Copa Libertadores 2008.

[El Diablo Rojo]

The wednesday were the draws for the 49th edition of the south american club championship.

The past winners:
1960: Peñarol(URU)
1961: Peñarol(URU)
1962: Santos FC(BRA)
1963: Santos FC(BRA)
1964: Independiente(ARG)
1965: Independiente(ARG)
1966: Peñarol(URU)
1967: Racing Club(ARG)
1968: Estudiantes LP(ARG)
1969: Estudiantes LP(ARG)
1970: Estudiantes LP(ARG)
1971: Club Nacional(URU)
1972: Independiente(ARG)
1973: Independiente(ARG)
1974: Independiente(ARG)
1975: Independiente(ARG)
1976: Cruzeiro EC(BRA)
1977: Boca Juniors(ARG)
1978: Boca Juniors(ARG)
1979: Olimpia(PAR)
1980: Club Nacional(URU)
1981: CR Flamengo(BRA)
1982: Peñarol(URU)
1983: Grêmio FBPA(BRA)
1984: Independiente(ARG)
1985: Argentinos Juniors(ARG)
1986: River Plate(ARG)
1987: Peñarol(URU)
1988: Club Nacional(URU)
1989: Atlético Nacional(COL)
1990: Olimpia(PAR)
1991: CSD Colo Colo(CHI)
1992: São Paulo FC(BRA)
1993: São Paulo FC(BRA)
1994: Vélez Sarsfield(ARG)
1995: Grêmio FBPA(BRA)
1996: River Plate(ARG)
1997: Cruzeiro EC(BRA)
1998: CR Vasco da Gama(BRA)
1999: SE Palmeiras(BRA)
2000: Boca Juniors(ARG)
2001: Boca Juniors(ARG)
2002: Olimpia(PAR)
2003: Boca Juniors(ARG)
2004: Once Caldas(COL)
2005: São Paulo FC(BRA)
2006: SC Internacional(BRA)
2007: Boca Juniors(ARG)

And so things are ready for 2008.

First round - Qualifying round
Key 1(K1): CD Olmedo(ECU) vs. Lanús(ARG)
Key 2(K2): Cruzeiro EC(BRA) vs. Cerro Porteño(PAR)
Key 3(K3): Arsenal FC(ARG) vs. AC Mineros de Guayana(VEN)
Key 4(K4): FC Atlas(MEX) vs. La Paz FC(BOL)
Key 5(K5): Cienciano(PER) vs. Montevideo Wanderers FC(URU)
Key 6(K6): Boyacá Chicó FC(COL) vs. Audax Italiano(CHI)

Second round - Groups stage

Group 1
- San Lorenzo(ARG)
- Real Potosí(BOL)
- Caracas FC(VEN)
- Winner of K2

Group 2
- Estudiantes LP(ARG)
- Danubio FC(URU)
- Deportivo Cuenca(ECU)
- Winner of K1

Group 3
- Boca Juniors(ARG)
- CSD Colo Colo(CHI)
- UA Maracaibo(VEN)
- Winner of K4

Group 4
- CR Flamengo(BRA)
- Club Nacional(URU)
- Coronel Bolognesi FC(PER)
- Winner of K5

Group 5
- River Plate(ARG)
- CD Universidad Católica(CHI)
- Universidad San Martín(PER)
- CF América(MEX)

Group 6
- Santos FC(BRA)
- Club San José(BOL)
- Cúcuta Deportivo(COL)
- CD Guadalajara(MEX)

Group 7
- São Paulo FC(BRA)
- Sportivo Luqueño(PAR)
- Atlético Nacional(COL)
- Winner of K6

Group 8
- Fluminense FC(BRA)
- Libertad(PAR)
- LDU Quito(ECU)
- Winner of K3

Hmm... Group 8 looks like the group of death this time.

The qualifying round would start on January 30th, the exact schedule of the qualifying round and the groups stage should be announced by next week.

EDIT 28/12/2007: Chile is complete now only Mexico 2 & 3 left.

EDIT 13/1/2008: The Interliga finished so now we have completed the participants.

 

[Chacarita Juniors]

What about Group 7 dude? All three teams were champions during the 2007 season and if Audax Italiano wins K7, that will be another pretty good team. True about Group 8 though, it's probably the toughest.

The ball... http://www.mediotiempo.com/noticia.php?id_noticia=49735

 

[Bummy_JaB]

To many teams from Brazil and Argentina. A total of 10 together. Might as well call it Copa Argezil or sum ish like that.

 

[Dante_1901]

To many teams from Brazil and Argentina. A total of 10 together. Might as well call it Copa Argezil or sum ish like that.

