The England National team thread

ShiftyPowers

Make America Great Again
Viesta_13;2442806 said:
if u're not through @ euro 08, u cant play world cup??? how?? why?? i dont understand... :(

UEFA just drew their World Cup Qualifying Groups and England got put in the same group as Croatia and Ukraine.
 

KingPaulV

Starting XI
Here's the sad part, as someone said, England (unless they have a drastic improvement) look set to miss the world cup too...Ukraine are no push overs, if I remember correctly they were the first team to qualify to the last world cup loosing no games in the last qualifiers; also they dont drop too many points in Kiev....its looks grim for England
 

Callum

Youth Team
Red Card
KingPaulV;2442830 said:
Here's the sad part, as someone said, England (unless they have a drastic improvement) look set to miss the world cup too...Ukraine are no push overs, if I remember correctly they were the first team to qualify to the last world cup loosing no games in the last qualifiers; also they dont drop too many points in Kiev....its looks grim for England

Nah.
 

newbie original

We apologize for keeping the yellow too long
Yellow Card
KingPaulV;2442830 said:
......Ukraine are no push overs, if I remember correctly they were the first team to qualify to the last world cup loosing no games in the last qualifiers; also they dont drop too many points in Kiev........

True, but in more recent times, they finished 7 points behind Scotland(who failed to qualify).
 

Tom

That Nice Guy
ShiftyPowers;2442819 said:
Think they advanced just as far as England in 2006.

Yeah they did, they're a far worse team since then in my opinion. They looked useless in Euro qualifying - worse than us (H)

Scotland
Ukraine

Says it all.
 

BruceLeefan

Club Supporter
Tom;2442860 said:
Yeah they did, they're a far worse team since then in my opinion. They looked useless in Euro qualifying - worse than us (H)

Scotland
Ukraine

Says it all.

Tom, just keep on trashing Ukraine, and you will get it. O, you will get it, believe me!! :kader:
 

Bonzi

Starting XI
RobbieD_PL;2442869 said:
Spot on
(Y)

See, Robbie, you can produce nice posts when not bashing Russia (H)
 

MikeyM

Big Daddy
I posted this in another thread, but I wanted to post it here too

MikeyM;2444143 said:
The simple and painful fact is that there are less English players in the Premiership because ... wait for it .... they...are....simply....not.....good......enough. Okay England does have some supremely gifted players like Rooney and Ferdinand and Terry and Gerrard etc.

I pin the faliure on several factors;

1: The 1966 effect. England has been dining out on this far off triumph for far too long - the survivors are wheeled out time and again and showered with adulation for a tournament largely forgotten by the rest of the world. The attitude should be not "We won the world cup in 1966" but "We've been absolutely pi$$ poor in every tournament for 41 years" Barring 1990, but that was the best we have been.

2: England's players are never to blame. Everytime we nosedive out of a tournament (or fail to get there) the search for "He who is to blame" begins. 1986 - Maradonna, 1990 - Gazza, 1992 - Lineker, 1994 - Koeman, 1996 - Southgate, 1998 - Beckham, 2002 - Ronaldinho, 2004 - Beckham (again), 2006 - Cristiano Ronaldo. Never once can our media say - well we lost because we played a better side, or we made tactical errors. I agree in the case of 2007, Steve McLaren was woefully inequipped to do the job - but ultimately faliure rests at the feet of the players who wandered aimlessly around Wembley.
Look at the logic, it's far easier to print Beckham/Ronaldo's face on a dartboard than face the truth that the England team is largely represented by pampered millionaires amongst which only two or three would happily give blood for the pride of our nation.

3: The media/advertising influences the team. Take Brazil for example, every friendly they have they use the opportunity to try new players and ideas - even the Copa America last year featured debuts for Anderson and promotion of Wagner Love to main player status. Look at any England friendly and you can see the teamsheet in your head (barring injury) Robinson, Neville, Ferdinand, Terry, Cole, Beckham, Lampard, Gerrard, Cole, Rooney and Owen - every single time. Well I'm sorry but there are 60,000,000 who want to see England evolve and do well - yet the FA see the £60,000,000 that Nationwide and Nike and Umbro will titter about giving them if "heavens above" England actually play some young players instead of the "Superstars".

And this leads to the situation that when one of the "Superstars" are injured for a big game, the likes of Scott Carson are baptised in a cauldron of pressure - and if they falter the consequences are dire - Little children will point and laugh at him in the street, and in all probability it'll be a long time before he plays for England again. Because "it was his fault" England lost. Except it wasn't.

