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strengths/weaknesses vs. FIFA

Voltaire

Youth Team
I've been playing FIFA since FIFA '97, and just recently have I purchased my first Konami soccer title: ISS Pro Evolution Soccer.

For one thing, ISS does resemble the "most beautiful game" much more than FIFA, but the controls are absolutely horrendous. Sometimes, you have to hit the pass button 3 or 4 times before your guy actually passes...also, if you're making a lightning run down the screen and if computer is sprinting down the opposite direction, it'll be too late to pass (and at times, the little RADAR is useless because of the superhuman speed that sometimes possesses the ISS players) - and in real football, touching the ball and passing it off is usually just as instant as it is in FIFA - and this is where I give FIFA the big advantage in terms of realness (where you can actually pass the ball at the last sec, and keep one-touching it without having to predict how close computer will be by your 3rd touch).

ISS is a great game, but here are some more weaknesses - player control - whereas FIFA has minimized computer interference in your players, ISS seems to have the devil possessing your team - in most cases where you thru ball, your player will chase it to the ends of the earth even if you know he won't get it - you can even put the controller down and your player will still chase it. Also, in throw-ins, spotkicks, cornerkicks, goalkicks, or whenever the goalie gets the ball, you have absolutely no say in defense: sometimes, it's nice to put some pressure on the goalie so he doesn't just pass it short to waste time.

Also, if you're just making a regular pass on ISS, your player 90% of the time will just sit there and let the ball roll to him even though you see the opponent making a run for it. I think footy coaches call that laziness.

And what's the deal with the tackles? If you're simply putting your foot out to tackle, why does your player 95% always lose his footing and trip over an imaginary crack in the earth? For instance, you can make a go for a ball, or lose a ball, and after that moment, that player will be dazed for like 5 secs just wondering why he couldn't hold the ball. Does that happen in real football? Not likely.

And for God's sake, I've gotten so many redcards from a slide tackle from the FRONT! Why is the ref so generous in rewarding cards? Slide tackling is one of the most used devices in football, why has Konami turned the referee strictness on 100%?

And let's not talk about ISS commentary - even in a drawn out game, the commentator will conclude that "it's a pity there had to be a loser." FIFA easily wins in this department.

So yes, ISS LOOKS much more like the real game, but it does so at the cost of enjoyment. Whereas FIFA is fastfaced, at least the players have control over their players - and I think a video game is more about player control then resembling reality - if you want to see what real football looks like, go watch the real thing.

And then there are some minor flaws in ISS also worth mentioning: in FIFA, after you save a feature, the console will automatically load all of your settings once you start the game - on ISS you have to constantly load and load and load. And you can't even give your players a haircut (I'm kinda pissed that Jancker has hair). And how come at halftime, you can't make any changes? You have to wait during gametime to make subs, formation changes, etc.

But top marks on ISS making the AI a difficult opponent to beat. All in all, I enjoy ISS much better than FIFA, but I'm not going to make idiotic comments like "ISS is what soccer looks like, what game is FIFA playing?" You know, the only difference between those 2 games is player control and tougher AI's. Who cares if you can kill France 17-0 on World Class? What matters is player control, and ISS doesn't have much of that.
 

grashed

Reserve Team
Anyone who is reading this do not take any notice of it jus let this post slide down to the bottom.

I don't think you have played ISS PRO EVOLUTION for more than 30 minutes, becasue everthing you say is complete rubbish.

Its obvious you have not played it for long mate, because you think fifa has more player control. That is so funny.



LOL
 

ZePenguin

Starting XI
...I wonder if you really played iss, because it's not like that, anyway continue playing fifa, we don't care...

And btw i got rarely red cards and these are when i miss my tackle, of course if you can't make a tackle, you'll get a red card :rolleyes: (you know that in real football and you make an aggressive tackle, even from the front, the referee will most likely give you a red card...)...

And for the controls, there's an option called 'manual' control...

...Hey maybe you played UAE vs World All Stars and you didn't understand why the all stars where better and than UAE players ran slower and missed most of their tackles...that's one explaination i see...

