New Player Ratings/Attributes

[Royce]

I glanced over the DB from the demo & noticed a bunch of new Ratings/Attributes for the players, for some reasons I haven't seen this discussed at all here, which I found surprising.

I think a lot of the new additions could really help, namely the GK specific PUNCHER? attribute, because you rarely see GK's in 07 punch the ball.

Here's a list of the new stuff I saw:

positioning
tacticalawareness
comesforcrosses
diver
divesintotackles
earlycrosser
holdsup
latecrosser
longshottaker
longthrows
lowconcentration
onetimepasser
playmaker
puncher
pushesupforcorners
rushesoutofgoal
selfish
staysongoalline
technicaldribbler


I really think positioning & tacticalawareness could help, I always wanted ratings that are non-physical (Speed, Tackling etc) that would help a player still be good, someone like Juan Roman Riquelme, who isn't fast but has great tactical awareness.....or someone like Maldini who has lost a step physically but still takes up great positioning on defense.

What are your thoughts?

Feel free to comment.

 

[StevePitts]

I really think positioning & tacticalawareness could help

Firstly, I think we should point out (for those that have not analysed the database structure for themselves) that positioning and tacticalawareness are the only two of the listed attributes that are other than true/false, having the usual range from 1 to 99. It might also be worth mentioning that leadership has changed from a (hidden) skill attribute, to another on/off value.

Secondly, my own observation of the player ratings for the demo suggests that positioning does not apply to goalies (logically enough, since they have their own GK positioning attribute) whilst tacticalawareness relates to all players. I agree that these two attributes have great possibilities, but it really depends on how visible the effects are on the pitch. I've not played the demo, so I can't comment, but historically it hasn't always been possible to see the effect of the existing attributes on the way a player performs on the pitch, whether controlled by the user or the CPU.

Finally, I like the idea of the 18 new on/off attributes, since it should enable a certain amount of differentiation between players over and above the vanilla physical/skill attributes. Again though, it will depend on the implementation.

 

[Dipanjan]

have the rating of players changed?
For example Evra had 78/79 in FIFA 07 and Vidic had 79.
Have theie ratings increased?

 

[Royce]

have the rating of players changed?
For example Evra had 78/79 in FIFA 07 and Vidic had 79.
Have theie ratings increased?

Yes, I know for sure Vidic was a 85 and I believe Evra was at least low 80's.

A few other ManU players (Anderson & Nani) both got significant OVR Rating Increases over their 07 stats.

 

[Royce]

Firstly, I think we should point out (for those that have not analysed the database structure for themselves) that positioning and tacticalawareness are the only two of the listed attributes that are other than true/false, having the usual range from 1 to 99. It might also be worth mentioning that leadership has changed from a (hidden) skill attribute, to another on/off value.

Yes, excellent point! I totally meant to mention that in my original post. Thanks for the clarification. I do wish some of the True/False attributes were put on a 1-99 scale, so there could be more wiggle room other than just Yes/No. A GK with a Punch=60 would perform a punch far less than a GK with Punch=90, instead of just a firm Yes/No.

Secondly, my own observation of the player ratings for the demo suggests that positioning does not apply to goalies (logically enough, since they have their own GK positioning attribute) whilst tacticalawareness relates to all players. I agree that these two attributes have great possibilities, but it really depends on how visible the effects are on the pitch. I've not played the demo, so I can't comment, but historically it hasn't always been possible to see the effect of the existing attributes on the way a player performs on the pitch, whether controlled by the user or the CPU.

Yeah, I haven't played the demo either (I don't use the keyboard to play ANY games, utterly terrible IMO, I will wait for the PS2 version myself).

Once I do get my paws on a playable version I will attempt to test some of the effects of both the existing & new 1-99 ratings, I really truly hope they actually have an effect on the players on field performances.

Finally, I like the idea of the 18 new on/off attributes, since it should enable a certain amount of differentiation between players over and above the vanilla physical/skill attributes. Again though, it will depend on the implementation.

Absolutely, anything that adds more spice/life to individual players is a positive thing in my book. I want to feel the difference between a attacking RB like Daniel Alves versus a defensive minded RB like G.Neville. Hopefully these new attributes will help achieve that goal.

 

[Keegan]

Usually once a player gets transferred to Manchester United their rating rises (as mentioned above) similar to the way player ratings tend to fall when they get transferred to Bolton (Meite moved from 83-->79). Typical EA. player ratings in the full game will be interesting to see.

 

[Royce]

Usually once a player gets transferred to Manchester United their rating rises (as mentioned above) similar to the way player ratings tend to fall when they get transferred to Bolton (Meite moved from 83-->79). Typical EA. player ratings in the full game will be interesting to see.

Funny how that happens huh.

I can't wait to start ripping EA a new one over the messed up ratings that are sure to come.