How the hell would you feel if the second taste you had of an England cap was in a game where if you made a mistake you'd be "directly responsible" for the total faliure of the team. What if, when England played a "meaningless friendly", Carson had been told "Go out and play son, it really doesn't matter too much if we lose this - so play with no pressure". Then maybe when the call comes for the big games, Scott Carson feels confident and relaxed and can play the game. "I've done this before" he could feel.

4: England believe we have "A devine right" to be involved in these tournaments. We don't - we won't be there in Austria because ah, how do I put this? Ah yes "We played crap over nine or ten games and we don't deserve to be"
Sometimes (as with the Croatia game) you sense the England players feel they just need to turn up because "We are Mighty England" and somehow Croatia will just roll over for us.
As someone said, France failed to qualify for USA94 too, but while England were crying about "Koeman should have gone and the goal was offside etc" France's FA held a meeting and somehow came to the conclusion that it was their fault, and maybe we need to fix some things. And you know what?
That's exactly what they did, and won France98 and Euro 2000 on the spin.

Maybe there's a lesson there - all though the FA (appropriate that it stands for "F*ck All" - which curiously enough is exactly what England has won since 1966 (6) ) will obviously fail to learn it.
 

pede54

Team Captain
Every Nation who ever won a World Cup never stops celebrating or remembering the occasion Mikey. Thats why the winners wear stars on their shirts today. To remind people and themselves. And for pride.

So should we just forget about "old has beens" like Charlton, Pele and Cruyff? After all they havn't even played for decades so surely they must be irrelevant by now too.

I take it that you were not around in 1966. I was. I watched every kick of every ball in that ENTHRALLING World Cup. I saw for the first time Eusebio play. I saw Portugal come back from 3-0 down to Korea, to beat them 5-3, because of 4 goals from Eusebio. I remember that game like it was yesterday.

I saw Karl-Heinz Schnellinger, Franz Beckenbauer and Uwe Seeler play for West Germany. I saw Pelé, Jairzinho, Garrincha and Zito play for Brazil. Georgi Asparuhov for Bulgaria and Lev Yashin for Russia. Thats apart from Jimmy Greaves, B.Charlton. B.Moore, seventeen year old Alan Ball, Gordon Banks and of course Norbert Stiles esq.

My dad took me to the final at Wembly. I still remember it as ( with some bias obviously), the best World Cup final I have ever seen. It had everything that game.

Now if there IS one reason why nobody apart from the English shows any interest in the World Cup Finals of 1966, it is this.

WE WON IT and they didn't. Simple as mate.

Everyone remembers and celebrates the World Cups that their Nation has won. It's the ones that you don't win that you might not bother to remember too much.

I just don't think that winning the thing in 1966 is relevant at all to England's mediocre performances over the years. There are many more valid reasons than that.

We have always been just an " alright" team. We have always had good individual players, but rarely gelled well enough as a squad to take on the World and win. We've had great games of course, and enjoyed great competitions too. Euro '96 was pretty special for England fans you know, but even that was 11 years ago.

Winning the World Cup is the pinnacle for any National team. When it's won, it gets written into the history of that Nation, and the players become Legends. That applies all over the World. It is a Nations yardstick to what is possible.......Which brings me to this......

I have never thought that England would ever walk over any one team ever. I do not and have not, known anyone who thinks we have a "divine right" to qualify for anything or everything either. This image that is portrayed, of the English fans who think that our team is the best in the World, is an innacurate generalisation. The vast majority of England fans, (not counting the idiots of course), are well aware of our place in International football. Of course we fans normally go into games with confidence. Thats because for all the crap we have had to put up with for years, we still fervently support our National side. We areloyal fans. Our fans are no more cocky than any other Nations fans. The difference is, when they do it it's taken as showing the expected support for your team. When we do it it's called arrogance.

Don't agree that there are England players who would not give blood for the team. Many players play crap somtimes but that does not mean that they do not care. That can apply to any team, anywhere.

You say with sarcasm that "England players are never to blame". Then you name FOUR England players who carried the can after one failure or another. Then you say that the 1986 "Hand of God" incident was not such a big deal? After that incredible behaviour, the England team were so spaced out that even I could have run rings around Peter Ried and scored a second goal moments after the first one. It was Peter Reid FFS, and don't even start about Ronaldo man.:)

We are not the only Nation to find scapegoats either. Di Baggio at USA 94 World Cup comes to mind instantly. Have the Italians EVER forgiven him? They all do it man.

We need a coach who can take us forward instead of keeping us where we are. It does not matter who he is or where he comes from. The media and the FA chose an Englishman last time out, so lets hope they won't make that mistake again.