Geez i don't understand how people can say things like that...I agree iss has a bunch of weaknesses like commentary, but certainly not the one you say...

PS: There is no such thing as iss pro evolution soccer....there is iss pro evolution and pro evolution soccer...dunno what game you played...
 

terrorcop

Reserve Team
HAHAHAHAHA


.....................


after playing iss pe2 fifa 2k2 doesnt even look like soccer anymore not to say football the ball is made out of helium!!its just so pathethic and uncomparable lol i cant believe this guy
 

Pere Ubu

Youth Team
Hey, I don't think this guy's an idiot. I don't agree, but I think I know where he's coming from. There's a certain physicality and rawness about FIFA (along with the commentary, it's FIFA''s only good point, I'd say). If you're used to the crunch and clatter of FIFA games, the PS1 ISS games have a kind of laid-back testimonial feel, and until you get the hang of the controls (I mean REALLY get the INSTINCTIVE feel for the controls), it can seem a bit unresponsive.

If like us lot, your first priority is beautiful football, realistic gameplay and a tactical element, you can't get any fun out of FIFA and ISS feels fantastic. But if you come from FIFA world and you don't immediately get the slower and more intricate "feel" of ISS Pro Evo, these things really would get you down. It's all very well for us to scoff, cos we KNOW these things aren't relevant once you're used to the game. But they are weaknesses, at least for your first 6 months with ISS.

HAPPILY - everyone's problems are solved with Pro Evolution Soccer on PS2, which has corrected all of Voltaire's gripes and also builds on what we all love already. KCET have cheekily taken those few little things that FIFA used to do better, and made them their own, as well as taking the realism and gameplay into the stratosphere. One touch passing? If you're good enough it works like a dream. It's just that Egypt can't play keep-ball against Holland, no matter what difficulty level you're on.
 

Voltaire

Youth Team
it's a strengths/weaknesses evaluation, not an essay for trashtalkers

The so-called "legend" here is arguing there's no such thing as "ISS Pro Evolution Soccer," but I don't think that was the point I was making, do you?

And as for the commentary, if you do in fact own the first PS, then at the end of a drawn game, Terry Butcher will indeed say "It's a pity there had to be a loser." So, unless you played ISS, I don't see how you can make claims like that.

And no, I've played ISS for 3 days now; the controls are clumsy, the gameplay looks great, but the player control is awful. I don't suck - in fact, I just dispatched England 8-3 on normal mode, and I'm still in the learning process. Don't worry, though, I'll be on the tougher mode in a week or so.

And BTW, "legend," in a game where you can't control where your guy tackles, it should be assumed that tackles from the front are generally less harmful and hits the ball b/4 hitting the player - I know it was a crap rule in France 98, but they did have a point about tackles from behind. I think EA's FIFA nailed the slide tackling pretty well - for example, they have 3 forms of tackles: they have the regular juke for the ball where you're well-balanced and don't lose sight of the player; they have the regular slide tackle where you hardly ever get called for, and then they have the foul tackle where you get called for 50% of the time - but in ISS, you get the regular tackle and then the foul tackle where you almost always get called - but in real footy, if you actually play or watch it, you'd know that not many slide tackles are actually called because most players aren't dumbasses (let alone the refs).

And as for the one guy forming an arguement by claiming "this guy's pathetic," I can also do that, but I don't want the moderator censoring my message. Perhaps next time, you can actually say something that isn't trash.

also, I wasn't saying that ISS was crap and FIFA wasn't - I'm saying they both have strengths and weaknesses - because the ISS Pro Evolution that I have still has a serious amount of flaws in it. Yeah, FIFA does too, so don't whine about it.

And yes to the last guy - I hope my 2000 copy of ISS Pro Evolution gets a sequel because I see really promising things happening with this game that FIFA will probably never learn.
 

theCRO

Senior Squad
Re: strengths/weaknesses vs. FIFA

Originally posted by Voltaire
I've been playing FIFA since FIFA '97, and just recently have I purchased my first Konami soccer title: ISS Pro Evolution Soccer.