Hell yeah. That is because Argentina and Brazil practically own the Conmebol, plus ... we all know that Fox Sports Argentina and Torneos y Competencias set the time in the Libertadores, matches are played when they want to.

 

[Lennon]

Hell yeah. That is because Argentina and Brazil practically own the Conmebol, plus ... we all know that Fox Sports Argentina and Torneos y Competencias set the time in the Libertadores, matches are played when they want to.

The Libertadores should go back to the old days and have two teams per country or maybe even 3 but it definitely should be an even number of clubs for every country

 

[Ruben Sosa]

Club Nacional(URU)

It's actually just Nacional, or Club Nacional de Football for the full name. No one calls it Club Nacional, and would actually make it confusing if we did, as there is a "Club Nacional" (that's it's full name) in Paraguay.

The Libertadores should go back to the old days and have two teams per country or maybe even 3 but it definitely should be an even number of clubs for every country

I don't know if going back to 2 teams per nations is the best answer, but I agree that some drastic changes are needed. As it is, the cup's structured to favor the presence of Argentinean and Brazilian teams through each round. It's shameful.

First step would be scraping the worthless qualifying round. Additionally, if we must have Mexicans in the cup, then it should be only one, the champion.

 

[jimorrizon]

It's actually just Nacional, or Club Nacional de Football for the full name. No one calls it Club Nacional, and would actually make it confusing if we did, as there is a "Club Nacional" (that's it's full name) in Paraguay.



I don't know if going back to 2 teams per nations is the best answer, but I agree that some drastic changes are needed. As it is, the cup's structured to favor the presence of Argentinean and Brazilian teams through each round. It's shameful.

First step would be scraping the worthless qualifying round. Additionally, if we must have

Mexicans in the cup, then it should be only one, the champion.

1 why you scared of 3? plus in reality it is only 2 direct spots the 3rd one is up for grabs in the

qualifier against some south american club. you think that with 1 their is a less chance of

Mexican team making it to the final. pathetic.

plus it's never that years Champion because they are forced to go Concacaf tournament. so in

reality Conmebol catches a break because they actually get last years Champion in

representation of Mexico 1 and sometimes even the Champion from 2 years ago. imagine if it was

actually the Champion of that year, pretty sure Mexican team would have won the

brargbertadores by now....

 

[Lennon]

I don't know if going back to 2 teams per nations is the best answer, but I agree that some drastic changes are needed. As it is, the cup's structured to favor the presence of Argentinean and Brazilian teams through each round. It's shameful.

First step would be scraping the worthless qualifying round. Additionally, if we must have Mexicans in the cup, then it should be only one, the champion.

PG, I think it should be as follows:
-3 teams per CONMEBOL country (there are 10 competing countries) = 30
-1 Mexican team
-Previous year champion

That brings a total of 32 teams, so the World Cup format can be used (8 groups of 4, then the knockout stages)

 

[adobe_sun]

There are really way too many Brazilian and Argentinian clubs there. I mean, it gets somehow boring at times. I just wonder how did Once Caldas managed to win it way back in 2004. it must have been a very hard job to do

 

[Ruben Sosa]

1 why you scared of 3?

An intense case of spontaneous laughter caused me to stop reading your post after this sentence. Knowing you though, I don't think I'm missing anything important.

PG, I think it should be as follows:
-3 teams per CONMEBOL country (there are 10 competing countries) = 30
-1 Mexican team
-Previous year champion

That brings a total of 32 teams, so the World Cup format can be used (8 groups of 4, then the knockout stages)

That would be ideal. It would be interesting to see how it'd work in practice.

 

[El Diablo Rojo]

I find it a bit shameful that mexican teams which don't belong here get the same spots of the other countries that aren't Argentina or Brazil. They should be the ones to get the lesser spots.

I was thinking a fair way to do it, of course this is if Mexico didn't take part was to keep the qualifying rounds but have 40 teams in total, 4 per country, 24 go directly to the groups stage and 16 meet in the qualifying round, so 4 countries get 3 direct spots and the other 6 get 2, it could be decided by a coefficient, average or whatever they can come up with to decide who gets 3 or 2 spots.

The Libertadores should go back to the old days and have two teams per country or maybe even 3 but it definitely should be an even number of clubs for every country

The problem with that is that the groups were shared by 2 countries, when Independiente won in 1972 their group was made of 2 argentine and 2 colombian teams, the other groups were, Bolivia & Ecuador, Brazil & Paraguay, Peru & Chile and Uruguay & Venezuela. A thing that today it isn't seen with good eyes to have 2 teams of the same country in a group.

