2018 world cup bid

Pogba4Now

Team Captain
ShiftyPowers;2959777 said:
This is basically an attempt to pump air conditioning into an open air stadium in 120 degree heat which WILL NOT WORK and even if it does it's still going to be absolutely miserable on training grounds and for the fans.
In theory it seems unlikely to work effectively. But you can't say "IT WON'T WORK" without giving them the chance to try it. You never know what type of technology you'll get in 12 years.

ShiftyPowers;2959777 said:
They're great on women's rights... they just must dress modestly or be severely punished.
what the fvck are you talking about? Read that again:

There are no laws preventing women from dressing how they like, provided they refrain from being provocative, as is expected of men as well. However modest clothing is still worn by both women and men.

severely punished? WTF? where did you hear that?! Its Qatar, not Saudi Arabia or Iraq. Not all Middle Eastern countries are the same.

The reason why you see people in Qatar dress up in traditional clothing is because they chose it for cultural/religious reasons. NOT because they have to. There are no laws in Qatar preventing them dress as they like.

ShiftyPowers;2959777 said:
And btw, yes I have heard of security concerns in Qatar:

http://www.forbes.com/2005/03/25/cz_0325oxan_qatarattack.html

But regardless, just because there haven't been many attacks doesn't mean anything. First of all, there has never been any reason to strike in Qatar; the World Cup provides the first reason for a terrorist network to target the area. Does Qatar have the resources to deal with a major terrorist threat? Particularly in light of what I can only assume is relatively open borders with Saudi Arabia? I would guess that they aren't even close to having the kind of security personnel to handle the possible threat, and again, this is pretty troublesome considering it's geographic proximity to the nations that actually produce most terrorists and how the limited government may not be fully focused on the entire length of it's borders when the country is swamped with tourists.

You're being excessively negative and intolerant to Qatar for no reason. Thats pathetic. There might be few rare cases of attacks, but these happen in any countries. Attacks don't happen more commonly in Qatar compared to other countries. Qatar's a very stable country and far more safe than Palestine/Iraq, Sri Lanka etc for instance. If the WC in SA went smoothly, I can't see any reason why it won't in Qatar.

EDIT:

For your info, they tested the cooling system already using an older cooling system. It has been FIFA inspected.

FIFA inspectors, who are in Qatar through Thursday, toured a specially designed stadium with a solar-powered cooling system which would be installed in the 12 proposed stadiums. The cooling system is designed to keep temperatures at 27 degrees Celsius on the field and in the stands, far cooler than the 41 C average in June, July and August. It was forecast to reach 44 C on Wednesday, according to the BBC.

Qatar's cooling system is designed to continuously pump cool air into the venues, and Qatar bid committee CEO Hassan al-Thawadi has said the technology can be expanded in the coming years to ensure that fan zones and training sites are also kept cool. Al-Thawadi also promised the system would be carbon-neutral because it depends on renewable energy sources.

Inspectors also watched a local soccer match at a stadium with an older cooling system which is powered by the country's electricity grid. Temperatures at the 16,000-seat, Al Saad stadium got down to as low as 19 C during the match, according to organizers.

The inspection team include six delegates, led by Chile Football Federation president Harold Mayne-Nicholls. Danny Jordaan, chief executive of the organizing committee for the World Cup in South Africa, is also part of the delegation.

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/soccer/story/2010/09/15/sp-fifa-qatar.html
 

ShiftyPowers

Make America Great Again
Nady;2959782 said:
what the fvck are you talking about? Read that again:

There are no laws preventing women from dressing how they like, provided they refrain from being provocative

severely punished? WTF? where did you hear that?! Its Qatar, not Saudi Arabia or Iraq. Not all Middle Eastern countries are the same.

You can NOT be that stupid. Read what I wrote too.

You're being excessively negative and intolerant to Qatar for no reason. Thats pathetic. There might be few rare cases of attacks, but these happen in any countries. Attacks don't happen more commonly in Qatar compared to other countries. Qatar's a very stable country and far more safe than Palestine/Iraq, Sri Lanka etc for instance. If the WC in SA went smoothly, I can't see any reason why it won't in Qatar.

You must be doing this to flame because you seriously CANNOT be this stupid. For no reason!? Besides the valid concerns I have listed, Qatar still hasn't built the majority of the stadiums they plan on using for this competition, has no history in football of any kind nor is it a nation that will be energized by hosting a World Cup (94, 02, 10). Plus it's an absolute monarchy with 1.6 million people! Way to promote the people's game FIFA, nothing like rewarding a bunch of obscenely rich sheikhs ahead of nations with large populations DYING for a World Cup (USA and Oz) and are... you know... democracies rather than dictatorships spawned by a military coup. I honestly can't think of a single reason FOR having the World Cup in Qatar. Not a single valid reason.