For one thing, ISS does resemble the "most beautiful game" much more than FIFA, but the controls are absolutely horrendous. Sometimes, you have to hit the pass button 3 or 4 times before your guy actually passes...also, if you're making a lightning run down the screen and if computer is sprinting down the opposite direction, it'll be too late to pass (and at times, the little RADAR is useless because of the superhuman speed that sometimes possesses the ISS players) - and in real football, touching the ball and passing it off is usually just as instant as it is in FIFA - and this is where I give FIFA the big advantage in terms of realness (where you can actually pass the ball at the last sec, and keep one-touching it without having to predict how close computer will be by your 3rd touch).

ISS is a great game, but here are some more weaknesses - player control - whereas FIFA has minimized computer interference in your players, ISS seems to have the devil possessing your team - in most cases where you thru ball, your player will chase it to the ends of the earth even if you know he won't get it - you can even put the controller down and your player will still chase it. Also, in throw-ins, spotkicks, cornerkicks, goalkicks, or whenever the goalie gets the ball, you have absolutely no say in defense: sometimes, it's nice to put some pressure on the goalie so he doesn't just pass it short to waste time.

Also, if you're just making a regular pass on ISS, your player 90% of the time will just sit there and let the ball roll to him even though you see the opponent making a run for it. I think footy coaches call that laziness.

And what's the deal with the tackles? If you're simply putting your foot out to tackle, why does your player 95% always lose his footing and trip over an imaginary crack in the earth? For instance, you can make a go for a ball, or lose a ball, and after that moment, that player will be dazed for like 5 secs just wondering why he couldn't hold the ball. Does that happen in real football? Not likely.

And for God's sake, I've gotten so many redcards from a slide tackle from the FRONT! Why is the ref so generous in rewarding cards? Slide tackling is one of the most used devices in football, why has Konami turned the referee strictness on 100%?

And let's not talk about ISS commentary - even in a drawn out game, the commentator will conclude that "it's a pity there had to be a loser." FIFA easily wins in this department.

So yes, ISS LOOKS much more like the real game, but it does so at the cost of enjoyment. Whereas FIFA is fastfaced, at least the players have control over their players - and I think a video game is more about player control then resembling reality - if you want to see what real football looks like, go watch the real thing.

And then there are some minor flaws in ISS also worth mentioning: in FIFA, after you save a feature, the console will automatically load all of your settings once you start the game - on ISS you have to constantly load and load and load. And you can't even give your players a haircut (I'm kinda pissed that Jancker has hair). And how come at halftime, you can't make any changes? You have to wait during gametime to make subs, formation changes, etc.

But top marks on ISS making the AI a difficult opponent to beat. All in all, I enjoy ISS much better than FIFA, but I'm not going to make idiotic comments like "ISS is what soccer looks like, what game is FIFA playing?" You know, the only difference between those 2 games is player control and tougher AI's. Who cares if you can kill France 17-0 on World Class? What matters is player control, and ISS doesn't have much of that.

Apart from IS pro evolution Soccer not existing, your evaluation is full of other critical errors. Superhuman speed? Get over it buddy, maybe the guy is closer and you're frustrated that Beckham can't outrun Jarni, who incidently can run 100 meters in 11 seconds. So play it, and see, it's real.

Hit the pass button when in controll of the ball man, don't hit it when the player is sprinting and the ball is 4 feet infront of him, learn some touch, it comes with practice.

Topuch passing is real and intricate, you'll learn how to do it soon enough, gove it some time, and forget the horrendous FIFA physics while playing, this is REAL.

realness (where you can actually pass the ball at the last sec,

You can do this exceptionally well in all ISS titles.

Also, if you're just making a regular pass on ISS, your player 90% of the time will just sit there and let the ball roll to him even though you see the opponent making a run for it. I think footy coaches call that laziness.

move towards the ball man.

And what's the deal with the tackles? If you're simply putting your foot out to tackle, why does your player 95% always lose his footing and trip over an imaginary crack in the earth?

