an idea for Konami!

[shez]

i dont know if our ideas of improvement would reach the ppl behind the game (Konami).....but ill tell u guyz what i think would be an improvement....this way we can contribute to the best game ever!

my idea is:

to have a different shooting bar speed depending on each player or the situation he's shooting from...

i was playing fifa2002 and there is the speed power-up bar....it controls the speed of the power bar ( it reaches the limit faster when u put it on maximum )

this gave me an idea that for example shooting with batistuta the shooting bar would be slower cause hes got a great talent...but shooting with silvestre (WORLD'S BIGGEST DONKEY!) would make the bar go fasttttt that its hard to get it in the right time...this would make it more realistic....

what do u think?

 

[the_man]

Nah, I don't think I like the Idea.

 

[MisterX_K]

GREAT!!

what a damn great idea!
also I finally want an ingame editor where I'm able to create as many new players as I want and even create new teams (being able to edit kits) and leagues FROM SCRATCH like FIFA 2002 on PC.
but I think it is still A BIG STEP IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION that KCET enabled us to play at least friendlies with the best european club teams.
in near future WE ALL WANT to play the UEFA CHAMPIONS LEAGUE as a CUSTOM TOURNAMENT and ALSO at least 6 of the best european leagues (Premier League, Serie A, LNF, German Bundesliga, Spanish League & Holland League) so please KONAMI, if you read this, put this in PES 2, PLEASE!

 

[astirling]

Only problem is that it might take too long to fire of a powerful shot if the bar moves slower. Might turn out to be a disadvantage as the defender could nick the ball.

 

[LTJ]

Only problem is that it might take too long to fire of a powerful shot if the bar moves slower. Might turn out to be a disadvantage as the defender could nick the ball.

Exactly. But I do think there's potential in the idea. Maybe the power bar could increase less constantly when you're in a poor position or something. I dunno... definitely an idea worth looking at tho.

 

[the_man]

Originally posted by astirling
Only problem is that it might take too long to fire of a powerful shot if the bar moves slower. Might turn out to be a disadvantage as the defender could nick the ball.

..this is one of the reasons...when i first read it I thought, hmm shouldn't it be faster for better skilled players? But then how do you handle this case...if you hit it maximum for each player (Batistuta and Silvestre as you said in your example) is the shot going to be the same power? Variable rate and variable power on the power bar will throw people off, cos everyone has different power shot attributes, you will have to take into consideration the players stats in order to say okay I have to hold the button down longer for this ball to go far (the game already does this for you, and I don't want to worry about that). Variable rate and same power will be the same case. Same rate and variable power is the way it is now, the power bar moves at the same rate for everyone, the player stats on shot accuracy and shot power determine where the ball wants to go and how fast it will get their. same rate and same power is a lousy concept, no one would like. Everyone would shoot like everyone else.

 

[arthur]

I actually think that the variable power bar idea has some merit. I think the idea of it being faster for the crap strikers is that you are far more likely to hit the ball too high and over the bar, which is realistic.

I must say that I think the more control you give to the actual human player, the better. I 'm not very happy with the way PES is now beacuse the CPU decides when a player who has a poor shooting stat will make a bad shot. It means that the player can be standing in plenty of space with an easy shot at goal but when you hit the shoot button, the CPU decides to make him miss on purpose and blames his poor shooting stat. It's not particularly fair as the CPU can stop you scoring with you being able to do nothing about it.

It would be better if it was actually physically harder for the human player to make the guy shoot properly and having a variable power bar is one idea. I'm sure that there must be other ideas also.

One thing I would like to see is proper analogue control for full 360 degree control (you can use the analgue stick at the moment but it actually seems to work in digital - ie. 8 directions only, which sucks). Proper analogue control would mean you can actually choose exactly which direction(full 360 degrees) the guy should shoot/pass etc, but if the guy has a poor shooting stat, the anaolgue control could be more sensitive when you are controlling that guy so it's harder to shoot exactly in the direction you want.

That way, it is the human who has complete control of the situation and you don't have the CPU messing things up without you being able to do anything about it. It would just harder to control some players than others, which means the human player needs more skill but surely that is the best way.

 

[Han]

Folowing your idea will remove the depht of the game.
It will end up all players shoot equally good, which is not as realistic as it is now.
The point is that in this game a lousy player shoots lousy and a good player shoots good, so you have to take measures in the line-up. You have to be a good manager to take all attributes in account, that's the fun of it!

 

[the_man]

We are now entering the grey area of when the CPU should help and when it shouldn't. I just don't like the idea that I have to worry about the speed of the power bar for every player I play with...i mean I already worry about player balance, player response, shot power/accuracy, confidence on the day, surrounding defenders and whether they are sliding in...and then ofcourse myself, the direction and where to get the power bar up to get a good shot. With the difficulty in timing as it is, a variable power bar is a major timing aspect...I just don't like it.

