Tactics 101

Discussion in 'Older Football Manager Titles Forum' started by Tom, Feb 12, 2006.

  1. Tom

    Tom That Nice Guy

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    Basically im having a few problems with tactics on FM06 (not the first time), and i thought there are probably many people who dont REALLY know where to start with tactic-creation on FM, indeed, a lot of people i know who are new to the game simply download tactics and go from there.

    However, i thought it would be interesting to ask the SUCCESFULL managers on this forum how you guys start creating tactics, e.g. whether it is by seeing what kind of players you have, or by always choosing the SAME formation.

    Basically i intend to then put it into one thread, like a "Dream Team's Guide to Tactic Creation" (H)

    OH, and i wont be adding my personal opinions to this, seeing as im not good on FM, and by that, i dont want people posting advice in this thread if you are a **** manager :D, by all means ask questions, but dont give advice.
     
  2. Fernandez

    Fernandez Team Captain

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    The sortitoutsi forums has a detailed guide to creating tactics, and a good one too. (Y)

    To be honest, I'm not a tactic creator but a tactic innovator.
     
  3. Socrates

    Socrates Starting XI

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    I find its best to see what kind of players you have and go from there. So for instance SG United i chose to play with 2 CBs, 2 wbs, a dm, a amc, 2 attacing wingers, and 2 forwards. After this i choose the team settings, i wanted to use the wingbacks and wingers a lot so i played it pretty wide, i also play quick because most of the players are pretty fast. After that i balance everything out, i dont make it too attacking nor too defencive, i push the defence line up just a bit but not too much. Time wasting goes down a bit. After the team instructions are done than the personal instructions need to be figured out. For these just use the players strenth, if he has a good long shot put his long shots to often. Things like that. Thats basically what i do and it works pretty well for me.
     
  4. Filipower

    Filipower Bunburyist

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    completely agree with socrates, you have to know the players you have before you create or, i think, even download a tactic, coz for instance if you choose a tactic with two strikers and then have only two in your squad, if one gets injured your doomed...it's also good to have a backup tactic:rolleyes:
     
  5. Tom

    Tom That Nice Guy

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    actually i just read the thread at Susie, wow, amazing stuff.
     
  6. Johnny_Big

    Johnny_Big Starting XI

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    Yeah, know the players before you make the tactic...

    But hey, it is just me, or playing with 2 strikers just doesn't do for me...? Well, I play in a 4-3-3, that can go into 4-5-1 in harder games or with 10 players (or less) in the field. However, this tactic has 2 problems...the ball hardly gets to the striker even if you have class midfield and wingers. Second problem, this tactic gives you lots of possession, control of game, less fouls, lots of tackles but...lack of shooting. Yeah, most of my games, I get between 10/15 shots...is that ok? It think it is too low, I remember with 4-4-2 I used to do 20/25 shots...but most of them wouldn't go in, and the defense played really bad...

    I think with 4-3-3 (4-5-1) I found the equilibrium I needed. This tactic does it for me! Just drew with Sporting 1-1 at Guiseppe Meazza with this (thought I scored from a penalty... :jap: ). And most of my games end up with the same score...2-0, 2-0, ocasional 3-0, 2-0...I hardly score more than 3, but I hardly suffer goals, especially in league matches (exception of CL and classics, where I have to give it all).
     
  7. Socrates

    Socrates Starting XI

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    2 strikers works great for me. I love playing 4-3-3 in FM i think thats when the best football is played, its very nice to watch. If the ball is not getting to your forwards, check out your midfield. They are probobly not feeding him the ball. What are your instrucitons for your mids amd wingers?? I would suggest everyone to watch one of your games on full match mode and see how everyone plays, that way its easy to tell where you need to fix things and where its working nicely. BTW i would also advice people to try out wingbacks....they seem to play great in FM.
     
  8. Tom

    Tom That Nice Guy

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    true, but often in a 451 or 433 the striker gets very little action, the idea of "holding up the ball" was derived from the position of the lone striker, so i guess one who is big, strong, good concentration and decent work rate will do just fine, if not get you a mass of goals.
     
