The Armenian-Pontian-Assyrian Genocide of WWI

Pontiakos

Starting XI
Well a private message sent to me by cus has resulted in me opening this thread regarding the first and genocide of the past century.


The Armenian-Pontian-Assyrian Genocide of WWI


Before we get started I will give a brief run down of historical events. This is going to be REALLY WATERED down.



This thread is meant to inform people about the events of the genocide.



If you have questions or comments please add to the discussion.



If you don't, out of respect for the dead please refrain from unneccesary comments, hideous jokes or otherwise meaningless comments.

Here goes....... :jambo:
 

cus

Banned
thanks for the thread pontiakos..

I'll break the topic into pieces hence it would be too long in one post..

I see most of people think that "Why do Turks never accept genocide?? Accept it and move along.."

there's small misunderstanding in this.. The terrible results of forcing armenians to migration should never be rejected..

but is this really genocide? what do you think genocide is?


According to Code of UN for Prevention and Punishment of Genocide Crimes, which was accepted to Turkey in 23.3.1950, the term genocide is:

1- Massacre against ethnic or religious community should be planned and organised by government and accepted as a policy of the nation..
2- Massacre execution should be nationwide, not limited for a specific area..
3- Massacre should be repeated several times, not executed one time..

People never think that; "Fascist Nationalism" is the required for the use of term "Genocide" and it never developed in Ottoman Empire..

So for the use of term "genocide", there should be a plan appliced for complete execution of an ethnic group..

so the problem here is, the term genocide is suitable for this situation or not..

of course, noone should negate the carnage between armenians and turkish-kurdish audience..

let's get move onto it...
 

cus

Banned
let's get into some history..

Armenians live here in Anatolia for about 2400 years.. (BC IV) (source: Turkish Encyclopedia)

they shared the last 1000 years (till 1900's) of this history peacefully with muslim turkish audience..

but during the French Revolution, Industrial Revolution and Enlightenment; Armenians have been effected from the nationalism trend just like Bulgarians, Greeks and Albanians... which sounds reasonable in their way of thinking..


Armenians (and not only Armenians) think that "-hmm we were here in anatolia before the turks did, so we should have a portion here" ....

noone can blame them for this thought either..

but it is illogical to ignore the presence of Turkish audience in Anatolia, which has 1000 years of history on its own.. Unfortunately, some Greek fanatics are still dreaming of turning 1000 years back and reviving Byzantinum and Pontus governments.. They don't hesitate to create false "genocide" claims against minorities.. this is nothing but ignoring the 1000 years of history, and the presence of Turkish Republic..


I'll get into some close history now..
 

cus

Banned
First of all; I'll get you three systematically made mistakes when evaluating history..

1- People sometimes deflect history in their way of thinking and ideology..
2- People often evaluate history without considering the world conjuncture and historical duration..
3- People mostly evaluate history with today's concepts and terms..


please bear these in mind before evaluating history..


anyway I'm so tired out now, it was a hard day.. I'll get into some close history by editing this post later..


good day
 

Pontiakos

Starting XI
cus said:
thanks for the thread pontiakos..

I'll break the topic into pieces hence it would be too long in one post..

I see most of people think that "Why do Turks never accept genocide?? Accept it and move along.."

there's small misunderstanding in this.. The terrible results of forcing armenians to migration should never be rejected..


1)No you're right is shouldn't be................but the Turkish government denies it to this day.....and it wasn't just Armenians it was Greeks, and Assyrians as well.

2)Migrations occured after the genocide was completed, and are not the only thing that occured. Here is an example of what did occur...of course you will refute this because all Greek and Armenian sources are historically innaccurate.

a)The Neo-turkish army(led by Topal Osman) would enter a city....for example Kerasous (Kerasounta) and round up all women and children in the city's greek orthodox church......and burn them alive.

b)All males of army age would be enlisted in the Turkish army and forced into labor camps......much like the NAZI labor camps you refuted in an other thread. If they tried to escape they were killed and if they did escape the army found their families and killed them as well.




cus said:
but is this really genocide? what do you think genocide is?

hmmm, I don't know let's see how the U.N defines it.......

http://www.hrweb.org/legal/genocide.html

Convention on the
Prevention and Punishment
of the Crime of Genocide



Adopted by Resolution 260 (III) A of the United Nations General Assembly on 9 December 1948.

