Middle East war

Hendrik

Team Captain
Virgo said:
I wonder why they keep spawning...
So what's your solution instead of destroying their infrastructure and killing their leaders? You can't negotiate with them as seen prior to the current conflict. But hey, let's rather wait until another suicide bomber hits the Western World again.
 

The_Knight

Senior Squad
-Vince- said:
So what's your solution instead of destroying their infrastructure and killing their leaders? You can't negotiate with them as seen prior to the current conflict.

Say u move into ur neighbour's backyard, kill some of his children, and kill away his related families sitting there at his backyard. Then you build some small houses in this seized yard, while kidnapping and killing some already in your neighbours house, to further secure ur seized land. Then, when ur neighbour starts attacking you, you say, "Let's live in Peace".

Then, you start "defending yourself" against his attacks. And keep on saying, "Let's live in Peace".

You want to know what Peace is? Peace is just. Peace is satisfying to everyone. And Peace has no shortcuts.

You don't invade an entire country, kidnap, massacre and bomb the hell out of it, to acheive "Peace". You acheive "Peace" by returning what isn't yours. By giving people their rights. By eliminating the "cause" of their rightful war against you.

Now its only logical, that out of desperation, the Palestenians would, after years of suffering, resort to WRONG methods of regaining what is rightfully theirs, like the very recent "suicide bombings". And I say "VERY RECENT" in relation to the nature of the Israeli-Palestenian conflict. In contrast to the Israeli massacres that haven't stopped since its establishment in 1948.

"Peace" has no magic buttons. You can't cheat your way into Peace. You acheive Peace, by giving away what rightfully isn't yours. By removing the "houses" you built in your neighbours backyard, and by returning his kidnapped "kids" over the years. And by allowing the "kids" you sent away to "other houses in the neighbourhood" to come back to their home.
 

FFC2004

Senior Squad
The_Knight said:
Say u move into ur neighbour's backyard, kill some of his children, and kill away his related families sitting there at his backyard. Then you build some small houses in this seized yard, while kidnapping and killing some already in your neighbours house, to further secure ur seized land. Then, when ur neighbour starts attacking you, you say, "Let's live in Peace".

Then, you start "defending yourself" against his attacks. And keep on saying, "Let's live in Peace".

You want to know what Peace is? Peace is just. Peace is satisfying to everyone. And Peace has no shortcuts.

You don't invade an entire country, kidnap, massacre and bomb the hell out of it, to acheive "Peace". You acheive "Peace" by returning what isn't yours. By giving people their rights. By eliminating the "cause" of their rightful war against you.

Now its only logical, that out of desperation, the Palestenians would, after years of suffering, resort to WRONG methods of regaining what is rightfully theirs, like the very recent "suicide bombings". And I say "VERY RECENT" in relation to the nature of the Israeli-Palestenian conflict. In contrast to the Israeli massacres that haven't stopped since its establishment in 1948.

"Peace" has no magic buttons. You can't cheat your way into Peace. You acheive Peace, by giving away what rightfully isn't yours. By removing the "houses" you built in your neighbours backyard, and by returning his kidnapped "kids" over the years. And by allowing the "kids" you sent away to "other houses in the neighbourhood" to come back to their home.

And then you get planes flying into scyscrapers.
 
V

Virgo

Guest
-Vince- said:
So what's your solution instead of destroying their infrastructure and killing their leaders? You can't negotiate with them as seen prior to the current conflict. But hey, let's rather wait until another suicide bomber hits the Western World again.


FOR F*CK SAKE Is it so hard to understand that if you kill them and destroy their infrasctructure, more local people will gain hatred towards Israel and become militants as well and rebuild the infrastructure and it will NEVER end.

What you defend Israel should do is what they've been doing for OVER 50 years and the result is there for everyone to look at.


Israel was never really serious about negotiations apart from Yitzhak Rabin because they know they will have to concede rights and land do achieve peace and why would they negotiate if they can simply outpower everyone in the area militarily.
 

