Le Tour de France

[Alex]

All you need to know is that as soon as they got the drugs out the good ol' rule obeying Brits have won two consecutive TdFs and a record haul of olympic medals.

Everyone wins loads of medals at home Olympics.

The major turn around in British cycling had nothing to do with drugs being eliminated from the sport.

The main turning point was the money they pumped into the program once London won the Olympic bid, and hiring the Aussie coach, Shane Sutton.

Cycling is the most tested sport in the world, and it's not clean. I'm not saying cycling is a dirty sport, I'm saying all sport is dirty. Cyclists get away with it when they're more tested + have blood passports etc. Imagine what they're getting away with in the more lax sports - especially games like tennis where there is much much more money on the line.

 

[Sepak]

I'm pretty sure such a humble man like Nairo isn't doping, the only thing crossing his veins is pure effort, dedication and "Agua de Panela".

 

[Alex]

I'm pretty sure such a humble man like Nairo isn't doping, the only thing crossing his veins is pure effort, dedication and "Agua de Panela".

I hope not.

But being from a poor/humble background means little once you're in Europe in the big game.

Climbers and GC riders are who benefit the most.

 

[Zlatan]

In the Armstrong days they didn't have the blood passport. Hell, during his first years they didn't have EPO nor bloodtests yet.

With the blood passport it's now very easy for doping authorities to see abnormal changes and riders can get banned through this. These same authorities also say they see the hematocrit values drop heavily since the passport was introduced in 2009. All the major doping issues of the last years (except for maybe the Contador one, which was never fully proven) have been about the period before this blood passport was instated.

I'm confident the sport is way cleaner. I'm not saying completely clean, 'cause there will always be stupid ones. But I do believe Froome when he says this victory will stand the test of time. The reason why Sky is dominating is not because of doping, but because they use a far more professional training system then most other teams. In the future other teams will start doing the same and the differences won't be as big.

 

[Alex]

In the Armstrong days they didn't have the blood passport. Hell, during his first years they didn't have EPO nor bloodtests yet.

Blood testing started in cycling in 1997, including red cell counts for EPO. Lance first win the tour in 99.

During Lance's comeback, the blood passport was well and truly implemented. Do you believe that he came back into cycling, against guys who were likely doping, in his very late 30s, after years out, and finished so high in the tour without doping?

With the blood passport it's now very easy for doping authorities to see abnormal changes and riders can get banned through this. These same authorities also say they see the hematocrit values drop heavily since the passport was introduced in 2009. All the major doping issues of the last years (except for maybe the Contador one, which was never fully proven) have been about the period before this blood passport was instated.

And just as in Lance's time, the team doctors are entirely aware of what is being looked for, tested for etc. They control the values, just as they did in the Lance era.

I'm confident the sport is way cleaner. I'm not saying completely clean, 'cause there will always be stupid ones. But I do believe Froome when he says this victory will stand the test of time. The reason why Sky is dominating is not because of doping, but because they use a far more professional training system then most other teams. In the future other teams will start doing the same and the differences won't be as big.

This is the argument Sky will have you believe. I find it quite insulting to the rest of the peleton (and to the fans) that they expect us to believe their team is so much stronger because of these training methods that nobody else has thought of before, or had worked out after two - three years of using them. Cyclists, coaches and directors change teams, but nobody has brought along with them the secret to Sky's success? Rogers didn't pass on the secret to Saxo?

As for professionalism, that's a ridiculous claim. In a team sport worth millions, to even consider that a team wouldn't be doing all they can, just as Sky are, too be a fully professional outfit.

 

[Zlatan]

I don't know. I just think it's ridiculous to start second guessing someone's performance on basis of nothing except for the fact that some unrelated American in the same sport did dope ten to fifteen years ago.

I see Froome as a clean winner. And I will continue to do so as long as there's no clear evidence to suggest he's used doping.

 

[vitranc]

it is impossible to know for sure, but i also believe he is clean

 

[Sir Didier Drogba]

Everyone wins loads of medals at home Olympics.

Well, we also won loads in Beijing. But I guess China is pretty much exactly the same as Britain.

 

[Alex]

I don't know. I just think it's ridiculous to start second guessing someone's performance on basis of nothing except for the fact that some unrelated American in the same sport did dope ten to fifteen years ago.

I see Froome as a clean winner. And I will continue to do so as long as there's no clear evidence to suggest he's used doping.