  9. Johnny_Big

    Johnny_Big Starting XI

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    Weird. My Striker is Liedson (Deivid in the bench). Liedson has 1,75 meters...but as he is a great player, when the ball comes to him, he hardly fails. And he has everything...heading, jumping, work rate, concentration, penalty taking (I get a lot!)...Deivid is pretty much alike Liedson, but with more 5 cm I think...I need to get a high player indeed, maybe Zigic...

    Socrates: I play with a DMC (Custodio) that in the attacks turns into MC (pretty much like Makelele...recovers and does the first pass). The other two are MC. One of the MC only does attack (Joao Moutinho), while the other has partly attack and defense (like Maniche did it in FC Porto), and does pretty well. At least the defensive part (has mixed forwards runs...). My left winger is Douala, he has a pretty much decent left foot, so I use him to cross a lot. My right winger is Gasbarroni, that can go into MAC/MAD, for him to use his fantastic kick. However, I think I will change their positions, maybe that will improve.

    This method really shines in recovering balls and in defensive work...in the attack it does great, but not as good as defensive work...

    As you told, wingbacks are awesome in this game. I have to agree, my left-back, brazilian Chiquinho does fantastic stuff, having 9-9-9-9-9 every time...and some 10 ocasionally. Also, my DMC usually has great rates. The rest is pretty much 7, 7, 7 and some 8...

    Indeed, I agree 4-3-3 when well played is a spectacle to watch. However, if in this tactic, if we play wide, as I did once, the team looks bad, and full of openings in the wings. I play with normal width + 3 to the right...it does well. The ball goes often to the left-backs, wingers and midfields, just as I want...but not to the striker.

    But hey, I will try your advice tomorrow, I have a big game against Chelsea at Stanford, I will watch the Full Match. And tomorrow I may add some info here...
     
  10. Filipower

    Filipower Bunburyist

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    i now play with one striker, and it's great, but two strikers is awsome too, you just have to put the right two guys
     
  11. Tom

    Tom That Nice Guy

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    great post Johnny, however, im not sure FM takes into account Height yet, i think it is there just for "appeal" and for the player to be able to think about how tall someone would be, just out of interest.

    However, Ruud would know more about that.
     
  12. Socrates

    Socrates Starting XI

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    For me i put the DMC to very defensive and he hardly attacks, he just stops the play and passes to the MC/AMC in front of him. If i was using a 4-3-3- the 2 MC/AMC in front of DM i would put their mentality to 1 tick below attacking so its normal and their closing down on often. Forward runs often as well. I think this works will because with the ball both will attack and him your forward and when they lose it they will run back and try to win the ball because of your high closing down. I notice that while playing with 3 forward it works best for me if i put the winger/forward in a forward spot with a back arrow to AML/AMR. I have them on the first attacking mentality, often run with ball, try trough balls on often, and mixed crossing, this way they give most of the chanes to the main forward but they will also score too. I put thier closing down on often too so they come back and get the ball as well. For the FC he is really attacking and mixed closing down, hold up the ball. For the team instructions i acutally play wide and fast paced. Thats what worked for me but i was using a different type of tactic, it was a 3-4-3 and it worked with them so a 4-3-3 should do the same aswell.
     
  13. rpvankasteren

    rpvankasteren Fan Favourite

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    Sure, call me into it. I scratched the height/weight from the update originally because YOU said it wasn't used. (H)

    Tbh, I do think you are right. I never noticed a tall player and a short player with the same heading, jumping, movement, etc show a difference in quality. I remember a statement saying the height would be considered BEFORE the final stat, shown in the tables, was calculated, but that could have been said by BGS (on CM5 or 6) just as easily as SI. My memory does fail me there.


    The best tip I think I could give about the tactics, is to realise defense is the main priority. Keep your DCs and full backs from going too far out of position, or any team will beat you on the counter.
     