 

[Lior]

Funny how that happens huh.

I can't wait to start ripping EA a new one over the messed up ratings that are sure to come.

Instead of ripping them a new one, why didn't you participate in their research program and assist?

 

[Royce]

Instead of ripping them a new one, why didn't you participate in their research program and assist?

For sure, I'm interested in helping any way possible. Let me know how I can assist.

 

[Keegan]

I think the key word in Liors' post just now is "didn't"... I really doubt that exercise is still on so close to the release of game... It'll be interesting to see if they improve Anelka's ratings and include him in the French squad

 

[Royce]

What type of research project was he referencing then???

I'm upset if I missed the chance to provide actual rating info directly to EA, that would have been awsome, instead of spending hour after hour in Creation Master re-rating everyone myself.

 

[StevePitts]

Usually once a player gets transferred to Manchester United their rating rises (as mentioned above) similar to the way player ratings tend to fall when they get transferred to Bolton (Meite moved from 83-->79)

Now you may feel free to bite my head off for this comment - I don't follow real world football to any degree - but isn't that an inevitable function of the player being on a better team?? That is, because the players around them are of a generally higher standard then their own standard rises, or at least appears to rise.

What type of research project was he referencing then???

A couple of months ago (or so) EA requested volunteers to help them improve the database. I don't remember whether or not that big a deal was made of it here, but it was certainly mentioned on Sweetpatch and the official EA UK forums.

 

[Royce]

Now you may feel free to bite my head off for this comment - I don't follow real world football to any degree - but isn't that an inevitable function of the player being on a better team?? That is, because the players around them are of a generally higher standard then their own standard rises, or at least appears to rise.

I don't want to start any type of argument here, but this is the main issue with EA when it comes to fundamental ratings.

Just because a player moves to ManU or Chelski doesn't mean they can suddenly run faster or kick the ball with more accuracy & velocity.


Physical attributes (pace, touch, passing/shooting skills etc) do not change when you change clubs, they change through training & development & attrition/aging.

I do agree that certain things do change for a player based on what club he is on, but those IMO fall into the realm of non-physical skills....stuff like mentality, composure, morale, teamwork etc, maybe even tactical awareness, positioning improves (through better coaching/better teammates).

You simply do not run faster because you are on the same club as CR7, you will never win that argument.


This is very thought provoking stuff for a geek like me.

 

[Jore2]

I don't want to start any type of argument here, but this is the main issue with EA when it comes to fundamental ratings.

Well it's not only EA's issue is it? I mean I have been playing PES a lot and it's same in there. Actually only game which have been QUITE good is FM when it comes to "unbiased" ratings. And this year PES have been mentioned to have even bigger gaps between top&normal players. So ie. Ronaldinho prolly will be lightning fast compared to some1 like David Suazo(even more in last version since Suazo was playing in Cagliari), while in reality, well if you know your football, you know the reality.

I'm still remembering PES 5(or maybe even 6) where I had some1 like Taye Taiwo with shooting power 60 or so...

 

[Royce]

Yep, valid point made above.

I still laugh out loud everything I think about EA giving Juan Roman Riquelme, aka the Lazy Magician, a speed rating of 87.

 

[StevePitts]

I don't want to start any type of argument here

That's okay then, we'll simply settle for a spirited debate instead

Just because a player moves to ManU or Chelski doesn't mean they can suddenly run faster or kick the ball with more accuracy & velocity

As far as physical attributes are concerned I agree, in fact the opposite may turn out to be true - that kid that looked really fast up against the donkey defenders in League Two suddenly gets found out in a higher league - but all of this is subjective and there are no objective statistics that we can use to make such judgements, which ultimately is the crux of the matter.

 

[Royce]

That's okay then, we'll simply settle for a spirited debate instead

I enjoy "spirited" debates, I wish I could say the same for Mrs Royce.

As far as physical attributes are concerned I agree, in fact the opposite may turn out to be true - that kid that looked really fast up against the donkey defenders in League Two suddenly gets found out in a higher league - but all of this is subjective and there are no objective statistics that we can use to make such judgements, which ultimately is the crux of the matter.

Tell the truth, your really talking about Juliano Belletti aren't you? :Carlos*o:

I wish there were a more "subjective" manner of rating players, but I guess that is part of what defines football as a superior sport around the globe, versus a sport like baseball where a lot of the subjectiveness is taken out because of the existence of hard statistics.

It's far more fun to argue over who's Right Back is better, rather than arguing over a 2B who hits .298-20-78 versus a 2B who hit .305-15-70.

 

[bacchus99]

But will these new attributes mean that we will not be able to import teams from 07 into 08 using Creation Master?

 

[Biebrich 02]

I hope we will be able to do that. New attributes could be set to default values (like 50), and the kits would have to be converted and re-imported, but apart from that I hope it will be possible with cm08.