Hendrik

Team Captain
Virgo said:
FOR F*CK SAKE Is it so hard to understand that if you kill them and destroy their infrasctructure, more local people will gain hatred towards Israel and become militants as well and rebuild the infrastructure and it will NEVER end.
I asked you to provide solutions not to repeat your argument.

Israel was never really serious about negotiations apart from Yitzhak Rabin because they know they will have to concede rights and land do achieve peace...
Do you actually believe Israel can achieve peace by returning the Shebaa farms back to Libanon? A few months later other terrorist organizations would also kidnap Israeli soldiers and make huge demands. How did you put it, "and it will never end" - correct, until Israel is wiped off the map.

Israel has carried out several prisoner swaps with Hezbollah in the past to obtain freedom for captures Israelis. These include a January 2004 swap in which an Israeli civilian and the bodies of three Israeli soldiers were exchanged for 436 Arab prisoners and the bodies of 59 Lebanese fighters. In 1985, three Israeli soldiers captured in Lebanon in 1982 were traded for 1,150 Lebanese and Palestinian prisoners.

Israel has brought this on herself by giving in to the terrorists in the past. You can't trade 3 soldiers for thousands of criminals.
 

D-12

Red Card - Forever.
Life Ban
The_Knight said:
Say u move into ur neighbour's backyard, kill some of his children, and kill away his related families sitting there at his backyard. Then you build some small houses in this seized yard, while kidnapping and killing some already in your neighbours house, to further secure ur seized land. Then, when ur neighbour starts attacking you, you say, "Let's live in Peace".

Then, you start "defending yourself" against his attacks. And keep on saying, "Let's live in Peace".

You want to know what Peace is? Peace is just. Peace is satisfying to everyone. And Peace has no shortcuts.

You don't invade an entire country, kidnap, massacre and bomb the hell out of it, to acheive "Peace". You acheive "Peace" by returning what isn't yours. By giving people their rights. By eliminating the "cause" of their rightful war against you.

Now its only logical, that out of desperation, the Palestenians would, after years of suffering, resort to WRONG methods of regaining what is rightfully theirs, like the very recent "suicide bombings". And I say "VERY RECENT" in relation to the nature of the Israeli-Palestenian conflict. In contrast to the Israeli massacres that haven't stopped since its establishment in 1948.

"Peace" has no magic buttons. You can't cheat your way into Peace. You acheive Peace, by giving away what rightfully isn't yours. By removing the "houses" you built in your neighbours backyard, and by returning his kidnapped "kids" over the years. And by allowing the "kids" you sent away to "other houses in the neighbourhood" to come back to their home.
Im gettin sick of ur stupid reactions every time.
When will u become a suicide bomber and end it already :rolleyes:
:rolleyes: I do what I must for Allah!!! :rolleyes:
 

The_Knight

Senior Squad
-Vince- said:
I asked you to provide solutions not to repeat your argument.
Solutions, other than giving back occupied land? Removing the illegal Israeli settlements on occupied land? Allowing Palestinian families back? Letting go those taken into custody with no trial over the past decades...etc?

Peace is just. Remember that.

-Vince- said:
A few months later other terrorist organizations would also kidnap Israeli soldiers and make huge demands. How did you put it, "and it will never end" - correct, until Israel is wiped off the map.
I agree. It was a foolish -yet legit- move to take these 2 soldiers into captivity. Israel would NEVER comply with their requests, coz simply, like u said, they'd do it again and again. There is only one way out of this pickle. The right way. NO shortcuts.

-Vince- said:
You can't trade 3 soldiers for thousands of criminals.
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3271505,00.html
 

cus

Banned
D-12 said:
Im gettin sick of ur stupid reactions every time.
When will u become a suicide bomber and end it already :rolleyes:
:rolleyes: I do what I must for Allah!!! :rolleyes:


I have no logical explanations to do for you.. I'm also getting sick of your idiotic racist 8-years-old comments.. do you think that people enjoy blowing up themselves in a bus?? then you're sick.. do you think that they do this all out of nothing?? then you're sick either.. if you're looking for a reason for that suicide bombs, fcuk off and look for them in your backyard.. I really have big problems to believe how ignorant some of you are...
 

rhizome17

Fan Favourite
-Vince- said:
Right, without the only democracy in the Middle East? :nape:
The world would be better off without terrorists.