  14. Filipower

    Filipower Bunburyist

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    no, what counts is the heading and jumping, and positioning..when the ball comes and two players are going for it, the game processes all of those stats between those two players - for instance, if X has 17 at heading, and Y only 14, the game draws a number from 1 to 17 for X and from 1 to 14 for Y, the one who gets the highest wins the challenge, so X has more possibilities, obviously. :jambo:

    so the height has nothin to do with it, but only for now, maybe in next versions it will:brow:
     
  15. Tom

    Tom That Nice Guy

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    i think it will do, shouldnt be too hard to introduce.

    Ruud, whats the best way of keeping your defenders in position then?
     
  16. Filipower

    Filipower Bunburyist

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    asking them nicely:(
     
  17. rpvankasteren

    rpvankasteren Fan Favourite

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    Depends on the defenders. Keeping creativity very low and closing down low. Their stats will really set the limit as to how much freedom they should get: Positioning, anticipation, creativity, pace, acceleration, concentration... And of course the opposition's ability. I never go over 5 ticks on closing down, though, and no creativity at all. Let the midfielders peform the tricks to open the opposition defense.

    I do have man marking on for the DCs, with a DMC to close gaps in the zone. Leaving the DCs on zonal will catch them out maybe 7 out of 10 times when set this static.
     
  18. Tom

    Tom That Nice Guy

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    ok ive got:

    Riise/Warnock, Carra, Hyppia and Finnan.

    Oh, and i play Sissoko in a MC role with defensive mentality.
     
  19. Johnny_Big

    Johnny_Big Starting XI

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    Tom: Liverpool I guess. I didn't play with them already, but the instructions can go like this:

    Riise is your choice at the left, IMO. Good defender, but he shines in the attack. Be sure to put him with some forwards runs and crossing. Oh, and don't forget his awesome kick, so put long shots often. Also let him get in the corners, to do them, or in the outside of the area, to shoot the rebound ball. But don't forget, he is a defender, put his mentality normal (if you attack a lot of course). He shouldn't have too much creative freedom, for him to make mistakes. Low pressure like [rpvankasteren] said. And in the corners, counters, etc, be sure to have a player compensating there, Sissoko surely will do.

    Hyppia and Carra...for all the DC I always put them super defensive, no creative freedom, low pressure...and everything on rarely...their functions is to defend, and not to do "virgulas". Hyppia and Carra also possess a great threat to other defenders in set pieces, so put them there! Maybe Carra could bother the GK, as Hyppia would go to attack the 1st or 2nd post...But don't forget, put in the defence players that are fast, with no aerial presence, and with some tackling at least for the rebound or to stop the counter(ex: wingers or right-back Finnan will do). I usually put the Zonal marking, I only put MM when I am beeing totally owned...so...but don't forget, Zonal works better with players that are fast, I believe...

    As for Finnan, I don't really know, but I am sure that he is "only" a good player. Compensate the left flank with Finnan a little more defensive than Riise, and without going to the attack as often as Riise. Put his crosses to 3/4 of the field, have him everything on mixed, except through balls and long shots...and put him back at corners and set-pieces.

    Sissoko...well he is a good choice, but you could try getting Lorik Cana. Sissoko, without technical atributes, shines on physical and mental, physical especially. He should use his brute force...hard tackling, super defensive, low creative freedom, no forward runs. Long shots, i don't know his atrribute, for through balls mixed, and crossing 0. MM or Zonal, I don't really know, but I put mine on MM. Pressure is mixed. His job is to recover the balls, and not to mess around.

    Well, this is only my opinions, I don't have really trained them...
     
  20. Socrates

    Socrates Starting XI

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    Thats pretty much what i do, although my fullbacks/wingbacks have a little higher closing down but still its on rarely, works for me. For fullbacks i actually put their mentality to the last defensive spot but put thier forward runs to often so when my team has the ball they are up there but as soon as i lose it they runback and defend.

    For the DMC i put his mentality to defensive, low creative freedom, everything is rarely except for long shots which is mixed and through balls are often. Zonel marking and closing down on often.
     
      

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