I mention the English media because they have an almighty portion of the blame to carry. Not only do they give us, the fans, the image at home and abroad that we neither seek nor deserve, but deeper than that, they have too much of a say in the running of things in general. It is THEY who will tell the FA who the "peoples choice" for manager will be. It is they who will lobby the FA to install THEIR favourite as the next coch too.

They destroy players confidence at every opportunity with negative reporting verging on hysteria, and if they can turn the fans against a certain player, especially an England player that THEY have a personal beef with, then so much the better. The worrying thing is that this actually happens, mainly because there are still a lot of morons out there who allow the Sun and others to "educate" them in the ways of the football world and how they should be feeling about certain matters. They are a minority thankfully, but why is it that the loud minority always seem to represent the quieter majority?

I do agree with a lot of the blame being laid at the FA's door though. Most of those guys have never even been on a football pitch. They know nothing about football at all. They are businessmen. They need to go, but they will not.

There are problems. That we do know. It has nothing whatsoever to do with how rich the players are. Players from all over the World are stinking rich mate. Money is one thing but, titles, trophy's and Honour come a long way ahead of money to most football players.

Anyway, I dont think this has much to do with any individual players failings or not, its way deeper than that, and the rot began long before our players were making shed loads of money.

I dunno, but I get a very subtle Man U vibe from some of the post. Too much support for Man U players probably the cause of that. Or maybe I'm seeing something that aint there?

Also too similar in opinion to most of the hysterical "red tops" for my liking too man. Still it's good to get things off your chest mate.(Y)
 

MikeyM

Big Daddy
Thank you for a balanced and well thought out reply. I can understand exactly how you feel about 1966 (how old are you to have been there - I had you down as my age!) I am not for one second decrying what the 1966 team achieved or indeed legends of the game (I still love footage of the greats). It's rather I subscribe to the Roy Keane/Sir Alex Ferguson school of thought that "okay we won that, but lets concentrate on what we have to do to do it again"

Perhaps you can pick up on the United undercurrent because of that mentality, or perhaps because the last "chosen sacraficial lambs" have all come from United (Beckham, Neville and Ronaldo) Or just perhaps because you saw my sig ;) When I said "England players are never to blame" I mean collectively - the media never has a problem singling players out.

I agree exactly with what you said about the media, it is they who wield too much say in what goes on - Part of the reason I'd like to see Jose in Soho Square, is simply because I think that he'll tell the media to jump off a cliff when it comes to who he wants for his team. And how he plays them too. The England Manager needs to have the self assuredness and (maybe) a certain degree of arrogance and conviction in his own plans.

That is where England falls down as I said. The England team is never picked on form, just reputation. (And for that you can blame the press) Darren Bent scored 23 goals in the Premiership last year and got not a sniff of a run in the side.

And yes I admit, that piece was written with the patriotic passion coursing through my veins - I would love to see England truly become one of the heavyweights of the World game. Also I've been reading a lot of Jeremy Clarkson recently - couldn't tell at all could you? ;)
 

pede54

Team Captain
Hahahaha...nice one Mikey.

Well these problems we have certainly need discussion. Thats healthy. I wish I had all the answers though, but I dont. So to talk about it can only be useful.

I hear today that Barwick has had meetings with various people with the intention of disecting the problems in the English game. These included Platini and Beckenbauer. I can understand why Barwick thinks that consulting these two guys could be useful. Their opinions could be useful if nothing else.

The media on the other hand are now up in arms because " The Mighty England", are stooping so low that they consult with a Frenchman and a German about the future of the National English football team.

And there lies one of our biggest problems. With a media as insular as ours, and with the " Little Englander" mentality that they exercise, they still insist that surely things are not THAT bad, that these meetings with these two particular guys needed to be arranged.

What it shows me is that Barwick, on the surface at least, is showing a determination to get to the roots of the problems that we have been going through. I can see how useful it could be to consult with these fellas, and I'd back Barwick to do more of the same. Its a positive move.

Some media though, regard his actions as tantamount to treason. Well not quite but you know what I mean.

I'm starting to feel confident that the FA, or at least Barwick is now willing to look at themselves, and to not just look at better ways to run the National Game, but to massively improve it. It'll be a long road I don't doubt.
 

whathe

Club Supporter


SYDNEY, AUSTRALIA - NOVEMBER 28: Footballer David Beckham meets a fan during a public appearance.

lol is she wearing a top with a Croatian emblem? (no idea how my eyes caught that (H) )
Not very nice of her just a week after England got knocked out by them. :(
 


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