Palestine democraically elected a government last year.

Israel didn't like what democracy in Palestine brought.

Lebanon democratically elected a government last year.

Israel didn't like what democracy brought.
 

D-12

Red Card - Forever.
Life Ban
cus said:
I have no logical explanations to do for you.. I'm also getting sick of your idiotic racist 8-years-old comments.. do you think that people enjoy blowing up themselves in a bus?? then you're sick.. do you think that they do this all out of nothing?? then you're sick either.. if you're looking for a reason for that suicide bombs, fcuk off and look for them in your backyard.. I really have big problems to believe how ignorant some of you are...
And that comes from a muslim :D :D :D
 

Elber2k3

Senior Squad
-Vince- said:
Right, without the only democracy in the Middle East? :nape:
The world would be better off without terrorists.
Democracy isn't the best form of government for all cultures. I mean why should you change things that worked before? And of course the world would be better without terrorists, but the most people who are dieing because of this Israeli act of terror are harmless civilians.
 

Krypton X

Senior Squad
Virgo said:
FOR F*CK SAKE Is it so hard to understand that if you kill them and destroy their infrasctructure, more local people will gain hatred towards Israel and become militants as well and rebuild the infrastructure and it will NEVER end.
That's true. A lot of Lebanese were initially very angry with Hizbullah for dragging them into this war which they neither needed nor asked for, and which has now cost them all the good work they've done in the past 15 or so years in rebuilding their country.
But with Israel going berserk and hitting back like some crazed animal, now so many people in Lebanon are beginning to side with Hizbullah and forget who actually started all this.

Aside from targetting the civilian infrastructure, and refusing to grant the fleeing locals and foreign nationals a ceasefire or give them any assurances of safety. The Israelis have bombed some areas where Hizbullah's presence is almost non-existent. Such as the Christian suburbs of East Beirut, the Sunni dominated Tripoli, and the Druze strongholds in the Chouf mountains. Other incidents which have raised question marks include the targetting of Lebanese army barracks, 19 Lebanese soldiers were killed in 3 seperate attacks, not to mention over 300 others who are for the most part innocent civilians (a third of them children). All this despite Israel stating that their problem was with Hizbullah and not the Lebanese people, and that their ultimate goal was the retrieval of their kidnapped soldiers and helping the Lebanese government and army by getting rid of Hizbullah and replacing them with Lebanese soldiers along the Israeli border.

I saw 2 interviews with the parents of the kidnapped Israeli soldiers and they were saying they didn't see how the war would help bring their sons back. In the end Israel will most probably have to bargain Hizbullah one way or another to get them. And it's looking like we'll have yet another Iraq situation in the Lebanese south. The Syrians would be sitting back and laughing their heads off, they'd be telling the Lebanese after you guys kicked us out of your country it hasn't even been a year yet and you've already got your asses owned.. again.
 

Krypton X

Senior Squad
-Vince- said:
So what's your solution instead of destroying their infrastructure and killing their leaders? You can't negotiate with them as seen prior to the current conflict. But hey, let's rather wait until another suicide bomber hits the Western World again.
Not sure if you realised this but Israel had occupyied south Lebanon for some 18 years (until they finally gave in and withdrew in 2000). During that time they were involved in countless heavy skirmishes with the Hizbullah guerrillas, and laid that whole part of the country to waste, if their eradication was so feasable I'm sure the Israelis would've already done it a long time ago. I don't know how people expect Israel to finish off Hizbollah this time within just 2 or 3 short weeks.

