Afraid of Americans???

[CODAVE]

I am starting to sound preachy because I have left a similar message on another post. Anyway, I just wanted to get my point across here.

By no means am I happy about the Man Utd/Yankee deal. It's only going to be bad for the game. I have seen a lot of posts speaking about America/Americans being so greedy, and taking over the world..blah,blah. In many ways I am in complete agreement with you. Our "society" in America holds nothing sacred and the American influence is spreading ever faster with the introduction of the internet.

However, I have a question for all of you who are not Americans: Should you blame Corporate America or the ones who sell out to them? You are using Microsoft, play our computer games, watch our movies and TV shows, wear our clothes, drink our Coca Cola, maybe drive our cars, eat our McDonalds..etc.. I could go on forever.
If you don't like the American influence, why do you soak it up like a sponge??? Look around you, open your eyes! If you cherish your heritage, don't sell out!!! And if you do sell out, don't bitcccch about it. I remember when all of the great music came out of Europe and now you import all of our crap there! To me this is as bad or worse than the changes this deal will bring to football!

 

[Rob Canada]

Well I'd agree with you up to a point CODAVE...

See the thing is up here in Canada, we are so close to you that anything of ours that is good or becomes successful is bought out by Corporate America...It is pretty hard to fight, America tries to leave its footprint EVERYWHERE!!!

I mean, we have American companies like Sears, Wal-Mart, McDonalds, Home Depot, etc... that come up here and destroy Canadian firms by exploiting our lower dollar and utilizing profits gained in the States to undersell Canadian companies...Gone are Woodwards, Eaton's (at least not SEARS EATONS!!!), among others. As well we used to have a great deal of British companies in Canada; Woolworth's, Marks and Spencer, Boots, etc... but they have all left because of being muscled out by American companies made so rich at home that they can afford to throw away a bit of money in other countries until they have squeezed out the market.

While I agree that the people and companies that sell out are partly to blame, the reality is that American Capitalism dominates so much of the world that it is often just too hard for domestic companies to keep on fighting...to them, they feel they should just take what they can get and leave before the Americans destroy them completely.

Then again, in the Man U case, when the club doesn't need to whore itself to the Yanks, it is despicable that they do.

Rob

 

[dcunik]

the truth is....Corporate America is not to blame. Face it....Americans knows how to deal with their money. The business world is an even field....if you can't handle the heat...pack up and leave. You just can't say...."Americans destroy domestic businesses in your country." Think about it, point 1) American Businesses are bringing job to your people 2) American Businesses won't succeed in a foreign land if what they bring is not a "QUALITY." Do you think these business will survive if the locals don't patronize and buy these products? 3) If you look at the Japanese....they are successful in the car and electronics industry....they import electronics and cars here in the U.S.....did we complain? NO...why? because they bring something that is with great quality and we recognize that.

Just my thought.

Express yourself =).

Cheers.

 

[Socceraddict]

I do agree with all of you. However, one must realize that America is a Capitalist Country which means basically that money is front and foremost. America is a proud, loyal, and faithful country BUT they are also greedy and has a current government who will deny the rights of any immigrant entering their country to their rights of freedom and expression unless they first claim to be American and drop their ethnicity. This works well for the Americans because they have the NYSE, they run the NASDAQ, they control the flow of money anywhere in the world. Everything is compared to the American dollar now-a-days. America has presented itself as the ONLY Country to live in. When you travel to Europe why are Americans told to take off their American Flags on their backpacks? No other Country has that problem. Why does America have to stick their political and Armed Forces nose's in business that has nothing to do with them? . "If you not with America then your against it." - Colin Powell (1993) I'm by no means Anti-American but Americans seem to hold grudges against Countries that were corrupt decades ago (Let's look at Cuba, shall we?)
Getting back to the point...
America with all of the money, the millionaires/billionaires, is looking at a deficit in the trillion dollar range. Something is definitely not right there. Free trade is run by the Americans (yes, I'll admit our Government was stupid in signing the NAFTA agreement, we as people, were not even involved in the decision.) Canada has been looked at as the Best Place to Live - United Nations Survey (1999)which is one of the reasons why American companies have infiltrated into Canada. It's also a loss for the Americans as well because of this as your Tourism from Canadians has dropped immensly from the onset of allowing stores such as Walmart to come and take over Woolco (our Canadian counterpart). If you need to ask yourself a question, it's not how, when, where, or even what, it's why we allow foreign companies to take over our historic companies and deplete our Canadian History by doing nothing to stop this from happening. All we have to do is look at the Financial losses by Eatons, Woolworths, etc. etc. etc.

 

[CODAVE]

I agree with everything you said.

 

[dragan84]

Well, now i'm confused: Why isn't this post moved to the other/non football section??