Which is exactly what everyone said about lance and USPS

 

[Alex]

Well, we also won loads in Beijing. But I guess China is pretty much exactly the same as Britain.

Yeah you did. I was bitter about that, Australia were between generations. Our issue is that all our young cyclists go to road early on, as they can't do track professionally. Sky pumps loads of money into the British track programme.

Anyway, all your cycling gold at Beijing was track not road, do nothing to do with TdF

 

[Zlatan]

Which is exactly what everyone said about lance and USPS

So? Why should Froome, or anyone else of today's riders, have anything to do with that?

Being extremely skeptical and cynical about everything cycling is not going to help the sport anywhere.

 

[Alex]

So? Why should Froome, or anyone else of today's riders, have anything to do with that?

Being extremely skeptical and cynical about everything cycling is not going to help the sport anywhere.

You don't have to remind me of that. I have been, and will remain a huge fan of the sport for years.

What is suspicious about Froome and Wiggins before him is how dominant they were. And how they rode so well in both mountains and time trials - something which had never been done that much until the going era.

Not going to have this debate here though. I discuss it with more knowledgeable people at the cycling news forums.

 

[Zlatan]

Excuse me? Oh I'm sorry I'm not so knowledgeable. I've only been following the sport since I was five and have seen the races (not just the Tour) live multiple times, writing for a major Dutch cyclist news site, talking to riders and managers in the process. I'm sorry my ignorant opinion is not worth your time. :/

Anyway, the fact that Froome and Wiggins were so dominant in the past versions could have a million reasons from which doping is one. Speculating is not a very useful way of analyzing cycling.

 

[Alex]

Sorry just reread that.I meant more people, purely dedicated to it

 

[Alex]

Anyway, the fact that Froome and Wiggins were so dominant in the past versions could have a million reasons from which doping is one. Speculating is not a very useful way of analyzing cycling.

No it's not. But people analysing the power output, people seeing the sudden dominance - especially in a way so similar to that of Armstrong, and to see guys like Contador beaten so comfortably rings alarm bells.

I love the sport of cycling, it's far and away my favourite sport, but I often think they're often their own worst enemy - they catch, and chase dopers too much at times.

In no other sport would Lance Armstrong have been stripped so long after the event. In no other sport would it have been chased up. It's nothing to do with the money or success - why wasn't Carl Lewis ever chased in a similar was What about Operación Puerto, why was it only cycling that sanctioned anyone over those events?

I'm not saying that they shouldn't chase dopers, but they have created a bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy, and now people consider it the most doped sport in the world. I still don't think it's any worse than ANY professional sport. When physical skill/fitness is involved, science can help. Any sport with large amounts of money involved - tennis, football, formula 1, basketball, American Football etc, is going to make the most of this money. Not sure why there seems to be this attitude that it's only cycling. It's finally coming out in Australia - in other sports (Rugby League and Aussie Rules Football the two big ones), and again the governing bodies and media want to cover it up. They want to say it's a witch hunt etc, where as when it's cycling, straight away it's "Another cheating cyclist". It frustrates the hell out of me.

But having said all that, my eyes have been opened, I'm no longer willing to just accept what I don't believe. If it's too good to be true, it probably isn't. Marginal Gains and Sky is a load of crap. There is loads of pointers, nothing concrete but it all adds up - just as it did during Lance's time. It doesn't mean Froome is guilty, but it shows that tests etc are no indication. The blood doping and EPO that Lance used can now be tested for quite effectively, so they would be using something else. The circle continues.

 

[Alex]

http://veloclinic.tumblr.com/post/54770388624/tour-de-france-2013-stage-8-dpvam-ax3-warning-shot

 

[Sir Didier Drogba]

Yeah you did. I was bitter about that, Australia were between generations. Our issue is that all our young cyclists go to road early on, as they can't do track professionally. Sky pumps loads of money into the British track programme.

Anyway, all your cycling gold at Beijing was track not road, do nothing to do with TdF

Exactly, we dominate track and road now

 

[Alex]

Exactly, we dominate track and road now

Or at least track and the tdf....don't want you Brits becoming USA II and thinking that there us only one road race every year.

 

[Alex]

And it seems Cavendish isn't even the best sprinter in the world anymore.

That might change next year when he gets my buddy Mark Renshaw back

 

[Sir Didier Drogba]

Cavendish has struggled the last couple of years, other teams gang up on him.