Article 1
The Contracting Parties confirm that genocide, whether committed in time of peace or in time of war, is a crime under international law which they undertake to prevent and to punish.

Article 2
In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

* (a) Killing members of the group;
* (b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
* (c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
* (d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
* (e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.





cus said:
According to Code of UN for Prevention and Punishment of Genocide Crimes, which was accepted to Turkey in 23.3.1950, the term genocide is:


you must mean the link?


cus said:
1- Massacre against ethnic or religious community should be planned and organised by government and accepted as a policy of the nation..
2- Massacre execution should be nationwide, not limited for a specific area..
3- Massacre should be repeated several times, not executed one time..

These look kind of different......
..........you didn't come up with them did you? ......What's funny is that even if you did, you still encrimenated (made guilty) the actions of the Kemalist Neo-Turks.......but let's take them one at a time....

1-hmmmmm....when the Neo Turks came to power in their declaration of the revolution they clearly state that there is no room in Turkey for non-muslims.....I wonder what they meant by that? .....maybe that they should all go home....

2-I'm sorry but that is just straight up b*llsh*t...unless these are the Turkish defenitions of genocide I don't see how this is lawful.....so what you're saying is that if a particular ethnicity happens to live in 2 places and they are all killed and wiped off the face of the earth in one of the two, its not a genocide because it only happened in one place and there are still some left? ....if this wasn't as serious a topic I would laugh in your face.....

3-HEEEELLLOOOOOOO 1908-1922 killings were spread out throughout those years.......and what you're saying is once again a joke. Especially since an entire village could, and was wiped out in a night.

cus said:
People never think that; "Fascist Nationalism" is the required for the use of term "Genocide" and it never developed in Ottoman Empire..

So for the use of term "genocide", there should be a plan appliced for complete execution of an ethnic group..

so the problem here is, the term genocide is suitable for this situation or not..

of course, noone should negate the carnage between armenians and turkish-kurdish audience..

let's get move onto it...

What the hell does the Ottoman empire have to do with this, the genocides began after the Neo-Turks took over........oh and by the way during the rule of the Ottoman empire the inhabitants of the entire island of Chios, Greece were wipped out.




More to follow....
 

Pontiakos

Starting XI
cus said:
let's get into some history..

Armenians live here in Anatolia for about 2400 years.. (BC IV) (source: Turkish Encyclopedia)

they shared the last 1000 years (till 1900's) of this history peacefully with muslim turkish audience..

but during the French Revolution, Industrial Revolution and Enlightenment; Armenians have been effected from the nationalism trend just like Bulgarians, Greeks and Albanians... which sounds reasonable in their way of thinking..


Armenians (and not only Armenians) think that "-hmm we were here in anatolia before the turks did, so we should have a portion here" ....

noone can blame them for this thought either..

but it is illogical to ignore the presence of Turkish audience in Anatolia, which has 1000 years of history on its own.. Unfortunately, some Greek fanatics are still dreaming of turning 1000 years back and reviving Byzantinum and Pontus governments.. They don't hesitate to create false "genocide" claims against minorities.. this is nothing but ignoring the 1000 years of history, and the presence of Turkish Republic..


I'll get into some close history now..


What the hell are babbling about again?

No one wants to revive a God Damn thing and if they do they are alone in their ambitions........this is the problem with modern Turkey, it suppresses its people because it fears that is will be split into ancient kingdoms.......WAKE UP FROM THE KEMALIST DREAM!!!! YOU'RE STILL LIVING IN 1922!!!!