 

[Drinky]

Congratulations on the 19,000th post, dragan84 - if it has been the 20,000th, there might have been a little more song-and dance. As it is... keep up the good posting

 

[kaytan]

In response to DCUNIK:

You use the automotive industry as an example of the USA accepting things that are good and not complaining... just wanted to point out to you that Chrysler merged with Daimler-Benz (There goes the great old Mercedes) and Ford bought out Mazda and Jaguar and Land Rover... Not to mention all the smaller car companies like Suzuki and Lotus that were bought over by GM...

Lotus being the saddest case of all... great cars turned to crap by the Americans... thank god they haven't affectd it's outside US designs! Anyway, just wanted to point that out...

Later,
KayTan

 

[SCTW]

<font face="Arial" size="2">Originally posted by dragan84:
Well, now i'm confused: Why isn't this post moved to the other/non football section??

</font>

Done . . .

 

[CODAVE]

Rob Canada: Let me repeat myself. If you don't like Americanization don't buy into it then. Don't whine and then go to Wal-Mart, Sears, McDonalds etc,etc.

 

[dcunik]

First, i just want to let you people know that i'm just saying my views about "US" Americans. I think this is a productive way of discussing stuff like this rather than doing it in a violent way. So, let's be all professional in giving our opinions and don't take grudges to whatever someone say. Let us all be open-minded and respect others opinions.

Now, going back to the discussion. I am just wondering why blame "US" Americans with the downfall of your local businesses? In the first place, American Companies won't succeed without you patronizing "our" products. That's the bottom line in business, if customers won't buy "our" products, there's no way these "corporate" companies will be leeching your local businesses. Its a fact that these American Companies are doing well in your country because of customers patronizing their products. Isn't it?

I am an immigrant of this country...and I don't think my freedom of speech and my ethnicity was thrown away when I turned and pledge my allegiance to the United States. Am I brain-washed by the American Culture? I don't think I am. Why I say this? Well, I still do keep in touch with my relatives back home. I still do speak my native tongue. I stll do possess the customs and characteristics of the country where I came from.

About the Americans intervening in other countries, affairs. Yes, I can admit to it....sometimes I feel that there's a malice behind what the U.S. government is doing in intervening with the internal problems of other countries. But, let us pause for awhile and think open-mindedly about it. Remember Somalia? Genocide happened there. Innocent people are dying for no reason at all but, ethnic differences. Who did came in to save the lives of these innocent civilians? not to mention children....yes, I think you know that. One more thing, I think you wont forget what happened to the former Yugoslavia. If nobody will step between the wars that is happening all over the world....we will all end up dead. Nuclear war is inevitable. Now, tell me if what the United States government did was wrong in preventing further ravage to these nations? Atleast give it a thought. Why do we have to blame the Americans all the time? The success of your local businesses depends on you, not Corporate America.

Side note: I love A&W burgers and fries =). I think its a Canadian based fast food. Am I right?

Cheers.




[This message has been edited by dcunik (edited 02-10-2001).]

 

[dragan84]

Oh, i guess it did get moved?!

 

[dragan84]

Drinky: What in the damn world did u mean by that?!

 

[dragan84]

One thing that really reveals how USA is as a country is the fact that there are basically two parties the democrats and republicans........and this thing with that missile defense shield: If Russia was planning to build one everybody in american would go nuts! So mu point is: Don't build it you hypocrites!

 

[Socceraddict]

Ok. Let's break up what dcunik had to say...

"I am an immigrant of this country...and I don't think my freedom of speech and my ethnicity was thrown away when I turned and pledge my allegiance to the United States. Am I brain-washed by the American Culture? I don't think I am. Why I say this? Well, I still do keep in touch with my relatives back home. I still do speak my native tongue. I still do possess the customs and characteristics of the country where I came from."

You know, that sounds wonderful, question though, does the US recognize your ethnicity and what do they do about it? As for being brainwashed, I never said anything about brainwashing. Although now that you brought it up, one has to wonder. You see, in Canada, we recognize ALL nations (Communist or not), we signify that beauty by allowing those that enter our country their rights and traditions from their countries. Once you become Canadian you are known as French Canadian, Polish-Canadian, Filipino-Canadian, etc, etc. Everyone living in Canada has translators to help them with Government issues (ie. taxes etc.). In America, once you become American you lose your status from the country you come from. You are now known as just American.

"Remember Somalia? Genocide happened there. Innocent people are dying for no reason at all but, ethnic differences. Who did came in to save the lives of these innocent civilians? not to mention children....yes, I think you know that. One more thing, I think you wont forget what happened to the former Yugoslavia. If nobody will step between the wars that is happening all over the world....we will all end up dead. Nuclear war is inevitable. Now, tell me if what the United States government did was wrong in preventing further ravage to these nations? At least give it a thought. Why do we have to blame the Americans all the time?