It's the best tackling system in any game, play it a little and you'll see. The tackles need to be times, and dispossesing a player is just as it is in real life. I'll take a wild guess and say that you've never watched 90 minutes of football in your life.

Infact I'll bet that you're a FIFA fan, rather than a football fan. Sad, play it a bit, and if you know what football is, you'll know that this is the real deal, and t he most fun and addictive game ever made.
 

G-R

Youth Team
Voltaire,

Why do you keep calling him 'legend'? He's only got Legend under his name becuase of his high post count.

And you've only been playing for 3 days??? Do you not realise it took many of us months to master our first KCET football game, let alone weeks for people who get the new versions after mastering the previous copy?

I think your impressions are too hasty, and you seem mighty impatient.

And if you're complaining about getting a free kick/red card whatever when you slide tackle from the front, I suggest you play REAL football and try that in a game. I can tell you you won't be in the game for long, even if the ref is a 'softy'.
 

ZePenguin

Starting XI
Re: it's a strengths/weaknesses evaluation, not an essay for trashtalkers

Originally posted by Voltaire
The so-called "legend" here is arguing there's no such thing as "ISS Pro Evolution Soccer," but I don't think that was the point I was making, do you?


That's why it was a post scriptum...maybe you don't know what that is...

Originally posted by Voltaire
- but in real footy, if you actually play or watch it, you'd know that not many slide tackles are actually called because most players aren't dumbasses (let alone the refs).


Maybe it's because they mastered sliding tackles after heavy trainings, and you think after 3 days you can make perfect tackles, yeah it's like that in fifa...but fif ain't realistic

Originally posted by Voltaire
And as for the one guy forming an arguement by claiming "this guy's pathetic," I can also do that, but I don't want the moderator censoring my message. Perhaps next time, you can actually say something that isn't trash.


I have to say that his message was shocking...lol...

Originally posted by Voltaire
And yes to the last guy - I hope my 2000 copy of ISS Pro Evolution gets a sequel because I see really promising things happening with this game that FIFA will probably never learn.

SO WHAT GAME DO YOU PLAYED EXACTLY ???
 

Voltaire

Youth Team
ok

There are too many people to respond to so I'll just make a response, and I'll just assume you know which one belongs to you...

But first off, a general message to most of you - I really feel that you've guys have become so infatuated with this game that you simply refuse to hear about bugs and problems with the game...and who was that? ZePenguin? If even bothered to read my first post, you would know that Pro Evolution was my soccer game of choice but that does not mean this game is infallible...most of you seem to have the menstrual urge to lash out at anyone speak badly about your precious computer game...well, maybe you guys just need to fall in love or something, because your motherly nature protecting this game is embarrassing.

Ok, the Superhuman speed...there are times when a slow player will run faster than he normally does, and there are times when a fast player runs faster than he also normally does...for instance, if you use the through ball, the defender picks up an incredible amount of speed just to intercept...even in certain pass situations where Oliver Bierhoff (not exactly a track star) will run 100mph intercepting a ball, when he'll never ever run that fast going for pass from a teammate - that's what I'm calling superhuman speed, but somehow you seems to think that Pro Evolution is free from bugs...

And yes, there are times when your player can move in closer to receive a pass, but there are SO MANY times when your player is simply stuck in a hole, and won't step even a centimeter to get the ball...

Also with tackles - I've played soccer for 9 years, and have been playing it casually for the rest of my life - and yes, I watch Bundesliga - so don't tell me how tackles work:

For one thing, if I lose the ball to someone, I'm not gonna trip over an imaginary hole in the ground, and let that guy get away without a fight looking stupid for 5 seconds just holding my nuts...but according to you guys, this is REAL "football." Yeah, how real is it that once you take the ball away, the depossessed player will just sit there looking all happy (perfectly content to let you run away with the ball without going for it a 2nd try).

And for slide tackles - that isn't exactly an art. Do you know how big that ball is compared to your foot? When you're sliding for the ball, all you have to do slide on your leg, stick your foot out, and the ball will come right to you - shoot, I was doing slide tackles since I was a 5 year old - how hard is that?

