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Originally posted by zagga
The biggest flaw with PES is that the cpu basically decides everything. It's not based on objective laws of physics. The whole thing is just a huge AI script with some input from the human player. At times you can almost see the lines of computer code in operation as the AI engine conveniently arranges things to fall in a certain manner, no matter how improbable and physics-defying.
I long for the day when they have an AI model built around a genuine and unprejudiced physics model.
Originally posted by Simmers
No, I think zagga's right. A few examples:
The difference between playing games at home or away is só big, it's unbelievable. At home, your players move about twice as fast, win twice as many duels and get a free kick when they fall. Playing away, let's just say winning becomes 5-10x harder, no matter how weak the team you play against is. And this feels scripted. The referee is simply a homie. And some penalty kicks given are just ridiculous.
And how about through passes. If the CPU tries a high through pass, it always connects. It seems my defenders are too lazy to react.
And as a reaction to Janer: no, the game doesn't reward you when you get better. You can pound a team the entire match and still manage to lose because of stupid goals that feel scripted.
Anyway, I'm still quite addicted to the game and will now return to my season with Arsenal on 6 stars.
Originally posted by zagga
I've been playing the game since ISS Pro Evo 2, about 4 or 5 years. I'm not experiencing a "problem", as you put it. After years of playing the game, I have gotten to know the methods and tricks that Konami employ, so have learned how to counter them. I still get much enjoyment out of the battle of my skills against the computer scripts.
I am merely making an observation. To me, it is obvious that the physics model is not a true physics model but a subjective psuedo-physics model. The game is essentially a bunch of numbers being fed into an AI engine and it is clear that at times, these numbers are adjusted in order to engineer certain situations, rather than have a genuinely free and open game.
Originally posted by Nuno79
Please take no offence. I'm just disputing your claims.
Originally posted by simakperrce
But you didn't get them in the first place, did you?
For you fanboys it's always that people who complain are complaining because they can't win. Then you always tell us those stories about how cool you are and how you beat Manchester 6-0 on level 6 and that it's all about "practicing", dude.... man, you are way cool i have to say...
BUT IT IS NOT ABOUT WHINNING OR NOT. I win this game most of the times. level 5. If i don't win i draw. So what? I still stopped playing it, because of all the reasons zagga mentioned.
There is too much CPU interference, too many scripted situations, too many fishy moments disguised as "suprises" and "captivating moments". It's a gigantic pseudo thing which tries to trick you into believing that it's all free and realistic, where in reality it is not. and even if you win, it doesn't feel like you achieved it, but more like you were granted a win.
No thanks.
Konami need to revamp the A.I and stop using dirty tricks (on both the CPU and the player's side). then maybe i'll pick it up again.
for those undecided: this is my opinion. you still might prefer it over FIFA. so try it out. i am just tired of stupid unadultered fanboism...
Originally posted by stonecoldkiller
I thought id better put my opinion in...
Ive played PES since its first incarnation in ISS on the SNES, and then on to the playstation. Every year it has got better but i do feel this year they took a backwards step IN SOME departments.
The game is definetly more action/ attck based and while i thrive on it i feel defensivley the game has gone backwards. PES3 i was defensive god. i could rely on CPU controlled palyers doing their bit. PES4 my mates have carved through passes from their own half and my defenders have let one-on-ones happen. The CPU defence is worse IN MY OPINION. I feel i have less control over the defence as a unit. Attack excellent, like the dribbling. Early days it was impossible to get past players. I do feel konami are moving more towards the old ISS on the N64, the now new ISS branch off. Also i have, and been victim of bery bad goalie AI in PES4. many shots the keeper has been rooted from 25/30 yards and watched the ball curl in withour blinking an eylid. This does however not stop my enjoyment of the greatest footie game on the planet. It cant be perfect, or FIFA wouldnt even be around to mount a challange to the more kiddie/arcadey kind of footie fan (meant with respect and not inciting a PES v FIFA debate).
Originally posted by zagga
Nuno,
I will not try to argue with you. We are both fans of this great game after all. We just have some differences of opinion.
I do agree with you that there are games where you are in a better frame of mind and jut see things in the match that result in a chance or a goal that you might not have seen in another day when you are not "in the zone". The game is full of beautiful moments. And even now, after all these years of playing, I still get excited when I score, even when I score that 6th goal in a easy 6-0 win . It brings much joy and I would not wish to be without this game.
The game has it downsides, it's black moments of evil some of us find hard to ignore whilst others either don't notice or choose to ignore. But they are definitely there. I might have doubts of their existence if nobody else mentioned them, but because so many of us independently notice these nasty little cpu ploys, they clearly do exist.
And to the guy considering whether or not to buy the game, I would say without hesitation to do so. You will find much to admire.
Originally posted by stonecoldkiller
I gotta agree with nuno on this. All games are different, and variety is the key. Every game feels unique, as does every goal. I feel the game is way easier then PES3 though, and think maybe this is due to worse AI on the defence side. Maybe Konami are trying to attract more followers, as i know several people who were intimated by the skill required by the old games, the old ''you play on 5 stars, im only on 3!!''. I do win games easier then before but then enjoy doing a world cup with say, iran or someone for the challenge. I think that PES4 is the more mature gamers choice, with the less passionate and hardcore being enticed by FIFAs smart-packaging, poor-product approach.
Originally posted by Nuno79
Now you make more sense. While these other guys are talking as if the game is horribly cheating them. The goalie f's up sometimes(rarely for me). It's a game sh*t happens. As for the crappier defence, I think we can attribute that to better through balls. Through balls in WE7 were awfull. Through balls do exactly what I ask them to do in WE8 which makes it easier to score sometimes. However I do believe the defence is still solid.
Originally posted by stonecoldkiller
PES series can only get better and im sure ill be there next season with my debit card!