Let's think about this, shall we? There is World Hunger, strife in Africa, major wars in the Gaza strip (Israel and Palestine). How many homeless does America have? How many children are dying of hunger in America? How many people have nothing, no shelter, no food, no family or friends, nothing, in America? Why then, doesn't the Government of the United States worry first about their own before going into a war with Countries I'm sure most of the Americans have never heard of before. War costs money, lives, and breaks up families. This is something you want your Government doing? Well, if you do, then I'm glad your American and I live in one of the most peaceful Countries in the World. Oh and by the way, the American Armed Forces did diddly squat in Yugoslavia they almost made it worse, the Yugoslav's themselves made the Country better by revolting against a Dictator Government.When a Government continually uses the Nuclear War threat, do you think any of us will be left around on this planet? Give that a thought. Further ravage? What happened in Somalia, in Vietnam, American troops were pulled because they knew that they were losing a battle which they couldn't win. Do some history, my friend. Please read some books authored by someone who isn't a patriotic American.
The American patriotism makes me ill because it is self serving, selfish, and one minded. Never once did any Patriotic American Movie did it look at the damage done against another country because everyone seems to be the enemy if your not American.
I do agree with you though that it is up to us, the people living outside of the US to do something about the hostile overtaking of some of our Historic companies.
Enough of my rant (for now).

 

[dcunik]

SoccerAddict,

Its pointless to argue if you say, we lose our ethnicity if we pledge to the American Flag by just calling us "AMERICANS" not Filipino-American, blah blah....those are mere words....our ethnicity is divided us Asians, Caucasians, Pacific Islander, Black-African, Hispanics, etc....

Yes, you are right, we have domestic issues we need to deal with. Nobody is perfect....are we dealing with it? Not in a very good way, i must admit. I'm not saying the American System of Governing is the way to go. Its just unfair for "US" Americans, that YOU people judge us like that....everytime something comes up....its always "Blame it to the Yanks." Don't you think that's selfishness too? Or is it Ignorance of the fact that you control your own destiny? If something didn't go well in your country and an American company took over it....blame the CEO of that company...its his/her fault....not us "AMERICANS".

Hmmm...wonder if it really needs research about what happened in Somalia and Yugoslavia. I know for sure, Canadians, Italians and British sent their own troops in Somalia and Yugoslavia....We won't be there if the United Nations didn't say we should and you were part of it. So..don't blame the Americans of what happened in those countries simply because we sent the most number of U.N. Peacekeepers. Tell me....those people are dying....helpless...who will help them? Where is your compassion my friend. I don't have to protect the U.S. goverment really...coz, I have my own life to live...I am just sick of you people "Rants the Americans" and infact you are using one of their inventions right now reading this post =).

About the defense shield: in the first place...i am against it....now, i guess i'll change my mind about it...coz i didn't know there are so much hatred going on in us "AMERICANS" =)

Cheers.

[This message has been edited by dcunik (edited 02-11-2001).]

[This message has been edited by dcunik (edited 02-11-2001).]

 

[Socceraddict]

"Its pointless to argue if you say, we lose our ethnicity if we pledge to the American Flag by just calling us "AMERICANS" not Filipino-American, blah blah....those are mere words....our ethnicity is divided us Asians, Caucasians, Pacific Islander, Black-African, Hispanics, etc...."

It's not pointless to discuss, you live in a Country which has a Government who doesn't "recognize" you for who you really are, whether it be French-American, Asian-American, Spanish - American, African-American, you are known as only American not First Nations - American, Aboriginal-American, Norwegian - American etc. What does the Government do to allow you to keep your traditions and customs?

"Its just unfair for "US" Americans, that YOU people judge us like that....everytime something comes up....its always "Blame it to the Yanks." Don't you think that's selfishness too? Or is it Ignorance of the fact that you control your own destiny?"

You even thinking that shows your ignorance as an American that once America does something, then it is wrong for the rest of the world to critique it. In my opinion, what you are saying is that once America does something then it is right, no matter what other Countries may think. How do you find it to be selfish? America has been known to be self serving, ego-maniacal, and ignorant of any other Country that isn't democratic in its thinking.

"If something didn't go well in your country and an American company took over it....blame the CEO of that company...its his/her fault....not us "AMERICANS"."

No, I'm sorry to correct you, but the blame should be laid on the Government to allow this type of thing to happen. In this case, the American Government was about to use Tariffs and other forms of taxes if Canada didn't succeed to their wishes. Please look up the case law for the North American Free Trade Act. (NAFTA).

"I know for sure, Canadians, Italians and British sent their own troops in Somalia and Yugoslavia...."

Yes to maintain peace which is why we're called "Peace-keepers."

