The England National team thread

MikeyM

Big Daddy
pede54;2444820 said:
Hahahaha...nice one Mikey.

I hear today that Barwick has had meetings with various people with the intention of disecting the problems in the English game. These included Platini and Beckenbauer. I can understand why Barwick thinks that consulting these two guys could be useful. Their opinions could be useful if nothing else.

The media on the other hand are now up in arms because " The Mighty England", are stooping so low that they consult with a Frenchman and a German about the future of the National English football team.

And there lies one of our biggest problems. With a media as insular as ours, and with the " Little Englander" mentality that they exercise, they still insist that surely things are not THAT bad, that these meetings with these two particular guys needed to be arranged.

What it shows me is that Barwick, on the surface at least, is showing a determination to get to the roots of the problems that we have been going through. I can see how useful it could be to consult with these fellas, and I'd back Barwick to do more of the same. Its a positive move.

Some media though, regard his actions as tantamount to treason. Well not quite but you know what I mean.

I'm starting to feel confident that the FA, or at least Barwick is now willing to look at themselves, and to not just look at better ways to run the National Game, but to massively improve it. It'll be a long road I don't doubt.

I didn't know about that. That is a very good move IMO and yes it does show a bit of intelligence from the suits at Soho square. I think it will take a long time to sort the game out in this country, I think the whole thing needs to be disected from grassroots level. I read the other day about how United go about training their junior players - emphasis on ball control and freedom of expression, very continental. I think the problems hampering development of English grown players start at the sunday league level.

From a very early age, kids are thrown into games on full size pitches and being screamed at by adults (parents and coaches) to win by any means - usually hoofing the ball 60 yards and chasing it. Compare this to the education that Brazilian or Portuguese children get. Cristiano Ronaldo used to play on a dirt pitch in a Madeira slum, yet he played in small sided games (like Futsal) and was allowed to become comfortable and familiar with the ball, then he could take the skills learnt and then apply them in full sized games.

People seem to think it's a problem that you can throw money at - no it isn't, just look at the childhood of so many continental stars: Pele and Ronaldo (both) didn't even have proper balls (using oranges, cans and bundles of socks) It's not a money issue, it's an infrastructure issue.

Fundamental changes need to happen for the game to move forward in this country. Children need to be able to take time and space to learn the basics of ball control - that starts with P.E at school and should be continued by competent coaches at youth level. Why aren't junior coaches subject to minimum requirements like teachers and youth workers are? As it stands, some kid's Dad who believes he is the second coming of Sir Alf Ramsey can assume control of a team - that's fine if he does know what he's doing, but there's no guarantee he does is there?
Okay training coaches would take money, but when the top players are earning 100K per week - there's obviously no shortage of money in the game - that imbalance needs looking at IMO.
The beauty of football is that kids learn to kick a ball as toddlers - all you need is a ball (and as I said before- improvisation makes even that unnecessary)

Looking at the next step, it seems to me that the focus is on kids who have the ball skills of Joe Cole, or the physique of Rooney straight off the bat. What about those kids like Ian Wright, David Beckham, or Alan Shearer who honed their game through hours of dedication and practice? How many kids are lost to the game because despite their willingness to learn, they are ignored for the latest "wonderkid" in the area. Why not concentrate on those who show the determination to improve, and learn.

Kids are thrust right into a "only the strong shall survive" cut-throat environment (and while a case can be made that it's a good thing in some ways) that perhaps allows those without the natural talent to feel alienated from the game. Why should they put the effort in if it's going to be ignored?

And now we look at the top level. Are there too many foreign imports in the game? Yes - but before we start brandishing placards and picketing 1 SoHo square, we should perhaps ask why?

1: They are better technically, and receive a better football education.
2: They are mostly cheaper to buy, the game in England is so unbalanced that English clubs need raise money - the smaller clubs obviously try to wring all the money they can out of the bigger boys cherry picking their talent. Is it right that Arsenal paid so much for Jermain Pennant, when they snapped up Cesc Fabregas for comparative buttons? You would make a strong case that Cesc is the better player of the two. Man Utd bought Cristiano Ronaldo for £12M yet Wayne Rooney cost double that the following summer. Reason? Everton knew they needed maximum return from Rooney's sale. So did Sporting, but they knew foreign players aren't going for the same rates as English players can fetch.

Chelsea bought SWP for £20M and you wouldn't argue successfully that he was worth more money than Ronaldo. The maths is simple - Chelsea and Manchester United and the big boys in England are swimming in money, yet the clubs all the way down are struggling. I lost my hometown club to crippling debts in 1989, So I know whereof I speak.

It is not one problem, but many that need addressing, and if the FA want to seek wise council from the likes of Beckenbauer and Platini - then more power to them.