 

[Ruben Sosa]

The qualifying round is simply an excuse to add more Argentinean and Brazilian teams without automatically taking away quals spots from other countries while at the same time making some more money. From a sporting perspective, it adds nothing to the competition. I'd scrap it.

A thing that today it isn't seen with good eyes to have 2 teams of the same country in a group.

It happens pretty often though. Look at Group 4, whether Cienciano or Wanderers go though, there'll be two teams from either Peru or Uruguay in it. Same in Group 2, with Olmedo or Lanus joining Deportivo Cuenca and Estudiantes LP, and it'll also happen in Group 6 should Boyacá Chicó eliminate Audax.

And it happened last year too, with Flamengo and Paraná and Cúcuta and Tolima being in the same group.

 

[big al]

their is no doubt the libertadores is at the next corner, cause the mexican club ranting has already began once again by the usual suspects lol..... if they take the mexican clubs out you guys would end up with with a 3th rank teams from venezuela or bolivia in their place so go figure... remember people its call a competition, you know what the word stands for right?.....guess not...

 

[VanTheMin]

yeah i agree with big al..totally he has a point...



BHENCHOD....for what BHENCHOD

 

[El Diablo Rojo]

their is no doubt the libertadores is at the next corner, cause the mexican club ranting has already began once again by the usual suspects lol..... if they take the mexican clubs out you guys would end up with with a 3th rank teams from venezuela or bolivia in their place so go figure... remember people its call a competition, you know what the word stands for right?.....guess not...

3rd rank teams from Venezuela are already competing but they are forced to play the qualifier and i don't mind them taking place instead of the mexicans, the mexicans don't belong here, and the ones who would end up losing would be the mexicans after all, also the CONMEBOL would stop money whoring, which would also be a good thing.

It happens pretty often though. Look at Group 4, whether Cienciano or Wanderers go though, there'll be two teams from either Peru or Uruguay in it. Same in Group 2, with Olmedo or Lanus joining Deportivo Cuenca and Estudiantes LP, and it'll also happen in Group 6 should Boyacá Chicó eliminate Audax.

While it is very hard to avoid, like you said Group 2 is the prime example and 4 is in the same situation, i guess it's bound to happen when only 10/11 countries involved, the matter is last year colombians weren't happy that not only they are given few spots but they get 2 teams in the same group. Probably if the qualifying round and the groups stage had separated draws it would be easier to avoid that.

I agree with ronnifan9 that 7 looks very tough too, i also think that 5 could be a potential group of death. Also is it me or there are low expectations about the peruvian sides this year?

 

[Lennon]

The problem with that is that the groups were shared by 2 countries, when Independiente won in 1972 their group was made of 2 argentine and 2 colombian teams, the other groups were, Bolivia & Ecuador, Brazil & Paraguay, Peru & Chile and Uruguay & Venezuela. A thing that today it isn't seen with good eyes to have 2 teams of the same country in a group.

Yeah but the "new" format that I proposed doesn't necessarily have to be that way. The 3 teams from Brazil and Argentina can be the head of the groups (for the first 6 grups) and then have maybe the Mexican team and the previous year champion to be the remaining two heads of the group to complete all 8.
Then, in the "sorteo" somehow have them distribute the clubs so that teams from the same country don't fall in the same group

 

[El Diablo Rojo]

Hmm. That way could be a good idea, though it may be unfair that the argentine and the brazilians get seeded by default. The issues of the mexican teams taking part on the Libertadores and/or CONCACAF teams in the Sudamericana may be solved on the CONCACAF Champions League starts, let's see if they'll still care about our tournaments.

 

[#1 Stunna]

Oh trust me the CONCACAF Champions league wont mean Carlos sh*t. Theyll "kinda" try, cuz if they win they be in the World Club Championship, but no one really cares for it. Yeah its our region bla bla bla, but Mexican teams couldnt care less for the CONCACAF club titles.

 

[big al]

here come america and atlas.... after seeing the america vs cruz azul match, i just cant seem to grasp why they dont want them in the tournament.... cant believe some call mexican clubs "pechos frios"....

 

[El Diablo Rojo]

And so today the qualifying round starts.

Today
Arsenal FC(ARG) vs. AC Mineros de Guayana(VEN)

Wednesday 30/1
Cruzeiro EC(BRA) vs. Cerro Porteño(PAR)
FC Atlas(MEX) vs. La Paz FC(BOL)

Thursday 31/1
CD Olmedo(ECU) vs. Lanús(ARG)
Cienciano(PER) vs. Montevideo Wanderers FC(URU)

Not related to the Libertadores, but CSF related: http://www.conmebol.com/articulos_ver.jsp?id=61730&slangab=E