The only thing Armenians and Greeks want is ..............RECOGNITION

They want the world to cry for they dead as I cry for my dead ancestors who fell at the hands of Topal Osman and ATATURK!




Congratulations you are in Anatolia for 1000 years!! This doesn't give you the right to kill every one that has been there for 4000 years.
 

Pontiakos

Starting XI
cus said:
First of all; I'll get you three systematically made mistakes when evaluating history..

1- People sometimes deflect history in their way of thinking and ideology..
2- People often evaluate history without considering the world conjuncture and historical duration..
3- People mostly evaluate history with today's concepts and terms..


please bear these in mind before evaluating history..


anyway I'm so tired out now, it was a hard day.. I'll get into some close history by editing this post later..


good day

1-you must mean propaganda........yeah.......there are some retard Greeks that took the events and made them worse then they appear just like the Turks that took the events and made them .......disappear!

THE TRUTH IS ALWAYS IN THE MIDDLE......

2-conjecture is the word and it means....a hypothesis that has been formed by speculating (usually with little hard evidence)..... :rolleyes: :nape: ...yeah you're right there is no evidence....even the turkish sources admit that "defectors" were killed because they committed treason....what they don't say it how many. .......history is written by the winners.....the only problem with this case is that the losers are still alive in their children and grandchildren through horrific stories..........but the states involved in the eastern front of WWI also kept good records. I am still waiting for some of them to be declassified.......those that have been declassified don't look good for the Neo Turks.

3- :funny: :funny: ok so its not genocide because the term was coined post WWII.........



what do you want to call it? .......a spanking? give me a break.
 

Shindig

Fan Favourite
Shouldn't we all be orgasming at the fact the US have pulled out of the Geneva convention? Guantanamo's one step away from being a concentration camp.
 

cus

Banned
Pontiakos I'll take care of you later.. you remind me of your NATO AD-70 and DRC representer in 1970, Michael Duntas..


I said Armenians were influenced by nationalism trend and wanted to form their own Country just like greek and bulgarians did.. it's reasonable in their way of thinking who can blame them..

so they caused 24 insurgencies in various places of empire in the last 4 months of 1895 (between september and december)..

during these outbreaks they killed 25.000 turkish-kurdish audience and of course they did lost many lives (Turkish sources claim 25k-30k, armenian sources say 300k) during suppression of these insurgencies..

so with the pressure from european countries, ottoman empire decided to take some preventive actions against these outbreaks occured most in 6 cities, which includes:


- Every procouncil to have one armenian assistant..
- Appointing Polices in that cities with the ethnic rate..

unfortunately, thanks to Adana Insurgency in 1909, these rules were not applied...

I'd like to mention "innocent" ( :) ) Armenian terrorists attacked Bank of Ottoman in Galata, İstanbul and killed several people, and executed an unsuccessful assasination attack with 80 kg bomb against Sultan Abdulhamit, which killed 26 and left 58 wounded in 1905.. Abdulhamit survived thanks to a few minutes of latency..


so coming to the last point, gimme a break..
 

cus

Banned
during the WWI, Russians provoked and armed armenian and greek forces in order to fight against Turkish Army whilst they move in from north-east... so at 15th April 1915, Armenians started an insurgency at Van (also known as Ararat)

now Ottoman Empire should also get into a war in it's own constitution..

at 24th April, the leaders of this outbreak were arrested.. (date sounds familiar? :rolleyes: )


at 27th of May, Armenians settled around the Russian Frontlines are forced to move with a code released from Ottoman Empire..

this of course gave a new dimension...

it was a time of war and government doesnt even have adequate sources to maintain war in three front line...

so in that terrible conditions, most of armenians moving to south were either died from hunger-cold or attacked by burglars..

at that time, orders were sent from Istanbul to cities that for strict maintainance should be taken for the security of moving Armenians, but of course if the Ottoman Empire had adequate potential to maintain it, they should also have won in WW1...


but strange thing popped out when a trial is formed against Ottoman Empire Rulers deported to Malta for Armenian Genocide claims........