Just the other day they barely ventured into Hizbullah territory and still lost 4 soldiers, a couple of Merkava tanks and a helicopter. Another long term occupation would simply be unsustainable.
And if Israel fails to achieve what it set out to do. Not only will Hizbullah and its benefactors be much stronger for it, but the Lebanese government's capacity to do anything about them would be completely crippled. And with the current climate in the Middle East you can only expect thousands of Jihadists to stream into Lebanon from Iraq and other parts to "resist the occupation". The situation along the Israeli border could become even worse than what it already was.

There were several diplomatic routes that Israel could've taken to attempt avoiding this crisis. They could have at least approached the Lebanese government before this knowing full well that there are many staunch opponents of Hizbullah within that group, some of those were once good allies of Israel during the Lebanese civil war particularly the Maronites. They could have restrained themselves from attacking and offered to exchange at least some of the prisoners that Hizbullah wanted with the soldiers but only under the explict conditions that Hizbullah completely disbanded and relinquish their arms. They could've had the Americans push the Lebanese government and equip them to deal with the problem, since the Lebanese army is currently considerably weaker than Hizbollah. They could have offered more incentives to help gather greater pressure on Hizbullah, since its not just many Lebanese but several other Arab governments who want Hizbollah to disarm.


Hizbullah, Syria and Iran wanted a war each for their own self serving purposes and they were instantly granted their wish. All Israel has been doing is waving its finger around and saying if you don't do this we'll bomb you if you don't do that we'll crush you, they've hardly taken any positive or constructive steps to solve this problem in any non-confrontational way. Afghanistan is a mess, and Iraq is giving hell a good name. The Palestine conflict has persisted for almost 60 years with little sign of it being resolved any time soon. And still people keep saying the only solution is to use violence because that's the only language those Muslims will ever understand.
 

rhizome17

Fan Favourite
You are offering too much information for some of these people to take in Krypton. Sorry, I mean you are offering more information than they WANT to take in. People like D 12 like the simplicity of their beliefs because they don't have to engage/ think about the truth then.

You talked about democracy Vince, well palestine had a democratic election that saw Hamas elected freely and fairly. Wht des the US, EU and Israel do? Cut off their funding. What oes that do? Destabilise the government. What does that lead to? Exactly what we saw happen two weeks ago.

If you want democracy to work, then you have to LET it work. You don't go out of your way to destabilise it.
 

D-12

Red Card - Forever.
Life Ban
Elber2k3 said:
Democracy isn't the best form of government for all cultures. I mean why should you change things that worked before? And of course the world would be better without terrorists, but the most people who are dieing because of this Israeli act of terror are harmless civilians.
Yes,I never understand why they attacked Iraq because their goverment was working well. Everyone should do it like them ,attacking other countrys and killing your own people :rolleyes:
Dictators 4 life :rolleyes:
You know even talk more crap then The Knight good going :jambo:
 

Elber2k3

Senior Squad
D-12 said:
Yes,I never understand why they attacked Iraq because their goverment was working well. Everyone should do it like them ,attacking other countrys and killing your own people :rolleyes:
Dictators 4 life :rolleyes:
You know even talk more crap then The Knight good going :jambo:
Yeah I was talking about Iraq. Do you know Saudi Arabia? It's a monarchy and it's working. I they weren't good friends with the USA I wouldn't be surprised if they would attack them "for the protection of the USA" and then try to force them into democracy.
And I'm talking crap? Who would support a muslim "genocide" again? You or me?
 

m3th0d

Starting XI
If these terrorists put down their weapons, there would be no more war.

If Israel put down its weapons, there would be no more Israel.

Pretty simple.
 

rhizome17

Fan Favourite
D-12 said:
You know even talk more crap then The Knight good going :jambo:

Is that a sentence?

Anyway I know I am dealing with kids when they feel the need to make a reference to me in their sig. :ewan:

Still, when you need to mentally focus to keep breathing I guess it takes awhile for the oxygen to reach the upper regions of the body, what with gravity and all.
 


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