And I don't agree that this is real football - it's not - because as I've just pointed out, there is no mystical force in real life that trips a player after he's attempted to take the ball - that just doesn't happen in real life. But hey, as I've also said, this looks much more realistic than FIFA, but I'm not going to go out of my way to say that Konami is God, and that this game is a perfect rendition of the "most beautiful game."
 

grashed

Reserve Team
For goodness sake

ISSPE2 DOES NOT HAVE BUGS

Its just your lack of playing time. You have only had the game for bloody 3 days, and it takes most people at least 3 MONTHS to master the controls and the games completely.

I have met allot of fifa fans that are just like you when the first bought the game, but months later you come to realise that this is the closest to real life footy you are gonna get.

One thing that you don't understand is that this game comes with a learning curve and it has allot of depth, meaning that only time will reveal the advantages of this game. I bet you have not even won on EASY mode.

When I first bought ISSPE I honestly thought it wasn't that good at all but almost ONE YEAR later I have completly mastered the game and I have no problems regarding player control or making a bad tackle without GETTING THE BALL FIRST.

Your account of ISSPE is useless, you have only had the game for three days, you probably come from a fifa background and you are confused because you never thought a football game could come with a learning curve.

PLAY ISS FOR MORE THAN A MONTH AND SEE IF YOU ARE SAYING THE SAME THING.
 

grashed

Reserve Team
Ok, the Superhuman speed...there are times when a slow player will run faster than he normally does, and there are times when a fast player runs faster than he also normally does...for instance, if you use the through ball, the defender picks up an incredible amount of speed just to intercept...even in certain pass situations where Oliver Bierhoff (not exactly a track star) will run 100mph intercepting a ball, when he'll never ever run that fast going for pass from a teammate - that's what I'm calling superhuman speed, but somehow you seems to think that Pro Evolution is free from bugs...

This shows some lack of knowledge of the game itself.

If you go into the management menu you will see some "arrows", these arrows determine if a player is having a good day and his attributes will increase, including his speed attribute, or if he is having a bad day were his attribues decrease. There is one thing wrong with this, you cannot see the CPU arrows, so somethimes when you see a cpu player pick up some speed its down to his form or if he is in the "zone". Surely you understand that?

The slide tackle is the best you are gonna get in any game. Its simple if you get the ball first then you don't get booked, if you don't then good luck with the referee. As for people falling over in the game sometimes a player might stick out a leg, or push someone from behind and so on.

Again, you account is useless, because this game is not for people to give first impressions or a review after 3 days. The depth and the learning curve does not make this possible no matter who you are.

I advise you to stop posting you 3rd day impressions, and come back after a month or so.
 

ZePenguin

Starting XI
Re: ok

Originally posted by Voltaire
But first off, a general message to most of you - I really feel that you've guys have become so infatuated with this game that you simply refuse to hear about bugs and problems with the game...and who was that? ZePenguin? If even bothered to read my first post, you would know that Pro Evolution was my soccer game of choice but that does not mean this game is infallible...most of you seem to have the menstrual urge to lash out at anyone speak badly about your precious computer game...well, maybe you guys just need to fall in love or something, because your motherly nature protecting this game is embarrassing.

I don' thave anything against someone who tells the problems of a game, but most of the problems that you describe are n00bies problems..."This game has bugs because i can't make a pass or i can't make a proper tackle, it's not fait buhuuhuuuhhu". Maybe you think you can evaluate a game after having played it 3 days? Apparently you know everything and we don't...you are always right and we are always wrong...of course...

Therefore, mister "iknoweverythingandyouareallignorants", i won't answer to noobies whinings anymore.
 

SatanJones

Youth Team
Ok guys, I can see your point, but Voltaire has 1 or 2 points. These, in my opinion, are the only problems with ISSPE2 (whcih I play right now).