And wow, good for Qatar! It's safer than Palestine, Iraq, and Sri Lanka! Good for them! Maybe the next World Cup will be in Somali-land or Northern Mexico.

For your info, they tested the cooling system already using an older cooling system. It has been FIFA inspected.



http://www.cbc.ca/sports/soccer/story/2010/09/15/sp-fifa-qatar.html

The most corrupt organization on earth who clearly wanted a World Cup in Qatar and has shown it is incompetent time after time has declared that this works flawlessly. Well I'm convinced.
 

Pogba4Now

Team Captain
ShiftyPowers;2959784 said:
You can NOT be that stupid. Read what I wrote too.

provided they refrain from being provocative, as is expected of men as well.
Women and men have equal rights there. Fact.

That invalidates your statement that "qatar does not recognize women rights".

ShiftyPowers;2959784 said:
For no reason!? Besides the valid concerns I have listed, Qatar still hasn't built the majority of the stadiums they plan on using for this competition, has no history in football of any kind nor is it a nation that will be energized by hosting a World Cup (94, 02, 10). Plus it's an absolute monarchy with 1.6 million people! Way to promote the people's game FIFA, nothing like rewarding a bunch of obscenely rich sheikhs ahead of nations with large populations DYING for a World Cup (USA and Oz) and are... you know... democracies rather than dictatorships spawned by a military coup. I honestly can't think of a single reason FOR having the World Cup in Qatar. Not a single valid reason.

They have 12 years to build the stadiums and certainly have enough oil to finance their plans. I don't see this being an issue at all.

I'm totally against monarchy. But why can't the WC be held in a monarchy? How will that affect the WC experience?! You're just being intolerant. Qatar being a monarchy is totally irrelevant to the WC.

Qatar's population is 1.6 millions but people from surrounding countries would get the chance to attend the WC. It can't always be hosted in America or Europe right?


USA hosted the WC recently so it would be ridiculous and unfair to host it there again.


TBH, out of all bids, I think Australia deserved it more than other countries. I'm surprised they didn't get it. They have consistently participated in World Cups and its the only continent where the WC hasn't taken place yet.
 

VanTheMan

You'd better behave yourself this time!
..and so this is the Nady vs ShiftyPowers show...
Lets say..Shifty to host the 2018 world cup and nady for the 2022 one
 

Sevillista

Starting XI
ShiftyPowers;2959784 said:
You must be doing this to flame because you seriously CANNOT be this stupid. For no reason!? Besides the valid concerns I have listed, Qatar still hasn't built the majority of the stadiums they plan on using for this competition, has no history in football of any kind nor is it a nation that will be energized by hosting a World Cup (94, 02, 10). Plus it's an absolute monarchy with 1.6 million people! Way to promote the people's game FIFA, nothing like rewarding a bunch of obscenely rich sheikhs ahead of nations with large populations DYING for a World Cup (USA and Oz) and are... you know... democracies rather than dictatorships spawned by a military coup. I honestly can't think of a single reason FOR having the World Cup in Qatar. Not a single valid reason.

And wow, good for Qatar! It's safer than Palestine, Iraq, and Sri Lanka! Good for them! Maybe the next World Cup will be in Somali-land or Northern Mexico.

The most corrupt organization on earth who clearly wanted a World Cup in Qatar and has shown it is incompetent time after time has declared that this works flawlessly. Well I'm convinced.
Lots of things that made me LOL in this post. The bit in bold above indicates that you're simply not going to be reasonable about any of this, but I feel compelled to answer anyways.

1) USA = large population dying for a World Cup? Buuuuuuuuullsh*t. I bet at least 90% of Americans didn't even know the USA was in contention for the 2022 World Cup until yesterday, and 90% don't care that we didn't win. The announcement was the fourth-leading sports story on ESPN.com when it was announced. Furthermore, I bet 50% or more don't remember that there was a World Cup hosted here 16 years ago.

2) The most corrupt organization on earth? You live in the USA dude, look at our government or any major financial institution. You're giving FIFA, who controls a sport, way too much credit here. Besides, FIFA's biggest interest here is to have a successful World Cup. There's no reason for them to "clearly want a World Cup in Qatar" if they don't think it will go well.