Oh and the press? Somehow I can't see them complaining if somewhere down the line England begin to win things.
 

adedawson

Senior Squad
As someone said, France failed to qualify for USA94 too, but while England were crying about "Koeman should have gone and the goal was offside etc" France's FA held a meeting and somehow came to the conclusion that it was their fault, and maybe we need to fix some things. And you know what?
That's exactly what they did, and won France98 and Euro 2000 on the spin.

Maybe there's a lesson there - all though the FA (appropriate that it stands for "F*ck All" - which curiously enough is exactly what England has won since 1966 ) will obviously fail to learn it.

As I've mentioned a number of times now. I think it boils down to that. Other countries have evaluated themselves and tried to fix problems within there national side. France being a great example. England's FA on the other hand...
 

pede54

Team Captain
Can someone explain to me the attributes possessed by Martin O'Niell, that sees him judged as a master of the game, and a favourite to manage the England set up?

He got Leciester promoted to the top division some years ago. Helped them to 2 League Cup victories over the next few years and left them for Celtic.

He had a good run in the SPL, but in a 2 horse race the odds on coming out on top are pretty favourable I think.

Has done fu<k all in Europe with any of his clubs and has done fu<k all in the EPL.

To me he is just another average manager. I watched the Villa V Arsenal game today, and he did not have a clue how to challenge a very below par Arsenal. He also has an anthology of excuses that he delves into, much too often for my liking.

I for one would not want this no hoper in charge of England, and for the life of me cannot understand why the media, and many others are so ready to kiss his arse. Maybe I'm missing something here, but I think not.
 

pede54

Team Captain
Tom;2446063 said:
Nah, i agree entirely Pete, i don't understand the obsession.


Well, nice one Tom. I was beginning to wonder if I was the only one who thinks he is very over rated. I just cannot understand the obsession that so many people have with the bloke. He is just so ordinary. Not much better than McClaren IMO. I hope to God he keeps saying no to the FA. otherwise our agony is just going to go on and on.
 

MikeyM

Big Daddy
pede54;2446100 said:
Well, nice one Tom. I was beginning to wonder if I was the only one who thinks he is very over rated. I just cannot understand the obsession that so many people have with the bloke. He is just so ordinary. Not much better than McClaren IMO. I hope to God he keeps saying no to the FA. otherwise our agony is just going to go on and on.

People like O'Neil because he's animated and passionate. He kicks every ball with his players and he's great at motivating people. I agree I don't think he has the experience England need though (The same argument for Stuart Pearce) I do however, think he's going to become a great manager (And I hope a future Man Utd manager in a few years)

The thing that really did McLaren in IMO was the way he "phoned in" the game at Wembley whilst standing under an Umbrella - it just looked like he didn't have a clue, or indeed care.
 

pede54

Team Captain
MikeyM;2447039 said:
People like O'Neil because he's animated and passionate. He kicks every ball with his players and he's great at motivating people. I agree I don't think he has the experience England need though (The same argument for Stuart Pearce) I do however, think he's going to become a great manager (And I hope a future Man Utd manager in a few years)

The thing that really did McLaren in IMO was the way he "phoned in" the game at Wembley whilst standing under an Umbrella - it just looked like he didn't have a clue, or indeed care.


Mikey, what has the over rated numpty ever achieved really? Animated and passionate? So was Graham Taylor mate. So are hundreds of managers. That is not particularly a sign of a great coach just an animated and passionate man. I also think his "passion" is more like desperation, because you only see his "passion" when things are going badly on the pitch.

Motivational? Yeah, i watched him motivating his players again last week against Arsenal. They were unmotivated and clueless. So either they do not understand English or he is not up to the job. I know which one I'll go for.

As a tactician he really stinks, and why the hell you are one day looking to welcome this dick to Man U is beyond me. I would never want to see him at my club. The man is all hype.

He will never be a great coach, just an average one.
 

Tom

That Nice Guy
I want Jose to get the job, if only for the fact that whatever (WHATEVER) happens it'll be comedic brilliance.
 

MikeyM

Big Daddy
pede54;2447269 said:
Mikey, what has the over rated numpty ever achieved really? Animated and passionate? So was Graham Taylor mate. So are hundreds of managers. That is not particularly a sign of a great coach just an animated and passionate man. I also think his "passion" is more like desperation, because you only see his "passion" when things are going badly on the pitch.

Motivational? Yeah, i watched him motivating his players again last week against Arsenal. They were unmotivated and clueless. So either they do not understand English or he is not up to the job. I know which one I'll go for.