Ofcourse my word is not Law, so the fact that I don't like it doesn't mean that Konami might think it is a good idea. If they put it in their game, I'll have to live with it.

 

[arthur]

hmmm, are you really conciously thinking about a players balance and response attributes when you are lining up a shot?? I'm sure you don't have time to think about those things...shooting becomes instinctive.

I think that when it comes to strikers, you generally get to know if they are basically any good or not. If they are not very good, I would prefer to have to be more skillful with the joypad to make them play/shoot better rather than simply have the CPU decide to make them play like shit whenever I may be about to score a late winning goal.

I think I'd get used to a variable power bar very quickly and a truely analogue control for direction. The game has a fairly complex control system as it is but you soon pick everything up and it becomes second nature. It takes practise. But I would prefer to have poorer players made more difficult to control (just like players with low speed attributes run slower on the pitch) and therefore you really need to practise hard and be very skillful with the joypad to get the best out of crap players. It would also be more rewarding if you become an expert at the game, and I mean real expert controlling even the crap players, but can still make a poor team play well and not have the CPU deliberately mess up easy shots and passes.

So controlling shots and passes from Figo would be easy but controlling shots and passes from Gary Neville would be much more difficult, but with practise and skill, you could actually make Neville play well.

If nothing else, Konami could always look at implementing these ideas but give the option that you can use the existing method if you want. I think games developers need to give more options to players in general to allow more people to get exactly what they want out of a game.

Personally, I think the more that I can get away from the CPU deciding things for me, the better. Put the human players in control.

 

[the_man]

Originally posted by arthur
hmmm, are you really conciously thinking about a players balance and response attributes when you are lining up a shot?? I'm sure you don't have time to think about those things...shooting becomes instinctive.

So controlling shots and passes from Figo would be easy but controlling shots and passes from Gary Neville would be much more difficult, but with practise and skill, you could actually make Neville play well.

Personally, I think the more that I can get away from the CPU deciding things for me, the better. Put the human players in control.

balance, yes, response, no. Fair enough, shooting does become instinctive, no matter how it is implemented...

Hmm, Neville play well.... On a more serious note, I like the way it is right now, if you get the power bar about 5/8th's full with Figo, he is likely to give the keeper trouble...if you do the same with Neville, the keeper is likely to sigh, while saving his shot. I like the idea that Neville when he is "up" for a match and he gets a chance he can threaten goal...but that will be very rare (just like in real life) I don't like the idea that after practicing with Neville for a while, you can actually make him a threat on distance shots.

Yeah more control can be transfered from the CPU to the gamer...I like the real 360 passing...even tho i don't use analog, it's really difficult IMHO (plus i'm coming from FIFA, i'm use to the 8 direction dpad).

 

[arthur]

haha, maybe saying that we should be able to make Neville play well is going a bit too far .

but I think that this is an interesting thread. There are actually many areas of the game which I think can be improved, some more subtle than others.

I was surprised and disappointed that PES is still not truely analogue, it just doesn't feel wuite right having the silky, sophisticated play but you can still only move in 8 directions.

The right analogue stick for passing is a great idea but it again is not as good as it should be because it doesn't work in a truely analogue way - the ball still only goes in one of 8 directions or to a player like a normal "x" pass. And it is too sensitive - very hard to play very soft passes - it would be better if you could configure the sensitivity.

As mentioned in the other thread, I think free-kicks can be vastly improved and made much more flexible giving a much greater variety of options instead of just shoot or pass. I think you should be able to set up complex routines in the training ground and then save them like you can save a tactic and then use them in the game. So you can decide how many men are around the ball and do dummies, lay-offs and complex free-kick routines.

Penalties are also poor - I got my first penalty today and as I was reaching for the manual just to double check the controls for taking the penalty, the game decided I had taken too long and took the kick on my behalf and I scored without pressing a key and with my back turned - this is not good.

Also, I would like to decide how to defend free-kicks, The CPU decides how many men should be in my wall and which players are in the wall and where the wall stands, etc. I would prefer to make my own decision so that I can put my tallest guys in the wall and decide if I want a 6-man or a 2-man wall.

Again, you could pehaps be pre-select maybe 4 free-kick tactics before the match and you then select which "defend-free-kick tactic" you want to use, depending upon the situation.

 

[the_man]

Originally posted by arthur
Penalties are also poor - I got my first penalty today and as I was reaching for the manual just to double check the controls for taking the penalty, the game decided I had taken too long and took the kick on my behalf and I scored without pressing a key and with my back turned - this is not good.

Haha, is that why they are poor. I haven't really experimented much with Penalties but my experience with them has been good. That pause menu is really dandy when you want to leave the game for a second, heh, this was funny. I hope i'm laughing with you not at you.