3) "Dictatorship spawned by a military coup" = Dictator replacing a more conservative dictator in a bloodless coup and improving civil rights.

If you can't think of a single reason for Qatar to host, how about the fact that the nation is willing to build 9 state of the art stadiums for this one event? As a soccer fan, I feel like we hit the f*cking Carlos*pot on this one.

Btw, are you a Republican?
 

ShiftyPowers

Make America Great Again
Sevillista;2959795 said:
Btw, are you a Republican?

Ohhhh no no no no.

I spent my time in the People's Republic of Madison same as you. I actually consider the modern Democratic Party too right wing to get any of my votes anymore.

USA media isn't big on soccer, it's a minority sport, but in a country of 350 million (probably up to that now) with an immigrant tradition and the internet allowing anyone who wants to follow foreign leagues closely to do so, we are an ideal location for the World Cup. You could probably fill 50% of the games with American citizen soccer fans supporting the nation of their ancestors. Qatar... honestly I doubt anyone there gives two ****s about the World Cup except for a couple die hards and the sheiks who's pockets will be lined with cash.

The rest of your points, while valid, don't really get at anything material to the situation. Okay it's a better dictatorship than the previous one. Great. Still not a good thing. FIFA isn't as corrupt as some organizations. Great. They're still pretty corrupt.

New stadiums... in Qatar. Who gives a **** they're in Qatar, how is that winning the lottery? There's no football tradition in Qatar and there will never be one. Ever. Why is the World Cup there? Just so we can... build some stadiums on the Arabian Peninsula? That. Is. STUPID.
 

ShiftyPowers

Make America Great Again
BTW, not to be a total curmudgeon, I was fully behind the England bid, but I think Russia will make a fine host. With or without plastic pitches (but hopefully without).
 

Sevillista

Starting XI
ShiftyPowers;2959796 said:
Ohhhh no no no no.

I spent my time in the People's Republic of Madison same as you. I actually consider the modern Democratic Party too right wing to get any of my votes anymore.

USA media isn't big on soccer, it's a minority sport, but in a country of 350 million (probably up to that now) with an immigrant tradition and the internet allowing anyone who wants to follow foreign leagues closely to do so, we are an ideal location for the World Cup. You could probably fill 50% of the games with American citizen soccer fans supporting the nation of their ancestors. Qatar... honestly I doubt anyone there gives two ****s about the World Cup except for a couple die hards and the sheiks who's pockets will be lined with cash.

The rest of your points, while valid, don't really get at anything material to the situation. Okay it's a better dictatorship than the previous one. Great. Still not a good thing. FIFA isn't as corrupt as some organizations. Great. They're still pretty corrupt.

New stadiums... in Qatar. Who gives a **** they're in Qatar, how is that winning the lottery? There's no football tradition in Qatar and there will never be one. Ever. Why is the World Cup there? Just so we can... build some stadiums on the Arabian Peninsula? That. Is. STUPID.
Right, my points were mainly that you were exaggerating quite a bit. For example, your reasonable paragraph above about the USA is a far cry from your earlier "large population dying for a world cup." Fact still remains that the vast majority of the country doesn't care.

Where we seem to be disagreeing here is that you see this as a matter of which country should be rewarded, whereas I care more about which country has the most to offer. Qatar is probably the least "deserving," but has the most to offer.

Would you rather watch a match on TV being played at FedEx Field, or this:




Russia's civil rights and Chechen terrorism issues don't bother you but Qatar's dress code and one terrorist attack do?
 
Sevillista;2959801 said:
Would you rather watch a match on TV being played at FedEx Field, or this:


FedEx field, at least it wasn't built with slave labour like all the stadiums in Qatar will be.
 

itsbeenpickedup

Youth Team
Clearly I wanted England to get it and I'm sure the whole process is full of corruption and is generally ****, but at least Russia have: Qualified for World Cups before; a reasonable domestic league; decent sized population to appreciate it; will probably provide a competitive team. i.e they aren't a complete joke location.