As a tactician he really stinks, and why the hell you are one day looking to welcome this dick to Man U is beyond me. I would never want to see him at my club. The man is all hype.

He will never be a great coach, just an average one.


Well I don't think we're gonna agree on this one - but I like the guy. I think he could do the job at a big club someday.
 

pede54

Team Captain
You may well be right Mikey. I could be wrong in the long term, but at this moment in time, he does not do it for me mate. He's 51 years old . He is not a young coach just starting out. I know that you are never to old to learn, but I just wouldn't take the risk with O'Neill. As I said, its only my opinion mate and that doesn't mean that I'm right.

Tom, you are right mate. It would be a fun time for all I am sure of that:)
 

adedawson

Senior Squad
Hopefully Hatton can put some pride back into English nationalism this weekend. :shades:

Just want him to bring Mayweather back down to earth, he thinks he's the best fighter of all time :confused:

Mayweather: 'I am the best fighter of this era' || 'I'm better than Ali'

bold statements
 

Daz

Everyone's Favourite Diabetic
Tom;2447415 said:
I want Jose to get the job, if only for the fact that whatever (WHATEVER) happens it'll be comedic brilliance.
(H) i'm with you on this one, Tom (Y)
 

pede54

Team Captain
So Villa lose again, and O'Neill delves into his book of excuses once again. After losing 3-1 at home to Portsmouth he says,

"Even though we lost against Arsenal, I felt our confidence was enhanced if anything going into this game.

"But we get knocked back by a fluke of a goal by Craig Gardner and their other two goals are from wonder strikes.

"But we still had chances and had we taken them it would have been a different story. Martin Laursen had a great chance to make it 1-1 and David James produced a fantastic save to halt Gabriel Agbonlahor. That would have made it 2-1 and would have made a big difference in the game.

"We have a decent belief in the team and when we pulled one back late on through Gareth Barry's penalty, I still felt we could get something from game."

Talk about stating the obvious.

This is O'Neill at his bull shi.tting best. He talks a good game, and has endless mitigating reasons why he is a flop, but that is all he has.

Every result like this moves him further away from the England post. Well at least I hope it does.
 

pede54

Team Captain
Well I would have been amazed if Jose had of taken the job.

After the way he was treated in England while he was Chelsea coach, by the media, the FA and football fans alike, he must of been astounded by the fickle attitude of the English.

Personally if I were him, I would have come right out with it and said, " You treat me like s.h.it for 3 years, and then, when your National team need a saviour, suddenly I'm the best guy in the World. Fu<k you hypocrites."

Good thing Jose is more diplomatic than I am I guess.
 

Nettles

Youth Team
Tiago_10;2450702 said:
I'm guessing he's thinking of coaching a NT only when he's older.

nah he woulda taken it. FA/barwick probably f*cked up, didn't agree with mourinho on somethin important probably and will probably screw up again with capello or whoever if they even get round to an interview.

i wouldn't mind capello for results, just that it'd be nice to have a more attacking coach but considering the terrific state of the strikers, an attacking coach might be a bad thing.
 

Tiago_10

Senior Squad
Nettles;2450905 said:
nah he woulda taken it. FA/barwick probably f*cked up, didn't agree with mourinho on somethin important probably and will probably screw up again with capello or whoever if they even get round to an interview.

i wouldn't mind capello for results, just that it'd be nice to have a more attacking coach but considering the terrific state of the strikers, an attacking coach might be a bad thing.

The way I see it, Mourinho never really wanted the job, still he was polite and willing to listen to what the FA wanted and had to offer, and he certainly asked for astronomical amounts of money so eventually no deal could be reached.

He had already mentioned in a interview in the portuguese press he wasn't planning to coach a national team (when asked about the possibilty of coaching the portuguese NT) at this stage of his coaching career, and I agree the way the press treated him most of the time didn't help in his decision either.


Regarding Capello I think he's the total opposite of what the english mentality of the game is, from my perspective. Unless you want some cattenaccio, then yeah he will deliver it.

Also, good for you Scolari is no longer being linked to a move to England, he's useless as a tactician, all he does (some may consider it a lot) is motivate the players, protect them, create a good environment surronding the squad..
 

newbie original

We apologize for keeping the yellow too long
Yellow Card


Roger Hunt could have just followed through to tap it in rather than quitting only to stick up his hand and turn away?

EDIT: For me, the first words that come to mind are thsoe of Buffalo Sabres Coach Lindy Ruff after the game winner scored by Brett Hull(Dallas) in the '99 Stanley Cup final against Buffalo, in Buffalo....Hull scored after the play should have ended. When addressing the fans, in the streets of Buffalo, he said that he would like them to remember two words for the rest of the summer......"NO GOAL"!
 


Top