1st
Through Passes- Your players sometimes get LOCKED into a line they run, and they do not give you enough control. The worst is when you run towards the goal and there is a beautiful through pass, but just outside the players lane of running, and instead of turning a bit and tapping into the goal, he keeps on running the wrongway. Lets get real, in real soccer they don't run in a straight line. I do see that through passes would be too powerful otherwise, but I never believed in the "make AI cheap to make it harder" method...

2nd
Hitting pass button on Defense (conservative tackle/steal) is too good. In real footie a player can't simply run into another player and steal the ball 100% of the time. It is too easy, and I think that the player with the ball ould keep the ball about 30% of the itme or so. That needs to be made less powerful.

Other than that, ISSPE2 is God's Gift to the Football Fan.
 
F

flyer884

Guest
Voltaire, listen.

The first couple of weeks that I played ISS, i though the game was overated too. But now, almost one year later, after hundreds of games, and still playing the game daily, i realized how amazing this game is. Except for the goalie A.I, the game is flawless. You shouldnt critisize the game after three days.

I find it amazing that i have been playing this game every day for almost a year, and i still love it, im still not bored. ISS is amazing.
 

Voltaire

Youth Team
Ok, once again, I'm not using names, so just look for my responses to you...

1. I'm not a noobie if your definition of a "noobie" is I suck, because I don't suck; as I've said, I had this game for 4 days now, and I'm smacking computer on NORMAL mode (not easy) - here are my memorable games on NORMAL so far:

8 - 3 victory with Germany over England
5 - 1 victory over Italy this morning with Germany
and then I went ahead and won the Asian cup with Japan - the final was tremendous: the first half Australia was winning 4-0, and I almost gave up, but kept in the game and came back and won 5-4 thanks to 2 headers from my Brazilian import, and 2 wicked long shots from some jap on my team: then, the Golden Goal at the end was the final icing on the cake, and I've added the Asian trophy alongside my European one...

2. A first impression IS a first impression...if 3 days isn't enough for a first impression, I question just what a first impression is...

3. Whoever that baby was whining obviously didn't read my post...I clearly stated that I've been playing FIFA since FIFA 97, and that Pro Evolution was my first title...oh, and I ALREADY TOLD YOU 1 MILLION TIMES this is my favourite game and that of all soccer titles available, it's the closest thing to soccer...but I'm not being stupid (*cough cough like you*) and saying that this game is what soccer is all about because as I've noted, there are a million problems with the game that can still be fixed, and if you don't see that, you probably haven't ever watched or played a real soccer game in your life.

4. Thanks for the intelligent comment (there's only one of you so you know who you are), but there were a few more quips about the game that I had, but you nailed some of them quite well.
 

ZePenguin

Starting XI
Originally posted by Voltaire
1. I'm not a noobie if your definition of a "noobie" is I suck, because I don't suck

As for definition of NEWbie, is someone is NEW to a game...

And good for you, i don't care.
 

bulldrig

Youth Team
havent read the whole thread....

eh what game have u played?

Iss pro evolution 1/2 for ps1 ? (if u r talking about iss pro evolution for ps1 then we r talking bout a 2-3 years old game or something ;) )

or the new pes for ps2?


I agree pes still have problems, and is far from perfect but to tell u the truth i have never enjoyed a videogame as when playing Pes :)


like i said before ave not read the whole thread.
But i saw u mentioned about the fact that u r being annoyed when passing a teamate, he just stands there and waits to recive the ball while the enemy steals the ball.

Onthis point (if u r playing PES on ps2) I couldnt disagree more, cuse i think its perfectly done.
Cuse as fast as u made a pass u can actually run towards the ball, and get to controll the reciver.
And if your back is clean u can always wait for the ball
Its perfect!!

note that double click on the pass buttom will make a instant pass wich will means that u cant move wich is verey good cuse it makes fast play in one touch fashion tricky but still verey possible.

try to double click on the x buttom just when u r bout to recive the ball ;)
 

ZePenguin

Starting XI
Well it's not pro evolution soccer, because he said he was playing at normal level, since there is no normal level in pes...

BTW Voltaire where is that sentence in your sig quoted from? i already saw this one somewhere a while ago ?
 


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