Qatar on the other hand doesn't make any sense: No football history; tiny country with tiny population - who actually benefits? You could select a country where tens of millions actually care or a country with a population of less than 2 million and a **** team. I don't really see what 'legacy' they will be getting. They have no population and a terrible climate. They are never going to transform into a meaningful force in world football. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it will definitely be a disaster, but it almost seems like hosting it at a temporarily erected neutral venue than picking a real host.
 

farmboy

Reserve Team
Sevillista;2959801 said:
Qatar is probably the least "deserving," but has the most to offer.
This. They can and will build stadia which are specifically designed for soccer and for the event and they'll bend over backward to ensure that every possible aspect of the tournament runs harmoniously since they'll know the whole world will be watching.
As for why the U.S.'s bid failed, I was never very impressed by what was offered, and I had a pro-US bias. Aside from the fact that we hosted not long ago, the country is just too big. FIFA shouldn't need to expect fans to buy New York to LA plane tickets to watch multiple matches. If the U.S. wants to host again, we HAVE to HAVE to HAVE to make it a regional bid. New England could realistically put on a good world cup. But if you spread it across the entire country, it won't work. It didn't really work in '94.
Finally, our final choice of stadiums was frankly terrible. Every last one is designed for american football, which makes a difference. Among other things, the added width of a soccer field can make for a tight fit, and almost all football stadiums have raised seating. Hell, four of the fields had astroturf!
Anyway, it'll be interesting to see how this all works out. I'm not going to damn or defend Qatar too much yet.
 

Xifio

The Von Trapps
ShiftyPowers;2959796 said:
You could probably fill 50% of the games with American citizen soccer fans supporting the nation of their ancestors. Qatar... honestly I doubt anyone there gives two ****s about the World Cup except for a couple die hards and the sheiks who's pockets will be lined with cash.

New stadiums... in Qatar. Who gives a **** they're in Qatar, how is that winning the lottery? There's no football tradition in Qatar and there will never be one. Ever. Why is the World Cup there? Just so we can... build some stadiums on the Arabian Peninsula? That. Is. STUPID.
in this post, you could essentially replace all references to Qatar with USA, and replace the USA references with any other "traditional" footballing nation, and you'd get what I'm sure a ton of people said when the USA was given the World Cup in 1994 ... the USA weren't "deserving" then, but it kick-started investment (time and money) in the sport following a very successful World Cup, and the sport is growing wonderfully welll ... it's all about legacy ... it doesn't matter that you don't want to accept it when it is someone else's turn ...



---


as for the technological advancements necessary:

non-scientists thinking they know anything about the fluid dynamics involved in the stadium temperature control undertaking, think again (or begin to actually think, whichever is applicable to you each) ... as a studying and researching engineer, I know first-hand how long a time 5 years is in engineering technology, let alone 12 ...

but even the layperson (including the all the "educated" non-engineers and non-scientists) can appreciate what such a gap in time can mean: just look at consumer electronics and consumer-oriented technology (including the internet) in 1998, and compare that to what we have now; it is a different world of capability we live in ... anyone who thinks time isn't a factor is just being obtuse ...
 

ShearerM4

Fan Favourite
Alcohol being allowed is BS. FIFA should have Qatar adhere by their traditions regarding that and women (and the gays).

... oh and of course by 2022 they will also have that long standing tradition of blowing into plastic horns dating all the way back to 2010.
 

ShiftyPowers

Make America Great Again
Sevillista;2959801 said:
Would you rather watch a match on TV being played at FedEx Field, or this:

In all honesty, I think the US has the best stadiums if we can extend the lower rows to get closer to the field. FedEx, Jerry's House, the new Medowlands, Soldier Field, University of Phoenix Stadium, Reliant Stadium, Qwest Field, and in 12 years there's a high possibility that there will be a state of the art facility in Los Angeles. And those are already built. (EDIT: I guess maybe a few of those have fieldturf which is less than ideal, although Russia uses the stuff too, so I'm not sure it's really a huge deal breaker).

Xifio, you say a lot of what I'm saying about Qatar could be said about the US in 1994... that's only sort of true. The immigrant population and tradition here means that even though soccer may not have been mainstream there are still tons of people who would go to games. Not to mention that Qatar's population is 1.6 million which doesn't really suggest they have any potential to be even a good soccer team ever whereas the USA had about 250 million people in 1994 and the largest media and economic market in the world (meaning that even if the sport never took off, the Cup would be MASSIVELY successful from a coverage and economic standpoint).

Chechen terrorism doesn't really bother me because Russia has the resources to get security into place to keep the World Cup safe. The same way the recent attacks in Spain and England wouldn't really bother me had they been selected for the World Cup. Their civil rights aren't ideal, but they are okay.
 