English Attorney General in charge asked for official documents used in so called "Armenian Genocide"... English forces searched every in and out going documents in archives of Ottoman Empire and found NOTHING!!!!!!.. so no trial was set..

There's another strange thing.. Reliable sources from Europe says that the total amount of Armenians forced to move is 1,5 million.. but Armenians claim that 1,5 million is dead..

even the edition of Encyclopedia Britannica in 1910 claims that there were 1,5 millions of armenians moving...

but this amount was pumped to 2,5 million at 1953 edition of Encyclopedia Britannica.....

needless to say that the Editor of related article in 1910 edition was English
editor of related article 1953 edition was Armenian....

this could give you a flavour... :fluffy:



I always said I'm sorry for the innocent lives lost.. but there's a different dimension which Pontiakos want to get.. so I'll get into there next..
 

Pontiakos

Starting XI
cus said:
during the WWI, Russians provoked and armed armenian and greek forces in order to fight against Turkish Army whilst they move in from north-east... so at 15th April 1915, Armenians started an insurgency at Van (also known as Ararat)

......


there you go again with that b*llsh*tting.......its starting to smell in this thread.


Greeks and Armenian didn't do sh*t when Russian empirial armies moved in.....Greeks and Armenians saw them as conquerors........and even call upon the Turkish authorities to defend its cities.......The Russian fleet bombed Trabizond (Trapezounta-Trapezeus).......and killed the Greeks and Armenians trying to defend it.

The turkish armies were no were to be found in 1915. And the Greek and Armenian guerilla fighters hadn't even formed as organized units until 1919.............when the Neo-Turks of Kemal started killing innocent civilians.......
 

cus

Banned
so Michael Duntas's grandson.. will you start swearing to me again or will you do something different and lay the true history down!!.. the thing that smell is your own sh*t you should recognize it..

Topal Osman was an uneducated but patriot militia leader whose parents were killed in one of the insurgencies at black sea region!!... he was a militia leader like Cerkes Ethem.. he was ordered to suppress outbreaks at Black Sea region and his rude style wasn't also favoured by M.Kemal.. Topal Osman was ordered to be arrested at Ankara by the order of Mustafa Kemal himself!!!!


Mustafa Kemal could have easily killed war prisoner Trikopis (the greek general in charge) with his own hands in Izmir if he were a rebel as you have mentioned!!!!! but M.Kemal treated him like a human!!!! Discussed the war with him, asked him what he wants, and Trikopis wanted his wife to be informed him as safe, she was in Istanbul at that time....... SOME CAN HAVE DIFFICULTIES IN UNDERSTANDING THIS HENCE THEY DON'T HAVE ENOUGH BRAIN CELLS TO UNDERSTAND :-paul:


if I were you, I'd blaim your allies who pumped you to enter Turkey from İzmir, rather than blaiming Turkish troops who wrote letters to their families saying "what should I say to those who set us as enemies with these greeks?? I don't know them and they don't know me.. why's this war???"


defending my own country never makes me guilty.. I'd fight to my last breath as they did if I lived in those years...... BUT SOME OF US HAVE TROUBLE WITH ACKNOWLEDGING THE HISTORY.. aint it Pontiakos :) :fool:

I don't know what you were pumped and also don't expect you to accept real history..... I don't also care whatever you think about turks and Turkish Republic and you can say whatever you want from your country...

you're also wellcome in turkey with friendly and peaceful travels and sightseekings... but if you ever come again to conquer, you'll not be lucky to find your ass at the other coast once again.. :clapwap: :dragan:

now go back to your hole.. :rofl:
 

Elber2k3

Senior Squad
Shindig said:
Shouldn't we all be orgasming at the fact the US have pulled out of the Geneva convention? Guantanamo's one step away from being a concentration camp.
It isn't yet?
 

Pontiakos

Starting XI
cus said:
so Michael Duntas's grandson.. will you start swearing to me again or will you do something different and lay the true history down!!.. the thing that smell is your own sh*t you should recognize it..