"We won't be there if the United Nations didn't say we should and you were part of it. So..don't blame the Americans of what happened in those countries simply because we sent the most number of U.N. Peacekeepers"

The UN asked for Peace Keepers so we went. The US Government said (in a televised Presidential address) that they are going to "war" againt "a faction of Government that is biased, undemocratic, and is run by a dictatorship." The US sent their Army to war not to Peace Keep.

"Where is your compassion my friend. I don't have to protect the U.S. goverment really...coz, I have my own life to live...I am just sick of you people "Rants the Americans" and infact you are using one of their inventions right now reading this post =)."

My campassion is with those who are left homeless, kids who have no food, no money, who look in garbage cans for food. My compaaion is with those first in my city, second in my province, third in my country. What about you? Do you feel that people in another country are more important then your own? You are right though in me using an American invention, it's because the Japanese haven't thought of anything better to make yet. LOL

"About the defense shield: in the first place...i am against it....now, i guess i'll change my mind about it...coz i didn't know there are so my hatred going on in us "AMERICANS" =)"

So does that mean that you're just another American statistic following everything you read about and see on American television???
Just curious.

 

[dcunik]

My Friend,

Don't be too much technical about "Blah-American," how will it ensure preservation of one's ethnicity? Remember, being a melting pot there are things going on....take the case of marriage....there are cross race marriages. How will you address the ethnicity the child? Norweigan-Cambodian-American and it doesn't stop there. Get the point? Preserving your ethnicity lies within the individual not those "words" you said.

SoccerAddict, you have laws and rules in how to deal with foreigners who wants to start business in your country...we don't make those rules, you do. The fact that those American businesses made it thru...is not my business really.....they did it the legal way....so? what's wrong with that? Your Country is a member of NAFTA, now, stop complaining about the Tariffs and stuff....we don't decide...they do. My concern is that....the Americans that just simply living their lives in every day (including me) are being judge by you. When u said "AMERICANS" that involves everyone in America....now, tell me if its not a generalization? tell me if that's not ignorance? If you refer to those scums in the Business world...then refer to them. Don't generalize the whole American Society.

One more thing, if you are asking me if what i have done in my community? Well, I have had volunteered in the past tutoring math in my local school district...it was 2 hours every Saturday during summer time. I did some volunteer works when the 1994 earthquake happened in Northridge, Ca. I guess that's good enough reason for me to say? Want more, just ask.

If you are open-minded you wont generalize the American Society. Not all in this country are scums as what you people think. Not all in this country are greedy and want to step over one's dignity. Not all in this country make a living in an easy way. There are decent "AMERICANS" that earn a living and raise their family with hardwork, sweats and calluses on their hands and feet. So, DON'T generalize US as one. Address those people you want to attack and have grudges with directly....not referring them all as "AMERICANS" coz you are basically saying that whole American Society is corrupted which is not.

CHeers.

 

[Socceraddict]

You still haven't answered any of my questions I posted the last time.
I never asked you what you did in your community. Re-read what I said.
I'm not generalizing anything but my own opinions.
Please don't try to turn this conversation around. You originally brought it up and now you don't answer the questions, please do?

 

[dcunik]

SoccerAddict, which questions i should answer? please point out.

I think i have explain my side of the story. I answered your question about "Norweigian-American, etc..." I also answered your question about "what does the U.S. government do to preserve her populations ethniticity." In this country its "ask what you can do for your country not what your country can do for you" that's probably why more US Businesses are succeeding. We don't wait for the goverment to do something to alleviate our needs we do what we can do. Self-reliance and hardwork!!! I also answered your question about NAFTA.

And your saying your not generalizing "US" Americans? Want me to quote you once?

"How do you find it to be selfish? America has been known to be self serving, ego-maniacal, and ignorant of any other Country that isn't democratic in its thinking."

Now, explain it....isn't that generalization? If you are refering to the U.S. Government say the U.S. Gov't. coz America is not only the U.S. Gov't. but also the immigrants and native indians who habited this land.

My friend, I am not turning the issue around...from the start...i said it....don't let your emotions get into this...this is a discussion of an issue i feel really be addressed among us...especially with Canadians who are our neighbors. Don't get me wrong....I love Canada as a whole...actually my sister is a nurse in Toronto and I have some relatives in Vancouver...I visited a few times and I love the place.

I am just pointing out something that you should be careful when saying it....saying "Americans" you are basically stating the whole Ameican Society....=).

And your said your are using the American Invention because the Japanese haven't invented a better one YET? I guess you have a double standard.....you hate the Americans and you use their products? Where is your consistency? I know you love us in a way but you just don't want to admit it.....lol.

Cheers.



[This message has been edited by dcunik (edited 02-12-2001).]