Xifio

The Von Trapps
ShiftyPowers;2959919 said:
Xifio, you say a lot of what I'm saying about Qatar could be said about the US in 1994... that's only sort of true. The immigrant population and tradition here means that even though soccer may not have been mainstream there are still tons of people who would go to games. Not to mention that Qatar's population is 1.6 million which doesn't really suggest they have any potential to be even a good soccer team ever whereas the USA had about 250 million people in 1994 and the largest media and economic market in the world (meaning that even if the sport never took off, the Cup would be MASSIVELY successful from a coverage and economic standpoint).
India has nearly 1 and a half billion people, but they can't find 11 players good enough for a World Cup campaign ... the Netherlands have had decades of amazing teams, and they only have around 15 million people now ... bigger isn't always better ... each case is unique ... it takes several factors to mobilize a sleeping giant, and it takes several different factors to spark interest in a smaller region ...

also, I don't think you're considering that Qatar's role in the grand scheme of footballing matters may stretch further than just being able to field a competitive team ... driving scientific breakthroughs and setting standards in stadium technology would just be one of several examples I can provide just off the top of my head ...
 

Pogba4Now

Team Captain
ShiftyPowers;2959919 said:
In all honesty, I think the US has the best stadiums if we can extend the lower rows to get closer to the field. FedEx, Jerry's House, the new Medowlands, Soldier Field, University of Phoenix Stadium, Reliant Stadium, Qwest Field, and in 12 years there's a high possibility that there will be a state of the art facility in Los Angeles. And those are already built. (EDIT: I guess maybe a few of those have fieldturf which is less than ideal, although Russia uses the stuff too, so I'm not sure it's really a huge deal breaker).

Xifio, you say a lot of what I'm saying about Qatar could be said about the US in 1994... that's only sort of true. The immigrant population and tradition here means that even though soccer may not have been mainstream there are still tons of people who would go to games. Not to mention that Qatar's population is 1.6 million which doesn't really suggest they have any potential to be even a good soccer team ever whereas the USA had about 250 million people in 1994 and the largest media and economic market in the world (meaning that even if the sport never took off, the Cup would be MASSIVELY successful from a coverage and economic standpoint).

Chechen terrorism doesn't really bother me because Russia has the resources to get security into place to keep the World Cup safe. The same way the recent attacks in Spain and England wouldn't really bother me had they been selected for the World Cup. Their civil rights aren't ideal, but they are okay.

What actually makes you think that Qatar is all about Sheikhs and money? Thats ridiculous. You're just making assumptions without knowing **** about the country.

I have been to some middle eastern countries (Dubai, Egypt) and they are FAR more into football than Americans. Go to any arab country and you'll be surprised. Football is the main sport they follow on TV there. They especially follow the EPL and Serie A.

You're just pissed off because a "small" arab country of 1.6 millions people won the bid over your country. I don't see what more the USA has to offer than Qatar.
 

RobbieD_PL

Unreliable deceiver
Staff member
Moderator
BTW, Qatar's population isn't actually 1,6 million the whole year round, most are migrant workers who go back to their home countries to avoid the summer heat. :D
 
RobbieD_PL;2959948 said:
BTW, Qatar's population isn't actually 1,6 million the whole year round, most are migrant workers who go back to their home countries to avoid the summer heat. :D

Except for the one's not allowed to leave, pretty shameful actually that FIFA turns a blind eye to this. If anything the players should make a statement and boycott playing there.

http://gvnet.com/humantrafficking/Qatar.htm
 

ShiftyPowers

Make America Great Again
Nady;2959947 said:
I have been to some middle eastern countries (Dubai, Egypt) and they are FAR more into football than Americans. Go to any arab country and you'll be surprised. Football is the main sport they follow on TV there. They especially follow the EPL and Serie A.

You're just pissed off because a "small" arab country of 1.6 millions people won the bid over your country. I don't see what more the USA has to offer than Qatar.

You're being stupid. Maybe the average person in Qatar is a much bigger soccer fan than the average person in America, but there are 10 or probably even 100 times more hardcore soccer fans in the USA than in Qatar.

And you're ******* right I'm pissed that a small country (how is "small" even in quotation marks in this post? You're suggesting it's not that small? something like the 160th largest country in the world) won the World Cup over USA and Australia. Like I said, there are TONS more diehard soccer fans in our two countries than in Qatar, and both nations are teams that actually make the World Cup by qualifying and will probably do so for the forseeable future (Oz might struggle at times, but seems like they're in maybe the 3rd best in Asia right now).

So we're giving Qatar a World Cup because of "stadium technology"? That is stupid. That is ridiculously stupid. There isn't even freedom of religion in this country and it's rewarded with the greatest sporting event in the world.
 


Top