Topal Osman was an uneducated but patriot militia leader whose parents were killed in one of the insurgencies at black sea region!!... he was a militia leader like Cerkes Ethem.. he was ordered to suppress outbreaks at Black Sea region and his rude style wasn't also favoured by M.Kemal.. Topal Osman was ordered to be arrested at Ankara by the order of Mustafa Kemal himself!!!!


Mustafa Kemal could have easily killed war prisoner Trikopis (the greek general in charge) with his own hands in Izmir if he were a rebel as you have mentioned!!!!! but M.Kemal treated him like a human!!!! Discussed the war with him, asked him what he wants, and Trikopis wanted his wife to be informed him as safe, she was in Istanbul at that time....... SOME CAN HAVE DIFFICULTIES IN UNDERSTANDING THIS HENCE THEY DON'T HAVE ENOUGH BRAIN CELLS TO UNDERSTAND :-paul:


if I were you, I'd blaim your allies who pumped you to enter Turkey from İzmir, rather than blaiming Turkish troops who wrote letters to their families saying "what should I say to those who set us as enemies with these greeks?? I don't know them and they don't know me.. why's this war???"


defending my own country never makes me guilty.. I'd fight to my last breath as they did if I lived in those years...... BUT SOME OF US HAVE TROUBLE WITH ACKNOWLEDGING THE HISTORY.. aint it Pontiakos :) :fool:

I don't know what you were pumped and also don't expect you to accept real history..... I don't also care whatever you think about turks and Turkish Republic and you can say whatever you want from your country...

you're also wellcome in turkey with friendly and peaceful travels and sightseekings... but if you ever come again to conquer, you'll not be lucky to find your ass at the other coast once again.. :clapwap: :dragan:

now go back to your hole.. :rofl:



thank you for laying down the history cus....thank God we have you around.

......hhhmmm yeah I agree with you about Topal Osman his family was killed by Greek guerillas ......the question is when?.....the answer is .......AFTER HE BLANTANTLY ATTACKED AND KILLED THE UPROTECTED CIVILIANS OF Kerasunta.


I have successfully proved you wrong in every post you've made and all you do is bullsh*t your way around it.

as far as war and me.......

I haven't made a single imperialistic comment in any post I've made.

I don't want a war with Turkey because I ........unlike some people on both sides of the Aegean........RESPECT LIFE......I don't want any more greeks or turks dying......As far as I can tell though you are ready for another if the Greeks decide to attack.

I would like you to prove to me........

Prove to me since WWI when has Greece intruded Turkish land, sea or air........not a single time.............your jets fligh over our islands and waters intruding our airspace and seas.

If Canada did the same to the U.S it would be considered an act of war....



What I have said is that your government continues to deny any wrong doing even though there is outstanding evidence of the contrary.


...oh but wait.....you are doing the same thing...


sad and disgusting. :nape:


RECOGNISE YOUR WRONG DOINGS AND MOVE ON WITH YOUR LIFE.

all you accomplish by doing the opposite is making your country unstable.

if you want proof of that.......just take a look at the Kurds and ......OH NO :O :O ...the turkish left wing liberals!!!!
 

CapaJr

I Will Learn To Respect My Fellow Man, Even If It
Red Card
hey greek
it took 24 hours for turkish troops to invade cyprus
it will take 48 for athens
watch out
you might see turkish jets around you
 

Jambo Den

Fan Favourite
CapaJr said:
hey greek
it took 24 hours for turkish troops to invade cyprus
it will take 48 for athens
watch out
you might see turkish jets around you

48? slow c*nts.

36, final offer.
 

Pontiakos

Starting XI
CapaJr said:
hey greek
it took 24 hours for turkish troops to invade cyprus
it will take 48 for athens
watch out
you might see turkish jets around you


congratulations ...... you're a moron.... :rolleyes:

read my first post in this thread...
 


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