life
Life Ban
Xaviesta;3557532 said:
Arda Turan isn't a LW, even if he plays there sometimes. Have you seen Wilshere this season? Ramsey started the season better.

Terry>Ferdinand? Enough.



What's the problem?

I watch almost every game of Atletico and believe me, Arda Turan is not suitable as LW in your team. Messi loves to play with players like Neymar, Villa, Alexis, Aguero, Lavezzi, Pedro etc. Arda Turan would be a problem for him. He isn't a goalscorer, same for Lucas. Messi is quite alone there.

So, Ramsey has played a couple of matches better than Wilshere so he is a better play? So Anthony Modeste and Diego Costa are better than Ibrahimovic then? Please, don't be ridiculous.

I think Terry is better than Ferdinand. I'm biased, sure, but Ferdinand's decline has been more pronounced than Terry's. Terry actually kept RVP quiet a few matches ago and has adapted to his lack of speed far better than Ferdinand. He's also very good on the ball, which is Ferdinand's main strength. ManU fans are calling for him to be benched, but Terry is our 2nd best CB (since Ivanovic is RB now).

I'm pretty sure Turan is a LW, he's played there, he's done a good job of it. Look, there's no denying that Andrei's wingers are weak, but fixating on it won't get you more votes, people already know this, and they votes for him anyway. Messi scores enough goals that his partners don't necessarily have to be great scorers so long as their movement is good (if their movement is good Messi will like them whether they score or not), and I see no reason why Moura and Turan can't make it work. I wouldn't be surprised if Messi could make Moura, Paulinho and Turan score 10-15 goals a seasons (maybe not all of them), and I think that's serviceable.
 

4ndr3i

SG's van Bommel
I don't think goalscoring should be taken into account because if that's the case than Xaviesta team only has 5 goals between all his players in this start of the season. Ibrahimovic being his top goalscorer with 2 goals in 7 games. And also both my shitty wingers have managed to score in this season which is more than can be said about Xaviesta's goalscorer wingers who have yet to break the ice.
 

Mandieta6

Red Card - Life
Life Ban
If you're following Xaviesta's faulty logic that states that only the 2013-2014 season counts then yes, you've got a point.
 


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